---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  AHA Elections (Ant Hayes)
  RE: HSA problem built in to RIMS? ("Stephen Alexander")
  (no subject) (Prestoniam)
  Australian Fags, cap labels (Dave Burley)
  how much patience do you have? ("patrick finerty jr.")
  re: Request for CAP thoughts (Bill.X.Wible)
  AHA Membership (Bill.X.Wible)
  Manifold-racking cane combo (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  Stainless passivation ("John Palmer")
  Re: Zymurgy & AHA (Matthew Arnold)
  Kiltlifter Ale (AKGOURMET)
  Re: custom bottle caps (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Request for CAP  thoughts (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Upsetting People And Repaying Friends (Jeff Renner)
  Mac & Jack's African Amber ("barry fischer")
  New Belgium ("St. Patrick's")
  Gott cooler problems... (GPEYCO)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:37:03 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: AHA Elections

phil sides jr <psides at technologist.com> wrote, "but I really do not
understand
why EVERYONE reading the HBD is not an AHA member."

Living in South Africa, I read the to-ing and fro-ing around the AHA with
some bemusement. I am an AHA member, admittedly for Zymurgy. If I lived in
the US there is no way that I would not be a member.

The US homebrewers have an association that is the envy of the rest of the
world (imo), certainly of homebrewers out here in SA. 

Ant Hayes


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:11:04 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: HSA problem built in to RIMS?

Well, since none of the Pivovites took a pass at it ...
Paul Schick asks ...

>[...] beers aren't lasting quite as long [...] the darker beers
>are showing signs of problems with hot-side aeration:  a
>loss of malt "presence" after a few months, sherry tones
[...hardware description ...]

The sherry tones are likely aldehydes - a product of late oxidation of
alcohols.  The "dumbing" of the malt flavors is a common one too - tho' I
don't know the exact cause.

>Yes, I know that we homebrewers tend to think that the
>surface of a mash is protected by a layer of steam, but ...

You are right - that's a momily.  A CO2 blanket or a steam stream is very
poor protection.  The fact that at mash temps wort only holds a few ppm of
oxygen, yet 50 to 200 ppm of O2 per wort volume is reacted in the mash &
boil tells a story. There are extremely strong enzymatic processes using the
oxygen in the mash.They deplete the wort of O2 below it's nominal
equilibrium value and so the O2 diffuses in actively. The wort circulation
and air surface area helps this process substantially as you surmise.

>Unfortunately, HSA symptoms take quite a while to develop
Right - I think Pivo proved he couldn't get any discernible HSA at 6 weeks,
which pretty much matches my experience. 12 weeks and often more are
typical.

I too have noticed more of an effect when dark malts are more prevalent.
The melanoidins catalyze some of the later oxidation state transfers and can
be a big problem - Kunze mentions the effect of dark malts on aging and the
requirement for careful handling too.

>So I guess I'm worried that this problem is inherent to _any_
>RIMS approach,
 ...
>Can you think of a RIMS
>(or "semi-RIMS") design that avoids this source of HSA?

You could float a 'cap' on top of the tun reducing the surface area to
volume ratio substantially.  I don't think this problem is specifically RIMS
related, but rather circulation of wort with high surface to volume ratio
problem is the problem.  Reducing the mash surface air ratio *may* provide a
solution.

Steve




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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:41:47 EDT
From: Prestoniam at aol.com
Subject: (no subject)

I'M KIND OF TIRED OF USING BOTTLES AND WANT TO CHANGE OVER TO 5 GAL KEGS. CAN 
SOME OF YOU PRIVATELY EMAIL WITH PRETTY COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS? 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:11:03 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Australian Fags, cap labels

Brewsters:

Phil Yates says by way of providing local color at the pubs in Australia:

"> strategically placed shelves so one can rest one's beer and have a fag
while chatting at the trough"

Phil Sides says: "Wow the visual I'm getting..... I don't even want to get
on that train"

Phil Sides would perhaps be less amazed if he remembered that a "fag" in
Australia is a cigarette and not some guy with a different appreciation of
men.  {8^)
- -----------------------------------
As far as printing bottle caps, when I was bottling exclusively, I used the
circular Avery peel off sticky labels of various colors to represent a
general class of beer, red was ale, blue was ESB's and  higher OGs and
green was lager, if memory serves. I wrote the date plus a code so I would
know and if needed could find it in my notebook. The color code was easy to
spot by looking into the case from the top.

