---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  beer foam (ensmingr)
  Hop God Challenge Update (johnsosm)
  re: acetone ("Stephen Alexander")
  Fermenter additions vs. Infection (Sean Clark)
  sake digest (Jim Liddil)
  More than one yeast, SWMBO,Upset tummies,passport ("Graham Sanders")
  diabetic beer ("John Pietrzak")
  Question Re: Coconut ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Yeast vs my lower GI ("Fred L. Johnson")
  further no-sparge data ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: The Brewers' Handbook (Jeff Renner)
  good science ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Cold rooms - part 1 (fridgeguy)
  Al ("Paul Niebergall")
  asst brewer problems (thermostats) (Lou.Heavner)
  Just some Category 5 nonsense... ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  The Hop God ("Jim Arbuckle")
  closing the Floodgates of War ("John Watts")
  Correction on AHA Registered Clubs ("Gary Glass")
  Gonzo Hopping / R-values (David Harsh)
  COld rooms - part2 (fridgeguy)
  denver area homebrew shops (JPullum127)
  can beer be overhopped? ("Alan Meeker")
  Hop Gods ("Alan Meeker")
  More Cats In The Brew!! ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  removing labels ("Sean Richens")
  Mead HSA and Info Request ("Eric Ahrendt")
  Pricing on Keg kettles ("Don and Sarah Cole")
  Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold. ("Perry Q. Mertz")


* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:02:16 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: beer foam

In case anyone is interested, this is from New Scientist
April 1, 2000:

By Debora MacKenzie

Eat crisps, wear lipstick . . . you won't spoil the look of
this beer

BEER looks stale unless it has a decent head on it. But the
foam is fragile stuff: grease from a packet of crisps, or
even lipstick, can destroy it. The head can even be affected
by the weather conditions when the barley used to make the
beer was growing. So brewers in Germany decided to work out
how to make a more dependable head--so long as drinkers are
willing to stomach genetically modified beer.

"The basis of foaming in beer is the LTP1 gene," says Ulf
Stahl of the Technical University of Berlin. The protein
made by the gene prefers to dissolve in fat, and hates
water. When the sprouted barley is ground up to make beer,
the protein is forced into water. It escapes by forming thin
films around bubbles of carbon dioxide rising through the
brew. The coated bubbles accumulate at the top of the glass
to form the foamy head. The more protein, the more stable
the head.

"Grease is the enemy of foam," says John Hammond of Brewing
Research International in Surrey, because the proteins in
the foam dissolve in any passing fleck of fat rather than
staying stretched around the bubbles. This is why beer
glasses must be squeaky clean, he says.

A worse problem for brewers, says Stahl, is that quantities
of LTP1 vary widely. "More is made in a dry summer than a
wet one," he says, so any given batch of beer may or may not
make a good head. So Stahl has put the LTP1 gene into
brewer's yeast. The yeast secretes so much head-producing
protein, he says, that "the beer will make the same amount
of foam no matter what the quality of the barley". He plans
to brew his first GM beer in the autumn, but says it's not
likely to go into production for a few years, given the
opposition to GM food in Germany. "But unofficially, the
brewers are interested," he says.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:36:04 -0500
From: johnsosm <stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Hop God Challenge Update

After my post yesterday, I was informed by Chuck Bernard, one of our club 
members, that Tom "The Hop God" Vista, who has issued the Hop God Challenge as 
part of our 5th Annual Music City Brew-Off Sept. 23, will NOT enter any of his 
beers as part of the challenge. Tom himself brought this up in some recent 
discussions that I was not privy to. He realized and discussed with Chuck that 
if he entered AND judged the Challenge beers, this might appear to be 
"unsavory", to say the least. So, he will be the judge of these beers, and 
will pronounce the winner as part of our awards ceremony.  Again, we will post 
more information about our event in the near future, so toss in another 
handful of hops and take on the Hop God Challenge!

Steve Johnson
President, Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:23:59 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: acetone

Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> writes ..
>> Acetone is pretty solid evidence of a clostridium infection.
>
>the taste and smell of acetone is no evidence of anything at all except
>it's own existance....

Right - and a field of wheat isn't evidence of a farmer either.  How
did acetone appear without an acetone producing culture ?  Think
you can leak 50 ppm thru spontaneously from acetoacetyl-CoA
with yeast ? Makes no sense w/o an infection.

>Does he perchance thinks it's Clostridia perifringens? in a beer culture?!?

