---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  question for the australiansI'm giving serious consideration (Edward Doernberg)
  Pressure expectations... (William Macher)
  re:Carbonic acid/pH depression ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  RE: suggestns for munich/prague (LaBorde, Ronald)
  pony kegs ("Dan Senne")
  Fermenting Near Beer (Ken Haycook)
  Church key origin (Bruce & Amber Carpenter)
  yeast on agar slants (cmoore)
  Florida brewpubs (Paul Mahoney)
  Just A Bit Disappointing ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Lactic Acid in mashes #3346 ("Ian & Jean Ramsay")
  ph  at  Wits, Aylinger yeast, rice lager ("Graham Sanders")
  London (fwd) (The Home Brew Digest)
  Travel to CT ("stewartk")
  The unmitigated GALL!!  And the NHC ("Eric J Fouch")
  Surprised at the 2000 AHA NHC ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: Bud's roots (Jeff Renner)
  "Corn Is Good!" (Yeagermeyr)
  NHC CAP Handout  Part 1 (Jeff Renner)
  NHC CAP Handout Part 2 (Jeff Renner)
  Re: bt back issues (David Lamotte)


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:15:24 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: question for the australiansI'm giving serious consideration

buying some ingredients from the USA over the net. My question is what is
the opinion of the Australian customs about people ordering bags of malt or
hops or yeast for example and having it sent into Australia.

Edward



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 07:34:41 -0400
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Pressure expectations...

Hi all,

I am trying a cask conditioned pale ale and am curious as to what the CO2
pressure will [should, might...] reach in the keg by the time it is ready. 

I primed the keg with 3/4 cup corn sugar, purged the air and put a few
pounds of CO2 on it to seal the lid. About 12 hours later I put a pressure
gage on it and the pressure read 4.5 psi. Yesterday it read 5.4 psi. Did
not see it yet today...

What should I expect? I thought the measurement of the pressure in the keg
might tell me something more than just that the keg is holding pressure.
Will it?

By the way, this beer will be served at cellar temps, by gravity, but using
a second corny keg with about a half lb. of pressure in it to feed the beer
keg to make gravity dispensing possible without the introduction of air.
Something that was discussed in the HBD a while back.

Bill



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:09:17 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:Carbonic acid/pH depression

 OK, not to worry, this is really relates to a more congenial discussion
Steve and I are having offline.
There are some _real_questions that come out of this that makes one
wonder, I'm not denying the following; just looking for answers:
   >>they state that
modest concentrations(0.2atm ~= 3psi) of CO2 is
stimulatory . .3 to .5 atm(4.5-7psi) is inhibitory
to growth - tho' fermentation continues.  At 2.5-3 at
(35-45psi) of CO2, yeast growth is entirely halted.<<

I have seen champagne bottles in catalogs that are rated at 6 and 8
atmospheres, 88 to 117 pounds! perhaps our friendly S. Bayanus
has been selected to ferment at these elevated pressures. Also
at 35-45 psi yeast stops? how come we can get bottle bombs?
It surely takes over 45 pounds to burst a glass bottle. The answer
that I expect to get is: "the gas in the headspace takes time to dissolve
into solution so there is a pressure rise long before the inhibitory levels
are reached in the beer." I must counter that the CO2 evolves molecularly,
and diffuses out of the yeast cell wall as molecules already in solution, 
then from solution enters the headspace. That is why (theoretically)
we get a supersatuated solution when there are no nucleation sites right?
(see following question)  I mean the yeast cells aren't
farting out little bubbles of CO2 are they? I'd expect CO2 in solution to
rise simultaneously with rising headspace pressure. Perhaps someone
with a "Dissolved CO2" meter can run a test and monitor CO2 in solution
against the headspace pressure and see which happens first.

>>There is even speculation in the lit that the primary
effect of yeast nutrients is that they act as nucleation
sites and reduce CO2 concentrations !!<<

  Heard this before and the question that comes to mind is,
"why don't the yeasts themselves act as nucleation sites?" 
A few yeast nutrients do contain yeast hulls, but these aren't
much larger than the source yeasts. Perhaps the surface area
is doubled because the hulls have the inner membrane exposed
in addition to the outer cell wall but we're talking some tiny stuff here
5 or 6 microns. 

