---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  zymurgy (Warandle1)
  Zymurgy Mead Issue ("Hominid")
  Bar Fridges (Graham Sanders)
  Re: suck, blow, swallo...whoops (Steve Lacey)
  To suck or not to suck, that is my question. (Lance Levsen)
  mead and cider as beer?!? (Dick Dunn)
  to suck or not.... ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  fridge troubleshooting (fridgeguy)
  Siphon Starting (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  Re: RIMS O2 Insulation ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question. ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Imposters and carboy caps ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Cheesemaker's Digest? (Bill.X.Wible)
  RIMS HSA, Suck or Blow? (Dave Burley)
  Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question. ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Re: marris otter (Jeff Renner)
  Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question. (Jeff Renner)
  For Sale: 80 qt. Stainless Brewpot (Art Tyszka)
  Stainless in Seattle ("Vernon, Mark")
  Bavarian Helles ("joanne")
  CIDER/MEADE (Booth)
  mold/mildew & moisture ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Wort on My Balls (Brad Miller)
  Yeast Propagation and Grain/Water Ratio Questions (David Sweeney)
  Phloating Balls (Dan Listermann)
  Re: new board (Jim Liddil)
  Starting a siphon (Bill.X.Wible)
  CIDER/MEADE (Booth)
  worldbeertour.com (Booth)
  Trolls and tribulations ("Brian Lundeen")
  REMINDER - SoFB Entries now being accepted (Marler Stephen)
  exploding bottles!!! (Jim Adwell)
  Glyco proteins questions ("Michael Rose")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:02:27 EDT
From: Warandle1 at aol.com
Subject: zymurgy

Hi all,

Thought I might share my thoughts regarding Zymurgy.  Someone has already 
posted AHA's mission statement and from it, it would seem the AHA is 
basically about beer or at least you would think that from reading the 
mission statement.  I have only been a member of AHA now for a few months and 
have recieved just two issues of Zymurgy thus far.  In a way I have been 
disappointed in that there have not been a lot of practical articles in how 
to make better beer or on increasing one's knowledge of the homebrewing 
process (I guess that is what the HBD is for!).  I don't consider myself a 
beginner anymore but I don't think of myself as an expert either. 

I don't make mead or wine and probably don't care to; I generally don't care 
for honey-flavored beers.  As you can guess I have not been real thrilled by 
my first two issues of Zymurgy.

But am I upset about it?  Do I wish I could get my money back? NO and NO.  I 
feel that for Zymurgy to exist (which is probably the reason most people join 
AHA) the magazine must appeal to a wide audience of zymurgists--be it from 
grain, grape or honey.  Some portion of beer-makers make mead or wine as 
well.  As a result the magazine must show a little diversity.  So if an 
article or most of a particular issue is devouted to mead, I don't get 
heartburn over it. (If issue after issue is devouted to it, then I have a 
problem)  Same with wine.  Perhaps one day I will want to make mead or 
wine--then I will have references to help me.

So I wait for the next issue--hoping for more beer stuff, you know--hops, 
yeast, grain, equipment, technique, chemistry.
____________
I should also mention that at the behest of a lot of *posters* to HBD and 
some stuff I picked up at MCAB II, I made a beer with an appropriate amount 
of yeast.  I used several cups of yeast slurry from a previous batch as 
opposed to my single liquid yeast smak-pack.  The result--the best single 
beer (a Bock) by far that I have made.  No comparison.  Odd thing is I 
thought I was making pretty good beer before (about 13 batches).  I am now a 
devouted yeast-starter-man.  Thank you.

Will Randle
Carpe Bierum Homebrewer's Club
Ashland, MO



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Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:51:30 -0700
From: "Hominid" <Joel at Donelson.com>
Subject: Zymurgy Mead Issue

I second 'J. Doug Brown', if you don't want your Zymurgy mead issue, please
let me know, I'll buy it.

Thanks!
 -Joel



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:46:35 +1000
From: Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Bar Fridges


>Where I'm from, a bar fridge is larger (usually taller) than a dorm
>fridge. Dorm fridges are too small to really be useful in a bar. And I
>thought everything in Australia was even bigger than in the US. I would
>have thought a full size US fridge was a dorm (oops, sorry, bar) fridge
>"down under".

>Jonathan (In an obnoxious mood) Peakall


Too right you are Jonathan. Our bar fridges just hold the soft drinks,
nothing more.  We all have the big buggers out back, full of grog.