Or C.butyricom, C.acetobutylicum, C.pasteurianum maybe others,
but you have an infected beer.  Co-fermentation of molasses or corn
syrup with S.cerevisiae yeast and C.acetobutylicum was a commercial
method of producing acetone.  Acetone is not an unusual infection
problem when I make malt vinegar, which is no more anaerobic and
contains a related nutrient profile and a less friendly pH.

>[...] and I suspect [...]
>a metabolary intermediate that was able to be further metabolised [...]
>with the same culture [...]

Wild conjecture at it's best.  Do you get more isopropanol ?  That
must taste great.

>The bad news is that Steve says we are all harbouring anaerobic cultures

Let's not extrapolate *your* infection problem to everyone else.  Acetone
above threshold in your beer spells infection.  Most of us have never
seen this problem.  A partly closed fermenter or  keg is btw virtually
anaerobic once the yeast kick in.

- --

Pivo's sniffer may not be working accurately. Possibly he has
confused the fruity solventy ester ETHYL-ACETATE for ACETONE.
Both are used in formulations of nail polish remover, but no
one would confuse the two.  Maybe a beginners course in
ID'ing aromas is in order for the Doc !

 -S




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:02:22 -0700
From: Sean Clark <spc at lucasarts.com>
Subject: Fermenter additions vs. Infection

Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster here...

Something I've been curious about for a while now:  When you dry hop, or add
anything to the beer after the boil (i.e. fruit to secondary), it strikes me
that this is a primo way to get an infected beer.  From the reading I've
done, and from the posts I've seen, I know this is a relatively standard
procedure (and I've oft been tempted to do it, too), but I've never seen the
issue of infection addressed.  Anyone wanna take a crack at it?

Also, it seems that if you were to add anything bulkier than hop pellets,
especially something you want to remove again, you'd have to use something
like a corny keg or an open fermenter.  Any other ideas?

Thanks!


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:45:08 -0400
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: sake digest

Thanks to the goodness of the hbd janitors I have the sake digest setup on 
the hbd.org server.  You can s*bscribe by sending a message to 
sake-request@hbd.org with "s*bscribe" in the body.  cahnge the "* " to a 
"u".  this is a list for the discussion of all things sake.  but primarily 
the focus will be on making it at home as well as tasting 
notes/availability etc.  right now it is set as a digest to go out once a 
day.listserv.  I'm trying to get up to speed on majordomo as fast as I can 
but bear with me if things wack out.

Jim Liddil
Sake digest moderator


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:26:26 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: More than one yeast, SWMBO,Upset tummies,passport

G'day All

From: johnsosm <stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Blending Yeasts

Which brings
us to the questions: do any brewers use several different varieties of yeast
when brewing these, or other styles of beers, and if so, what impact would
this have on the finished product


Well it was asked whether anyone uses more than one type of yeast in a brew.
I can sort of answer yes and no.  This has to do with my Kolsch.  Its a
stock standard, but how I manage the yeast is a bit different.  I start my
Kolsch off with a German Ale yeast (the type lost long ago in my youth, but
a reliable bastard all the same).  Anyway, I let it go at 15c for four days,
then add 4 litres of Munich lager yeast at high Krausen (to make up the 38
litres) and drop the temp to 8C and treat it like a lager from there on. I
dont know where I picked up this technique from, but I do enjoy the results.
A sort of well attentuated lager with a hint of german ale characteristics.

Thinking about what would happen with a blended yeast if pitched at the same
time, I would imagine both both contribute their unique character in the
first brew, as both would grow to good numbers.  If all things being equal,
you would expect the ratio of yeast numbers to remain the same in following
brews.  However a bloke called Darwin has a nice theory that puts pay to
that. As no two varieties are exactly the same (obvious like a wort on a ,
ah , well you know what), One strain will eventually dominate.  How soon one
get above the other will depend on in part how dis-similar the strains are.
However I would not expect one strain to totally expung the other.

From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
What is a SWMBO, anyway?????

Rod, there are many dangerous creatures here in North Queensland.  From
genital sucking frogs, trained taipans, deadly tourist seeking stingers and
'saltie' with certain people names engrained into their skin, not to mention
the Yates-Pivo dive boats tours, but perhaps the worst of all that is feared
is SWMBO.

This creature is feared by all mankind.  It has been known to make the "Mike
Tysons" of the world tremble in fear or just straight out freeze.  In fact
old Iron Mike was heard to say 'No way, I'm not that mad."  What worse these
creatures are found even in the bliss of the surburbs.  Its there
unpredictability thats makes them soooo dangerous. Quite and even cute one
minute, they will bite your head off given half a chance.  Even their tongue
is venomous. The only sight worst, is when these animals form packs.
Guaranteed to make the strongest man cry in fear.

