HOMEBREW Digest #3405 Wed 16 August 2000

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  re: "Dead bacteria walking" (Darren Miller)
  One more to spew on.. (Rod Prather)
  To good to be trub? (BShotola)
  re: good mail order stores? (John_E_Schnupp)
  Re: First time all grain brewer has a pH question (Lance Levsen)
  Ayinger Hells, my BdG ("Graham Sanders")
  Decoction ("Graham Sanders")
  re: Complexity and grain bills/political screed ("Stephen Alexander")
  Carapils; need for a pH meter (Ant Hayes)
  Freezing yeast (John Baxter Biggins)
  RE: Freezing yeast ("Walter H. Lewis III")
  One For The Aussies ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  I voted and I want to Complain ("Fred Kingston")
  Autoclaves & bleach ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Chimay Blue ("Spies, Jay")
  Re: Wyeast Pitchable (John Adsit)
  Fruit in Beer (Rod Prather)
  Brussels/Koln/Dusseldorf/London ("Bruce Garner")
  Want to buy Filter ("Bruce Garner")
  Books on growing hops (Ken Miller)
  Brewpots/FWH/and Yeast Starters (Andrew Nix)
  Mash temps and enzyme activity (Doug Hurst)
  Re: Freezing yeast ("patrick finerty jr.")
  re: Who creates laws anyway? (Bill Wible)
  re: good mail order stores? (Rama Roberts)
  Peaches and Politics with beer (AlannnnT)
  Adelaide Hills Homebrew club (Darren)

* * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org) [Pat's on vacation.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:09:54 +0900 From: Darren Miller <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au> Subject: re: "Dead bacteria walking" I might start by saying that I agree entirely that no organism can survive autoclaving in a properly functioning autoclave. I do though understand how an organism could survive in an autoclave. Generally the only type of autoclave that could be described as "fully functional" would exist only in a hospital setting. You wouldnt get your homebrew gear within 100 metres of one of these. If you were to use a hospital autoclave there are numerous factors which effect the efficacy of sterilisation. One of these is the first rule of sterilisation and that is correct cleaning. There have been numerous cases of human infection with hep B virus where surgical equipment had been correctly sterilised in an autoclave but were not cleaned properly. (i might add that viruses are no more resistant to autoclaving than spore forming bacteria) and hospital autoclaves usually run at 132 degrees C for twenty minutes.As a side point too, Hep B virus can be grown from 2/5 re-usable instruments found in dental surgeries even though they have been "autoclaved". The reason people arn't becoming infected with the virus is the dose is too low. Secondly the amount placed in an autoclave and how it is packaged can adversely effect the efficacy of autoclaving. For these reasons I cannot see why a "heat resistant" bacteria cannot survive autoclaving especially with the caked on crap I see on my fermentors following three months lagering. I guess what I am saying is that no amount of sanitation will work on poorly cleaned equipment. cheers and brew on Bruce C. Lately Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:55 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: One more to spew on.. Ran into this one last week while sitting by Kentucky Lake kicking back a few. Chumming the Cove. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 02:20:34 EDT From: BShotola at aol.com Subject: To good to be trub? Thanks to all of you who responded to my mash questions a couple of days ago. Using the KISS system, I will infusion mash and not fret too much about HSA. I can step up to step mashing after learning the basics. I have some new questions, still all in preparation of my big first all grain fiasco - er- fiesta... Chas. Papazian recommends whirlpooling and siphoning off hot break trub from the wort while it is still hot, using a stainless cane rigged with a copper scrubber as a filter. He then recommends reboiling the dang wort for a short time to resanitize. I don't have an additional large brewpot so I guess I have to siphon into two smaller pots and then, trying not to aerate, get it all back into the original big bertha for the reboil. 1) What happens in the meantime to the concept of the last minute steeping of aroma hops? Should I hold those off for the reboil? Egad. 2) Can I, with sanitized tools and putting down homebrew, carefully whirlpool and siphon AFTER immersion chilling, or will God in his infinite wisdom strike my beer down dead with every variety of microbe in Yamhill County? 3) How does one get the five gallons of cooled wort from the pot to the carboy? Can I put on my weight training belt and just lift the pot and pour through a strainer full of hops as in the good old extract days? Or is this insane and foolhardy and instead I should siphon? I picture a 2 meter long siphon, with the wort building up enough speed to make a great frothy aerated waterfall in my carboy. Oh boy, can't wait to brew! Bob Shotola on topic in Yamhill, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:31:38 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: good mail order stores? Rama, >I'd like to start my first batch, but there aren't any >brew supply stores nearby. I'm sure you've looked. What about local homebrewers? BTW, where are you located? Sorry Jeff, looks like I'm taking over your job. >Anyone have any