  
Shout (hic)

Graham Sanders


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:04:48 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Re: suck, blow, swallo...whoops

>From Jay Hummer..
>Is it okay to suck the end of a tube to start a siphon? 
>Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

A worse predicament than whether to suck or blow is what to do with any wort
or beer that you accidentally suck into your mouth. I understand that it is
a very rare brewer indeed who actually spits it out. Other brewers who hear
of this exclaim "Oh My God, how can you do THAT?!" But the selflessness
involved tends make such brewers admired and highly sought after by all
non-brewers. Non-brewers dream of meeting a brewer who actually spits.....
Sorry, I think I've taken this bad allegory far enough.

Seriously.. I reckon the best way to start a siphon is to 3/4 fill the
siphon tube with your sanitising solution, poke one end into the source
bucket. There should be enough empty tube to be able to do this without
having sanitiser run back into the precious fluid. All this while you keep
your finger over the other end unless there is a valve-like bottling thingy
there. Then you just run the solution into a jug which draws the precious
fluid into the tubing thus verily starting the siphon. Re-stopper the tube
the desired siphoning mode. Of course one needs pretty clean hands when
doing this, especially if there is no valve-thingy. Some may have better
ways but this is what I do.





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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:22:25 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

> Subject: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

> Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

Personally, I fill with water from the tap jet thingy, clamp and shebang, 
automatic siphon. Not only does this minimize the risk, but allows me to get 
rid of the initial crud at the bottom of the racking cane when I drain the 
water into a waste glass.

If I have it available when I siphon I'll also use no-rinse idophor. To get 
the idophore in, I suck, clamp, and submerge the sucker.

Cheers,
Lance



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Date: 25 May 00 00:21:06 MDT (Thu)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: mead and cider as beer?!?

Random general follow-up to the discussion about including mead and cider
in homebrew competitions, discussions, Zymurgy, etc...

I've seen these issues many times, as digest-janitor for the Cider Digest
and Mead-Lover's Digest.  Here's how I think it falls out...sort of my view
+ views of all the folks I've read...

Cider is not beer or anything close to it.  Cider is much closer to wine in
all respects.  Varieties (and varietals) matter.  We ferment with natural
yeast if we can.  Our results vary from year to year, and there's no sense
trying to gloss that.  There's no boil and nothing added (in the best
case).  We make single-varietals where it makes sense; otherwise we blend.
Fermentation is slow; we *want* it to be slow.  3 months to ferment out is
fine with us...how do you brewers feel about making your wort, adding no
yeast, and waiting a few months for fermentation to finish?!?

Mead is on the edge.  Mead itself (just fermented honey/water) is a wine.
Braggot (honey+malt+water and maybe hops) straddles the line.  Melomels are
out in another corner.

Overall, I think that homebrewed beer is very fine...I've made many and had
many many more I liked.  I think that mead can be included in homebrew
competitions with care and judgment, but you ought to draw some lines.  And
I think that cider is off the edge.

Part of my opinion here is that I've never seen cider categories or judging
in a homebrew competition that were within a boarding-house reach of being
able to grab the long hairs of a clue.  The AHA competition categories (the
last I checked) had no relation to reality-as-we-know-it...they seemed, at
best, to represent one slightly-besotted view of cider from New England in
the US.  I note that even after 20 years of homebrewing *and* wine-tasting,
it took me several years to begin to understand how cider fit into the
picture...and mainly what that meant was a slow-won realization that cider
is a beverage unto itself, not a step-child of any other fermented beverage.

In my own personal idealized universe, I would like to see homebrew
(meaning "beer") competitions include a mead category for braggot, maybe
one for traditional mead, but no more, and *no* cider categories.  This
would help them focus on beer.  They can't judge everything, and once they
step outside of beer (in the sense of fermented malt beverage) they're on
the slippery slope to trying to deal with stuff they don't understand, so
why not focus instead?
- ---
Dick Dunn          rcd at talisman.com          Hygiene, Colorado  USA
   ...Simpler is better.


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:40:25 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: to suck or not....

Jay;
  I vote for not sucking.  There are several good alternatives.
One is to fill your racking caneand clear tubing with clean 
water and place that in the wort to start the siphon..

Another, that I now use, is a "Pig Racking Cane" sold by 
Quoin, the folkswho sell the "Party Pig".  It has a larger 
diameter cane, for faster siphoning, and it has a second (and 
smaller) hole through the stopper that allows you to affix a 
hand air pump to it.  You simply place the cane gently into
the brew, pump a few times with the hand pump and your siphon
is up and running!  And, and added plus is that if you lose 
the siphon (perhaps you didn't place it low enough out of a 
wish to avoid the gunk on the bottom) then you can easily 
start it up again with the pump!!