With the advent of the computer, color printer and color copiers it should
be possible to make a very fancy cap label by printing or copying in color
onto a white or colored  circular Avery label. A large label could be
designed and reduced and multiply color copied to get a full sheet which
would be the master for future batches. Using a scanner and some of the
commonly available paint programs, it may be possible to obviate a visit to
the copier and just print when needed.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:21:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: how much patience do you have?

hi folks,

it's been a little while since i posted an actual question to this
forum. here's something that i've been thinking about since Sat night.

that evening, i opened a bottle of a Full Sail Amber Ale clone i had
made in November or something. the beer was wonderful and extremely
bright and clear. at the time, it was my second all grain batch (this
year i've already brewed six 10 gal batches).

however, one phenomena that really annoys me is the lack of brightness
and clarity in my beers. however, it frequently seems to be the case
that by the time i'm finishing off a batch, the beer coming out of the
keg is quite clear.

i usually remember to add Irish moss ~10-15 min before the end of the
boil but don't use any finings (there's no way i'm adding anything
synthetic like polyclar(sp) and since i'm a vegetarian, isinglass is
right out).

so, i'm curious how long people actually wait to serve their beer.
here's my usual schedule:

  primary for 1 week (unless it's not done)
secondary for 2 weeks
keg, chill, and force carbonate.
drink in a day or two.

is this too short a schedule? the flavor and clarity of my beers do
change from the time i start drinking them to the end of the batch but
it's not like they taste *bad* or anything when i start drinking them.

Slante!

patrick in toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:16:20 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: re: Request for CAP thoughts




>From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
>Subject: Request for CAP  thoughts
>
>Brewers
>
>I am writing an article on pre-pro lager/Classic American Pilsner for the
>upcoming special Zymurgy issue, and solicit your thoughts on this great
>style.  Brewing experience, judging experience (both as entrant and judge),
>thoughts on the style, your non-homebrewing (and maybe standard comerical
>beer drinking) friends' reactions when they've had it, anything else you
>think I meigh like to hear about.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jeff

I remember seeing two previous articles of interest on this, and I think both
were in BT.   One was called "Reviving the Classic American Pilsener - A
Shamefully Neglected Style."  I think the other was "The Bushwick Pilseners
 - A look at hoppier Days".   At least one of these is by George Fix.  You can
still find both by searching realbeer.com's library.

History of the style goes way back, but the most recent versions were made
in the Buschwick section of New York, and a couple of the names were
Schaefer (believe ot or not) and Trommer's.  I'm sure the Schaefer beer we
get now is not the same.  As far as I know, nobody brews a commercial
CAP now.  I think they said the last one went under around 1974.

The style includes a healthy amount of corn as an adjunct, and so the grain
bill also includes mostly 6 row barley. The original gravity and bitterness
should both be higher than the american premium lager, (not saying much)
though the grain bills will appear similar.  OG can go up to around 1.065.
Hops should be classic american - Cluster for bitter, and I read that Schaefer
and Trommer's also used a small amount of Styrian Goldings for flavor.  I
think I read somewhere that the proper yeast selection for this style is Wyeast
2035, which is the 'New Ulm' yeast.

I tried brewing one of these once.  It was a decent, drinkable beer, scored
a 38 in an AHA sanctioned competition.  My biggest hit was sweetness,
like it didn't ferment down enough.  Being my second attempt at lager,
I'm sure I didn't ferment it correctly.  But I was still happy with the beer.
Maybe I'll  try making it again.

I like reading about and trying to re-create these obscure styles that
nobody makes anymore.  I'd like to see somebody commercially produce
a CAP again.  I think Miller is trying to say that Miller Lite is a CAP, or
would lead us to believe that with their slogan "Taste a True American
Pilsener", but IMHO this is BS.  Miller Lite is not a CAP.

