---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Freezing yeast (J Daoust)
  Who creates laws anyway? (John_E_Schnupp)
  Thanks RE Ayinger, Belgiain ales ("Grant Stott")
  Coopers Concentrate ("John Pietrzak")
  Stirring the pot, Etching glass (E.J.)" <eahrendt at visteon.com>
  scorch, etched glass, Bing Cherries, Religious Left (Dave Burley)
  Secondary in Corny Keg.... ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  Wyeast pitchable (Keith Busby)
  A few things ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Ponging in Geelong ("Dr. Pivo")
  The Religious Right (Epic8383)
  "Dead bacteria walking" ("Alan Meeker")
  Hop Additions (William Frazier)
  OFF-TOPIC POST:the origin of SWMBO (Jim Adwell)
  Re:Selling Beer (Project One)
  Neo-prohibitionism (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
  Cleaning Scorched Brewpots / Comment on Off Topic posts ("John Palmer")
  Brussels/Koln/Dusseldorf/London ("FatCat")
  CO2 Calculations ("FatCat")
  RE : False bottom design (Paul Shick)
  Bleach (pjwilcox)
  First time all grain brewer has a pH question ("Paul McLaughlin")
  Targets (pjwilcox)
  Giving it away ("Paul Mahoney")
  good mail order stores? (Rama Roberts)
  Grain extraction ratings (Steve Lacey)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:39:00 -0700
From: J Daoust <dowquest1 at home.com>
Subject: Freezing yeast

What do you have to do to yeast before you can successfully freeze it?
And of course, thaw, repitch into a starter, and use.
Thanks, Jerry Daoust


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:23:17 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: Who creates laws anyway?

>and Bill Babbles:
>>It seems everyone making
>>our laws today is a member of some religious group, and all are
>>making moves on our freedoms, from the continual and still ongoing
>>onslaught against tobacco, to backing down the legal DUI blood alcohol
>>to .08 througout the US, using highway tax dollars, etc.  (Check the
>>current stories on RealBeer.com) I don't care to have my laws made
>>based on somebody else's religious beliefs.

WELL, here's one solution: If you don't vote, don't bitch.

If you were elected, wouldn't the laws you create be based on your
"beliefs"?  And wouldn't you have gotten elected in the first place
because you got enough people who had similar "beliefs" to vote for
you?

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:39:34 +1000
From: "Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: Thanks RE Ayinger, Belgiain ales

Many thanks to all those who replied both via this forum & privately to my
questions.

Ayinger whilst reportedly giving great results must also be one tough yeast,
half waiting for me to return from holiday, Then sitting re-hydrated in the
fridge for 3 weeks while I try to find time to schedule a brew.
(contamination could be a remote possibility under these circumstances)
I transferred to 2ndary on the weekend - all is well according to sensory
evaluation, & lagering has begun.

Regarding Belgian ales, Special B seems to be the go if you live anywhere
other than this continent. Warren White gave some good sounding advice on
how to compensate by oven toasting some dark crystal. I'll try this next
time & use Abbey II instead of 3787.

Grant Stott
Geelong Vic.
 Australia
Happiness is a full fermenter  going
Blup.......blup.......blup......blup........blup.......blup......



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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 18:38:32 +1000
From: "John Pietrzak" <lynel at globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Coopers Concentrate

I just loves the HBD. It's funnier than the daily comics and more
informative than  the nightly news.
Many thanks to Stephen Alexander & George Matsuo for their very helpful
advice on diabetic beer.
In issue #3401 Graham Sanders wrote.............
"But yeh, us country bumbkins are soooo behind those more advanced gods that
live south of the
border.  The funny thing is, the further south you go the more advanced they
seem to be. (and as they become more godlike, the less they can find fault
in themselves.)   Ah - Ignorance is bliss"

Quite frankly I'm flattered - I've never thought of myself as advanced -
godlike or faultless.
But thanks for the compliments anyway mate.  And if you find bliss in
ignorance - well that's your business. You probably think hittin your thumb
with a hammer is exciting too!!
Folks in Queensland is kinda strange - doncha think?

