---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Specialty Grains ("Marc Gaspard")
  under the southern cross i stand... (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Homebrew Tri-Nations? (LyndonZimmermann)
  HBD Congress Mash experiment (Harlan Bauer)
  Apologies, Reprimands And Science ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Trappist...have I done the right thing? ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  RE: Homebrewing in France (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
  lagers (Bill re: Fosters..why?) ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  re:Thermocouple braid problem (Paula & Jim)
  re:mash pH ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Beer on airplanes ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Blanche De Chambly (Bill.X.Wible)
  Digital thermometer solution --- I  am late again ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Foster's yeast. ("Dr. Pivo")
  Digital Thermometers (Ian Smith)
  Saaz growth and substitutes ("Dr. Pivo")
  thermocouple braid problem ("St. Patrick's")
  beer on planes ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  brewing software ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: beer on planes (Some Guy)
  Specialty grain mashing ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: Thermocouple braid problem (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: Water analysis help ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Thermometers ("dr smith")
  re: Beer on airplanes ("Stephen Alexander")
  cap labels and bottle caps (JGORMAN)
  2000 California State Fair Competition ("Sam Hernandez")
  Re: Blanche de Chambly yeast (mmaceyka)
  My yeast is having hot and cold flashes (Charley Burns)
  super charged iodaphor ("steve lane")
  Saaz ("Jim Busch")
  Sulfur ("Aaron Sepanski")


* Don't miss the 2000 AHA NHC in Livonia, MI 
* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:51:26 -0500
From: "Marc Gaspard" <mgaspard1 at kc.rr.com>
Subject: Specialty Grains

From: "Steve" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: Mashing specialty grains

Greetings, all.

I just heard something that I've never heard or read before about
mashing, but this guy is adamant about it. He says that specialty
grains, especially crystal and dextrin malt, should not be mashed with
the base malt because  the enzymes will 'destroy' the dextrins, leaving
nothing but fermentable sugars. He claims that this will lead to
overattenuation and thin body. He says if you want to use crystal, then
steep it in the boil kettle.

I've never seen this concept in print, and I've always put all my grain
bill in the mash tun, but I thought I'd present it to the group. What
say you all: Mash 'em all, or separate and steep?


Steve
************************************************
Even as an all-grain brewer I usually add specialty grains to the
mash after I've acheived conversion.  But I've only done this be-
cause I've read that specialty grains, especially crystal and cara-
mel, interfere with the iodine test for starch conversion.  How-
ever, I must admit that my beers seem cleaner and tastier doing
this.  In some cases I even add a few ounces of a specialty grain
(chocolate, black patent or special B) to the top of the grist be-
fore sparging; this seems to add some color and flavor without
roastiness.

                                        Marc Gaspard

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."-Ben Franklin
(I know, I know, we don't know if he really said or wrote this!)




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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:52:55 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: under the southern cross i stand...

ant..

"All this talk of Fosters gave me an idea. Are any of the Kiwi or Aussie
members going to be supporting their sides when they play rugby over here in
SA?"

Sitting with my NSW training jersey on and coat of arms placed dearly near my 
heart, I am looking forward to a resounding victory over the QLD reds on the 
weekend. Does the pope where a silly hat..of course there is support for the 
tri-nations. I do feel sorry for both NZ and SA though...

Talking of mateship (did I forget to mention the band of bawdy school girls
as well Graham??), I am in desperate need of bottles, as i have 3 batches
all in deperate need of a home. Sydney locale is good, eastern suburbs
even better.Otherwise I will need to take "Plastic Bottle Man" advice.

under the southern cross i stand,

scotty








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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:51:00 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Homebrew Tri-Nations?

Rugby?  What's that?  Oh, yes, it's a funny game played by thugs in
Queensland and New South Wales.  I think I'm supposed to ask League or
Union?  Australian Rules is the code down here.

Isn't living in a federation great?  You have to stick it up your countrymen
(well over beer and sport anyway).

Coopers is the only decent commercial beer in Australia (though some of the
others are starting to wake up).  But South Australian owned and made has
nothing to do with it.

