---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  oh my god..a beer related post. hong kong beers.. (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Drunks by another name ("Graham Sanders")
  Sooky Sooky La La (My Guess - Tellie Tubbies?) ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Spencer's visit (Dave Burley)
  Bloody whingers ("Dave Edwards")
  gott (rubbermaid) coolers ("Penn, John")
  brazing copper to stainless? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  re:no sparge haze ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  220V Freezer questions (john.mcgowan)
  Re: drunks (Some Guy)
  Tasty Lite (Jeff Renner)
  weiss yeast, british ale yeasts, other stuff, San Fran. info need ("Czerpak, Pete")
  white film floating in secondary ("Giznawz")
  Sooky sooky - WTF?!? ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  0.05 DUI (mohrstrom)
  Re: British ale yeasts (Matthew Arnold)
  Re: My first Batch. ("Leland Heaton")
  pellets for dry hopping (Frank Tutzauer)
  Problems Growing Hops (Hudson333)
  1275, 1318, drunks and Milds ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Malolactic Cultures For Cab Sauv Kit (Osew)
  Fruit Fly Adjuncts ("Bob Sutton")
  Answers from Steve Michalak of A-B ("John or Barb Sullivan")


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* 
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:05:47 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: oh my god..a beer related post. hong kong beers..


A beer related post....how strange for me.

those of you that know me can do something now apart from snigger
and laugh.

heading to Hong kong next week, got a couple of nights free 
for beer action.

Any suggestions past forsters and crappy lagers?

scotty



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:55:21 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Drunks by another name

G'Day All

I was curious whether the talk about drunks would get a response.  Yep it
did but not a lot.

Now to be a true fence sitter I like to throw my damper into the fire, and
agree with everyone.

Pats right (as always) -'hey I want to stay on the board'.  We should try to
raise the level of the hobby beyong the yobbo element, couldn't agree more.
Heck the wine industry has been successful at that for years.  Our hobby
needs to follow suit.

How do I contribute to it in the ocean of global affairs.  Well I always
refer to our hobby as CRAFTBREWING.  (check my E-mail address).  I always
have a quite shudder everytime I hear the term 'homebrew'.  Even people who
make wine dont say they home-wine.  The term homebrew will always have that
yobbo element attached to it.  But will I change the world.  Nope not me.

BUT (to keep the peace on the other side)

What is drunk, or to be a drunk to different cultures.  I had some visitors
to North Queensland from "the land of opportunity" long ago (before they
needed passports).  Well they called me and most of my fellow country-men
'real drunks' barely after a few days.

Why.  All because most people over here have a drink most days.  Never mind
how much we had (or didn't), the fact we drank each day put us firmly in the
alcoholic states with AA arround the corner for all of us.  When I pressed
them as to what is considered acceptable (ready for this Phil, Hopper and
the rest of the Aus crowd), it was religously put to me a drink once a week
was acceptable.

Now this is not uncommon with our friends (to some anyway) over there.  Most
will comment on how much we drink, generally more as you move North. Some
even gasp in amazment. To us "you drunken lout" can have as many meanings as
the famous mate, including a compliment. Drunk is not as bad in some areas
of the world as others, (but to get back to Pats good side - Yes I'm sucking
up), We should always promote the hobby in its best light.

>From a craftbrewer from North Queensland

Shout

Graham Sanders





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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:51:36 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Sooky Sooky La La (My Guess - Tellie Tubbies?)

There was a discussion going on in here some time back about beer
consumption, and just how much should one drink, or rather, not drink.

Pat's recent concern about homebrewers being considered as drunks has got me
thinking.
It seems to me that in this modern day, the general idea is that one should
not consume alcohol seven days a week. Such consumption apparently puts one
in the class of "alcoholic".

I have to confess - I must be an alcoholic!
Not since 1988 have I missed a night without having a beer. That night came
about because I took a punt driving home late at night from work and didn't
stop to pick up a beer and got home to find that we were out of beer.
That was a horrible night!! I barely slept!

But having said this, I must also confess to being addicted to tobacco. Not
a day goes by that I don't have a cigarette.
But I only have one! One "roll your own" after dinner which goes nicely with
the four beers I have before dinner, as an appetiser.