I don't think that sucking on the cane is the best way...but I 
do know some hard headed folks who do so...and proudly claim
(often accurately) that they make good beer...To me every 
thing that I can do to minimize the chance of infection only 
improves the quality of the beer..

Good Luck

(Quoin has a web site: http:www.partypig.com/doodads.html)
I have no connection to these folks...other than liking their 
products..


- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:44:22 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: fridge troubleshooting

Greetings folks,

 I found a great web site for those of you who are trying to 
troubleshoot a fridge problem - or even just want to learn more 
about how fridges work. Check it out!
http://www.fridgedoctor.com


Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:37:17 -0400
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: Siphon Starting

Jay Hummer asks, "Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?" when starting a
siphon.

I have been using an air cylinder as a vacuum pump for siphoning.  By pulling on
the rod, a volume of air is drawn through the head end port.  I use a plastic
hose barb -- sanitized in iodaphor -- loosely fitted into the racking tube, and
pull the vacuum.  It works best to have the tubing elevated, so that it fills
completely with wort/beer.  A pinch clamp holds the fluid while I remove the
cylinder, and fit the filler onto the tubing.

Your best bet is to find a "double acting" cylinder.  This will have a seal
configuration that most likely will pull a vacuum.  However, not every brand of
cylinder will, so test it by holding your finger over the port to check for
vacuum.  Bore and stroke are not critical, but you want a combination that
yields an adequate volume to fill the tubing (V=Area x stroke, area=pi x bore
diameter squared/4).  This will work in your favor as every distributor winds up
with some odd orphan size that they would like to find a home for.

All sorts of cylinders are available from Burden's Surplus Center, or look in
the Yellow Pages under "Cylinders".  You can also check our website
(www.humphreypc.com, and yes, I hope to profit hugely from the deluge of sales
to homebrewers ...) and click on "Distribution" (and click, and click, and ...)
for someone close to you.  Do NOT tell 'em I sent you, or you may find yourself
paying an inflated, let's fund the employee picnic, price.


Mark in Kalamazoo
See you at the NHC!




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:01:46 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: RIMS O2 Insulation

	>Another solution to reduce the liquid surface area is to use a floating 
	>plastic cover in the tun, but that would require that the cover be
	>removed each time you stirred......




I use a cover that floats on the surface with a hole in it just large
enough to accept the handle of my stirring spoon.  The hole is offset from
the center of the cover.  I swirl the spoon around and the cover rotates
with it. 

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:25:06 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

	>Is it okay to suck the end of a tube to start a siphon? 

I use the "no suck method".  Before I start, I fill the siphon tube with
water and hold it in a "U" position with both open ends up.  When I am
ready to start the siphon, I raise the output end so the water just starts
to come out the input end.  Then I put my (sanitized??) finger over the
output end to keep the water from flowing and plunge the input end onto the
carboy.  Then I drop the output end into the bucket and remove my finger. 
With a little practice, it works every time.  You don't have to have the
entire tube filled with water.  I believe that you need enough water in the
tube so that the weight of the water from the highest point of the siphon
to the output end exceeds the weight of the water from the highest point to
the input end. 

Slightly off topic but I once helped my father-in-law siphon out a 30,000+
gallon in-ground swimming pool using this method.  He just slid a 2 inch
diameter semi-ridge plastic pipe into the  pool so that it was completely
filled with water.  Then he put his hand over the output end and ran down
the hill with it.  I stayed in the pool to keep the input end below the
surface.  The siphon started on the 3rd or 4th try.  We spent the rest of
the day drinking Black Label with me in the pool guiding the input end and
him serving the beer.   

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:02:27 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Imposters and carboy caps

In HBD #3334:
Steve Lacey wrote of Outing Mead and Cider:

>So what do you say brewsters, should we run these imposters out of town or
>continue to tolerate their goofy ways amidst our dignified company?

I cast a tolerant vote.  Mead & cider do not have enough support to maintain
mass exposure on their own.  Rather than let these arts disappear into
obscurity, the homebrewing community has taken these related beverages under
their wing and helped to support them.  I think this makes homebrewers more
well-rounded and knowledgeable Zymurgists in the end.  BTW,  where's sake in
the BJCP Style Guidelines?  Sake truly is beer and it's not even mentioned
in there.  It deserves a category well before meads and ciders do.

Jay Hummer wrote of sucking & blowing:

>I just bought a carboy cap with two holes in it, so I can rack by blowing
>in one of the holes.  I figured that would solve the problem.  But no!
> I then see a catalog that sells these caps, and it refers to the practice
>of blowing in the carboy as "dubious."

