---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Hop Question (Dan McFeeley)
  Indetifying people (John Adsit)
  brewing books ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  brewing books ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Rennerian coordinates and coincidences??!? ("Brett A. Spivy")
  % Alcohol by volume calculation ("Nigel Porter")
  Pap (Some Guy)
  Urea ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  re. Beer prices in Canada ("Darryl Newbury")
  Chloramines (MAB)
  Chloramines (MAB)
  cost of beers in France / wort aeration (Arnaud VIEZ)
  pomme frites/koeln (B.R. Rolya)
  Thanks ("Leland Predon")
  Jasmine Rice ("Warren White")
  Real Beer Page (Dan Listermann)
  Glass etched (Aaron Perry)
  re: IBU assays and spectrophotometers (cat: quite twoeey) ("Dr. Pivo")
  Thanks! ("Matt and/or Hazel Tolley")
  Re:  probably the world's finest homebrew supply (Guy Mason)
  Regarding St. Pat's Claim on malt donation... ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  RE: Cooler manifold ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Homebrew club? YES! ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:11:51 -0500
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley at keynet.net>
Subject: Hop Question

This is sort of a beer related question for the HBD collective, even though
I'm asking for help on a mead recipe.  I'd run across a recipe for T'ej,
an Ethiopian style mead, and posted it on the Mead Lovers Digest, but the
recipe calls for the use of "woody hops" with no other information on what
kind of hop that might be.  

T'ej is the national drink of Ethiopia, generally made in the home for
family consumption and having a tradition supposedly going back to at
least the 4th Century.  It's quite unique and nearly impossible to exactly
duplicate here in the states.  T'ej recipes vary from family to family,
but the basic style comes from the use of a bitter extract from a native
Ethiopian tree, the Gesho.  The mead is an ideal pairing with the cuisine
of Ethopia, which is spicy hot and served communal style with thin rounds
of Injera bread.  According to Virginia Davis, "the honey-sweet, bitter, 
dry tone of T'ej is enhanced by the food."

The recipe is below -- any ideas or suggestions on a hop type that might
work well?  Yes, I know, the recipe doesn't say anything about yeasts.
Davis commented that either wild yeasts were used or someone in the
village kept a starter culture for communal use.

Thanks in advance for any help!


<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley at keynet.net



- -----------------------------------------[snip!]----------------------

   Utensils needed:  Medium cooking pot
                     3 gallon barrel or glass container
                  
   Ingredients:      32 oz. honey
                     1 gallon water
                     1 1/2 cups woody hops

   Mix water and honey in 3 gallon container.  Set aside in a warm room.
   After 3 days, put 6 cups of honey water in the medium cooking pot.  
   Bring to a boil and simmer over low heat for 15 minutes after adding 
   woody hops.  Set aside to cool.  Add mixture to 3 gallon container.
   Let stand for 5 days.  Remove hops using strainer.  Cover container
   for 15 to 20 days.  Store in cool location or put in bottles and
   refrigerate after filtering.  Serves 6 to 12.

   Variations of the recipe can call for: 

   Medium citron     -- peeled, sliced, seedless
   coffee beans      -- roasted, cooled and ground
   orange peels      -- 4 medium
   prunes            -- 3 pounds ripe
   banans            -- 6 medium

   The additional ingredients are added after the hops are removed and 
   before storing in the covered container for 15 to 20 days.

               "Traditional Ethiopian T'ej," by Virginia Davis
               _The Meadmakers Journal_ Fall 1988 p. 5.




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:11:20 -0600
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Indetifying people

Phil wants me to identify the people I mentioned, and he assumed that
they are HBD members.

You have to read what I wrote very carefully.

I didn't say they contribute to HBD: I said some of the names would be
familiar.  (None of those I mentioned actually particapates in this
forum.)

