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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Samichlaus (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Re: I have to worry! I can't relax! (boubez)
  Kegging and time (Wayne Allen)
  Stainless steel Fermenters (drutx!homer)
  re: Too much foam (Frederic W. Brehm)
  Hop growing (was Kegging System) (Chris Shenton)
  CO2 keg system (Chris Shenton)
  Beer names (Bob Devine  04-Jan-1990 1222)
  Samichlaus Bier and wheat conversion (Chris Shenton)
  Samichlaus Bier (Alex M. Stein)
  Wort Chillers in the Summer (Chris Shenton)
  time in keg (Bill Crick)
  Hops source (Mike Northam ext 2651)
  Beer Bottle Bombs (revisited) (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Sparge Clarity (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Slow Starter (Martin A. Lodahl)


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 09:11:51 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: Samichlaus


In Homebrew Digest #335, Marc Davidson writes:
> I received as a Christmas present...Samichlaus Beer....Anyone
> know anything about this stuff?

The reason Samichlaus is in the Guinness Book of World Records is that
it is recognized as the world's most potent beer, at about 14% alcohol.
While it does seem to possess the characteristics (such as dense body)
of barley wine, I believe it is actually a lager of some sort.
The beer is brewed in Switzerland by Hurlimann A.G. and is imported
to the U.S. by Phoenix Imports.  If you call the importers they are
usually happy to discuss the beers with you (this is ESPECIALLY true
of Phoenix) and can most accurately answer any questions you have
about the product.  Phoenix Imports can be reached at (301)465-1155.
Or write to them at:
  Phoenix Imports
  2925 Montclair Drive
  Ellicott City, MD  21043
BTW: Phoneix also imports many other interesting brews including
Thomas Hardy's Ale, Huntsman Royal Oak, and several lambic ales.   

Prost!
- --Mark Stevens
  stevens at ra.stsci.edu



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Date: Thu,  4 Jan 90 10:56:14 EST
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Re: I have to worry! I can't relax!



I'd advise you to relax and not to worry. First of all, if you say that
there is a layer of foam on top, I'd check the seal on the lid, you
might not have closed it properly, allowing the gas to escape. Then
check the fermentation lock. It could also be just a slow fermentation,
that's all :-) ... Whatever you do, DON'T CHUCK THAT BATCH! Give it
another week, check the specific gravity and when it's right, bottle it.
I bet you nothing's wrong with it. Good luck.

toufic


Toufic Boubez
boubez at caip.rutgers.edu			--There's NO OAT BRAN in Motor Oil!


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 10:26:16 CST
From: wa%cadillac.cad.mcc.com at mcc.com (Wayne Allen)
Subject: Kegging and time


RobertN (ROBERTN%FM1 at sc.intel.com) writes:

> I was wondering how long kegged beer will stay fresh?

I have a plastic ball keg (brand forgotten) which I have used for
several years. I have had beer stay fresh (or at least great tasting)
for over 3 months (which is about as long as my self-control allows).
My keg allows the replinishment of co2 pressure via a co2 capsule
mount. I know of no reasons (yet) why beer should deteriorate in kegs
faster than in bottles, as long as you keep the pressure up. Anyone
have different (same) experience?

I always bottle several six-packs of each batch I keg. The difference
between the bottle and keg versions is alway noticable and
interesting. I find the kegged versions to be slightly creamier and
smoother, and their tastes evolve differently over time.

 _
 W	| Wayne Allen, wa at mcc.com
	| MCC/CAD, 3500 West Balcones Center Dr., Austin, Tx 78759


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 10:43:39 mst
From: att!drutx!homer at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
Subject: Stainless steel Fermenters

>From: "Lance "Mr. Yuck" Smith" <lsmith at umn-cs.cs.umn.edu>
>I noted that some of the AHA competitors used stainless for fermentation.
>Does anyone out there have such a set up? I'm guessing these are specialized
>systems, like the barrel system advertised recently in Zymurgy.

I have been fermenting in 5 gallon soda kegs for about three years now.
The equipment is not specialized, it takes a keg, and some extra keg parts.
A description of the equipment and procedure is in the 1988 Special issue
of Zymurgy, if there is interest I can post a summary here.