I brew from a can of Coopers concentrate because I like the  taste of it,
and I couldn't be bothered trying to copy the taste or improve on it.  I'm
also kind of lazy as well.  I only have 15 years brewing experience  -
whereas the Coopers family have been doin it fer generations.  They pack
their experience into a can with pride and I'm more than happy to pay for
their expertise.  It means that I also don't have to buy a whole bunch of
equipment, heck - I don't even use a spoon to mix my brew.  And I don't need
a shit load of additives and chemicals.  And I get more time to do other
things I enjoy- like gardening and spending quality time with family and
friends.

Enuff said

Cheers and na zdrowie!!
Johnny Redneck









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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 07:48:45 -0400
From: "Ahrendt, Eric (E.J.)" <eahrendt at visteon.com>
Subject: Stirring the pot, Etching glass

NOT wanting the stir the pot, but - 

Went to the local distributor Saturday to see what was in the breakers pile
(Does trying to get the best price on quality beverages make me a drunk?)
Got Anchor Steam and Porter for $10/case and Crooked River (Cleveland) for
$8/case. But the disturbing thing occurred at the checkout. There's a sign
posted referring to Ohio's new "5 for 5" rule.  Apparently Ohio views kegs
of beer as being as lethal as hand guns. If you want to purchase 5 or more
kegs, you need to fill out the appropriate papers and wait 5 days before you
can buy the beer!

IMO another example of just how clueless government can be. This particular
distributor pointed out he had just lost a 25 keg sale to a respected local
business man who was hosting an employee party. The businessman was unaware
of the new law (as was I.) However, this law is easily circumvented by the
crowd it's targeted at. I mean, if you and your college buddies are going to
have a 25 kegger, you're gonna find 6 guys over 21 to go to the distributor
and buy 4 kegs apiece. Silly.

- ---

On the subject of glass etching (intentional.) There's a kit sold in the
hobby/craft arena that includes a cream that etches/frosts glass. Must be
nasty stuff. The kits include plastic masks in the shape of flowers,
letters, etc. The intended use is for customizing wine glasses, beer mugs,
mirrors. I once received an unsolicited catalogue that was nothing but glass
etching but I threw it away. I think any well stocked craft store should
have something. I also think that at least one of my woodworking catalogs
carry it if somebody's interested. 

Eric Ahrendt
"Brew as if you will die tomorrow.
 Brew as if you will live for 1000 years."
Sandusky, OH


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:26:43 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: scorch, etched glass, Bing Cherries, Religious Left

Brewsters:

Bill scorched his brewpot since he had his false botttom in his boiler
(WHY?) and this area gave him a hand-sized carbonized area.  Bill, perhaps
a soak in good old lye ( supermarket or hardware store)  solution ( about 2
TLB per cup)  overnight would do it. I would warm this solution after
putting it in the pot. For a lesser burn you could try warming the pot and
spraying it with Oven Off ( R).

I believe sodium hydroxide isn't the best for stainless steel as it
dissolves some of the oxides which make it stainless, but it may be as
simple as scrubbing the surface of the SS with scouring powder to remove
this molecular  layer. Or do nothing.  Maybe John Palmer could comment on
how to rejuvenate maybe by a quick hydrochloric acid  ( muriatic acid from
pool or hardware store)  rinse or something. I have used this method
successsfully when removing brown/black stuff from SS cooking pots but
thankfully never from my boilers.

As always, use rubber gloves and safety glasses.

BTW the acetic acid from vinegar reacts with baking soda to give water and
carbon cioxide. Showy but signifying nothing in the world of cleaning
carbonized sugars. 
- ---------------------------------
Hydrofluoric acid is used to etch glass, but it is very nasty stuff and I
wouldn't go there without a lot  of chemical experience. There are kits at
hobby shops which are sold to etch glass.
- ----------------------------------
Jim,  Although it may be too late if you have already added the Bing
Cherrries, you should take the cherries, crush a sample and measure the
specific gravity of the juice to give you an idea of how much sugar is in
there.
- ----------------------------------
As far as drinking laws go, I haven't heard anyone suggesting we have a law
to prohibit drinking for mature adults,  just a law to prohibit drunks from
killing themselves and others while driving. I agree with this whole
heartedly. Lowering the blood alcohol level will do little to accomplish
any more than was being carried out already, but it looks good politically
without really having any affect on your personal freedom. You shouldn't be
driving and drinking, anyway.