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:17:54 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: AHA Membership




>From: phil sides jr <psides at technologist.com>
>Subject: Re: AHA Elections
>
>Matthew Arnold <revmra at iname.com> wrote:
>
>>plaid-girded Skotrat can't do it, no one can. I'm not an AHA member
>currently,
>
>Then you need not have an opinion as to who gets elected.
>
>I don't mean to single you out Matthew, but I really do not understand
>why EVERYONE reading the HBD is not an AHA member.  Has the AHA done
>anything to hurt homebrewing?  Or have they done anything to hurt you
>personally?  They may not be everything everyone wants them to be, but
>on balance, I can't help but think they only help our cause.
>
>Just my opinion...
>
>Phil Sides Jr.
>Concord, NH

I am an AHA member, but can understand why people might not want to be.

First, you have to pay around $30 a year to be a member.  For that, you get
6 issues of Zymurgy Magazine.  What else do you get?  When people pay
a membership to join a club, it's not a question of what the club ever did
to hurt them, but a question of what are the benefits.  For most of us, the
AHA is little more than a magazine subscription.  And a large part of your
money goes to pay a large salary to Charlie Papazian, so he can tour the
world and drink beer on your dime.  I know alot of people have a problem
with that.

The AHA has also done things that were harmful to Homebrew stores, though
probably not intentionally.  The most recent incident was dumping thousands
of style series books to national bookstore chains at cost, undercutting the
homebrew stores they previously sold them to at markup.  The national chains
were thus able to sell these books for around $3.99 while the homebrew stores
had to sell them for about $7.99.  Most homebrew stores wound up eating
these books.  My local shop owner still hasn't forgiven them and wants
nothing to do with the AHA over that.

There are a couple of other minor issues, like passing on photocopied versions
of Zymurgy when you order back issues, and without warning.

But for the most part, the AHA hasn't done anything to offend me.  And I
think they are taking some steps in the right direction with Ray Daniels.
I'm taking a 'wait and see' attitude.  For now, I'm a member.

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Manifold-racking cane combo

Howdy,

	I have an excess of copper tubing after making my immersion chiller,
and with a brew in hand I began to ponder what to do with it.  I thought that
I could put a circle of tubing around the bottom edge of my mash tun and
kettle as a manifold, and rather than punching a whole in my kettle or tun, I
would bend the tubing 90 degrees up and out of the kettle or tun.  I plan to
attach a piece of plastic tubing to the outlet for transfer to the kettle and
fermenter.

	This would allow me to directly fire my mash and would provide
a convenient way to sterilize the racking cane for transfer to the fermenter
after the boil.  Before I rashly blow my tubing (and make Mr. Garvin very 
envious...), I would like a bit of advice:

1)  Has anyone tried this?  Any suggestions?

2)  Any suggestions on blade type and width for slotting the copper?  Should I
use the same size for the mash tun and kettle (mostly whole hops)?  I assume
it would be better to slot the bottom, though I could always bend it around to
the top.

3) I figured on one circle along the edge for the kettle manifold, and a
planar swirl for the mash tun.  I believe my tubing is 3/8" ID.  Any thoughts
on this geometry?

4)  How careful should I be when doing direct fire temperature boosts in the
mash tun?  My obvious fear is that my pale ales will turn into porters.  I
have propane ring burner that has a fine adjustable input (max probably 30K),
but I don't want to have to wait all day to boost from protein rest to mid
sacch temps.

	Thanks in advance for your help.


Mike Maceyka
Four Square Brewing
Takoma Park, MD




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:33:14 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Stainless passivation

Passivating Stainless Steel
A situation that often comes up is, "Hey, my stainless steel is
rusting! Why? What can I do to fix it?"

Stainless steel is stainless because of the protective chromium oxides
on the surface. If those oxides are removed by scouring, or by
reaction with bleach, then the iron in the steel is exposed and can be
rusted. Stainless steel is also vulnerable to contamination by plain
carbon steel, the kind found in tools, food cans, and steel wool. This
non-stainless steel tends to rub off on the surface (due to
iron-to-iron affinity), and readily rusts. Once rust has breached the
chromium oxides, the iron in the stainless steel can also rust. Fixing
this condition calls for re-passivation.

