---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Removing labels (RoniBoni44)
  Re: dry hopping/fruiting (KMacneal)
  Re bottle labels (Edward Doernberg)
  Brew Kegs/Kettles ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  RE: Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold (SW) James Pensinger" <pensinger at deyo.navy.mil>
  re:Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold. ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Gonzo Hopping Levels ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Temperature controllers (fridgeguy)
  RE: Home Brew Beer Labels ("Pat Babcock")
  Cold rooms - part 3 (fridgeguy)
  Cold rooms - part 4 (fridgeguy)
  Cold rooms - part 5 (fridgeguy)
  Spence's GI tract (Jonathan Peakall)
  Sour Tatse? ("beerbarron  ")
  Battle of the Belly Button Buldge ("Spence")
  Re: denver area homebrew shops (Dave Thayer)
  re: why clearer beer w/ sparging? ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: Fermenter additions vs. Infection ("Stephen Alexander")
  Removing labels (LyndonZimmermann)
  Oxygen Regulators (WayneM38)


* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:11:27 EDT
From: RoniBoni44 at aol.com
Subject: Removing labels

My favorite way to remove labels from a bottle is to get the paper off by 
soaking (I run 'em through the dishwasher).  Then get the glue off by using 
Goo Gone or a similar product.  If you can't find any of that stuff, acetone 
will do it, but it can be a pain depending upon the glue used.

Veronica


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:20:56 EDT
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: dry hopping/fruiting

In a message dated 7/22/2000 12:17:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< omething I've been curious about for a while now:  When you dry hop, or add
 anything to the beer after the boil (i.e. fruit to secondary), it strikes me
 that this is a primo way to get an infected beer.  From the reading I've
 done, and from the posts I've seen, I know this is a relatively standard
 procedure (and I've oft been tempted to do it, too), but I've never seen the
 issue of infection addressed.  Anyone wanna take a crack at it?
 
 Also, it seems that if you were to add anything bulkier than hop pellets,
 especially something you want to remove again, you'd have to use something
 like a corny keg or an open fermenter.  Any other ideas? >>

I've made a few batches of fruit beer by adding the fruit to the secondary.  
I wash it & then freeze the fruit in plastic bags.  When it's time to add it 
to the beer, I mash it up in the bags, and pour it through a santized wide 
mouth funnel into my glass carboy and rack the beer on top.  I haven't had 
any apparent issues with infection.

I've dryhopped several ales with hop plugs.  I must admit they don't seem to 
have the shelf life of my non-dryhopped brews.  They tend to get a bit 
overcarbonated with time.  It's not a fatal flaw as beer doesn't linger too 
long at my house.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA


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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:36:18 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: Re bottle labels

I normally manage with cold water but I resonantly had some difficulties.
After 2 weeks the labels were firmly attached. So I added some dishwasher
detergent. Now I'm too afraid to put beer in them. Any advice?

Edward



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 08:33:46 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: Brew Kegs/Kettles

For an inexpensive LEGAL cut keg for brewing, take a look at SABCO at:

http://www.kegs.com/brandnew250l.html

(no affiliation, just a satisfied customer)  They call it a Turkey Fryer.
It comes with only a half coupling while their beer kettles come with a
double (full) coupling.  To compensate for the half coupling, take a short
1/2 inch brass nipple (pipe) and solder (with lead free solder) a piece of
1/2 inch copper pipe in it so the copper extends out a few inches on one
attach drains etc.  You may have to file the end of the brass pipe where it
is distorted from threading so that the copper pipe will slide inside.  If
you slide the copper pipe all the way into the brass pipe, your wort or
other brewing fluids will not be exposed to the brass.

Reif Hammond



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 08:53:53 -0400
From: "FC1(SW) James Pensinger" <pensinger at deyo.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold

In HBD #3384 "Perry Q. Mertz" <pqmertz at netweavers.com> wrote:

"Trying to add a couple taps to my bar.  Have a store room next door but
having real trouble finding the right place for the new frig I bought for
this new system.

I know there is a pressure drop over length of beer line, but what about
keeping it cold.  Are there hints for this?   Running the plastic line
inside of copper does that help?  How do bars do it with their long lines?
What is the max line for a typical 5 gal ball lock keg system?  Any
experience in this area would be most helpful."

