---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Malt Colour ("Darren Robey")
  RE: Counter Pressure filling (Robert Arguello)
  A Chilled Pot Never Boils and other stupid human tricks (Ant Hayes)
  Spirit of Free Beer Competition results ("BRUCE T. BENNETT")
  fermenting in cornies ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE: Vittles Vault (stencil)
  Re: fining question (Jeff Renner)
  Schlitz (Jeff Renner)
  Siphoning easily & safely ("Keith Christian")
  Conehead boiler (Dave Burley)
  RE: fining question (Demonick)
  an open apology ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Trub Removal, and HSA (RCAYOT)
  Cream ale yeast ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Clip Art for Beer and Wine ("Michael O. Hanson")
  re: More HSA, Bud, and an Anecdote (Jeff McNally)
  re:Ballantyne ale? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  German Imports :  No Purity Law on label ("Norm Hardy")
  HSA and Partially Covered Boils ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  %*$(&# at  brewer tricks (fred_garvin)
  no-rinse sanitizer, vacuums in stainless, polyclar ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  BT Back Issues? ("Donald D. Lake")
  Schlitz (Bill.X.Wible)
  RE: fermenting in cornies ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  6 row malt ("Craig Lefevre")


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* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k

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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:29:59 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: Malt Colour



Heres what I hope might be a simple one. I see malt colour quoted on Degrees L
(lovibond) in most American brewing articles, but my homebrew shop here has ECB
as its units (or something like that). Anyhow what is the difference or
conversion factor?

TIA

Darren




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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:46:35 -0700
From: Robert Arguello <brewhawk at pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Counter Pressure filling

Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at dol.net>
asked about cp-fillers:

>Does anyone have some good directions for building a CP bottle filler?
>I saw a couple of articles but most involved some cutting and soldering.
>It seems like there should be a series of compression fittings and 'T' pieces
>that can make up the device.



Lonzo,
You might like to check out my article, design and diagrams on a
"hands-free" cp filler. It requires no soldering and virtually no cutting.

http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/cp_fill.htm

Robert Arguello
brewhawk at pacbell.net



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:15:35 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: A Chilled Pot Never Boils and other stupid human tricks

The Stupid Brewer trick of trying to chill a kettle with the heat turned on
raised a question.

In our club, the standard practice at the end of the boil is to whirlpool,
cover and let stand for 30 minutes, before chilling. Apart from making the
abovementioned stupid brewer trick unlikely, the theory is that this causes
the hot break to settle, avoiding getting a whole lot of the gunk into your
primary/ settling tank.

Is this not a common practice elsewhere?

Ant Hayes
Brewing where beer was invented.


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:30:55 -0400
From: "BRUCE T. BENNETT" <btbennet at erols.com>
Subject: Spirit of Free Beer Competition results

The Brewer's United for Real Potables (BURP) is pleased to announce the
results of the Eight Annual Spirit of Free Beer And the MCAB Qualifiers.
The Competition was host by Jerry Bailey and the Old Dominion Brewing
Company in Ashburn, VA.
The winners may be found at WWW.Burp.org in the Spirit of Free Beer frame.

Regards

Bruce T. Bennett
Competition Organizer 


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:28:37 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: fermenting in cornies

Glen Pannicke discusses his stupid brewer trick that turns out to be
serendipitous, relating to transferring from corny to corny being used as
fermenters. Stupid brewer tricks are very entertaining, and when they turn out
to have a serendipitous ending that's a big plus. I'll relate a stupid brewer
trick with a good ending in a moment, but let me ask Glen (and the rest of
you) a couple of questions first.

Recently I have been thinking about fermenting in cornies. There seem to be a
couple of attractive features - you can fit more fermenting beer into a
fermentation fridge, you don't have to worry about breakage, easy sanitation,
transfer from primary secondary or at bottling is sanitary and not exposed to
oxidation, etc. Ok, all sounds good so far. I like to be able to watch the
fermentation proceed in the glass carboy, but I'll  manage to live without
that.

But a couple of questions occur to me. First of all, what do you do about a
fermentation lock and/or blow-off? I know some people just remove the poppet
valve and put a tube over the stem. Seems to me that this could be plugged up
by blow-off fairly easily. And what size batches do you brew and how many
cornies do you use? Seems that a five gal batch would fill a corny pretty
close to the top (or a 10 gal batch would fill 2 cornies) and so blow-off
would be a big problem through a small opening. If you left more head room
this wouldn't be as much of a problem but you either loose beer or use extra
fermenters with lots of head space?