There is a problem which I find extant among liberals ( and I suppose
conservatives)  and that is the use of such tactics as a power move to
control, purely for control's sake. Perhaps it is this aspect of laws and
lawyering which has so agitated the corresondent. Or maybe the blame is
being heaped upon Republicans for what the Democrats are doing? Or vice
versa? Or both? 

 Remember, it is the Repubicans - { which has a small but noisy ( to the
delight of the media) far "religious" right component } -  who promote
individual freedoms, not socialist behavior as do the noisy but not so
categorized Religious Far Left. Remember Nixon's approach? "When you have
them by the balls ( or bollocks)  their hearts and minds will follow"
Clinton tried a different approach. Got them both in trouble.

And whatever happened to the Religious Left? Is there one? I mean logic
demands such a component or is this RR thing a figment of media imagination
and a way for liberals, like Nazis, to use fear tactics to gain control?
Seems to be working, at least on some people.

I am all for personally responsible drinking, shooting and in the Bostonian
definition - spewing.
- ------------------------------------------

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:19:45 -0400
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com>
Subject: Secondary in Corny Keg....

I racked a pale ale from a primary fermentation in glass carboys to a
secondary in corny kegs. I brew ten gallon batches and am using to 5 gallon
kegs. I dry hopped with whole leaf hops directly into the keg (no bag) and
attached SS scrubbies on the end of the dip tube to avoid hops being drawn
into it. I didn't put any kind of airlock on the kegs as I figure I can
occasionally release the pressure and since it's a secondary the pressure
shouldn't build up to quickly. This morning I went  to release the pressure
and the first keg let off a nice controlled pfffffffffff. The second keg
nothing. So I figure that second keg just didn't seal up properly.

Finally for my questions. Number one, I figure there should still be enough
positive pressure in that keg as to not worry about any nasties getting in.
Yes or no? Secondly, In order to get a good seal I could just apply a blast
of CO2. Will this cause any problems with the continued fermentation? Any
other suggestions?

Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA
Home of the "Award Winning" Yellow Breeches Brewery





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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:29:17 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Wyeast pitchable

I brewed an American Pale (5 1/2  gals. of OG 1.048) on Saturday, pitched
one of the new tubes of Wyeast 1056 at 2pm, having oxygenated 20 seconds.
By 5pm Sunday it was still completely inactive. Gave it another 10 second
burst of oxygen and a 1/2 teaspoon of Fermax. 9am  Monday morning, still
nothing. Should I have made a starter? The instructions says this is not
necessary. Has anyone had problems with the tubes?

Keith Busby


Professor of French
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706

(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:20:31 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: A few things

While discussing complexity of malt bills Brian said:

>I would take this one step further and say that I think crystal (or
caramel)
>malts or overused, ar at least, used unnecessarily. While they are a boon
>for extract brewers, I feel that their use in all-grain brewing is
sometimes
>a bit of a cheat. Not always, mind you, I don't want to make sweeping
>generalizations.

I've noticed this general sentiment hidden in a number of previous posts.
One thing I've been doing to just about every batch is adding a small
portion of carapils or carafoam to the bill to aid in creating a head on the
beer.  I'd like to achieve the same effects without adding this charge.
Guess I still have to fiddle with my mash schedules - cause I aint' gonna
add that GM yeast to me beer (another sore subject ;-)

As for the Neo-prohibition thread:

We tried this once before and look what happened.  I don't care even if it
does happen again.  Too bad for those who don't know how to brew their own.
I'm just glad I know how to culture yeast and brew my own beer, wine, mead,
cider and sake.  They'd have to take all the barley, corn, rice, honey,
apples, grapes, etc... off the market.  Hell, I can still grown my own, so
they'd just have to shoot me!   "That's all I've got to say about that." -
ala Forrest Gump








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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:50:10 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Ponging in Geelong

Grant Stott has discovered the smell of a dead wombat in his
pillowcase... in short a sulphur producing yeast.

