---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: can you overdo hop flavour? X-Hopping (Rod Prather)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Helmets (John_E_Schnupp)
  Feeding Burley To The Sharks (Doc, what category is this?) ("Philip Yates")
  Dear William, ayinger yeast (Cat 6) ("Graham Sanders")
  status quo and acetone related helmetless deaths ("Dr. Pivo")
  Questions:Diluting high gravity beer, 24 Hr Delay (Rick Pauly)
  Utter Rudeness From Down Under (New Category) ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Spirit of Belgium III (Anderson Andy W NSSC)
  RE: raspberry-wheat beer (Chris Cooper)
  Belgian Wit mashing schedule? ("John S Thompson")
  Wyeast 1272 (Am. Ale2) and recent brews ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: My First Batch (Details) ("patrick finerty jr.")
  re. The Rift ("Darryl Newbury")
  Re: Drinking Age ("Leland Heaton")
  Ommegang yeast (Frank Tutzauer)
  s. alexanders no sparge - cat. 1 ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Oh boy, I'm only a category 4/5 er! (Aaron Perry)
  True (Aaron Perry)
  Taylor & Bate Rubber Boot Brewing School (Jim Adwell)
  Not beer related: Trying to locate M. Engelhardt (Some Guy)
  Commemorative Mead created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer (eric and SUSAN)


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* 
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:47:58 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: can you overdo hop flavour? X-Hopping

Weelllll!  I've been catching up on some HBD reading having 
been on the road for almost 9 weeks since early May.  From 
San Francisco, to Cleveland to Florida to Los Angeles.  I 
have a whole cache of unread HBDs in my Inbox.  I haven't 
been to Oz but I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore,
Toto!

Graham Sanders said in HOMEBREW Digest #3376

>I am on my experimentation phase of my cycle at the moment.  
>It really pisses off SWMBO.  "You make good beer" she 
>will blast, "why the hell do have to keep trying new 
>things out" (funny she never said that about our love life 
>when she was younger and more bearable - but thats another
>story).

Remember, good beer lasts a lot longer than sex and you 
usually get a lot more beer than sex, anyway.  As you get 
older you don't lose interest in beer, you can always have 
more than one a night and beer never goes flat just when you 
want it the most.   HEY!  If more people were willing 
to experiment with beer there wouldn't be so many 
Bud drinkers.  Heck! There wouldn't be ANY Bud drinkers.  
I always thought that the only reason people like Bud is 
because it's the beer they were drinking the first time 
they got laid and they never separated the two experiences!
  
What is a SWMBO, anyway?????

Graham, your experiment with a 60 gram FWH of Hallertauer 
assuming 4.50 alpha for a 60 minute boil would give you a 
whopping 42.5 IBU.  Too much bitterness even for most 
seasoned hop heads.  The problem isn't too much flavor and 
aroma, just too much bitterness.  42 IBU is quite a shocker.

This Extreme Hopping (X-Hopping) subject interests me.  I 
have read a bit on the FWH and the idea that it imparts 
flavor. Haven't tried it, haven't had time.  The problem is 
that FWH also imparts bittering.  It has always been my 
feeling that late hopping or dry hopping is the source of 
flavor and/or aroma in most classic beers.

Here's my question.  Can you over Dry Hop/Late hop a beer. 
For example, use no initial bittering hops and add 6 oz 
(170 grams) of 4.5 alpha Noble hops with 5 minutes remaining 
in the boil.  This would theoretically set the IBU at about 
20 for a 5 gallon brew while leaving much of the flavor and 
aroma intact.  Another concept would be 1/4 oz (7g.) at 
60 minutes and 4.5 oz. (127g) at 5 minutes for a similar 20
IBU. 

Beyond being obviously wasteful, would this impart an
extreme 
flavor and extreme aroma to the beer without kicking the 
alpha acids into an unpalatable range? (6 oz at 60 minutes 
would supply an outrageously medicinal 120 IBU).
Remembering also that although theoretically hopping at zero 
minutes imparts no bittering, this is in practice impossible 
because of the time it takes the boiling vessel to drain 
through a cooling system.  One would have to consider this 
cooling lag when extreme hopping in this manner by
decreasing 
the quantity to compensate for the BV drain time.  