Also, have you cut the beer-out dip tube? and if so, how much? Seems like trub
at the bottom of the primary varies considerably from batch to batch -
depending on beer style, yeast used, etc, etc. How do you handle this? I'm
sure there are other issues (both problems and benefits) that I haven't
thought of. I'd be very interested in the thoughts and experiences of any of
you who are using cornies as fermenters. I'm almost there - just need a little
convincing and your answers could help.

Now on to the serendipitous stupid brewers trick - the other night at a
homebrew club meeting, a brewer brought out a brown ale that had hazel nut
extract added at bottling. Many of you probably remember the Sam Adams
Longshot from a few years back. Well, having lived in Alvadore, Or. in the
middle of a filbert (hazel nut) orchard, I decided to try a batch. However, I
thought that the Longshot was way over the top as to flavor, so I decided to
only use half the recommended amount of hazelnut extract.

I had two batches in the fermenters at the same time, the brown ale and a
porter. They weren't labeled - not necessary, I knew which was which, right?
I'm sure you can see where this is headed. When I got around to bottling, I'd
had a homebrew (or several) and was relaxed enough that I grabbed the wrong
carboy. I realized what I had done, but not until it was already in the
bottling bucket and had the extract added to it. Ok, hazelnut porter didn't
sound like too bad a possibility and I still had the other half of the extract
for the brown ale. Ok, I'm a stupid brewer but maybe this wasn't a totally bad
thing.

I bottled the brown ale the next week, waited a few weeks and sampled them
both. They were ok, in fact some of the people that tried them really loved
them both - but I didn't. To my taste the hazel nut flavor was still too
strong and had an extract quality to it. Well, I still drank a bunch of it,
gave away a bunch as gifts and it all disappeared - or so I thought. About a
year later, I found a few bottles of the hazelnut porter hidden at the back of
the bottom shelf of my beer storage fridge. This is the serendipitous part -
it had aged and mellowed into something truly wonderful. The hazelnut flavor
had almost disappeared but in the process it had blended with the roasty,
malty porter into a really earthy balanced flavor that was absolutely
incredible. Unfortunately, there were now only a couple of bottles left, but I
really enjoyed them while reflecting on my stupid brewer trick that turned out
well in the end. I've never tried to recreate this brew, but I do think about
it from time to time.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:04:42 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: RE: Vittles Vault

On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:10:39 -0400,
homebrew-request@hbd.org (Request Address Only - No
Articles) wrote:

>------------------------------
 Mark_Ohrstrom says:
>
>AJ reports that he (AJ, not the puppy) "... saw the "Vittle Vault"
>in Pet Smart  ... It's a more or less rectangular "bottle" with a
>large screw-on plug-like top. ... A bit pricey at $39 but they
>look as if they'll really do he job. Seem to be stackable too."
>
>For those without access to a Pet Smart, these sound like the "World's Best
>Food or Chemical Container" offered by US Plastics (Stock Number 75046,
>www.usplastic.com).  It is 14x14x20 inches, and has what appears to be a
>"Gamma Seal" lid.  Their price is $34.26, less 5% for 2, and 10% off for
>four.
>
>I use the Gamma Seal lids on 5 gal buckets for the same purpose, with ~25lb
>of grain in each.  I prefer the mobility of the buckets, and they stack
>too.

Sportsman's Guide <http://www.sportsmansguide.com/>, usual
disclaimers apply, has been marketing these as "Y2K Grain
Vault" for $US20.00.  They come with paperwork indicating
GammaSeal (no web presence) as the mfgr.  I have two.
They make *superb* fermenters.  Since I fined up my crush
and implemented continuous agitation (a wooden propellor
driven by a hand drill in a bracket) I've been able to get
6 to 7-gal runs of 1.050 cooled wort from the 20-qt stock
pot that I mash in;  too much for the usual 6.5-gal bucket
or carboy ("smaller batch?"  ...b-but then I'd have less
beer.)  The GrainVaults' square shoulders make really
convenient locations for holes for airlocks, siphon tubes,
and so on.  Nice product, even at $35.

stencil sends
RKBA!