recommendations for a mail order brew >supply store, preferrably online? I've only ever dealt with William's and that is usually only for stuff that my local shop doesn't carry. I've never bought ingredients mail order or online. I'm sure a multi-engine search site would net you a lot of results. If you look at some of the signatures, you'll find there are some of the shops that post to the HBD. These places might also be a good start. John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Homebrewery Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:53:24 -0600 From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com> Subject: Re: First time all grain brewer has a pH question > I plan on preboiling my water the day before to get rid of chlorine (which > isn't noticable out of the tap any way). The ph and total hardness of my > tap water range seasonally from 8.5-9.2 and 44-82 respectively. If you're Well, one thing going in your favour. Calcium Bicarbonate will precipitate out of your water after the boil. This will reduce the pH of the water, in turn allowing the grains to bring it down to at least the magic 5.3. A note though, higher levels of bicarbonate are good for bitters. An alternative is to let the water sit in a primary for three days, the chlorine with escape. As to, "Is my beer doomed" . . . Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. :-) I've done water treatment, and not done water treatment, for a range of ale styles, in different regions. The beer is always good. Water treatment is (IMNSHO) step 5; sanitary conditions, full-wort boil, chilling, and liquid yeast come before water treatment for good beer. Undoubtably this will raise the ire of readers . . . C'est la vie. Cheers, - -- Lance Levsen, Programmer Product Innovation PWGroup - S'toon. 477-3166 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:20:46 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Ayinger Hells, my BdG G'day All Well I have been a bit busy this week making my new brew room. Got to pour the slab on Thursday and thats taking a lot of my spare time. But I have been thru too weekends of Rugby finals with my Ayinger Hells and BdG and thought a small report was in order. I must first point out that I haven't attended any state of the art tasting school so my description is solely on a North queensland triangular taste test. First was Phils drug induced Ayinger. I put this on a fairly standard Hells and do like the results. I found it to be very clean with a dry crisp flavour. The malt came throu, but also some hop bitterness. Interesting SWMBO hates bitter beers, and will screw up her nose at anything with any astrigency but found this hells very nice (most unfortunately). I remember Jeff Renner having high praise for this yeast and I have to agree. Not too bad. Thing it would go great in all lightly flavoured lagers, certainly Pilsners, Octoberfest to Viennas, and the light coloured bocks. I do wonder thou how it would go on the darker lagers, especially a big Bock or Dopplebock, where you are after a more richer, full bodied flavour. Might still stick to my Barvarian for that. But yes the ayinger is now a permanent member of my yeast bank. Will try it in a Octoberfest, or German Pils next. Suck time. Thanks Phils for sharing this. Next is my BdG. Made in June , tasted the first last weekend. Now here's a bloody complex beer, and i do mean complex. For me with no real training in tasting, I was slurping, sloshing almost gargling trying to work out the flavours. It was the threat of sex from SWMBO that made me stop. Anyway the colour was great. A deep red ruby colour out of the bottle. Never got a beer with this colour before. The nose was difficult to describe. It was dry slightly estery (like a very, very weak belgian), but when you gave it a swirl, it was also sweet, spicy with a slight plum edge. Most gratifying to say the least. Til I was yelled at "Well are you going to drink the thing or not". Taste was easier. definitely caramel type tastes first up front. as the beer goes over the tongue this is then overpowered by more general malt flavour but by the time its at the back of the tongue its nicely dry and refreshing. On the sample with a bit of wood shavings it also finished off with a slight tannic edge that was not at all unpleasant. Overall, it certainly left you licking you lips wanting more. This is certainly the closest I have had to some of the BdG I have had here. Certainly recommend to any BdG brewers the least you could try is to boil down part of the wort into a syrup and add it back to the boil. It gives an unreal complexity. Oh what is a North Queensland Triangular taste test. Pour three glasses to be sampled out. Start with your weakest hand (most its the left) and take in its aroma and take a drink. If you can get it to your mouth with this hand the smell can't be too bad so its worth proceding. Pick up the next one in the right hand. Now you have had a good smell and slight taste, so you need a stronger hand and will to get it to your mouth. Have a good swig and really taste the beer for whats its worth. Now pick up the third glass in both hands. If you can force this one to the mouth it must be all right to drink and judge. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:32:05 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Decoction G'day All Well have to wade into this one (with my pet saltie in tow to protect me of course) . >Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:20:01 -0500 From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com> Subject: Decoction and other fun topics . . . . Hi folks: Are the perceived qualitative benefits of decoction mashing real, or just a momily?........ there is nothing that amateur brewers can get from decoction mashing that you can't also get from step infusion mashing and recipe formulation (e.g., increase the amount of Munich malt a bit if you want more melanoidins).<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Now in typical NQLD style lets do the last point first. By saying you can get these flavours by adjusting your receipe implies that there is something to be gained from a decoction mash. And to take it a step further, adjusting receipes to try to duplicate a flavour rarely is the same as getting that original flavour, be it beer or cooking. Sure there are shortcuts in everything, but usually there is a price to pay as well. Now is a decoction worth while in gereral (lets stick to flavour and not other varables like efficiency, time, colour etc)? Well I find the answer is a yes -no. Oh I hear it now, he's fence sitting again (or am I sitting on some-ones pole). We did a bit of experimenting a few years back at the club on decoctions. You know, identical receipes, blind tasting and all that crap. Anyway we could pick up the difference between a decoction mash and a step infusion mash, especially so in the lighter beers, like a heffeW. It was definitely there, a slight extra dimention to the flavour. (so where's the fence sitting come in) But, dont do it side by side, or give one sample a week appart, well not many could pick which was which (although the experienced brewers could). So, yes decoction does work, but I believe its suttle and not easily picked up by most craftbrewers. So I can also agree with the reasoning of chucking in a handful of Munich if you like. I do Double and tripple decoctions on all my lagers and even the occasional ale, only because I want that extra .001% improvement in my beers. And also, any excuss to extend the mash day so I dont have to front SWMBO. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 05:43:20 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Complexity and grain bills/political screed Jim Verlinde >Many times I have wondered what is meant when a beer is judged >as "complex" and what contributes to this characteristic. Would a long grain >bill, variety of hop additions, or some specific brewing techniques >transform a beer from an average, Plain-Jane brew into something complex and >therefore wonderful? Complex flavors include MULTIPLE DISTINCT flavors, but "therefore wonderful" doesn't automatically follow. To be distinct the different flavors must be in some range of balance. The "wonderful" part comes in if flavors work well with each other. You might be able to balance flavors in a sauce of tomato, ginger and mint - and tho complex I doubt it could ever be wonderful. Examples of a simple vs complex flavor would be artificial fruit flavors vs same natural fruit flavor. The artificial ones often have the same top few flavor chemicals, but the natural products have a lot of secondary flavors that add greatly to complexity. Some of the artificial flavors in children's drinks and candy are remarkably one dimensional, simple. Maybe that's why so many adults prefer unchallenging lagers ? Beer seems as tho' it would be an inherently complex beverage, with contributions from malt, yeast, hops, minerals and carbonation - yet it's all relative. Some beers rely heavily on one component so balance is lost and other flavors cease to be distinct. A lot of HB APAs are this way - the hops are so big it overshadows any malt or yeast. Too many US weizen's just whack you on the head with 4VG+banana esters I'm sure we've all had or made an ale that just had pale+crystal+EKG and a conventional yeast - and altho' the components are in balance and it tastes quite good, it's just too obvious what went into it. Yeasts - some give inherently complex flavors, others more simple (e.g. wy1028 vs wy1056). >Or, on the other hand, can a beer brewed with a simple >recipe be considered "complex"? I've good friend who is far better than I with recipe formulation. I don't mean to give away Mark's edge - but he always uses three different hops, as I dimly recall two in balance, one in background. More is a waste, tho' fewer can make a great beer too. Some malts can present complex flavors alone, but it's not always the case. Some malts really are very plain tasting. A good base malt really doesn't need a lot of dressing up. It takes only two or three distinct and balanced malts and hops to confuse your senses. And every beer doesn't need to have complex malt and hops and yeast flavors - even one complex facet works nicely. IMO recipes with more than about 4 malts or hops are often just 'hacks', as is obvious when you see tiny quantities or near duplicate ingredients. == >Amendment I >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or >prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, >or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to >petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That is the 'separation' talked about. It says the govt can't touch religion or it's practice.. If you are upset w/ the semi-convincing religious chatter by candidates - well