Most bars have long run dispense systems that us glycol cooled beer lines.
Basically a foam tube with the beer lines and a glycol line inside.  You
could probably make something like this with a small radiator and a pump. A
source for these lines is Superior Products www.superprod.com . No
affiliation and the likes.  Have purcased a few items from them and find
them very reasonable.

As far as pressure drop on the lines for a long run system you will want a
large I.D. beer line to get a smaller per foot pressure drop.  My system
uses 1/4 id and i have 15 foot runs with 12 psi on the kegs at all times.


V/R
Mike Pensinger
beermaker at mad.scientist.com


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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 08:57:47 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold.

Perry asked, >> but what about
keeping it cold.  Are there hints for this?   Running the plastic line
inside of copper does that help?  How do bars do it with their long lines?
What is the max line for a typical 5 gal ball lock keg system?  <<

 Bars use one of two systems, one is cold glycol is run in the bundle
of beer lines up to the faucet shanks then turns around and runs back to
the cooler. There's a clamp at the shank that is a heat-sink that actually
holds the coolant line onto the faucet to chill it also. Or they have a
forced
air system where using a coaxial airduct the cold air is blown up the
center tube with the beer lines, there is a diverter that turns the air
around and sends it back through the outer shell of the air tube. A blower
runs continuously to blow air from the coldroom up the lines and back.
This is probably the most do-able system for you to use.
 There probably is no limit to how long you can make the beer lines;
to balance the system you need to know what temperature the beer is,
how long the lines will be, any vertical rise from keg to faucet, the level
of carbonation in the beers. 

Hope this help guide you,
        N.P. (Del) Lansing


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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:12:42 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: Gonzo Hopping Levels

There have been recent reports of beers with 424 IBUs.  Were these
bitterness levels measured in a lab, or estimated using an equation?
Dornbusch in his book ALTBIER states that the solubility of iso-alpha-acids
in cold beer is about 100 IBUs.  Most, if not all, equations to estimate
IBUs are based on data at "normal" hopping levels.  The equations are curve
fits of the data.  Extrapolating to estimate outside the range of the data
that the equations were developed with is the same as peering into a crystal
ball to predict Wall Street.  In the same way that you cannot predict
tomorrow, you do not know what the next higher data point would do - it may
even be the max value possible.  Inclusion of a solubility limit into the
equations would make the equations much more complex and difficult to use.

Why not have the beer measured, and post the results along with the recipe -
this would give another data point to evaluate the different bitterness
equations way outside the range they were created for?

Reif Hammond



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:18:35 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Temperature controllers

Greetings folks,

 In HBD#3384, Lou Heavner asked what would happen to his 
Johnson Controls temperature controller if the capillary tube were to 
break, or if the sensor were damaged.

 I described how this type of controller worked in a recent post, so I 
won't spend much time with details. Briefly, the sensor,  cap tube 
and a bellows are filled with a liquid/gas mixture that expands 
when heated. The bellows operate a switch as the mixture expands.

 A generic A19 series controller can be wired to "open on rise" or 
"close on rise". Rise meaning rise in temperature. Some of the 
controllers I've seen prewired for homebrewers are only usable in 
"close on rise" applications and are riveted together to prevent 
tampering.

 If the sensor bulb is partially crushed but doesn't leak, the 
calibration of the controller will be affected, but the controller will 
still function. Since the pressure in the bulb would now be higher 
than normal, the controller would think the fridge is warmer than it 
really is and would start the fridge at a lower temperature.

 If the charge inside the capillary tube and bulb is lost, as in the case 
of a cracked or broken cap tube or sensor bulb, the bellows will not 
be able to operate the switch.

 Since a brewer's controller is usually wired so the switch starts the 
fridge compressor in response to a rise in temperature, the fridge 
simply won't start.

 I've never gotten a straight answer as to just what is in the sensor. 
I've seen and smelled the stuff and I'd guess its a combination of HF 
solvent and refrigerant. It would be far cheaper to replace a damaged 
controller than it would be to try to repair one that had lost its 
charge. 

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:51:42 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: RE: Home Brew Beer Labels

Sir,

Frankly, we home brewers take offense to lines like "a dedicated home brewer
and part-time drunk". The underlying attitude behind that statement is
precisely the stigma that home brewers don't want or need. Unfortunately, it
is also precisely what goes through most people's minds when they find out a
person is a home brewer: "Oh! You must drink a lot." NO! NO! NO! Please - if
you want home brewers to support you, please have consideration for us and
what we stand for! Even if you intended your comment as good-natured,
tongue-in-cheek humor, please refrain from such references in the future.

