---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  ProMash in 'stralia (Calvin Perilloux)
  root beer recipe (Fxtrotr2)
   ("plotek")
  Bleach Disolves Glass?  RIGHT!!!! (Rod Prather)
  rugby ("Keith Menefy")
  Subject: Whirlpooling the answer to Edwards pellet hop woes ("don watts")
  Diabetic beer ("John Pietrzak")
  Noble Hops (pjwilcox)
  False Bottom Design (Richard Foote)
  Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La (Tidmarsh Major)
  Mash manifold idea ("Sweeney, David")
  Bleach is NOT Sodium Hydroxide (Joseph Gibbens)
  Ginger Ale (Nathan Kanous)
  slang (Jim Bermingham)
  Drunks, DUI (Jim Bermingham)
  dissecting the digest (Aaron Perry)
  Bleach / "drunk" flames & netiquette (David Harsh)
  Selling Beer? (Andrew McLaughlin)
  even More "hurl" terms.... (happydog)
  invert/Golden Syrup ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  I am ashamed of myself ("John Palmer")
  Beer spiking samples ("pksmith_morin")
  Vernor's recipe ("Donald D. Lake")
  Another Sooky, Sooky La La ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  The land of plenty ("Warren White")
  the decoction momily... (William Macher)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 20:26:31 -0400
From: Calvin Perilloux <peril at compuserve.com>
Subject: ProMash in 'stralia

Warren White in the last HBD put in a nice plug for ProMash in Australia.
I have to concur.  I bought a copy a couple of years ago and have been
a happy user ever since.  (Actually, my wife bought me a copy for my
birthday, the sweet thing, downloaded over Internet, which now might 
get the GST police on you these days?  I dunno.)

It's a wonderful piece of software despite the jealous-rage-inducing
list of ingredients in its standard inventory that drives people mad if
they're out of reach of the homebrew-mall USA brew shops.  (That's
another story though, that a good brewer can make better beer with
a limited ingredient range than a careless one can with a hundred 
different types of malts and hops.)

Best of all, compared to other homebrew packages I compared at the
time, ProMash is easily configured to metric units.  Thank the Lord,
none of those old English/Imperial/American units!   No, thank Jeffrey 
Donovan, who wrote ProMash.  He deserves every dollar we paid him,
and his support and desire to get fixes and new features out to his users 
is about the best, most responsive I have seen in PC software.  ANd no,
I have no connection with him or his company, just a very satisfied user.

Highly recommended.  

Calvin Perilloux
Frederick, Maryland
(but before that Turrella, Australia, which I maybe never should'a left)



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 21:30:04 EDT
From: Fxtrotr2 at aol.com
Subject: root beer recipe

anyone out there have a good mix for making a fermented root beer? also would 
like to have a mix for duplicating Castlemain Austrailian beer that we can do 
in our home micro.  e-mail if you have anything to    fxtrotr2 at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:56:07 +1000
From: "plotek" <plotek at optushome.com.au>
Subject: 

RE Dave Edwards' : Aussie slang

Dave, I have had this problem with americans when
 i first started posting here and on chats etc. We do
speak a different language than they.

I have read a very old american article on brains
being described in terms of left dominant or right.
Yet most doctors here refer to us home brewers
and pisspots as being "brained".

No wonder we dense up as we cross the
international date line

all i can say is k'noath and keep it up

MudGuts




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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 01:11:41 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Bleach Disolves Glass?  RIGHT!!!!

Bleach Dissolves Glass???? 

Ok.  Everyone look inside your washing machine.  That gray and white 
pebble finish on the inside of the tub is ... TADA... vitreous enamel.  
That's Right, Glass.  Any questions????  
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:23:53 +1200
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: rugby

>The Wallabies got up: The Australian national rugby union team beat New
>Zealand in a close game to retain the Bledisloe Cup.



The 16th. player helped a wee bit to.