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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 13:37:06 EST
From: fwb at demon.siemens.com (Frederic W. Brehm)
Subject: re: Too much foam

Several people have complained about too much foam from their keg. Pete
Soper says:
> [describes how he carbonated a keg of lager]
> ... Foam city. Buckets of foam. Foam like 
> the Three Stooges never created in their worst washing machine disaster.
> The only way to deal with it was to fill a large pitcher and then pour 
> mostly-beer from the pitcher to glasses after the foam had subsided. 

This sounds just like the beer dispensed from tap in Munich. (I go there
on business about twice a year.) Their standard method of drawing a beer
does not use a pitcher. It is:

    1. Take a clean glass (or mug) and fill it with foam from the tap.
    This puts about 1 cm (it's Europe, remember :-) of liquid in the bottom
    of the glass.

    2. Set the glass aside for a minute or two.

    3. Top off the contents of the glass from the tap.

    4. If the glass does not yet contain enough liquid then go to step 2.
    (Naturally, Germany has a law defining "enough" in this context.)

    5. Serve the beer.

The whole process takes 10 to 15 minutes, even for those small 250 ml
glasses that pilsner usually comes in.  If you go into a busy bar you will
see 20 or 30 glasses lined up in various states of fill.

Pete also said that his ales did not foam very much. This agrees with my
experience during my two short visits to England. The bitter came out of
the tap with little foam (compared to the lagers in Munich). Of course, the
English lagers didn't have much foam either.

So, maybe that foam *should* be there! Does anyone know why there would be
such a foaming difference between the English and Munich lagers? Did all
of you with foam "problems" really do everything right?

Fred
- --
Frederic W. Brehm	Siemens Corporate Research	Princeton, NJ
fwb at demon.siemens.com	-or-	princeton!siemens!demon!fwb


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 14:19:06 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Hop growing (was Kegging System)

"2645 RUTH, GUY R." writes:
> I'm interested in growing hops in my back
> yard.  Any ideas as to where to get hop plants?  When should they be
> harvested?  How does one go about processing the flowers such that they
> can be added to the wort?  Do all varieties grow equally well in all
> climates?  And, again, how much to they cost?  Finally, how many plants
> would be sufficient to supply the flowers needed for somebody like
> myself, who brews 15-20 batches a year?

I'm compiling a mailorder comparison, and one place I've noticed sold hop
rhizomes is Great Fermentations of Marin; they also have a book on growing
them. I think the rhizomes are only available from Feb to March or something.

I'm not even sure what `rhizomes' are, but assume they're like the
roots. I've read that you don't grow from seeds 'cause you only want female
(flower-bearing) plants, and males would only destroy the bittering power
of the plants during pollination.

If anyone else has experience, could you fill us in?

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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 14:41:23 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: CO2 keg system

a.e.mossberg writes:
> Kegs are basically free, if you go with the soda keg system. Figure
> about $70 or so for the CO2 tank and regulator. I recommend a double
> regulator (pressure gauges for both CO2 tank and keg). Maybe another 
> $30 or so for hoses, faucet, connectors. Your prices may vary, but
> figure around $100 all told to get set up.

How are kegs free? Hell, for $100 everyone would do it. Best prices I seem
to see indicate about $250 for a single keg setup. Can you point to
sources?

> BTW, I want to stress using soda kegs, and not attempting to use beer
> kegs. And use Coca Cola type kegs, as parts are much easier to come by.
> If you can get Pepsi kegs easier, go ahead, but don't mix. You may want
> to consider converting the soda kegs specifically for homebrew. This
> consists of removing the tube to the bottom and replacing it with a
> float system. The advantage is that beer is always taken from just below
> the top, resulting in less potential sediment. If you don't, you'll have
> to dump (or grin and chew) the first couple mugs worth.

Where do you get the conversion parts?


Thanks for the info. It's sounding more attractive already. Especially if
the kegs can be obtained at minimal cost.


