---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The ease of beermaking ("Brian Lundeen")
  Re: Jugding ("Paul Carmichael")
  Re. Judging ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Stupid brewer trick #1739a (Eric Reimer)
  Hi (DGScuba)
  (no subject) (DGScuba)
  Can I be an Aussie (LyndonZimmermann)
  Re: Maize Malting for a different brew. ("J. Kish")
  repost of a/b amylase (Regan Pallandi)
  Re: To be an aussie; mash times (Ant Hayes)
  Promash software ("Braam Greyling")
  Vernor's recipe?? ("Blanchard, Steven B. Col DTHC-Pentagon")
  Attaching Bottle Caps: Thanks (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
  Re: dry hopping (KMacneal)
  anchor tour ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Attaching bottlecaps ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  The rainbow yawn ("Dave Edwards")
  Hot Break-- Definition ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Black Cat Mild (Jeff Renner)
  Re: yobbos and water (Jeff Renner)
  brewing in Sioux Falls? (Martin Dennis)
  HBD? ("FLEMING, JOE")
  Re: Aussie Nonsense Or Scientific Thirsting? (Jeff Renner)
  multiple hot/cold breaks ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: Nonsense and Scientific Thirsting ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Yeast wars are on... (happydog)
  Bottle Caps / Stuck Again ("Bob Sutton")
  Beta amylase lifetime (Dave Burley)
  attaching bottlecaps... ("Alan Meeker")
  ???'s about Doc"Otis' (hal)
  Better Burradoo Backyard Bathysphere Beliefs ("Phil & Jill Yates")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:17:36 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: The ease of beermaking

Dave Burley comments:

> I suspect that making beer is so much work and takes such a long
> concentrated effort to be successful  that few true
> alcoholics ("drunks")
> take up this hobby.
>

Unfortunately, this is no longer true. While brewing beer is time consuming,
even if you are using extracts, "making" beer is becoming as simple as
turning grape juice into wine.

BrewHouse and WortWorks sell high-gravity worts that require only an
addition of water and yeast. Paddock Wood, and probably other places, are
selling pails of fresh wort to their local customers that only require
pitching the yeast. In other words, there is a growing market for taking the
brewing out of homebrewing.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. BrewHouse kits got me started before I
leapt into all-grain. Anything that gets more people started into the hobby
is good for the hobby as a whole, although it would be nice if people
progressed beyond that stage. On the down side, it does open up the world of
"beermaking" to those whose sole interest is lowering the cost of feeding
their alcohol consumption habit. In Canada, a bottle of BrewHouse beer costs
about 35 cents, once you get past the initial equipment costs. If you're
sucking back a half dozen wobbly pops a day, the savings quickly add up, and
all it takes is a couple of hours of your time TOTAL to ferment, prime and
bottle. Hell, if you're going through them that fast you don't really need
to do more than give the bottles a good rinsing. They won't be around long
enough to get infected and if they did, would the guzzler even care?

Nope, it's never been easier for the drunks to get into homebrew..., excuse
me, beermaking. The fact that we do not consider them to part of the
homebrew fraternity, per se, is likely a subtlety that will be lost on the
general populace.

Brian



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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:37:34 -0400
From: "Paul Carmichael" <hoagie2 at home.com>
Subject: Re: Jugding

Thanks for the response.  Guess I should have included what part of the
world I'm.  I'm in the Tidewater area of Virginia.  Any where withing a 50
mile radius I would be willing to bring a sample.  Mailing isnt outa the
question either.  Kitchen supplies right?

Paul



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Date: 03 Aug 2000 13:11:12 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Re. Judging

>From: "Paul Carmichael" <hoagie2 at home.com>:
>
>Would anyone be willing to give me prejudge on a beer Im entering in a
>comptetion.  This will be my first and I'm just a bit curious how my beer
>stands up.

Well, SURE!  Just let me jot down my address....

Actually, Pat has the full list of 'potential judges'.  Pay special 
attention to the 'non-drunks' category.

