---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  QDA / Roasted Barley (Crossno)
  HSA and Bud (RBoland)
  Jeff Renner Head Jobs ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  re: Carbonic Acid / pH Depression ("Stephen Alexander")
  Church Keys and Mashing Temps (Mark)
  The Baron Goes Public ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Aussie Beers ("Adam Ralph")
  HSA and technical references ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  suggestns for munich/prague (meierto)
  Lag Times ("Donald D. Lake")
  Hoo, boy! Whatta gig! (Some Guy)
  Timothy Green: Where are you? (The Home Brew Digest)
  Re: Bottling a 1+ year old lambic ("Chris Hebert")


* Don't miss the 2000 AHA NHC in Livonia, MI 
* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k
* WebCam coverage at http://hbd.org/eventcam

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:24:22 -0500
From: Crossno <Crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: QDA / Roasted Barley

When life gives you unmalted barley, make a dry stout.

For Fathers day my family gave me 50 lbs. of barley, unmalted.  But only
$5 from the feed store.  What uses unmalted barley???  A dry stout, it
does now any way.  First of all this stuff is almost like rocks, hard. 
I also need it roasted for a stout.

A little searching of past HBDs turned up the information,
http://www.hbd.org/ 
>Roasted Barley:
>45 minutes at 375F (190C) then 30 minutes at 450F (232C)
>until 10% of the grains' exterior are very dark and 10% are still light
>brown.  You may wish to stir every 15 minutes or so and
>turn the pan 180 degrees.

With the caveat of doing it while your SO is not home.  Oops no time for
that.  A little more research turned up the idea of doing it in you air
type popcorn popper.  Having picked up several old poppers at a bazaar I
thought I would give it a go.

1. Tilt the popper backwards.  The air blows hard enough to blow out
some of the barley otherwise.

2.  The popper holds about 3 oz.  Take this into account for your time
schedule.

3.  For lightly toasted mine runs 20 to 30 minutes.  For roasted 40
minutes or so.  When your popper runs this long the plastic top
deforms.  Don't use your SO's popper.

How much fresh(?) toasted/roasted barley should go in a stout?  I'm
brewing Sunday, so if this post is late, or your not going to make the
Saturday HBD email me.  The toasted/roasted barley tastes great!

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN
Crossno at tnns.net
- -- 
I got the pool in the ground, the rice lager on ice.  All of Phil's
ladies friends are coming over tonight!


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:50:40 EDT
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: HSA and Bud

One more factor in Bud's lack of concern about HSA may be the temperature.  
The wort is just below boiling when it is air-stripped.  Could it be that the 
Oxygen solubility at that temp. is just to low to worry about?

Bob Boland


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:29:21 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Jeff Renner Head Jobs

New evidence would indicate that Jeff Renner really has been to Burradoo
Estate and enjoyed a rice lager or two with the ladies of the billiard room
(no doubt whilst I was on the other side of the continent).

Firstly, he just won't stop talking about them - the ladies, not the lagers.

Secondly, his latest post on muskrat head repairs bares striking similarity
to that awful drunken night when Phoebe's Teddy's head was removed from it's
torso. What is going on here Jeff?
Are you the culprit?

Mind you, by your description of the repair job, I think it best to
encourage you to stick to making cereal lagers and I'll pay someone to
stitch the head back on.

Idiot!!!!

Cheers
Phil



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 02:30:12 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Carbonic Acid / pH Depression

Dan Listermann asks ...

>To what degree does carbonation depress pH? 
I assume you are thinking of fermenting under CO2
pressure Dan.  The short answer is that it depends
on a lot of factors, but a practical estimate is few
tenths of a pH unit.

>I am thinking of about 20 psi at room temperature. 
>How much infection protection could one expect? 

Knocking the pH down by a few tenths is unlikely to
stop any infection per se.  The big dip in pH from
yeast metabolic processes (from say wort pH of
5.2 to fermented wort pH of ~4.0) makes a
big difference.  Many infectious agents can't handle
the low pH, tho many can.

>Is it enough to effect yeast?
The good news is that yeast actually prefer the
lower pH.

The bad news is that CO2 reduces yeast growth.
In a paper by Heriot-Watt researchers, they state that
modest concentrations(0.2atm ~= 3psi) of CO2 is
stimulatory . .3 to .5 atm(4.5-7psi) is inhibitory
to growth - tho' fermentation continues.  At 2.5-3 at
(35-45psi) of CO2, yeast growth is entirely halted.

They fermented wort under 2atm(28psi) of CO2 
pressure at several temps and the rate of fermentation
was reduced to as little as half, and the final yeast cell
count was reduced by roughly 15-25%.  Final pH
was higher and fusels and esters lower.