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 11:29:03 -0800
From: devine at cookie.enet.dec.com (Bob Devine 04-Jan-1990 1222)
Subject: Beer names

  Part of the fun of homebrewing comes from naming the brew.
Here are some names:

	Brew Haha - *everyone* has likely heard this one
	Low Brow - play on "lowenbrau"
	Shake's Beer - after a few you just feel poetic!
	Overhill Overt Ale - military brew?
	The Minute Maltz - quickly brewed?
	Yeast Terday - all my troubles seemed so far away...
	Havanother Beer - thanks, I will

Bob Devine
DEC/Database Engineering in Colorado Spring, CO

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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 14:26:43 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Samichlaus Bier and wheat conversion

Marc Davidson writes:
> Samichlaus Bier.  Apparently it's brewed once a year on December
> 6th and then aged for 11 months before being bottled.  It's 
> really interesting stuff but extremely potent - it's also very
> clear.
...
> Anyone know anything about this stuff?
> The bottle actually says one more thing, "Guiness Book of Records".
> Not having a book of records, I have no idea why it's in there.

It's the most alcoholic beer in the world, about 12% (can't remember if by
volume or weight). Be careful with it -- a friend of mine got a DUI last
night after drinking just one Samiclaus and one mixed drink. Very tasty
beer, but heed the caution on the label about not driving. (BTW, EKU 28 is
heavier, but not quite as alcoholic). Check Michael Jackson's ``World Guide
to Beer'' for more info.


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 10:09:38 PST
From: rutgers!retix.retix.com!alexs at hplabs.HP.COM (Alex M. Stein)
Subject: Samichlaus Bier

In Digest #335, Marc Davidson <hplsdrf!davidson at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com> 
asked about Samichlaus, since the bottles he had didn't contain
very much useful information.

I bought a couple about a month ago and the labels they had here
(in California) had a lot more information.  The beers are brewed
once a year on December 6, then aged 11 months, then bottled,
then aged another year in the bottle, and then sold.  So the
bottles I had in December 1989 were brewed in December 1987.

The Guiness Book of World Records entry is for "World's Strongest
Beer," although as Marc mentioned, it's really more a Barley
Wine.  I believe the alcohol content is in the 13-15% range.

Samichlaus is a vicious beer, not for the faint of heart.
It took four hearty souls with full stomachs almost an hour to
gulp down a bottle after dinner.  The taste is something akin to
German Jagermeister, a liqueur with the taste of cough medicine
and the kick of codeine.

The bottles I had contained the warning: "If you drink
Samichlaus, PLEASE DON'T DRIVE."

Alex Stein       
alexs at retix.com

"How am I supposed to decide if Jesus is better than Buddha?  
 I can't even decide if Jimi Hendrix was a better guitarist 
 than Les Paul."

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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 16:02:44 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wort Chillers in the Summer

OK, so I think I'm convinced to build a Wort Chiller -- immersion cuz I'm
paranoid about cleanliness. But how well can it work during the summer when
my tap water is a good 80 degrees F?

Please don't tell me I have to give up brewing -- I've done it in the
summer with moderate success, I'm just trying to maximize my odds. Or
would a counter-flow device immersed in ice water be the way to go?

TIA!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Internet:  chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155)      NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP:      ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris             Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN:      PITCH::CHRIS                                            301-286-6093

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Date: 	Thu, 4 Jan 90 15:47:41 EST
From: hplabs!rutgers!uunet.uu.net!bnrgate!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: time in keg

I have kept beer in my Roto-keg ( a plastic sphere) for 8 months without 
any noticable degradation. It did require adding CO2 cartridges periodically
to keep the carbonation up. I don't know if  this was to replace beer that
was being tapped off, slight leaks, or diffuion through the plastic.

Bill Crick Brewius, ergo sum!


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 13:08:21 PST
From: Mike Northam ext 2651 <tektronix.TEK.COM!mbn!fpssun!mbn at RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: Hops source

In #335, shoeless joe asks:

|>From: shoeless joe <DTG at UMD2.UMD.EDU>
|Subject: Please Post!
|Message-ID: <M1989$087649.208139.DTG at UMD2.UMD.EDU>

|Also, while I have everybody's attention--and I know that this has been
|discussed previously in the Digest--I'm interested in growing hops in my back
|yard.  Any ideas as to where to get hop plants?  When should they be
|harvested?  How does one go about processing the flowers such that they
|can be added to the wort?  Do all varieties grow equally well in all
|climates?  And, again, how much to they cost?  Finally, how many plants
|would be sufficient to supply the flowers needed for somebody like
|myself, who brews 15-20 batches a year?

