HOMEBREW Digest #3351 Wed 14 June 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Stupid Brewer Tricks # 10476: 'A Watched Pot Never Boils' (Lance Levsen)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Aussie Rules forever ("Dave Edwards")
  A Chilled Pot Never Boils and other stupid human tricks (Crispy275)
  Signing off (OSULLS)
  Counter-Pressure (Lonzo McLaughlin)
  ballantine ale (Prestoniam)
  Corn Malting (Dave Burley)
  Re:HSA & Bud ("Philip J Wilcox")
  advice or opinion ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  mash out/foam/pH ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  HSA-An Issue or Not (Jim Bermingham)
  Fridge woes ("Jay Hummer")
  HSA and Partially Covered Boils (Richard Foote)
  dextrin & mouthfeel ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Mort O'Sullivan (rob.green1)
  Re: Signing off (Some Guy)
  Stupid brewer trick & fining question ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: HSA (Jim Adwell)
  Iodophor composition ("A.Carminati")
  Stupid chiller tricks (Frank Tutzauer)
  Vittle Vault (AJ)
  Re:Digital Scales for Hops (Jim Bentson)
  Kcal vs Cals in Fermentation Heat Generated (Jim Bentson)
  Filtering ("Whyman Dental Lab, Inc")
  fruit beers (Mike Foster)
  a little of everything (BIL2112L)
  fridge woes (fridgeguy)
  hop and trub removal (Clark)
  More HSA, Bud, and an Anecdote ("Peter Garofalo")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:49:38 -0600 From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com> Subject: Re: Stupid Brewer Tricks # 10476: 'A Watched Pot Never Boils' re: boiling a running chiller While not as fun as trying to boil while chilling, I was in a rush to finish a batch. I had a couple of people waiting and was explaining the process to them. This was before my burner so I was using the stove. I boiled the chiller no problem, and then proceeded to chill. Damned thing just wouldn't go down. I wasted gallons of water, all the while talking to these pe ople (my parents as fate would have it), one eye nervously watching the thermom enter wondering _why_ it wouldn't go down . . . . I left the stove on. Sigh. Cheers, lance Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:28:44 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report In Defense Of Honour... Gentlemen, and Ladies... We must remember...what all of this is about ...is Brewers Helping brewers... Otherwise...we are all just alone in our garages...... Jethro Gump Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:06:04 +0930 From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au> Subject: Aussie Rules forever | Mr. Yates wrote: | | On a final note of insult, Dave Edwards of South Australia talks on the | game | | of Aussie Rules - played by poofters and bandicoots. What relevance has | this | | to real Aussie men and dedicated beer drinkers? I hope Dave, you don't | | intend bringing the subject up with the crowd at the Burradoo Hilton, in | | short young man, you will be slaughtered! | | Surely such a proud Aussie such as yourself could take even a small amount | of pride in the fact that Aussie Rules is a 100% Australian owned and | operated game. It was invented here, it is played here, it is not some | bollox imported from merry old England. | | It is also a game whereby the national competition encompasses the vast | majority of the country. With Tassie to introduce a side in the coming years | it will be truly a NATIONAL competition, not something played mostly by two | states which are half infested with poisonous frogs and spiders. | | As for the poofters statement, please, one would hope that a debate about | the credentials of one's favourite football code would come down to more | than just insults. But if that's the way it's got to be my question is why | do those big, chunky, no-necked, rugby girls tape their heads up? What are | they trying to prevent from falling out of their ears? Or is it more that | they are trying to stop intelligent thought getting in? | | Ausie Rules for ever. | | GO THE CROWS! | | Oh yeah, beer is good. | | Cheers, | Dave. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:42:26 EDT From: Crispy275 at aol.com Subject: A Chilled Pot Never Boils and other stupid human tricks Jim wrote: "I must have been tired or something because it was a good 10 minutes, and the thermometer was reading about 170F, before I realized that the physics of the universe had not changed but that I had left the water valve on the chiller wide open, and 45F water was shooting thru the chiller at a rapid rate. I felt really stupid for a few seconds, and then had to laugh at the thought of me sitting there until the propane tank was empty, watching the pot that never boiled. Anyone else ever do this? Cheers, Jim" Jim - been there, done that. My friend Doug and I were brewing two summers ago and our tale is of even greater stupidity. You see, we had a straight 50' immersion chiller (oh Patrick B., do you ever want me to return this item?) that we set into the boil kettle the 15 minutes perscribed before knockout. Added the Irish Moss and the flavor hops. Now, how or why we turned this on I can't for the life of me remember. But seeing that I have a hot tub, and that usually I drain it the night before a brew so I can use the wort chiller water to "freshen" the tub, I had no idea that I had left it on. Very similar feeling of disconnect with the universe as I watched