Any Comments??????
-- 
Rod Prather
Indianapolis, Indiana





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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:36:26 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

> From: "Hugh Hoover" <hugh.hoover at software.com>
>Subject: 48 hour lag!
>I normally use Windsor
>by Danstar, but I had 6 packs of the Whitbread, so...
>
>I started the yeast as recommended, 2 sachets in about
>200 mls of ~100F water for 14 minutes (couldn't wait
>that last minute :) then I added 1Q of 1.040 canned
>starter wort, set it on the stir plate and let it go at medium
>speed (enough to stir, no major vortex).  I let it sit & stir for
>the duration of the brewing (about 5 hours to knockout).
>>O2 added right after all the  wort (11 gals) is in the (open)
>fermentor.
>
>About 4 hours after pitching, I >thought< I saw slight signs
>of fermentation... I went to bed.
>Next day, no real signs of fermentation... a few bubbles now
>and again... ok, don't panic... I let it sit...
>That evening, still nothing - ok, panic!  I added another pack
>of the Whitbread directly - just sprinkled on the surface.
>4 hours later, still nothing, so I really panic and toss in a
>partially done starter from a culture - 100 mls with a
>noticeable layer of yeast on the bottom.  Next morning,
>definite signs of fermentation, that evening, nice high kreusen.
>48 hours.  I'm really testing my sanitation this time...
>
>Ok, here's the kicker... This is the 3rd time I've tried this
 .yeast, with similar results...  The first two times, the yeast
>came from a completely different supplier (different parts
>of the country even!).  I'm beginning to suspect it's not me...
>
>So, back to the first question, is this just bad yeast? or
>did I really do something wrong?  I DO store it in the freezer.
>(Clayton Cone question: is it good, bad, or indifferent to store
>dry yeast in the freezer?)


Hugh,
     I originally saw your question as simply a freezer/fridge
debate...there's more than that here...
     I have in my brewpub days ..stored in a coldroom  at  35F....homebrew days
before that in the kitchen freezer...all with good results...
     Consulting with Dr. Cone over the past years, and with regard to his
revival of the Admiral Byrd Antarctic dry yeasts has had me on the track of
optimal storage being in the freezer....(if one can revive dry yeasts that
don't meet optimal drying methods, some decades later, after an Antarctic
freeze, why should I disagree?)
     And the answer is....freezing/refrigeration offer much the same benefit
to the homebrewer/homebrew shop owner...extended shelf life.....over room
temp storage....

     Dry yeasts suffer loss of viability,  at  room temps, of approximately 20
percent per year....fridge storage lowers viability losses to approximately
4 percent per year....freezer storage will decrease that .....
     Allowing yeasts stored in cold conditions to attemperate to room temps
over an half hour...prior to rehydration/attemperation will be helpful....

     But your problem goes deeper....and in your own words....here it is...

>I started the yeast as recommended, 2 sachets in about
>200 mls of ~100F water for 14 minutes (couldn't wait
>that last minute :) then I added 1Q of 1.040 canned
>starter wort, set it on the stir plate and let it go at medium
>speed (enough to stir, no major vortex).
> I let it sit & stir for
>the duration of the brewing (about 5 hours to knockout).

     You should rehydrate, yes, but use a pint or so with 10 grams of yeast,
and then attemperate with chilled wort of the same volume for 15
minutes...optimum.....

     BUT, using a stir plate over 5 hours, with ANY dry yeast defeats the
intent of the yeast manufacturer....I always used my dry yeast within 30
minutes of chiller start.....then finished filling the fermentor, while I
was cleaning up....

     This is not to say that your method won't work...but it is not
necessary.....obviously, in your case...it doesn't work...and negates the
value of using dry yeast....

     In our case, Lallemand builds into the yeast, prior to Fluid Bed
Drying, optimal amounts of nutrients, like glycogen and trehalose,
sufficient to rehydrate over 15/60...and to attemperate over 15/60....
     ....spinning it in wort for 5 hours defeats our intent.....and does not
provide you with your best fermentative effort....I assume that these
Whitbread yeasts will behave in a similar manner...
     Indeed, our yeast is optimimised for pitching within 30-40 minutes of
rehydration....
     I think, without respect to storage/viability....(which may be an
issue)..you are not giving your yeast your best effort....

     And as for testing your sanitation, I agree....In more ways than
one.....

     (Personally, bottom line, I would also question the viability of your
yeast...storage/time?....perhaps even before you acquired it?)

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand

The Jethro Gump Report "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I
Need To Know More About Beer!"