Lyndon Zimmermann
South Australia

Lyndon Zimmermann and Associates (Business number 0442221W)
Sustainable Energy Consultants
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz

Coming to the ISES 2001 Solar World Congress?  
Find out more at http://www.unisa.edu.au/ises2001congress



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:50:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: HBD Congress Mash experiment

Steve Alexander writes about Nathaniel Lansing's odd pH values in a Congress
mash:

>Now it is time to have someone else
>repeat the experiment - someone without an axe to grind.  It would be nice
>if AJ or Alan Meeker or Scott Murman another party not directly involved
>in the discussion but with access to the lab equipment and a good reputation
>for accurate unbiased reportage would repeat this portion.

This is a great idea! I have an accurate meter and electrode and would like
to participate. ASBC routinely uses multiple labs to repeat their Methods in
order to determine accuracy--IOW, if it cannot be repeated then something's
wrong.

Rather than the usual wrangling that goes on here, those with access to
accurate measuring equipment could easily measure the pH of a clearly
defined Congress Mash to determine whether Nathaniel's measurements were
somehow off, or whether he stumbled across a legitimate anomaly.

This is a very answerable question. Any takers?

Harlan.



Harlan Bauer, Head Brewer          ...malt does more than Milton can
Copper Dragon Brewing Co.          To justify God's ways to man.
Carbondale, IL                                      --A. E. Houseman



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:38:17 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Apologies, Reprimands And Science

First of all I'd like to apologise to Bill X Wible for the rowdy outburst he
received from the HBD Aussie contingent regarding his request for a Fosters
lager recipe. I'm with you Bill, You can go and brew whatever you like for
yourself and your friends. Pay no heed to this undisciplined crowd over
here, they are all going to get their mouths washed out with soap tonight. I
promise!!

And just for this outburst, there'll be nothing but Fosters on tap for the
next two months at the Burradoo Hilton!

Bill, I must say, you hit a sore point. Most Aussies once guzzled Fosters
like there was no tomorrow, a lot still do. Those of us who drifted into
homebrewing realised what a rotten excuse for a beer we had been drinking
and we flew into a rage. Though I have long since risen above this, others
will never forgive. It's just as well those Fosters brothers got out of here
when they did!

Graham Sanders comments :
>Oh Phil, yes we are still mates, as long as I get the yeast, >and not that
>vial on the far post.

Graham
No way am I wasting my skunk oil on a Townsvillianite! I've noted an Aussie
HBD'er who is in need of a whiff. Goes by the name of Lyndon Zimmermann and
writes :
>I think the Yanks call it
>skunky but few of us have ever seen or smelt a skunk.

Lyndon, I have here in a little bottle something just for you.

Fred Garvin can't remember his trip to Oz. Well maybe he never got here. I'm
only going on what Jeff Renner told me. It's quite possible the two of them
never got here at all but spent the night on Jeff's porch. I'm not going to
ask any further questions of the night's activities!

But getting back to Calcium Sulphate. Wes Smith got me worried about the
water pH here in the Southern Highlands. And he is right, it sits around a
pH of 8. I tried a bit of Calcium Sulphate in the mash because my new pH
meter was telling me the pH was 5.6. Just a little too high. But I couldn't
get it to drop, so in went a bit more chalk. Still no drop in pH.
about with this again!
In fact I am now using lactic acid to get my brewing water down to about pH
7 before I start the mash. I can just tell by taste that this is going to
add a crispness to my lagers.
Science is a funny thing. It is not a means to an end in itself. It is an
attempt to explain what is going on. Personally, I don't understand any of
it. I'm one of those dumb cruds who thought of little at school beyond
motorbikes and girlfriends. God smiled on me to get me where I am. But I
reckon I've got a feel for this brewing, science or no science.

Cheers
Phil












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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:14:03 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Trappist...have I done the right thing?

I brewed a Trappist (wlp500 Whitelabs), and let the 
temperature hover too close to the 65F recommended apex.  Upon 
transfer into the secondary it tasted a bit more yeasty and 
'hefe-like'... that I think can be contributed to the high 
temp in primary...so I let it sit for another day (at around 
65) then decided to crash cool it.  (OG was 1.046, going into 
the secondary it was 1.022  so I wanted to give the yeast a 
day or two to get the gravity down a bit....?) It is now at 
about 50F.  I am hoping that this will floc the yeast 
out...but am undertain if this can deal with the flavor.....

I used:

       3 lb Torrified Barley Flakes
       4.5 lb Halcyon 2 row
       1.0 lb Paul's Dark Crystal
       1.0 lb Belgian Biscuit Malt
       1 cup Special B

2 stage infusion (148F, 158F)

Cascades, then Kent Goldings (all the hops I had)...