 -JL
Salt Lake City, UT

Having a wonderful wine.  Wish you were beer.



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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:16:54 -0400
From: Eric Reimer <eric at etymonic.com>
Subject: Stupid brewer trick #1739a


Hi all.

I have a short stupid brewer trick story followed by a couple of questions.

I recently bottled a batch using in part a Phils Philler and a plastic
bottling bucket.  After bottling, my typical cleanup includes 
soaking the bottling bucket plus miscellaneous plastics like hoses
etc. used in bottling, in a diluted bleach solution.  Here's the
stupid trick.  I decided that I would throw in the Philler as
well.  I had intended on only leaving the Philler in the bleach
solution for ten or so minutes, but as luck would have it, I
got busy doing other tasks and left it overnight.  When I
remembered what I had done, I went to empty out the
bucket and retrieve the Philler.  

What I found was a black substance leaking from the Philler
on to the bottom of the pail.  I *think* the Philler is made from
brass and coated with some nickel alloy.  Upon emptying the
bucket I rinsed everything with hot tap water.  I also tried
scrubbing the black stuff off with my fingers and a soft sponge,
but this did not help.

My questions.  

1.  What is this black stuff?  
2.  How do I remove it from my pail and Philler?  
3.  Will the Philler be safe to use, assuming it can be cleaned?

Thanks for any help,

Eric
Barking Dogs Brewing Co.
London, Ontario



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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:01:51 EDT
From: DGScuba at aol.com
Subject: Hi

I have just been introduced to home brewing and I have made two batches 
successfully with the help of friends and the local brew shop. I have also 
learned that I am not ready to venture out into the field of making witches 
potions! I have found it hard to find beginner and intermediate brewing 
recipes, does anyone now of web addresses or books I could purchase to build 
on my knowledge and fill my belly? Any help would be muchly appriciated!        
                                        DGScuba at aol.com


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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:11:08 EDT
From: DGScuba at aol.com
Subject: (no subject)

Hello again, as to the question about Bramling Cross, I am sitting on the 
second fermentation of a batch using Bramling Cross and I will let you know 
how it turns out!                                                               
                                                                                
DGScuba


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:25:31 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Can I be an Aussie

From: "Leland Heaton"

Graham, Phil, Jill, Keith, Lyndon, etc...Can I be an Aussie? :).. <

I pondered this until Graham bobbed in.  It depends on who you want to adopt
you.  As Graham pointed out, the apprenticeship for being from the north is
pretty tough, though probably easier for foreigners than southeners. Many
don't survive. It's time consuming to become an honorary aborigine, and
that's a totally different program to becoming a Queenslander.  

It's a lot easier in the southern states, but you'd just be filling the
vacuum left by southerners heading north.  (Don't remind me)  A funny
surname helps.

Then there's places like Coober Pedy (outback opal mining town), just
foreigners of every creed.  They'll stitch you up with citizenship before
you even land, if you happen to sit next to one on the flight over and let
on you like beer, flies and dust.

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 21:47:53 -0700
From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Maize Malting for a different brew.

Concerning Keith Menefy's post about brewing a beer
using malted maize:  That sounds like a new direction
to go for a special CAP type brew!
 Keith likes the flavor. Lots of people are enjoying
CAP's since it was brought to light from past history.

 I considered brewing a modernized version of an old
Mexican brew: a Chicha.   Being as how nobody sells
Corn Malt, They malt thier own, then they crush it.
 
They use some strange ingrediants which I will replace
with more modern malts.
 	In Place of       	I will us
      _______________         _______________
   Malta Beer................Six Row Pale
   Xingu Black Beer..........Aromatic Malt
   Chancaca Sugar............Caramel Pils Malt
   Clove-Cinnamon............Irish Moss	

 They mash the mixture at 160F for one hour, then
they collect first runnings for the boil.
 It should make an interesting brew!
   