I didn't say the beers were "lousy;" I said they were almost all highly
hopped, highly alcoholic, or both.  In fact, if you like barley wines,
imperial stouts, and highly hopped IPA's, most would be classified as
very good or even excellent.  My point is this: these are not the kind
of beers that make for a good introduction to homebrewing for someone
who might be interested in the hobby.  Most beer drinkers are not into
those kinds of beers on a regular basis; it is an acquired taste.

Now, I did give enough clues for one of them, and since I will say that
I really liked the beer and found it to be in no way "lousy," I will
identify that one.  The creator of the India Black Ale, who could not
attend but sent the beer anyway, was Charlie Papazian.

- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us




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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:41:18 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: brewing books


Leland Predon asks about all-grain brewing books more up to date than
Papazian's.

A more general book with more brewing information is _The Complete Handbook
of Brewing_ by Miller.  Fairly good starting point. Miller's style is dryer
than Papazian's.

For more recipes you may like Noonan's _Seven Barrels Brewery Brewers
Handbook_: a nice mix of extract and all-grain recipes and sound brewing
practices.

More in depth is Noonan's _New Brewing Lager Beer_ which focuses on lagers
and decoction, but even if you largely ignore that is one of the best
sources of information for general all-grain brewing procedure and
ingredients. I think it is a fantastic book that is unfortunately overlooked
because of its title. Perhaps the best complete book combining theory and
practice for the all-grain brewer.

Stephen Ross
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:51:33 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: brewing books

Oops almost forgot:

Online book _How To Brew_ by John Palmer at

http://www.howtobrew.com/ 


Lots of great up-to-date info.


Stephen Ross
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:00:09 -0500
From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com>
Subject: Rennerian coordinates and coincidences??!?

Good day,

I trust this finds you all well and brewing / drinking great beer.

I am trilled to finally have appointed (or come to the knowledge of) a
Rennerian Coordinator.  After what seems like no time whatsoever on the
job, jason has made a post that sheds some light on what my (highly
sought after, sadly unknown) Rennerian location in the universe is.

If I understand the system correctly, then combining the fact that
Beverly Place, Shreveport, LA  is 902 miles southwest of Sciomeadows
Drive, Ann Arbor, MI with the belief (possibly misplaced) that due north
is Rennerian [0, XX], that would place central Shreveport at 218
degrees. If I understand it now, I reside at or around [902, 218] Ren.

As and aside, when I was scaling off the wall map in my office for
distance, my secretary asked if I was taking another trip.  I replied,
"No, I am plotting my relative distance from the center of the Home
(Craft) brewing universe; a guy named Jeff Renner."   To which she
responded, "Is that Lisa's husband or father?"  I said, "I don't know
who the hell Lisa is . . ."  "She's the center of the paper doll
universe, and she's from somewhere up in yankeeland.  I bet they're
related somehow.  You know how those creative types always click up
together."

Hhmmmmm . . . . . .

Brett A. Spivy
The Pinstripe Lounge
Stolen Cactus Brewery
Shreveport, LA  [902, 218] Ren.    -- I think.



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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:16:38 +0100
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.co.uk>
Subject: % Alcohol by volume calculation

British Customs & Excise use the following (and obviously require all 
breweries to use as well) for calculating ABV, hence the amount of 
duty payable.

OG - FG x 0.129

In each case with the gravity readings, just use the last two numbers

ie 1.056 (generally referred to in UK as 1056) would be 56

Hope this helps

Nigel
Guildford, UK


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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Pap

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

With all this Papazian content, you'd think this was an AHA publication
:-)

Though I am not a fan of the RDWHAHB mantra, and I am dismayed that
Charlie hasn't taken the time nor the task to update TCJOHB in light of a
plethora of new information in recent years, you have to give the guy
credit for a few things:

 1) He was one of the first very public,
    very vocal home brewing enthusiasts.
 2) He compiled what was available to 
    him in terms of brewing information,
    and made it available to anyone who 
    would lay down the price of the book 
    - until TCJOHB, there was precious 
    little out there to educate you in
    brewing.
 3) He formed the AHA/AOB which, for all 
    its past faults and "sins" does provide 
    a financial engine for the publication 
    of many a brewing book. Without 
    "brewers publications", a concept like
    the classis series may never even have 
    been conceived, let alone published.
 4) He seems to have had the business 
    acumen to keep this brewing machine
    of his afloat when all support seemed 
    to have been eroding away. Thankfully - 
    based on current trends, I believe we
    NEED a centrallized organization in the 
    US - an organization that the AHA is
    very quickly shaping itself into.