I'd say the practice is certainly dubious.  I've only had 3 infected batches
in the fermenter before.  The first one was when I was first getting
started.  OK, chalk it up to inexperience.  The other two were back to back
last year, when I thought I'd grown some extra grey matter and decided to
use a carboy cap for transfers into the secondary fermenter.  At first I
thought there was something wrong with blowing into the fermenter, but they
wouldn't sell this thing if it didn't work, right?  So I chose stupidity
over years of education in the biological sciences and wound up infecting
two batches of beer with little "nasties" floating on my halotosis breath.
Scrap the cap.  Make it a dog toy or something.  

>Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

I'll give you something to suck on...  a sanitized turkey baster tube
crammed into one end of your siphon hose!  Whoa!  Pinch it off with a hose
clamp before the beer hits the tube and remove the tube before putting it in
your receiving container.  The only time beer should touch your mouth (or
any thing your mouth has touched) is when it's in the mug!  If you're an
avid hose-sucker or cap-blower, don't flame me.  How you spend your private
time is your business...  <grin>


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato

 


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:07:55 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Cheesemaker's Digest?



Dave,

     Were you clowning around, or is there really something called the
CheeseMaker's Digest?

      Much as I ranted about off-topic wine articles, I would probably
read with interest a column about cheesemaking if it were in Zymurgy,
especially if it told you how to (try to) make something like Rochefort
cheese!

     How's that for inconsistency?!

    Bill




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:27:52 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: RIMS HSA, Suck or Blow?

Brewsters:

Martin Brungard has done his homework on floating balls to reduce HSA in
his RIMS, but can't find balls of the correct specific gravity. Why not
just use one of the bubble wrap sheets used in packing and available at
Boxes R Us or whatever.  Cut to size and go around the piping?  Should work
fine at mash temperature, I'd guess and provide insulation as well as
protection from HSA to  a large extent. It is easy to move if you want to
stir.
- ------------------------
Jay Hummer asks do most people suck or do they blow?  Suck IMHO. After
starting a siphon, I run a small amount of the racked fluid into a small
clean glass, pinch off the flow,  swirl the tube end in the liquid
collected in the glass to dilute any Lactobacillus sanfrancisco and the
like and then put the tube into the receiving vessel. Not perfect, but
works just fine by many years of experience. You could consider a dip into
very hot/boiling water, ethyl alcohol or a sanitizing solution as an
alternative rinse.


Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

hi boys and girls,

On May 24, 2000, Jay Hummer wrote:

 > Is it okay to suck the end of a tube to start a siphon?  After all the
 > 
 > Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

i'd say most people are generally pretty cool. some do suck though... 


what you need is an 'auto siphon'. this is probably one of my favorite
brew toys. there is no need for sucking or blowing with this device as
it has a pump built in that allows a siphon to be started with ease.

many brew shops sell this wonderful device. i suggest you buy one.

here's a link to a picture on the manufactures site:
http://www.fermtech.on.ca/siphon%20starter/siphon.html

disclaimer: i make 2.6 million dollars for each auto-siphon sold.
 -patrick in toronto

- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:54:26 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: marris otter

>"Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> writes:
>
>I just bought my first full 55 lb bag of english 2-row from the local shop.
>Supposedly it is Maris Otter malt (certainly cost enough).  I think it says
>Muntons in big letters on the front of the sack and its does say Otter on
>the back of the sack.  Is this true marris otter or not?

Maris is the breeder, Otter is the breed of barley (there is/was also
Badger, Hedgehog, others - they apparently name their breeds after small
indigenous mammals).  Munton & Fison is the maltster.  Some MO is floor
malted, some is not.  Crisp is probably the most famous (at least in the
US) maltster of MO.  Our local importer, GW Kent, carries conventionally
malted Crisp MO and will soon carry floor malted, I think.

The higher cost is because MO is an older (1950's, I think), less
productive variety.  Farmers need an inducement to grow it.  It is
generally considered to be superior in flavor and other criteria.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:02:07 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

"Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com> wrote:
>To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

Make a siphon extender - a few inches of an old broken racking can.  (We
all have broken racking canes lying around, don't we?)  Sanitize it along
with the rest of your racking gear, insert it into the end of the racking
hose, suck, and when the beer starts to flow (I run the first into a glass
for sampling, so the contaminated beer doesn't go into the new container),
remove the extender and continue as usual.

If you don't have a broken racking cane, just cut off a few inches from the
one you have.  They always seem longer than necessary.  A copper tubing
cutter works well, or you can notch it with a file and snap it.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:15:14 -0400
From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com>
Subject: For Sale: 80 qt. Stainless Brewpot

I bought this pot at a restaurant surplus shop for a 3-tier system I'm
building but "buyers remorse" kicked in the minute I got it home. Mostly
because I came to the realization that I'll probably never brew a 15 gallon
batch.