the temp decrease with 130k BTU roaring away. Another Crispy irreproducable brew. Here's another "Wad da fug" moment I will share. I was brewing last year and put in the wort chiller (now equipped with a on/off valve so I do not have to run 75' to the valve to turn on/off). Brew finished and I open the valve and watch the temp go down (isn't amazing how fast it goes from boil to 100o). Dum de dum dum. Say, it looks for lack of a better word, turbid in my boil kettle. As I was brewing my standard 12 gallon batch I was confused to see the boil kettle appeared to have 13+ gallons. A few minutes later and the temp is dropping and the wort level is now approaching the rim of the kettle! Yup, you guessed it. A pin hole leak in the chiller had occured and while it was chilling my brew it was also filling my kettle! Still fermented out fine (and no one was the wiser). Looking forward to the AHA National convention next week. Stop on by the F.O.R.D. table at the Beer Without Borders night and try my Beef Beerbongione made with barley Wine - I think it is a winner! Crispy Fry Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:03:27 +0100 From: OSULLS at uk.ibm.com Subject: Signing off Having been subscribed now for six months I am impressed with the logistics of the forum, and grateful to the administrators for running the show, but I'm afraid the level and amount of scientific trumpet blowing at every opportunity is hiding the real essence of homebrewing. Whilst I can appreciate peoples desire to strive for maximum consistency of a brew, and maximum understanding of higher brewing processes it is the very fact that commercial brewers went down that route that resulted in the disappearance of many of the 'real ales' that traditional homebrewers try to keep alive or resurrect. I would like to add this final, and in my opinion factual equation........more science=less traditional beer. Thanks and Regards Sean O'Sullivan UK. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:25:38 -0400 From: Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at dol.net> Subject: Counter-Pressure Does anyone have some good directions for building a CP bottle filler? I saw a couple of articles but most involved some cutting and soldering. It seems like there should be a series of compression fittings and 'T' pieces that can make up the device. Anyone own a hoptec filler and can explain all the pieces? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:04:48 EDT From: Prestoniam at aol.com Subject: ballantine ale In the early 60's I was stationed aboard the USS Forrestal at Norfolk. When on leave I learned to enjoy pretty women, and Ballantine ale. I would like to brew a clone of the ale from scratch. It had a certain taste that was different. I can't quite describe it, maybe from being in contact with wood, maybe it had rye in it, don't know. Can anyone provide a recipe for 5 gal? Charlie Preston in Mansfield, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:56:17 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Corn Malting Brewsters: Keith Menafy asks if anyone has ever thought about corn ( maize) malting. Although they don't do it today AFAIK, I'll bet Jim Beam, Jack Daniels and a lot of other Bourbon Whiskey and white lightnin' producers did! {8^) Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:03:27 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Re:HSA & Bud Glen Pannicke ponders the temps that bud air strips their beer at. While the higher ranked judges did the 2nd round of judging and the BOS at the MCAB II, Dr. Budwiper was busy at the podium explaining why budwiper was the greatest beer on earth. In his talk he described the entire process of the stripper, the why's, and during Q&A I directly asked him about HSA and stripping. He said not a problem on the hot side. Cold side yes, but hot side no. The purpose of the aeration was to remove these volatiles and their precursors. On the tour I again had the good fortune of having Dr. Budwiper as my tour guide. He took us through the vertically challenging brewery and we continued to pepper him with questions. I seem to remember him saying that the wort entered the top grant at about 180F from the whirlpool. By the end of the drop it was down to 160F. They didn't want to drop it further, so they went to using HOT STERILE AIR. Maybe that is a hint to the nature of our conundrum. Perhaps O2 pickup under 160F is what is bad and causes what we call HSA induced cardboard flavors?? I for one, haven't tasted cardboard in Budwiper, I remember stale beer odor/flavor from left-over kegs at frat parties...but the last time I remember have Bud was my first night of school my freshman year of college. My roommate scored a 6-pack of "tall-boys" and we ordered pizza...I distinctly remember us talking about how bad the Bud was compared with other beers we had had. I volunteered to make sure we got better beer next time, and so began my journey towards better beer. Frankenmuth was our beer of choice, (Thank you Fred Scheer where ever you are!!) Moosehead when we couldn't get the Frank, and Labatts when we were poor... I really mean no disrespect to the good Dr. whose name I totally can't remember. His knowledge of commercial beer making and beer chemical properties and relationships was very impressive. Even my roommate, with a Ph.D. in Chemistry of his own and some time working a commercial Beer lab was very impressed with