HOMEBREW Digest #3361 Mon 26 June 2000

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  question for the australiansI'm giving serious consideration (Edward Doernberg)
  Pressure expectations... (William Macher)
  re:Carbonic acid/pH depression ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  RE: suggestns for munich/prague (LaBorde, Ronald)
  pony kegs ("Dan Senne")
  Fermenting Near Beer (Ken Haycook)
  Church key origin (Bruce & Amber Carpenter)
  yeast on agar slants (cmoore)
  Florida brewpubs (Paul Mahoney)
  Just A Bit Disappointing ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Lactic Acid in mashes #3346 ("Ian & Jean Ramsay")
  ph  at  Wits, Aylinger yeast, rice lager ("Graham Sanders")
  London (fwd) (The Home Brew Digest)
  Travel to CT ("stewartk")
  The unmitigated GALL!!  And the NHC ("Eric J Fouch")
  Surprised at the 2000 AHA NHC ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: Bud's roots (Jeff Renner)
  "Corn Is Good!" (Yeagermeyr)
  NHC CAP Handout  Part 1 (Jeff Renner)
  NHC CAP Handout Part 2 (Jeff Renner)
  Re: bt back issues (David Lamotte)

* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k * JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer * Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery... * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:15:24 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: question for the australiansI'm giving serious consideration buying some ingredients from the USA over the net. My question is what is the opinion of the Australian customs about people ordering bags of malt or hops or yeast for example and having it sent into Australia. Edward Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 07:34:41 -0400 From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: Pressure expectations... Hi all, I am trying a cask conditioned pale ale and am curious as to what the CO2 pressure will [should, might...] reach in the keg by the time it is ready. I primed the keg with 3/4 cup corn sugar, purged the air and put a few pounds of CO2 on it to seal the lid. About 12 hours later I put a pressure gage on it and the pressure read 4.5 psi. Yesterday it read 5.4 psi. Did not see it yet today... What should I expect? I thought the measurement of the pressure in the keg might tell me something more than just that the keg is holding pressure. Will it? By the way, this beer will be served at cellar temps, by gravity, but using a second corny keg with about a half lb. of pressure in it to feed the beer keg to make gravity dispensing possible without the introduction of air. Something that was discussed in the HBD a while back. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:09:17 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re:Carbonic acid/pH depression OK, not to worry, this is really relates to a more congenial discussion Steve and I are having offline. There are some _real_questions that come out of this that makes one wonder, I'm not denying the following; just looking for answers: >>they state that modest concentrations(0.2atm ~= 3psi) of CO2 is stimulatory . .3 to .5 atm(4.5-7psi) is inhibitory to growth - tho' fermentation continues. At 2.5-3 at (35-45psi) of CO2, yeast growth is entirely halted.<< I have seen champagne bottles in catalogs that are rated at 6 and 8 atmospheres, 88 to 117 pounds! perhaps our friendly S. Bayanus has been selected to ferment at these elevated pressures. Also at 35-45 psi yeast stops? how come we can get bottle bombs? It surely takes over 45 pounds to burst a glass bottle. The answer that I expect to get is: "the gas in the headspace takes time to dissolve into solution so there is a pressure rise long before the inhibitory levels are reached in the beer." I must counter that the CO2 evolves molecularly, and diffuses out of the yeast cell wall as molecules already in solution, then from solution enters the headspace. That is why (theoretically) we get a supersatuated solution when there are no nucleation sites right? (see following question) I mean the yeast cells aren't farting out little bubbles of CO2 are they? I'd expect CO2 in solution to rise simultaneously with rising headspace pressure. Perhaps someone with a "Dissolved CO2" meter can run a test and monitor CO2 in solution against the headspace pressure and see which happens first. >>There is even speculation in the lit that the primary effect of yeast nutrients is that they act as nucleation sites and reduce CO2 concentrations !!