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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:02:48 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: Re: Helmets

>Subject: Helmets

WTF is this.  A helmet thread on HBD.  Guess I'll go on over
to the Sportster list or Harley digest and see if they're
discussing brewing.  Next thing you know we'll discussing the
synthetic v. dyno oils or if it's acceptable to plug tires.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:38:16 +1000
From: "Philip Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Feeding Burley To The Sharks (Doc, what category is this?)

It is indeed true that I have on rare occasions posted in other than
category 5.

It is also true that I once aspired to being a Port Douglas Dive Boat
Captain, I wanted to be of some use to the world.
But as history relates, "Irvine Good Time Reef Tours" offered the job to a
more callous individual and left me in Burradoo, drinking myself into
oblivion and dreaming of what might have been.

But tonight I am enraged about something else, and it's into the crocodile
swamp I wade with Dave Burley held above my head. Don't want the crocs to
get him cos I'm planning to deliver him to Port Douglas with a free ticket
on the Doc's very next dive trip. Well that's probably a bit harsh. But here
is my gripe :
I've been riding motorbikes for over thirty years, and just quietly, I've
been drinking beer for almost as long.
A few things I have noted about wearing helmets :
 -You can't hear an effing thing!!! Which is bloody dangerous.
 -Those full face jobs very much restrict your vision.
Which is also bloody dangerous.

I will admit that long ago we on occasions would ride home from the pub at
night seeing double vision. It was easier if you rode with one eye closed.
I will admit that it was a problem stopping at the lights when intoxicated -
we depended on the gyroscopic effect to keep us upright.
But they were wild days indeed, and a long time ago.
These days I am a far more responsible chap enjoying a few homebrews with
feet firmly on the ground at home.
As my highly respected posts would indicate!

Dave,
Save the lectures for your children or grandchildren. Or any other of your
friends inclined to strain themselves through truck grilles or fly off
cliffs. I don't recommend either activity, with or without a helmet.
Perhaps also you would like to suggest to every push bike and skate board
rider that they should wear full leathers and crash hat.

I could argue a good many points in favour of the motorcycle. But I will
have another homebrew instead.

In Burradoo Dave, if the baron was not seen every morning at 6.00am riding
home on his motorcycle wearing nothing but jocks and singlet - well they'd
figure
something had gone horribly wrong in the brewery.

Cheers
Phil








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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:39:22 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Dear William, ayinger yeast (Cat 6)

G'day All

Now Adam wasn't slow on the uptake

>Thanks to Bill for providing plenty of laughs by lumping Graham in with the
gentlemen from "South of the border".  I could hear him choke from the other
side of the continent.<

Choke aint the word, Fair upchucked a weeks worth of drinking in one go.
William Frazier has a lot to answer for.  The shit I have coped it from
those southerners.  Fancy dear William putting a North Queenslander in the
same camp as a cockroach.  Insulted all Aussies in one breath. Now get your
famous map out MATE, and shade this area, North of Sarina to Thursday
Island, West to Mt Isa, No make that West to Broome.  Your now a wanted man
in these areas.  If the salties, rampant green frogs, taipans or irrate
locals don't get you first, SWMBO is on the warpath, and thats definitely
not a pretty sight.

 Not even your appology will cut it, no matter how sorry you are. On the
other hand, a carton of your wine, and a keg of your best was to arrive on
my doorstep toot sweet, I might grant you a permit.  Then the locals can
take you their favourite swimming hole for a well earned swim.

Reminds me, Dr Pivo and Phil are welcome, provided they pay the required
carton fee as they pass my door.  Just make sure William's on that dive trip
will you.
- ---------

Now Phils drug induced hyper-active ayinger yeast went thru my hells like my
mango lambic went thru me, and after two weeks fermenting it has now been
put to bed into secondary.  All said and done, it performed wonderfully and
as good as any lager yeast I have got.  Its now has to pass a proper North
Queensland Triangular test, but thats at least another month away.  At this
stage, and this is early days yet, its well on the way to becoming my German
light (coloured) stock standard yeast.  But thats slurping the dregs out of
the primary to make that statement.

- ---------

oh whats Cat 6 , well thats NTH QLD issues that piss me right off, eh
William, make sure you bring your togs.

Shout

Graham Sanders



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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:58:29 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: status quo and acetone related helmetless deaths

Ahhh, how nice. Everything back where it should be. Dave Burley telling
us how to legislate people's behaviour according to his personal
anecdotes (psssst! Dave! Here's a hint.... the people who would like to
make the selling and imbibing of alcoholic beverages illegal have
exactly the same personally emotion loaded arguments, which I'm quite
sure they feel as strongly about, and have plenty of personal examples
to make you feel like a heel if you don't agree with them.)