Inquiring minds want to know

    NP. (Del) Lansing


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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:27:11 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: suggestns for munich/prague

From: meierto at mindspring.com

>Leaving for Munich next week, and we will be travelling from 
>there to Prague and later Venice.  I have found alot of info 
>on biergartens, etc.. but I would like to hear from fellow 
>HBD'ers who have been there and done that. Our schedule is 
>already full, but I was wondering, if you had to pick one 
>brewery or beer related place to visit in Munich or Prague,
>what would it be?  Many thanks to all who respond! 

Munich to Prague, hmm, I suppose by train.  The railway system is great in
Germany as well as Prague.
Be prepared for a swarm of hecklers the moment you step off the train in
Prague. More so if you stop at the first smaller station on the north end of
Prague.  We did that because we did not realize the main station was the
next stop.
Most travelers detrain at the first stop for the same reason.

Prague has a feel entirely different than any other Czech town or city.  It
is utterly and completely overwhelmed with tourists.  So much so that it
affects everything.  People seem surly and very unhelpfull.  I came to
understand why after travelling to other Czech places.  There is just so
much chaos that the locals can take!  Do not form an opinion of the Czech
Republic from only a Prague experience.

Oh, a few tips.  Forget trying to find your way around with a street map.
Those Czech names will not register on the brain, and when looking for a
street sign, you forget the name and need to look down at the map again.
The only thing that worked for me was to memorize the buildings by sight.

Those beautiful fields of yellow all over southern Germany and the Czech
lands are rapeseed plants, from which Canola oil is made.

The only brewery I was able to visit was in Pilzen, a two hour express train
ride from Prague.  This is a very modern  brewery plant with a very clean
pub on the property and now also a great restaurant.  The Pilsner Urquell,
fresh at the pub is fantastic.  By all means, do visit the restaurant and
get the best Hungarian Goulash ever.  The best part of the tour was a trip
through the underground tunnels to see how the large barrels were rolled
around and manhandled.

The beers I tasted and liked were Pilsner Urquell, Regent, Staropramen,
Budvar (but not as good as PU), Krusovice, and of course my favorite,
Samson.

If there is any way to possibly include a visit to Czesky Krumlov, do it
please. You will thank me.

Munich.  Beer gardens everywhere, but I favor the smaller more civilized
ambiance. Just a personal quirk it seems.  Therefore I especially liked the
lovely small beer garden at Am Markt, just a short walk, a few blocks from
center of town. There you can walk up to one of several vendors for beer and
food as well. Real food, by the way, not football stadium stuff.  

Marien Platz is where the focus and center of Munich lies.  The Glockenspiel
is popular with everyone and you will enjoy a treat in understatement!
Afterwards, just a short walk to Am Markt.

Everyone goes to the Hoffbrau Haus, once - that is.

I took the bicycle tour of Munich, and I can recommend it.   A great way to
get oriented down town, and also a very nice ride through the city park
where we stop for a rest at a beer garden smack in the middle of the park.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:02:30 -0500
From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
Subject: pony kegs

In HBD# 3358 Jeff Renner wrote:

(Another old fart's side note here - small beer outlets that were open on
Sundays as exempt from Ohio "Blue laws" were called "pony kegs" - which
literally referred to 1/8 barrel (3.875 gallon) kegs.  I wonder if they
were called that anywhere outside of Cincinnati.)

In St. Louis during the 70's we referred to 1/4 barrel kegs as "pony kegs"
I don't remember ever seeing a 1/8 barrel keg.

Dan Senne
Collinsville, IL



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:31:44 -0500
From: Ken Haycook <khaycook at airmail.net>
Subject: Fermenting Near Beer

This reminds me of when a group of us kids in the sixties thought you could 
make wine by adding bakers yeast to a Grapette (Grape flavored soft drink) and 
let it sit in the sun for a couple of weeks. We actually tried it. While we all 
tasted the result, only one of us thought it tasted good. He drank the entire 
bottle. The only result was his stomach visible got rather larger from the gas. 
We didn't see him for the next week so we didn't find out how it "all came 
out."