And that generally is the sum of it. I don't tell the Doc at my annual
medical  any of this and he always comments on what a healthy specimen I am,
being a middle aged old fart and all.

But if he knew the truth, in modern day terms I am classed as an alcoholic
and a cigarette smoker. What a laugh!
I think the modern medical profession at times is way off beam.

Of course, none of this is intended as a sling at Pat, I can see what his
concerns are.
But I would like to see an improved modern description of a drunk, so I
don't have to keep confessing (or forget to admit) to being one!

Phil



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:35:34 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Spencer's visit

Brewsters:

Spencer when you visit Koln's Koelsch houses  be sure to order Eisbein. It
won't be on the menu, but it will be available.

Enjoy it!

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:51:27 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: Bloody whingers

| Wow! So you like being referred to as a drunk because of your hobby?

Who cares what other people think! If they think that, then more power to
them, but I still don't give a rats arse. The beauty of an opinion is that
it means nothing, it is someone else's thought and is of little consequence
to your actions. If someone relates homebrewing with drunkenness, is that
really your problem? The answer is no, for all I am concerned they can
go.......

So it is regardless whether or not I like being referred to as a drunk just
because I brew, I do it for me, not them.

And yeah some guy, that was a whinge you made.

Cheers,
Dave.





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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:11:21 -0400
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: gott (rubbermaid) coolers

Many hardware stores and walmart carry Gott/Rubbermaid coolers this time of
year.  I got mine in the winter and found out that these stores only carry
those coolers in the summer.  Also, I"ve only seen the 5 gallon cooler at
the local Walmart.  Try walmart.com online and you can order the 5 gallon or
10 gallon cooler.  It was about $20 for the 5, $40 for the 10, and about $5
for shipping if you order (approximate prices $US).  
  Good luck.


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:18:23 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: brazing copper to stainless?

Any one know of an alloy that is compatible with both copper and
stainless steel? I have a piece that needs repair but all the
welders I talk to say it couldn't have been done (though they  are
looking right at the piece) I imagine it is just a bit outside
their experience; but since it *was done once it must be doable.
Any reccos?

N.P.Lansing


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:18:26 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:no sparge haze

Steve asked >>Tho' I don't see why you think LOWER soluble protein malts
would require
more tannin for precipitation.<<
  Lower S/T ration would indicate less proteolytic action and thus larger
MW
protein fractions remaining, the larger fractions being the problematic
ones
right?
>>Iodine tests were performed on all brews before mashout <<
  Ok, it wasn't mentioned before, just checking.
>>I don't see why the haze is any mystery - enough tannins to create haze
but not enough to precipitate it in the no-sparge.  <<
   Hmm, I was thinking the protein would be causing the haze, but an excess
of tannins yet not enough to flocculate; that would be a fine line to walk
and have
occur repeated, but could happen.
>>There are a number of references to using added phenolics to
precipitate haze.<<
   I know in red wine there is rarely a clearing problem because the
elevated
levels of tannins bring about rapid clearing, versus white wines with vary
low
tannin levels can be a real booger to clear sometimes.
>>Iodine is a good proxy indicator - but it is not really measuring what
we would like to know and control.<<
  I really should have emphasized the importance of the "squeeze some
grist"
part of the iodine test. What I like to know is that all the starch is
cleaved to
dextrine limits; iodine won't tell you the maltose/dextrine ratio though,
that has
to come from experience.

Pete mentions,
>>Nate Lansing continues to ponders Steves and my commenst on haze and
foam.<<
  Sorry, I thought you brought it up because you wanted feedback,
that maybe you were asking for some ideas what caused it and how to avoid
it.
We can leave it with the observation that no-sparge beers are hazy and have
reduced
foam.

N.P. Lansing


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:16:15 -0400
From: john.mcgowan at us.abb.com
Subject: 220V Freezer questions



OK. Here's one for you electrical engineers and fridge/freezer experts.

Negotiations with the spousal unit for a chest freezer have thus far failed.

Rather than continuing the process - or having one just "turn-up" in the
basement - I have another possible solution.

Already in our basement is a small freezer (that would hold a couple of cornies)
left over from when we lived in Europe. The problem - obviously - is that this
freezer operates on 220V, 50Hz while I am living 120V, 60Hz land.