Ain't these yanks fun! Everything's either legal and you can get sued for
it. or they make it illegal!

And Steve fell right off his wobbily "one night stand" on the category
one, three platform and fell face first in the "number two".

> Acetone is pretty solid evidence of a clostridium infection.

the taste and smell of acetone is no evidence of anything at all except
it's own existance.... except in Steve's didactic world.... this is
even better...

> The same carbo utilizing
> clostridium that produce these by-products may produce butyric acid,

Does he perchance thinks it's Clostridia perifringens? in a beer culture?!?

No wait... I get it.  Steve's just trying to wind his way back to his
favourite Clostridia of all.... IT'S THE BOTULISM THREAD!!!

I don't think Steve had finished saying all he had to say on that subject.

Pat, certainly you could see your way to donating a few gigabytes for
Steve to wax on the issue?

It could be pretty entertaining to see if his microbiology knowledge is
on a par with his Illinois legislature and geography.

> This beer needs to be dumped not repaired.  Heroic efforts to resuscitate
> a seriously infected beer are wasted.

Ah yes. The attitude that has kept Steve from learning how to make beer,
and encouraging others not to do it as well, and keeps him just talking
about it: "I think it must be so, therefore there is no point in continuing."

Any wahoo, the resultant 'spurment was tasty, and I suspect as one sharp
witted private poster suggested when having a similar problem with a
stuck mead, that this particularly foul flavour, was a metabolary
intermediate that was able to be further metabolised later down the
track with the same culture in another condition, and SUBMITTED to other
conditions.(but I'd hate to continue in that vain... getting a little
"two-ish".  More importantly it worked, and might be a handy trick for
others to try if a similar problem crops up)

Anyway, thanks to all the other "fourish" private posters who have
reported similar things in everything from sourdough cultures to mead.

The bad news is that Steve says we are all harbouring anaerobic cultures
that have  brought us such delightful things as lock-jaw (tetanus),
gangrene, botulism, and "hospital diarrea" (difficile), and we will all
soon be dead.... in fact, I'm not feeling so well myself......

Aaaaaaaargggghh.... sputter...... uuuuurrr..


D...r...
        .......

               P...

thump. "ouch!"

(damn. shoulda' had my helmet on when sitting at this keyboard and
drinking infected beer... there oughta' be a law.)


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:10:37 -0400
From: Rick Pauly <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: Questions:Diluting high gravity beer, 24 Hr Delay

I am trying to squeeze more beer from each brewing session and this weekend
I brewed eleven gallons of 1.072 pilsner that I plan to dilute to 15
gallons when I keg it.

I plan to use filtered,boiled and cooled water but are there any other
things I should take into consideration, like pH?

Also, since I have started using a counter flow chiller I have run into the
problem this summer of having 75F tap water which only gets my wort down to
83F. 
I don't want to pre-chill the tap water with ice so I'm thinking of just
filling the fermenter and letting it sit in the fridge overnight and
pitching the yeast the next day.
Any thoughts?

Thanks

Rick Pauly
Charlottesville,VA


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:17:36 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Utter Rudeness From Down Under (New Category)

Dr Stephen Alexander, Chief of Category Two Posts, writes in typical
patronising fashion :
>who says 'low beer content' posts are just for Aussies ?
> -S

I don't think anyone did Steve.
Maybe just a few souls who read the HBD enjoy a little more from our hobby
than recitations of scientific brewing publications.

You should not feel threatened by this Steve.
You are the undisputed king of "Category Two"

But, like Steve Lacey,
perhaps from time to time you should take a Bex,
and have a good lie down.

Cheers
Phil














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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:53:55 -0400
From: Anderson Andy W NSSC <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium III

Greetings,
	This is an advance notice of an upcoming homebrew contest. 

        In January 13-14 of 2001 (the MLK holiday weekend), BURP (Brewers
United for Real Potables) will be hosting the 3rd Spirit of Belgium. This
will be a two-day event celebrating the best of Belgian beer and cuisine.
The whole event will encompass a conference with Michael Jackson as the
keynote speaker, multiple Belgian beer tastings, a banquet, and a homebrew
contest. BURP previously hosted a Spirit of Belgium in both 1994 and 1996.
Some of the material presented in those conferences ended up in both Brewing
Techniques and Zymurgy. We believe that this conference will be just as
informative. Please check our web page at www.burp.org to learn more.