the guys depth of knowledge and his ability to talk to people about it. What also didn't surprise me was that his hubris was proportional to AB's marketshare and at least as large as their marketing budget... If any of you doubt Pat, Peter's and my word or ability to remember the numbers correctly, maybe you should be attending these conferences? The next one is in two weeks in Livonia Michigan. Its the AHA National conference. If you want to discuss HSA and flavor impacts I am sure Morten Meilgaard, Fred Scheer and Ray Daniels will provide you an excellent panal of professional opinions to ask questions of! I hope to see you there! Phil Wilcox Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:25:54 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: advice or opinion Steve counters my opinion on what type of advice be posted, >>This seems to be an argument that people should not express their differing opinions because it somehow harms the listener. << Specifically in regards to the discussion at hand; frequently, 1 time a week perhaps, a new brewer asks about how to improve his all-grain efficiency. Which is more helpful?a) to say not worry about mash-out and lauter temperatures this won't help a lot to reach your goals or b) to recommend keeping the temperatures up and lautering at the oft recommended temp of 170 and see if this improves efficiency. Any *harm? no. Any help? doubtful. >>The way to insult a person's intelligence and restrict their decisions is to paternalistically decide what arguments they should or should not hear.<< My point exactly, thank you for your support. N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:25:49 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: mash out/foam/pH Steve maybe didn't understand my post on dextrinization of a mash saying >>If denaturing wasn't significant the alpha-:beta-amylase >product ratio would be the same at 60C as 75C and so would the >mix of saccharides.<< Nope, let me quote Tom Flores, a Masters of Brewing Science grad of UC Davis, "So over time during the mash, as alpha-amylase yields more and more dextrins, the beta amylase has more substrate on which to work."... "It is hard to say that beta-amylase activity will be expected to drop off at a particular temperature, because the thickness will determine what temperature activates maximum beta-amylase activity." >> and 78C is "mash off" (mashout). >71C isn't mashout and 75C is marginal, below text values.<< Mash-out is raising the saccharification temperature, for what ever end result the brewer desires. The particular temperature chosen for mash-out would be defined by the particular desires of the brewer._And_if mash-out is so inconsequential; how come you can find so many references of what the temperature should be? >>Equally, If people aren't peptidase resting then they are not >utilizing all the amino acids available for yeast growth - not needed >for high beer quality either.<< Apples and oranges; with todays more highly modified malts a peptidase rest can only serve to decrease beer quality. Decreased head retention, decreased mouthfeel, increased fusel production. >>Assuming that a certain protein in mash is equivalent to beer foam is >Del's >extrapolation that deserves challenge.<< Nope, that is the Beer Research Institutes _quantitative_measurements. >> but Del's terse description was misleading. >He failed to correct the misunderstanding in my response - his own fault.<< NO! I actually quoted the paper verbatim. I restated the text to make sure that *you could understand. Your fault, and to quote *you, "Little wonder that someone who cannot read or reason rejects my posts" >> The paper measures CPF and foam of sweet unboiled wort, not beer, right ?.<< Measured CPF of sweet wort, CPF and adhesion in finish beer in commercial sized trials. "Table II shows the effect of foam-active protien on foan adhesion in a commercial-scale trial. Glyco-protein rests of 20 min at 68C (test1) and 71C (test2) were compared. The foam active protein contents of the final beers were 54 mg/L in test 1 and 63 mg/L in test 2. The SHV (Schaumhaestvermoegen) values were 141 cm 2 in test 1 and 160 cm 2 in test 2. These results also confirmed that a rest >70C was effective in increasing the foam-active protein content and _improving_(emphasis mine) the foam adhesion. Conclusions The fluctuation of foam active protein in malt appeared to be mainly due to variations in the barley. The content of foam-active protein in barley was influenced by variety, producing region, and even the country. Foam active protein decreased drastically during germination. High kilning temperature has a negative effect on foam protein. Maintaining a temperature of >/=71C during the gly coprotein rest was effective in increasing the content of foam-active protein and _improving_(emphasis mine) foam adhesion." "Pub # J-1997-0102-05R -ASBC" I extrapolated nothing. These are the findings of real beer researchers. There is no point in me making up "pseudo-facts" to try to impress someone. I simply state the facts. >>Nathaniel chose to focus on pH. I agree that 120ppm of calcium > sulfate (but is that the experiment's method ?) should push the >wort towards brewing pH. But pH=5.5 and 2qt/lb isn't typical and >3qt/lb is just weird.