Based on several inputs, I've formed the opinion that CP is really no
longer interested in home brewing to the extent nor with the passion he
once was. He seems now to be concentrating on the professional side of the
business. Though disappointing to those that would like to have it
otherwise, it isn't a crime - what about any homebrewer that has become a
micro or pub brewer? Rob Moline? Micah Millspaw? George DePiro? Criminals
all? Nope. How about those that shifted from pure homebrewers to
manufacturers or marketers? Dan Listermann?  Mike O'Brien?  Lynne
O'Conner?  Jack Schmidling?  Nope again. The jury finds them innocent of
any crime.

I still recommend TCJOHB to new brewers, but I also recommend Burch,
Miller, Nachel, Noonan and others. Each has a slightly different
"religion" about our favorite issues; each has different approaches -
sometimes subtly so - to the same information. Each good to an extent.
Each arguable to an extent. All pretty much valid in getting you from
Point A to Point B - with varying results/levels of "success".

If Charlie's taking recommendations, I do recommend that, if not Charlie,
someone in the AHA/AOB continuum update TNCJOHB to remove or at least
discuss those obviously questionable practices (the gypsum additions with
no reference to the base nor target waters come to mind...) to improve
the reference quality of the book.

At least update the 1970's folk pics. Are those plaid pants in the
brewery?   ;-)

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday






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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:10 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Urea

>Whilst in an investigational study involving yeast nutrients, ...
<snip> 
>     "Please inform this brewer that urea based products are banned
>throughout most of the World for beverage alcohol. 
>They produce ethyl carbamates which are CARCINOGENIC.

Thanks for the info Rob.  Very helpful tidbit since I was about to start
formulating growth media for slants and plates with urea in them.  I will
probably refrain from doing so now.  Not that I'm worried much about the
concentrations that would make it into the final packaged product, it's just
one less possible "nasty" to be exposed to in the long run.

What about di-urea?  Or is that another conversation/spelling altogether?
<grin>

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net

Someplace over the Pacific and no idea where, relative to Jeff ;-)



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:52:04 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com>
Subject: re. Beer prices in Canada

One of the main differences between beer pricing in Canada and the US, at
least from my experience, is that the differential in price between
LaMolson and micros is much less pronounced here than south of the border.
This it seems to me doesnt mean that Canadian are more likely to drink
weisens, pale ales or barley wines, but alot more "transition" beers
brewed by micros. I think you could easily chose from 6 cream ales in
Toronto area beer stores, while our choice of hoppy ales is severely
limited. In many cases I think people want the look of ordering a micro,
without challenging their palates. 

Cheers Darryl in Toronto 

I'll leave it to Jason Henning (ps thanks for sending the barley wine this
way) to calculate my Rennerian coordinates.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:50:40 -0400
From: MAB <mabrooks at erols.com>
Subject: Chloramines 

For those interested, some information pertaining to Chloramines.

Part I

The use of chlorine combined with ammonia in the water treatment field
dates back to 1918.  There are three main forms of chloramine that are
of interest in water supplies:

1.  Monochloramine (NH2Cl) -  This is formed at higher pH's (usually
>7.0) and lower chlorine dosages (1:1 - 5:1 Cl2 - NH4+ by Wt.).  This is
the preferred form for potable water treatment.