Passivating stainless steel is normally accomplished in industry by
dipping the part in a bath of nitric acid. Nitric acid dissolves any
free iron or other contaminants from the surface, which cleans the
metal, and it re-oxidizes the chromium; all in about 20 minutes. But
you don't need a nitric acid bath to passivate. The key is to clean
the stainless steel to bare metal. Once the metal is clean (and dry),
the oxygen in the atmosphere will form the protective chromium oxides.
The steel will be every bit as passivated as that which was dipped in
acid. The only catch is that it takes longer-- about a week or two.

To passivate stainless steel at home without using a nitric acid bath,
you need to clean the surface of all dirt, oils and oxides. The best
way to do this is to use an oxalic acid based cleanser like Bar
Keepers Friend, RevereWare Cleanser, or Kleen King, and a non-metallic
green scrubby pad. Don't use steel wool, or any metal pad, even
stainless steel, because this will actually promote rust. Scour the
surface thoroughly and then rinse and dry it with a towel. Leave it
alone for a week or two and it will re-passivate itself. You should
not have to do this procedure more than once, but it can be repeated
as often as necessary.

John Palmer
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/



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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:23:48 -0500
From: Matthew Arnold <revmra at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Zymurgy & AHA

Thus spake Dean Fikar:
>I can assure you that Ray is quite involved in the article selection process
>and actively edits articles.  He recently asked me to write an article for
>an upcoming Zymurgy on warm weather brewing which I was honored to do.  He
>picked the topic, gave me a rough outline of topics he would like to see
>covered, and generally coached me through the whole process.  Through the
>miracle of email we passed info & edits back and forth a couple of times and
>within one day of my rough draft he had edited it to my satisfaction and we
>were done.  I personally am pumped about Zymurgy and the direction it is
>headed with Ray at the helm.

Then chimed in Jeff Renner:
>PS - For Matt Arnold - I've been communicating with Ray Daniels on this,
>which makes me feel he's really the one with the hand on the tiller.

Finally Fred Scheer added some personal editorial experience:
>As a former longtime Editorial Advisor to THE NEW BREWER
>magazine (at that time Virginia Thomas was the Editor), I can assure
>you that I was never handet an article with any comments as to
>what to do.

This is what I was really hoping to hear. With the demise of BT, homebrewing
really needs a strong Zymurgy. A strong Zymurgy would be enough, in and of
itself, for someone to consider becoming an AHA member. Thank you, gentlemen,
for your responses.

- -----

Phil Sides, Jr., made a legitimate comment regarding my post on the AHA BoA
elections:
>>plaid-girded Skotrat can't do it, no one can. I'm not an AHA member
>>currently,
>
>Then you need not have an opinion as to who gets elected.

I responded more fully offline and I think that's the best place to keep it. I
will simply add the rest of my comment which he didn't quote,
>>but if Skotrat is elected I will definitely be reconsidering that.

So while it is true that I really have no voice in the AHA elections because I
am not a member, I'm certain that many non-AHA-members are watching this
election with great interest to gauge where the organization is heading. I will
say that I was very happy to see so many long-time HBD contributors on the
slate of candidates. I understand the votes must be in by today. It will be
interesting to see who wins . . .

- -----

OK, enough of that. I've got some brewing to do! I'm going to whip up a batch
of AlK Altbier today to take advantage of our recent cold snap up here in
Northern Wisconsin. When I rack that to the secondary, I intend on brewing up
another batch of barleywine and adding it to the Alt's yeast cake. Kaboom!

Also, I keep hearing about people liking lighter lagers when it is hot out. Am
I the only one who enjoys a nice draft Guinness or an IPA on a hot day?

Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org        info at rackers.org


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:14:19 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: Kiltlifter Ale

I've had some requests for the recipe for Kilt-Lifter Wee Heavy, so here it 
is from the March issue of Brew Your Own magazine.