    Joe Kish


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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 16:43:47 +1000
From: Regan Pallandi <regan at esb.net.au>
Subject: repost of a/b amylase


my post from yesterday seemed to get chopped up, ending up making
 no sense at all 
(no comments on this being the usual state of affairs....)
what it should have said was:

Brad asked about mashing in high and allowing temps. to drop. 
My own observation is through an overnight mash, which obviously 
starts high and ends low. The few I have done seem to have 2 common
characteristics - very high extraction (in the most recent case, 
was aiming for a 1.048 wort and ended up with 1.060) and 
high fermentability - the same wort has ended up at 
1.010 using Whitelabs San Fran lager. Dave B. was alluding 
to this in his latest post also. 

cheers, Regan

Eastern Suburbs Brewmaker
149 Clovelly Rd. Randwick, 2031
N.S.W. Australia
ph/fax (02) 9399 8241
mailto:regan at esb.net.au
http://www.esb.net.au


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:27:11 +0200 
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Re: To be an aussie; mash times

Leland Heaton, confessed, "I am still a youngin, don't exactly know what
chunder is "

Have you never heard of "Chuck Chunder and the Space Patrol"? How much beer
would Chuck Chunder chuck, if Chuck Chunder chugged too much beer?

On a separate note: when mashing with a combination of barley malt and a
grain without much amylase - is there a rule of thumb as to how much longer
you need to mash for?

Ant Hayes
Brewing where beer was invented.


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:47:32 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Promash software

Hi all,

Any opinions on ProMash software ?
Would it be suitable for infusion, step and decoction mashing ?

I find that SUDS' mashing component is not satisfactory.

Regards

Braam Greyling
Snr. Design Engineer
Azoteq(Pty)Ltd

PLEASE NOTE NEW CONTACT DETAILS:
Tel +27 21 8711730  Fax +27 21 8729973
braam.greyling at azoteq.com


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:03:59 -0400 
From: "Blanchard, Steven B. Col DTHC-Pentagon"
Subject: Vernor's recipe??

Recently there have been some threads on brewing ginginger beer.  Was
wondering if anybody has tried to brew anything similar to Vernor's ginger
ale.   I can remember as a boy growing up in Michigan taking a sip or two of
this concoction--remember it as very strong and burning all the way down.  I
didn't appreciate it as a boy but probably would now.  I know it is still
made but wonder if it is the same version of that I remember from the early
sixties.  Has anybody attempted to duplicate that Vernor's taste??

 Steve


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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:14:20 -0400
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob at erols.com>
Subject: Attaching Bottle Caps: Thanks

  Thanks to all who responded with suggestions as to how to attach
bottle caps to clothing.  While my house rang with a resounding forehead
slap as I said 'I should have thought of that,' none of the respondents
to my question were snide -- that I could tell anyway ;-).



- --Rob Hanson
The Closet Brewery
'post tenebras lux'
Washington, DC

- ----

"...They have worked their will on John Barleycorn
But he lived to tell the tale,
For they pour him out of an old brown jug
And they call him home brewed ale."




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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:15:48 EDT
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: dry hopping

In a message dated 8/4/2000 12:39:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "S. SNYDER" 
<SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com> writes:

<< Another question: When one dry hops during racking to the secondary, do you
 put the hop leaves in the secondary first then rack?  The hops seems to
 float to the top of the secondary which makes me wonder how much flavor will
 be imparted to the beer.  Should I agitate the carboy by a little shaking to
 redistribute every so often? >>

When I dry hop I put the hops in the secondary first and rack the beer onto 
them.  I then leave it alone for 2 weeks undisturbed (i.e. no shaking).  The 
hops flavor is there despite the hops floating at the top.  RDWHAHB.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:57:47 -0400 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: anchor tour

I just got back a few days ago from the Anchor tour.  Wow!! It was excellent
and tasting the fresh stuff was a treat.  In the beginning of the tour they
talk a bit about each of there brews and give some history.  We were lucky
enough to get to sample the Liberty ale before the tour even started and I
was psyched.  I almost jumped over the bar to grab it.  