>When I was growing up in Albuquerque in the fifties and sixties I remember
>something called 'near beer' being sold in the corner store, which all us
>kids were convinced could be fermented in the can ( or bottle, can't
>remember how it was packaged) to produce beer.  We never actually tried it,
>though.

Ken Haycook
(214) 381 3770



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:40:32 -0500
From: Bruce & Amber Carpenter <alaconn at arkansas.net>
Subject: Church key origin

While the subject is up, thought I would ask the question. Why is it called
a church key? The shape of the hole it makes resembles a steeple, I suppose.

Bruce

- --
Bruce Carpenter
Camden, AR 71701
bcarpenter at appleonline.net



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:08:57 -0700
From: cmoore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu>
Subject: yeast on agar slants

>In order to save some money on yeast I want to learn how to use
>agar slants. Please take me from the purchase of agar through
>placing it in the test tubes

Charlie,

Agar is a sea weed derived food product often used to thicken
broth in oriental foods.

It is rather expensive when purchased through a scientific source,
but food grade may be purchased at most Asian food marts and
will come in flakes or bails that look like dried cabbage strips.

Dissolved (at boil) in wort at two to three % agar by weight will
provide a structural nutrient gel that will stand up in a tube.  I put
enough of this blend into each culture tube to provide a good
surface when the tube is set on its side after removal from the pressure
cooker.

Screw top culture tubes are far better than test tubes in that the
tube rim is by far the greatest source of contamination.  A stoppered
test tube just sits there collecting contaminated dust in the
rim/stopper
interface.  If you only have test tubes then cap them with aluminum
foil.
A tight seal is not so important as keeping dust away from your culture.

The slight breathing that a loosely capped tube does due to temperature
fluctuations has never been a contamination problem for my cultures.

You will find detailed information on practices and procedures in the
HBD
archives.

Titles from me are as follows.

Have fun.

Clifton Moore

HOMEBREW Digest #2457 Tue 08 July 1997 - 2457-1  RE. Bottle of ice
questions
HBD 2555 Yeast slants and cell viability
HOMEBREW Digest #2561 Wed 19 November 1997 - 2561-8 RE.  Yeast Slant
Prep
HOMEBREW Digest #2569 Fri 28 November 1997 - 2569-8  re: O2 requirement?

HOMEBREW Digest #2612 Sat 17 January 1998 - 2612-13  RE yeast question
HOMEBREW Digest #2616 Thu 22 January 1998 - 2616-15  Yeast practices.
HOMEBREW Digest #2632 Mon 09 February 1998 - 2632-14  Kitchen  malting
questions.
HOMEBREW Digest #2635 Thu 12 February 1998 - 2635-14 Re: Kitchen Malting

HOMEBREW Digest #2865 Mon 02 November 1998 - 2865-7 re: Belgian Ale
Styles
HOMEBREW Digest #2877 Tue 17 November 1998 - 2877-25 Home Malting
HOMEBREW Digest #2898 Fri 11 December 1998 - 2898-33 How hard can we
make
                        this hobby?
HOMEBREW Digest #2922 Fri 08 January 1999 - 2922-6 Home malting, help
requested
HOMEBREW Digest #2927 Thu 14 January 1999 - 2927-14 bad info - Why must
we?
HOMEBREW Digest #2928 Fri 15 January 1999 - 2928-3 home malting - bad
info
HOMEBREW Digest #2943 Tue 02 February 1999 - 2943-23 Gibberellic Acid
and barley
                        germination
HOMEBREW Digest #2972 Mon 08 March 1999 - 2972-8 re:  Chamay yeast
HOMEBREW Digest #3152 Sat 23 October 1999 - 3152-11 Home Malting:
advanced steeping
HOMEBREW Digest #3167 Thu 11 November 1999 - 3167-25 Home Malting update

HOMEBREW Digest #3179 Fri 26 November 1999 - 3179-15 Home malting
update/
                        evaluating water uptake in steep
HBD 3181  Growing yeast starters
HBD 3182  Yeast washing
HOMEBREW Digest #3250 Wed 16 February 2000 - 3250-19 yeast handling
techniques



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Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:17:29 -0400
From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Florida brewpubs

Brewers:
   I will be visiting my father-in-law in Florida July 7 thru July 15.
He lives in Flagler Beach.
   Any good brewpubs in the area?  Last year we visited Hops in Daytona
Beach.  Not great, but better tthan nothing.  Anything in Daytona, St.
Augustine, Flagler area?
  Thanks.