	However, I am not writing at this early time just to advertise the
Spirit of Belgium. Rather, I am giving brewers advance notice so that they
can start brewing their award winning Belgian ales. The caliber of judges
for the homebrew contest should be the highest possible, so here is your
chance to both compete against the best brewers of Belgian ales as well as
receive feedback from some of the best judges around the country.

	Anyway, that's enough of my rambling for now. The main reason I
wrote today was to get brewers started on their brewing. Hopefully, I've
whetted your appetite. If there are any questions concerning the homebrew
contest portion of this festival, please let me know. As for the entire
Spirit of Belgium, in the months to come you will hear more about the whole
festival. So for now, get those brewpots boiling J

Prost,

Andy Anderson
2001 Spirit of Belgium
Homebrew Contest Organizer


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:58:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject:  RE: raspberry-wheat beer

Mikela asks about making a raspberry wheat brew.  I have experimented 
with this on several occasions with the following thoughts.  If you 
are going to use fresh raspberrys I would suggest putting them into
the secondary ferment.               

Another suggestion is to first freeze the fruit to help break down the 
pulp.  Adding fruit to the secondary also allows the yeast to get a 
great headstart on anything wild in the fruit.  

DON'T PUT THEM IN THE BOIL, you will set the pectin in the fruit and 
your beer will be VERY cloudy, also any raspberry flavor will be 
boiled off!

Even putting fresh fruit in the primary tends to diminish the flavor
and definitely the aroma contribution (especially if the the primary
ferment is very active).

In the case of raspberry I have found that using a prepared extract
(such as Carlson's Raspberry Flavor) added at bottling time gives the
most predictable and controllable results.  

I have standardized on using the extract in my perennial "Steamin Raspberry
Wheat" (a pale ale, with 20% torrified wheat fermented with Calif. Common, 
"Chico", yeast).  I save the fresh fruit from my backyard raspberry vines
for mead making.


Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) 
Commerce, Michigan    Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild
(Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian)



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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:46:31 -0500
From: "John S Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu>
Subject: Belgian Wit mashing schedule?

I recently brewed a Wit with the following recipe and mashing schedule...

6 gallons:

5.0 lbs. wheat malt
5.0 lbs. pils malt
0.5 lb. flaked oats

40 min.  at  122F (protein rest)
90 min.  at  152F (sac. rest)
45 min.  at  170F (mashout and sparge)

This is a much more liberal mashing schedule than my normal one. And yet, I
got pretty disappointing efficiency. I usually have no problem getting 75%
and this time I got closer to 65%. Any suggestions on a better mashing
schedule?

Thanks.
John



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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:12:15 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1272 (Am. Ale2) and recent brews

HI everyone:

Just wanted to relay my experience with Wyeast 1272 American Ale 2 yeast.
Lets just say that its a vigorous fermentor.  I used it on a 5 gallon IPA
(1.062 and 62IBU via Tinseth) and pitched it after I think a 3x scale up
from smackpack.  The following morning (pitched at 11PM) it had a nice 1"
foam head in the 6.5 gal fermentor.  By the time I came home from work the
airlock was full.  I installed a nice 1" blowoff and left it alone for a few
days.  3 days later, the head seemed to have died down so I gave it a little
shake and removed hose and replaced with airlock.  Wake up next morning to
find airlock again full so I replace with hose again for 3 days.  It seems
to have died down again so I'll hopefully be racking in a day or 2 to
secondary.

Lessons learned: 1272 seems to be a good top-cropping neutral yeast.  very
firm head on the fermentor the whole time.  this is my first time using this
yeast so hopefully I'll enjoy the taste. I will be measuring FG on racking
so will have another data point in a day or two.  It was fermented in
64-66degF range also.

On other news, I have a nice Belgian triple 1.096 OG that is happily
bubbling like mad with Wyeast 1214 that was quadrupple scaled up since I
didn't want to brew a batch of Belgian pale ahead of time.  Hope it will
finished up low enough. Grain bill was 19 lb DWC pils grain, 1 lb belgian
aromatic, 1 lb light candi sugar.Extraction looks a bit low since I batch
spage and don't draw alot of second runnings into the boil kettle.  My first
time brewing an all-grain belgian and my first belgian in maybe a year.
drank a nice delirium tremens and a Dolce somethingorother from the belgian
brewery in eastern canada while I was brewing this.  They were very nice and
I hope my Tripple can compare.  Might try the Belgian Wit yeast next time
though as I hear that its better profilewise for a tripple.