As Richard Pass said: "It'll pass"... (or was it: "It'll richard"?)

I do have a few other comments to make on this.

1) Any thing that has to do with your beer getting "old" is some form of
oxidation. As I have incessantly nagged earlier, there is an endless
amount of keyboard hammering here about a phenomenon called HSA, which
I think is a teeny-tiny gnat toot in the face of reality.  There are a
large number of other ways for your beer to get prematurely old,
however, and in the face of it, probably the most important anti-oxidant
in the beer is the sulphur level.... So having a real sulphur spitter
might be a good thing for extending the life of your beer.

2) A hydrogen sulphide smell CAN well be the indication of something
called "yeast stress", where you have ordered too big a job from the
yeast without supplying them with enough building material.

There seem to be many who consider beer making to be some form of yeast
propagating, and define optimal beer making conditions as optimal yeast
growing conditions.... I'm not one of those, so whether or not your
yeast should or should not be getting stressed has for me no "pre-set" answer.

I do have a suggestion about how to find out.

If you have an unoccupied fermenter, I would suggest the next time you
pitch this baby that you "drop" some.

Most ferments show some sort of action (tiny "cotton balls" of foam
appearing on the surface) the first day. 24 hours after that point (I'm
not just making this number up, but I'd have to "number two" all over
you to justify it) rack off half of your ferment.

When you do this racking, make sure there is a good height differential,
so there is a lot of splashing (as opposed to a normal, careful rack).
Also try and move the feeding cane end all over your first fermenter so
you are getting wort and yeast from "everywhere" (A better way to do
this would be to start with 2 fermenters equally pitched, and then
"drop" one the next day.... but that would mean you'd need to have
three fermenters).

What you will end up with is your original, plus one that was given a
burst of oxygen at a critical growth period, which was likely the
element lacking that caused the stress.

If you keep these separate through to kegging or bottling, and then
taste them side by side at different time periods, you will find out if
the fumes of a man tied down and force fed a strict diet of hard boiled
eggs, cabbage, and prunes, is something you want with that yeast strain,
and at what point it will make a difference either way.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:04:29 EDT
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: The Religious Right

     Guys,
    It wasn't the Right that worked to sue tobacco, it was the Left. The 
Right believes that Congress makes the laws, The Left seems to believe that 
if you can't get your way in Congress, sue the shit out of the industry. By 
the way, when industry gets sued like that, only the trial lawyers win-guess 
who they support?
     Gus Rappold


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:03:56 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: "Dead bacteria walking"

Jesse wrote:
- ----------------------
> The pediococcus you DON'T want in your brew system. I think Wyeast's may
be
> a different strain, but some Pedio can survive autoclaving!

Do you have a reference for that?  To the best of my knowledge,
there are no bacteria or bacterial forms (spores, etc.) that can survive a
properly functioning autoclave (20-30 minutes at 121 degrees C and 15
atmospheres of pressure).
- ------------------------

Jesse, I posted the very same question about a year ago when this thread
first reared it's questionable head. I researched it pretty extensively and
came up empty handed - I couldn't find a single reference in the literature
showing any evidence for any organism surviving such conditions. In fact,
all sources indicated just the opposite that, as you guessed, there don't
appear to be any life forms that can survive a _properly functioning_
autoclave, not even bacterial endospores. I stress proper functioning here
because the few anecdotal stories I did hear about contamination following
autoclaving turned out to be due to either autoclave malfunction or operator
error.

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD




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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:24:40 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Hop Additions

Here's a pretty good question from Courtney Tyvand that I noticed on Tech Talk;

"I was just reviewing some recipes and began to wonder about the changes I
have made when I use hops with a different Alpha Acid % than what is stated
in the recipe.  Now that I think about it, it seems that when making flavor
and aroma hop additions that the quantity of hop added could be more
important than matching AA% (this would surely be more true for the aroma
additions).  In the past, if I used a hop with a different AA% than what was
stated in the recipe I would adjust the quantity up or down to maintain
equivalent AA%.  While the later additions still can contribute some
bitterness the intent is to extract other qualities from the hops that I
don't think are related entirely to AA%. So does it make sense to use AA% to
make adjustments to late hop additions?"