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:19:26 -0400
From: "don watts" <dwatts23 at home.com>
Subject: Subject: Whirlpooling the answer to Edwards pellet hop woes


> A couple of digests back, Edward from WA (thats Western Australia, not
> Washington) lamented his stuck boiler drain system following using pellet
> hops. He swore never to brew again unless he could get whole hops.

That's funny, because I have had the exact opposite results, plug and whole
cause my drain to clog. I agree that whirlpooling alleviates the problem.

Don Watts
Shadetree Brewing
Goose Creek, SC

Nuclear Fission is nice, but none of the really cosmic
breakthroughs can hope to surpass the utility and availability of
the white 5-gallon plastic bucket. - J. Taylor Buckley







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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 21:05:16 +1000
From: "John Pietrzak" <lynel at globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Diabetic beer

Unbelievable!  The HBD contains more info than I'll ever need - from
weighing farts to speaking Aussie - but not a single mention of  Diabetic
Beer.  If y'all think there is no such thing - think again.  Castlemaine
Perkins brewers of Queenslands popular XXXX (tastes like cats piss compared
to homebrew)   also brew a Diabetic Beer.  Unfortunately they ain't on the
net.  Folks up north are a few years behind the rest of the world I think.

My brewing technique is as simple as1234.
1. Buy can of Coopers concentrate  (preferably Old Dark Ale)- about $10
2. Add water (rain water collected from the roof works great as long as
there aint no dead rats or or too many leaves and shit in your gutters)
yeast and leave till ready.  I never add sugar - I prefer lite beer.
Occasionally I add honey or liquorice for flavour.
3. Bottle, cap, leave to mature, and then .......my favourite part:-
4. Drink.

Yup!  I drink a few 750ml bottles each and every day, that probably gets me
into the classification of an alcoholic.  But at least I only drink at home
and I dont drink/drive.  That way I can enjoy the beautiful Bellingen
sunsets each afternoon and relax with a nice coldie.

Must be time 4 one now.
Cheers mates!!!
Johnny Redneck



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:22:36 -0400
From: pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com
Subject: Noble Hops

Rod,

Ill take a morning with out coffee after a night with plenty of beer and
mead kind of shot at it. (ie, this is from the hip, not the texts'. Noble
adj. Of, in, or belonging to the nobility. Superior in nature or character.
So who in europe originally owned the beer brewing market? The nobility.
Who owned the grain fields? The nobility. Who owned the hop fields? The
nobility. Who owned the peasents who harvested the grains and hops? The
nobility. You get the picture. The problem with naming things after their
owners, is well, Nobles change. But the names of regions don't, or at least
not as often.

So the best of King Wencleaslaus's hops came from Zatec (Saaz), The best of
Austrian/Hungarain empire hops came from Hallertau and Tettnag. The best
English hops came from Kent. These have the "Noble-est" of characters. They
have a pleasing aroma and a smoother bitterness than other varities. Some
People include Fuggles and Slovenian Goldings in this group also. They are
the old world hops. Those that were chosen as the best from hundreds of
years of trial and error. Not those that were created in hundreds of trials
without any error. Like Magnum, Chinook, Crystal and the others.

Noble hops typically have low alpha-acid levels and if I remember right,
similar Mercene and Cohumolone levels. These are the compounds that are
responsible for the aromatics if I remember correctly.

Phil Wilcox




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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:38:59 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: False Bottom Design

Brain Trust,

I am looking to revamp my mash/lauter tun.  It will be made using a
converted keg, which is what I have now.  Brewing with fellow club members,
I have experienced three different designs-- mine and two others.

Designs:
Mine- ss false bottom that extends to the total keg diameter and sits about
1 to 1.5 inches up from the keg bottom.  Wort exists from the center,
bottom via a hole and union welded in the bottom with an elbow to get a 90
degree turn and out the side.  Flow is controlled with a ball valve.  I
estimate hole size of the false bottom at 3/32" and 3/32" on center.  