    Anyone know if the crashing will help the flavor?

 ..Darrell
<Terminally INtermediate Home-brewer>

- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:33:50 -0400
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob at erols.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrewing in France

Mike Abbott asked about French homebrewing:

Michael Jackson, in his 1993 book, _World Beer Companion_, lists the
following in the reference section which may be of help:

Les Amis de la Biere
Les Sept Muids
36 Route de la Valenciennes
Haspres 59198
France

May be out of date, but it's all I got for you. MJ asks that people
writing should include postage and expect answers in French, but if
you're moving to Toulouse, I expect you've got some of that already.

- --Rob Hanson
Washington, DC

- ----

"...They have worked their will on John Barleycorn
But he lived to tell the tale,
For they pour him out of an old brown jug
And they call him home brewed ale."




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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:41:52 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: lagers (Bill re: Fosters..why?)


Bill;

  I found your post refreshing in that I too have been trying 
to brew lighter lagers for folks who don't (yet) like darker 
alse and stouts.  Do you have any recipes that came out 
particularly good that you are willing to share?

  I have been experimenting with rice lately (bought a 55lb 
bag of "flaked brown rice") and plan to try more corn brews 
once the huge bag is used up.

  Here is a recipe for a San Francisco Lager that was a hit 
here among the lighter crew (although some found it to be too 
hoppy):
3.5 lb Halcyon
1 lb Crystal
1.5 lb Munich
1 lb Torrified Barley Flakes
2.5 lb Flaked Rice

2 stage infusion (48,58 F)
wlp810 SF Lager Yeast (58-65F)
OG=1.054
FG=1.014
%ABW=4.2


FWH with Cascades
1/2 oz Fuggles  at  30
same  at  15

I think that if I were to do this again, I'd put in less 
Cascade (1/2 oz rather than the oz I used) for the lighter 
crew...

Good Brewing!
 ..Darrell

- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:51:09 -0400
From: Paula & Jim <jimala at servtech.com>
Subject: re:Thermocouple braid problem

Pete Calinski writes:
>>>>
I have a heat shrink "heat gun" and a spare thermocouple so I would be glad
to try this and report the results.  Can anyone point me to a suitable
shrink tubing?  I feel it would need to be "food grade" and be able to
withstand boiling temperatures.

In other experiments I have tried, I used the thin aquarium tubing assuming
it is food grade.  It doesn't hold up well to the high temperatures.  It
even seems to deteriorate after multiple mashes.
<<<<

You could avoid the problem entirely by building a thermometer port into
your mashtun.  I have made several from copper fittings from the hardware
store for my mashtun, HLT, and boiling pot.  If there is any interest, LMK
and I will post construction details.

Cheers, Jim
Jim & Paula Adwell
jimala at ptd.net
jimala at servtech.com
jimala at apical.com
http://www.servtech.com/public/jimala/


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:44:16 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:mash pH

Steve responds: >>14% increase in certain foam related
proteins during a 76C 'mashout' of a modified Congress mash.  <<

 The report shows a 100% increase at 75C. I mentioned this before.
Don't invent false results.

>>The step mash period is unusually lengthy (3.3 hours mash + 1.5 hour
mashout).<<

  The reports mash was 20 minutes for saccharification then a 90 minute
mash out, a 30 minute sampling, 60 minute sampling, and a 90
minute sampling. 

>>"pH adjustment" means controlling the pH to a predetermined value or
range
based on measurement.  It does NOT mean happening upon a reasonable pH
based
on a particular combination of calcium addition, malt and temperature.  <<

  That is simply contradictory. If the ph is adjusted with acid or minerals
or lye
doesn't mean the the ph isn't controlled. 

>>Also a
Congress mash CANNOT include a calcium addition<<

 All I said was "congress mashing equipment was used", it was never
called a congress mash.

>>The paper you cited did add
150ppm calcium ions to the mash water, but was NOT pH adjusted to any
specified value as far as I can tell.<<

 The mineral addition _is_ the adjustment. 150 ppm calcium will yield
a mash of pale malt in distilled water in the normally accepted range.

>>1/ The paper's calcium ions may have been from calcium's sulfate, calcium
hydroxide, calcium bicarbonate or other sources.  <<

 Well duh! of course the results would be different if you use an alkaline
salt as to compared to a neutral salt!