I understand but it's unrelated. So too the legitimate lobbying of churches or anyone else for their POVs. I agree with David Harsh that players from all over the political spectrum oppose alcohol, not especially churches. Even if they did - so what ? The problem isn't that prohibitionists or anti-smoking lobbyists represent a majority view. That would be fine. It's that a majority may unjustly infringe on the rights of a minority. That's why I fundamentally disagree with PatB's approach of trying to sway opinion re HB. It may be advantageous on one issue, but it glosses over the fundamental problem - respect for the rights of minorities and tolerance for nonPC activities. Why can't women(a majority) vote to remove the voting rights of men for example ? This problem is deTocqueville's 'tyranny of the majority', also addressed in the Federalist Papers. The bill of rights, and several additional amendments are supposed to prevent this by citing specific rights and ceding all other rights to states and individuals. Not very closely observed for 100+yrs tho'. How is it fair that a majority shift most of the Fed tax burden to Bill Gates, Steve Forbes and their ilk ? How can P.D.Moynihan talk blithely about punitive taxes on constitutionally protected rights ? Or Mr.Lieberman(sp?), the DEM VP candidate, last week to threaten the movie industry w/ usurpation of 1st amendment rights ? [GOPs can be just as boneheaded]. It has to do with appealing to a majority so to void rights of, or place unjust burdens on, a minority. Very undemocratic stuff. Suing companies that produce a legal tobacco products which act exactly as expected and advertized (at least for the past 25+ yrs) makes little sense. Why not sue Morton salt for making a hypertensive food agent that has undoubtedly lead to a great number of health problems ? Also where will the settlement money come from when an unburdened new tobacco company starts selling Marlboro knock-offs ? RJR's Oreos ? Of course similar arguments as used against tobacco could be made against fast food, alcohol, junk foods, unsecured loan & credit card offers, stepladders, how-to books, state lotteries, casinos, skydiving & climbing equipment, amateur mycology books, fast cars and beautiful women. All things which tempt us to actions that we should not undertake carelessly, yet we should be able to undertake despite risks and social costs. Not making a ready target of oneself, as LouisB suggests is undoubtedly advantageous in the short term, but it does nothing to solve the problem. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:55:23 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Carapils; need for a pH meter Glen Pannicke said, "One thing I've been doing to just about every batch is adding a small portion of carapils or carafoam to the bill to aid in creating a head on the beer. I'd like to achieve the same effects without adding this charge." Carapils and carafoam have not made it out here as far as I know. 100g of cake flour in a 20 litre batch works for me as a heading agent. (Thanks Andy Mitchell) Alternatively a protein rest seems to work as well. Paul McLaughlin asked, "With the "keep it simple" mantra in mind, do I really need to worry about adjusting or even measuring the pH if my tap water is nothing out of the ordinary and I'm using a fully modified malt?" You can taste a beer where the pH is too high - which is likely if you do not adjust pH since most tap water has a pH above 7 and malt buffers at about 5,5 (or thereabouts). However, I brewed for many years without the aid of a pH meter - working out the amount of acid to use by trial and error. A teaspoon of citric acid granules in the mash liquor, and another in the sparge liquor, on a 20 litre batch did the trick given my tap water. When I finally bought a pH meter I found that I was adding slightly too much acid - but the improvement in my beers has been marginal. However if you are going to acid wash your yeast a pH meter is critical in my view, and proper yeast management has improved my beer more than almost anything else. Ant Hayes Brewing where beer was invented. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:36:21 -0400 From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu> Subject: Freezing yeast Yeast need to be in a 15% glycerol solution in order to freeze. The glycerol prevents cell wall lysing and gives a "sherbert" like consistency when frozen, so it is easy to scrape up a sample for re-growth. To regrow, take a stab from the frozen stock & smear on an agar plate w/ media (wort). Grow under the same growth conditions you do for normal yeast fermentation & wait for nice healthy colonies or smears to form over the next 2-3 days (white & fluffy). Take colony & re-grow in small amount of wort (~1 mL) until confluent growth & repitch into 10x amount of fresh wort (10 mL) & repeat (100 mL --> 1 L --> etc) until you have enough to pitch a nice churning starter for your primary. Needless to say, avoiding possible contamination is paramount. Bacterial contamination during re-growth screws the entire process & a contaminated glycerol stock is garbage. - -- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences Student -- Program in Pharmacology Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics lab:(212)693-6405 fax:(212)717-3135 http://www.ski.edu/lab_homepage.cfm?lab=189 "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:11:59 -0700 From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com> Subject: RE: Freezing yeast After reading several posts regarding freezing yeast I gave it a try. I made a 50/50 mix of glycerine and water. Got as much liquid off the yeast cake of my fermenter as Icould. Added the 50/50, sloshed and put the slury in a sanitized container. A week later I harvested a couple of tablespoons of the slury and began to step up the yeast. I had harvested Wyeast American II. It began to bubble, but the crausen didn't seem to fall. I smelled the yeast and found a distinct sour aroma. Not what I was comfortable with. Several weeks later I checked on my frozen yeast. SOLID! Not what I had expected. This experiment was a failure for me, but I'd love to try again and hear some success stories. Walt Lewis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:47:07 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: One For The Aussies Steve Lacey, after having a chit chat conversation off line with John Palmer, asks the question of real Aussies (ie ones who don't live in Sydney and care naught but a donkey's turd for the up and coming Olympics), "what do we do over here about the grain conversion rating units of pts per pound? I'd like to address the question but I am afraid I don't understand it. I'm a bit wary of Steve's questions. He's already conned me into donating a keg of rice lager (and I might add, my presence) at a homebrew promotion day in October in his beloved Sydney where men are men and the men are nervous. But I digress. What are "pts per pound"? Are we talking about extraction efficiency? Do you mean points per pound? I have my own calculations and I never go near promash. I'm quite happy to offer them if this is what you are asking. But as I said, I am wary of Steve's requests. Here I am donating a keg of rice lager when I have more than a fair share of half naked ladies huddled around the pool table wondering what the hell to do with a totally naked Eric Fouch spread eagled on the felt! Feeling a bit confused? So am I !! Eric says he "aint movin" till someone shows him where the outback is. Let Me Do The Honours Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:15:11 -0400 From: "Fred Kingston" <Fred at KingstonCo.com> Subject: I voted and I want to Complain On August 14, 2000, John Schnupp postulates: > WELL, here's one solution: If you don't vote, don't bitch. > > If you were elected, wouldn't the laws you create be based on your > "beliefs"? And wouldn't you have gotten elected in the first place > because you got enough people who had similar "beliefs" to vote for > you? John.... I voted. Although, I didn't vote for the current folks. I simply didn't believe in their affairs of state... if you know what I mean.... :) Does your premise also mean, that because one has voted, one is not allowed to raise questions of dissent? Maybe if THOSE folks relaxed, and had a homebrew, they'd have less problems.... Fred Kingston Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:16:56 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Autoclaves & bleach Alan and Jesse both can't believe that there are any organisms which can survive a properly functioning autoclave. I'd have to agree with them. At 121 deg C, and 15 psi you'll kill just about everything in about 30 minutes. If you don't believe it then the next time the doctor wants to stick you with a needle, tell him/her "NO! It's not sterile and I don't want to die of bacteraemia!" The effectiveness of autoclaving is determined by the rate at which bacterial cells are thermally inactivated. This rate is dependent upon 3 factors: pressure, temperature and the time of heat exposure. In practical terms this means that it would take a longer amount of time at lower temperatures to sterilize a given population than at a high temperature. Additionally, the higher the concentration of organisms that need to be killed, the longer it will take to kill all of the cells in that population at the same temperature. In validating an autoclave, test are performed on known loads. These tests determine the time, pressure and temperature needed to sterilize a biological indicator (such as Bacillus stearothermophilus spores) at a pre-determined concentration. As you can guess by the name, B. stearothermophilus is a heat-loving bacteria. Pediococcus is good at finding hiding places such as scratches in your plastic fermenter or pores in your wooden cask where it can hide from bleach and other sanitizers, but compared to a B. stearothermophilus spore in an autoclave, it's a wuss. Most cases of autoclave failure are attributed to mechanical failure of the autoclave or operator error. Operator error would also include procedural errors which account for insufficient autoclave time. Many medical waste disposal procedures call for what I would consider to be overkill 131 deg C, 25 psi and 60 minutes contact time. But we want to be sure in these cases... Phil W. wrote about bleach: >I had a discussion with my friends at the herb farm about using bleach to >sanitize. They had heard trough a trade magazine or Agricultural Bullitin >that the Scented Bleach that Clorox and others have come out with lately do >not have a sanitizing effect. If the bleach contains 5.25% sodium hypochlorite it will work just fine. I personally shy away from scents and thickening agents due to unknown rinsibility issues. Who wants rain fresh beer?!? The less crap you have in there, the better off you are. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:26:53 -0400 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: Chimay Blue All - Grant Stott wrote a few HBD's back asking for hints on reproducing Chimay Blue, esp the raisiny notes (sorry for the delay, I'm behind in my HBD's). He touched a subject near and dear to my heart - creating the perfect replica of Chimay Grand Reserve (blue cap). I have been tweaking it for some time now, and I think I've got it down to where it's nearly spot on for the real thing (it'll never be totally there...) IMHO, you must use Belgian grains for the specialty additions, plus Noble hops... I feel that the plum/raisiny flavor comes from two things: Special-B malt and Trappist yeast strains fermented in the low to mid 70's. Here's my recipe for 10 gallons all grain: Holy Grail Trappist Ale Style: Belgian Abbey-Style Dubbel Brew Type: All-Grain Brew Length: 10 gallons ABV: 8.6% Efficiency: 65% Grist: 28 lbs 3L DeWolf Cosyns Pilsner malt 3.5 lbs 25L DWC Aromatic malt 3.5 lbs 22L DWC CaraVienne malt 1 lb 220L DWC Special-B malt 2 lb Cane Sugar Yeast: Combination of Whitelabs WLP 500 Trappist ale and Wyeast 3787 Westmalle Dubbel Hops: 2 oz Styrian Goldings pellets (5.25% AA) at 60 1 oz Hallertauer Mittlefrueh pellets (4.7% AA) at 30 1 oz Saaz pellets (4.3% AA) at 15 Water: No water treatment Specifics: 45 quarts water at 167 degrees strike in (1.2 qt/lb) Single Infusion at 153 degrees for 90 min Expected characteristics: OG 1.083 FG 1.018 IBU 23 SRM 17.4 Hope this helps. You can substitute Weyermann or Weissheimer Pils malt for the DeWolf Cosyns, actually, I have gotten better conversion when I've done it this way. I'm not sure what you can get down there in OZ, though... Just make sure you make a kick ass starter and oxygenate well prior to pitching. Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:22:29 -0600 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Re: Wyeast Pitchable Keith Busby asks about Wyeast pitchables. My homebrew store owner had just picked up a few samples, and he asked me if I would try one (without a starter) in my next brew, just to see how it works. I used a fresh bottle (10 days old) of Bohemian Pilsner for a CAP I made this past Saturday. I pitched at 5:00 PM, and, as per instructions, left it at around 75 degrees until I saw visible fermentation. I spaced out checking it before going to bed, but it was going full throttle by 8:00 the next morning, at which time I put it in the fridge. I don't know when visible fermentation started, but it was clearly well within the 12 hours advertised on the label. It's still going strong. So, in my one personal experience with a Wyeast pitchable, I would have to say that, as far as lag time is concerned at least, it was excellent, even without a starter. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:08:59 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Fruit in Beer Fruit in Beer?? I hope he isn't a relative. Did you get him out? I have a cooking program with a nutritional analysis utility attached. It uses FDA / USDA nutritional data. According to Now You're Cooking (blatant plug by a satisfied user), 1 Lb of sweet raw cherries has about 75.1 grams of carbohydrate. This is about equal to 6 tablespoons (74.9 grams) or about 2 3/4 oz by weight (77.8 grams) granulated sugar. Your 11 lb. of "emaciated cherries,sweet,raw" should contain about 825 grams as carbohydrates (I assume most to be fermentables). just about equivalent to 30 oz (850 grams, almost 2 lbs) of granulated sugar. I think it will taste like cherries though. Here's a few others. 1 lb of blackberries,raw 57.8 grams 1 lb of raspberries,raw 52.5 grams 1 lb of peaches,raw 50.3 grams Does anyone know how to get sg per pound? I take no responsibility for these numbers. Certainly they represent a mean value. Plus, the numbers come from the FDA. The people who allow you to put modified food starch, sugar and gelatin in yogurt and still call it yogurt. If I put all that garbage in milk and tried to sell it, they'd make me call it pudding. Stabilizers my ass. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:42:33 -0500 From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com> Subject: Brussels/Koln/Dusseldorf/London In Koln spend an afternoon walking around the district just south of the Cathedral. Start at Fruh and go to Peters, Gaffel, Paffgen etc. They are subtly different and within a few blocks of each other. Fruh has very good food. Earlier in the day, I suggest checking into a hotel in Dusseldorf which is only 20 km north by train (station next to Koln Cathedral) In Dusseldorf no one should miss Zum Urige on a pleasant weekend evening. The street outside closes for drinking and inside several rooms are packed with young and old. Bring some bottles back to compare with US alts like Otter Creek. Both are good but very different from each other. Zum Schlussel is good and Im Fuchschen has excellent food. In both towns putting your coaster on top of your glass prevents the servers from automatically putting down another round. Don't make the mistake of telling anyone in either town that you like the other city's style better. I stayed with and was taken round by a family that lived between Dusseldorf and Koln and had roots in both towns. It sounds as if I lifted my comments from Michael Jackson's Beer Companion, but