Member #1- ss false bottom by Stainless in Seattle.  It is about 10 in. in
diameter and has a downward curved dip tube in the center to hold down the
false bottom.  The false bottom sits very close to the bottom of the keg as
does the dowward dip tube.  Small hole size--3/32"  

Member #2- ss false bottom made by some company in Tennessee.  It has an
upward dish that extends about 1 in. up from the keg bottom.  Like the S in
S design, it also has the same center dip tube and is roughly of the same
diameter.  It looks like a good, strong design.  The hole size seams larger
than 3/32".

Visual Performance Observations:
Mine- Very difficult to clear run off; requires very long recirculation.
Halfway through the sparge, there's always a "charge" of husks that comes
through.  Stuck mash can be a problem at times.  Cannot be direct fired due
to bottom plumbing.

Member #1- Very easy to clear run off: recirculation of 2 qts. and boom,
it's clear.  Run off stays clear throughout sparge.  Scorching via direct
firing does not seem to be a problem.

Member #2- Very difficult to clear.  Never seems to clear and stays cloudy
throughout the sparge.  Scorching from direct firing seems to be a
problem--burnt carbon deposits.

My goal is to have a good false bottom design that works well with a
motorized mash stirrer and direct heating.  I like the performance of the S
in S design but am worried that the dip tube might get in the way of my
mash stirrer. rather than centered, could the dip tube be off center?  

How can these observations be interpreted?  Does the distance between the
false bottom and bottom of the tun have a bearing here on the observed
performance?  Does the center, bottom outlet of my current design cause the
difficult clearing and charge of husks halfway through?  Does this same
design cause stuck mash via accumulation of husks in the plumbing versus
the mash column itself?  Why doesn't the center outlet effected by the
downward dip tube in the S in S design have the same problems?

I like the large surface area of my design, but this is negated by the poor
quality run off.  Any ideas out there?

TIA,
Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewery and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA







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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:12:41 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La


>>for
>>some reason Doc Pivo sounds like John Cleese in my mind 
>(when he's being proper or official)
>
>Nah - wrong accent.  Think Max Von Sydow.

Funny, I though he sounded more like the Swedish Chef. ;-)

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:40:01 -0500 
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Mash manifold idea

After two rather dissappointing attempts, I think I have happened upon a
good solution for a Sanke Mash tun exit manifold.  Several years ago, I was
intrigued by C.D. Pritchard's idea of using braided stainless sheathing for
a mash exit manifold instead of a false bottom or slotted pipe. (See C.D.'s
excellent description of his manifold at
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/rims_inf.htm#manifold ).  C.D.'s argument for
using the sheathing (which is found covering the supply lines to some of the
best toilets in the world <grin>) was that the flow through the sheathing
was much greater (because of more "holes") than through a false bottom.
Here, I quote from C.D.'s document:

"I had a sight gauge attached to the piping between the tun and pump and to
the tun just above the old false bottom (now replaced with a manifold) and
ran a mash (7# of pale ale malt and a bit of roasted barley) noting the
difference in levels (i.e. pressure) between that gauge and the one in the
pump suction piping. Most of the loss was in the grain bed- 8" there and
another 2" in the false bottom and piping (all 1/2" copper) to the point
where the lower sight guage attaches. Almost all of the later loss is in the
false bottom/grain bed interface since the flow was only about ~1/2 GPM. A
similar mash with the new manifold had only a 1/2" pressure drop in the
manifold and piping and a higher flow rate (about 3/4 GPM)."

This preliminary experiment seems to support data which indicates up to a
50% better flow rate through the grain bed and a decrease in grain bed
pressure (and consequent decreased chance of a stuck mash).  In fact, I
emailed C.D. who told me that he had never had a stuck mash with his
sheathing manifold, which he had tested with 20% wheat, and adjunct.

Where do you get the stainless sheathing? Try
http://PlumbingSupply.Com/flexes.html
The #F2296  at  $8.96 for 8' is good.