10 Gallon batch

30 lbs.  Belgian Pils malt
2 lbs. British Crystal, 40L
1 lb.  Dewulf-Cosyns Special B
2 lbs.  DeWulf-Cosyns CaraVienne 
 .75 oz. Perle pellets, 8%AA, 60 minutes
1.0 oz. Perle pellets, 8% AA, 30 minutes
1.0 oz. Hallertauer pellets, 4%AA, 30 minutes
1.0 oz. Hallertauer pellets, 4%AA, 5 minutes
2 Tbsp. Irish Moss
Wyeast 1968 London ESB ale yeast
2/3 cup corn sugar for priming

Mash at 155F for 60-90 minutes.
Total boil is 60 minutes.

OG 1.081
FG 1.018
bitterness 36 IBUs

In the magazine, there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list and the 
instructions regarding the Hallertauer hop additions.  The list says to add 1 
oz. at 60 minutes and 1 oz. at 30 minutes, same as the Perle.  The 
instructions say 1 oz. at 30 minutes and 1 oz. at 5 minutes.  I haven't 
tasted the commercial version, but I suspect that the 30 and 5 minute 
additions are correct so that's what I listed above.

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska
www.gourmetalaska.com


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:19:08 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: custom bottle caps

"Jimmy Hughes" <inspector at bmd.clis.com> wrote:
>"Jimmy Hughes" <inspector at bmd.clis.com>
>Subject: custom bottle caps
>
>How about buying some of the 3/4" round labels and printing on them, then
>apply to the cap?
>Haven't thought about it until now, but will probably buy some this
>afternoon.
>I will let you know how it works out.

This is a great method that I first saw used by Ed Lustenader of Ann Arbor
Brewers Guild about three years ago.  At that time I made his little Excel
file available to HBDers and will do so again, but I will see if we can get
it posted to a web site so I don't have to send it out repeatedly.  It has
six lines, but I'm sure that someone with fancier software could make wrap
around print, etc.  I like it for my occasional bottlings because they're
labeled but I don't have to soak a label off the bottle.  Once it's opened,
it's gone.

It works with Avery R1212 3/4" round labels 05408.  Since my printer won't
feed the 4"x6.5" sheets, I print it on a stsandard sheet of paper, then
tape the sheet of labels over that, positioning it by holding it up to the
light.

If anyone wants this file, email me.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:25:07 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for CAP  thoughts

I wrote:

>I am writing an article on pre-pro lager/Classic American Pilsner for the
>upcoming special Zymurgy issue, and solicit your thoughts on this great
>style.

One more thing - if anyone know of any commercial examples, please let me
know.  For the purpose of definition, this means a pilsner style lager with
corn or rice adjunct, gravity at least 11P (1.044), hots at least, what,
20-25 IBU.  I know I've previously written minimum of 20 IBU, but this is
pretty low.

Thanks for the replies I've already gotten.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:05:26 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Upsetting People And Repaying Friends

"Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> writes of Ayinger yeast?
>
>A tiny little sample was sent to me in a tiny little vial of sterile water.
>All the way from the USA, compliments of The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n
>Salty

There are, I believe, several breweries in Aying, and I don't know which
(if any) this came from, but I suspect that this yeast is the same that Dan
McConnell got from a German in the brewing industry, and which he sells via
YCKC and generously distributes here in Ann Arbor.  We'd have to ask The
Artist to be sure.  But it is my favorite lager yeast, and the favorite of
many others.  I know that when I've mentioned it before on HBD it has
generated interest and orders for Dan, who gives me a large kickback from
each $3.50 slant he sells.

Shortly after Dan got this, maybe 3-4 years ago, our local ale and lager
brewing brewpub (the other one is all ale) was unhappy with its lager
yeast, so they fermented six one gallon jugs of pilsner wort with six
different yeasts, all at 50F (15C) and then lagered them at the same temp,
as that is the way they lager their production beer.  I was on the taste
panel.  The Ayinger stood out in everyone's notes, and I thought it was
head and shoulders above the others.  It's been my standard since.