Paul Mahoney
Roanoke, Va.



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:35:43 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Just A Bit Disappointing

My little experiment with kit beers, or extract beers if you prefer, has
nearly reached completion in the primary. A taste of it today indicates it
is going to be a disappointment. I guess the very reason that a lot of us
have moved on to mashing is the reason for this. To my way of thinking,
there just isn't any way of making a really good beer unless you take
complete control of the process and start from scratch.
Steve Alexander told me it was so.
Wes Smith said the same.

But I was hopeful that I could produce a kit beer that was "reasonably good"
and feed it to drunken guests who hopefully wouldn't notice the difference.
At this stage of the experiment I would have to say the guests would have to
be extremely drunk!

It was worth a try but I can see it is going to fail. I'm going to have to
accept having drunken bums drinking all my hand crafted beer and I'm going
to have to live with it.

After all, being such an obnoxious offensive bastard, they sure as hell
aren't coming over here to see me.

As Jill constantly points out,  "If it wasn't for your beer, you wouldn't
have a friend in the world!!"

Nice to know your place in the world.

Cheers
Phil
Baron Of No More Kit Beers



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:50:19 +1200
From: "Ian & Jean Ramsay" <ian.ramsay at clear.net.nz>
Subject: Lactic Acid in mashes #3346

Hello Everyone
Dr Pivo makes some very interesting points about  not balancing the mash pH
with acid. If we use Pilsener Urquell as an example, soft water low levels
of calcium not much to help with the mash pH so I assume the mash pH to be
at the high end of the scale. I guess some form of acid is added at the
copper stage.
To quote the Doc "If we float back a couple of decades, the standard Czech
mash was sitting at about 5.5-5.6. That was a lovely "maltose/dextrin" ratio
to may tastes. In the 90's there has been some changes made, and I was
shocked to sit at one of my favorite pubs a few years back, and be able to
taste a new "Thin emptiness" in the middle ground of a beer I knew quite
well, and to feel the slight tang of lactic acid, where other
flavors should have been..... Yep, my beloved Czecho has gone over to the
lactic acid trick, gaining maximum amount of alcohol, per invested grain.
Now EVERY brewery I know that has converted to lactic acid additions, has
subsequently had to reduce their hopping rates. With less dextrins to
support the malt and sweet tones, the hopping becomes out of balance,
and must be reduced to match the less complex flavour in the bass".
If we go back many years staying with the soft water and low calcium
example, were the finished pH levels in beer higher than we have today ?. Is
it a case of lower pH levels means more stability therefore beer can travel
and last longer.
I take it from the above comments that the Doc does not favour the use of
acid to help with pH levels but as he has a mash pH of 5.2 final pH values
would not be a problem. If his mash pH were say 5.7 which is probably the
case of our soft water and low calcium how would the Doc handle that one, as
the final pH would be way too high.
I have been receiving the digest since may last year and find the generosity
of people giving their time freely just wonderful.
Many thanks
Ian Ramsay




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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:54:40 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: ph  at  Wits, Aylinger yeast, rice lager

G'day all

Firstly what the hell is a "Outback Steakhouse".  If its one of those theme
feed places, why would anyone want to do this one.  I mean, does one really
want damper covered in ash, you tea with all sorts of rubbish in it, cooked
roo meat a week old, Australian commercial beer, some cook who hasn't washed
in a week, rust flakes from the hot plate, greasy bacon, goggie all over the
place, and the bloody flys in everything.  Not to memtion the bull-ants,
snakes, spiders and drop bears (they do exist, along with the yowie and
trouser snakes).   You over there are welcome to it.

