HOMEBREW Digest #3400 Thu 10 August 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  ProMash in 'stralia (Calvin Perilloux)
  root beer recipe (Fxtrotr2)
  Bleach Disolves Glass?  RIGHT!!!! (Rod Prather)
  rugby ("Keith Menefy")
  Subject: Whirlpooling the answer to Edwards pellet hop woes ("don watts")
  Diabetic beer ("John Pietrzak")
  Noble Hops (pjwilcox)
  False Bottom Design (Richard Foote)
  Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La (Tidmarsh Major)
  Mash manifold idea ("Sweeney, David")
  Bleach is NOT Sodium Hydroxide (Joseph Gibbens)
  Ginger Ale (Nathan Kanous)
  slang (Jim Bermingham)
  Drunks, DUI (Jim Bermingham)
  dissecting the digest (Aaron Perry)
  Bleach / "drunk" flames & netiquette (David Harsh)
  Selling Beer? (Andrew McLaughlin)
  even More "hurl" terms.... (happydog)
  invert/Golden Syrup ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  I am ashamed of myself ("John Palmer")
  Beer spiking samples ("pksmith_morin")
  Vernor's recipe ("Donald D. Lake")
  Another Sooky, Sooky La La ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  The land of plenty ("Warren White")
  the decoction momily... (William Macher)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 20:26:31 -0400 From: Calvin Perilloux <peril at compuserve.com> Subject: ProMash in 'stralia Warren White in the last HBD put in a nice plug for ProMash in Australia. I have to concur. I bought a copy a couple of years ago and have been a happy user ever since. (Actually, my wife bought me a copy for my birthday, the sweet thing, downloaded over Internet, which now might get the GST police on you these days? I dunno.) It's a wonderful piece of software despite the jealous-rage-inducing list of ingredients in its standard inventory that drives people mad if they're out of reach of the homebrew-mall USA brew shops. (That's another story though, that a good brewer can make better beer with a limited ingredient range than a careless one can with a hundred different types of malts and hops.) Best of all, compared to other homebrew packages I compared at the time, ProMash is easily configured to metric units. Thank the Lord, none of those old English/Imperial/American units! No, thank Jeffrey Donovan, who wrote ProMash. He deserves every dollar we paid him, and his support and desire to get fixes and new features out to his users is about the best, most responsive I have seen in PC software. ANd no, I have no connection with him or his company, just a very satisfied user. Highly recommended. Calvin Perilloux Frederick, Maryland (but before that Turrella, Australia, which I maybe never should'a left) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 21:30:04 EDT From: Fxtrotr2 at aol.com Subject: root beer recipe anyone out there have a good mix for making a fermented root beer? also would like to have a mix for duplicating Castlemain Austrailian beer that we can do in our home micro. e-mail if you have anything to fxtrotr2 at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:56:07 +1000 From: "plotek" <plotek at optushome.com.au> Subject: RE Dave Edwards' : Aussie slang Dave, I have had this problem with americans when i first started posting here and on chats etc. We do speak a different language than they. I have read a very old american article on brains being described in terms of left dominant or right. Yet most doctors here refer to us home brewers and pisspots as being "brained". No wonder we dense up as we cross the international date line all i can say is k'noath and keep it up MudGuts Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 01:11:41 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Bleach Disolves Glass? RIGHT!!!! Bleach Dissolves Glass???? Ok. Everyone look inside your washing machine. That gray and white pebble finish on the inside of the tub is ... TADA... vitreous enamel. That's Right, Glass. Any questions???? - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:23:53 +1200 From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> Subject: rugby >The Wallabies got up: The Australian national rugby union team beat New >Zealand in a close game to retain the Bledisloe Cup. The 16th. player helped a wee bit to. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:19:26 -0400 From: "don watts" <dwatts23 at home.com> Subject: Subject: Whirlpooling the answer to Edwards pellet hop woes > A couple of digests back, Edward from WA (thats Western Australia, not > Washington) lamented his stuck boiler drain system following using pellet > hops. He swore never to brew again unless he could get whole hops. That's funny, because I have had the exact opposite results, plug and whole cause my drain to clog. I agree that whirlpooling alleviates the problem. Don Watts Shadetree Brewing Goose Creek, SC Nuclear Fission is nice, but none of the really cosmic breakthroughs can hope to surpass the utility and availability of the white 5-gallon plastic bucket. - J. Taylor Buckley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 21:05:16 +1000 From: "John Pietrzak" <lynel at globalfreeway.com.au> Subject: Diabetic beer Unbelievable! The HBD contains more info than I'll ever need - from weighing farts to speaking Aussie - but not a single mention of Diabetic Beer. If y'all think there is no such thing - think again. Castlemaine Perkins brewers of Queenslands popular XXXX (tastes like cats piss compared to homebrew) also brew a Diabetic Beer. Unfortunately they ain't on the net. Folks up north are a few years behind the rest of the world I think. My brewing technique is as simple as1234. 