From: GraemeParker <GParker at stvincents.com.au>
It looks as if the Qld sun has started to fry Graham
Saunders' brain.

Leave William alone you brutes !!!

Oh I'll leave my MATE alone, ------, alone with Dr Pivo and Phil on their
dive tour. Then he will be truely alone after a couple of hours.

From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
I'm in SA but rather be in Qld (put a dent in the winemaking though).  You
put me in both.  You forgot FNQ.

Lyndon, your passports in the mail. Your apples with me mate!

From: "Spence" <drwlg at coollink.net>
I really enjoy the bantering back and forth across the pond, but I have a
delicate, yet no less serious inquiry to make.  I am wondering if others in
our fraternity have experienced "gastrointestinal distress" from drinking
their homemade beers and wines?

It was asked if anyone has even had bad intestinal experiences with beer.
Well yes (oh my rectum has just recalled the experience). Living up here I
have a rather large mango tree out the back. Every year the stuff rots on
the ground.  Well I make fruit lambics, but I use tropical fruits, cherries
being rarer than an Aussie virgin bride. What about using these in a mango
lambic? Now an unusual thing about mangoes is that if you have enough of
them they go through you like a nympth through a football team.

So i decided to make a mango lambic.  Dumped loads of mangoes into it, and
after a year, no mistaking its a mango lambic. BUT you could set your watch
by it.  Start drinking more than a glass of this delightful brew, well 4
hours later,---- no pain, no strain, just sit and let it drain. I still have
a few bottles, just for those visitors who don't take the hint about
leaving.

From: "Alex Weeks" <fargone at napanet.net>
On a completely different note: I may be heading Australia around January or
February.

Alex, dont forget my carton of beer so I can arrange your North Queensland
passport.  Remember we are different from that lot down south( now thats
leaving me open).

Shout

Graham Sanders



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 02:54:19 +1000
From: "John Pietrzak" <lynel at globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: diabetic beer

Hi
How dou you make diabetic beer?
No, light alcohol is not good enough.
An enzyme is introduced into the wort at the same time as the yeast.  It
purpose is to ferment the residual sugars that yeast does not ferment out.

What is this enzyme & how does it work?
 Any information please

ta
jr



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 06:36:15 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Question Re: Coconut


I have used coconut extract several times, often with pleasing 
results (to some)....but would like to experiment with using 
fresh coconut.  Has anyone done this?  Do I have to worry 
about oils?  Would it be best to boil/ microwave separately, 
then add when bottling?  Or is this ripe with problems...and I 
should just stick to the extract?

By the way, a coconut stout went over real well (used 1/2 oz 
of coconut extract in the bottling bucket..)

 ..Darrell
- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:59:34 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Yeast vs my lower GI

Spence complains of GI problems from homebrew and brings up the question of
homebrew yeast being the cause.  I've heard many times that the yeast in a
homebrew can cause flatulance, but I've never thought this made much sense.
I'm not sure the yeast even survive the journey. Rather, it seems more
reasonable (to me, anyway) that the gas is the result of bacterial
fermentation (or whatever it is that bacteria do).

Beer has a significant amount of higher saccharides in it that brewer's
yeast cannot ferment.  This is precisely the reason beer has a final gravity
that isn't that of water (1.000) or below.  However, these sugars ARE
fermentable by many bacteria, including those in your bowels.  I believe
Spence is experiencing a nice secondary fermentation by his intestinal
flora.  As for his reference to the "floodgates" (being opened), this all
sounds similar to the lactose intolerance that many have as the result of
the genetic deficiency of the enzyme that cleaves lactose into
monosaccharides.  Lactose intolerance and general beer intolerance may both
be related to bacterial activity on these higher sugars.

Of course, if one introduces a significant amount of bacteria into your brew
at bottling time (or before), you could get this secondary fermentation
going on in the bottle, with gushers being the result.
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:15:15 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: further no-sparge data

Nat asks a few more questions about my short run batch sparges. By short run
batch sparges I mean a total of 7 gallons of water (both mash and sparge)
for about 14-15 lbs of grain.  I mash with 5 gallosn yielding 1.33 qts/lb
mah ratio and use the remaining 2 gallons as batch sparge letting it sit for
about 15-25 minutes on the grains.

For grain I use mostly well-modified grains.  base grains tend to be Muntons
2-row, Muntons maris otter, weyermanns munich, or in the case of hefeweizens
or belgians weyermans pils or DWC pils.