___________

Now i do love this hobby. Here am I, very contented with the beer I make
(time to crack another), and anyway SWMBO in a rash momemt allows me to buy
a PH meter.  Being quick on the uptake, I go for it and get a beaut little
monster, temp compensating and all that garbage.  Now to play with the toy.
Oh dear, my beers aren't perfect anymore.  So its time to go to a higher
plane (listening Hopper).  Now it takes only one beer to get it just right
and again all is right in the world.  A pitch of salt here and there and
problems solved.

But now I'm truely up shit creek.  I want to make a Wit, and I want to do a
lactic mash (rest whatever) for a couple of days before the main mash.  Just
feel that will give me a more complex beer.  But my toy troubles me.  I have
searched the dim dark recesses of my mind (dont go there mates, its not
nice), and I seem to recall that that the wort should be 4.9 at the start to
the boil.  Is that true?  Now if its true doesn't that throw all the
ridgy-didge ph measurements one would expect in a brew right out the window.
So people, what ph's (and temps if you are so enclined) should I aim for.
Will it be detrimental to have a highly acidic mash if I have my sparge
water at 5.7?  What to I aim for (besides phils head) at the different
stages of the brew.

_____________

Speaking of cockies, I have a bone to pick with him.  I nearly dropped him
for bringing near freezing weather up here when he visited (thank god the
climate has returned to a normal tropical winter - suck eggs you
southerners).  And thank god he has been exiled. Dont know how any of you
can like the cold and snow, it just sucks.  Only seen snow once, and that
was enough.  But what Phils has done has brought the dreaded wog to the
North.  My throat is dryer than a dead dingos donger.  Now SWMBO thinks its
sexy, and is over me like a nearly-wed.  Thanks Phil, if you have seen her
in a nightie, you'll understand if I deck you.

Phils Aylinger yeast is also growing, be it fairly slowly.  I have sent it
away for a barage of test from the labs in North Queensland.  Something
fishy is going on here. More to come.

Shout

Graham Sanders



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:58:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Home Brew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: London (fwd)

Forwarding a misplaced post. Please reply to EdgeAle at cs.com.

- -- 
Cheers!

The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:14:08 EDT
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
To: hbd at hbd.org
Subject: London


HBDer's,

I will be in London England next week. I have CAMRA's good beer guide and 
Protz's real Ale Almanac but I want more! Actually I want less. There are way 
too many places listed for me to visit in the time I will have. Can anyone 
suggest a short list of must-visits. In particular I am interested in 
brew-pubs.

Also, I have two particular questions about the drinking laws in London as we 
will be travelling with a 15 yr old.

1) What is the drinking age in England (I assume it is over 15 but you never 
know).
2) Are underage persons allowed in pubs if they are not drinking. 

Thank You,
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego
EdgeAle at cs.com



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:45:04 -0700
From: "stewartk" <kscaddo at argontech.net>
Subject: Travel to CT

I will be traveling to the Waterbury/Southington area of Connecticut in =
late July. Any suggestions for good beer, brewpubs, and restaurants?
Thanks, Ken
Brewing in Texas



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:10:45 -0700
From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net>
Subject: The unmitigated GALL!!  And the NHC

Phil is really tap dancing in the minefield with this one:

>For those of you who have viewed Eric Fouch, who very much resembles a
>triangle with a gorilla like balding head perched on top, I could only be
>described as Eric's antipathie (sic).

If I knew what "antipathie" means, I would probably be offended.  But, I
would assume it means Phil thinks he looks like an upside-down triangle with
a gorilla head dangling about off the inverted point.

At any rate, I can soon make available, for general use, an updated photo of
myself from the AHA NHC.  Since Fred wasn't there to keep me in line (He
claimed to be bedridden with an old bowling injury, but an olfactory
evaluation would indicate another infected colostomy bag).  If Todd's
outdoor camera worked indoors, I'm told I was photographed getting into the
hottub relatively naked.  OK- totally.  I'll have to electronically reduce
and obscure the naughty bits and airbrush out the stolen merchandise, but I
digress.