1. Buy can of Coopers concentrate (preferably Old Dark Ale)- about $10 2. Add water (rain water collected from the roof works great as long as there aint no dead rats or or too many leaves and shit in your gutters) yeast and leave till ready. I never add sugar - I prefer lite beer. Occasionally I add honey or liquorice for flavour. 3. Bottle, cap, leave to mature, and then .......my favourite part:- 4. Drink. Yup! I drink a few 750ml bottles each and every day, that probably gets me into the classification of an alcoholic. But at least I only drink at home and I dont drink/drive. That way I can enjoy the beautiful Bellingen sunsets each afternoon and relax with a nice coldie. Must be time 4 one now. Cheers mates!!! Johnny Redneck Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:22:36 -0400 From: pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com Subject: Noble Hops Rod, Ill take a morning with out coffee after a night with plenty of beer and mead kind of shot at it. (ie, this is from the hip, not the texts'. Noble adj. Of, in, or belonging to the nobility. Superior in nature or character. So who in europe originally owned the beer brewing market? The nobility. Who owned the grain fields? The nobility. Who owned the hop fields? The nobility. Who owned the peasents who harvested the grains and hops? The nobility. You get the picture. The problem with naming things after their owners, is well, Nobles change. But the names of regions don't, or at least not as often. So the best of King Wencleaslaus's hops came from Zatec (Saaz), The best of Austrian/Hungarain empire hops came from Hallertau and Tettnag. The best English hops came from Kent. These have the "Noble-est" of characters. They have a pleasing aroma and a smoother bitterness than other varities. Some People include Fuggles and Slovenian Goldings in this group also. They are the old world hops. Those that were chosen as the best from hundreds of years of trial and error. Not those that were created in hundreds of trials without any error. Like Magnum, Chinook, Crystal and the others. Noble hops typically have low alpha-acid levels and if I remember right, similar Mercene and Cohumolone levels. These are the compounds that are responsible for the aromatics if I remember correctly. Phil Wilcox Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:38:59 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: False Bottom Design Brain Trust, I am looking to revamp my mash/lauter tun. It will be made using a converted keg, which is what I have now. Brewing with fellow club members, I have experienced three different designs-- mine and two others. Designs: Mine- ss false bottom that extends to the total keg diameter and sits about 1 to 1.5 inches up from the keg bottom. Wort exists from the center, bottom via a hole and union welded in the bottom with an elbow to get a 90 degree turn and out the side. Flow is controlled with a ball valve. I estimate hole size of the false bottom at 3/32" and 3/32" on center. Member #1- ss false bottom by Stainless in Seattle. It is about 10 in. in diameter and has a downward curved dip tube in the center to hold down the false bottom. The false bottom sits very close to the bottom of the keg as does the dowward dip tube. Small hole size--3/32" Member #2- ss false bottom made by some company in Tennessee. It has an upward dish that extends about 1 in. up from the keg bottom. Like the S in S design, it also has the same center dip tube and is roughly of the same diameter. It looks like a good, strong design. The hole size seams larger than 3/32". Visual Performance Observations: Mine- Very difficult to clear run off; requires very long recirculation. Halfway through the sparge, there's always a "charge" of husks that comes through. Stuck mash can be a problem at times. Cannot be direct fired due to bottom plumbing. Member #1- Very easy to clear run off: recirculation of 2 qts. and boom, it's clear. Run off stays clear throughout sparge. Scorching via direct firing does not seem to be a problem. Member #2- Very difficult to clear. Never seems to clear and stays cloudy throughout the sparge. Scorching from direct firing seems to be a problem--burnt carbon deposits. My goal is to have a good false bottom design that works well with a motorized mash stirrer and direct heating. I like the performance of the S in S design but am worried that the dip tube might get in the way of my mash stirrer. rather than centered, could the dip tube be off center? How can these observations be interpreted? Does the distance between the false bottom and bottom