So the questions are:

What would happen if I just plugged this baby into the wall?  Or would you
recommend a transformer (not a cheap endeavor)?  If it is okay to plug it in "as
is" would I still need an external regulator? Or would the reduced voltage just
not fully power the compressor so that freezing temperatures wouldn't be
reached?

John McGowan




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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:21:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: drunks

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Dave Edwards feels inclined to distribute the following logic...

> Who cares what other people think! If they think that, then more power
> to them, but I still don't give a rats arse. The beauty of an opinion is
> that it means nothing, it is someone else's thought and is of little
> consequence to your actions. If someone relates homebrewing with
> drunkenness, is that really your problem? The answer is no, for all I am
> concerned they can go.......

> So it is regardless whether or not I like being referred to as a drunk
> just because I brew, I do it for me, not them.

In a word, bullshit. "Opinion" of this nature plays into politics.
Politics plays into such things as blood tox levels and whether or not
home brewing is allowed in any repective area.

Remember prohibition? That was based on opinion, too. And there are those
working for its return - particularly here in the states. They're just
being more cautious this time. Sometimes simply making it inconvenient to
do so through such means as the ever-lowering blood levels associated with
DUI infractions. Another problem in the US is the association of home
brewing and moon shining. Opinions, again, but I recal a certain COPS
episode where a home brewer was raided as a moonshiner. No, I think
opinions can have a huge bearing on what you are ultimately allowed or not
allowed to do. 

> And yeah some guy, that was a whinge you made.

Is whinge supposed to be whine? Again, I think not, but you're entitled to
your opinion. Unlike the diametrically opposed opinions relative to the
dangers of associating drunk with home brewer (in most reasonable
communities), this particular opinion is universally ineffectual...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:45:30 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Tasty Lite

Brewers

For our son's recent wedding reception, I brewed a 1/4 bbl. of "lite" beer
(OG 1.037) for the masses.  I am happy to say that the CAP was more
popular, but the Lite beer fans found it to be entirely unobjectionable,
and homebrewers and others who like tastier beers found it to have enough
taste to be enjoyable.  I certainly enjoyed it.  It had about as much
flavor as a good American standard lager, even a little more bitter than I
than expected, perhaps because it was so dry, but it was a nice, clean
bitterness, not at all harsh, probably because of FWH.  I'd choose it over
any standard American beer, and certainly over a Lite anything.

(I've considered calling this Classic Lite American Pilsner (CLAP), but see
note at end.  One young guest came without his girlfriend, who really likes
lite beer, so I helped him CP fill 24 bottles to take back for her - he
said he was really excited about giving his girlfriend a case of the CLAP.
How's that, Dr. P?).

Anyway, I basically reduced the grain bill for a CAP to 75% and substituted
rice for half of the corn and also substituted carapils for 10% of the
6-row (added to saccharification rest), then mashed at 119F for 50 minutes,
then added the cereal mash and boosted to 148F for a 60 minute
saccharification rest, then a foam stand rest of 20 minutes at 162F, then
mashed out.  This resulted in a remarkable FG of 1.006, or 84% apparent
attenuation.  I FWHed with Liberty and used Saaz for bittering, and both
for t-15 minute addition.  Fermented with repitched 300 ml thick (like
putty) Ayinger yeast at 48F-52F, then lagered at 32F for five weeks.  If I
make this again, I think I'll use all rice and see what difference it makes.

Details for 7.75 gallons:

7.5 lbs 6-row malt
12 oz. DWC carapils
18 oz. corn meal
18 oz. med. grain rice, ground in Corona

1.2 oz. Liberty hops  at  2.5% for FWH (~7 IBU, but FWH hops contribute a
different quality bitterness)
1.0 oz. Saaz  at  2.9% (~7 IBU)
0.1 oz. Liberty 15 minutes
0.1 oz. Saaz 15 minutes (these two ~<1 IBU together)

Water - low alkaline, low sulfate as appropriate for pils.  I used my
temporary hard well water and treated 7 gallons with 8 tsp 10% phosphoric
acid to 5.8pH for the mash, and boiled and decanted an additional 8 gallons
for sparge.