I use infusion mashing using mash water at about 172-176degF added to room
temp grain and Gott cooler mash tun to yield a mash temp between 152F and
156F.  mash time is 90 minutes for normal batches and 2 hrs. for high OG
batches.  I do not do a iodine test. Once I drain first runnings after
recirculation, I add the 2 gallons of 172-174degF sparge water and let sit
for 15-25 minutes before recirculating and draining.

As for the haze, it is not a big problem.  I can definitely see through the
beers although judges have occasionally remarked about some haze.  this
tends to be atleast with my IPAs that are a mixture primarily of munich and
2-row pale that are keg dry hopped.  The head - I would like to improve if
possible but if not, no bigggy. many other things to work on in terms of
perfecting recipes.

Keep brewing big and hoppy beers.  i enjoyed hearing of "424" and may pursue
a similar someday.  Incidently, I did just brew Sister star of the Sun IPA
recently but with much more hops added at chill-time for big aroma.  I may
go with an all-columbus IPA next.

Pete Czerpak
albany, NY

 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:24:31 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: The Brewers' Handbook

"KVP Publishers" <kvppublishers at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>KVP Publishers would like to announce the new release of The Brewers'
>Handbook.

It's always good to have more literature in the field.  When I began
brewing 25+ years ago there was very little information and what there was
was mostly pretty crummy stuff.  However, it would be a courtesy to HBDers
if you would make this announcement a personal thing with your actual name
and something about you and/or the author (it appears from the web site
that they may be one and the same, Ted Goldammer).  That way it would
appear to be less of a impersonal crass commercial announcement and more of
communication between brewers.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:25:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: good science

howdy folks,

for those not so inclined, or who have had their minds weakened by too
many homebrews, i would just like to remind people about the vast
canyon that is the difference between CORRELATION and CAUSE in the
scientific world of which i am an inhabitant.

while the abundant metal aluminum may be found in the brains of
Alzheimers patients, this doesn't not mean it CAUSED the illness.
rather, there is a CORRELATION between the two phenomena.

in the scientific world, we do not seek to PROVE. rather, a
hypothesis is proposed and experimental evidence is gathered. whether
the evidence does or does not SUPPORT your favorite hypothesis is the
fun part which requires one to offer explanations for the
observations. frequently, this means modifying the hypothesis based on
the new information. this is obviously complicated by the fact that
scientists are not without egos and have an interest in promoting
their favorite hypothesis. this is bias.

perhaps the neurofibrilary tangles observed in Alzheimers patients
causes aluminum to be trapped in the brain. can you PROVE otherwise? 

now back to the beer!
 
 -patrick in Toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:47:05 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Cold rooms - part 1

Greetings folks,

 In HBD#3381, Jeremy Bergsman posted several questions regarding cold
room construction. As luck would have it, I recently built my own cold
room and will describe my design considerations and construction
techniques. I'll have to post in multiple sections over the next few
days.

 Building a cold room is a major undertaking for most people. A
project of this magnitude will require considerable planning,
patience, time and
money. The result will often become a permanent part of the home.
Long-term usage factors such as construction integrity, energy
consumption, humidity control and ease of use need to considered at
this stage, before materials are purchased and before starting
construction.

 The first and most important area of consideration is how the cold
room will be used and where it is to be located. These two factors
will
determine the size of the room, the amount and type of insulation that
will be required, and the size and type of refrigeration system that
will be needed to hold it at the desired temperature.

 In my case I wanted to replace the chest freezer I'd used for serving
with something that would hold all of my kegs, bottles and any brewing
supplies that need refrigerating. I also wanted to provide a
cooled/heated fermentation chamber I could use across a wide
temperature range. I expected to keep one chest freezer for cold-
temperature lagering since it is something I don't need to do on a
regular basis or on a large scale.

 I wanted to do away with multiple refrigeration systems where I could
and decided to use cold air from the main room to cool the ferm
chamber as needed. This would also allow for good moisture control
since I could rely upon the main cooling system, which will have a low
enough evaporator temperature to properly dehumidify the air.

 I could have designed the cold room with a partition between the ferm
chamber and main area but I wanted to have easy access to carboys
during
fermentation without having to open the main cold room door. I found a
dead side-by-side fridge which has a low lift-over height for the
half-barrel I usually ferment ales in, and has plenty of room above
for carboys or corny kegs on shelves. The fridge was free and already
had good insulation and tight door gasketing. I gutted the system and
plan to use the original evaporator fan along with a Ranco controller
to draw air from the cold room through a pair of insluted ducts
(supply and return). For fermenting ales in winter, the Ranco can be
switched to heating mode. I use a carafe heater from a dead
coffeemaker as a heat source and limit its output via a lamp dimmer.