>>Adding the calcium after the mash-in, as you did, should have a different
effect than adding the calcium before mash-in or at a lower temperature.

  That will be tested today (Friday)  

>>Your pH both in distilled water
and after gypsum addition defy common experience, <<

 ???Gypsum is recommended  frequently to achieve a mash pH in
the normal range. (unless stylist concerns demand other ions)

>>- someone without an axe to grind.  <<

Axe to grind? I had stated a foam (mouth feel) rest will _improve_
foam retention and present a published report from the Beer
research Institute that supports my contention. You still won't accept
the results. The mash pH was adjusted with mineral additions.
The grind would affect only tannin extraction, but that is not the point
of the experiment. It takes only 1/2 hour to get appox. 50% increase
of foam active G-Ps in the sweet wort. 

>>To me your result defies the literature<<
   For how many years did "the literature" state that yeasts respire
in brewer's wort??



One good measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions,
   N.P. Lansing


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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:59:06 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Beer on airplanes

In HBD #3341 Fred L. Johnson wrote of the poor quality of beer on airplanes:

>  I have always bemoaned the
>fact that the beers available on airlines are not of the quality that
>I care to drink unless I am REALLY thirsty.  I have even complained
>about this to the airlines.

I've been pretty disappointed with the beers available on airlines as well.
Bud and Heineken seem to rule the 'lines I fly - domestic, at least.  On
occasion I've even been offered a Sam Adams on the list (which doesn't
excite me either, but some would go nuts over it).  I guess we have to be
content with the favorites of the majority.  The only time I was very
pleased with the beer I had was on a trip back from China - Sapporo black
label.  Musta been the combination with the food...

Jeff Renner exposes the Fosters import conspiracy:

>Ahh, the marketers here in the States are are much too clever to brew it
>here - they want to be able to say in big letters, "IMPORTED".  So they
>brew it in Canada and ship it across the border duty free thanks to NAFTA
>(North American Free Trade Agreement).

I realized this a few weeks ago - after waiting over an hour to get into an
Outback restraunt for dinner.  I figured I'd have the Australian beer in the
Australian restraunt with my Australian food.  It was kind of a bummer, but
at least it's better than Bud.  I guess the only things Oz that pique my
interests now are the funny animals and the ladies at the pool table.  Maybe
I could get a real beer at the Buradoo Hilton ;-)


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:26:48 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Blanche De Chambly



Blanche De Chambly is a wheat beer made by Unibroue, inc.  They are
 a French company with large operations in both France and Canada.
They do make a number of outstanding brews.

They have an awesome web page that describes all their products, and
has links to other excellent beer sites.  Unfortunately,  I don't have internet
access here at work to give you the url.  Just do an internet search for
Unibroue and you should find it pretty easily.

Bill




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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:05:06 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Digital thermometer solution --- I  am late again

It seems Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>

Has already done what I proposed:


>The ultimate solution was to go down to my local electronics supply house
>(hobby store or hardware store might also work) and purchase a foot of
3/16"
>or 1/4" diameter (just bigger than the probe diameter) Teflon heat shrink
>tubing. I slid the tubing over the braid/probe junction, shrank it with a
>heat gun (kind of hot hair dryer) and viola! - no more water seepage
>problems! Never had a problem since!


One concern.  Is all Teflon "food grade"?  I am sure the frying pan
material is but, what about the type used in shrink tubing?  I envy all you
people that can toss around the poly-propolides and butyl-marmalades and
whatever.  It never means anything to me but I know the insiders can tell
everything just from these words, a few winks, and a hand gesture or two.
:-)

The reason I ask is I have been "burned" by Teflon.  The technician that
wired a unit for me used Teflon insulated wire but didn't install it
correctly.  The Teflon "cold flowed" where it contacted some edges and
caused more intermittent short circuits than I could keep up with.

What should one look for to be sure the shrink tubing won't give off any
nasties even up to boiling temperatures?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:36:41 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Foster's yeast.

I had occassion to chat yesterday with a Weihenstephan grad, sitting on
the porch in the afternoon sun.  In the midst of about 6 Paulaner Weiss
mitt hefen, the somewhat uninteresting title came up.  He had had
previous contact with the brewery in Braunsweig which has the German
Foster's license.