<< Heard this before and the question that comes to mind is, "why don't the yeasts themselves act as nucleation sites?" A few yeast nutrients do contain yeast hulls, but these aren't much larger than the source yeasts. Perhaps the surface area is doubled because the hulls have the inner membrane exposed in addition to the outer cell wall but we're talking some tiny stuff here 5 or 6 microns. Inquiring minds want to know NP. (Del) Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:27:11 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: suggestns for munich/prague From: meierto at mindspring.com >Leaving for Munich next week, and we will be travelling from >there to Prague and later Venice. I have found alot of info >on biergartens, etc.. but I would like to hear from fellow >HBD'ers who have been there and done that. Our schedule is >already full, but I was wondering, if you had to pick one >brewery or beer related place to visit in Munich or Prague, >what would it be? Many thanks to all who respond! Munich to Prague, hmm, I suppose by train. The railway system is great in Germany as well as Prague. Be prepared for a swarm of hecklers the moment you step off the train in Prague. More so if you stop at the first smaller station on the north end of Prague. We did that because we did not realize the main station was the next stop. Most travelers detrain at the first stop for the same reason. Prague has a feel entirely different than any other Czech town or city. It is utterly and completely overwhelmed with tourists. So much so that it affects everything. People seem surly and very unhelpfull. I came to understand why after travelling to other Czech places. There is just so much chaos that the locals can take! Do not form an opinion of the Czech Republic from only a Prague experience. Oh, a few tips. Forget trying to find your way around with a street map. Those Czech names will not register on the brain, and when looking for a street sign, you forget the name and need to look down at the map again. The only thing that worked for me was to memorize the buildings by sight. Those beautiful fields of yellow all over southern Germany and the Czech lands are rapeseed plants, from which Canola oil is made. The only brewery I was able to visit was in Pilzen, a two hour express train ride from Prague. This is a very modern brewery plant with a very clean pub on the property and now also a great restaurant. The Pilsner Urquell, fresh at the pub is fantastic. By all means, do visit the restaurant and get the best Hungarian Goulash ever. The best part of the tour was a trip through the underground tunnels to see how the large barrels were rolled around and manhandled. The beers I tasted and liked were Pilsner Urquell, Regent, Staropramen, Budvar (but not as good as PU), Krusovice, and of course my favorite, Samson. If there is any way to possibly include a visit to Czesky Krumlov, do it please. You will thank me. Munich. Beer gardens everywhere, but I favor the smaller more civilized ambiance. Just a personal quirk it seems. Therefore I especially liked the lovely small beer garden at Am Markt, just a short walk, a few blocks from center of town. There you can walk up to one of several vendors for beer and food as well. Real food, by the way, not football stadium stuff. Marien Platz is where the focus and center of Munich lies. The Glockenspiel is popular with everyone and you will enjoy a treat in understatement! Afterwards, just a short walk to Am Markt. Everyone goes to the Hoffbrau Haus, once - that is. I took the bicycle tour of Munich, and I can recommend it. A great way to get oriented down town, and also a very nice ride through the city park where we stop for a rest at a beer garden smack in the middle of the park. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:02:30 -0500 From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net> Subject: pony kegs In HBD# 3358 Jeff Renner wrote: (Another old fart's side note here - small beer outlets that were open on Sundays as exempt from Ohio "Blue laws" were called "pony kegs" - which literally referred to 1/8 barrel (3.875 gallon) kegs. I wonder if they were called that anywhere outside of Cincinnati.) In St. Louis during the 70's we referred to 1/4 barrel kegs as "pony kegs" I don't remember ever seeing a 1/8 barrel keg. Dan Senne Collinsville, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:31:44 -0500 From: Ken Haycook <khaycook at