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:24:15 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: fining question

"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> writes

>Many books mention the use of PVPP (aka Polyclar AT or Nylon 66) to fine
>beer.  Some sources state that it is filtered afterwards and others make no
>mention at all regarding filtering.  But no where can I find anything that
>states it MUST be filtered out of the beer.  Can proper settling times and
>racking procedures adequately leave this fining agent behind without
>carrring over into the finished product?  I'd rather filter as a last
>resort.

It will settle out fine and you can leave it behind.  I've done it.  I
suspect you'll never get it all out, but I'll bet it's food grade and
non-reactive anyway.

Hoever, do be sure to stir it into some water first or you'll perform
another stupid brewers trick.  I once put some in dry into a carboy of cold
beer that was saturated with CO2.  Beer Vesuvius!  And there was no way to
stop it.  I put my hand over the carboy neck, but that was futile.
Fortunately it was in the garage.  I just carried it outside and waited for
it to subside.  I guess I lost a gallon or more.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:40:40 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Schlitz

Dave Clark <clark at capital.net> of Eagle Bridge, New York (thanks for
remembering to say where you're from, wish everyone would remember) writes:

>The current string about old favorites brings to mind memories of Schlitz
>back in the early seventies.  I always remember it as a good flavored beer
>until the formula changed or something and it just wasn't the same.
>Schlitz Dark was another favorite, rarely available, only on tap and one of
>the few beers my wife would even consider drinking.  Were my eyes clouded
>by the haze of a cold glass or were these beers really that good?  Any
>recipe thoughts for either out there?  Thanks for the help.

Schlitz was my beer of choice back in the late 60's, too.  can't say why,
but I convinced a friend's father who owned a restaurant and bar in
northern Michigan to switch his tap to Schlitz, and it went over well with
his patrons.

Kirby Nelson of Capital brewing in Middleton, WI, developed a recipe for
the WI sesquisentennial and "Great Taste of the Midwest" beer festival in
summer, 1998 from old Schlitz logs (I think, he would only hint very
broadly last time I  asked, but I think that's what I heard earlier).  They
subsequently brought out a similar beer as part of their regular year
'round lineup called "Capital 1900," although the recipe is not that old.
Anyway, as they make it now, it's 1.052, 30% white corn grits (somewhat
unusual), 22 IBU, all German hops (the one in 1998 used Cluster bittering
hops, I think.  You can get white grits at the grocery store - don't get
the instant ones.  Unfortunately, they're fortified with iron, which may be
a problem.  Or you could use yellow corn meal, which I prefer, or flakes if
you don't want to do a cereal mash.

My guess is that Schlitz of thirty years ago may have been more like 1.044
or 46 and 18 IBU.  BTW, I occasionally buy a 40 oz. Schlitz.  It's way more
tasty than the standard run-of-the swill.  I understand that they went back
to their earlier recipe after sales dropped.  However, I have a sneaky
suspicion that they may use corn syrup.  Just a suspicion based on the low
cost of the beer, nothing else.

Good luck.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:10:22 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Siphoning easily & safely

	
HBDers,

I am a bit behind on my HBDs but I want to share 
my method of siphoning from primary to secondary 
or kegs.  

1. Place regular racking cane  in vessel with beer.
2. Place receiving end of the cane in carboy with the 
carboy cap.  It has 2 wholes.  The racking cane is 
going through one whole and simply hook up some 
3/8 tubing on the other.  Suck on the tube and you 
get a siphon started without ever blowing into the 
vessel holding the beer.  Of course the tubing is not 
really necessary because you could actually suck on 
the cap to get the siphon started.
3. It is helpful to place your finger over the end of 
the tube until the siphon is going.
If racking into a keg, I will put the carboy cap on a 
sanitized jar or flask that  will make a seal on the 
cap, draw the air out by sucking on the carboy cap, 
and then you have a sample for your hydrometer.  
When you have enough beer in the flask, 
disconnect the cap from the flask, push the tubing 
through the cap so the bottom will reach the bottom 
of the keg , and  carefully crimp the tubing  and 
place in the bottom corner of the keg and let the 
siphon begin  slowly.  I keep the keg tilted and  
make sure the receiving end is below the surface of 
the vessel that you are racking from.

Works great and no hassles.  I actually have a 
carboy cap on both ends of the racking cane.  
Once in a while I will push beer out of a carboy 
with CO2, but it is not very safe putting a carboy 
under pressure ;-O.