According to him, the yeast both at the German plant, and that sent to
Australia, comes from a yeast bank in England.  It is jealously guarded
by the Foster's folks, and not one millilitre is ever allowed to go out
through the gate.

This is of course, entirely understandable.  To put brewer's yeast in
any kind of wort environment, and have it produce alcohol, without
producing any other flavours whatsoever, is no mean achievement.

The Foster's Frosty of pre-Bond days was quite another thing I would
like to recall, and had a nice little "honey tone" and as all the major
Australian brews since then have gone on to a shocking display of
homogeneity, and flavourlessness (and they usually call them "bitters"?).

These days Fosters is, and should have, gone one step farther in the use
of Nitrogen technology.... rather than using nitrogen gas for head
enhancing qualities, Foster's is served at liquid nitrogen temperatures. 

At any higher temperatures, the ice-cicles on your tonsils are likely to
melt, leaving your taste buds unprotected, and Bazza's famous Manley
Pier chunder will likely ensue, with or without the prawns.

Then again, should one follow the advice re: pitching rates,
hyper-oxegenation, CKT's, lactic acid pH balancing, and the rest often
admonished here, one may be able to achieve this little miracle of
lifelessness and tastelessness one self in your own kitchen.

Don't forget to chill the buggery out of it.

Dr. Pivo

P.S. Yes. After 6 Paulaner mitt hefen, one can still here the sound of
distant thunder rumbleing from my bowels.... could this be the
equivalent of a Bavarian enema?


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:47:40 -0600 
From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
Subject: Digital Thermometers

Peter asks:

"In my experience, they should be able to claim 1F repeatability.  It seems
that when the temperature is changing rapidly, the units seem to update in
two degree increments.  Once things settle down they fluctuate in one degree
increments.  They must have built in some kind of tracking loop that waits
for a 2F change before update during rapid movements."

The reason they go up in 2 deg F intervals is that they are actually working
on the Celsius scale and converting to Fahrenheit (1.8 degrees delta F = 1
degrees delta C) so every once in a while they only jump 1 deg F in order to
"catch up".

Ian Smith
isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> 



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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:58:05 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Saaz growth and substitutes

The king of the Buzzards asked:

> Is anyone out in HBDLand sucessfully growing Saaz hops? FYI, I am on the
> East Coast, specifically Philadelphia.

Back in 1984, I dug with my pen knife outside of Zatec, and scraped some
Saaz root hunks out of the ground.

Rumour had it that I performed bizarre sexual acts with it at night in
my hotel room until I got it home, but I am here to say that that is
ABSOLUTELY not true, and Phil Yates is still the only one I know who
spills his seed in the garden, amidst visions of long gone movie stars
(stay off the "gold-tops", Phil).

Boy! Not a weed would touch that red clay dirt I transported them home
in for a year (The East Bloc was sort of big into petru-chemicals, is my guess).

The first two years I had it in a sort of shady spot and it did not so
well.  I transplanted it to a southern wall of the house and it took off
like a shot and soon elliminated all the tulips, easter lillies, and the
"lieutenants heart" (I can not possibly find a proper English
translation for that plant) that grew in the vicinity.

It is till doing fine, and I think is quite a hardy thing but does like
MUCH sunlight.... I am living at 60 degrees North, so I would think that
Philadelphia would get a larger proportion.

2 tricks I learned in Czecho. After flowering and harvest, cut the thing
down to about 3 decimeters over the ground.... next spring trim one
decimeter UNDER the ground (whacking the "apical meristems", which is
just a fancy pair of words for "it looks like asparagus tips").

As to ersatzing (ersaazing?) the only other weed I've found that makes a
sort of "poor man's Saaz", is Hallertauer Herzbrucher.... really fairly similar.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:09:13 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: thermocouple braid problem

We include a piece of heat shrink tubing with these digital timer/thermometers.
The heat shrink tubing is 1/4" (4" long) available at Home Depot.  You can
apply it with either a hair dryer or in the oven at 250F.  This seems to do
the job.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Dr
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
www.stpats.com







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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:17:05 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: beer on planes

Fred (FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net) says beer on planes sucks because it's
canned. I agree that canned beer is not usually very high quality. Here in
Canada I've had  Big Rock Traditional from a can on a plane. While Big Rock
from a can isn't as good as from a bottle, it's still a far sight better
than the rest of the offerings.

Related note: sometimes the canned stuff, while not very good, is at least
consistent. For example, try to get a Heineken that isn't skunky in a
bottle. At least the canned stuff is stable.