I brew mostly pils and CAPs now days.  I use mainly Saaz and Hallertau
Hersbrucker hops.  I FWH, make additions for 60 and 45 minutes boils and
make an addition at 20 minutes for flavor.  The beers are good tasting if I
can resist drinking them before they have had a chance to lager for a month
or two.  If drunk sooner they are not nearly as good.  While these hops are
usually low AA they do vary and I use IBU calculations to determine the
weight of hops to add at each addition.

What do others do?  What weight hop addition are others using for flavor?

I've noticed that if I add hops near then end-of-boil I get a harshness in
flavor that takes quite some time to mellow out.  I never would consider
dry-hopping a pils or CAP.  Do others notice this "hop-bite" associated with
very late additions (so-called aroma additions)?

Note that I'm striving for an assertive hop bitterness, yet at the same time
no harshness.  I find the two hops mentioned above are the best to use to
achieve this type bitterness.  What other hops are others using in these
type beers?

On another note, while some argue over less important matters, Jackie Rager
(of IBU calculation fame) has just undergone bypass surgery.  AFAIK he's
doning OK.  I buy some of my brewing supplies at his store, Bacchaus &
Barleycorn in Shawnee Kansas.  Any of you that know Jackie might drop him an
email.  He's a nice guy and great brewer.

        Bill Frazier
        Olathe, Kansas







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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:52:04 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: OFF-TOPIC POST:the origin of SWMBO

As Jonathan Westphal noted, the phrase "She-who-must-be-obeyed" is from
H.Rider Haggard's novel "She".  Delving further into this, we find:

One possible source of inspiration for the character of
She-who-must-be-obeyed is the striking real-life parallel of a small tribe
called the Lovedu in the Transvaal, whose ruler in 1880 (when Haggard was
secretary to the Lieutenant Governor of Natal in South Africa) was "a very
light-skinned woman reputed to have great magical powers, who lived in
seclusion & was served only by mute servants."  The phrase itself seems to
have come from Haggard's childhood; in his biography, he speaks of a
particularly hideous rag doll hidden in a closet, which he called
She-who-must-be-obeyed, with which a nursemaid used to threaten him when he
was a very small boy.

Freely plagiarized (excuse me, 'researched') from:

http://www.violetbooks.com/don-wollheim.html

I leave you with a quote from the above source:

"Perhaps it was from that almost forgotten memory of his childhood that he
dredged the phrase when he was writing She in a heat of inspiration that
took only six weeks from start to finish. But this is too simple, for
Ayesha, the She of the novel, is no hideous & frightening creature; rather,
she is a marvel of matchless beauty, a thing of untold powers, immortal, &
not to be touched.
    One could delve into psychology & come up with an obvious answer. Who
is the "she who must be obeyed" in the life of every small child? Why, it
is the image of the mother. Is not one's mother always supremely beautiful
to the eyes of the babe?
    And is she surely not always immortal, always present, & is she not
also all powerful, the source of witchery, & is she not one that must be
obeyed?"

Cheers and beers, Jim

"I want a girl, just like the girl, that married dear old Dad" - old song


Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:51:16 -0800
From: Project One <project1 at pond.net>
Subject: Re:Selling Beer

My understanding is that here in Oregon, you can't even legally give your 
beer away outside of your house.  Meaning that if your friends want to come 
over to your house & drink your brew it's OK, but you can't take it to 
their house & give it to them.  Of course, IANAL, so I could be wrong...

                 -------->Denny

At 12:26 AM 8/14/00 -0400, you wrote:


>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:35:38 -0400
>From: "Mark P." <dolt at bellatlantic.net>
>Subject: Selling Beer
>
>Well...selling your beer is strictly forbidden. But...you can GIVE it
>away....and accept donations.