I bought two of these, cut the ends off, and stripped the rubber tube from
the inside of the sheathing.  These were connected to each other with a 0.5"
brass hose splicer (two hose barbs stuck together).  My first two versions
of the manifold used a single helix coil with an exit at the side of the
helix.  The "far" end of the sheathing was folded and crimped flat, and then
pinched together with a 0.5" piece of soft copper tubing cut longitudinally
and mashed flat (like a "V").  The helix was held in place by some 12 gauge
stripped solid copper wire which was stuck through the sheathing radially,
like the slices of a pizza.  The wire holds the coils together.

Alas, the bottom of most Sanke kegs is curved, so I quickly found out that
too much sweet wort was being left in the bottom of the keg.  The solution
was to make the sheathing a double double helix, each piece of sheathing
making a helix coiled inside the other, with the two exit ends of the
sheathing resting on the bottom of the keg for maximum drainage.  

My kegs have stainess 0.5" (female NPT) couplers welded close to the bottom.
As an outlet pipe from the sheathing, I considered copper pipe with soldered
fittings, but there is no way to "thread" the soldered manifold into the
coupler because there is no room to turn the whole shebang once it's resting
on the bottom of the keg.

The solution was to use flexible copper supply pipe (0.5") with a flare nut.
The flare nut rotates on the supply pipe without requiring that the manifold
be turned. (So it's a gas fitting - who cares?)  So picture this: on the
inside of the keg, there is a female stainless (welded) 0.5" NPT coupler.
Inside of this goes a brass (yes, brass - I de-leaded <grin>) 0.5" male NPT
to 0.5" male flare.  Attached to the 0.5" male flare is a 0.5" brass (yada,
yada) flare nut which connects  a small length of 0.5" OD flexible copper
tubing bent at a gentle 30 degree curve to angle it down to the sheathing.
The flare nut attaches the thing nicely to the adapted keg outlet - no
turning of the manifold required.

Now for the elegant part - how do you connect the copper tubing to the two
it hit me (not the megastore; the idea) - why not use a 0.5" compression
tee?  Even though this gizmo is made for copper tubing, I thought I could
use it to gently attach the stainless sheathing.  It worked like a charm.
So picture this: the un-flared end of the copper tubing (close to the bottom
center of the keg) is attached to the 90 degree input of the compression
fitting and tightened.  The two ends of the stainless sheathing are rolled
back on themselves about 0.25" to make a smooth "rolled" edge, and then
attached in the two other compression tee ports (the ones that are 180
degrees to each other).  The "top" of the tee with the attached sheathing
rests horizontally on the bottom of the keg.  The compression fitting has
small brass (yy) inserts that fit inside the rolled sheathing edges and
protects them from being crimped.

That's it.  I've used it for 3 batches without a hitch.  I have a 510 g/h
magnetically coupled pump (did I mention that my system is a RIMS?) , and I
routinely run it full bore on the mash without any adverse effects or
grainbed compaction.  My next beer with have an appreciable amount of wheat
so we'll see if it works under "stuck-mash-favorable" conditions.

I hope to post some pictures of my manifold soon.  Stay tuned.

David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
david at studentlife.tamu.edu



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:43:27 -0500
From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu>
Subject: Bleach is NOT Sodium Hydroxide

Bleach is a solution of Sodium Hypochlorite, not Sodium Hydroxide I have 
also soaked bottles in strong bleach solutions for months at a time with 
no chemical etching.  

Question, isn't the stuff we use made of Silica and not Soda?  That might 
explain the controversy.  Etching SiO2 requires something REALLY nasty 
like HF, but I'm not sure about Soda. 