airmail.net> Subject: Fermenting Near Beer This reminds me of when a group of us kids in the sixties thought you could make wine by adding bakers yeast to a Grapette (Grape flavored soft drink) and let it sit in the sun for a couple of weeks. We actually tried it. While we all tasted the result, only one of us thought it tasted good. He drank the entire bottle. The only result was his stomach visible got rather larger from the gas. We didn't see him for the next week so we didn't find out how it "all came out." >When I was growing up in Albuquerque in the fifties and sixties I remember >something called 'near beer' being sold in the corner store, which all us >kids were convinced could be fermented in the can ( or bottle, can't >remember how it was packaged) to produce beer. We never actually tried it, >though. Ken Haycook (214) 381 3770 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:40:32 -0500 From: Bruce & Amber Carpenter <alaconn at arkansas.net> Subject: Church key origin While the subject is up, thought I would ask the question. Why is it called a church key? The shape of the hole it makes resembles a steeple, I suppose. Bruce - -- Bruce Carpenter Camden, AR 71701 bcarpenter at appleonline.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:08:57 -0700 From: cmoore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: yeast on agar slants >In order to save some money on yeast I want to learn how to use >agar slants. Please take me from the purchase of agar through >placing it in the test tubes Charlie, Agar is a sea weed derived food product often used to thicken broth in oriental foods. It is rather expensive when purchased through a scientific source, but food grade may be purchased at most Asian food marts and will come in flakes or bails that look like dried cabbage strips. Dissolved (at boil) in wort at two to three % agar by weight will provide a structural nutrient gel that will stand up in a tube. I put enough of this blend into each culture tube to provide a good surface when the tube is set on its side after removal from the pressure cooker. Screw top culture tubes are far better than test tubes in that the tube rim is by far the greatest source of contamination. A stoppered test tube just sits there collecting contaminated dust in the rim/stopper interface. If you only have test tubes then cap them with aluminum foil. A tight seal is not so important as keeping dust away from your culture. The slight breathing that a loosely capped tube does due to temperature fluctuations has never been a contamination problem for my cultures. You will find detailed information on practices and procedures in the HBD archives. Titles from me are as follows. Have fun. Clifton Moore HOMEBREW Digest #2457 Tue 08 July 1997 - 2457-1 RE. Bottle of ice questions HBD 2555 Yeast slants and cell viability HOMEBREW Digest #2561 Wed 19 November 1997 - 2561-8 RE. Yeast Slant Prep HOMEBREW Digest #2569 Fri 28 November 1997 - 2569-8 re: O2 requirement? HOMEBREW Digest #2612 Sat 17 January 1998 - 2612-13 RE yeast question HOMEBREW Digest #2616 Thu 22 January 1998 - 2616-15 Yeast practices. HOMEBREW Digest #2632 Mon 09 February 1998 - 2632-14 Kitchen malting questions. HOMEBREW Digest #2635 Thu 12 February 1998 - 2635-14 Re: Kitchen Malting HOMEBREW Digest #2865 Mon 02 November 1998 - 2865-7 re: Belgian Ale Styles HOMEBREW Digest #2877 Tue 17 November 1998 - 2877-25 Home Malting HOMEBREW Digest #2898 Fri 11 December 1998 - 2898-33 How hard can we make this hobby? HOMEBREW Digest #2922 Fri 08 January 1999 - 2922-6 Home malting, help requested HOMEBREW Digest #2927 Thu 14 January 1999 - 2927-14 bad info - Why must we? HOMEBREW Digest #2928 Fri 15 January 1999 - 2928-3 home malting - bad info HOMEBREW Digest #2943 Tue 02 February 1999 - 2943-23 Gibberellic Acid and barley germination HOMEBREW Digest #2972 Mon 08 March 1999 - 2972-8 re: Chamay yeast HOMEBREW Digest #3152 Sat 23 October 1999 - 3152-11 Home Malting: advanced steeping HOMEBREW Digest #3167 Thu 11 November 1999 - 3167-25 Home Malting update HOMEBREW Digest #3179 Fri 26 November 1999 - 3179-15 Home malting update/ evaluating water uptake in steep HBD 3181 Growing yeast starters HBD 3182 Yeast washing HOMEBREW Digest #3250 Wed 16 February 2000 - 3250-19 yeast handling techniques Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:17:29 -0400 From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Florida brewpubs Brewers: I will be visiting my father-in-law in Florida July 7 thru July 15. He lives in Flagler Beach. Any good brewpubs in the area? Last year we visited Hops in Daytona Beach. Not great, but better tthan nothing. Anything in Daytona, St. Augustine, Flagler area? Thanks. Paul Mahoney Roanoke, Va. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:35:43 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Just A Bit Disappointing My little experiment with kit beers, or extract beers if you prefer, has nearly reached completion in the primary. A taste of it today indicates it is going to be a disappointment. I guess the very reason that a lot of us have moved on to mashing is the reason for this. To my way of thinking, there just isn't any way of making a really good beer unless you take complete control of the process and start from scratch. Steve Alexander told me it was so. Wes Smith said the same. But I was hopeful that I could produce a kit beer that was "reasonably good" and feed it to drunken guests who hopefully wouldn't notice the difference. At this stage of the experiment I would have to say the guests would have to be extremely drunk! It was worth a try but I can see it is going to fail. I'm going to have to accept having drunken bums drinking all my hand crafted beer and I'm going to have to live with it. After all, being such an obnoxious offensive bastard, they sure as hell aren't coming over here to see me. As Jill constantly points out, "If it wasn't for your beer, you wouldn't have a friend in the world!!" Nice to know your place in the world. Cheers Phil Baron Of No More Kit Beers Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:50:19 +1200 From: "Ian & Jean Ramsay" <ian.ramsay at clear.net.nz> Subject: Lactic Acid in mashes #3346 Hello Everyone Dr Pivo makes some very interesting points about not balancing the mash pH with acid. If we use Pilsener Urquell as an example, soft water low levels of calcium not much to help with the mash pH so I assume the mash pH to be at the high end of the scale. I guess some form of acid is added at the copper stage. To quote the Doc "If we float back a couple of decades, the standard Czech mash was sitting at about 5.5-5.6. That was a lovely "maltose/dextrin" ratio to may tastes. In the 90's there has been some changes made, and I was shocked to sit at one of my favorite pubs a few years back, and be able to taste a new "Thin emptiness" in the middle ground of a beer I knew quite well, and to feel the slight tang of lactic acid, where other flavors should have been..... Yep, my beloved Czecho has gone over to the lactic acid trick, gaining maximum amount of alcohol, per invested grain. Now EVERY brewery I know that has converted to lactic acid additions, has subsequently had to reduce their hopping rates. With less dextrins to support the malt and sweet tones, the hopping becomes out of balance, and must be reduced to match the less complex flavour in the bass". If we go back many years staying with the soft water and low calcium example, were the finished pH levels in beer higher than we have today ?. Is it a case of lower pH levels means more stability therefore beer can travel and last longer. I take it from the above comments that the Doc does not favour the use of acid to help with pH levels but as he has a mash pH of 5.2 final pH values would not be a problem. If his mash pH were say 5.7 which is probably the case of our soft water and low calcium how would the Doc handle that one, as the final pH would be way too high. I have been receiving the digest since may last year and find the generosity of people giving their time freely just wonderful. Many thanks Ian Ramsay Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:54:40 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: ph at Wits, Aylinger yeast, rice lager G'day all Firstly what the hell is a "Outback Steakhouse". If its one of those theme feed places, why would anyone want to do this one. I mean, does one really want damper covered in ash, you tea with all sorts of rubbish in it, cooked roo meat a week old, Australian commercial beer, some cook who hasn't washed in a week, rust flakes from the hot plate, greasy bacon, goggie all over the place, and the bloody flys in everything. Not to memtion the bull-ants, snakes, spiders and drop bears (they do exist, along with the yowie and trouser snakes). You over there are welcome to it. ___________ Now i do love this hobby. Here am I, very contented with the beer I make (time to crack another), and