All in all, I'd rather drink water unless I can get a real beer. Especially
on a plane. So de-hydrating!

cheers


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:17:09 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: brewing software

I'm sure there'll be a lot of responses. Dan (martich at nyct.net) asks about
good software. The best, in my opinion, is ProMash from Sausalito Software.
It's only for WinTel but it's worth putting up with the PC to use ProMash.
And it's cheap!

For a free Demo version visit the ProMash website  www.promash.com.
The Demo version is fully functional, and allows you to work on and save 3
recipes over 9 brewing sessions.

It's full featured and fully modifiable.  Check out the details and a deal
at www.paddockwood.com/catalog_equipment.html#SOFTWARE

We use it for all our in-house brews.

hope this is useful!


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:55:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: beer on planes


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

> From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>

> All in all, I'd rather drink water unless I can get a real beer. Especially
> on a plane.

 You obviously missed that news story regarding the cleanliness of airplane
 potable water tanks...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:43:29 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Specialty grain mashing

Perhaps Rich Sieben is correct when he says the fellow who told
Steve....."is a fool"....  But sometimes where there's smoke there's fire.
Some texts (sorry, no references available) do talk of adding specialty
grains very late in the mash, at/during vorlauf and mashout only.  I've done
this as an experiment for my dry stouts, adding the roasted barley or
chocolate malt after conversion during a recirculation and mashout period
only.  Not because of any enzymatic activity but to "smooth out" any
harshness of these grains.  It's only anecdotal, but the resulting beer was
smoother, with less sharp edges than others I've done.   As far as boiling
the grain, I thought what Steve reported was "steeping" the grains in the
kettle; I just don't recall the exact verbiage but I didn't recall anything
about boiling.  But here too there is precedence in the form of boiling
grains during decoctions without tannin extraction.  Here it all depends on
the pH of the boil.  If it's low enough, then boiling the grains doesn't
lead to tannin extraction.   And while I understand the principle behind
having unfermentable dextrins in crystal malt to add flavor, body and
sweetness to the final product, I must admit I don't fully understand why
perhaps a mash doesn't break these down just as proteolytic and diastatic
enzymes do with proteins and sugars.  So maybe he isn't a fool after all,
just that with all this "whisper down the valley" maybe the story has got
changed along the way.

David Houseman


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:49:22 -0500 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Thermocouple braid problem

From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>

>I have a heat shrink "heat gun" and a spare thermocouple so I would be glad
>to try this and report the results

I have no trust that even heat shrunk tubing will reliably prevent water
intrusion.  It might appear like a good fix at first, only to later find out
that water was slowly penetrating and then remaining (trapped) only to cause
more problems.

You might consider a different approach, one that I have used on a plastic
sensor and attached cord.  I simply placed the probe halfway into a foot
long vinyl tube then bent the tube back completely and tie wrapped in a few
places.  Now there is no opening for water to possibly intrude.  You can use
more than a foot of course, depending on how deep you intend to submerge the
probe.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:28:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: Water analysis help

Bob asks about his water, especially regarding a metallic taste,

your Ca and SO4 are pretty low. i guess i'd classify your water as
'soft', at least compared to Toronto H2O. i think it's a good idea to
preboil the H2O primarily to remove the Chlorine but i also find it
'sets' the pH, by causing the carbonate and Ca to react. 

i can't see anything in your water report that would give a metallic
taste to the beer. however, your report seems to be lacking any
information about metals that would cause such a flavor (don't really
know what a metallic aroma is). perhaps you need to have a more
thorough analysis performed. 

bitters, such as those from the Burton area of England, have very high
SO4 levels. you'll need to had quite a bit of SO4 to reach a similar
level. i think i recall them having around 150 mg/L (same as 150 ppm).

i usually adjust my water as it seems to help with the fermentation
(solely empirical observation, i've never done a side by side test
of this).

here's an example from an IPA i made: remember mg/L = ppm (i have a
balance capable of measuring 0.001 grams):

water adjustments:      |Toronto H2O    |[final]
                        |               |
to 14 gal add:          |Ca   36 mg/L   |172 mg/L
0.35 g MgSO4            |SO4  32 mg/L   |150 mg/L
5.9 g CaSO4             |Mg  8.3 mg/L   | 15 mg/L
1.3 g Cacl              |Cl   26 mg/L   | 50 mg/L

the values for Toronto H2 are from the city. [final] is shorthand for
'final concentration'. feel free to check my math and tell me i messed
up!