 I serve and store my beers in my basement, which stays between 60 and
70 degF year-round. The relatively low ambient temperature and
reasonable humidity (I use central a/c in summer) mean a relatively
small temperature difference between the cold room temp (about 40
degF) and the basement ambient. This allowed me to get by with less
insulation and saves on operating costs.

Stay tuned for part two:

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:00:41 -0500
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject:  Al

OK, I will chime in here on this one.  Jeff wrote concerning a BT
article about aluminum and beer:

>All four had less than the detection
>limit of 0.4 mg/L.  He writes that a more sensitive test would have been
>prohibitively costly.  I apparently misremembered that they tested less
>than the original water - I was sure I had read that somewhere.  Maybe
>somewhere else.

Precisely the problem.  The detection limit of the test (0.4 mg/L) 
is well above the threshold for most peoples ability to taste it.  A 
rooky mistake for those who designed the experiment.  As with 
many other metals (especially iron), it takes very little aluminum to 
cause a metallic taste.  The lab  data does nothing to prove or 
disprove that using an aluminum boiling pot taints beer with 
a metallic taste.  Another case of misapplied science clouding 
the issue.  It may have costed more to have the lab perform the 
analysis with lower detection limits, but as it stands now the money 
spent on the original analysis was wasted.

That said, I am not going to touch the Alzhiemer's thing!

Paul Niebergall



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:36:00 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: asst brewer problems (thermostats)

     Seems the rugrats have been playing with my beer fridge in the garage.
     SHMBO has claimed a portion of it for them to use for cold drinks
     during our recent warm spel.  Anyway, I have one of those Johnson
     Controls temerature controllers that you plug the refrigerator into.
     The capillary tube between the controller and temp sensor has been
     bent, spindled, and mutulated but still appears to be physically
     intact.  The question I have is does anybody know how the controller
     will fail if the sensor or capillary tube were damaged? Will the
     fridge run forever or stop?  And in the event that the tube is broken
     now or in the future, is it repairable or replaceable?  Thanks, I
     should know since process automation is my day job, but there is no
     documentation with the device.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 11:51:37 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Just some Category 5 nonsense...

Gary Glass mentioned AHA-sponsored club insurance:

>The AHA is also looking into setting up an insurance program for clubs to
>cover liability at club events.  Stay tuned for more details.

Will this insurance cover drowning and other strange homebrew club
activities?  Only kidding Gary.  It's a great idea.

Alex Weeks, suffering from foot-in-mouth disease, wrote of aluminum:

>It looks like I proved myself wrong...
>I guess I'm gonna sit in the corner with an IPA

That's no punishment!  
In the medical world, I wouldn't discount all possibilities until the true
cause is found.  But with the amount of aluminum we're presented with every
day though cooking utensils, canned foods, canned beverages, medicines and
drinking water, we should all be walking around mad as a Buradoo Brewer (did
*I* say that?).  I guess the link has been weakened enough for me to try
aluminum vessels at my next upgrade - provided I can't get cut stainless
sankes on the cheap!

Oh, to be a Category 5 poster...  It's much more relaxing!

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:52:53 EST
From: "Jim Arbuckle" <arbucklejim at hotmail.com>
Subject: The Hop God

Steve Johnson's post in 3382 regarding the Music City Brew-Off is dead-on.  
I am [lamentably] an ex-Nashvillian, and I can tell you that there is darned 
  good beer being brewed in Nashville, and that the MCBO is one of the 
best-run competitions going.  If you get a chance, get down there and judge, 
enter a beer, or challenge the Hop God.  The judging is first rate, the 
festivities well planned, the honored guests first class, and the prizes 
generous and of good quality.

Regarding the Hop God: Tom Vista is not just a fine brewer, he is a force of 
nature.  I was once sitting at Bosco's the brewpub in Nashville where the 
brewers hang) trying to describe Tom to some people who had never met him 
when words failed me.  I asked for help from one of the club members, and 
she thought about it for just a moment and then said, "If I had to describe 
Tom, I'd say that he's Scooby-Doo on speed."  Just so.  Tom is of the size 
that prompts people to use the term 'bear of a man' with a coal-tar goatee, 
and a smile that spreads across his face like the Cheshire cat.  He has a 
voice that can be heard for blocks, and a laugh that defies description.  
Let it suffice to say that Tom has never sneaked up on anyone.  I have never 
met a man who enjoys living like Tom does, nor in the manner Tom does.  He 
does everything on a grand scale, whether it be bottling beer [in these 
gargantuan 64 ounce things that came to be known as "Vista bottles"], or 
toasting a well-met comrade at the bar.  Tom does nothing half way, and that 
especially applies to hops.