<< I bought up pH because you poopooed the results saying the pH was unadjusted. Now you agree the 150 mg/L Ca++ adjusts the pH. 5.5 is not that atypical, and those people using a Gott cooler and boiling water infusions to mash out are reaching the 2 qt/lb so that's not terribly weird either, in fact it is especially applicable to them. I don't remember mentioning _anything_about 3qt/lb. The water/grist ratio in the experiment was 4:1. OK, first order kinetics would have the reaction rate slower at that dilution, which is a *possibility why the commercial-scale test reports an improvement with only a 20 minute rest at 71C. My very first statement still stands, a mash out at 71C+ improves head retention. You are trying very hard to explain that away but facts are facts. You have other questions that may be answered in Hubert's post in #3336. >>Please give a quote or retract this Del. I never challenged the >conclusion >of the Suntory study. I rejected Del's extrapolations of the result.<< I_extrapolated_nothing_. I reported the findings of the Beer Research Inst. You said the pH was unadjusted, the grist/water ratio is not normal, the grind was atypical. So you did try to refute the findings of the Inst. If congress mashes are so irrelevant then don't bother reading a malt analysis sheet, Cg/Fg differences are meaningless, S/T protein ratios are pointless, viscoscity numbers are useless. These come from a congress mash and have no bearing on real brewing situations...right? >>4/ I am NOT an advocate of no-mashout brewing in general, despite the mischaracterization.<< from #3273... >>The problem with no-mashout is not that the average extraction >extraction, but 4 times out of 5 the actual extraction change is quite >small. The lauter water temp is only responsible for a marginal >improvement in extraction, one we HBers can choose to ignore.<< I see you don't specifically denounce "mash out" but the effects are "quite small" yet at the same time "significant." So which is it? significant or quite small? The fallacy in your experiment is you altered a second parameter, the lauter rate. If all parameters were kept the same there would be some validity to your conclusion. I will be posting the results of another mash experiment currently ongoing. It should give some answers as to mash-out efficiency and attenuation. To remove the variable of lauter efficacy this is a "no sparge" test. 2 mashes performed, each from the same lot# of pale ale malt. The same grist weight =/- 1gram The same strike water amounts +/- 1 gram A common water/grist ratio of 1.5 w/w The same crush-2 passes through JSP fixed gap malt mill The crush performed individually for the 2 mashes to eliminate sifting/stratification of grits/husks The same sweet liquor volumes collected The same volumes "post boil" The same pitching rates for both samples The same yeast packet used for both samples The same total mash/grist exposure times The same water (city water) The only variable is one was not mashed out. If there are any falacies in this let me know so I can adjust the steps to something of your liking. Then I can repeat the test before typing up my results. Onward and upward N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:40:33 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: HSA-An Issue or Not John, You can't tell these West Texas Cowboys that they need to let the barleywines, Triples and Old Ales set a spell before you drink them. Remember they drink Lone Star Beer in Texas. The beers you mentioned do need to age and HSA could be a factor on their taste when mature. However, most beers can be, and if you make good beer and have lots of friends hanging around, will be consumed right after it has completed fermenting. Just look at the Baron, he has started making kit beer for all his visitors. They must have more taste than the local cowboys do. It doesn't take my guys a few beers before they can no longer tell one beer from another. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX www.angelfire.com/tx3/bermingham/brewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:55:10 -0700 From: "Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com> Subject: Fridge woes Dave Riedel asks: Not even 3 months after I got my fridge into a perfect set-up with temperature control, tap in the door etc, it has stopped working! More specifically, over a two-day period I watched the temperature rise to ambient room temp and stay there. The compressor seems to run (I can hear the usual fridge noise), but it's not cooling anything. There does seem to be a switch going on and off every once in a while, but nothing seems to change (fridge continues to run, anyway). . . - ---------------------------------------------------------------- One possibility is the compressor's cooling fan. The compressor has a thermal switch that turns it off when it gets too hot. If your compressor cooling fan has stopped working, the compressor will heat up quickly and shut off before it does any significant cooling. Turn your fridge off for a couple hours so the compressor will be nice and cool. Pull it away from the wall, take off the back cover and locate the compressor and fan. Turn it back on and see if the fan comes on with the compressor. If you hear the compressor running but the fan isn't, you probably have a bad fan. (Or, just call Forrest the Fridge Guy, and he can do it. My local appliance guy diagnosed this problem for me and replaced the fan for $60.) Good luck! - -- Jay Hummer ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:05:11 