Thats about it.  Ohh yeah, I have a 3 week old imperial stout in secondary
that was fermented with 1056 from 1.078 down to about 1.020.  Looking good
so far and tasting pretty nice at racking.  Another week and it'll be in the
keg for some time with the old dry hops.  Its been a good big beer year so
far - 2 barley wines in late January, the above imperial, the above belgian,
a wee heavy planned for SEptember and maybe another barley wine or 2 for
this fall as well.  Yeah baby!!!

Regards,
Pete czerpak
albany, ny


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:23:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: My First Batch (Details)

hi folks,

Leland writes about his brew and suggests the high T might have been a
problem.

i don't know where you live but i suggest trying to make use of
evaporative cooling to keep the wort/beer at a lower temperature.
before i started doing this many of my brews had a similar, fruity
type flavor that wasn't something i really liked. i'm fairly sure it
was a combination of the type of yeast i used and fermentation temps
in the mid to low 70s.

to keep the beer cool, just get the following items:

1) a fan
2) a shallow plastic storage container (the under the bed type works
   well) 
3) a towel

put the carboy/bucket in the container. get the towel soaking wet and
wrap it around the carboy. aim the fan at the carboy. the container
keeps the water from trashing your carpet/floor and acts a resevoir
for water with the towel acting as a wick so anything that holds water
will do.

i can drop the temp of my beer at least 10 deg F this way. that's
pretty good considering the high humidity here in Toronto (well, it's
not *that* bad, but i used to live in the desert).

 -patrick in Toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
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		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:18:02 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com>
Subject: re. The Rift

I have to concur with Bob Boland's comment that there is absolutely no
rift between us Canucks and the St Louis Brews.  To the best of my foggy
memory everything about the trip to St Louis was thoroughly enjoyed by all
of the Canadians who attended.  The conference was great, Bob recommended
a fabulous restaurant called Ciseros to us, and one of the Brews
generously made sure we got to the airport on time so we could return home
safely. 

For those who missed that thread a few months back, John Sullivan of St
Louis misconstrued a tougue and cheek comment by a Canadian brewer (who
didnt attend MCAB) regarding the prestige of different conferences. After
a clarification, John quickly apologized - that's about all there is to
it. The only bad blood that we have with anyone in St Louis is one
unscrupulous taxi driver (but thats another story). The only other
possible complaint I might have is that pint glasses down there sure are
small. Sorry to throw water on your fire Brian, you'll have to look
elsewhere for your Brew Wars. 

Cheers Darryl
Toronto, Ontario (where a pint equals 20 fluid ounces)



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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:13:10 PDT
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Drinking Age

Ok...I am new to hbd.  I am new to brewing.  I am actually new to being 21.  
(June 26, that is why I started brewing).  I too used to think that if I had 
to register for the draft, why couldn't I drink.  In Europe, (I believe) the 
drinking age is 18.  But if you get caught drunk driving, goodbye life 
(Anyone can correct me if I am wrong).

I was drinking one night with my roomate's girlfriend while he was at work.  
He gave his girlfriend a kiss took A **SIP** of beer, and decided he was 
hungry.  Living in the dorms, and being 12:30am limited our options.  So we 
went to the local Thousand Oaks Jack in the Box (high school hangout).  It 
just happened to be a holiday (I don't remember which one).  As we pulled 
into the parking lot, we saw the infamous red and blue behind us.  One of 
his liscence plate lights was out.  The police, smelled alcohol (from me and 
my roomates girlfriend).  Sobriety check time.  We were then given an option 
by the police.  They realized that we were responsible, not doing anything 
wrong (they were trying to get the drunken highschoolers) so our options 
were as follows.  1) Go to jail or 2) Be given a ride home by the police.  
Thought about it for a 1/2 second and decided to take the ride home.  We got 
in the back of the cop car (I still thought it was a trick to get us in the 
car), and the officer asked if we still wanted to go get food.  I didn't 
want to push our luck (I was thankful for the ride home) but the officer 
bought our late night snack for us.  Then took us crusing around town in a 
police car.  He then convinced me to do a ridealong (I have done two now, 
one of which we were first on the scence at the only stabbing in T.O. that 
year).  But I was mad.  Why couldn't we drink.  I discovered this recently.