The pot is extremely heavy gauge stainless. I'm guessing it weighs every bit
of 30 lbs. It has a few minor dings, but overall is in good shape. It
appears to be a custom built pot, the bottom is welded on and there is a
weld seam that runs the full height, but it's not visible inside the pot,
it's ground smooth. It's 16" in diameter and 26" tall.

I paid $175 for it so that's what I'm asking. I'd also consider trading it
for 2 (35,000 + btu) natural gas burners like the Superb.

I posted a few pics of it at:
http://www.loyalshepherd.com/brewpot.htm

- -- 
Art Tyszka
Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co.
http://www.loyalshepherd.com



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:30:08 -0500
From: "Vernon, Mark" <vernonm at goportable.com>
Subject: Stainless in Seattle

I have been trying to contact Stainless in Seattle via their web page
www.beeronline.com for over a week with no response. Does anyone know if
they are still alive there or have they gone bust?

Mark Vernon

Beer is proof that god loves us, and wants us to be happy
			.... Ben Franklin


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:43:30 -0600
From: "joanne" <joanne at aob.org>
Subject: Bavarian Helles

Bavarian Helles is available and there is a pre-publication offer in the
May/June issue of Zymurgy. The book is available to AHA and IBS members at
the discounted price of $11.95, with free shipping and handling. We are also
sending out a special offer for all of the titles by Horst Dornbusch which
will mail the first week of June.

If you are a member and would like to order the book at the special
pre-publication price, please call our Member Services Department toll-free
at 888.822.6273.

JoAnne Carilli
Marketing Director
Association of Brewers
ext. 144
joanne at aob.org
www.beertown.org



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:03:46 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: CIDER/MEADE

I appreciate the inclusion of mead and cider with home brewing
topics and contests.  I brew all three.

I understand that many home brewers have also fermented wine, but
that seems like a whole different culture to me.  Beer, mead and cider
all have ingredients that were commonly available whereas the
concentrates
for wine (except for the concord grape varieties) are specialty products

imported from wine growing regions.  This makes little difference
to much of anything, but the historical pattern of brewing from
local products is interesting to me.

The barley, hops and apple juice I use is of substantially the same
quality
as available to the professionals.  I appreciate the past HBD
discussions of
the upgraded quality of grape concentrates available, but, if I'm agonna

get California grapes, why not California wine?

Also, except for barleywine and some sweet meads,  the alcoholic
strength
of beers, ciders and meads is in the same range.

Yes, I subscribe to the cidre and mead lists, but the occasional
question and
comments of HDB regarding these, and even the articles in Zymurgy, are
welcome.

cheers/wassail  jim booth, lansing, mi





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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:02:16 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: mold/mildew & moisture

Kevin (kimel at moscow.com) asks about preventing mildew in his chest freezer.

I have to plug StarSan here yet again.

I haven't been able to eradicate the moisture, but I have no more
mildew/mold problems. I keep a spray bottle full of StarSan solution by my
kegs.  When I'm done drawing a pint, or I'm going to switch taps from keg to
keg, I simply give everything in sight a quick spritz with StarSan.  I only
remember to do this about every 3 weeks or so, but I no longer have any
mildew. I let the StarSan sit on the seals, on the floor of the cooler,
everywhere.  I have beer drips and moisture, but no mold or mildew!  The
downside is it lets me procrastinate properly cleaning my cooler for months
and months.

I'm convinced that this stuff is the best thing for homebrewers since corny
kegs. In fact, I'm tempted to spray it on my aging decrepit old Honda in the
hopes that it will magically fix all the rust and structural problems...

cheers,


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:03:43 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Re: To suck or not to suck, that is my question

Jay asks:

>Is it okay to suck the end of a tube to start a siphon?  After all the
>sterilizing I do with everything that touches the beer, it seems to me
>that sucking on a tube that is then placed in beer is anything but sterile.

and

>Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

I don't suck or blow.  The easiest and cheapest way of getting a syphon to
go without sucking or blowing is to pre fill the tube with water and allow
gravity to take over.

In a past life, as a homebrew shop guy, there was a Phil's syphon Philler
that worked by shaking your racking cane up and down.  It had a little ball
valve that would trap liquid on each shake.  You can also get a hand pump
gadget that does a charm--looks a bit like a turkey baster ball.

Cheers!
Matthew in CO




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:09:22 -0800
From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com>
Subject: Wort on My Balls

	Rather than try to float balls on the top of your mash go to 
Home ------ (Fill in Base, Depot, or other mega store) and get some 
Nasa looking reflective bubble wrap.  Then you could cut out a sheet 
to sit right on top with no exposed surface.  You could also wrap 
anything else with it too.  So get your balls out of your mash!