of the tun have a bearing here on the observed performance? Does the center, bottom outlet of my current design cause the difficult clearing and charge of husks halfway through? Does this same design cause stuck mash via accumulation of husks in the plumbing versus the mash column itself? Why doesn't the center outlet effected by the downward dip tube in the S in S design have the same problems? I like the large surface area of my design, but this is negated by the poor quality run off. Any ideas out there? TIA, Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewery and Home Remodeling Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:12:41 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Re: Another Sooky, Sooky La La >>for >>some reason Doc Pivo sounds like John Cleese in my mind >(when he's being proper or official) > >Nah - wrong accent. Think Max Von Sydow. Funny, I though he sounded more like the Swedish Chef. ;-) Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:40:01 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: Mash manifold idea After two rather dissappointing attempts, I think I have happened upon a good solution for a Sanke Mash tun exit manifold. Several years ago, I was intrigued by C.D. Pritchard's idea of using braided stainless sheathing for a mash exit manifold instead of a false bottom or slotted pipe. (See C.D.'s excellent description of his manifold at http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/rims_inf.htm#manifold ). C.D.'s argument for using the sheathing (which is found covering the supply lines to some of the best toilets in the world <grin>) was that the flow through the sheathing was much greater (because of more "holes") than through a false bottom. Here, I quote from C.D.'s document: "I had a sight gauge attached to the piping between the tun and pump and to the tun just above the old false bottom (now replaced with a manifold) and ran a mash (7# of pale ale malt and a bit of roasted barley) noting the difference in levels (i.e. pressure) between that gauge and the one in the pump suction piping. Most of the loss was in the grain bed- 8" there and another 2" in the false bottom and piping (all 1/2" copper) to the point where the lower sight guage attaches. Almost all of the later loss is in the false bottom/grain bed interface since the flow was only about ~1/2 GPM. A similar mash with the new manifold had only a 1/2" pressure drop in the manifold and piping and a higher flow rate (about 3/4 GPM)." This preliminary experiment seems to support data which indicates up to a 50% better flow rate through the grain bed and a decrease in grain bed pressure (and consequent decreased chance of a stuck mash). In fact, I emailed C.D. who told me that he had never had a stuck mash with his sheathing manifold, which he had tested with 20% wheat, and adjunct. Where do you get the stainless sheathing? Try http://PlumbingSupply.Com/flexes.html The #F2296 at $8.96 for 8' is good. I bought two of these, cut the ends off, and stripped the rubber tube from the inside of the sheathing. These were connected to each other with a 0.5" brass hose splicer (two hose barbs stuck together). My first two versions of the manifold used a single helix coil with an exit at the side of the helix. The "far" end of the sheathing was folded and crimped flat, and then pinched together with a 0.5" piece of soft copper tubing cut longitudinally and mashed flat (like a "V"). The helix was held in place by some 12 gauge stripped solid copper wire which was stuck through the sheathing radially, like the slices of a pizza. The wire holds the coils together. Alas, the bottom of most Sanke kegs is curved, so I quickly found out that too much sweet wort was being left in the bottom of the keg. The solution was to make the sheathing a double double helix, each piece of sheathing making a helix coiled inside the other, with the two exit ends of the sheathing resting on the bottom of the keg for maximum drainage. My kegs have stainess 0.5" (female NPT) couplers welded close to the bottom. As an outlet pipe from the sheathing, I considered copper pipe with soldered fittings, but there is no way to "thread" the soldered manifold into the coupler because there is no room to turn the whole shebang once it's resting on the bottom of the keg. The solution was to use flexible copper supply pipe (0.5") with a flare nut. The flare nut rotates on the supply pipe without requiring that the manifold be turned. (So it's a gas fitting - who cares?) So picture this: on the inside of the keg, there is a female stainless (welded) 0.5" NPT coupler. Inside of this goes a brass (yes, brass - I de-leaded <grin>) 0.5" male NPT to 0.5" male flare. Attached to the 0.5" male flare is a 0.5" brass (yada, yada) flare nut which connects a small length of 0.5" OD flexible copper tubing bent at a gentle 30 degree curve to angle it down to the sheathing. The flare nut attaches the thing nicely to the adapted keg outlet - no turning of the manifold required. Now for the elegant part - how do you connect the copper tubing to the two