Keith Christian
Chatsworth CA
Maltose Falcons




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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:34:08 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Conehead boiler

Brewsters:

Rick Foote explains his technique of placing a SS cone over the kettle and
directing steam outside his GA basement through a vent pipe.

I once make such a cone from aluminum foil in my early days of playing with
the idea of a steam jet and eliminating the air from the kettle surface (
as in  a commercial brewery kettle) but found the partial lid covering to
be easier and just as efffective.

One problem with using such an apparatur with exit pipe as Rick describes
is that condensed steam may drip back into the kettle ( and carry oil and
other bad stuff)  unless some care is taken. You may wish to consider a
small stove hood, but the same dripping problem may occur, so provide a
means of preventing drip back into the kettle. 

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:39:24 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: RE: fining question

"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> asks in HBD 3351
>Many books mention the use of PVPP (aka Polyclar AT or Nylon 66) to
>fine beer.  Some sources state that it is filtered afterwards and
>others make no mention at all regarding filtering.  But no where can
>I find anything that states it MUST be filtered out of the beer.  Can
>proper settling times and racking procedures adequately leave this
>fining agent behind without carrring over into the finished product?  
>I'd rather filter as a last resort.

I've used PVPP (Polyclar) a few times and have never filtered.  Let it
stand a few days and all the PVPP will settle out and stick in the
other gunk.  The few times I've used it I added it just after racking
to the secondary and never thought about it again.  A week later I
resumed my normal process.  PVPP is inert, tasteless, and biologically
harmless in the amounts of which we are speaking.  Any left in the
brew will go unnoticed by your palate and your bowels.  :-)

PVPP electrostatically binds to polyphenol polymers (tannins), and
drops them out of solution.  Polyphenols tend to oxidize and
subsequently polymerize (or is it polymerize and subsequently
oxidize?) darkening the brew and if there is enough of it creating a
chill haze.  PVPP was originally used to lighten white wines, and
using PVPP will lighten a brew a bit, and greatly reduce the tendency
to chill haze.  Use about 2 tablespoons per 5 gallon batch.  I boil it
in a little water and let it cool then add it to the carboy.  Others
just sprinkle.  Other than the sanitation issue, the major issue is
dispersion.  You want the PVPP to disperse throughout the fermenter,
not fall to the bottom of the carboy in a clump, so whether you
disperse it by suspending it in water or by using a fine pore salt
shaker is probably irrelevant.

Beware the effervescence!  Polyclar is a very fine nucleation source
for CO2 bubbles, so it can cause a massive, sudden release of CO2.
If the headspace in your ferenter is inadequate you may foam over. 
You may want to rouse your yeast a few times before using the PVPP.

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com

FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or 
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't 
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:39:07 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: an open apology

Apologies to all for the long running debate inre-mashout/foam.
I let someone push my button. Everything  I posted
was done in the spirit of the digest and that is to offer information
that should improve someones homebrewing results. I would not
post something that did not have tested validity behind it or was
based purely on speculation. What good would that do for the newbies
that are just seeking a guiding word or two? 
Again, I apologize, and don't let the science scare you away from brewing.
Be as scientific or as unscientific as _you_ feel suits your brewing needs.
And for your further reading pleasure:
No I won't be posting the results of my mash-out vs no  mash-out
experiment.
That decision is spurred by a private email I received and it matters not
what the results are.
 
N.P. Lansing


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Date: 14 Jun 2000 09:04:42 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Trub Removal, and HSA

     Regarding
     CLark: <clark at capital.net>
     Subject: hop and trub removal
     
     Clark asks about hop and trub removal and described  his procedure. 
      I would recommend that you (of course) use an immersion wort 
     chiller, but for the next time you brew try the following.
     
     1.  When the pot containing your finished wort is placed in the tub 
     of cold water to chill, stir the wort to make a whirlpool, and then 
     allow to settle and do not disturb (almost typed disTRUB!!).  This 
     will force the solids to settle in a big pile in the center of the 
     bottom of the pot.
     
     2. Get yourself a racking cane and wrap a piece of copper or 
     stainless steel "chore boy" (that curly ribbony thing they sell for 
     scrubbing pots) and siphon the beer out of the pot through this.  
     If you are using whole hops or ~~50% whole hops (instead of or with 
     pelletized hops) then you will be able to siphon your wort off of 
     the trub and hops with little trouble.
     