Brad


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:28:22 -0500
From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu>
Subject: Yeast Propagation and Grain/Water Ratio Questions

1. Why do you have to "step-up" a starter?  Why not just dump the smack-pack
into a 4L starter and let it go?  I don't understand the practice of going
in sequence from a pint, to quart, to a liter, to a  multi-liter starter.

On a related point, I received numerous private responses to my question
about storing a yeast starter in a capped bottle (22 oz) until you're ready
to brew.  The general consensus was that this is a common practice.  The
opinions on length of viability ranged from 2 weeks to 1 year.  Also, you
should not freeze them, for obvious reasons.

2. I received information on a good book for yeast farming and propigation
from a brewing instructor at Milwaukee Area Technical College - Laurel
Maney.  She recommended:

Rajotte, Pierre. First Steps in Yeast Culture. ISBN is 2-921327-17-1.

I haven't been able to locate a copy anywhere.  Does anyone know where to
get this book, or have a suggestion on another good book on yeast farming,
propagation?

3. What is a typical grain/water ratio for a single step infusion mash?
What are the effects of changing it?  Under what circumstances would you
want to change it?

BTW - I completed my first batch on my RIMS system.  It took me two years to
build.  I agree with an earlier post this week that a RIMS system is
time-consuming to build.  But the rewards (especially if you have an
engineer's brain) are worth it.  The Sister Star IPA has been in the primary
now 4 days and bubbling right along.  You may remember a post awhile back
asking for recipes - the Sister Star won out.

David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
david at stulife2.tamu.edu 



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:57:15 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Phloating Balls

Martin Brungard ( mabrungard at hotmail.com) is concerned that Phloating
insulating balls may not sink exactly to the depth of half their diameter. 
He is right, they won't, but the area covered between the depth they phoat
at is very close to the  area that they would have phloated at if they did
phloat at half their diameter.

In the privacy of my shop I confirmed that the s.g. of my own .75" dia.
balls was indead .25.  I found that 171 of them weighed .35 lbs.  Therefore
each weighed .002 lbs.  The volume of a .75 sphere is (.75 / 2 ) **3 * 4 /
3 * Pi =  .221 in. cubed.  Water's density is .036 lbs per in. cubed.  The
density of my balls is therefore .002 / .036 /.221 = .251.

The area covered by a sphere in a liquid is far from linear to the depth it
is submerged.  

The volume of water displaced by an object weighing .002 pounds is .002 /
 .036 = .055 in. cubed.  

The volume of a spherical segment is calculated by : V = Pi * h**2 * ( r -
h / 3 )  where h is the height of the segment and r is the radius of the
sphere.

In our case h equals .245"  ( OK, OK, I confess, I found that by iteration
 - only three - not bad - huh?)

The astute will note that .245 is less than one third the diameter of the
 .75" sphere, but how much area does that cover?  The diameter of a
spherical segment is found by: c = 2 * ( h * ( 2 * r - h ))**.5  .  In this
case we have 2 * ( .245 * ( 2 * .375 - .245 ) **.5 = .703" diameter whose
area is obviously .388 in squared.

Each sphere will occupy an area of its diameter squared times the cosine of
30 degrees.  In this case of a .75" ball that is .487 in squared.  The
percentage of area my balls will cover is .388 / .487 * 100 = 79.7 %.  Not
bad considering that only 9 % of the area above the surface of the liquid
is exposed to air.  ( The balls only expose 9% of the area covered where
they touch ) 

I lowered my balls into a glass of room temperature water and empirically
confirmed my calculations. 

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com    72723.1707 at compuserve.com 



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:15:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: new board

Now it is great to read on the HBD (a non AHA entity) about the new BofA
advisors.  I am wondering why members could not have been notified via
techtalk (though I have not gotten any mailings in ages) or on their
webpage?  I notice that there is no mention on talkback either. I
certainly hope the new board will work towars getting the AHA to
communicate directly with members.  No I don't want to hear about how
complicated the AOB webpage is and that it takes time to update.  

Also when is Zymurgy going stop being treated as the redheaded stepchild?
I don't think I need to rehas how money was spent in the past in a
organization that used "promotion of homebrewing" as its claim for tax
exempt status.The new brewer online is update farily frequently.  
Zymurgy online still has a feb 9 byline.  

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:03 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Starting a siphon




It is pretty funny that a guy named "Jay Hummer"
asks "To suck or not to suck, that is my question."

>Is it okay to suck the end of a tube to start a siphon?