2. Dichloramine (NHCl2) - This is formed at higher chlorine dosages (5:1
 - 7.6:1 Cl2 - NH4+ by Wt.).  Although pure dichloramine has about twice
the germicidal effectiveness as monochloramine it has a very noticeable
and disagreeable
taste and odor associated with its use, and thus is avoided (mostly) by
treatment plants .

3.  Nitrogen Trichloramine (NCl3) - This compound is highly volatile
(and explosive in oil form) and is formed only under unfavorable
conditions when chloraminating, i.e. use of Cl2 gas (which is being
phased out as it provides an unacceptable
risk to local communities if a leak or shipping accident should occur,
currently most water plants are now using 15% sodium hypochlorite).  It
is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever find NCl3 in their water
and would never know if they did, as
it requires  a chemical which isn't sold anymore to isolate it, and UV
spec to analyze it.

Chloramines (used water treatment) are created by first dosing the
treated water with Ammonia, then dosing with a precise amount of
Chlorine (usually in the form of NaOCl) to achieve a desired ratio.
Chloramination can be performed by first
chlorinating the water then adding the ammonia but this has
reprocussions...see below.

There are reasons for the application of either free chlorine or
chloramine in the water treatment field.  The use of HOCl (free
chlorine) has its benefits, as it is hands down the best (of the
chlorine specie) germicide for water treatment and it (as well as
monochloramine) allows a water authority to maintain a disinfectant
residual at the point of use (our homes).

But if free chlorine is much better germicide than chloramines, why
would water treatment plants prefer to disinfect with monochloramines?

Studies have shown that at low CT's (Concentration (of disinfectant) x
Time (of contact with disinfectant)) free chlorine is a much better
germicide then monochloramine, however, at longer contact times (say
45-60 minutes) monochloramine can be just as effective (on total
coliform kills) as free chlorine.  Dichloramine is more germicidal then
monochloramine, but, (as stated above) may cause taste and odor problems
in the finished water.

[Take note that, coliforms are considered an "indicator species", the
reason water authorities use coliform testing is .......... the presence
of coliforms in a water supply is supposed to alert the water authority
that the water may be contaminated
with waterborne pathogens.  Coliform testing is quick, cheap, and easy,
it does not, however, indicate the presence of the newly disccovered
"superbugs" (testing for which can be time consuming and costly) which
are causing the large scale outbreaks.    These "new" waterborne
pathogens pose a real and definite health hazard, and consumers must be
weary of ingesting them from contaminated public water supplies.
Monochloramine has been "labeled" by the EPA as a secondary disinfectant
as it cannot be used as a primary disinfectant (as free chlorine can)
for protozoans or many waterborne viruses.]

Again, why use chloramination?


see part II

Matt B.
Northern VA.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:51:34 -0400
From: MAB <mabrooks at erols.com>
Subject: Chloramines

Chloramines Part II

Why use chloramination?

The use of free chlorine for water treatment disinfection can result in
THM (Trihalomethane) formation.  THM concentrations in potable water
supplies are set at 0.05 mg/L (I believe) and enforced by the EPA.   If
a water treatment plant has a
problem with high concentrations of humic and fulvic acids in their
source water (quite common for surface runoff reservoirs) it equates to
a THM formation potential for the finished water.  Because of the EPA
limits on THM's, water treatment plants
are "forced" to use monochloramines as a disinfectant.  Monochloramine
use does not result in THM formation, as is the case with free chlorine,
and thus allows the water authority to meet the EPA THM standard.

I do not feel that it is a "wise" decision on the part of the EPA to set
such low limits for THM's.  Studies of THM's in drinking water have
never shown a correlation with increased risk of cancer at such low
concentrations in water.  Waterborne
pathogens (those not inactivated by the use of monochloramine) are
directly responsible for illness and even death of those exposed
(reference recent outbreak's throughout the U.S. and abroad).  Deaths
from waterborne pathogens will likely
escalate in the years to come as water supplies become increasingly more
contaminated.  I promote the use of Free Chlorine residuals for
disinfection of drinking water (as well as better filtration practices,
and testing protocols for
waterborne pathogens).  THM concentrations should remain a secondary
concern until research sheds some new light on these compounds and their
relationship to cancer at such minuscule concentrations in drinking
water.