Home brewing is NOT about producing alcohol for most of us. It is about
producing flavors, colors, aromas and textures that we find appealing and
interesting. Its the pursuit of art for some, science for others - and,
admissibly, the pursuit of oblivion for a surprisingly small number.

Did you ever notice that the same thoughts do not generally occur when
referencing those who make wine at home? But most of them drink far more
wine than home brewers do beer, and wine generally has a higher alcoholic
content than does beer. Why aren't they seen as drunks in the pursuit of
their hobby? Could it be because certain societies have been bombarded with
the lore of insipid alco-pop under the guise of "true pilsners" through
commercials showing partying drunken morons screaming such intellectual
words as "Wuzzup" at each other? Can't say for sure, but please have more
consideration in your comments. Many of us don't find them funny. Nor do we
find them acceptable.

I will forward your note on to the clubs I'm associated with. If anyone is
interested in your product, they will contact you directly.

Since I am also forwarding this to the Home Brew Digest, I have expunged
your email address and the majority message to avoid direct embarrassment. I
apologize for making "an example" of your note, but you pressed a
particularly hot button for me.

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday


- -----Original Message-----
From: Expunged
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:22 AM
To: Club Secretary
Subject: Home Brew Beer Labels


A Message to Home Brew enthusiasts,

I recently made some beer labels for my brother (a dedicated home brewer and
part-time drunk). <SNIP>



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 15:37:05 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Cold rooms - part 3

Greetings folks,

 I ended the last installment with a description of what I used for 
cold room insulation. In this installment I'll describe how I built and 
insulated the cold room panels.

 I wanted to minimize heat paths through the insulated cold room 
panels so I didn't use conventional house framing techniques. I 
instead built each panel with a perimeter 2x4 frame and used the 
rigid insulation board and wall coverings as structural members. 

 After assembling the panel frames, I cut  2" thick rigid insulation 
board to tightly fit each frame. This became the outer layer of 
insulation. I applied styrene-safe construction adhesive in a zig-zag 
pattern across the outer face of each half-insulated panel and applied 
a heavy poly vapor barrier to the insulation. I stapled the poly to the 
perimeter frame as well.

 Note that I applied the vapor barrier to the WARM side(outside) of 
the panels. My reasoning is this: Warm air can hold more moisture 
than cold air. With a perfect vapor barrier on the cold side of the 
wall, warm, moist outside air will penetrate the insulation and the 
moisture will condense as it nears the colder inner wall and remain 
there. This can cause rot and diminishes the insulation's R-factor.

 With the vapor barrier on the warm side, any moisture that finds its 
way around the vapor barrier and into the insulation will be 
removed by the refrigeration system as it dehumidifies the cold 
room. 

 I applied the same adhesive to the outer face of the vapor barrier and 
attached the outer wall coverings. I used the same melamine-faced 
hard board for inner and outer wall coverings for all but one wall 
and the roof. I used 5/8" wafer board for the roof and I used T-111 
plywood for the outer wall covering where I planned to run my taps 
through.  In addition to the adhesive, I nailed the wall covering to 
the perimeter frames.

 Next I added a 2x2 stiffener across the inside of each panel, midway 
between top and bottom. This was to help stiffen the panel and 
provide a place to screw into for any hardware or shelving inside the 
room. These were glued to the foam insulation as well as nailed to 
the perimeter frame.

 I cut 1-1/2" insulation to fill the panels and glued inner and out 
insulation panels together with construction adhesive. To complete 
the panels, I glued the inner wall covering to the inner insulation 
panels and nailed around the perimeter. 

 I needed the door to be on the end of my cold room so I prepared 
one end panel to accept a pre-hung, insulated steel entrance door. I 
found it was cheaper to buy the door ready-made than it would have 
been to buy the parts to build one. I squared the door to the end 
panel and installed it like any other household door. I insulated 
around the door frame and under the threshold with expanding 
foam-in-a-can to make it air-tight.