Joe



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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:05:59 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Ginger Ale

Hi All,
I can't resist the recent posts about Ginger Ale and Vernor's.  Vernors is 
probably my favorite soft drink.  Mmm good.  Earlier this week on FoodTV 
they did a feature on a soda from Blenheim's bottling.  Apparently they've 
got hot and waayy hot ginger ale.  Anybody in the South Carolina area 
familiar with this?  Willing to swap some Wisconsin beer for some ginger 
ale?  Private e-mail is fine.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:05:18 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: slang

Howdy Yall,
Looks like th' Fellas fum "Down Unner" has done started a thang wif their 
slang. Now, even th' Good Dr. has let his hair down an' is usin' words 
suchas "in'usty", " I reckon" and "cuz". Shucks, I don't thank them thar 
words are proper inglish and im'a fixin to check um out ifin' I cand find 
th' books thats got all them thar corect words.
Ah believe it was jest last summer when th' Yankees started makin' fun of 
th' way us Good Old Fellas fum th' South talk. Shet mah mouth! No one did 
no complainn' back thn', most thought it was right funny makin' fun of 
us'ns' from "DIXIE". Don't know fer sur' why th' fellers wiffn' th' funny 
soundin' talk makes so many A'merkins mad.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX




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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:10:11 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Drunks, DUI

Howdy Again,
Now it seems as though some varmints don't be hankerin t'let a daid 
houn'dog lay. They jest keep on gittin cornfused about gettin' drunk an' 
spewin' their cookies, an' bein a "drunk". Ah dast say most of us haf been 
drunk a few times in our lives. Some mo'e than others an' some a lot mo'e. 
Thet does not in itse'f make yo' a drunk. Ah don't care thet yo' won some 
award in high skoo o' at "The University" on account o' yo' c'd drink a six 
pack mo'e or fastr' than ennyone else o' yo' had th' ability t'blow it out 
yer nose into a glass an' git th' puffict haid o' foam. Dawgone it, this 
hyar still don't make yo' a drunk. Effi'n yer hankerin t'see a "DRUNK", 
hoof it downtown in enny medium t'large size US city an' look aroun'. These 
varmints thet yo' haf been avoidin' eye corntack wif an' pretendin' were 
not really thar' askin' fo' a hand out so they c'd buy some mo'e booz is 
drunks. Now eff'n yo' recon thet yo' fit into this hyar catego'y an' wish 
t'be called a drunk, its up t'yo', ah don't wish t'be called one. 
(Disclaimer) Not all th' homeless yo' see on th' streets is drunks.
Now ah hope thet eff'n yo' does git drunk yo' lets someone who isn' drunk 
do th' driv'n fer yer. Let me tell yo it's no fun t'kill someone. In my 
yo'nger days Uncle Sam put me in a jungle in South East Asia an tol'd me 
mah job was t'kill. Ah recon ah did my job mighty fine an' Dave, I too 
received awards, asa ah said ah did mah job mighty fine. Gentlemen, let me 
tell yo', when you kill someone it ain't much fun. Ah can not imagine bein' 
responsible fo' killin' some innecent Pappy, Mammy, o' Child on account o' 
ah was drivin' while undr' der' influnce of some squezins or some brew.
But I fo'git...... most of yo' complainin' about DUI laws'd nevah haf an 
accident in an autymobile eff'n yo' were duunk. In fack yo' hat' probably 
cornvinced yo'seff thet yo' drive better when yo' had a six pack o' so. I 
have one request t'ax, eff'n yer drivin' drunk in mah neck o' th' woods,  
 let me know so's ah can stay home and git a buz on drinin' mah homebrew 
and play with Maw.
S'pose t'be 99 Degrees Saturday instead of the 100 degrees + its'a been fer 
th' past month. Fall brewing season in just around the corner.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX




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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:32:28 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: dissecting the digest

Hi all,

First let me state my opinion: I like reading Everyone's posts. I'm not seeing
the point of all this sook and continentism (just made that up see def. below:
 

continentism (con-tin-ent-izim) n. 
1. The belief that ones continent accounts for differences in human character
or ability and that a particular continent is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on continent. 
continentist adj. &  n.)

Any way, I say good for Oz and Pat and Steve etc,etc,etc. I love hearing all
the differing viewpoints, cultural nuances and of course differences in
brewing techniques and theories.

As for dissection.....
I had some spare time, so I decided to dissect the last digest. Here's the
break down:
Original digest- 44k
Digest minus Oz posts- 39k
Digest minus drunk posts- 31k
Digest minus both Oz and Drunks- 26k

These numbers are approximate as its possible some little phrases were buried
in a post and missed. The point is, I got most of it.