As far as free chlorine and chloramine removal for brewing purposes here
are some methods.......

Aeration-
Undissociated free chlorine (HOCl) (this may come as a surprise to some)
is not  removed by aeration.  In water of a high pH (>8.5) where OCl-
dominates, one can "smell" the chlorine, this odor is really chlorine
monoxide (OCl-).  While there is
no loss of HOCl, total chlorine will dissipate due to the loss of the
OCl-.  Keep raising the pH (10-11) and it will go away with agitation.

Chloramines are lost in aeration, but the loss is minimal, 10-15% for
monochloramine, up to 20% for dichloramine.

Detention Time -
Depletion of chlorine residual in a vessel (brew pot) is a function of
normal die-away (defined as the continuation of the oxidation reaction
of chlorine).  This proceeds somewhat slowly 2.0 - 2.5 mg/L in 24 hours.

U.V Light-
UV depletes only free chlorine, chloramines are fairly stable in
sunlight.  Factors affecting this decay are:  Location from the equator
and distance above sea level.

GAC (Granular Activated Carbon)-
By far, the most reliable, effective and least costly means for a
homebrewer to remove chlorine and clean up a water for brewing purposes.
GAC will remove free chlorine and combined chlorine.  Free chlorine
destroys GAC and will have to be
replaced eventually, combined chlorine saturates GAC and will have to be
regenerated....given that not many people have furnaces in which to
regenerate carbon (or the knowledge of how to do it properly), I would
recommend just replacing it when it is exhausted/saturated.  Contact
time is critical when using a GAC bed to remove chlorine, and one must
be sure the flow rate through the bed is sufficiently slow enough to
ensure removal of the chlorine specie.  A post GAC filter is not a bad
idea as it will remove any fines that inevitably are released from the
GAC.

Chemical Dechlorination-
Although this method is quite feasible I don't think it is suitable for
the homebrewer.  If you are interested, I've listed some available
chemicals for dechlorination:

Hydrogen Peroxide - works only on free chlorine and is not that cost
efficient.

Ferrous Sulfate - will react with all chlorine forms to produce a ferric
hydroxide, again not very cost efficient.

Sodium Thiosulfate- get it a the fish store,  not very cost efficient,
slow to work.

Sodium Bisulfate- get it at a chemical supply company, need 1.46 part
for every part of Chlorine.

Sodium Metabisulfite-  get it at a chemical supply company, need 1.34
parts for every part Chlorine.

Sulfur Dioxide - Gaseous form - you cant buy the stuff for personal use,
and its use is being phased out at plants for the same reason as
chlorine gas.....very hazardous.

Sodium thiosulfate and all the Sulfite methods of chlorine removal will
consume some alkalinity as part of the dechlorination reaction.

This concludes my discussion, direct appropriate questions to the HBD,
side bar questions to me.

Matt B.
Northern VA.



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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:17:30 +0200
From: Arnaud VIEZ <aviez at teaser.fr>
Subject: cost of beers in France / wort aeration

Hello everybody,


Ken Miller wrote :

>Could a few brewers from outside the US give us an idea of what a case
of
>Macro and Micro beer costs locally?  This could give us an idea of the
>relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries.