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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:28:23 GMT
From: mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
Subject: Neo-prohibitionism

Left versus Right? You're ALL wrong.  The recent spate of lawsuits
against Big Tobacco and the coming lawsuits against Big Alcohol are
NOT about a left wing urge to protect us from ourselves. Nor are they
about the right's attempt to legislate morality. 

They ARE primarily about enriching certain attorneys -- although these
types of lawsuits also tend to play conveniently to a pervasive
Puritan strain of thought that spans the political spectrum in this
country. These suits will ultimately not end in the demise of Big
Alcohol, Big Tobacco or Big Porn (my guess to be next on the hit list
after Big Alcohol). Ultimately, all of this will end with draconian
tort reform that eliminates or dramatically reduces class action and
other tort awards. The losers in all of this will as usual be the
little guys, who will lose the tort arena altogether as a means of
legitimate recompense for real wrongs perpetrated by powerful
institutions.


**************************************
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:39:37 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Cleaning Scorched Brewpots / Comment on Off Topic posts

Bill asks how to clean off his badly scorched stainless steel brewpot.
I am surprised PBW didnt work better, but here is what will work.
Easy-Off Oven Cleaner.
Follow the directions and rinse thoroughly. Your future batches will
never know there was a past problem.
Oh. and take the false bottom out. In my boiling pot, I just have a
short length of copper pipe with slots cut in it that runs along the
side of the pot. Thus when I whirlpool, the trub is in the center and
the wort drains quite well... And if it does get stuck, it is easy to
stir around the tube to clear it of hops and such.

**
I have said it before, although not very clearly.
It is difficult to discuss emotional issues over email. Body language
is lost, words meant as hyperbole and partially in jest are taken at
full strength. As a general rule, members of this digest do not
discuss off-topics because it leads to loss of bandwidth. Occasionally
we stray. Everyone knows that you don't discuss religion and politics
at dinner. Right?

To clarify my prohibition-related post: I said >we are still
struggling to throw off the chains of Prohibition and still pursueing
the legality of home brewing in several states<
What I meant was: the remnant effects of prohibition ie. the
restrictions on beer labeling and % alcohol, the loss of some beer
styles, the restrictions on homebrewing in some states.

While there is an existant remnant philosophy that Drinking is Bad,
(and I can just envision the ensuing volumous discussion if I embark
on the topic) I am not going to comment on it. And I hope that
everyone else doesn't poke that dog with a stick either.
I don't mind OT Comments in general, they add color. Little bit of
sports, little bit of nationalism, little bit of poking fun - it's
color. But let's avoid any emotional issues, because it does tend to
go too far. Okay? Okay, enough said Palmer.

**
Kudos to Steve Alexander for answering a Brewing Question! (Not that
he doesn't usually; he always answers them very well) See! See! Even
this simple statement can be misconstrued! I should have said Kudos to
(somebody) for answering a Brewing Question!
Let's talk about brewing.

John Palmer
jjpalmer at realbeer.com
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/
How To Brew - the book
http://www.howtobrew.com





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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:53:27 -0400
From: "FatCat" <fatcat at homebrew.com>
Subject: Brussels/Koln/Dusseldorf/London

Will be spending 4 days in each.
Whats the best place in each to drink beer?
Experienced opinion only, please.  Email fine.

Thanks

 

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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:57:21 -0400
From: "FatCat" <fatcat at homebrew.com>
Subject: CO2 Calculations

POBS by Fix 2nd Ed. has all you could ever want
to know about this, as well as easily 
understandable examples.  

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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:44:13 -0400
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE : False bottom design

	

Hello all,

     Richard Foote wrote in to ask about false bottom designs a few
days back.  Since no one has replied yet, I'll take a shot at it.
Richard outlined  his current set up and two alternatives.  His 
current FB has problems with a charge of grain husks about halfway
through the sparge, but has the outlet below the keg (if I read his
description correctly) which works well with his mash stirrer.

     Richard, I think I follow what you have in mind, but I'd like
to suggest something a bit different that might work better in the long
run.  First, I know exactly what you mean by a charge of husks coming
through halfway through the sparge.  I've found that it can be avoided
in my set up (similar FB from Sabco,) by making sure that 
        1. I keep the FB oriented the same way every time I install it.
        (Old kegs are rarely exactly round.  Play around until you find
        the orientation that fits most snugly, then etch the FB to
        mark it.)
        2. I avoid letting the level of sparge water on top of the grain
	bed get low enough so that the grain begins to compact against
        the FB.