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: HSA and Partially Covered Boils OK I'm jumping into the fray. All this talk about lids and partially covered boils and more pronounced rolling boils and improved hop utilization and less evaporation and HSA (of course) got me to thinking I should share some info. Here's what we do at the Whistle Pig Brewery, aka my basement. As you are probably aware, it gets hot, damn hot here in GA. This fact led me to a bit of serendipity. I use a ss cone to cover my converted sanke kettle. It extends about 2" beyond the top around the circumferance of the kettle top. At the top of the cone is a 4" diameter outlet into which I slip a length of dryer vent pipe, then an 90 degree elbow, then another straight section to vent the steam out the top of a doublehung window. The top sash is pushed up to wedge the pipe against the top of the window to lock the whole thing in place. Steam, with its attendant heat and humidity is vented to the outside. I got the cone quite by accident. I happened to spy it when I was having some welding done at a sheet metal business. It was a cone that had been bent in a brake with just a haphazard opening. I had them weld a flange in the top to accept 4" sheet metal dryer vent pipe. Once I reach a stable kettle boil, the cone and vent pipe go on. With the cone on, I can add hops and Irish moss by using a long handled ss spoon. The spoon just fits through the handhold holes in the top of the sanke. Inserting the spoon followed by a quick flick of the wrist is all it takes. Volume loss through evaporation is unchanged at about 1.5 gallons for a 90 min. boil for my system. I wonder how the collective views this as as a way to minimize HSA during the boil. Each time I set up this contraption, I wonder what the neighbors might be thinking. "Ethel, thet thar Foote boy's got that still a goin' agin. Best call the revenuers!" Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA A bit south of Jeff Renner where it's hot, damn hot! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:38:49 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: dextrin & mouthfeel Dave Burley mentions, >>As the mouthfeel has little if anything to do with dextrin content ( discussed endlessly in past HBDs and in professional brewing literature) << Since all I have to evaluate is powdered malto-dextrin it is impossible to compare with "fresh from the vat" malt dextrin. The powder being produced from acid hydrolysis of native starch, it obviously is comparing any fresh food against its' processed conterpart. Some mouthfeel is detectable from processed M-D, but it is not an entirely pleasing mouthfeel. The conclusion that I see is that the dextrinous mash temperatures are producing increasing glyco-proteins levels, and as Hubert posted it is common for German's to use what they refered to as a "mouthfeel rest." The dextrins being coincidental with the glyco-proteins their total effect on mouthfeel is most likely cumulative. What is the concensus on whether or not dextrins are sweet? N.P.Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:07:36 -0400 From: rob.green1 at firstunion.com Subject: Mort O'Sullivan I was able to track down Mort's email address via a family friend. I just spoke with him on the phone and he authorized my sending it along. I hope to meet him personally within the next week over a pint or two. He may be reached at 'Morto at arca-tech.com'. Brew to live....live to brew Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:20:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Re: Signing off Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... In signing off, Sean O'Sullivan imparts... > Having been subscribed now for six months I am impressed with the logistics > of the forum, and grateful to the administrators for running the show, but > I'm afraid the level and amount of scientific trumpet blowing at every > opportunity is hiding the real essence of homebrewing. > Whilst I can appreciate peoples desire to strive for maximum consistency of > a brew, and maximum understanding of higher brewing processes it is the > very fact that commercial brewers went down that route that resulted in the > disappearance of many of the 'real ales' that traditional homebrewers try > to keep alive or resurrect. > > I would like to add this final, and in my opinion factual > equation........more science=less traditional beer. To which I feel oinclined to reply... I appreciate your sentiments, Sean; however, I must disagree with your reasoning and conclusion. The scientific approach to brewing is not what is causing many styles and real ales to perish. Nay - it's economics. And yes: science can be used to drive economy; however, I caution you not to confuse the two as you appear to have done. "Big Brewers" are not interested in consuming time and materials to do small batches of "niche" brews, as many of our favorites have become. They are interested in turning profits, and to turn profits they must efficiently brew and sell beer with the minimum outlay of capital. To efficiently sell beer, it must be the least offensive to the largest amount of beer consumers. (Sound familiar?) Scientific approach in the brewhouse simply allows them to optimise their production from their materials. The same optimisation can be done on our scale with the better ingredients we use to produce the styles and real ales shunned by the "Big