     3. Allow the wort to cool well below 80F before pitching your 
     yeast.  I know this will take a little more time but it will be 
     worth your wait, give you a less volatile fermentation and cleaner 
     taste.
     
     4. Make sure you pitch enough yeast, either 15g of rehydrated dry 
     yeast, or a stepped up (at least once preferably more) liquid 
     yeast.  For a beginner, the easiest way to get pitchable quantity 
     of yeast is to use dry yeast.
     
     5. You can aerate the beer when siphoning by attaching a "venturi" 
     type thing at the end of the siphon hose on the outlet side, this 
     thing has small holes drilled in it and when the CHILLED wort goes 
     through it, it sucks air in through the holes via the venturi 
     effect, and will aerate your beer.  Not enough aeration mind you 
     but at least as good as you are going to get with your current 
     practice.
     
     Good luck brewing CLark!
     
     On to HSA.
     
     Some comments on HSA, first the Bud thing.  I really don't taste a 
     lot of Bud, but I do have one on occasion, especially when I know 
     it is probably fresh and well kept.  Under these conditions Bud 
     never tastes oxidized to me, no cardboard, just clean fresh 
     mini-taste.  And there is the problem, there has to be SOMETHING in 
     the beer to generate the stalling, in beers like Bud, there is 
     precious little of anything left to go bad!  Maybe if one took a 
     really nice Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and ran it through one of these 
     things it would generate much more of a bad result because there 
     are things in SNPA that can generate the stalling compounds.
     
     How about a little discussion about what stalling really is?  It is 
     my understanding that Stalling has to do with the redox potential 
     of the beer.  HSA causes the beer to be somewhat more oxidized than 
     without.  After a long time these oxidized compounds become reduced 
     by oxidizing other compounds.  The presence of yeast tends to 
     moderate this somewhat by acting as a redox buffer.  The resulting 
     stalling compounds have undesirable flavors, and tend to be 
     recognizable as defects.  These reactions take time to occur, and 
     the rate is effected by the temperature that the beer is stored at. 
      Therefore Stalling is usually a problem with sterile (by 
     pasteurization or sterile filtration to remove all yeast) packaged 
     and stored under non-refrigerated conditions for some time.  This 
     does not really sound like most home-brew processes I know.  I 
     store all my beer under refrigeration now in kegs, with a small 
     amount of yeast present.  Still, after about three months, a nice 
     clean lager begins to have perceptible stalling flavors.  Bottled 
     beer stored in my old cellar (how I miss it!) would last almost six 
     months before evidence of stalling flavors.  This is with my normal 
     brewing procedure that has no particular HSA nor any drastic 
     measures to prevent HSA.  I often transfer hot mash from pot to 
     lauter tun, probably the greatest HSA exposure in my procedures, 
     except when decoction mashing where I transfer boiling mash from 
     the pot back to the mash and stir it in.
     
     Any one else have some thoughts on their experiences, or 
     understanding of STALLING, not HSA in particular?
     
     Roger Ayotte



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:52:11 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cream ale yeast

Bill2112 asked  >>I've narrowed it down to the following 
(all wyeast):2072,2035,1056,or 1272. Personally, I'm incline to go with the

2072 or 1272 but, any feedback would be appreciated. <<

 The coupla times I've tasted beers from 1272 I've though it would make a
nice cream-ale, since it sorta has a "creamy" soft finish. 1056 it right
out,
not enough character for a cream-ale in my opinion, but it may work in
your brewhouse. The only objection I have against a real lager strain is
the increased fusel production at the elevated temperatures, if you don't
suffer fusel headaches the lager strain would be the historically correct
way to go.

N.P. Lansing


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:08:29 -0500
From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson at winternet.com>
Subject: Clip Art for Beer and Wine

Does anybody out there know where I can find clip art related to brewing
and winemaking?

Thanks,


Mike Hanson, President
Hanson's Hobby Homebrewing, Inc.
http://www.homebrewery-mn.com



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff McNally)
Subject: re: More HSA, Bud, and an Anecdote


Hi All,

  Lots of discussion lately about HSA and the "stripper" columns at A-B.