I have no experience growing hops myself.  Here in Oregon, they are grown on
wire trellises supported by telephone pole sized posts!  (I guess they are
heavy.)  The trellises look to be 15 feet or so tall.

A source of hop root cuttings is:
  Nichols Garden Nursery
  1190 N. Pacific Hwy.
  Albany, OR  97321
  (503) 928-9280    fax (503) 967-8406
They list three varieties of 'humulus lupulus' (hops)
	Cascade
	Tettnanger (lager style)
	Willamette (English ale style)
They are $3.45 per cutting or 4 for $12.95.  I have no experience with their
cuttings, but their garden vegetable seeds are of high quality and I have been
well-satisfied with the company.  (I have no connection with them other than
as a satisfied customer.)

BTW, my wife says she may try growing some hops this year to make aromatic
wreaths.  (I don't brew beer myself at the present time.) :-(

Mike Northam             mbn at fpssun.fps.com          Home:123 13'W   45 37.5'N
(503) 641-3151 x2651     {tektronix}!nosun!fpssun!mbn
*FPS Computing has a company spokesperson, and it's certainly not me*
A hen is merely an egg's way of making another egg. (Butler)

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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 15:28:17 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: Beer Bottle Bombs (revisited)

In HOMEBREW Digest #335 (another outstanding issue), Jon Rodin 
<jar at hpcndpc.cnd.hp.com> asked:
"A fellow homebrewer recently mentioned to me that one has to be 
careful to use *re-usable* bottles .....  Is there any problem with 
reusing twist off bottles?"

My own personal standard is my estimate of the strength of the
bottle.  Bar bottles are VERY sturdily built, but some six-pack
longnecks, and most twist-offs, are somewhat more lightly
constructed.  I brew mostly British-style ales with mild carbonation
(when it works, that is 8-/), which may be one reason why I've never
experienced the Bottle Bomb Syndrome.  I've run across a few
returnable screw-cap soda bottles (750 ml) that are built like
tanks, but I wouldn't re-use a Sierra Nevada bottle.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 15:38:43 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: Sparge Clarity



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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 90 16:31:48 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: Slow Starter

In HOMEBREW Digest #335, Brian Glendenning can't relax:

"A friend and I made a pure extract batch following the instructions
given by the local brewstore. However, after 2.5 days (when I left
home this morning) no strong fermentation has started. There is a
light layer of foam on top.

I think the relevant details are:

1. dry yeast
2. started in 1.5 cups of sterile wort ...
		[...]
So, my questions are:

1. is this batch dead? time to chuck it and try again?
2. how long should it take fermentation to start?
3. how should I initially get oxygen into the wort?"

Dead?  I doubt it.  What kind of yeast?  How warm is the room?  
I had Doric behave exactly as you describe, and still (eventually)
produce good beer.  If there WEREN'T a light layer of foam on top,
I'd worry.  Now that I think of it, the barleywine now in my
fermentors has been in there for nearly four weeks, and has a light
layer of foam on it, just as it did the day after pitching.  I'll
rack it this weekend.  As a rule of thumb, if I get anything more
than light bubbling around the edges within 48 hours, I'm
comfortable.  A great roaring pile of kraeusen within 12 hours is my
heart's delight, to be sure, but not all yeasts work that way.

The method described for aerating the wort seems, uh, dramatic to
me.  Directing the stream from the racking tube down the side of the
vessel to produce a fan-shaped pattern usually introduces plenty of
air.  This should only be done with cool wort, though, unless you
wish a practical demonstration of the difference between aeration
and oxidation.  DON'T WORRY!  And if you must worry, DON'T PANIC!! 
I certainly did, with my first batch, and yet it was quite
drinkable.  The yeast know best.  Trust them.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #336, 01/05/90
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