I did try to get photos of myself with various and sundry notables,
dignitaries and brewing world potentates.  If the indoor photos turned out,
I'll post them to a website with appropriate commentary.

All in all, the event was outstanding, the beer was incredible and the
people watching was top-notch.  If, in my pre-hottub photo-op drunken
obnoxiousness state, I inadvertently scared you away from the Primetime
Brewers table before you could sample my Belgian wit, I sincerely apologize.
I was told it was quite good.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI






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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:18:57 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Surprised at the 2000 AHA NHC

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Wow! What a great time the National Homebrewers' Conference was! And what a
surprise for Karl and I to to receive the AHA Recognition Award for our work
on the HBD!

As I think of it, perhaps I was to make an acceptance speech? Dunno - my
state of shock and surprise would have precluded it, anyway. If I had,
though, it would go something like this...

*******************

Wow! I never expected anything like this! This is great! Wow!

I suppose I should start by thanking those that have contributed to this
moment: First, my family - particularly The Lovely Kim - who allow me the
time to operate the Digest and do Things Beery. To the AHA for providing
Karl and I the opportunity to run the Digest and to Karl Lutzen and Scott
Abene for talking me into it. To all those who have kicked in money and
material to build and maintain the Digest servers. Again, to my partner Karl
for bringing me from believing that unix is the plural form of eunuch to
actually being functional in it. But, especially, to all those who post
material to and read the Digest daily - without you, there'd little point to
doing it at all. I've been heard in the past admonishing the BJCP that home
brewers' are not for the BJCP, but that the BJCP is for home brewers. Well,
that's doubly true for the HBD. Without the home brewers who have supplied,
discussed and learned from the information within our electronic pages, we'd
be nothing at all. And to the AHA BOA who not only made the decision to
bestow this great honor onto Karl and I, but managed to keeping it a secret
from me from the time I was elected to the board.

When I meet HBDers, many point out that being a Janitor is such a thankless
job. It's far from that, my friends. Besides all the thanks received in
person and in email - and now this award, I find running the Digest to be a
fun and edifying experience. I've learned much about people, personalities
and about communicating while onboard. Things that have helped me to
develop, and things I've been able to apply to other facets of my life.
Plus, I've learned things about beer and brewing, too. But, primarily,
knowing that the HBD is making quality information available to anyone who
has access to the internet and that we are able to compile and preserve
quality home brewing information for free reference is all the thanks I
need.

Thank you all! I think I'll hang this on the wall the JanitorCam points at!

*******************

But, then again, I probably couldn't have been that articulate on such short
notice. Anyway, thanks! I appreciate the award, and the input of all those
who have made it possible.

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:18:19 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bud's roots

Del "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> wrote )of Budweiser's
air stripping column):
>Whoa, a contradiction, lagers are *supposed to have
>sulfur characters as compared to ales aren't they?

Well, *our* lagers are, but who's to argue with over two billion barrels
sold?  You wouldn't want to have anything in there to offend the loyal
drinkers.

> >>Bud traces its origins not to Munich, but to Budweis <<
> (knew this would raise an eyebrow or two)
>  Well known, but what makes a pilsner, pale color or hop character?
><snip> ignoring the IBUs
>consider the hop/malt balance, is it  reasonably close to a pils?
>It's just barely a helles.
> This is my reasoning for calling it a dumbed-down helles.
>>>As a matter of fact, virtually all mainstream US lagers of today
>>are in the pilsner style, albeit much watered down by now<<
>   I just have a hard time agreeing that cuz they're pale they're
>pilsners, maybe "once upon a time" 80 years ago.

Well, here's the logic - they were very much in the pilsner style 100 years
ago, but they were dumbed down gradually, almost imperceptibly, until they
reached what they are today.  They sure aren't pilsners today, but they
aren't Helleses (sp?) either.  Where's the malt that a Helles has?  If
they're dumbed down anything, it's pilsner.

That's why we have to brew CAPs today!

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:25:59 EDT
From: Yeagermeyr at aol.com
Subject: "Corn Is Good!"