I have a good many stories about Tom, but Tennessee's Statute of Limitations 
still applies, and so I can relate just one: after one of the club's 
communal Saturday brew sessions in the Bosco's parking lot, the club had 
organized a pub crawl and several of us wound up at Blackstone's (Dave 
Miller's brewpub) late in the evening.  Chuck Skypeck, the brewmaster/owner 
at Bosco's, had a special firkin of Old Ale he had promised to tap late, and 
so we decided to head for Bosco's so as not to miss out.  Steve, Tom, my 
brother, one of his friends, and I piled into my van and headed out.  Tom 
rode shotgun.  The shortest route took us through the Vanderbilt campus, and 
we hadn't gone far when Steve spotted a co-ed carrying an armload of books.  
"What the hell is she doing carrying books at 11:30 at night?" Steve asked, 
"the library is closed."  Before you knew it, Tom had half his body out the 
van window yelling at the top of his prodigious lungs in an a cappella 
sing-song at all passersby, "THE LIBRARY'S CLOSED, GO TO BOSCO'S!...THE 
LIBRARY'S CLOSED, GO TO BOSCO'S!"  This, over and over the full twenty 
blocks to the brewpub.  Once the van was parked, Tom started to literally 
skip down the sidewalk toward the Bosco's entrance singing, "The library's 
closed, go to Bosco's!"   Steve and I thought it best to lag behind a good 
bit in case any of the local constabulary were around.

As Steve hints, Tom's first beers were not world class, but the quality 
quickly came around.  I remember the first time he brought one of his 
fantastic APAs to a meeting.  We took our first sips with trepidation, and 
then started to gulp greedily.  "This beer is awesome," one of the members 
said.  "Thank God," said another, "for awhile there I thought we were going 
to have to do an infection intervention on the guy."  Tom's beers had 
arrived, but little did we know the extent to which the brewer Tom Vista had 
been let loose on an unsuspecting world.

Soon the cry of "More Hops!" could be heard at all meetings.  It became a 
mantra, a greeting, a way of life.  Tom took to adding hops at each stage of 
the process; and so hop cones started showing up at the bottom of the Vista 
bottles.  Tom became the Hop God by popular assent.  At the communal brew 
days, "More Hops!" was the theme and the chant.  At one such occasion I 
heard a brewer who was staring into Tom's brewkettle mutter, "Jesus, it 
looks like hop stew."  And then Tom threw more hops in.

The point is, if you are going to burn offerings to the Hop God, sacrifice 
plenty, and make sure they are high alpha.

Jim Arbuckle
Indianpolis, about 340 miles North of the Hop God
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:58:16 -0500
From: "John Watts" <watts at radiks.net>
Subject: closing the Floodgates of War

After several episodes of the "opening of the floodgates" due to 
the anitbiotics prescribed for strep, I found that a bottle (or two) of
homebrew helped to close the doors.  My assumption was that the 
yeast, finding the native flora and fauna wiped out, took up residence
 and a new job.  I've never noticed any conflict when the "locals" 
were already present and healthly.

Rgds
John Watts
watts at radiks.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:39:47 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: Correction on AHA Registered Clubs

I need to make a correction to my statement on AHA Registered Homebrew Clubs
in yesterday's HBD. While in the past registered clubs received a
complimentary subscription to Zymurgy, this has NOT been the AHA's policy
for the past few years. The policy was changed after several individuals
fraudulently claimed to represent clubs in order to get free subscriptions
to the magazine. Clubs that had been receiving the complimentary
subscription
were grandfathered in and still receive the subscription. A board of
advisors committee has formed to review and suggest improvements for the
clubs program. Sorry for any confusion.

Cheers,
Gary Glass
AHA Administrator





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:03:35 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Gonzo Hopping / R-values 

Discussions of Old "424" makes me want to toot my own horn here:

My recent hoppy beer was a barleywine, of course.  One 10 gallon Gott
cooler full of Munich malt, One pound of Columbus hops, AA 14.7%.  O.G.
1.125, F.G. 1.030, now resting in secondary.  Estimated IBUs are 125,
but that's a wild guess at best.  I'll probably bottle it with a slug of
fresh yeast and ignore it for a few years.  For the record, mash was 90
minutes at 150 F, hopping schedule was 1 handful every few minutes
during a 90 minute boil.  