Cereal mash with rice, corn and 12 oz. 6-row  at  153 for 20 minutes, then
boiled 50 minutes, meanwhile started main mash (remaining 6-row)  at  119 so
it was ready after 50 minute rest for the cereal mash and carapils addition
and boost to 148F for 60 minutes, then 162/20 minutes, then mashout  at  170F.
Collected 7 gallons (last runnings 1.3P! - overshot a little, good thing I
treated the water) and diluted for boil.

Note that the long 119F rest was slightly below a typical protein rest, and
it didn't have any apparent adverse affect on mouth feel or foam stand - in
fact, the foam stand was the best I've ever had, probably from the
carapils.  I got this mash schedule from the talking to Steve Michalak of
A/B at MCAB - I think it was the Bud schedule, but it may have been the Bud
Lite schedule.  I found that we weren't talking about the same thing at
least once.

Really, let's not let the CLAP acronym stick; there's nothing classic about
this style, and calling it classic anything detracts from CAP.  Let's call
it Lite American Pilsner if it needs a name.  I'm open to other suggestions.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:51:56 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: weiss yeast, british ale yeasts, other stuff, San Fran. info need

Thanks jethro for such a stimulating post - certainly a first for some humor
from you.  usually you only pass along useful brew info or Hop God info to
make the hopheads mouths water and heads spin. my spun around twice or three
times ;)

paul comments on an article of weiss beers.  i have to admit that I pitch a
hopefully good sized (twice scaled up) starter of yeast and haven't gotten
too much banana ester flavor either - only clove.  perhaps I pitch too high
and am not stressing the little yeasts enough.  my ferment temp is around
64-66F too.

i think mike also comments on weiss beer yeasts.  my experience is mostly
with 3068.  i think I may raise the ferment temp next time as this is
supposed to improve ester production to more banana flavors.  too low is
supposed to emphasize clove I think. 

Greg asks about a multi-beer british ale yeast.  My favorite british/london
yeast has been 1028 because it works so well in lots of brews - I have used
it in stouts, porters, IPAs, bitters, barley wines, browns.  i like the fact
that is it a dryer yeast.  what characteristic do you want emphasized in
your brews - malt or hops or neutral?  i think 1028 emphasizes the last two
more than malt.  wyeast 1098 seemed a bit too fruity for me as it threw tons
of esters even at low ferment temps.  I have used 1968 for a FESB clone and
it seemed to work okay.  I would like to try this one again for sure maybe
this fall.  as for the others, I am only beginning to explore.  I just asked
for comments on Thames valley vs. London ale 3 the other day.  no responses
yet but I did end up purchasing thames valley and its swelling up nicely.  I
plan on first scaleup tomorrow morning. I don't use Whitelabs since I can
not get it locally so have no comments on their strains.

1028 just happens to be a workhouse yeast for me that I like the
characteristics of - I love it for both american and british styles of IPA.
and it works well in barley wine too.  it seems to do good as well with
multiple repitchings.

Interesting array of postings lately....

Pete czerpak
albany, ny

PS. Could somebody provide me with a couple good beer stores in san
francisco area as I will be out there this wkend and next week and would
like to pick up some tasty brews to smuggle back to NY.  Incidently, I did
get wednesday reservations for the Anchor brewery tour.  Looking forward to
some fresh steam and liberty. yahoo! if the stores are close to the brewery
or tornado that is good since we will be at both locations.



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:23:57 -0700
From: "Giznawz" <giznawz at bitsmart.com>
Subject: white film floating in secondary

Hello.  I just looked around in the archives for messages regarding this
problem and found quite a few questions but no answers.  Apparently this is
not an uncommon problem, but should we be led to believe that no one knows
what it is or what its effects on our brew will be?

I have a very thin milky-white film on top of my Oatmeal Stout, which has
been in the secondary for less than a week.  I followed all of the
appropriate sanitizing procedures.  The brew is at about 4.33% alc by vol.
I do not see any floaters that weren't there to begin with (hops and such)
and don't see any sinkers after 3 days with the film, although as dark as
the brew is, it might be hard to tell.  When the carboy is tipped, the film
leaves a ring on the glass.  The brew tasted fantastic at racking time.  I
haven't tried a taste yet from the secondary as I'm not ready  to find out
that my beloved stout may be ruined.