  If my memmory serves me correctly, is'nt HSA associated with oxidation
reactions with the melanoidins in wort?  I don't imagine that there are
many melanoidins in Bud, so this may be why HSA is'nt that big a deal for
A-B and Bud.

  Also, does anyone know what ever happened to the guy who smashed his hand
in the doors of the freight evelator while on the tour of the A-B pilot
brewery?  I wonder if he now owns a bunch of A-B stock?

  BTW, Phil, the A-B guy who gave the presentations and tours was named
Steve Michlak (sp?, sounds like mish-lack).

                                                    Hoppy brewing,

                                                    Jeff

==========================================================================

Geoffrey A. McNally                  Phone:  (401) 832-1390
Mechanical Engineer                  Fax:    (401) 832-7250
Naval Undersea Warfare Center        email:
Systems Development Branch              mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Code 8321; Bldg. 1246/2              WWW:
Newport, RI  02841-1708                 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:09:56 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:Ballantyne ale?

Prestoniam asks for a Ballantyne ale recipe; here's a recipe
for there IPA that should get you in the ballpark. This is reduced
from a 420 barrel batch and scaling doesn't always work well
but....

6.7 lb pale malt
0.7 lb caramel malt (I'd try 40L)
1.9 lb corn grits
2.9 lb invert or corn syrup
 .8 oz bullion or tettnang -bitterness
1.2 oz cluster-flavor
0.2 oz Saaz-aroma
     1056 is the Ballantyne yeast

If you need an extract version email me I can crunch this through to
something similar from extract.

N.P. Lansing


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:13:42 -0700
From: "Norm Hardy" <nhardy at connectexpress.com>
Subject: German Imports :  No Purity Law on label

I know that, some years ago, the EU forced Germany to accept "chemical" and
"adjunct" beers into the German market.

I also know that the German brewers agreed to abide by the Reinheitsgebot
Law in their own land.  Is this still true?

But I just learned that the USA gets German beers that don't have to and
probably aren't based on the old German (Bavarian) Purity Law.  Warsteiner
and Paulaner bottles have no mention of it.  Becks and St. Pauli Girl do,
but I was told to not believe it.

The beer/wine manager of a very trendy Thriftway supermarket in Seattle said
that he read in his trade journals that Germany no longer accepts returns on
beers it exports abroad.  They aren't allowed to sell them in the
fatherland.

If it is true, what are the German breweries now putting into the beer?

The manager also said that beer sales are down 50% from their heydey here in
the land of Redhook and Pyramid (and Starbucks).

Any comments about the German bottles coming in to your town?

ND Hardy
Seattle, WA



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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:53:25 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: HSA and Partially Covered Boils

In HBD #3351 Richard Foote described his super sweet cone & vent system:

>Volume loss through evaporation is unchanged  at  about 1.5 gallons for a 90
>min. boil for my system.  I wonder how the collective views this as as a
>way to minimize HSA during the boil.

I haven't bothered to quantify my change in evaporation rate by using a
partially covered boil, but it does appear to have slowed it down a bit.
But maybe it's an insignificant amount or I'm only looking at the low end of
the variability... but it's been a few brews now.  I can say for certain
that it takes less time for my stove to get the pots a boilin', the boil
does roll more violently and the kitchen is less hot.  The cover keeps a
decent amount of heat from escaping by reducing the amount open surface
area.  As for the vent, the cover is only cracked to the side allowing
about a 1" gap between one side and the cover.

Now I would have expected your system's evaporation rate to decrease with
the use of the cone.  You should be getting some reflux of the steam through
that cone and bend.  I know I'm getting it on my lid.  But some people want
a good rate anyway to reduce that volume down to size in a reasonable amount
of time.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:59:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: fred_garvin at fan.com
Subject: %*$(&# at  brewer tricks

I tried my hand at a triple decoction 
Octoberfest last weekend.  Things went
 quite well.  The wort tasted 
wonderfull, hit my post boil gravity 
and volume.  

I then started the 
chilling process with my immersion 
chiller.  I soon hit 80F.  I checked 
the pot, things looked good.  I thought
 "I'll take her down to 70 before I 
rack to the settling jug."  5 minutes 
later, the temp was at 65.  "Wow!" I 
thought.  "What good Chiller 
performance!"  I lifted the lid on my 
1/2 barrel Sanke, but instead of seeing
5 gallons of chillin' wort, I saw 10 
gallons!  