Some kids are not able to handle alcohol.  The law is to prevent this minors 
from receive readily available alcohol.  It was not hard for me to drink 
under 21, so anyone who wants to drink can, but be aware of the 
consequences.  I support the alcohol laws, but I don't blame the kids.  I 
was raised by my parents to respect alcohol (that is my interest in 
brewing).  So I blame all other parents for not teaching their kids about 
alcohol.  My dad was an alcoholic until my mother divorced him when I was 9. 
  I love my dad and spend every second I can with him.  He was the one who 
taught me respect.  When respect is achieved, then the laws can be lifted 
(in my opinion).

I am sorry to rant, but it is something I feel strongly about.

R. Leland Heaton JR.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Ommegang yeast

I used this yeast in a Saison from Clonebrews last summer.  Just grew it
up from a bottle of Hennipen.  Fermented fine in the mid 70s.  I got a
little banana in the nose, but not much.  It did take longer to finish
than I expected (three weeks instead of my usual two).  The beer was good,
and the starter was absolutely the best tasting starter I've ever tasted!

frank




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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:23:41 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: s. alexanders no sparge - cat. 1

This is a response to S. Alexanders notes on no sparge vs sparge.
Unfortunately, I do not really either but instead run my batch sparge fairly
short.

For example my procedure to make 5 gallons of 1.065 ale:
use about 5 gallons 172F water, mash in about 14-15 lbs grain, temp settled
about 152-156F, mash for 90 minutes (no stirring, I'm lazy), drain first
runnings to get about 3-3.5 gallons of first runnings, gravity in range of
1.085-1.095.  add 2 gallons 172-174degF water and stir and set bed for
15-20minutes.  drain second runnings and combine to yield about 5-5.25
gallons total. bring to boil for about 60 minutes adding hops as appropriate
and immersion chill and make up to 5 final gallons.

Steve notes that sparge beers have better and often "much" better head.  I
would agree only such that my beers for the most part have a not very long
lasting head.  and they are carbonated right via keg and door mount tap
system. i have never run a traditional continuouus sparge though so am only
offering head comparison to commercial tap brewpubs beers like DePiros at
the Pumpstation in Albany.  even the heads on my irish stouts (using 1.5 lb
flaked barley in a 15 lb batch) and some of my IPAs containing a bit of
wheat seem to have not long lasting heads.

Steve also notes that sparge beers clear faster and are better in final
clarity.  I have gotten some contest remarks that my short batch sparge pale
ales like my IPAs are a bit on the cloudy side (maybe chill haze.... maybe a
product of non-continuous sparge).  Doesn't seem to hurt too much as they
still garner some ribbons but the haze was something I haven't targetted as
fixable yet.

As all my brews are short batch sparged, I can't comment on which keg
empties first other than to say that I always seem to be running out of
beer.  Anyways, hope this info is helpful to someone contemplating giving
batch sparge, or short sparging, or no-sparging a thought.

I plan on continuing in my current method as it minimizes amount of
equipment that I need and it has worked pretty well so far.  using my fairly
new 10 gallon Gott (maybe 5 batches old) rather than the oven and 5 gallon
mash pot is nice though.  I just don't want to buy another vessel or have to
store another one for a sparge tank since I currently use an old 4 gallon
stainless pot for sparge H2O heating.

Comments on my or Steves experiences??

Pete czerpak
albany, NY
 


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:12:32 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Oh boy, I'm only a category 4/5 er!

 -S Writes about what I wrote:


>>Aaron Perry says 
>> Dr. Pivo writes about acetone in his brew, and the removal of it by 
>> "krausen lagering".  Pretty slick.

>This is about as "slick" as the Food Lion remixing rancid ground
>beef with fresh to "remove" the off flavors.

Such a small amount of beer added......I figured there was some scavenging
going on..

>Acetone is pretty solid evidence of a clostridium infection.  The next
>product on this trail of tears is isopropanol. The same carbo utilizing
>clostridium that produce these by-products may produce butyric acid, 
>butanol, and acetic acid depending on conditions.  None very
>dangerous to consume in v.small quantities, nor any more welcome
>in beer than Jim Liddil's autoclaved fecal matter.

Sometimes I wish I had paid attention in Biology and Chemistry!!
Here I thought the Doc was on a break through!! Acetone scavenging yeast!! 
Then Steve has to tell us that what we have is light beer instead:>  "carbo 
>utilizing clostridium....." Less carbos = light beer...right?!;-) . So the 
Doc is a Genius after all!  He's invented a new method of light beer 
production!!  At worst it's on par with cooked poop which is what most 
light beers seem to be about any how...
 Hail Pivo!!  Strong work!