Does it seem that this may be mold or some other kind of infection?  Has
anyone had similar experiences that turned out good?  or bad?

Thanks,
Giz

_______________________________________________
Why pay for something you could get for free?
NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:01:31 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Sooky sooky - WTF?!?

Pete Czerpak wrote Pat's part-time drunk reply:

>Pat is right in that most people take drunk to be a
>derogatory term and certainly not a compliment.  Personally I think that
its
>okay or not nearly as bad for a homebrewer to call himself a part-time
drunk
>(which is what the original poster may have heard his brother or whomever
>say).  Its a whole nother ball-game to be calling people part-time drunk
and
>homebrewer if its not you saying it about yourself. i assume since its his
>brother he meant it in the nicest joking way and didn't mean to start a war
>up.

I have to agree with Pat's comments too as Pete seems to hit it right on the
nose.  If I say this to a friend or family member, it is with an implied
wink and a grin.  The same as when I refer to myself as a "dirty Irish
bastard" to others of Irish decent.  I really don't care what strangers
think of me - they're strangers.  Call me apathetic, but let them think what
they want.  What does bother me however, is their ignorance and the
perpetuation of a false stereotype which might influence what my friends and
family think of me.

When I think of my homebrewing I liken it to cooking.  They're very similar
in many respects.  Does that make the amateur chef a glutton?  No.  So why
should I falsely be labeled a drunkard?  I have 1or 2 homebrews during the
week and between 2 and 4 on the weekends.  If I don't have a beer on a
particular day, I do not feel that I miss it.  No dependency.  This excludes
me from the technical requirements of being an alcoholic.  I drink
responsibly - with the rare exception of having a frosty one while target
shooting.  I'm sure this is a stigma which we'll all have to bear with, but
you can be sure that I am not going to do anything to perpetuate it.  

Now, after watching a Bud Light "Whazzup" commercial, what's your perception
of an individual who drinks Bud Light?  Mine is that of a lazy, immature
good-for-nothing.  Really great marketing guys!  But I must admit that the
"Wasabi" one makes me laugh ;-)

'Nuff said.

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:25:11 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com
Subject: 0.05 DUI

Ant Hayes awakens from a dream to land in a nightmare:

> Today I woke to the news that our DUI limit has been
> dropped from 0,08 to 0,05.

Are you trying to tell us that the 0.08 limit was INEFFECTUAL in prevented
drunk drivers from causing accidents???  How could this be?

If statistics tell  us that half of all fatal accidents are caused by drunk
drivers, then what is being done to keep the sober drivers -- causing the
OTHER half of the fatal accidents -- off the road?

Mark (with increasing blood pressure) in Kalamazoo



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:51:24 -0500
From: Matthew Arnold <revmra at iname.com>
Subject: Re: British ale yeasts

On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:22:44 -0400, you wrote:

>1098 British

This is/was my favorite IPA/Bitter yeast until recently. Something seems to
have "gone off" with this strain. It doesn't want to ferment out completely
anymore and it doesn't want to drop out anymore. More than a few people on this
list have commented about that too. Tis a pity. Does anyone know of a good
substitute? I really like the intense fruitiness this yeast imparts.

Hey Skotrat! I know you are/were a 1098 fan too. Has the strain gotten any
better recently?

Matt


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:15:55 PDT
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: My first Batch.

Recently, I wrote to HBD for my first time (~2 weeks ago).  I had tasted my 
"green" first batch, and it tasted like "$2.99 VONS brand charcoal-filtered 
vodka," but still smelled like good beer.  No affiliations with VONS, just 
drank their vodka and really found it to taste horrid :).  And for all you 
Aussies / non-Californians, VONS is our local "grocery store."

Well here I am, just past 3 weeks from my brew-day.  I was told to sit on my 
beer, and wait it will mature.  I found someone who actually brewed the same 
kit I did, and told me it took 8 weeks for his to mellow.  So what did I do?

Well I didn't have my ingredients yet, and I just couldn't handle the
pressure.  I snapped!  On Saturday, 3 days premature to 2 weeks for
bottling, I cracked open a bottle.  This is what I discovered:

I opened the bottle.  **HISSSSSSS**.  Well I know that it carbonated!