    If these simple procedures fix the problem, you may not want to 
change your lautering set up.  However, if you still want to change 
things, my own preference would be to go with a pump for recirculating
the wort, rather than with a motorized mixer.   A recirculating pump can
help avoid any temperature gradients in the mash, as well as help with
very even heating and quick conversion. In many ways, it's a nice
replacement for a stirrer, as well as a valuable tool in other
respects.  If you run the pump to recirculate during heating, you can 
avoid the scorching problem you mention pretty easily.  As an added 
plus, you get crystal clear runoff to the kettle.

     If you do decide to go with a mixer, instead, I really can't think
of any FB/manifold system that will avoid scorching when you apply
direct heat.  Perhaps others have some novel ideas.

                        Paul Shick,
                        Cleveland Hts, OH


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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:40:56 -0400
From: pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com
Subject: Bleach

HBD'ers,

I had a discussion with my friends at the herb farm about using bleach to
sanitize. They had heard trough a trade magazine or Agricultural Bullitin
that the Scented Bleach that Clorox and others have come out with lately do
not have a sanitizing effect. Somehow the fung shwea (Karma) balance
between the killer properties have been outweighed by the overwhelming
pleasentness of the "fresh Spring" scent. Anyone else out there know
anything about this? or heard anything similar???

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Homebrewer
Jackson, MI



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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:12:40 -0700
From: "Paul McLaughlin" <pkemcl at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: First time all grain brewer has a pH question

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, but I have been a long time homebrewer.  I have
always kept it simple: Dry or liquid extracts, partial boils, dry ale yeast,
1 stage ferment, prime and bottle.  Batch after batch, I always made pretty
good ales and for all these many years had no real desire to do anything
more than that.  Recently, I added a lagering 'fridge ('cause I came by it
free) to my hardware collection and fermented some lagers.  Because I brewed
a lager, I had to try liquid yeast with a starter culture to get the
fermentation going faster.  I also had to do a seconday fermentation for the
lagers so I got another carboy.  A distant acquaintence was giving away
Corny kegs so I picked a couple up for free since I now had a fridge to put
them in.  I bought a nice big pot 'cause I wanted to do a full 5 gallon
batch boil to get better utilization.  I scrounged up a propane cooker cause
it took too long to boil 5 gal on the kitchen stove.  I made a wort chiller
'cause I boiled 5 gallons.  I got a wort areator cause I boiled 5 gallons.
I am becoming consumed by brewing beer!  My wife moved me out of the kitchen
for good it seems.  The next step is all grain - I have to do it or perish!
I have collected all the equipment I need for it - a big-ass stainless pot,
a mash tun, a lauter tun, sparger, etc. - most of which I jury rigged
myself.  I plan on making a pale ale for my first all grain batch and I
already have a recipie planned.  I want to keep it as simple as possible the
first time and do a single infusion, use a fully modified 2 row pale malt,
etc.

Anyway, here's my question:  With the "keep it simple" mantra in mind, do I
really need to worry about adjusting or even measuring the pH if my tap
water is nothing out of the ordinary and I'm using a fully modified malt?
The directions that come with Phil's Phalse bottom, for instance, say not to
worry about pH if you are using fully modified malt - just check for starch
conversion after an hour of mashing using the iodine test and it's off to
the boil.  Alot of other resources assume you are adjusting ph of the mash
and the sparge water don't even discuss the possibility of skipping the fuss
over the chemistry.  Is my beer doomed if I don't?

I plan on preboiling my water the day before to get rid of chlorine (which
isn't noticable out of the tap any way).  The ph and total hardness of my
tap water range seasonally from 8.5-9.2 and 44-82 respectively.  If you're
interested in more about my tap water, look up the Contra Costa Water
District in Concord, CA on the web (sorry, HBD won't accept a link) for
complete water analysis.