anyway SWMBO in a rash momemt allows me to buy a PH meter. Being quick on the uptake, I go for it and get a beaut little monster, temp compensating and all that garbage. Now to play with the toy. Oh dear, my beers aren't perfect anymore. So its time to go to a higher plane (listening Hopper). Now it takes only one beer to get it just right and again all is right in the world. A pitch of salt here and there and problems solved. But now I'm truely up shit creek. I want to make a Wit, and I want to do a lactic mash (rest whatever) for a couple of days before the main mash. Just feel that will give me a more complex beer. But my toy troubles me. I have searched the dim dark recesses of my mind (dont go there mates, its not nice), and I seem to recall that that the wort should be 4.9 at the start to the boil. Is that true? Now if its true doesn't that throw all the ridgy-didge ph measurements one would expect in a brew right out the window. So people, what ph's (and temps if you are so enclined) should I aim for. Will it be detrimental to have a highly acidic mash if I have my sparge water at 5.7? What to I aim for (besides phils head) at the different stages of the brew. _____________ Speaking of cockies, I have a bone to pick with him. I nearly dropped him for bringing near freezing weather up here when he visited (thank god the climate has returned to a normal tropical winter - suck eggs you southerners). And thank god he has been exiled. Dont know how any of you can like the cold and snow, it just sucks. Only seen snow once, and that was enough. But what Phils has done has brought the dreaded wog to the North. My throat is dryer than a dead dingos donger. Now SWMBO thinks its sexy, and is over me like a nearly-wed. Thanks Phil, if you have seen her in a nightie, you'll understand if I deck you. Phils Aylinger yeast is also growing, be it fairly slowly. I have sent it away for a barage of test from the labs in North Queensland. Something fishy is going on here. More to come. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: The Home Brew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com> Subject: London (fwd) Forwarding a misplaced post. Please reply to EdgeAle at cs.com. - -- Cheers! The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:14:08 EDT From: EdgeAle at cs.com To: hbd at hbd.org Subject: London HBDer's, I will be in London England next week. I have CAMRA's good beer guide and Protz's real Ale Almanac but I want more! Actually I want less. There are way too many places listed for me to visit in the time I will have. Can anyone suggest a short list of must-visits. In particular I am interested in brew-pubs. Also, I have two particular questions about the drinking laws in London as we will be travelling with a 15 yr old. 1) What is the drinking age in England (I assume it is over 15 but you never know). 2) Are underage persons allowed in pubs if they are not drinking. Thank You, Dana Edgell Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego EdgeAle at cs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:45:04 -0700 From: "stewartk" <kscaddo at argontech.net> Subject: Travel to CT I will be traveling to the Waterbury/Southington area of Connecticut in = late July. Any suggestions for good beer, brewpubs, and restaurants? Thanks, Ken Brewing in Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:10:45 -0700 From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: The unmitigated GALL!! And the NHC Phil is really tap dancing in the minefield with this one: >For those of you who have viewed Eric Fouch, who very much resembles a >triangle with a gorilla like balding head perched on top, I could only be >described as Eric's antipathie (sic). If I knew what "antipathie" means, I would probably be offended. But, I would assume it means Phil thinks he looks like an upside-down triangle with a gorilla head dangling about off the inverted point. At any rate, I can soon make available, for general use, an updated photo of myself from the AHA NHC. Since Fred wasn't there to keep me in line (He claimed to be bedridden with an old bowling injury, but an olfactory evaluation would indicate another infected colostomy bag). If Todd's outdoor camera worked indoors, I'm told I was photographed getting into the hottub relatively naked. OK- totally. I'll have to electronically reduce and obscure the naughty bits and airbrush out the stolen merchandise, but I digress. I did try to get photos of myself with various and sundry notables, dignitaries and brewing world potentates. If the indoor photos turned out, I'll post them to a website with appropriate commentary. All in all, the event was outstanding, the beer was incredible and the people watching was top-notch. If, in my pre-hottub photo-op drunken obnoxiousness state, I inadvertently scared you away from the Primetime Brewers table before you could sample my Belgian wit, I sincerely apologize. I was told it was quite good. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:18:57 -0400 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Surprised at the 2000 AHA NHC Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Wow! What a great time the National Homebrewers' Conference was! And what a surprise for Karl and I to to receive the AHA Recognition Award for our work on the HBD! As I think of it, perhaps I was to make an acceptance speech? Dunno - my state of shock and surprise would have precluded it, anyway. If I had, though, it would go something like this... ******************* Wow! I never expected anything like this! This is great! Wow! I suppose I should start by thanking those that have contributed to this moment: First, my family - particularly The Lovely Kim - who allow me the time to operate the Digest and do Things Beery. To the AHA for providing Karl and I the opportunity to run the Digest and to Karl Lutzen and Scott Abene for talking me into it. To all those who have kicked in money and material to build and maintain the Digest servers. Again, to my partner Karl for bringing me from believing that unix is the plural form of eunuch to actually being functional in it. But, especially, to all those who post material to and read the Digest daily - without you, there'd little point to doing it at all. I've been heard in the past admonishing the BJCP that home brewers' are not for the BJCP, but that the BJCP is for home brewers. Well, that's doubly true for the HBD. Without the home brewers who have supplied, discussed and learned from the information within our electronic pages, we'd be nothing at all. And to the AHA BOA who not only made the decision to bestow this great honor onto Karl and I, but managed to keeping it a secret from me from the time I was elected to the board. When I meet HBDers, many point out that being a Janitor is such a thankless job. It's far from that, my friends. Besides all the thanks received in person and in email - and now this award, I find running the Digest to be a fun and edifying experience. I've learned much about people, personalities and about communicating while onboard. Things that have helped me to develop, and things I've been able to apply to other facets of my life. Plus, I've learned things about beer and brewing, too. But, primarily, knowing that the HBD is making quality information available to anyone who has access to the internet and that we are able to compile and preserve quality home brewing information for free reference is all the thanks I need. Thank you all! I think I'll hang this on the wall the JanitorCam points at! ******************* But, then again, I probably couldn't have been that articulate on such short notice. Anyway, thanks! I appreciate the award, and the input of all those who have made it possible. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:18:19 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Bud's roots Del "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> wrote )of Budweiser's air stripping column): >Whoa, a contradiction, lagers are *supposed to have >sulfur characters as compared to ales aren't they? Well, *our* lagers are, but who's to argue with over two billion barrels sold? You wouldn't want to have anything in there to offend the loyal drinkers. > >>Bud traces its origins not to Munich, but to Budweis << > (knew this would raise an eyebrow or two) > Well known, but what makes a pilsner, pale color or hop character? ><snip> ignoring the IBUs >consider the hop/malt balance, is it reasonably close to a pils? >It's just barely a helles. > This is my reasoning for calling it a dumbed-down helles. >>>As a matter of fact, virtually all mainstream US lagers of today >>are in the pilsner style, albeit much watered down by now<< > I just have a hard time agreeing that cuz they're pale they're >pilsners, maybe "once upon a time" 80 years ago. Well, here's the logic - they were very much in the pilsner style 100 years ago, but they were dumbed down gradually, almost imperceptibly, until they reached what they are today. They sure aren't pilsners today, but they aren't Helleses (sp?) either. Where's the malt that a Helles has? If they're dumbed down anything, it's pilsner. That's why we have to brew CAPs today! Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:25:59 EDT From: Yeagermeyr at aol.com Subject: "Corn Is Good!" Went to the AHA NHC 2000 show saturday and and after listening to Jeff Renner's talk and sampling the accompaning beers I'm forced to admit [well I'm not really forced, right now I'm fantasizing {flame me!!} about a big mug of corn beer!]. Changed my mind about CAP forever! Jeff, where can I find the recipe? I try searching HBD Archives but i keep getting syntax errors. I 100% agree! CORN IS GOOD!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:13:32 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: NHC CAP Handout Part 1 Brewers I've been asked to post the handout from my talk on CAPs at the NHC. There was a great enthusiastic audience - standing room only, and I know there are some more converts to the cause. I haven't caught up on back HBDs yet, so I don't know if there are other comments from others on the weekend. I'll write more later. Note that this was not intended to be a stand alone document but rather a handout for attendees, so it may not all be self explanatory. Jeff THE REVIVAL OF THE CLASSIC AMERICAN PILSNER Presented by Jeff Renner National Homebrew Conference 2000 Livonia, Michigan, June 22-24, 2000 Recapture your heritage! Brew a legend! Brewed with the same ingredients and procedures as their "mega-lager" descendants, but with real taste, this brew has become the hottest "new" old beer in homebrewing. Several things mark a classic American pilsner, but most fundamental is the use of corn (maize) and/or rice adjunct. Corn or rice use should be kept between 20% and 30% so the malt character isn't lost but so it doesn't predominate too much, either. I generally use about 22 - 25%, but go to 30% for light, crisp beers. Raw cereals must be incorporated in the American double mash method. Flakes can be mashed directly. Mash temperature can be manipulated for fermentability. The balance of the grain bill is traditionally six-row malt, with perhaps a little Munich and/or Carapils, especially in lower gravity beers. Hops are traditionally Cluster for bittering and noble or modern derivatives for flavor and aroma. Water should be low in alkalinity and sulfate. Recipes Here is my standard pre-pro CAP these days (but be sure to try a 1.046, 25 IBU post-pro one too): "Your Father's Mustache" 5 finished beer gallons at 1.051, upper 30's IBU 7.25 lbs. six-row malt 2 lbs. corn meal* *Or grits, polenta or coarsely ground rice, or combination of rice and corn First Wort Hops: 3 HBU Saaz or other noble hops (3.2 HBU for pellets) Bittering hops: (60 minutes) 5.3 HBU whole Cluster (4.8 HBU for pellets) Flavor hops: (15 minutes) 1.5 HBU whole noble hops or Styrian Goldings (1.2 HBU for pellets) Yeast: Any clean lager yeast Water: low alkalinity, low sulfate water -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:15:17 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: NHC CAP Handout Part 2 Schedule for American Double Mash for cornmeal or rice (grits and polenta must be boiled longer): Time 00: In a kitchen pot, mash in corn or rice and 10 ounces of malt with 1.5 to 2 quarts of water to hit 153F Time 15: Mash in main mash 104F Time 20: Bring cereal mash to boil Time 30: Cereal mash boiling Time 35: Add boiling water and/or burner with recirculation to ramp main mash to 144-146F Time 65: Add cereal mash to main mash yield, adjust temperature as needed to 158F Time 95: Ramp to 170F mashout Time 105: Begin sparge and lauter As soon as kettle bottom is covered add first wort hops and maintain wort temperature at approximately 170F during lautering. Collect enough wort to yield 5.25 gallons finished wort. Boil uncovered at least 60 minutes, longer to reduce DMS. Chill to 48F, aerate or oxygenate well, pitch yeast from large starter (four quarts is ideal). Ferment at 48F until fermentation nearly stops, about 10 to 14 days, rack to secondary and reduce temperature 4F per day to 0F. Lager six to seven weeks. To brew with a simple infusion mash, substitute flaked maize of rice for the raw cereal and mash between 148F (for a very well attenuated, dry beer) to 157F (for a richer, less well attenuated beer). For all extract beer, use six