 I decided to insulate my floor as well as walls and ceiling, but 
wanted to avoid a big step up into the cold room, since I wanted 
easy hand truck access. I used 3/4" bead board and 3/4"x2" sleepers 
to insulate and support the floor panel around the perimeter and 
where hand truck traffic would stress the floor and compress the 
insulation.

Stay tuned for part 4:


Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:32:52 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Cold rooms - part 4

Greetings folks,

 In the previous installment I described panel construction for the 
cold room. Now it's assembly time!

 I prepared my basement floor by painting it with porch & floor 
enamel. When it was fully cured, I put down a heavy poly vapor 
barrier and laid out the sleepers and floor insulation. I laid the floor 
panels on the insulation and sleepers and caulked the joint between 
the two floor panels with mildew-resistant silicone caulk.

 I set the rear end panel in place and screwed the side wall panels to 
it. I placed the roof panel on top and then attached the outer end 
panel with the door. All panels are assembled together with caulk to 
make air-tight joints.  With all of the panels assembled, I caulked 
every joint in the interior of the cold room with mildew-resistant 
silicone caulk. 

 I had framed one wall panel to leave an 18" x 18" square opening 
near the top to allow easy installation and service access for 
whatever refrigeration unit I decided to use. Now it was time to 
install the refrigeration system.

 I have several different refrigeration units in my collection of junk. I 
thought I'd first try a dehumidifier that happened to have about the 
right capacity. 

 I built an 18" square 2x4 frame to fit the wall opening. I removed 
the case from the dehumidifier and carefully rotated the evaporator 
coil 270 degrees from its original position until it was 
perpendicular to the condenser coil. The refrigerant lines were long 
enough to allow about 6" between the two coils. 

 I slipped the 2x4 frame between the two coils so the dehumidifier 
was on one side and the evaporator on the other. At this point only 
the refrigerant lines passed through the frame. I cut insulation to fill 
the frame, added the vapor barrier and wall covering to both sides of 
the frame.

 I attached brackets to the outside of the frame to support the 
dehumidifier and tightened everything into place. I fabbed some 
brackets to hold the evaporator coil parallel to and about 1" away 
from the inside wall of the frame. 

 It is necessary to draw air across the evaporator in order to properly 
cool the room so I built a box around the coil, with an opening for a 
large muffin fan on the side that would face the interior of the room. 
The back of the box is left open so air can be drawn from behind the 
coil, through it and out the fan opening into the cold room. The 
bottom of the box is open to accept a drip tray.

 I installed the fan and ran its wiring through the panel to the 
ouside. I fabbed a drip tray out of an old aluminum ice cube tray and 
installed it, with a drain line to the ouside of the room.  With the 
fridge unit assembled, I installed it through the opening in the wall 
and sealed the joints with caulk.

Stay tuned for part 5:


Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:03:49 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Cold rooms - part 5

Greetings folks,

 I ended the last installment by installing the refrigeration unit. This 
time I'll cover refrigeration accessories and operation.

 After I installed the refrigeration unit, I wired up an interior light, 
installed a CO2 manifold and fittings for Corny kegs, put taps 
through the wall and installed shelving for bottles, etc.

 I also installed a small control panel, consisting of a Ranco digital 
temperature controller, 24 hour timer and a 2-pole relay. The 
refrigeration unit and evaporator fan are wired so they run together. 
When the room reaches setpoint, both the fan and compressor shut 
off. 

 The 24 hour timer and relay are used to provide a defrost cycle. At 
noon and midnight, the timer energizes the relay, which prevents 
the compressor from running and starts the evaporator fan. I use a 1 
hour duration for each defrost cycle.

 I've run the room for about 6 weeks now and am very happy with my 
results. This is, however, a work in progress and I intend to make 
changes as I go. 

 First is my refrigeration unit. I knew when I decided to use it that it 
was on the borderline of being too small. It is good to undersize a 
bit in order to get good dehumidification performance but this little 
guy has to run abot 75% of the time. The room is as dry as a bone 
inside and I've seen it remove a quart of condensate each day when 
I've put something damp in the room or I'm in and out of it a lot. I 
have a larger dehumidifier I plan to install. I should easily  be able to 
get the duty cycle down to 50% with it and still expect to have good 
moisture control.