it hit me (not the megastore; the idea) - why not use a 0.5" compression tee? Even though this gizmo is made for copper tubing, I thought I could use it to gently attach the stainless sheathing. It worked like a charm. So picture this: the un-flared end of the copper tubing (close to the bottom center of the keg) is attached to the 90 degree input of the compression fitting and tightened. The two ends of the stainless sheathing are rolled back on themselves about 0.25" to make a smooth "rolled" edge, and then attached in the two other compression tee ports (the ones that are 180 degrees to each other). The "top" of the tee with the attached sheathing rests horizontally on the bottom of the keg. The compression fitting has small brass (yy) inserts that fit inside the rolled sheathing edges and protects them from being crimped. That's it. I've used it for 3 batches without a hitch. I have a 510 g/h magnetically coupled pump (did I mention that my system is a RIMS?) , and I routinely run it full bore on the mash without any adverse effects or grainbed compaction. My next beer with have an appreciable amount of wheat so we'll see if it works under "stuck-mash-favorable" conditions. I hope to post some pictures of my manifold soon. Stay tuned. David Sweeney Texas A&M University david at studentlife.tamu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:43:27 -0500 From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu> Subject: Bleach is NOT Sodium Hydroxide Bleach is a solution of Sodium Hypochlorite, not Sodium Hydroxide I have also soaked bottles in strong bleach solutions for months at a time with no chemical etching. Question, isn't the stuff we use made of Silica and not Soda? That might explain the controversy. Etching SiO2 requires something REALLY nasty like HF, but I'm not sure about Soda. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:05:59 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Ginger Ale Hi All, I can't resist the recent posts about Ginger Ale and Vernor's. Vernors is probably my favorite soft drink. Mmm good. Earlier this week on FoodTV they did a feature on a soda from Blenheim's bottling. Apparently they've got hot and waayy hot ginger ale. Anybody in the South Carolina area familiar with this? Willing to swap some Wisconsin beer for some ginger ale? Private e-mail is fine. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:05:18 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: slang Howdy Yall, Looks like th' Fellas fum "Down Unner" has done started a thang wif their slang. Now, even th' Good Dr. has let his hair down an' is usin' words suchas "in'usty", " I reckon" and "cuz". Shucks, I don't thank them thar words are proper inglish and im'a fixin to check um out ifin' I cand find th' books thats got all them thar corect words. Ah believe it was jest last summer when th' Yankees started makin' fun of th' way us Good Old Fellas fum th' South talk. Shet mah mouth! No one did no complainn' back thn', most thought it was right funny makin' fun of us'ns' from "DIXIE". Don't know fer sur' why th' fellers wiffn' th' funny soundin' talk makes so many A'merkins mad. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:10:11 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Drunks, DUI Howdy Again, Now it seems as though some varmints don't be hankerin t'let a daid houn'dog lay. They jest keep on gittin cornfused about gettin' drunk an' spewin' their cookies, an' bein a "drunk". Ah dast say most of us haf been drunk a few times in our lives. Some mo'e than others an' some a lot mo'e. Thet does not in itse'f make yo' a drunk. Ah don't care thet yo' won some award in high skoo o' at "The University" on account o' yo' c'd drink a six pack mo'e or fastr' than ennyone else o' yo' had th' ability t'blow it out yer nose into a glass an' git th' puffict haid o' foam. Dawgone it, this hyar still don't make yo' a drunk. Effi'n yer hankerin t'see a "DRUNK", hoof it downtown in enny medium t'large size US city an' look aroun'. These varmints thet yo' haf been avoidin' eye corntack wif an' pretendin' were not really thar' askin' fo' a hand out so they c'd buy some mo'e booz is drunks. Now eff'n yo' recon thet yo' fit into this hyar catego'y an' wish t'be called a drunk, its up t'yo', ah don't wish t'be called one. (Disclaimer) Not all th' homeless yo' see on th' streets is drunks. Now ah hope thet eff'n yo' does git drunk yo' lets someone who isn' drunk do th' driv'n fer yer. Let me tell yo it's no fun t'kill someone. In my yo'nger days Uncle Sam put me in a jungle in South East Asia an tol'd me mah job was t'kill. Ah recon ah did my job mighty fine an' Dave, I too received awards, asa ah said ah did mah job mighty fine. Gentlemen, let me tell yo', when you kill someone it ain't much fun. Ah can not imagine bein' responsible fo' killin' some innecent Pappy, Mammy, o' Child on account o' ah was drivin' while undr' der' influnce of some squezins or some brew. But I fo'git...... most of yo' complainin' about DUI laws'd nevah haf an accident in an autymobile eff'n yo' were duunk. In fack yo' hat' probably cornvinced yo'seff thet yo' drive better when yo' had a six pack o' so. I have one request t'ax, eff'n yer drivin' drunk in mah neck o' th' woods, let me know so's ah can stay home and git a buz on drinin' mah homebrew and play with Maw. S'pose t'be 99 Degrees Saturday instead of the 100 degrees + its'a been fer th' past month. Fall brewing season in just around the corner. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:32:28 -0400 From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> Subject: dissecting the digest Hi all, First let me state my opinion: I like reading Everyone's posts. I'm not seeing the point of all this sook and continentism (just made that up see def. below: continentism (con-tin-ent-izim) n. 1. The belief that ones continent accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular continent is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on continent. continentist adj. & n.) Any way, I say good for Oz and Pat and Steve etc,etc,etc. I love hearing all the differing viewpoints, cultural nuances and of course differences in brewing techniques and theories. As for dissection..... I had some spare time, so I decided to dissect the last digest. Here's the break down: Original digest- 44k Digest minus Oz posts- 39k Digest minus drunk posts- 31k Digest minus both Oz and Drunks- 26k These numbers are approximate as its possible some little phrases were buried in a post and missed. The point is, I got most of it. So bend the numbers to back up your own opinions. as for mine: 26k........26k......dosn't look full to me, hell! even with all the fun stuff we didn't fill it up!! And even if we did SO WHAT. I've got a Barleywine to rack and a mead to keg, Plenty to keep me busy till the next digest, even if my post gets bumped!. That's my 4k. And my mom wastes her time on the soaps!! Hope this helps AP PS: I'd like to thank Graham,Steve,Glen,Jeff, hell! thanks to the very,very long list of people all over the world who have answered questions I've had throughout my stay on the HBD. I brew better beer and I've got an insight into other cultures, including those of my own country. I wouldn't have had this without the HBD! Mostly thanks to Pat and Karl for keeping it all together! Keep it up! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:43:12 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Bleach / "drunk" flames & netiquette Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> writes: > Pure Bleach is essentially a 5% solution of caustic soda ( lye, sodium > hydroxide) Actually, it is sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl, not NaOH, which is sodium hydroxide. But then, you may have a different definition of the word "is"... Clorox<tm> describes itself as a 5.25% solution of NaOCl NaOH DOES etch glass; I don't know if bleach does, it certainly doesn't at the levels I used before I switched to iodophor. - ------------------------------ "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> blathers: >...nettiquette of digest.... >....(much drivel mercifully deleted).... Try some decaf, huh? With a clue or sugar? Maybe you should go to hbd.org and read the policies on moderation. In particular, parts 5-A and 5-B. No beer related topic is censored. In one case, two daily digest contributors agreed to take their "is not - is too" argument offline with regard to testing for sugars in wort. And by the way, thanks for the extremely useful subject line of your post. Pat has a right to contribute and I frankly don't care if inserted himself in the queue a little sooner. Call it the only payment he got for his efforts. If you think he was lax wrt spam, maybe Karl should let it all through for the next week or so and see how things go. I hope Pat reconsiders leaving the digest. I note that he is no longer listed as a janitor on duty. Dave Harsh Cincinnati, OH Bloatarian Brewing League Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:15:25 -0700 From: Andrew McLaughlin <amclaughlin at ebuilt.com> Subject: Selling Beer? Does anyone know the remifications of selling beer? What are the limits before I need a license? What does a license cost? What other issues are there? I've made two batches so far and both have been getting rave reviews. However, one up-scale Liquor Store owner wants to begin selling my beer in their shop. And another wants to sell in their restaurant! :D Andrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:11:20 GMT From: happydog at nations.net Subject: even More "hurl" terms.... >And don't forget two of my favorites, "screamin at the pebbles" and >"hollering at the hubcaps"...... I like the term "making pavement pizza" myself Wil Kolb Happy Dog Brewing Supplies 401 W.Coleman Blvd Mt Pleasant SC 29464 843-971-0805 Fax 843-971-3084 1-800-528-9391 happydog at nations.net www.maltydog.