without his prompting the family took me to these their favorite places and generally agreed with his guidance when I showed them the book the next morning. I think there is a beer festival in August/September in the Dusseldorf/Koln area. In London, buy a CAMRA Good Beer Guide in any book store and follow their recommendations. Also check www.camra.org for any beer festivals that might be happening in the city or near London. Olympia has just passed and may cast a bit of an event shadow but a CAMRA beer festival mustn't be missed. Brussels anyone? Bruce Garner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:19:35 -0500 From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com> Subject: Want to buy Filter I am interested in buying a Marcon, Carosello, 5 plate pressurized filter system. If anyone has one for sale please email. Bruce Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:32:07 -0400 From: Ken Miller <kgmiller at vignette.com> Subject: Books on growing hops I planned two cascade rhizomes this spring and never expected to see hop cones until next year. Well, there are plenty of them growing on one plant and I've got another month of growing season left. This has caught me a little unprepared. I need some simple advice on when to pick, how to dry, and how to prepare the plants for the winter. If anyone can recommend a good book on growing hops, that would help prevent these questions in the future. Thanks, Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:43:52 -0500 From: Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu> Subject: Brewpots/FWH/and Yeast Starters Hey ya'll....just got back into the fray of actually READING my HBD emails rather than just storing them in a directory and forgetting about them. After reading todays HBD, I have several questions....see I like to group them together to save valuable time (NOT). 1. After reading the posts on cleaning SS brepots, I have a different question. I recently started using a propane burner (yes...no more kitchen B.S.) and brewing outside in the summer air....(jamming to good tunes and drinking beer outside whilst brewing kicks a$$). While brewing recently, I had a conversation with my assistant and budding homebrewer about measuring volumes, something that has ever been a difficulty for me. Knowing how much wort is in the kettle is pain. We decided we would add 5.5 gals of water to the kettle and mark it. I tried to put a dent in the kettle, which is an aluminum enameled pot, the cajun cooker kind. Anyway, the damn thing chipped both outside AND inside. I know people don't like to use bare aluminum, but should I worry about this small piece of exposed aluminum??? 2. First Wort Hopping.....How does everyone do this. I know I have read other posts and in the archives, but do you add pellets, leaf, plugs (??) to the kettle while draining off during the sparge and then the hops are in for the whole boil?? How does FWH differ from say putting the hops in the mash?? 3. Although I have been brewing since 1993, I only do a few batches a year (it seems to come in spurts). In this time, I have NEVER done a yeast starter. I've also never had any problems with NOT doing so. However, I can't help but feel like I am missing out on somethine. It's always just seemed like one more area to make mistakes. Any thoughts on this?? My next batch, I intend to do a starter...any info or quick tips/steps in the process would be appreciated. Drewmeister Andrew Nix Department of Mechanical Engineering Virginia Tech anix at vt.edu http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:58:45 -0500 From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Mash temps and enzyme activity I've been lurking on the HBD for about five months and brewing for twelve years. I recently made the jump to all grain. I'm using a Phil type system from Williams to do simple infusion mashing. This system uses a plastic bucket fitted with a false bottom and comes with an insulated jacket to maintain temperature throughout the mash. I understand that different enzymes work best at various temps in the 142-155 degree F range. What I would like to konw is whether the enzymes that are active at lower end of the range are destroyed at the high end of the range. In other words, is it possible to do a reverse step mash where I start mashing at say, 154 degrees and then let the temperature drop naturally to around 144? Thanks, Doug Hurst Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:12:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: Re: Freezing yeast hi, how are you planning on freezing the yeast? ie, what temperature and how will you get the yeast to that temperature? if you only have a normal household freezer (as opposed to a -80 deg C freezer) the yeast may not last that long as household freezers are usually around -20 deg C. you especially need to avoid self defrosting freezers as they cycle temperatures up and down to prevent frost formation. this is a sure way to kill cells. here's a reasonable method that should work for you. i'm making this up as i go based on my lab experience (13 yrs now)... grow some yeast under ideal conditions (not beer making conditions). be sure to provide plenty of aeration and nutrients. while the yeast are still actively growing (before they have used all of the nutrients). put them in the fridge and allow them to settle to the bottom of the flask or whatever container you're