pounds of Alexander's or William's light liquid malt extract and 1.5 lbs rice syrup. Steep the first wort hops in wort at 170F for 60 minutes before bringing to a boil and adding remaining hops. Increase hopping rate if boiling less than full volume. SPECIFICATIONS AND EVALUATION As a resurrected beer style, classic American pilsner specifications are a matter of some flux. The AHA and BJCP style guidelines have been combined, and while I think there are some shortcomings, they are pretty good. I do think that very low levels of diacetyl, which can enhance maltiness, should be permitted, as was the case with the old AHA guidelines. Judging can be problematic as this is a style many judges, even fine, experienced ones, are unfamiliar with. I have been at fault myself, as at the MCAB 2000 finals when I faulted a big pre-prohibition beer brewed by George Fix for being too big for style and overhopped, yet it had was within guidelines at 1.060 and 40 IBU. I'm pleased to say I gave it a score of 40/50 anyhow. Here are the important points from the BJCP guidelines for category 1C, Classic American Pilsner: Vital Statistics: OG: 1.044-1.060 IBUs: 25-40 FG: 1.010-1.015 SRM: 3-6 ABV: 4.5-6% Aroma: Low to medium clean, grainy and sweet maltiness may be evident. Medium to high hop aroma, often classic noble hops. No fruitiness or diacetyl. Some "cooked-corn" aroma due to DMS may be noticeable. Appearance: Light to gold color. Substantial, long lasting head. Bright clarity. Flavor: Medium to high maltiness similar to the Bohemian Pilsners but somewhat lighter due to the use of up to 30% flaked maize (corn) used as an adjunct. Slight grainy sweetness from the use of maize with substantial offsetting hop bitterness. Medium to high hop flavor from noble hops. Medium to high hop bitterness. No fruitiness or diacetyl. Mouthfeel: Medium body and rich, creamy mouthfeel. Medium to high carbonation levels. Comments: The classic American Pilsner was brewed both pre-Prohibition and post-Prohibition with some differences. OGs of 1.050-1.060 would have been appropriate for pre-Prohibition beers while gravities dropped to 1.044-1.049 after Prohibition. Corresponding IBUs dropped from a pre-Prohibition level of 25-40 to 20-35 after Prohibition. -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:35:04 +1000 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: bt back issues Where are those damned emoticons when you need them. When the two S's (Scott & Steve ) wrote ... >Exactly, Dave Lamotte and others have justification for >feeling a bit put-out, but a court has apparently relieved >New Wine Press, Inc of it's obligation to us and tort law, >not Mr.Mallery, will determine precedence for any >disbursements. I don't feel put out ... I am just getting a little tired of Mr Mallory ( or more correctly people promising on his behalf) what I do not believe that he can, will or should deliver. Obviously, I don't know Stephen, but everyone who does has nothing but praise for him. And you only had to look at BT to know what a quality approach he took. But he really seems to be letting himself down with a string of broken promises. Let's face it, a lesser man would have sold up whatever he could and sent whatever mags were left to the tip. So, what is the best way out - without him spending any more of his money (because now that the business has folded, it really is his own money). I wish I had an answer, but I would rather see Stephen Mallory either provide one or come out and state ' Sorry, but despite my best intentions it is not going to happen'. He would then be free to dispose of any mags any way he pleased. I am the first to admit that he has done heaps more that he was 'legally' required to do, and he will have my undying respect for the way that he has attempted to meet his obligations (apart from the mixup about charging my credit card, and email going unanswered). When this has happened to me twice before, the first that you hear is a letter from the receiver advising that you are an unsecured creditor and where you can go to queue up for the non-existent refunds. Lets just follow Scott's advice and forget about it. Hell I spend more on brewing gadgets each month than what I lost in subscriptions ! Thanks for listening. David Brewing Down Under in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia "Only a mediocre person is always at their best" Return to table of contents
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