So bend the numbers to back up your own opinions.

as for mine:
26k........26k......dosn't look full to me, hell! even with all the fun stuff
we didn't fill it up!! And even if we did SO WHAT. I've got a Barleywine to
rack and a mead to keg, Plenty to keep me busy till the next digest, even if
my post gets bumped!. 
That's my 4k.

And my mom wastes her time on the soaps!!

Hope this helps
AP

PS: I'd like to thank Graham,Steve,Glen,Jeff, hell! thanks to the very,very
long list of people all over the world who have answered questions I've had
throughout my stay on the HBD. I brew better beer and I've got an insight into
other cultures, including those of my own country. I wouldn't have had this
without the HBD! Mostly thanks to Pat and Karl for keeping it all together!
Keep it up!


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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:43:12 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Bleach / "drunk" flames & netiquette

Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> writes:
 
> Pure Bleach is essentially a 5% solution of caustic soda ( lye, sodium
> hydroxide) 

Actually, it is sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl, not NaOH, which is sodium
hydroxide.  But then, you may have a different definition of the word "is"...

Clorox<tm> describes itself as a 5.25% solution of NaOCl

NaOH DOES etch glass; I don't know if bleach does, it certainly doesn't
at the levels I used before I switched to iodophor.  

- ------------------------------
"Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> blathers:

>...nettiquette of digest....  
>....(much drivel mercifully deleted)....

Try some decaf, huh?  With a clue or sugar?  Maybe you should go to
hbd.org and read the policies on moderation.  In particular, parts 5-A
and 5-B.  

No beer related topic is censored.   In one case, two daily digest
contributors agreed to take their "is not - is too" argument offline
with regard to testing for sugars in wort.

And by the way, thanks for the extremely useful subject line of your post.

Pat has a right to contribute and I frankly don't care if inserted
himself in the queue a little sooner.  Call it the only payment he got
for his efforts.  If you think he was lax wrt spam, maybe Karl should
let it all through for the next week or so and see how things go.  I
hope Pat reconsiders leaving the digest.  I note that he is no longer
listed as a janitor on duty.  

Dave Harsh					Cincinnati, OH
	Bloatarian Brewing League


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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:15:25 -0700
From: Andrew McLaughlin <amclaughlin at ebuilt.com>
Subject: Selling Beer?

Does anyone know the remifications of selling beer? What are the limits
before I need a license? What does a license cost? What other issues are

there?

I've made two batches so far and both have been getting rave reviews.
However, one up-scale Liquor Store owner wants to begin selling my beer
in their shop. And another wants to sell in their restaurant! :D

Andrew



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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:11:20 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: even More "hurl" terms....

>And don't forget two of my favorites, "screamin at the pebbles" and
>"hollering at the hubcaps"......

I like the term "making pavement pizza" myself


Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:43:05 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: invert/Golden Syrup


In Canada, Rogers Golden Syrup is pure cane sugar (the only one I know of
that isn't mixed with corn sugar or sorbate or other additives).  Use it to
replace Caramel sugar in British Ale recipes. It has about a 33 pt value.

cheers,

Stephen Ross
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:08:39 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: I am ashamed of myself

This is one of those trials of life where you realize that you stood
by and let a friend get crucified because of his honest, respectable,
socially conscious beliefs. I share those beliefs, I wrote and told
him so, but I did not wade into the digest discussion, because I took
a cynical view that I couldn't change anyone and thought it would die
down soon.

Well, now Pat has been thoroughly tarred and feathered by respected
members of the digest, who apparently hold equally strong views for
the right to inebriate.

(Hey, that's not what I said! you say) Well, that wasn't what Pat said
either. His original premise was something like, Don't paint us with a
broad brush as people is search of alcohol, most of us do this for the
taste and the creative process.
And, because of the inherent problems of the quickly written word, and
the lack of tonality and facial expression, harsh words have been read
and responded to.