AP

Ps. This is meant mostly as a category 5. No offence to -S, he has helped me
out more times than he knows!

Happy brewing to all (even those in Canada!)


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:24:11 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: True

 -S also says:

>So Ted Kennedy & Steve Forbes are your forces for correcting
>irrational governance ?   When does the next inner tube leave
>for Cuba ?

Lest's Just say I'm a MA resident..err, ahhh

Also:beer , brewing, mash etc....

AP


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:16:05 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: Taylor & Bate Rubber Boot Brewing School

Taylor & Bate brewery in St. Catharines, Ontario, in the Niagara Falls
area,  is offering the Rubber Boot Brewing School in October, 2000.  This
is a 2 1/2 day intensive brewing course, 2 dinners, 2 lunches, 2
breakfasts, with beer, of course.  The cost is $395 Canadian, and includes
all meals and most refreshments, rubber boots and overalls, and "a whole
lot of fun".  They have also reserved a block of rooms at the local Ramada
Parkway Inn for $79 a room per night for those interested.

The course is for "homebrewers wanting to better understand and perfect the
process", among others.

I have no affliation with Taylor & Bate.  They make a fine beer, though,
and have won several awards, or so I'm told.  I visited the brewery last
week, and got a chance to talk to the head brewer, and the owner, Tim
Taylor, and sampled their Niagara Spray lager (great beer!).  BTW, $1
Canadian is about 60 cents US right now, making this an even better deal
for those in the US. 

You can contact Taylor & Bate at:

75 St. Paul Street
St Catharines, Ontario L2R 3M3
905-682-0268
brewery at vaxxine.com
www.taylorandbatebrewery.com

Don't contact me, 'cause I don't know anything else than what's here. :)

Cheers, Jim
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:44:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Not beer related: Trying to locate M. Engelhardt

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I'm trying to locate Manfred (Fred) Engelhardt who, at least at one time,
was a home brewer. He was last known to reside in California, but lived as
a youth on Cabot in Canton, MI. If you know him, could you please have him
contact me at pbabcock at hbd.org. If he asks "why", tell him Mickey Long
needs to get in touch with him.

Thanks...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:26:45 -0500
From: eric and SUSAN <erica at isunet.net>
Subject: Commemorative Mead created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer

At a recent Ames' Brewers' League meeting  I had the opportunity to
sample a small amount of the Commemorative Mead served at the 2000 AHA
National Homebrewers Convention created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer.  I must
say that I
was not prepared for, nor did I correctly anticipate, what was set
before
me.  As I consumed the most astonishing drink I had ever tasted I was
told a saddening story of how this mead came into existence.  I would
just like to comment on the mead and Dr. Pfeiffer's great achievment.

As a recent newlywed my wife and I were given a small bottle of
commecially produced mead as a sort of traditional wedding gift.  We had

never before tasted mead and we were both looking forward to tasting
this honey brew which came so highly recommended by my homebrewering
friends. When we opened the bottle our experience was, well, less than
expected and down right terrible.  The mead had the flavor of old
socks.  It was all I could do to finish a small glass. Susan took one
taste and gave up.  We were both dumbfounded and confused as to the hype

and regard for such a concoction.  Needless to say, I vowed never to
drink mead again and gave up every thought of creating my own.

When it comes to beer and wine I am pretty open minded so at the club
meeting I decide to join my fellow brewers in tasting the commemorative
drink and toasting Bill Pfeiffer.  After tasting the mead, I was shocked

and elated by what I had consumed.  As a new brewer I can not correctly
describe what I tasted, but I can say that this drink was without a
doubt one of the finest beverages to ever cross my palate.  What made
this mead so much better than the previous mead?  How was it made?
Could I reproduce the results, if even partially?  Who was the fellow
who made this?  Was there any more?  I did some reseach on the web and
in past Zymurgy magazines to learn more about Bill and his exceptional
talent for brewing.  I learned of Dr. Pfeiffer's accomplishments, his
stewardship and his great following of friends.  While I never knew Dr.
Pfeiffer, he has inspired me to follow in his footsteps.  I wanted to
find the recipe for his commemorative mead, but I have since decided to
let that small sample be my introduction to Dr. Pfeiffer.  I am now
planning on fermenting my own version of a cherry mead and only hope
that it will turn out half as good.  Thanks, Bill, for sharing your
talents and allowing me to taste the Nectar of the Gods.


Eric Armstrong
Ames, Iowa



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