I don't know how much of this info has been printed in the past but here is
some stuff that is new I think.  They brew 110 barrel batches.  They use
first runnings from 3 mashes  to make the Old Foghorn.  Only Foghorn and
Libery are dryhopped.  They wouldnt confirm if the same hops for dryhopping
were used in both although it sure smelled like it.  Small beer is now
available in keg as well as the old bottle as well.  mash time on all beers
is 90 minutes.  They krausen their beer at 3 days after fermentation begins
by filling tank to 85% full with 3 day old beer and then filling remainder
with 1 day old beer.  They flash pasterize.  annual production is 100,000
barrels.  this compares to about 500,000 at Sierra nevada supposedly.  tend
to do 4-5 batches per day each taking about 4-5 hours to complete. only
lager made now is Steam.  Porter is 10% dark grains (chocolate and black
patent). the mash is direct gas fired and mash is at multiple temps from I
think 117 to 170 or so. production schedule tends to be all lager or all ale
on a daily basis.  70% of production is steam beer.  their fermentation
tanks are stainless and not on the roof even though in the ol`days they were
redwood pitch lined and on the roof. small beer is 2.7% ABV.  old foghorn is
brewery aged for 6-9 months and varies greatly in alcohol per year from mid
8 to 10ish.

their hop room smells fanatstic.  wish I could have taken a bail of hops
home with me.  the hallway between the stairs and the bathroom smells just
like malt.  perhaps the mill is located somewhere near there.  they said
that the grain is weighed and ground somewhere up thereabove the mash tuns.
their 3 vessel system is about 50 yrs old and copper.  pretty neat looking
for sure.]

very fun tour and I'll go back for sure again.

Getting to taste all their brews was fun.  Plenty to drink for sure with
multiple tastings if you wanted.  guess I tried Liberty around 5 times and
Foghorn 2 or 3.  Sample size was perhaps 4-6 oz. I was surprized how much
aroma of roast and chocolate the porter had when sampled.  i don't think
that this travels well heading east.  

we headed up to the Tornado for a quick drink so I could check it out and we
had some Boont Amber from anderson valley and I had a Hop 2 It by ???.  The
Boont was good on tap and the Hop 2 It seemed to have too much diacetyl.
Gotta get there for the Barley wine festival.  Over to Ali Babas cave for
mediteranean dinner and then jump a red eye back to NY.

On my brew news, just getting a Thames Valley starter going for a rye ale
and a smoked porter in the next few weeks.  

Pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:47:32 -0500
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu>
Subject: Attaching bottlecaps

How I have seen it done:
1) Get a hot glue gun.. nothing is ever any fun if you can't burn 
yourself trying.
2) Get some thin (1/8-3/16") urethane foam, cut into squares that 
mostly fill the bottlecap
3) Find a hobby store and hold your breath as you get past the 
scented candles until you find "tie-tac" type fasteners  Buy some.
4) Put the sharp side of the tac's back through the foam squares.
5) Put hot glue on the bottlecap's inside surface (or on the foam 
square, or both, just to be safe)
6) Stick the foam back firmly to the inside of the bottlecap, taking 
care not to puncture yourself on the pointy end of the tac.
7) Let cool
8) Stick the pointy end through the garment (or body part, if you're 
in to that sort of thing) and secure it with the tac's clasp.
9) Impress your friends with spiffy bottlecap attire... ooooo, ahhhhhh!
 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:37:20 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: The rainbow yawn

Leland Heaton put forth the folowing:
> I am still a youngin, don't exactly know what chunder is but I'll give it
a
> go.

Mate, it is because you're a youngin' that you will be well familiar with
the art of the 'chunder'. A rainbow yawn is my personal favourite
expression, but chundering is the result of partaking in just that bit too
much homebrew, and deciding that you just needed another look at it.

> Once again...I lack the culture, I don't know "CARTON", |

A carton mate, is 24 beers wrapped in a box (I believe you may call them a
'case' or a 'slab')

>If I yak, I yak, but I will try any drink, just to expierence.