I got into the same situation years ago on rec.crafts.brewing for
criticizing a college student who wanted to put marijuana in his beer
so he could get really f*cked up. I couldn't believe the negative
feedback I received! I thought about it and decided I didnt have the
right to criticize him, I had the RESPONSABILITY. Response-ability.
The experience to be able to respond, to advise him that he was
heading down a road that could flunk him out of school, as it happened
to my friends, and nearly happened to me.

So, if Pat takes the time to voice an opinion, that the goal of
homebrewing is not the pursuit soley of inebriation, and cautions
everyone to avoid letting that stereotype continue, because here in
the United States we are still struggling to throw off the chains of
Prohibition and still pursueing the legality of home brewing in
several states, and you don't wholeheartedly agree with that, then
take it offline!

God! Am I a hypocrite or what!

John Palmer
jjpalmer at realbeer.com
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/
How To Brew - the book
http://www.howtobrew.com






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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:31:40 -0500
From: "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin at email.msn.com>
Subject: Beer spiking samples

Hello all --

Anyone know of a cheap source of beer spiking samples (acetaldehyde, diacetyl,
dms, etc.) and pure strains of pedio- and lacto-?  I am interested in framing
a sensory evaluation panel, and once read of such a company in one of the
trades, but have since lost track.  Any help would be appreciated.

Paul Smith




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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:24:39 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: Vernor's recipe

I also would be interested in a recipe for Vernor's.  I did find,
however, a very cool website on soft drinks and their history.  There is
a section on the history of Vernor's, as well as CocaCola, Pepsi, Dr.
Pepper, etc and recipes for some as well.

http://www.sodafountain.com/



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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:03:07 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Another Sooky, Sooky La La

Leland decided to have a rant on what he apparently mistook for a sook on
the OT thread:

>Ok...Here we go...Now you say "...but off topic discussions suck for those 
>who want to read about beer."  What in Zeus's butthole prevents beer topics

>to get into hbd.  <snip>  But if people wanted to post about beer, then 
>f*king posts about beer.

I usually steer clear of e-wars and such, but I have to respond to this in a
public forum since Leland's post might give one the impression that I'm
ganging up on our brothers Down Under.  Nothing could be farther from the
truth.  I'm happy to share the HBD and I don't mind an occasional OT post
when the thread has turned away from brewing - no matter where it comes
from.  

Leland, you need to take a course in reading comprehension.  Go back and
read my post again... carefully.  Read out loud if it helps.  You'll see
that I'm implying that the Australians are more tolerant of OT posts than
Americans.  Also, the percieved intolerance by the Americans may be
exacerbated by their ignorance of an Austrailian topic to which they cannot
relate. Our Australian brethren seem to be more laid back.  I am making a
generalized critique of American tolerance - and I'm an American.  So don't
go off on me for that.

>If we didn't have off-topic posts, then the hbd would fail, because only a 
>select number of people would read only off-topic.  What do think makes the
hbd 
>so popular?

Let me answer the question, with a question:  Based simply on the title,
what does "Home Brew Digest" imply to you? <dripping with sarcasm>  Take
your time...  Homebrewing!  Right.  Therefore, by deductive reasoning,
off-topic (OT) posts would have nothing to do with homebrewing.   So if, as
you claim, "there are a select number of people who would read only
off-topic posts" maybe they should start their own digest.  Call it the
non-Home Brew Digest or "nHBD".  If an OT thread persists for too long on
the HBD, it can be moved there.  PAT!  KARL!  NEW PROJECT! ;-)  Seriously,
I'm not gonna have a sook over it.  The janitors will squash it if it goes
out of control.

>if you or Mr. Fleming would like to take this outside :), I mean continue
in 
>private emails, I am more than welcome to argue with this not wasting hbd
bandwidth, 
>and allow for other people to post, without a huge war.  Like men, instead
of this 
>sneaking around, snide remark bullshit.