There is even speculation in the lit that the primary
effect of yeast nutrients is that they act as nucleation
sites and reduce CO2 concentrations !!

 -Steve




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:59:14 -0400
From: Mark <Buriedpast at freewwweb.com>
Subject: Church Keys and Mashing Temps

Greetings all!

It seems that in our efforts to keep the topics we discuss on the HBD beer 
related, we've forgotten to inform Nina of several uses for the church key 
that still exist!  I'm especially surprised that Jeff would state that they 
are "relegated to the trash heap of history" since I get the impression 
that he more than just dabbles in the kitchen.  I still use them for the 
likes of vegetable broth, pineapple juice, condensed milk, etc.  I assume 
that Hi C and Hawaiian Punch cans have gone the way of the 2 liter plastic 
jug, though.

Dave poses a question to Brian:  << Brian,  that includes you as you didn't 
tell us what temperature you were when you began adding lactic acid to 
adjust your mash pH. >>  I would hope he was at 98.6 F!!!    :-)

And for a beer related topic - Can anyone mail or direct me to a link for 
Al K's alt recipe?  It would be greatly appreciated.

Mark Snyder
Atlanta, GA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:52:12 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: The Baron Goes Public

Steve Lacey has thrown my name in the ring and applied the Chinese Burn in
suggesting I should make myself available and perhaps give a short talk on
homebrewing at the Homebrewing Promotion day in Sydney, to be held in
October. What a shame Ray Kruse will have left the country by then as I
would have offered him up as guest speaker.
What could I talk about Steve?
I guess I could hop up on the dais and announce :
"You too could look like me if you would just drink enough home brew"
This visual image means nothing to HBD'ers.
But to offer a short description :
It would be fair to suggest I have an elfin like figure upon which is
mounted a massive Tarzan like chest and "to die for" superlative good looks.

For those of you who have viewed Eric Fouch, who very much resembles a
triangle with a gorilla like balding head perched on top, I could only be
described as Eric's antipathie.

Not that Jill would agree.
Not that I am here to insult Eric.

Not that in my shy way I even like to talk about myself.

But to get back on subject Steve, I will endeavour to make the day and
perhaps contribute something meaningful to homebrewing. I'm thinking, if
Steve Alexander would just produce a book listing all his references (and
this would be a very big book), I could take it along with me and bore the
crowd fartless.

See You On The Day
Phil



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:35:29 WST
From: "Adam Ralph" <bluehillsbrewing at hotmail.com>
Subject: Aussie Beers

Well, Bill has left himself open for a shirtfront, if ever I have seen an 
opportunity.  What words would the Aussies like to give to the Yanks?  
That's asking for trouble.  In the spirit of leaving the personal sniping to 
others that are better practised (no Phil Yates - interstate rivalry does 
not count), I'd like to say thanks for providing such a great forum.  It is 
a tremendous resource when used to discuss and debate such a wide array of 
topics.

It is a little known fact outside Western Australia (for good reason) that 
Swan Lager is not widely drunk.  I grew up on Emu Export from cans or 
stubbies and Swan Draught on tap.

Emu Export is a real man's drink, and sometimes known as Headache Piss.  In 
the last five years, Emu Bitter has emerged from Export's shadow.  The beer 
with the bite.  Recent advertising promotes EB as Australia's bitterest beer 
 - at 26 IBU.  Wow!  Having watched EB popularity grow (due to a high 
consumption of said product in a former life), is has been a remarkable 
exercise in marketing.  It is almost positioned as a boutique beer, with Ken 
(the brewer) Arrowsmith being everyone's mate.

The other favourite in WA is, alas, about to exit stage left.  Swan Gold 
is/was a medium strength lager (3.5 a/v) which was very popular with people 
past their youth.

It has lost major market share to Carlton Mid-Strength (CUB).  So we have 
just had Swan Mid launched.  It could revolutionise the market.  It will be 
made of 100% malt.  Also, I have heard a rumour that Swan are going out on a 
limb and will use real hops.  No more of that hop extract thank you.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to have a shot at Swan.  After all, we are 
very parochial over here.  And Swan and that little bottler Bondy did bring 
back the America's Cup.  By the by, now that he's out of jail, Bondy says 
sorry.

Glad the Fosters clone went well.

Later,

Adam
Blue Hills Brewing
Perth.
 -180, -180 Rennerian (probably).

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:51:36 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: HSA and technical references

>They are there Glen but you are not looking.  Get off your duff and get to
>a good library.  These brewing chemists and researchers publish regularly
>on damaging effects from oxidation in journals and books.  I've reported
>on a few of these papers. Get a library card and read 'em yourself, since
>you discount my reports.