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:43:05 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: invert/Golden Syrup In Canada, Rogers Golden Syrup is pure cane sugar (the only one I know of that isn't mixed with corn sugar or sorbate or other additives). Use it to replace Caramel sugar in British Ale recipes. It has about a 33 pt value. cheers, Stephen Ross ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:08:39 -0700 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: I am ashamed of myself This is one of those trials of life where you realize that you stood by and let a friend get crucified because of his honest, respectable, socially conscious beliefs. I share those beliefs, I wrote and told him so, but I did not wade into the digest discussion, because I took a cynical view that I couldn't change anyone and thought it would die down soon. Well, now Pat has been thoroughly tarred and feathered by respected members of the digest, who apparently hold equally strong views for the right to inebriate. (Hey, that's not what I said! you say) Well, that wasn't what Pat said either. His original premise was something like, Don't paint us with a broad brush as people is search of alcohol, most of us do this for the taste and the creative process. And, because of the inherent problems of the quickly written word, and the lack of tonality and facial expression, harsh words have been read and responded to. I got into the same situation years ago on rec.crafts.brewing for criticizing a college student who wanted to put marijuana in his beer so he could get really f*cked up. I couldn't believe the negative feedback I received! I thought about it and decided I didnt have the right to criticize him, I had the RESPONSABILITY. Response-ability. The experience to be able to respond, to advise him that he was heading down a road that could flunk him out of school, as it happened to my friends, and nearly happened to me. So, if Pat takes the time to voice an opinion, that the goal of homebrewing is not the pursuit soley of inebriation, and cautions everyone to avoid letting that stereotype continue, because here in the United States we are still struggling to throw off the chains of Prohibition and still pursueing the legality of home brewing in several states, and you don't wholeheartedly agree with that, then take it offline! God! Am I a hypocrite or what! John Palmer jjpalmer at realbeer.com Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ How To Brew - the book http://www.howtobrew.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:31:40 -0500 From: "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin at email.msn.com> Subject: Beer spiking samples Hello all -- Anyone know of a cheap source of beer spiking samples (acetaldehyde, diacetyl, dms, etc.) and pure strains of pedio- and lacto-? I am interested in framing a sensory evaluation panel, and once read of such a company in one of the trades, but have since lost track. Any help would be appreciated. Paul Smith Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:24:39 -0400 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net> Subject: Vernor's recipe I also would be interested in a recipe for Vernor's. I did find, however, a very cool website on soft drinks and their history. There is a section on the history of Vernor's, as well as CocaCola, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, etc and recipes for some as well. http://www.sodafountain.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:03:07 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Another Sooky, Sooky La La Leland decided to have a rant on what he apparently mistook for a sook on the OT thread: >Ok...Here we go...Now you say "...but off topic discussions suck for those >who want to read about beer." What in Zeus's butthole prevents beer topics >to get into hbd. <snip> But if people wanted to post about beer, then >f*king posts about beer. I usually steer clear of e-wars and such, but I have to respond to this in a public forum since Leland's post might give one the impression that I'm ganging up on our brothers Down Under. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm happy to share the HBD and I don't mind an occasional OT post when the thread has turned away from brewing - no matter where it comes from. Leland, you need to take a course in reading comprehension. Go back and read my post again... carefully. Read out loud if it helps. You'll see that I'm implying that the Australians are more tolerant of OT posts than Americans. Also, the percieved intolerance by the Americans may be exacerbated by their ignorance of an Austrailian topic to which they cannot relate. Our Australian brethren seem to be more laid back. I am making a generalized critique of American tolerance - and I'm an American. So don't go off on me for that. >If we didn't have off-topic posts, then the hbd would fail, because only a >select number of people would read only off-topic. What do think makes the hbd >so popular? Let me answer the question, with a question: Based simply on the title, what does "Home Brew Digest" imply to you? <dripping with sarcasm> Take your time... Homebrewing! Right. Therefore, by deductive reasoning, off-topic (OT) posts would have nothing to do with homebrewing. So if, as you claim, "there are a