I think you could also benefit from anger management.  Apparently you're
looking for someone to argue with and I won't give it to you.  Are you upset
about taking your business trip?  If you wish to "take this outside", you
can send your private e-mail to admin at pannicke.net.  I'll just bounce it.
*I* never did anything sneaky, nor have I made any "snide remark bullshit".
I normally don't slap back in a public forum, but you asked for it.  Think
before you speak.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:54:04 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:  The land of plenty

Chad me old son...

Are you flying the flag in the face of facetiousness or gratitude?

When I see U.S. recipe posts for a pale ale with the following
ingredients:

(This is just hypothetical of course but it happens)

10 lb. DWC Pale Ale   (not avail. here)
2 lb. American Vienna   (not avail. here)
What no crystal? Bit hard with that many varieties!
2 lb. American Munich   (not avail. here)
1 lb. Dextrine malt (Cara-Pils)   (not even this)
1 lb. Honey Gambris Malt   (not avail. here)
0.25 lb. Special B   (not avail. here)
0.25 lb. Aromatic   (not avail. here)
0.25 lb. Biscuit   (not avail. here)
0.25 lb. Victory Malt   (not avail. here)
Car Vienne, Rachmalt, Peated Malt  etc. etc. etc.

Makes for analy retentive brewing dunnit!

And don't even get me started on hops!
(Though we do have Cascade)

YOU GET MY DRIFT EH?

You could count all of our malts on 2 hands...
But I must admit things are slowly improving!

You chaps  have given us McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Burger King
Toys 'R' Us, 7 Eleven, Hardware stores the size of Boeing Factories.
Ah shit!... Did I forget to mention Jerry Springer???

But ya gotta send us those Grocery Stores with the
stainless steel fittings and the magnetically driven brew pumps,
please! please! please!
I'll get my groceries there any day mate!

Apologies! But I got Australia and not available down here mixed up!
(Excuse MY flippancy) I still love making beer!

Cheers! Warren L. White
Melbourne, Australia - Downunder from Heaven
(If jealousy is a curse, then call me cursed!)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 20:56:22 -0400
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: the decoction momily...

Hi all...

Gee..I am a drunk...I'm not a drunk...I am a drunk...how many pedals does
this daisy have?

Wait!!! I mean she loves me...she loves me not...she loves me...which is it
any way???

Now I am really confused! Steve, Pat, help me out here! 

Anyway...

You guys sold me the bill, and I believe it. Decoction mashing makes a big
difference!!! I plan on trying it soon. I think...

But now someone [sorry forget who, but I bookmarked the site] refers us to:

http://www.brewingatdavis.com/decoction.htm

and now I don't know.

Are the claimed results of decoction mashing really a momily?

Seems like at least one person with some credentials thinks so.

Me...well, I am not in a position to lend any experince to the
debate...what debate anyway? No one seems to debate the issue. We accept
the "fact" that decoction makes a difference...

But to quote Prof. Michael J. Lewis. PhD, F.I.Brew:

"The odd fact of the matter is that Decoction Mashing, in and of itself,
makes no detectable difference to beer qualities including flavor. That is
if you compare
decoction beers to those made by any other Temperature-Programmed mashing
technique or indeed by Infusion Mashing. We have done this experiment every
year
for nearly 20 years with succeeding classes of students at U.C. Davis and
never once found statistically significant difference among beers made with
the same raw
materials but with the three main mashing techniques"

Read the entire article referenced above for more details.

Whatdayasay? Momily or Pivoism...or ???

Does Decoction mashing make a real difference? Does my car really run
better after I change the oil? Does Phil's cat really fly better without
it's tail?

Am I destined to become an apprentice Aussie?

Gee...I think this might even be a beer-releted post!!

If so, it was by accident...

sip, sip...gulp, gulp.

Just joking, no gulping here, just sipping, yes sir!!!

What is a SWMBO anyway?

I wonder if I have one...do have a BO...Best Other...just scared about the
SWM part...

Enjoy life!

Should I or shouldn't I...Decoction mash that is...

Bill Macher in Pittsburgh, Pa, USA







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