    Went to the AHA NHC 2000 show saturday and and after listening to Jeff 
Renner's talk and sampling the accompaning beers I'm forced to admit [well 
I'm not really forced, right now I'm fantasizing {flame me!!} about a big mug 
of corn beer!]. Changed my mind about CAP forever! Jeff, where can I find the 
recipe? I try searching HBD Archives but i keep getting syntax errors. 
I 100% agree!
CORN IS GOOD!!! 



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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:13:32 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: NHC CAP Handout  Part 1

Brewers

I've been asked to post the handout from my talk on CAPs at the NHC.
There was a great enthusiastic audience - standing room only, and I know
there are some more converts to the cause.  I haven't caught up on back
HBDs yet, so I don't know if there are other comments from others on the
weekend.  I'll write more later.

Note that this was not intended to be a stand alone document but rather a
handout for attendees, so it may not all be self explanatory.

Jeff

THE REVIVAL OF THE CLASSIC AMERICAN PILSNER

Presented by Jeff Renner
National Homebrew Conference 2000
Livonia, Michigan, June 22-24, 2000


Recapture your heritage!  Brew a legend!

Brewed with the same ingredients and procedures as their "mega-lager"
descendants, but with real taste, this brew has become the hottest "new"
old beer in homebrewing.

Several things mark a classic American pilsner, but most fundamental is the
use of corn (maize) and/or rice adjunct.

Corn or rice use should be kept between 20% and 30% so the malt character
isn't lost but so it doesn't predominate too much, either.  I generally use
about 22 - 25%, but go to 30% for light, crisp beers.  Raw cereals must be
incorporated in the American double mash method.  Flakes can be mashed
directly.  Mash temperature can be manipulated for fermentability.

The balance of the grain bill is traditionally six-row malt, with perhaps a
little Munich and/or Carapils, especially in lower gravity beers.

Hops are traditionally Cluster for bittering and noble or modern
derivatives for flavor and aroma.

Water should be low in alkalinity and sulfate.

Recipes

Here is my standard pre-pro CAP these days (but be sure to try a 1.046, 25
IBU post-pro one too):

"Your Father's Mustache"

5 finished beer gallons at 1.051, upper 30's IBU

7.25 lbs. six-row malt
2 lbs. corn meal*

*Or grits, polenta or coarsely ground rice, or combination of rice and corn

First Wort Hops: 3 HBU Saaz or other noble hops (3.2 HBU for pellets)
Bittering hops: (60 minutes) 5.3 HBU whole Cluster (4.8 HBU for pellets)
Flavor hops: (15 minutes) 1.5 HBU whole noble hops or Styrian Goldings (1.2
HBU for pellets)

Yeast:  Any clean lager yeast

Water: low alkalinity, low sulfate water

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.




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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:15:17 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: NHC CAP Handout Part 2

Schedule for American Double Mash for cornmeal or rice (grits and polenta
must be boiled longer):

Time 00:	In a kitchen pot, mash in corn or rice and 10 ounces of
malt with 1.5 to 2 quarts of water to hit 153F

Time 15:	Mash in main mash 104F

Time 20:	Bring cereal mash to boil

Time 30:	Cereal mash boiling

Time 35:	Add boiling water and/or burner with recirculation to ramp
main mash to 144-146F

Time 65:	Add cereal mash to main mash yield, adjust temperature as
needed to 158F

Time 95:	Ramp to 170F mashout

Time 105:	Begin sparge and lauter

As soon as kettle bottom is covered add first wort hops and maintain wort
temperature at approximately 170F during lautering.  Collect enough wort
to yield 5.25 gallons finished wort.

Boil uncovered at least 60 minutes, longer to reduce DMS.

Chill to 48F, aerate or oxygenate well, pitch yeast from large starter
(four quarts is ideal).

Ferment at 48F until fermentation nearly stops, about 10 to 14 days, rack
to secondary and reduce temperature 4F per day to 0F.  Lager six to seven
weeks.

To brew with a simple infusion mash, substitute flaked maize of rice for
the raw cereal and mash between 148F (for a very well attenuated, dry
beer) to 157F (for a richer, less well attenuated beer).