patrick from Toronto, currently in Bellevue, WA, visiting the fam 

- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:18:54 GMT
From: "dr smith" <drsmithhm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thermometers

No, this isn't about that other timer/cooking gizmo(of which I own
and use for my mash - just don't submerse it).  Apparently for the
cost of arm, leg, wheelbarrow, and a truck, you can get an infrared
thermometer from www.jensentools.com.  I just got the new catalog,
saw this nifty device and started thinking about how nice it would
be for taking temperature without having to sanitize yet another
piece of brewing equipment.

Has anyone tried one of these on a liquid?  Did it work?  Was it
accurate?  Will wort transparency/translucense affect the reading?
I'm thinking that since it isn't affected by the air temp. between
it and it's target and since air is transparent, that these might
be factors...

On a somewhat unrelated matter, I am making my own false bottom
for all grain.  I've inverted a #4 gold screen cone coffee filter
and screwed it to a bucket bottom I cut off of another bucket.  I'll
just have to drill a hole for the outlet tube and I'm all set.  It
probably cost more than a surescreen, but the overall area
seems bigger, the geometry will prevent collapse, and it appeals
to my creative side.  I may take some pictures when I'm done and
post to the digest.

Finally, I have tried both sucking and blowing.  When I blew, for
some reason I cannot recall lost the siphon half way through.
Getting it started again was quite difficult once the headspace
was more than about 1 gallon in volume.  Now I suck with a turkey
baster and switch the turkey baster for a short racking cane once
the hose is full.  Couldn't be easier.

FWIW, this digest should be blocked by every paranoid
parental/corporate software known - sucking, blowing, unusual uses
for corn, the burradoo hilton, and to top it all off - balls in
water.  It's a wonder I'm able to receive the digest at all. ;)

	--drsmith

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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:41:16 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Beer on airplanes

Fred L. Johnson writes ...

>It finally dawned on me that the problem here is that the airline
>serves everything in cans

Including the passengers.  If they could squeeze in more passengers
or provide less service on these cattle cars with wings they would. I
think you missed the point Fred.  Airlines are trying to emulate the
passenger ship model with steerage' and first-class categories of
service.  In order to justify the ridiculous proposition that rental of
an extra 35% space for 3 hours plus a couple Sam Adam's are
worth an extra $1000  they must go out of their way to treat the
rabble in steerage poorly.  You'll probably see stewardesses
with cattle prods before you see a decent beer in steerage.

>What can we do about this?

You could pay 4-5X for your ticket and fly first class and
get a better choice of beverages, but I'm too frugal. BYOB
 -  a bold move, inconvenient and probably prohibited by
airline policy.  Drink enough at the airport bar that you
conck-out on the flight - not a bad plan for late flights.
You could get in the long line with folks who think that
airline service, policy and pricing models suck - but be
prepared to be ignored.

I find the ludicrously dry air and the lower pressure
to have an adverse effect on my ability taste and smell
anyway - but that's another matter.
 
>Drink wine?
True, the wine choices are often superior to the beer
choices. Still if they had Boddington's, Guinness, 
Bass in cans ...

 -S





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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:12:00 -0400
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: cap labels and bottle caps

I remeber someone posting a few years back with a supplier of 8.5" x 11"
sheets of .75" circular labels.  I couldn't find it in th archives.  Does
anyone still have the supplier's name, phone#, internet address.......?  I
want to use them for labeling my caps and my printer won't print on the
smaller Avery stickers.

Second, does anyone have a supplier for the thinner twist off bottle caps?


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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:10:35 GMT
From: "Sam Hernandez" <calbrewers at hotmail.com>
Subject: 2000 California State Fair Competition

I'm glad that I ran across this forum again, it has been a long time since I 
last read anything in here.

I would like to invite all California Homebrewers to submit entries in the 
2000 California State Fair Homebrew competition.

Entries are due between June 23 to July 7.
Finals are on July 16.

You can find more information and forms at: http://www.calbrewers.com

Sam Hernandez
________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:19:04 -0400
From: mmaceyka <mmaceyka at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Re: Blanche de Chambly yeast

The conspiracy theorist Graham Sanders asks about the yeast
cultured from Blanche
De Chambly...