After about 15 seconds of mental
vaporlock, I ripped out the offending 
chiller, and sent it sprawling down the 
driveway amidst a barrage of profanities 
a longshoreman would be proud of.  After 
apologizing to my neighbors and my 
chiller (and Alan Tallman), I put the 
frickin' keg back on the burner, and 
torched it for another 5 hours.  

At 5am,  I threw in some flavor hops and 
hit the sack.  By noon the next day, it 
was at 100F  I let it cool to 80, racked 
it to a fermenter, and pitched a few 
packs of backup Danstar Windsor.  

The wort had an 
interesting smokey flavor.  It might turn 
out to be a good wee scotch ale.  I 
re-did the Octoberfest the next day, and 
fed it to the waiting Ayinger culture 
sitting patiently in the fridge.

I think it's going to be better than the 
Octoberfest.

Fred (See you at the Primetime Brewers
AHA Hospitality table) Garvin
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI

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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:13:32 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: no-rinse sanitizer, vacuums in stainless, polyclar

Glen writes:

"I don't trust the no-rinse sanitizers any farther than I can throw
'em.  Sorry, but I don't remember Iodophor or bezosulfo-whojamawhatssit acid
being one of the ingredients of the Reinheitsgebot"

Then again, neither was yeast...

I sympathize with Glen, I don't like anything "furren" in my beer, but I
think it's really a minute amount of acid/foaming agent that remains. Akin
to the amount of seaweed (Irish moss), or fish guts (isinglass) that may
remain after fining, not worth worrying about.

Speaking of fining, Glen mentions using PVPP (aka Polyclar AT or Nylon 66)
to fine.  I'm positive this isn't in the Reinheitsgebot either.  But it's a
fine example of the wonderful diversity in procedure that's in the homebrew
community. I'd rather not dump nylon in my beer, but I have no problem with
StarSan. FWIW, everything I have read indicates PVPP must be filtered.  And
I won't filter my beer, so I haven't actually tried it. (I see some MCAB
winners were filtered though -maybe it's time to re-evaluate filtration).
Maybe someone has tried Polyclar without filtration?

As an aside, Glen also writes about using his corny kegs as
primary/secondary:
"But I did inadvertently create a vacuum in the receiving keg once I put the
top on and
the air started cooling inside....I don't want the vacuum building up too
strong and damaging
the equipment."
That's a great system, but I think the SS and pressure hoses can handle the
minor vacuum that will be created by cooling air. It's a handy and easy way
to start a vacuum!

cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com







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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:15:09 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: BT Back Issues?

I just love pulling out old issues of Brewing Techniques to read.  Boy,
I sure miss that overly-technical, narrowly-niched magazine.

What's the status of all you folks who ordered back issues after BT went
"kaputt"?  Did you receive them or are you still waiting?  Are they
still offering the back issues?  I was about to order online sometime
ago and held off because of many posts complaining that the orders were
not being filled.

Don Lake
Windermere Brewing Co
(division of Lake Water Brewery, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal
Water Beverages, Inc)


It takes a big man to cry....but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that
man.
        - Jack Handy





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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:15:27 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Schlitz




Clark <clark at capital.net> wrote:
>The current string about old favorites brings to mind memories of Schlitz
>back in the early seventies.  I always remember it as a good flavored beer
>until the formula changed or something and it just wasn't the same.

There is a good write up about this in the book called "Beer Blast".
It really wasn't a formula change.  The story goes that Schlitz was trying to
save money and kept shortening their lagering time.

It talks about saving money or trying to just make more by shortening the
lagering time.  They kept cutting a day here, a day there, and it really added
up.  It wasn't noticed because the changes were so gradual.  If you were to
go from 8 weeks of lagering to 4 weeks, you would notice the difference
immediately.  But when you go 8 weeks to 7 weeks to 6 weeks to 5 1/2
weeks to 4 1/2 weeks to 4 weeks, the changes are so gradual that they
aren't noticeable.

The book says it got to the point that people were finding little green bits
of goo that looked like mucus in the beer, and it really turned people off.
(It was yeast sediment)  Once a commercial brewery loses customers
due to quality, it supposedly takes an entire generation to get  them back.
Schlitz lost customers due to poor quality beer, and they  never recovered.

So greed, not recipe formulation, was Schlitz's ultimate downfall - or so the
book says.  It's worth reading.