I poured the bottle into my glass.  There was a head!  Oh what a beautiful 
head it was.  I quickly smacked myself, remembered all my tasting lessons, 
and quickly smelled the beer as soon as it was done pouring.  Holy frog 
balls!  It still smelled like what we like to call in the beer world, BEER!

Once again I proceeded to slap the crap out of myself.  I had a job to do.  
I crossed my fingers and prayed to the hop god.  Took a sip.  And it tasted 
like.....once again..BEER!   I am very happy.  It is very good beer.  It 
tasted a lot like Sam Adams Boston Ale.  I tasted another bottle last night 
and it tasted different, still green I think.  Is that right, 2 bottles to 
taste differently?

I apologize for not telling HBD sooner, but I have been super busy at work. 
So I do apologize.  I thank you all for all of your help.  But now for my 
other story.  I do remember the thread going a while ago, and I do not want 
to restart it, because I thought the aussies were going to bomb the world.  
But I went to happy hour with my work buddies on Friday.  When a co-worker 
and I arrived one of our co-workers had already bought the first pitcher.  
So I sat down and had a glass.  It tasted ok, not like anything that I had 
tasted before.  But it was cheap beer, nothing more.  It was my first legal
happy hour, so I bought the next pitcher.  I didn't want to upset the group, 
so I asked what we were drinking.  I was told whatever I wanted etc.  Well I 
asked what we were drinking, and when he told me, my mouth hit the floor.  
He said Fosters.  I couldn't believe it.  So I had it.  I didn't think it 
was as bad as the light beers, because it had hoppiness to it.  But it was 
just cheap beer.  I didn't like it, but I didn't dislike it.  I am not 
planning on picking up a 12pack, or ever buying it again.  I just thought 
when I tasted it, it was going to taste like dog piss.  Not the human pee 
that it did.  Just thought that I would let the aussies' cut into me :).

Pat as to the whole being a part-time drunk.  I understand where you are 
coming from.  I used to walk to class, and just because of my general 
demeanor (ok so I am a little wacko), people used to think I was drunk 
everyday, all day, whenever they saw me.  I would walk across campus and at 
least 2 people would ask me if I was drunk.  When I really didn't drink much 
at all.  People just assumed I was.  I didn't like it.  But I agree that 
maybe he was just teasing his brother, even though his brother probably is 
not apart of the HBD, and the guy who wrote the post was a total moron.  But 
I still agree with you.


Thank you again.

Leland
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: pellets for dry hopping


Marc asks:

>I've heard that dry-hopping with pellets prevents infection (compared to
>using whole hops or plugs) because there is less surface area for
>bacteria to attach themselves to and grow on. Is this true?

Actually, it's the other way around:  pellets have *more* surface area than
whole hops or plugs.  I know that many swear by whole hops for dry hopping, but
I once asked the head brewer of our local micro whether he would use pellets or
whole hops for dry hopping, and he said that in dry hopping surface area is the
name of the game.  The greater the surface area the easier for aromas, etc., to
infuse into the beer, so he used pellets.  Makes sense to me.  I find pellets to
be easier in all stages of brewing so use them almost exclusively, dry hopping
included.

Of course, this doesn't answer your question about infection  :(

frank



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:11:32 EDT
From: Hudson333 at aol.com
Subject: Problems Growing Hops

Help!  I have successfully started growing my own hops for the first year and 
all five plants are doing tremendously well.  I have a good amount of cones 
on each plant already.  I do not think I will be harvesting 2lbs from each 
plant but I expect to harvest enough for at least one batch when the time 
comes.  

Here is my problem.  I have developed a significant amount of mite webbing on 
one of my plants, the Cascade to be exact.  I diagnosed this from a web site 
that had pictures of hop diseases etc...  First of all, what do I use to 
control or get rid of this problem?  I am sure I may need to spray all the 
plants and this leads me to my next question.  If I do spray the plants, do I 
need to worry about getting the chemical or whatever I use on the cones?  And 
if so how do you get the residue off or how do I make sure I have it all off 
before throwing them in while brewing?

Personal emails are ok and preferred.  email:  Hudson333 at aol.com

Carl Hudson


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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:28:25 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: 1275, 1318, drunks and Milds

1275 is a wonderful yeast for bitters, and a generally clean high
attenuation yeast. It's our favorite for bitters and pales. 1318 is much
fruitier and sweeter. I prefer to use 1968 when I want a full malty flavour
for ESBs, porters etc.