Brewers". In the very least, it can improved your consistency in producing those beers - and that, I believe, is what is being pursued by many here. Think it over. - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:24:18 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Stupid brewer trick & fining question Here's a stupid brewer trick I did this weekend that actually worked out well for me: Having stainless equipment is a major plus because I'm so damn lazy. Transferring from the primary to secondary or keg is great when they're all cornys. It goes a little something like this: 1. Place the fermenter up on the table and the receiver on the floor 2. Connect both OUT posts together 3. Add a little CO2 pressure to the fermenter's IN post 4. Open the relief valve on the receiver to start flow 5. Open the pressure relief valve on the fermenter once the flow starts 6. Let gravity take over and save a bit of C02 Well, I don't trust the no-rinse sanitizers any farther than I can throw 'em. Sorry, but I don't remember Iodophor or bezosulfo-whojamawhatssit acid being one of the ingredients of the Reinheitsgebot. So I sanitize and then rinse with boiled water. But I always forget to boil water way ahead of time so that it has time to cool. Problem with glass. Not with stainless! So I sanitized my receiving corny with iodophor (30 minutes before I'm ready to transfer - LAZY!) and put the water on the boil. Boil is over. Receiving keg is emptied. What the heck. It's metal! It can handle the hot stuff. Pour, swish and dump. Put the lid on and do steps one and two as above. Hey! Beer's flowing! I didn't add any CO2 pressure! But I did inadvertently create a vacuum in the receiving keg once I put the top on and the air started cooling inside. I think I'll use this practice from now on however, I'll keep the relief valve open on the fermenter from the very beginning and I won't close the valve on the receiver until I'm hooked up and ready to create a vacuum and start the flow. I don't want the vacuum building up too strong and damaging the equipment. On another subject: Many books mention the use of PVPP (aka Polyclar AT or Nylon 66) to fine beer. Some sources state that it is filtered afterwards and others make no mention at all regarding filtering. But no where can I find anything that states it MUST be filtered out of the beer. Can proper settling times and racking procedures adequately leave this fining agent behind without carrring over into the finished product? I'd rather filter as a last resort. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:12:49 -0400 From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com> Subject: Re: HSA Alan Meeker writes: >>>> No, the difference, as I mentioned, is that there seems to be some gremlin who's job is to monitor my brewing activity and stir up very windy weather anytime I'm ready to boil. So, I've gone from indoor boiling in nice still air with "steam blankets" and all that jazz, to outdoor boiling where the surface of the boiling wort is getting a LOT of exposure to fresh changes of air. <<<< Perhaps you can boil a batch of wort outdoors, with the boiler *uncovered* and compare the resulting beer with beer you have made indoors, and report the results here, not that I think you'll find any differences that can be attributed to HSA. :) Good luck with boiling outside, Alan; I know the gremlin you mention well. I used to boil outdoors, and after braving the wind, hot sun, rain, cold, snow, and pesky flying creatures, finally realized it was time to move to the garage when a particulary strong gust blew out the flame on my ring burner. By this time I had quite an assortment of cobbled-up windscreens I had tried in a vain attempt to keep the flame under the pot where it belonged. I probably saved a lot of propane and decreased my contribution to global warming by moving inside, and I am certainly more comfortable brewing in my garage. Cheers, Jim Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:13:23 -0300 From: "A.Carminati" <carminat at email.com> Subject: Iodophor composition I've seen that Iodophor is made of 1.75% of Iodine and 18.75% of Phosforic Acid but I don't know if it's is true ! Here in Brazil the product sold as Iodophor is Iodine 2% and Potassium Ioditine (a solubilizant for Iodine). I just like to know if is adequate to use my local Iodophor or perhaps I must produce something else like written above ! Cheers ! Alexandre Carminati carminat at email.com fone: +55 51 3376272 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu> Subject: Stupid chiller tricks So I just post my tale of stupidity to rec.crafts.brewing when I read Jim Adwell's attempt at trying to bring his wort back up to a boil while running water through the chiller. I did the same thing but for backwards reasons. I was trying to chill my wort but kept the flame on. Took 40 minutes before my buddy pointed out what an idiot I was. frank Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:29:37 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Vittle Vault Mark wrote: >For those without access to a Pet Smart, these sound like the "World's Best >Food or Chemical Container" offered by US Plastics (Stock Number 75046, >www.usplastic.com). It is 14x14x20 inches, and has what appears to be a >"Gamma Seal" lid. Their price is $34.26, less 5% for 2, and 10% off for >four. A quick check of this web site confirms that these are indeed the same as the "Vittles Vault" (either that or someone is looking for a patent infringement suit). The discount is attractive. I ordered 4 more. Only question is what the shipping is going to turn out to be. Without the quantity discount I expect it would be about a wash with the PetSmart price. Next time you need a Nylabone check these out and then if you like them buy them from whomever is cheaper. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:53:33 -0400 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: Re:Digital Scales for Hops Recently "HopHead" wrote: >Does any one know of a source for a good scale for weighing hops? I >would prefer a digital model but anything will do. I bought a Pelouze digital postal scale ( Model PE5) a number of years ago at Staples. It has a 5 lbs or 2.2 kg range . It measures in ounces or grams selectable by a button. In oounces it measures to to the nearest 0.1 ounce. It is a little pricey at around $50 - $60 but we use it as a general kitchen scale, postage scale etc. It self-zeros on start-up so you can put an empty container on it, start it and just measure your hops or grain.It has an auto shutdown to save the 9V battery which lasts for at least a year for our usage of a few time s One problem I have with mine is that it reads 10% low, consistently from 0.2 oz to 5 lbs ( as validated with a set of lab quality "standard weights"). Usually these digital scales can be adjusted but I haven't tried. I just mentally add 10% to the readings or reduce my target number by 10% ( I know these two are not identical so to save bandwidth, please dont write in to tell me that) . Jim Bentson Centerport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:30:17 -0400 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: Kcal vs Cals in Fermentation Heat Generated Recently the following was posted; Can anyone out there resolve a discrepancy between two references? I am trying to find a reasonable estimate of the heat generated during fermentation. DeClerck's A Textbook of Brewing (Vol1, p. 420) provides a value of 178 calories/kg sugar. In contrast, MBAA's Practical Brewer (p. 165) provides an esitmate of 160 Kcal/KG sugar. The numerical values are reasonably close but I am really unclear on which units to believe. A three order of magnitude difference leads me to believe one is a typo, but which one? There are two different "calories" used in the different literatures. A "Thermal" calorie or gram-calorie used in physics and engineering is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree C. The "calories" in medical and food fields are actually Kcal or "kilogram-calories" or one thousand "Thermal" calories. My guess is that DeClerck is using cals in the food - medical sense and the Practical Brewer is using the engineering sense. However, to add to the confusion, I checked both Hough's "Malting & Brewing Science" pg 650 and the shorter book by Hough - " "The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing" pgs 115-116. They give numbers in the range of 6600 to 8000 KJ per kg of glucose equivalent. Using 4.186 Joules per calorie, that would convert to 1600 -1900 Kcal/kg of glucose. This is is ten times higher than your number from Practical Brewer!! The Practical Brewer number is actually listed as 160 Kcal/kg of extract. My reading is the same as yours that they mean fermentable extract which I believe equates to glucose equivalent but I dont know for sure. Do any of our resident bio-chemists have any clarifications here? Jim Bentson Centerport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:13:18 -0600 From: "Whyman Dental Lab, Inc" <whymandl at milehigh.net> Subject: Filtering Just for the record, the 1st place IPA and Strong Bitter at this years MCAB were push through a 5 micron canister filter and then force carbonated. Just thought you all might like to know. Happy brewing, Rog Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:56:22 -0400 From: Mike Foster <mike at asyoulikeit.org> Subject: fruit beers I usually use a lb. per gallon (rasberries mainly, but I've done one blueberry). I put the (fresh-frozen) fruit in a large hop sock (5 lbs fits perfect in the socks I get from the local brew store), and leave it in the primary for a week, removing the fruit when I rack the beer. I tried this without the hop sock once... A chunk of rasberry small enough to fit through my racking cane wound up partially clogging the dip tube of my corny keg. - -- Wolfger http://www.asyoulikeit.org/wolfger Why can't they let a girl marry three men, or as many as want her, and save all this trouble? - -- Lucy Westenra, from _Dracula_ by Bram Stoker Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:48:46 EDT From: BIL2112L at aol.com Subject: a little of everything Greetings! Props to all of you who responded to my Genny request! My only question is on the yeast type to use. I've narrowed it down to the following (all wyeast):2072,2035,1056,or 1272. Personally, I'm incline to go with the 2072 or 1272 but, any feedback would be appreciated. As for the posting concerning English ale yeasts I can only say this I've used Wyeast's # 1318 (London III) for brown ales as well as pale ales and (IMHO) I think it is the finest English strain available. Thanx to the bro' with the Rock clone- I too enjoy these kinds of beer (especially when the temps hit 90 degrees).Thats all I got. Thank-you. -Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:18:43 -0400 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: fridge woes Greetings folks, In HBD #3350, Dave Reidel laments his fridge's loss of cooling. My curiosity has been piqued by a line at the end of his post - "Dismantle all my electronics and hardware". Dave. What hardware and electronics were added to the fridge? Is this a frost-free model? I need more info in order to be of much help. Some fridges can sound like they're running when only the condenser and evaporator fans are running, and not the compressor. The switch heard once in a while might be a thermal overload if it clicks every minute or two. If so, the compressor may be damaged or the starter relay and/or capacitor could be bad. A click heard every few hours is likely to be the defrost timer - a common failure item. If the timer has been bypassed, or if the entire fridge is switched by an external temperature controller, the compressor might be running but the evaporator is iced up. Try unplugging the fridge for a day or so in a warm ambient and then plug it back in. If you have a puddle under the fridge and it now cools - that is the problem. Frost-free fridges should be continuously connected to power and all evaporator fans and defrost components allowed to function normally to prevent evaporator icing problems. Warmer fridge cabinet temperatures can be achieved by restricting air passages between the fridge and freezer compartments. Please send more info if this doesn't help. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:47:49 -0400 From: Clark <clark at capital.net> Subject: hop and trub removal Hi List, I was reading through Papazians "Home Brewers Companion" again, and the chapter on hop and trub removal caught my eye. I have been all grain brewing for my last six beers, and my usual procedure is to mash, sparge and boil in two kettles on a gas fired kitchen stove. At the end of the boil I transfer all of the boiled wort to the larger kettle. It is big enough to hold a 5 1/2 gallon batch, but not big enough to boil everything in. I then sit this covered kettle in a large plastic tub filled with cold well water. After several minutes I change the water, and do this three or four times until the wort is about 80 degrees warm. It takes about 40 minutes to cool the wort. I know, I know I need a wort chiller. After cooling, I pour the wort through a stainless strainer to remove the hops and hot break material. I let it fall into my fermentation pail to aerate, pitch and wait for the fun to start. Charlie seems to recommend removing the trub and hops before chilling. Is there a good reason for this procedure? Am I doing something wrong here? By filtering after cooling I don't lose any wort and upon transfer to the secondary my beer is generally very clear. I usually add Irish moss to my boils and I read recently that it should be reconstituted in water for a half hour before adding to the boil. Any feelings about this? By the way, my seven hop plants are growing very well in their second year. Our weather has been cool and very wet this year and they are green and lush. Lots of old cow manure and thick mulch probably helps too. The current string about old favorites brings to mind memories of Schlitz back in the early seventies. I always remember it as a good flavored beer until the formula changed or something and it just wasn't the same. Schlitz Dark was another favorite, rarely available, only on tap and one of the few beers my wife would even consider drinking. Were my eyes clouded by the haze of a cold glass or were these beers really that good? Any recipe thoughts for either out there? Thanks for the help. Dave Clark Eagle Bridge, New York Drinking less, but enjoying it more. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:20:07 -0400 From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com> Subject: More HSA, Bud, and an Anecdote Well, a nerve seems to be exposed. Now everyone remembers the perky but ill informed A-B tour guide, and that damned air column. I can only postulate that the wort is only briefly exposed, and thence heads directly to the chiller. I assume that even rapid reactions take more than the five seconds or so that the wort would be exposed. Also, perhaps HSA is not as important, for example, in a hopped wort (all those nice iso-alpha acids are present after the boil. All 12 IBU's, that is!). I did ask twice, and the answer was "air" every time. I can't say that I agree with Steve Alexander's assessment of Bud's stability, but I can't claim first-hand knowledge, either! I only know that a Bud in any city of the world tastes pretty much the same--for better or worse. And now for something completely different... During the tour, I was lagging in the rear with Andy Anderson, Jay Adams, Steve Stroud, and a couple of others whose names elude me. The aforementioned perky tour guide explained that a test batch was 10 barrels, and gee, they even collected the CO2 from these tiny batches for re-use elsewhere. Later in the tour, we were informed that only two cases of beer are kept for evaluation, and the remaining 9.5 barrels is sent to the Mississippi (in a roundabout way, I'm sure). This caused Steve Stroud to quip that the CO2 must therefore be more valuable than the beer. Of course, this was only in a stage whisper... Cheers, Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
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