See mate, you know what a blunder is, seems that you've got the art down
too. The art itself can be divided into two categories, consistency, and
distance. It is often a begginners mistake to go for consistency, that's how
you can always tell a pro, they're shootin' it out a looooooong way.




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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 02:19:56 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Hot Break-- Definition

In response to Ant Hayes who wrote:

>In a post yesterday, Peter J. Calinski asked, "How to create multiple hot
>breaks and are they good or bad? "

>He defined hot break as the foam at the start of the boil.

Back to me.

Sorry, I was a bit terse with my description of what I call hot break.  
When the wort is first heated, as it approaches boiling temperature, a
layer of foam starts to form.  As the boil starts, this layer becomes quite
thick in both dimension and density.  I have to carefully control the
temperature or it will boil over quite easily.  After some number of
minutes, this foam begins to disappear and soon, all is gone and the
surface of the wort is clear, even under a hard rolling boil.

Later, I have found that if I add water to top off the level, or in the
case of a few days ago, I dropped in the immersion chiller, the same
process described above is repeated.

My question was, is this detrimental of beneficial to the final product?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:53:59 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Black Cat Mild

Thanks to Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu> for relaying the report
that Moorhouse's Black Cat mild from Burnley, Lancashire, won the Best Beer
in Britain at the GBBF.  That is good news for mild lovers.  Here are some
details about the beer from the CAMRA Real Ale Almanac:

Black Cat Mild
OG 1034  ABV 3.2%
Ingredients:  Halcyon pale malt (60%), chocolate malt (10%), invert sugar
(17%), flaked maize (13%).  Fuggles whole hops.

Tasting notes:
Nose:  Roasted grain and nut aromas
Palate:  Chocolate notes in mouth, sweet but dry finish
Comments:  Dark mild with roast malt character.

I note that this is a lot of adjunct, and wonder if the invert sugar is
caramelly.  The invert I tasted in Essex had a mild flavor.  There is also
a lot of chocolate malt, which might contribute to the noted dry finish,
but that might also come from hops.  I wish the hopping lever were
reported.  And, of course, the yeast used would have a big influence on the
character of the beer.  Moorhouse has been around since 1865, so it may
well use an old, unique strain.

Wish we could taste it.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:35:50 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: yobbos and water

Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu> writes

>On a beer-related topic, I have just brewed my first beer at the new
>residence here in SE Wisconsin. The water is well-water, run through a
>softener with salt-pellets. I also noticed that said pellets have an
>additive which is supposed to preserve the softener device. It will be
>three weeks before I can sample the beer, but does anyone have experience
>of brewing with water from such a set-up?

It's generally not a good idea to use softened water in brewing - and it's
especially important not to use it for all grain brewing, at least not as
is.  The reason is that the softener substitutes two sodium ions for every
calcium ion in the water (it also replaces the magnesium).  We want calcium
for the mash enzymes to work properly, and sodium is generally not wanted
in very high levels.  If your water is hard enough (enough calcium and
magnesium) to warrant softening, then you'll have an awful lot of sodium.

Your unsoftened water may be fine for brewing, but you should get an
analysis first of the important stuff - calcium, sulfate, total hardness,
alkalinity, iron - you could search the archives for more detail.

I hope you'll report back on how the beer turned out.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:33:18 -0400
From: Martin Dennis <martin.dennis at yale.edu>
Subject: brewing in Sioux Falls?

Hi folks,
First, I'd like to thank everybody on the list for providing great 
brewing info and daily breaks from the dissertation. Second, I'm 
moving soon to Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Anyone here know anything 
about brew stores and brewpubs in the area? Private emails fine. TIA.

Finally moving back to the upper Midwest US,
Marty


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:35:00 -0400 
From: "FLEMING, JOE" <JOE.FLEMING at spcorp.com>
Subject: HBD?