I made a similar beer 3 years ago, but only used 10 ounces of Columbus. 
It's pretty good now...  if underhopped ;)

- -------------
> R value is the inverse of the transmissivity value, U.
> U= BTU/hour/sqft/degree temperature difference.

Another usage of R-value is a heat transfer rating relative to that of
concrete, so R-8 represents "8 feet of concrete being equivalent to 1
foot of material in question" for insulating value.  

The best way to tell is that this particular nomenclature does not have
units.  

Further bulletins as events warrant.

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League 			Cincinnati OH
(home of Beer and Sweat, the world's only all keg homebrew competition, 
           see http://hbd.org/bloat for details)


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 13:13:02 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: COld rooms - part2

Greetings folks,

In the first installment, I wrote about issues to consider when
planning to build a cold room. In this installment(and probably the
third), I'd like to discuss materials and construction techniques.

Now that I knew how I wanted to use my cold room and where it would be
located, I had to decide upon the room layout and what elements I
needed. This includes taps, CO2 manifold, lighting, shelving, and
anything else the room needed as a feature. I wanted the room to be
economical to run so the size had to be kept small.

By this time I had decided to use only materials with easy-to-clean
surfaces inside the room. Moisture resistance is important. I chose to
use melamine-faced 3/16"hardboard for the interior wall and ceiling
surfaces. The melamine face is reasonably moisture resistant (it's
made
for use as bathtub surround). I reasoned that I could later paint the
interior if moisture eventually deteriorated the surface. The floor is
3/4" melamine double-faced particle board.

These materials come in 4'x8' panels so I initially planned to build a
4'x8' room (outside dimension). I wanted to be able to disassemble and
move the cold room if I later wanted to relocate it. I can just barely
get a 5'x8'x1' panel up my basement stairs and outside, so I had to
be sure not only that the room could be disassembled, but that no
panel
was too large to haul out of the basement.

I laid a sheet of plywood on the floor where I wanted the room to be
and tried to visualize the finished space. It didn't take long for me
to realize I needed a bigger room if I wanted shelves on both sides
and
still have room to walk down the center (I needed the door to be on a
narrow side). I finally arrived at an inside dimension of 5'x8', with
a
ceiling height of 7'6".

This decision made the room much more expensive to build since each
ceiling, roof, floor and end panel now took two sheets of each
material
(with a lot of waste) instead of one. Expanding the room to 8'x8'
wouldn't have cost much more but would have required a much larger
refrigeration unit and would cost a lot more to run. I also didn't
need
the extra space.

I next needed to know how much insulation to use. I did heat-load
calculations for various construction and insulation materials and
room
sizes. In HBD#3383, N.P.(Del) Lansing posted how to do a heat-load
calculation. For an on-line calculator, try:

http://www.glacierbay.com/Heatcalc.htm

and for R values for common materials try:

http://www.its-canada.com/reed/insul/in-insul.htm

After pricing insulation materials, I decided to use
expanded poystyrene (bead board). Its R value is less than extruded
polystyrene, but it's MUCH less expensive. I could use a 2" layer and
a
1-1/2" layer to fill a standard 2x4 stud cavity and end up with an
R-factor of 11. Since I had only 30 degrees maximum difference between
my basement ambient and my desired 40 DegF cold room temperature, and
there is no radiant heat load, this is enough.

Stay tuned for part 3:

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 15:58:56 EDT
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: denver area homebrew shops

some friends of mine in denver are getting married and as they have allways 
been fans of my homebrew i would like to get them a starter kit ect as a 
wedding present. can anyone reccomend a good  homebrew shop in the southern 
denver area, not just a wall of ingredients but  with people experieced and 
helpfull for newbies . they actually live close to morrison if that helps 
any. thanks to all


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:32:23 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at jhmi.edu>
Subject: can beer be overhopped?

Rod Prather wrote:

>Subject: But no one answered the question.
>In my post on Monday I aired a question.  Admittedly it was 
>well disguised under a blanket of attempted humor so I will 
>air it again.  

>Here's my question.  Can you over Dry Hop/Late hop a be

Oh, um sorry. The answer is "No."



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:27:47 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Hop Gods

Chuck Bernard wrote,

"Actually, the birth of "424" was issued as a challenge to the Hop God
by me.  Last December in the digest we had a short lived thread about
Sister Star IPA.  One poster (Jay Spies, HBD #3186) told the story of
not paying attention and accidently using 17 ounces in a 10 gallon
batch of 1.066 IPA.  Jay then related a tale of Alan Meeker and Mike
Maceyka using 22ounces in a 5 gallon batch.  Seeing these were in the
"junior-varsity" division in the eyes of the Hop God, I challenged him
to produce a super-triple digit, drinkable beer using more hops than
above.  The Hop God accepted the challenge and "424" was born."