I wouldn't discount your reports because what I'm looking for is an
explanation of the actual mechanism by which this occurs.  As in your quote
from Kunze:

(pp211) that "Oxidation during mashing[...] is shown by /darker wort and
beer, / a less refined beer flavor,/decrease
in flavor stability."  

A statement such as this doesn't cut it for me.  I'm looking for the
evidence behind this statement.  But something exactly like what you posted
regarding Spenser's theory on HSA affecting dark malt was really good and
carries some cred.

As for the library card, I've searched the Rutgers University library.  For
a school which had a discipline in brewing (at one point at least) their
selection of available materials is outdated and pretty slim.  Plus, they
won't let me in anymore.  They say I bother the young women and I can't
bring my beer ;-)

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:56:35 -0400
From: meierto at mindspring.com
Subject: suggestns for munich/prague


Leaving for Munich next week, and we will be travelling from 
there to Prague and later Venice.  I have found alot of info 
on biergartens, etc.. but I would like to hear from fellow 
HBD'ers who have been there and done that. Our schedule is 
already full, but I was wondering, if you had to pick one 
brewery or beer related place to visit in Munich or Prague,
what would it be?  Many thanks to all who respond! 

I enjoy all your posts thoroughly, and I thank you all for
wasting 15 minutes of my morning every day.  For what better
way is there to waste time than with any activity involving
beer.

I guess I can contribute one thing that hasn't already been
posted about (to my knowledge).  For those pesky Iodine
spots that won't come off with normal cleaning.. Rub with
a bit of straight concentrated BLC (KOH). Any strong caustic
would probably do.  Better have some gloves if you want to
keep your same fingerprints.

For the person who posted the picture of brown sploches on
his hop leaves awhile back.. I have been pinching the
leaves with those brown spots off, and my 1st year Centen-
nial from Freshops is growing great! Usually a side shoot
grows from the node that has been 'plucked'

Tom Meier
Decatur, AL





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:16:32 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: Lag Times

> I saw someone mention the 'shampoo tube' pitchable yeasts
> from Wyeast. Who out there has tried them? What have been
> your results? I have a lager-2124 and figured I'd step it up cuz
> that is my standard practice; but what kind of lag times have you
> seen if you've used them as a "direct pitch" yeast?

That's the first I've heard of Wyeast's "yeast-in-a-tube" (similar to
"pizza-in-a-cup"?)  However, last weekend I tried out White Labs
pitchable yeast (Calif. Ale) for the first time.  Since it was a 10-gal
batch, I made a 2-quart starter first.   I was impressed to see that I
had substantial fermatation activity in just 6.5 hours.  That's a
personal record for me.

I think I'm sold on this pitching-lots-of-yeast concept.

Don Lake



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:49:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Hoo, boy! Whatta gig!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

To all who had to miss this great conference, you have my condolences!
Take a peek at the EventCam (hbd.org/eventcam.html) to see a hint of what
you're missing - and remember that next year's will be even better!

Big and good changes afoot at the AHA. Look for changes. I like what I'm
hearing.

Missing you here at the 2000 AHA NHC....

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:46:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Home Brew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: Timothy Green: Where are you? 


To Timothy Green: I'd love to subscribe you, me lad! However, your ISP
says you don't exist. Consult with them. Your subscription receipt and any
attempt to mail a Digest to you is met with "user unknown" errors.
Hopefully you or someone you know will read this, and I can stop having to
delete error messages from ameritech :-)

To everyone else: sorry for the non-beer, administerial kinda post...

- -- 
Cheers!

The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:00:54 EDT
From: "Chris Hebert" <chrishebert1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bottling a 1+ year old lambic

>From what I understand, you should, for now, leave the 1 y.o. Lambic which 
has stopped fermanting.
On a nice warm summer day, make up another batch of lambic.  This will be 
Faro.  The trick is to then blend the two to make a palatable drink that 
isn't too bitter but not too boring, either.
This blend can then be bottled, either before it's fully fermented out.  Or, 
add your favorite priming agent at bottling time.
If you were to be really traditional, you would take this new batch of 
lambic anf let *that* age 1 year and sometime in Summer of 2001, make a 
third batch and blend that with the 1-y.o. and the 2-y.o. and get a real 
nice product.

OK, Liddel, what say you?  Is this approximate, or am I waaaaay off.

Personally, I have a 2y.o. batch that will be blended with a new batch this 
summer, bottled, then aged for awhile.  (I was too lazy to make a batch last 
year, so that's what I have...)

Good luck!
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents

---