     Dear Janitor,
     
        My Homebrew Digest subscription seems to have been interrupted 
     first by some Australian culture chat room and now by a seeming 
     hybrid between Miss Manners and Political Correctness Weekly.
        Please resume my subscription to the valuable Homebrew Digest.
     
        Thanks,
        
        Joe


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:46:23 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aussie Nonsense Or Scientific Thirsting?

rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) writes:
>I had this idea that maybe I can weigh the water first, then
>start carbonating and then weigh again and see how much the scale will show
>me.
>
>So for now this is the end of the story.  I will try it very soon and report
>the results. Would anyone like to guess the outcome?

A mole of CO2 weighs 44 grams and occupies 22.4 liters at standard
temperature and pressure.  So if you are carbonating your 2 liters of water
with 2 volumes at STP, the CO2 would weigh about 8 grams.  Of course, at
colder temperatures, 2 volumes would be more gas and would weigh more, but
that requires more calculations than I feel like doing.

At any rate, it seems it would be measurable by an accurate scale.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:12:21 -0400 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: multiple hot/cold breaks

Pete calinski asks:

So my questions are:

Why does adding low temperature water or an immersion chiller cause the
foam to form.
(In the case of the immersion chiller, a layer of copper oxide comes off
each time but I don't know if that is useful information.)?

Multiple breaks are caused by the decrease in temperature causing material
that was soluble at high temperatures to crash out of solution when you pass
through the "meta-stable" solubility zone that exists above the solubility
limit.

The layer of copper oxide that comes off may provide additional nucleation
sites (termed "seeding") for further material to crash out of solution and
crystallize/precipitate on.

The foam would be caused by the rapid formation of small solids sites for
boiling bubbles to nucleate and grow on.  Even if your oxide layer isn't
flaking off, it is most likely rough enough to provide nucleation sites.

Presumably, these breaks probably cause less of a cold break to occur later
in the process upon chilling thus perhaps reducing cold break material that
makes it into your primary fermentor.  One might think that intermediately
formed hot break material may solubilize after boiling temperature is
reached and this is probably partially true.

Hope this helps.  Nice to see my crystallization course helping in something
besides work.

Pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:59:32 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Re: Nonsense and Scientific Thirsting

Ron wrote: 

>Well, as I was shaking, I was thinking,
>how can I know when I have just the right amount of carbonation. I was also
>thinking about the great little Ohaus beam scale my son gave me for
>Christmas (great gift).  It is so sensitive that I can detect the addition
>of 2 barley grains when weighing some grain.  This seems quite sensitive, I
>thought.  Well, I had this idea that maybe I can weigh the water first,
then
>start carbonating and then weigh again and see how much the scale will show
>me.

At first I thought it would be like trying to weigh a fart, but I decided it
would be a good exercise in seeing if I still remember my chemistry.  Plus,
it's been about a decade since I used this equation last and it still
plagues my nightmares - even many years after college.  Some psychologists
believe it's best to confront your demons to chase them away.  Here goes...

Let's assume that you're drinking you average beer served up in a pint glass
at 45 degrees F and carbonated at 2.5 volumes.  You'd need to pressurize
your keg to 13.3 psi to get that level of carbonation.  Now that's 13.3 over
standard pressure (which is 14.7 psi) so you really have 28 psi on your beer
to work in the Ideal Gas Law equation.

Your pint glass is 0.47 Liters, but you're shoving 2.5 times that volume
(1.175 L) into it, so you will need to know how many grams of CO2 is in
1.175 L of gas at 45 F and 28 psi.

Do a few conversions of your numbers to get them into the SI system and plug
'em into the PV=nRT equation.  Solve for n and you'll get 0.0973 moles.  CO2
has a MW of 44.01 g/mol so that leaves us with a grand total of 4.28g of CO2
in your pint glass.  You should be able to measure this on your balance.
This just doesn't look right to me, but I've checked my math a few times and
all adds up.  Can we get a REAL chemist to check this?  Then maybe I can
sleep well at night again ;-)

If my math is OK then your actual observed value may be off a little since
you'll lose some CO2 upon dispense, plus you'll have to tare a degassed
sample.  Would I bother with this?  No.  Stick to the carbonation charts and
if you trust your thermometer and your regulator, you'll be better off.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 17:20:07 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: Yeast wars are on...