For all extract beer, use six pounds of Alexander's or William's light
liquid malt extract and 1.5 lbs rice syrup.  Steep the first wort hops in
wort at 170F for 60 minutes before bringing to a boil and adding remaining
hops.  Increase hopping rate if boiling less than full volume.

SPECIFICATIONS AND EVALUATION

As a resurrected beer style, classic American pilsner specifications are a
matter of some flux.  The AHA and BJCP style guidelines have been combined,
and while I think there are some shortcomings, they are pretty good.  I do
think that very low levels of diacetyl, which can enhance maltiness, should
be permitted, as was the case with the old AHA guidelines.

Judging can be problematic as this is a style many judges, even fine,
experienced ones, are unfamiliar with.  I have been at fault myself, as at
the MCAB 2000 finals when I faulted a big pre-prohibition beer brewed by
George Fix for being too big for style and overhopped, yet it had was
within guidelines at 1.060 and 40 IBU.  I'm pleased to say I gave it a
score of 40/50 anyhow.

Here are the important points from the BJCP guidelines for category 1C,
Classic American Pilsner:

Vital Statistics:
 OG: 1.044-1.060
IBUs: 25-40 FG: 1.010-1.015
SRM: 3-6 ABV: 4.5-6%

Aroma: Low to medium clean, grainy and sweet maltiness may be evident.
Medium to high hop aroma, often classic noble hops.  No fruitiness or
diacetyl.  Some "cooked-corn" aroma due to DMS may be noticeable.

Appearance: Light to gold color. Substantial, long lasting head.  Bright
clarity.

Flavor: Medium to high maltiness similar to the Bohemian Pilsners but
somewhat lighter due to the use of up to 30% flaked maize (corn) used as an
adjunct.  Slight grainy sweetness from the use of maize with substantial
offsetting hop bitterness.  Medium to high hop flavor from noble hops.
Medium to high hop bitterness.  No fruitiness or diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium body and rich, creamy mouthfeel. Medium to high
carbonation levels.

Comments: The classic American Pilsner was brewed both pre-Prohibition and
post-Prohibition with some differences. OGs of 1.050-1.060 would have been
appropriate for pre-Prohibition beers while gravities dropped to
1.044-1.049 after Prohibition.  Corresponding IBUs dropped from a
pre-Prohibition level of 25-40 to 20-35 after Prohibition.

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:35:04 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: bt back issues

Where are those damned emoticons when you need them.

When the two S's (Scott & Steve ) wrote ...

>Exactly, Dave Lamotte and others have justification for
>feeling a bit put-out, but a court has apparently relieved
>New Wine Press, Inc of it's obligation to us and tort law,
>not Mr.Mallery,  will determine precedence for any
>disbursements.

I don't feel put out ... I am just getting a little tired of Mr Mallory
( or more correctly people promising on his behalf) what I do not
believe that he can, will or should deliver.  

Obviously, I don't know Stephen, but everyone who does has nothing but
praise for him.  And you only had to look at BT to know what a quality
approach he took.  But he really seems to be letting himself down with a
string of broken promises.  Let's face it, a lesser man would have sold
up whatever he could and sent whatever mags were left to the tip.

So, what is the best way out - without him spending any more of his
money (because now that the business has folded, it really is his own
money).  I wish I had an answer, but I would rather see Stephen Mallory
either provide one or come out and state ' Sorry, but despite my best
intentions it is not going to happen'.  He would then be free to dispose
of any mags any way he pleased.

I am the first to admit that he has done heaps more that he was
'legally' required to do, and he will have my undying respect for the
way that he has attempted to meet his obligations (apart from the mixup
about charging my credit card, and email going unanswered).  When this
has happened to me twice before, the first that you hear is a letter
from the receiver advising that you are an unsecured creditor and where
you can go to queue up for the non-existent refunds.

Lets just follow Scott's advice and forget about it.  Hell I spend more
on brewing gadgets each month than what I lost in subscriptions !

Thanks for listening.
David
Brewing Down Under in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia

"Only a mediocre person is always at their best"


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