select number of people who would read only off-topic posts" maybe they should start their own digest. Call it the non-Home Brew Digest or "nHBD". If an OT thread persists for too long on the HBD, it can be moved there. PAT! KARL! NEW PROJECT! ;-) Seriously, I'm not gonna have a sook over it. The janitors will squash it if it goes out of control. >if you or Mr. Fleming would like to take this outside :), I mean continue in >private emails, I am more than welcome to argue with this not wasting hbd bandwidth, >and allow for other people to post, without a huge war. Like men, instead of this >sneaking around, snide remark bullshit. I think you could also benefit from anger management. Apparently you're looking for someone to argue with and I won't give it to you. Are you upset about taking your business trip? If you wish to "take this outside", you can send your private e-mail to admin at pannicke.net. I'll just bounce it. *I* never did anything sneaky, nor have I made any "snide remark bullshit". I normally don't slap back in a public forum, but you asked for it. Think before you speak. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:54:04 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: The land of plenty Chad me old son... Are you flying the flag in the face of facetiousness or gratitude? When I see U.S. recipe posts for a pale ale with the following ingredients: (This is just hypothetical of course but it happens) 10 lb. DWC Pale Ale (not avail. here) 2 lb. American Vienna (not avail. here) What no crystal? Bit hard with that many varieties! 2 lb. American Munich (not avail. here) 1 lb. Dextrine malt (Cara-Pils) (not even this) 1 lb. Honey Gambris Malt (not avail. here) 0.25 lb. Special B (not avail. here) 0.25 lb. Aromatic (not avail. here) 0.25 lb. Biscuit (not avail. here) 0.25 lb. Victory Malt (not avail. here) Car Vienne, Rachmalt, Peated Malt etc. etc. etc. Makes for analy retentive brewing dunnit! And don't even get me started on hops! (Though we do have Cascade) YOU GET MY DRIFT EH? You could count all of our malts on 2 hands... But I must admit things are slowly improving! You chaps have given us McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Burger King Toys 'R' Us, 7 Eleven, Hardware stores the size of Boeing Factories. Ah shit!... Did I forget to mention Jerry Springer??? But ya gotta send us those Grocery Stores with the stainless steel fittings and the magnetically driven brew pumps, please! please! please! I'll get my groceries there any day mate! Apologies! But I got Australia and not available down here mixed up! (Excuse MY flippancy) I still love making beer! Cheers! Warren L. White Melbourne, Australia - Downunder from Heaven (If jealousy is a curse, then call me cursed!) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 20:56:22 -0400 From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: the decoction momily... Hi all... Gee..I am a drunk...I'm not a drunk...I am a drunk...how many pedals does this daisy have? Wait!!! I mean she loves me...she loves me not...she loves me...which is it any way??? Now I am really confused! Steve, Pat, help me out here! Anyway... You guys sold me the bill, and I believe it. Decoction mashing makes a big difference!!! I plan on trying it soon. I think... But now someone [sorry forget who, but I bookmarked the site] refers us to: http://www.brewingatdavis.com/decoction.htm and now I don't know. Are the claimed results of decoction mashing really a momily? Seems like at least one person with some credentials thinks so. Me...well, I am not in a position to lend any experince to the debate...what debate anyway? No one seems to debate the issue. We accept the "fact" that decoction makes a difference... But to quote Prof. Michael J. Lewis. PhD, F.I.Brew: "The odd fact of the matter is that Decoction Mashing, in and of itself, makes no detectable difference to beer qualities including flavor. That is if you compare decoction beers to those made by any other Temperature-Programmed mashing technique or indeed by Infusion Mashing. We have done this experiment every year for nearly 20 years with succeeding classes of students at U.C. Davis and never once found statistically significant difference among beers made with the same raw materials but with the three main mashing techniques" Read the entire article referenced above for more details. Whatdayasay? Momily or Pivoism...or ??? Does Decoction mashing make a real difference? Does my car really run better after I change the oil? Does Phil's cat really fly better without it's tail? Am I destined to become an apprentice Aussie? Gee...I think this might even be a beer-releted post!! If so, it was by accident... sip, sip...gulp, gulp. Just joking, no gulping here, just sipping, yes sir!!! What is a SWMBO anyway? I wonder if I have one...do have a BO...Best Other...just scared about the SWM part... Enjoy life! Should I or shouldn't I...Decoction mash that is... Bill Macher in Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Return to table of contents
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