I used to do it, and I know other people who do it.  I would imagine
this is a potential source of contamination, particularly siphoning into
the primary fermenter, where the wort is still fresh and the yeast has
not had a chance to get established.

I found a good way to start a siphon without putting your mouth on the
hose is to:

1) Put your racking cane in the carboy, with no hose attached.  The
homebrew stores sell a plastic thingy shaped like a big pencil point
with a hole in the middle.  This goes in the mouth of the carboy and
the racking cane goes in the center of it, to hold the racking in the
center of the hole.  If you don't know what I'm talking about, ask your
local homebrew shop owner.

2) Have a large cup nearby.  One of those big plastic ones that
McDonalds sells their large drinks in works fine.

3) Take the hose and put it under the faucet, filling it completely with
water.  When it is full, put your thumb over one end to hold the water
in.  Have a hose clamp on the end.  Tip: run the water slowly from the
faucet for this step.

4)  Attach the end of the hose your thumb is not over to the racking
cane.

5) Run the other end of the hose into the cup.  Move your thumb to
start the siphon.

6) When beer just begins to run out, pinch off the hose clamp.

7) Move the hose to your receiving vessel, and release the clamp.

This should start your siphon without sucking or blowing.  It requires
no equipment that you probably don't already have.  Your mouth will
never have to touch the hose again.  Sometimes you may have to repeat
the procedure a couple times.  I generally can get it going within 3 tries.




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:45:01 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: CIDER/MEADE

I appreciate the inclusion of mead and cider with home brewing
topics and contests.  I brew all three.

I understand that many home brewers have also fermented wine, but
that seems like a whole different culture to me.  Beer, mead and 
cider all have ingredients that were commonly available whereas 
the concentrates for wine (except for the concord grape varieties) 
are specialty products

imported from wine growing regions.  This makes little difference
to much of anything, but the historical pattern of brewing from
local products is interesting to me.

The barley, hops and apple juice I use is of substantially the 
same quality as available to the professionals.  I appreciate the 
past HBD discussions of  the upgraded quality of grape concentrates
available, but, if I'm agonna
get California grapes, why not California wine?

Also, except for barleywine and some sweet meads,  the alcoholic
strength of beers, ciders and meads is in the same range.

Yes, I subscribe to the cidre and mead lists, but the occasional
question and comments of HDB regarding these, and even the articles in
Zymurgy, are welcome.

cheers/wassail  jim booth, lansing, mi


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:48:16 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: worldbeertour.com

I've had the great pleasure to enjoy the gracious company
of Michael Jackson at several beer events, and I was
pleasantly surprised to get an advertisment for his
beer of the month program of 12 bottles of imported beers for
$35/month, complete with his tasting notes.

I think I'll subscribe, but if any of you have experiences with
this program (good or bad) you'd share privately with me, I'd be
appreciative.    kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us

I belong to Hogshead's program and I split that 3 ways
so 1/3rd of $24/delivery for domestics isn't too bad .  So
MJ's $3/bottle for  imports delivered doesn't seem that bad.
If they are the brews I get at the local beer store, I'll drop out.

The information is at www.worldbeertour.com and it
is suposed to be interactive where individuals can post
their own tasting notes.

cheers,  jim booth


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:20:29 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Trolls and tribulations


> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:40:49 +1000
> From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
> Subject: Re: Outing of Mead and cider!
> So what do you say brewsters, should we run these imposters
> out of town or
> continue to tolerate their goofy ways amidst our dignified
> company? I'm not
> sayin' we better 'n 'em, jis they shore are funny lookin'!
> Bites, anyone?
>
> Steve Lacey

Dang tootin', Steve, I am with you on this one. Honey is fer dippin' graham
crackers, apples are for pie. Ain't nothin' good ever came from any other
use. And while we is at it, let's make sure them damn sake brewers know they
ain't welcome in these parts, neither. Gol dang, that is VILE stuff. I ain't
tasted anything that bad since I dropped my tooth scrubber in the porcelain
convenience just before flush day. Dang near didn't use it but I wanted both
my teeth lookin' perty fer Becky Sue that night. Ain't nothin' good ever
came from allowin'yer starch convertin' and yer fermentin' to go on at the
same time. And while we is at it, don' even get me started on that dang
ale-lager nonsense. Its Beer, B-E-R-E, Beer!

> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:01:09 -0700
> From: "Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com>
> Subject: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.
>
>
> Do most people suck?  Or do they blow?

PAAAT! Jay's saying bad things again!

Shame on you, Jay, and shame on anyone who comes back with the expected
replies involving wives, girlfriends and vacuum cleaners.

> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Scott Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com>
> Subject: AHA BOA CONGRATS!!!
>
> Congrats Pat, Louis and Randy!
>
> I look forward to good things from you guys!
>

Hmmm, only 3 names are mentioned. Hmmmm.
You wuz robbed, Scott!

Brian, with contributions from cousin Clem.



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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:03:32 -0400
From: Marler Stephen <marler-stephen at dol.gov>
Subject: REMINDER - SoFB Entries now being accepted

This is a reminder that entries are being accepted for the Brewers United
for Real Potable's (BURP) Eight Annual Spirit of Free Beer (SoFB)
competition.   The deadline for entries to be submitted is June 5, 2000.
The competition will be held on Saturday 10 June and Sunday 11 June at the
Old Dominion Brewing Company in Ashburn, Virginia.

The Details

The SoFB competition is open to all homebrewers and will judge all BJCP/AHA
sanctioned styles including Meads and Ciders.  The SoFB competition is
judged by experienced BJCP certified judges.  The SoFB prides itself on the
quality of the comments made and prizes that are awarded.

The SoFB is also a MCAB qualifying competition.  You can get information on
the qualifying styles at http://brew.oeonline.com/mcab/mcab3/qstyles.html

Additional details can be found at www.burp.org <http://www.burp.org>  or
you may email Bruce Bennett at btbennet at erols.com
<mailto:btbennet at erols.com>  or phone at 703 594-3344.  

BJCP-accredited beer judges who wish to judge this event can register at
http://www.burp.org/SoFB2000/js-call.htm




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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:57:09 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: exploding bottles!!! 

Glen Pannicke is having trouble with exploding bottles (ouch!):

"Rather than lose half the beer when I open it and handle each potential bomb
with kid gloves (and safety goggles), I put one of the the bottles in the
fridge & dropped the temp to around 35F for a few days.  I then opened the
bottle to vent the CO2 in the headspace, swabbed the neck with 70% ethanol
and loosely placed a sanitized cap on top for about 15-20 minutes to let
some more CO2 slowly escape from the beer and displace the O2 in the open
headspace."

This sounds like a job for.... PLASTIC BOTTLE MAN !!!!  wait, I'll go get
him...

<rant=on>

Now here is a great reason to bottle in plastic.  If you had been using
plastic bottles, as I do, Glen, you would simply have twisted open the cap,
let out however much pressure you wanted to, and twisted the cap back on.
No muss, no fuss, no glass shards, no angry spouse.  And lest anyone think
that the caps on plastic Pepsi or Coke bottles are not reusable, let me
assure you they are; I have been using the same bottles and caps for two
years now, with no problems whatsoever.  None.  And if you are still
worried about your beer skunking, and you don't want add cardamom to your
beer ( ask Cardamom Guy about that), you can now buy brown PET bottles.  I
am looking in my Grape & Granary catalog right now, and I see that they
have 24-16oz brown PET bottles for $13.99 and 12- 33 oz bottles for $12.99.
 The caps are extra and cost $0.10 each (that's in US dollars for you
Ozzies. :) ) (Parenthesis Person is threatening to rave on about all these
ellipses I'm using, so I'd better stop.)

Then there's the oxygen diffusion question.  There is a very small amount,
as well as CO2 diffusion the other way.  All I can say is I have a batch of
beer that has been in plastic bottles a year now.  I tested a bottle last
week; no 'wet cardboard' or other sign of oxidation; the beer tastes much
the same as it did 6 months ago.  No loss of carbonation yet, either.  I
have three bottles left, which I will try at intervals of three months or so.

Did I mention that PET has a burst strength of 8000 psi per mil of
thickness?  Not likely you can get yeast to develop that kind of pressure,
huh?  And I bet you can't get a PET bottle to break no matter how hard you
throw it at something.   And...

<rant=off>

There, he's gone now...  thank goodness for that!

Cheers, Jim

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:37:56 -0700
From: "Michael Rose" <maltandhops at msn.com>
Subject: Glyco proteins questions

 To the scientist out there,
    I've been reading some of the old Glyco-protein posts
and had a couple of questions.

1) At the proper temps ( 170's F ) wouldn't the Glyco-
protein reactions take place at the same rate in both the mash tun
and the kettle? ( during the heating up stage )

2) If the above is true, wouldn't all brewers be doing some 
of glyco-protein rest. The brewers with slower-to-bring-to-a-boil
systems doing a longer rest?

3) This naturally begs the question; Would a 175 F KETTLE rest have 
any positive or negative implications?

Comments please

Thanks, mike rose      Crestline, CA   maltandhops at msn.com 




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---