For Pete's Wee Heavy the 1275 has the attenuation but not the flavour
profile. 1728 is the best I think.


Musings on drunks, part or full time and beer.

I love beer. And I don't mind the buzz. But the taste is all-important.
Lower gravity means I get to drink more beer!

My quest, like a previous poster, is the perfect Mild.
(But that doesn't necessarily mean low gravity, just low bitterness. But my
Milds are lower gravity as well and  I'd like to brew a perfectly full
flavored Mild at about 3.5%.)

I'm getting close with my Hurricane, OG: 33 IBU:15, but I think I need to
tweak the OG upwards and use a higher mash temp and bigger bill.  FWIW,
Beeston's Amber contributes masses of malt flavour, unlike any other Amber.
It is really its own category, not comparable to other Ambers. It has a
flavour somewhere between a roasty Biscuit and a Special B. It's an
essential ingredient in the Hurricane, which needs as big flavour as it can
get at such low gravs. I also use only floor-malted Maris Otter in the
Milds, again to have big flavour from the base malt.

We have a massive flavored mild, that may fulfill one posters request for a
low-alcohol porter. Our  Breakspeare Dark Mild has loads of roasted flavour,
so it tastes like a porter. Dark Crystal and Black patent give it its
flavour. Use Maris Otter again, and a high mash temp.

Would anyone care to share a big flavored Mild recipe?


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:47:37 EDT
From: Osew at aol.com
Subject: Malolactic Cultures For Cab Sauv Kit

Hello HVDers,

It is about time we bottle our '99 wines and start planning for the 2000 
harvest.  I have located several grape sources nearby and look forward to 
doing my second grape wine.  I learned lots from the HVD, reading, networking 
with the local pros and 'just doing it' during '99.  Made a few mistakes but 
bottled 3 cases of Chardonnay that promise to be more than enjoyable once it 
rounds out.

In the mean time, I have inherited a Selection Series kit made by Brew King.  
15 liters of juice and concentrate that make 23 lilters/6 US gallons.

The kit is a Cabernet Sauvignon.  No mention is made of conducting a 
malolactic ferment, MLF.  Why?  Would I ruin the kit if I introduce a MLF 
culture?  It is my understanding that this grape usually is taken through MLF.

The kit instructions are geared to complete the wine within 6 - 8 weeks.  I 
am not in a hurry and would like to process it as if I were starting with 
pressed juice.

The kit calls for adding bentonite and oak shavings to the primary on day 
one.  This is not done until dryness is reached and after a cold conditioning 
period of 30 - 60 days for wines made from fresh picked grapes.  Will I go 
wrong by treating it in a more traditional manner?  I produced a bright 
Chardonnay without any finings at all, bottling after 9 months.

Thanks, Wendell Ose - Reston, Va.



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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:18:10 EDT
From: "Bob Sutton" <anerobe at hotmail.com>
Subject: Fruit Fly Adjuncts

Mark.Rancourt at PSS.Boeing.com asked has anybody brewed with fruit flies 
lately?

Mark, generally spring and fall are optimal seasons for fruit fly brewing 
here in South Carolina. I find that the heat and humidity combine to produce 
a lethargic effect which results in a tart lactic-acid like after taste. 
While this complements many a stout or robust porter, it overwhelms the 
Belgians, wits, and ales I favor in the summer months.

I've thought about substituting gypsy moths, which are highly active in the 
summer months here, but it's such a pain to sneak up on them while they are 
resting in the pre-dawn hours - a time when I too am resting.

Many folks have written me wondering when to introduce fruit flies into the 
brewing process. I believe that a modified hopback is the optimal solution, 
and properly executed, results in a subtle black cherry aftertaste. In 
addition I've noticed that the head retention lasts well until the last sip. 
Perhaps the protein load is enhanced.

In September, I plan to experiment with "dry-hopping" the flies in the 
secondary, and I'll report back here at that time.

Thanks for your interest.