I am just looking for some sound, simple and sage advise from an experienced
fellow homebrewer - who is not trying to sell me chemicals and a pH meter
and books and gadgets and head aches and ............  I just want to keep
it simple and make great beer!

Regards,
Pauley

P.S.  To comment of one of the threads - anyone who assumes a home brewer is
an alchoholic is talking form ignorance - they know nothing of the passion
of brewing.  For years I have been brewing 15 to 20 5 gallon batches a year.
I only drink a fraction of what I brew - maybe less than half - I give most
of it away to family and friends.  A blanket statement like "a home brewer
is an an alcoholic" is like saying all LA Dodger fans are total a-holes.  I
personally know of 1 that is not a total a-hole.  Any way, what's it matter
unless you're married or related to them (or both - but that's another more
mooshine-related subject)?




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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 17:15:52 -0400
From: pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com
Subject: Targets

Jeff Renner alluded to this a while back and I have to agree, the Mega
brewers in their advertising for Malt Liquiors have securly fastned a
target around their neck. I see it like this--

If the Mega's start taking flak from the neo-prohibitionist right and the
libral lawsuit loving left, whose to say the Micro and pub brewers won't
benefit from a more educated public? The comparison to big tobacco just
doesn't fly in my mind. No state in the union has 30-60 Micro and
pub-tobaccories. But there are some 2000 odd breweries now...

I say let the guns roar!!!!!!

Phil Wilcox

Why thank you Mr. Galt, I take that box of ammo now.....



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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:9:23 -0400
From: "Paul Mahoney" <pmmaho at earthlink.net>
Subject: Giving it away

   Jonathon Westphal in HBD #3403 said:
Interestingly enough, the most popular beer I have made, among beer geeks
and philistines alike, is a 60/ Scottish Ale which weighs in at around 3.5%.
I am lucky if a keg lasts me a week!  Even the Budmilloors crowd who don't
like "that dark stuff" like it.  The best way to clear up preconceptions
about homebrew is to give lots of it away.  Spread the religion, people!  

   Intersting comment, since I have found the same to be true down here in
southwestern Virginia.  My spouse is a special education teacher, and we
often have her teacher friends over to our home for parties.  Once I made a
German Ale (not too hoppy, just a little Tett and Hallertau!) and a Scotch
Ale for a party.  The Scotch Ale was the biggest hit of the evening. 
Drained my keg!
   I let the same group sample my SNPA clone from Big Brew 2000, but they
still preferred the Scotch Ale, even tho they had drank it all 3 months
before.
   Yes, it helps to give lots of good homebrew away.  It does spread the
religion and the craft and the taste and the idea that we are not all
drunks. 

   Aussies: I have a friend in Canberra named Roger Rose.  Works for your
federal government as an agricultural economist (he has this strange
fascination with sheep!).  He is a wine drinker, prefers cab sav.  Anyone
on the hbd know him?  If you do, give him a good homebrew for me!



- --- Paul Mahoney
- --- pmmaho at earthlink.net
Redskins and Homebrew, what more could a man want!
Roanoke, Va.



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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <Rama.Roberts at eng.sun.com>
Subject: good mail order stores?

I'm just getting started (reading The Complete
Handbook of Homebrewing now) and am at the point where
I'd like to start my first batch, but there aren't any
brew supply stores nearby. 

Anyone have any recommendations for a mail order brew
supply store, preferrably online? 

thanks
- --rama





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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:27:05 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Grain extraction ratings

Here is one for the Aussies.

John Palmer and I have just been having an off-digest chat about some
differences between Ahmerika and Ahstrarlya. We were exchanging views (in a
very civilised manner I must point out) on the question of metric vs US
units. He asked me a Q that made me think a bit. What do we over here do
about the grain conversion rating units of pts per pound? Do we convert it
to pts per kg or what?

My answer is I pretty much avoid it altogether. I just work in extraction
efficiency (as calculated by some neat bit of brew software or other) and
estimate the nominal ppg for the grain in the database.

So I put it to all the Aussies..what do you do?

Cheers,

Steve Lacey
Sydney (exactly one month to go).


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