Bill




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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:47:33 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: RE: fermenting in cornies

In HBD #3352 Mark Tumarkin had some good questions about fermenting in corny
kegs:
(Hey I got cc:'ed on the submission)

>Recently I have been thinking about fermenting in cornies.
>  {snip}
>I like to be able to watch the fermentation proceed in the glass 
>carboy, but I'll  manage to live without that.

This is the only thing I hate about stainless :-(

> First of all, what do you do about a fermentation lock and/or blow-off?

The tube over the open post will work.  Place a long tube blow-off into a
jar or short tube to accept a fermentation lock.  I use the latter for a
dedicated lagering keg (one post is cross-threaded and therefore useless to
serve with).  You're right, plugging the blow-off can be a problem with the
small diameter hole.  If you don't want to remove the post, then adapt a
lock to a quick disconnect with a plastic elbow on the hose end of the
disconnect.  The lock can simply be snapped on or off, but watch plugging!
Also, two of my kegs have lids with a removable relief valve which is wide
enough to accept a rubber stopper.  I never knew there were so many
different types!  Remove the relief valve and stick a drilled stopper and
lock in it's place.  I find this works best for my use.  Sanitize the valve
and replace it when you want to do a pressurized transfer.

>Seems to me that this could be plugged up
> >by blow-off fairly easily. And what size batches do you brew and how many
> >cornies do you use? 
> 
Most people keep around 20% headspace and that should be enough to prevent
plugging.  For a 5-gallon brewer, this means you need a bigger corny or a
smaller batch.  I was able to get a 10 gal corny which allowed me to
increase my batch size to 8 gallons.  I then wind up splitting it to lager
with 4 gallons each in two 5-gallon cornies or packaging in one 5-gallon
corny and two mini-kegs.  Sometimes I'll have a bit left for a few bottles
too.  Priming these few bottles can be difficult, but not if you use
something like Primetabs.  It may sound like a plug, but after testing these
myself, I'm convinced they're the best - no - ONLY solution to properly
prime only a few bottles.  Who wants to waste beer, eh?!? 

>Also, have you cut the beer-out dip tube? and if so, how much? Seems like
trub
>at the bottom of the primary varies considerably from batch to batch -
>depending on beer style, yeast used, etc, etc. How do you handle this? 

Sure, depending on your batches, you will get varying levels of yeast and/or
trub.  I've seen recommendations on clipping up to 1" from the end.  I only
clip about a half inch.  In most cases the tube rarely goes all the way down
to the bottom, and this probably makes for a full 1" clearance between
bottom and tube end.  Since I  use an immersion chiller, whirlool my cooled
wort and rack off as much of the cold break as possible, maybe I don't need
to take off much more from the tube.  Most of the time, I transfer to a
secondary for clarification purposes anyway.  But if you serve from kegs and
force carbonate, that little bit which sneaked past will settle out on the
bottom anyway.  Just don't take off too much tubing 'cause you can't put it
back on.  Usually there's a bend in the tube towards the bottom, so you
might be able to adjust that to fine tune the depth.

>I'm sure there are other issues (both problems and benefits) that I haven't
>thought of. 

There are, but I won't tell you!  Kidding ;-)
I've only been fermenting in stainless for less than a year and I'm still
learning new things.  But I'll tell ya, the $60 it cost me a for a used 10
gal corny is just about the best investment I've made in this hobby.  Plus,
I have this collection of rougue bastards called the HBD to thank for a
large portion of what I know now.  All hail Pat!  All hail Pat!  Say it with
me!  All hail Pat...


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato





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Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:29:24 -0600
From: "Craig Lefevre" <cearll at telusplanet.net>
Subject: 6 row malt

Hi,
    I would like to brew a clone of Ballantine IPA which specifies 6-row
malt. 6-row malt isn't available in this area. If 2-row were substituted for
6-row malt what effect would it have on the beer and if so could this be
easily overcome? This post probably points out that I am a relatively new
all-grain brewer (4 batches) and have graduated from lurker to supplicant.
Direct responses by E-mail or through the HBD would be appreciated. Thanks
in advance for the advice.

And a special thanks to the key people in this forum: the HBD janitors who
make this possible. Their selfless efforts are the most important resource
in home brewing.

Craig Lefevre - Vegreville, Alberta





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