I just got my bi weekly White Labs shipment and it looks like they
have felt/seen the Wyeast shampoo bottle. White labs has easily
doubled the amount of yeast per a much larger, base ball bat like,
tube.  If this keeps up I will soon be selling full pint jars of white
labs yeast right from the fridge. ;-) Anyone pitched one yet? 


Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com


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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:00:47 EDT
From: "Bob Sutton" <anerobe at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bottle Caps / Stuck Again

Rob asked...
>>>Can any of you brew-inventers think of a way to attach
(unflattened) bottle caps to an item of clothing (a hat, a vest) without 
piercing the top of the cap?<<<

One word... VELCRO

Edward bemoaned...
>>>I swear I will never ever use pellet hops again.

I just finished my second ever-mashed beer and it was nowhere near as easy 
as the first. First I got a stuck sparge. I couldn't recalculate much 
because it blocked
up this will teach me to use oats and more wheat than barley when I cant get 
rice hulls.<<<

Generally "more wheat" will increase the liklihood of a stuck sparge. 
Looking at your recipe, I would increase the 2-row to ~50% - of course that 
will alter the style/taste profile.

>>>I couldn't get the hops I wanted in plugs so I used pellets unfortunately 
>>>the bags broke and the kettle straining system is badly clogged. In 
>>>future
if I cant get plug hops I wont be brewing.<<<

I feel you pain (been there, burped...). When I can't avoid pellets, I limit 
my straining activities to a copper scrubby enshrined in cheese cloths (no 
heroics...). Failing that, I let the trub pass through knowing that I will 
leave much of it in the decantation to the secondary. Having a few extra 
beers at that time helps too... ;-)

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:05:52 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Beta amylase lifetime

Brewsters:

Aaron Sepanski said something like "Bet beta amylase is denatured at 150F".
I'll bet you'd be wrong, Aaron.  We have had many long, heated discussions
on this subject ( see the HBD archives) .  But in practical terms beta
amylase <in a mash of normal thickness at the normal calcium content ,
normal temperature program, etc., etc.> will have a halflife of somewhere
around 15 minutes even at 158F. SO given the higher reaction rate at 158F
it is still pretty effective for maybe 30 to 45 minutes.

I am curious about how you came to the conclusion you had to add beta
amylase enzymes and other enzymes to your rmashes. Why, how and when?
- -----------------------------------
Ron. I suggest you weigh the CO2 cylinder to see how much you have added
rather than the keg. Better chance to get a good result,IMHO and it will
put less strain on the scale. I have used a postal scale like this with a
small cylinder.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:49:07 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: attaching bottlecaps...

Attaching bottlecaps to clothing? One word: "Velcro."

 -Alan




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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 16:23:13 -0500
From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com>
Subject: ???'s about Doc"Otis'

Hey can anyone tell me the calories a bottle of this stuff has ?
The label says nothing, the Busch site doesn't seem to say.
Is this worth trying to recreate ?
        Hal



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Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:56:12 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Better Burradoo Backyard Bathysphere Beliefs

For Jeff, Glen and anyone else interested,

Eric Ahrendt emailed me to suggest that when the regulator is set to a
pressure, it's internal mechanism will maintain this pressure against
ambient, regardless of ambient changes. So, if Jill pulled the big lever to
vacuumate (my own word here) Wes and me (which she would dearly love to do,
if only I would give her the opportunity) the pressure reading on the
regulator would remain unchanged.
So if it was set at 15psi (which is really 30psi above absolute), it would
remain at 15psi after evacuation. Similarly, if Jill slaved away for half
the day on the billows in an attempt to blow Wes and me up, despite a much
greater pressure within the bathysphere, our regulator would still read
15psi.

Thinking about it, I suspect Eric's suggestion is correct.


Cheers
Phil






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