  I would like to experiment with an off time-delay for the evaporator 
fan. The refrigerant continues to flow through a refrigeration system 
for a period of time after the compressor shuts off. The evaporator 
fan could continue to run during this period, which would provide a 
little extra cooling and reduce coil icing. If the evaporator fan runs 
continuously, however, the air flow tends to re-evaporate any 
condensate still in the drip tray and since the fan itself rejects its 
heat into the refrigerated space it too becomes part of the heat load. 
In my case, that's 40 watts.

 If I were in and out of the room a lot, or the room was located in a 
very warm ambient I'd want the fan running continuously and use a 
bigger refrigeration unit to maintain even temperature throughout 
the room.

 I haven't yet set up the ferm chamber and want to install the larger 
dehumidifier before I do so.  Lastly, I want to add a 2" layer of 
insulation to the inside of the door. The steel door seals tightly but 
only has an R-value of 4.

 I really hadn't planned to document my cold room project and I 
wish I'd taken photos as I built it to better illustrate the construction 
details. I do hope this series of posts is helpful to those of you 
interested in building a cold room.

 I'll post updates from time to time as I use the cold room and make 
changes to it. I welcome questions and comments from those who 
have built cold rooms or are interested in doing so.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:39:01 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: Spence's GI tract

pence asks:

>I am wondering if others in our fraternity have experienced
>"gastrointestinal distress" from drinking
>their homemade beers and wines

And his signature says:

"If you're not bleedin'... you're not having fun!"

So Spence, isn't the "distress" what makes drinking homebrew fun?  I
would have thought so.

Jonathan

If your're not squirtin'...Your're not drinking homebrew!



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 15:24:45 -0700
From: "beerbarron " <beerbarron at my-deja.com>
Subject: Sour Tatse?

Can bad or old ingredients
cause you beer to have 
a sour tadte?

I got my ingredients from
the same place as always 
(only place in Charleston)
and followed the same procedure
But this batch tastes nasty sour.

I noticed the brew store doesn't
seem to be doing well (nothing ever
seems to move off the shelves
and dust covers everything)
and i just wonder if they are
keeping their stuff too long.

Does anyone know anyplace
to buy in or near Charleston, SC?
This place in Mt. Pleasant has me 
disillusioned with the whole hobby.


- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Before you buy.


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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:28:00 -0400
From: "Spence" <drwlg at coollink.net>
Subject: Battle of the Belly Button Buldge

I want to thank the group for providing me some additional insight on this
strange phenomena I have encountered at times with belly problems after
consuming more than a couple bottles of homebrew or a few glasses on
homemade wine.  HBD is fun to read and a great help to the hobbyist.

The general conclusions I have received in about 7 private e-mails and
several on the recent HBD are basically as follows:

Possible lactose intolerance  (I am somewhat intolerant... of lactose, too!)

Homebrew yeast overpowering local flora in my gut.

Some of the sugars in the wort, or must, might be too complex for the yeast
to digest... and me, too.

Be more careful in decanting the beer or wine so as not to stir up the yeast
sludge in the bottom of the bottle in an effort to NOT consume it!  (This is
something I may have screwed up and paid the price for.)

I am not alone, by any means, in this hiccup of our hobby... of course, this
is of little consolation when seated on my Throne of Wort, Wisdom &
Enlightenment... but what the heck, it gives me time to peruse my
homebrewing books and practice my language skills without offending my wife
and daughter (in more ways than one!).

One person suggested the employment of "Beano"... wonder if a prophylactic
dose of Pepto or some other concoction prior to "experimentation" would be
an idea?  Naw, I never liked prophylactic ANYTHING!

Introduce other "good bugs" into my gut... acidophilus, etc...  (Now we
might be getting somewhere other than my Throne of Wort, Wisdom &
Enlightenment!)  Need more research and discussion here...

Potential yeast allergy... (Distress doesn't seem to happen all the time.  I
have a feeling I may have been sloppy in decanting properly, or drinking
from the bottle stirring it up too much.)

You folks are great fun and I appreciate how everyone seriously took up the
charge!  Once again, I have learned a lot!  Bottoms up... NOT down!  grin

Spence

If you're not bleedin'... you're not having fun!