using. pour off the supernatant. you will lose some yeast which isn't a big deal. add sterile glycerol to ~40-50 % vol/vol. an equal volume is probably fine. don't store the cells in the glycerol solution too long before freezing. it's a very osmotically stressful environment so freeze them right away. put the yeast/glycerol mixture in a container suitable for freezing. you need to have a container that seals very well (to prevent sublimation during storage) and won't crack. next, you need to freeze the cells quickly. simply putting them in the freezer is a bad idea and will likely reduce cell viability. what you should get is some dry ice (solid CO2). crush this to a fine powder using a hammer and put the container into it. oh, the container for the yeast should be small, like a couple of mLs or so. you want the solution to freeze rapidly so crystals are not formed as these will pierce the cells and thus kill the yeast. the glycerol is supposed to help with this too. in the lab i do something quite similar. however, i use a final concentration of 15% glycerol and store the cells in our -80 deg C freezer. also, i am able to make very concentrated yeast slurries as we have centrifuges and sterile equipment. good luck! -patrick in Toronto - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://www.finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:57:38 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com> Subject: re: Who creates laws anyway? John Schnupp whines... >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:23:17 -0700 >From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com >Subject: Who creates laws anyway? >and Bill Babbles: >>It seems everyone making >>our laws today is a member of some religious group, and all are >>making moves on our freedoms, from the continual and still ongoing >>onslaught against tobacco, to backing down the legal DUI blood alcohol >>to .08 througout the US, using highway tax dollars, etc. (Check the >>current stories on RealBeer.com) I don't care to have my laws made >>based on somebody else's religious beliefs. >WELL, here's one solution: If you don't vote, don't bitch. >If you were elected, wouldn't the laws you create be based on your >"beliefs"? And wouldn't you have gotten elected in the first place >because you got enough people who had similar "beliefs" to vote for >you? >John Schnupp, N3CNL >Dirty Laundry Homebrewery >Georgia, VT >95 XLH 1200 NO John, when a representative is elected, he or she is supposed to vote in a way that represents the interests and desires of the majority of the people he or she represents, and NOT according to his or her own beliefs. Did they not teach you politics in school?! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:12:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Rama Roberts <Rama.Roberts at Eng.Sun.COM> Subject: re: good mail order stores? First off, I'd like to thank everyone for the tons of responses and advice I received! You've more than given me a good start in the right direction. >I'm sure you've looked. What about local homebrewers? BTW, where >are you located? Sorry Jeff, looks like I'm taking over your job. I checked Yahoo yellow pages for shops near my address (I live in the San Francisco bay area), but nothing was listed near me. Turns out William's Brewing (one of the many suggestions I got in reply to my question) is in San Leandro, CA- which isn't terribly far. It wasn't listed in Yahoo at all! I'm going to make an effort to support the local guy and get my gear and ingredients from them. In case anyone's interested, here's a summary of sites people forwarded me, the top group being the most popular, meaning more than one person recommended them: http://www.stpats.com http://www.Grapeandgranary.com http://www.williamsbrewing.com http://www.hoptech.com http://www.freshops.com/ http://heartshomebrew.com/home_3.html http://www.homebrewing.org/ http://www.bobbrews.com http://www.mdhb.com/ http://vintagecellar.com/vintage/ http://www.ebrew.com general info: http://beer.about.com/hobbies/beer/mbody.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:16:09 EDT From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: Peaches and Politics with beer J. Palmer says, Everyone knows that you don't discuss religion and politics at dinner. Right? Well John, I guess that depends. I think a stimulating discussing over dinner should include some decent, well thought out argument over politics and religion, or whatever comes up. What else is all that togetherness for? Besides, that's how the best food fights start. Anything less would be dreadfully boring. Speaking of brewing, I just got some fresh peaches from the local orchard. Eighteen pounds are blurping their way into becoming 6 gallons of wine, and ten pounds are about to become a peach ale. I've got a light body brown ale almost finished in the primary, and then I'll pour it onto the ten pounds of mashed peaches. If you ask the orchard manager for the small or unsaleable peaches they are cheap. I paid about 55 cents a pound. yum. Best Brewing, Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:57:17 +0930 From: Darren <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Adelaide Hills Homebrew club Does anyone know who I would contact regarding meeting times etc? Thanks Darren Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 08/16/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96