Regarding off topic posts - my feeling is that we are a (virtual)
community, and strictly beer would be pretty dry, so to speak.  Especially
when there is no queue, I welcome a bit of good natured "conversation."  As
has often been posted, don't forget the pg dn key.  We need to be
especially tolerant of Phil - who knows, after the skunk oil, we may be his
*only* community.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:02:55 PDT
From: "barry fischer" <dragonbf at hotmail.com>
Subject: Mac & Jack's African Amber

Nathan - About a year ago I also tasted Mac & Jack's and liked it.  However, 
since I live in the area I called them and spoke with the brewer.  I told 
him how much I liked it and that I was a homebrewer and wanted to try and 
make a similar style beer.  He told me that he used two row barley, 
Munich,and Crystal 50L for grains.  He also said he used Cascade and Crystal 
Hops.  The SG 1.068 and color 16-18L.  I put together a 5 gal extract batch 
using 7 lbs of Lt Malt Extract, 1 lb of Munich, 1 lb of Crystal 50L, 1 lb of 
Pale ale and .5 lb of wheat.  Then I used 2 oz of cascade for 60 min; 0.5 oz 
Crystal for 15 min and 0.5 Crystal for 5 min. A friend who also likes Mac & 
Jacks said this was real close.  I liked it and it was published in a local 
Brewshops recipe of the month.  I hope this gets you started.  I have found 
the local brewers very willing to share their information.
Keep on Brewing,
A fellow HomeBrewer - Barry Fischer
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:08:42 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: New Belgium

Nothing slides by on the digest. After my post about the beer and brewer at
New Belgium, I received the following email.

>Lynne,
>I got the impression you did not remember his name...
>
>I think you are referring to Peter Bouckaert.  I attended a panel
>discussion at the Craft Brewer's Conference in Milwaukee where he was on
>the panel.  He is an impressive brewer!  I thought you might want to
>give him the credit he is due...
>
>Phil Sides Jr.
>Concord, NH

Phil could not be more right.  Frankly I couldn't remember Peter's last
name and was too lazy to go look in my notes.

Peter Bouckaert is the brewer at New Belgium.  He is Belgian and brewed at
Rodenbach before 1996.  I had the pleasure of sitting thru Michael
Jackson's interview of him, and then we (MJ, Joey Villareal, my husband and
I) spent another hour+ with him---so long that we were quite late for the
next event.  To say Peter is an impressive brewer is an understatement.
He is also very likeable--soft spoken, modest (no business card) and quick
to laugh.  Oud Bruin Folie is a blend of beers, some pitched with
brettanomyces, some with pediococcus, some aged in oak from Napa, some from
Tennessee;
after numerous bottle conditioning tries he settled on a champagne yeast.
This is a great beer by any standard and if you have the chance, get it.
again, it's available only at the brewery and there's only 3500 bottles.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Drive
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
512-989-8982 fax
www.stpats.com







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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:42:28 EDT
From: GPEYCO at cs.com
Subject: Gott cooler problems...

Friends, Rimsers and countrymen

    I've been working on a rims system on and off for a bout 6 months now. I 
mail ordered a 10 gallon gott cooler to do mashing in, which after receiving 
I promptly put away in the closet.  Months later I've returned to finishing 
the project and am horrified at what I'm seeing. A stainless steel false 
bottom from Stainless in Seattle has come in and I can't get the thing into 
the cooler with anything less than a violent pounding. It seems the sides of 
the cooler are not straight, with bulges in multiple locations. Once in the 
bottom of the cooler (after scraping h*** out of the sides) I find that the 
cooler isn't even round, more like slightly oval. I assume, but haven't 
proven, that the false bottom is round.
My questions for the group are as follows:

1)  Is this sort of construction typical in all gott coolers? 
2)  Is there anything I can do about it to get the bulges smoothed out?
3)  What is a typical gap that one can live with between the edge of the 
false bottom and the cooler surface.
4)  This question should be worth a cheap giggle. Where in the North San 
Diego County (or even nearby) can I find these coolers? I figure if I take 
the false bottom with me for sizing I should be able to locate at least one 
that will fit. I've blown the gas budget for this month looking.

In other related areas I've also been wondering:
1)  Is there an ideal depth between the false bottom and the cooler bottom. 
I'm still playing with the idea of where to place the runoff tube. This might 
sound like a silly question but I routinely manufacture my own parts.

I hope that some adventurous types will give me a hand with this because 
building this project has been a PITA so far.

Fortunately I've been blessed with ungodly amount of patience (and great 
advice from friends).

Thanks in advance. 
Greg


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