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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:39:15 -0600
From: Dave Thayer <dthayer at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: denver area homebrew shops

On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 03:58:56PM -0400, JPullum127 at aol.com wrote:
[...]
> wedding present. can anyone reccomend a good  homebrew shop in the southern 
> denver area, not just a wall of ingredients but  with people experieced and 
> helpfull for newbies . they actually live close to morrison if that helps 
> any. thanks to all

That's easy:

Beer at Home, 3157 S. Broadway. On the web at www.beerathome.com

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer, objects may appear larger, etc.

your pal dave

- -- 
Dave Thayer
Denver, Colorado USA
dthayer+sig at netcom.com 


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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 03:50:52 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: why clearer beer w/ sparging?

Alan Meeker (who is apparently able to post again - yeah) writes ...

>Steve, what is the difference in _chill-haze_ between the two methods?
No appreciable chill haze that I detected - seemed to be permanent.

>Other possibilities include the fact that during a prolonged sparge
residual
>amylase and protease activities may have important effects, cleaving up
>starches and proteins respectively.

Starch repeatedly in the no-sparge after 60+ minute mashes seems
extremely unlikely to me.  Also the same protein degradation that would
detract from haze may also detract from foam.   I'm leaning toward added
phenolics reducing haze explanation myself.  There is also the probability
that you get different protein fractions early vs late - but I haven't seen
much evidence in favor of this.

 -S






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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:45:51 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Fermenter additions vs. Infection

Sean Clark asks ...

>When you dry hop, or add anything to the beer after the boil
>(i.e. fruit to secondary), it strikes me that this is a primo way
>to get an infected beer.  

Yes, you're absolutely right.  Adding dry hops or fruit to a beer
is certain to infect the beer, but most HB is infected
even without this assistance.

In practice this isn't usually a major flavor problem.  There are
several reasons for this but it all comes down to chemical
warfare that the yeast regularly win.

Dry hops is usually added late to prevent CO2 from
scrubbing the hop aromas.  At this stage the yeast have
removed the simplest sugars and fermenting maltose and
beyond is a trick that many infections haven't mastered. 
The pH has been driven to low values (4.x) which prevents
the vast majority of infections from growing, and the hops
are inhibitory to some of these.  The yeast have removed
all of the available oxygen and most lipids which effectively
prevents both aerobic and anaerobic infections from growing.
Also they've created some toxic ethanol to the mix.

In the case of fruit beers you are adding simple sugars and some
sterols  but you are also lowering the pH.

Wine makers face a far less controlled situation than brewers yet
off-flavoring infections aren't typical.  The same pH/low sterol/
anaerobic conditions obtain in fermenting wine after the yeast
first take hold.  Acetic bacteria are aerobes and will never thrive
if the yeast take off first - but acetic acid will stunt yeast growth.

Of the infections which are effective anaerobes and can handle
such low pH - wild yeasts are by far the biggest potential problem.
Since you have hopefully pitched a lot of healthy yeast at the
beginning and aerated them well - the wild yeast which are
generally slower growers  will not enjoy the same good growth
conditions.  Similarly many lactic bacteria are not affected by
hops and require very little oxygen and if given an early foothold
can thrive in a fermentor.

You should probable eschew open fermentors when adding
such contaminated ingredients to a fermentor.  Also avoid
reusing the resulting yeast without plating them out.

Beer surface infection may be due to non-Saccharomyces
yeasts like pichia and candida  - most don't care for the pH or
ethanol  but there are a few that can grow slowly on fully
fermented beer.

 -S




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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:32:43 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Removing labels

I soak labels with hot detergent then scrape and wash the remaining adhesive
off with "De-Solv-it" a citrus oil based product made Downunder.  Magic stuff.

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:26:22 EDT
From: WayneM38 at aol.com
Subject: Oxygen Regulators

To the HBD collective:

I have been using the 'rock and roll' method of aerating wort since I began 
brewing.  My gadget list has now shortened since I purchased a magnetic 
stirrer on E-bay. What a surprising difference in yeast starter growth! A 
stirrer and a 2000 ml flask can produce a very nice yeast slurry in a hurry  
;-)   (sorry)


An O2 setup just moved to the top of my gadget list.

While some report using the Liquid Bread version of small tank and stone, I 
would like to get a little larger O2 set up. I have never regretted getting a 
20 lb. CO2 tank, the size recommended by many here on the HBD.

The question:

What types of O2 regulator and tank combinations are brewers using and is a 
larger tank setup overkill?

Thanks in advance.

Wayne 
<A HREF="http://member.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm">Big Fun Brewing 
RIMS Homepage</A> 
http://member.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm


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