    This beer is made in Chambly, Quebec by Unibroue.  They
make a fine line of
Belgian-style beers which are actually /imported/ into
Belgium.  Many of the beers have
a characteristic flavor, reminiscent to me of oranges (but
doesn't taste to me like
corriander or orange peel I have used in my own beers).  In
my conversation with the
distributor, he said the brewers told him that this flavor
is not from the yeast but
from a secret blend of spices, and that the same yeast is
used for all of their beers.
But he knew only what he was told, which became less and
less the more he drank...  My
tasting experiments suggest that the yeast is fairly
moderate and well balanced in
flavor when compared to average Belgian strains, even for
high gravity brews.  The
yeast is also probably fairly tolerant of ethanol.

    I am in the process of purifying the yeast from the a
bottle of Trois Pistoles,
another beer in their line, so I have yet to put it through
its paces.  I believe Steve
Alexander mentioned that he has used this yeast before, so
perhaps he can enlighten
us...


Mike Maceyka
Takoma Park, MD





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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:43:35 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: My yeast is having hot and cold flashes

Has anyone ever successfuly reused lager yeast to make a lager AFTER making a
steam beer?

I'm ready to make a Vienna except for yeast, maybe. I made a dopplebock
(1.085), saved the yeast and then used it to make a steam beer (big steam
1.065). The dopplebock fermented at 50F, yeast stored at 33F and the steam
beer is now fermenting at 73-75F. I'd take the Vienna back down to 50F, but
is it too late. Has the 74F temp mutated the yeast to something that wouldn't
produce the nice clean malt flavors found in a good Vienna?

Its Wyeast 2308.

Charley (needing yeast hormone therapy) in N. Cal.



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Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:38:16 CDT
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: super charged iodaphor

I just got a gallon of super iodophor from a friend of mine that owns a 
chemical company that distributes cleaners and sanitizers to rest, 
hospitals, food service, etc...
My regular homebrew shop iodopher is 1.8% good stuff and the balance is 
inert.  Water I would guess.  This gallon is 18.6% "alpha Omega 
hydroxypoly-iodine complex.  Below this in parath it states" (Providing 
1.75% titratable iodine)
Does this mean that this stuff is virtually the same as what I have or is 
this jug 9 times more potent than what I have been using?  Either way I am 
as happy as a fly in a fermenter to get this but I need to know at what 
concentration level to blend this.
Thanks for those that helped on the false bottom issue.  Think I'll yank the 
snake o' copper out of the boiler and try that in the mash tun.  I thought I 
would put the center pick up tube false bottom in the boiler then,,,, but 
that is going to put all the crub in the fermenter won't it?  I just can't 
win with this stupid perforated plate that I made. Frisbee golf anyone?
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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:49:20 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Saaz

Just to nit, Saaz in the homeland are called Zatec not Zatek, at 
least from my memory and map of the republic.  

Saaz are indeed wonderful, somewhat unique hops.  We use tons of em 
in Prima Pils.  Having said this, we just finished off a batch of 
pils that we called Black Forest Pils made exclusively with Tettnang 
Tettnangers, decoction mashed and unflitered.  A truly amazing beer, 
very reminiscent of the inspirational pils that I fell in love with 
in '91 called Vogelbrau from Karlshrue/Ettlingen, Germany.  I would 
encourage all pils loving homebrewers to try this out, a pretty 
simple beer in principal to produce but getting good whole Tettnangs 
are crucial.  (and if you are in the Baden-Wurttemberg/Bodensee area 
be sure to sample the excellent German pils make with Tettnangs).

Prost!

Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:11:2 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: Sulfur

The amount of sulfur depends on many factors, most important grain and
yeast. Sulfur is characteristic of high gravity brewing, actually
unavoidable.

More likely is your yeast.  Sometimes yeast metabolism shifts during
fermentation and you'll observe a high level of sulfur production.  In many
cases the sulfur will dissipate or be reabsorbed by the yeast.

If you notice sulfur flavor and aroma at unpleasant levels in you beer
close to the end of fermentation, hold your temp at 60 degrees F, if
possible (50 degrees for a lager).  This is what is called a sulfur rest. 
Many people in the industry use this trick.

All it does is trick the yeast into "thinking" that something is happening
or going to happen.  Many precursors for division contain a lot of sulfur. 
The yeast with then suck it up to "get ready"



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