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today

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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:13:29 -0500
From: "John or Barb Sullivan" <sullvan at anet-stl.com>
Subject: Answers from Steve Michalak of A-B

John,
Listed below are the submitted questions with my response.  I've enjoyed
working ith you and interacting with the brewers in your organization.
Good Luck,
Steve Michalak

>1.Tim Fahrner asks:
>
>My question is about scaling recipes from large scale to homebrew sized
>batches, and vice versa. Specifically, are you aware of any grist
>components which do not scale linearly from one size to the other? For
>instance, can the percentages of specialty malts, roasted malts,
>adjuncts, etc. from one recipe be simply multiplied by the total units
>(lbs., Kg, or whatever) of a given batch size to give the same results? I
>realize that hop utilization rates will vary from large to small scale
>batches, so hopping rates are not a primary focus of my question.

A. In my experience, grain bills scale up predictably both for extract and
wort color.    

>2. Darrel Leavitt asks:
>
>Thankyou for agreeing to educate us!  I have heard that one of the main
>differences between Bud and Busch is that the former uses rice as an
>adjunct, while the latter uses corn.  Are there other major differences
>that may concern all-grain homebrewers who, on occasion, try to make
>lighter pilsners and lagers for friends who may not like the darker ales?
>
A. You are correct.  The biggest difference between Budweiser and Busch is
that Bud is brewed with rice and Busch with corn grits.  Rice produces a
cleaner, crisper profile while corn grits provide a smoother, sweeter
profile. Additionally, Budweiser uses imported hops such as Alsace
(strisslespalt),Select, and Hallerau.  Busch is brewed with mild domestic
aroma hops.  Essentially the same brewing techniques are applied to both
brands. 

>3.  Micah Millspaw asks 3 questions.
>
>1. does  A-B still use strain masters?

A. Yes in some of our older breweries we still use our strain master
technology.  However, lauter tuns technology has made sufficient advances
in recent years that they are our preference for current
expansion/modernization  projects. 

>2. does A-B use whirl pools or cool ships to settle wort?

A. I don't believe we've used coolships since prohibition.  Our cooling
train starts with a whirlpool separator followed by hot wort aeration. 
This patented step cools our wort about 40F but this step is intended to
drive off the wort components that will produce the dimethyl sulfide (DMS),
cream corn flavor.  After the hot wort aerator, wort is cooled with
plate-in-frame heat exchanger and then allowed to settle further in a cold
wort settling tank.  This cold wort settling, a process step that is rarely
used by brewers, allows further removal of trub.  Trub will produce
undesirable harsh flavors.  After the cold wort settling, the wort is
aerated, pitched and pumped into a fermenter. 

>3. does A-B reclaim the parcipitate from the whirl pool (or other)
>and return it to a later mash?

A. Hot trub is recovered from the whirlpool tanks and blended into our
spent grains.   Spent grains, as you may know, are recycled as the favorite
feed for cattle.   We do not recycle anything back into the mash. 

>Will Kolb asks:
>
>Ask a young beer drinker living in STL (21 y/o drinking age in Mo. and
>19 y/o across the river for men and 18 y/o for women) I remember
>buying cases of Busch for my buds and I at about 5 bucks a case. I
>seem to remember the cans had much larger and brighter green pine
>trees on them. I all so remember Busch only  being available in the
>STL area and then later becoming a premium beer and thus becoming
>available everywhere. Am I remembering correctly or has all the AB
>brewery tours of my youth fogged my mind.;-)

A. Your memory is partially correct concerning the Busch cans.  Busch,
introduced in 1955, was sold in cans that displayed an alpine scene
complete with bright green pine trees and chalets.  In 1964, the can design
underwent a change that dropped the chalets, changed the tree color to blue
while increasing their size and more prominently displayed the
Anheuser-Busch A & Eagle.  The pricing seems about right.

>Jeff Renner asks:
>
>Here's one for him - can you ask him about protein rests with modern
>malts? We have heard that they are unnecessary and can even be
>detrimental.  Perhaps he could tell us what the mash temps are for
>Budweiser.  I believe it includes a rest at 119F stepped up to 148 with
>the cereal mash addition.

A.  You heard correctly.  Protein rests are not necessary with today's
well-modified malts that provide ample free amino nitrogen for yeast
growth.  Traditional rests around 124F can produce gums which will hurt
foam.  Budweiser is mashed-in at 109F and converted and 147F.



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