Junior Varsity?????? As I recall Jay ran a ProMash on our recipe and came up
with >600 IBU for our HopDeath.

Beware of false prophets!

Alan Meeker
B'More




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:37:23 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: More Cats In The Brew!!

Jeff Renner writes :
>He forgets how he broke into HBD - by running >unopposed for the office of
>chief animal abuser.  That was when the cat that was >swung in the Yates
>household was not the one with nine tales.

But Jeff, have I not suffered enough for my sins?
Dave Humes warned me the cats would never forgive.

Now, out here in the vast surrounds of Burradoo, Jill decides we have to
have a cat. She's got three dogs and she wants a bloody cat?
And wouldn't you know it! The damn thing has just been diagnosed as having
behavioural problems!
Funny that, I seem to remember being diagnosed with the same thing some
years back.
Anyway, the blasted cat has learnt how to swing off door handles until the
door opens and out she goes. Jill flies into a panic because outside waiting
for her is Danny the Doberman, who I suspect will do more than just lick the
cat!!
Personally, I'd be happy to open the door for it. But I copped a flogging
for suggesting this.

Please wait, there is some beer content in here.

So now I slave away all day in the brewhouse, and when I get back to the
house every door is locked to keep the cat in and I can't get in. No matter
how hard I bash away, no bastard inside can hear me through these double
brick walls!! Jill is engrossed in her TV show.
I fume, the bloody cat just looks at me through the window with a malicious
look on it's face.

Looks like it's another freezing night on the verandah with nothing to
console me but my homebrew.
And here comes Marilyn out of the bog again!!
She seems to appear always around my tenth homebrew.
Coming to get me!!
And the cat looks on.

Homebrewing was supposed to be fun.
This has turned into a bloody nightmare!!

Phil






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:06:21 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: removing labels

Don't scrape or use hazardous concentrations of alkali.  Use Tide or similar
brand-name laundry detergent in hot water.  Labels can be scrubbed of with a
Scotchbrite in about 1 hour.  I usually process two batches per bathtub full
of detergent.

Be sure to rinse the insides of the bottles well (duh).


Sean Richens
srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:48:56 -0400
From: "Eric Ahrendt" <sid at nwohio.com>
Subject: Mead HSA and Info Request

Hello all.  Regarding my question a few days ago about possible mead HSA -
several private e-mails laid my fears to rest. Apparently beer is the only
fermented beverage where HSA might be a significant concern. Thanks so much
to all.

To satisfy my endless quest for knowledge (and to save bandwidth), can
anyone recommend all inclusive books/resources for the following:

1. Mead making (science and technique, not just recipes)
2. Yeast culturing
3. Brewing water chemistry (recent HBD discussions sent me reeling!)

Thanks in advance.

P.S.   A helmet has one undeniable benefit - it will keep your dome dry in
the rain. In this swamp it's hardly gone two days in a row without raining
since mid-May. I bet I've gotten wet 15 or 20 times this year.

Regards,
Eric Ahrendt
Fremont, OH
1998 GL1500CT


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:46:13 -0500
From: "Don and Sarah Cole" <dcole at mc.net>
Subject: Pricing on Keg kettles

Hello homebrewers!  I am new to the list but have lurked and searched for
answers for quite some time.  Now I could use some advice.  I have a chance
to buy a converted 'keg' system from a homebrewer turned pro.  He told me he
had:

2 kettles (kegs) with ball valves
1 copper sparge manifold for one of the kettles
1 sparge arm
1 immersion wort chiller
1 cajun kooker
assorted parts

I believe he did most of the conversion work himself. This is part of a
dream I have to build a RIMS/HERMS system.  If I purchased this it would put
me much closer, much faster.

My question is what kind of price range should I expect to pay?

Don Cole
Somewhere in Northern Illinois



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:04:18 -0500
From: "Perry Q. Mertz" <pqmertz at netweavers.com>
Subject: Length of beer tap line and how to keep it cold.

Trying to add a couple taps to my bar.  Have a store room next door but
having real trouble finding the right place for the new frig I bought for
this new system.

I know there is a pressure drop over length of beer line, but what about
keeping it cold.  Are there hints for this?   Running the plastic line
inside of copper does that help?  How do bars do it with their long lines?
What is the max line for a typical 5 gal ball lock keg system?  Any
experience in this area would be most helpful.

Thanks and Cheers!



Return to table of contents

---