I can give some data from France ('Carrefour' supermarket in Paris area)
:

Kronenbourg (very bad one) 10x25 cl = 21,60FF
Kro 1664 (idem) 6x25 cl = 18,95FF
Kanterbrau (idem) 10x25 cl = 18,35FF
Stella (belgian Pils, somewhat better) 10x25 cl = 22,05FF
Leffe blonde 12x25 cl = 43,55FF
Heineken 6x25 cl = 18,55FF
Jenlain (french, biere de garde) 75 cl = 8,45FF
Orval (belgian trappist) 33 cl = 9,30FF
Bud 50 cl = 7,90FF
Duvel 33 cl = 8,85FF
Chimay red 33 cl = 9,20FF
Westmalle tripel (yum!) 33cl = 9,90FF
Erdingen (german) 50 cl = 10,25FF

Regarding to the motivations of homebrewers around here, I have never
seen anybody brewing to get low-cost beer. Personally, I do it only for
fun and because I am a beer lover.
- -----------------------------------------------------------

Lou Heavner wrote :

>The thing that will have a bigger and more short term impact on your
>beer is contamination with bacteria or wild yeast.  One of the risks
>of aeration/oxygenation is that wort/beer spoilers could ride along
>with the air.  One of the risks of not aerating is that your yeast
>won't be as vital or prolific and may lose the battle to contaminants
>which are difficult to avoid in most homebreweries.  Be careful with
>how to aerate the wort.

But how do you aerate? I read about pouring the cool wort in the
fermenter,
shaking well the fermenter, etc... What is the best -and safer- method?


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:08:49 -0400
From: br at triagemusic.com (B.R. Rolya)
Subject: pomme frites/koeln

Dave Burley writes:

>Pomme Frites may be made with lard in some places to account for their
>excellence, but I believe also an HBDer has commented that he sneaked a
>peek at a drum in back of a Belgian PF wagon and the barrel said "beef fat"
>( in French, o fcourse). Just like McD used to use until they were caught
>up in the vegetable oil/no animal fat hysteria like the rest of this
>country

As a horse-loving child growing up in Belgium, school mates used to taunt
me with the fact that the best frites were made with horse fat.  I heartily
contradicted them (assuming that some other animal fat was responsible) but
given the amount of butchers that still sell horse meat, I always
wondered...

- -----

Just having returned the other day from my annual business trip to Koeln
(it's rough doing business in a country where a koelsch is an appropriate
beverage at 11 am meetings at the convention center....), I thought I'd add
on to the info already provided.  I don't have my notes with me so I am
unable to provide exact directions right now; most of the info is available
in Michael Jackson or email me for more info.

My personal favorites are Frueh and Malzmuehle; both have restaurants (as
do most of the main breweries).  The fare is straightforward German
cuisine: heavy on the meat.  While not my favorite beer, Kueppers does have
a nice beer garden south of the Dom.  It's an easy ride on the tram (#15 if
I recall correctly) or a pleasant bike ride along the Rhine.  They also
have a brewing museum.  It's one of the few places where you can get a
wiess (an unfiltered koelsch NOT to be confused with a weiss beer).

There is also a brewpub (in the american sense of showcasing off brewing
equipment) right off of Barbarossaplatz called Weiss Brau.  This past
weekend they had a koelsch, a weiss, and a schwartz on tap.

I've found that most Germans outside of Koeln don't like the beer at all.
They call it headache beer but I always point out that if you drink enough
of any beer it'll give you a headache!  My friend and I have been slowly
converting the youth of Germany.  For the past few years, we've been known
at the convention as the crazy Americans who know more about beer than
Germans.  Colleagues will show up with beer from one stand or another's
hospitality fridge and ask us what we think.  I don't know if I should feel
flattered or like a novelty act in a zoo!


 -BR
Malted Barley Appreciation Society
New York
http://hbd.org/mbas/





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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:40:24 GMT
From: "Leland Predon" <happy_godzilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks

Thank you to everyone who replied to my message about brewing books. I'll 
post my results of my first all grain......
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:59:33 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Jasmine Rice

Larry O'Mahoney writes...

BTW, I used Jasmine rice, an Oriental variety with a subtle clover-like
flavor. If it turns out well I'll let the HBD know.

- ----------------------------------------------------------


       Bravo Larry! This is a variety of rice that I've been interested
in trying in a mash myself but never had the courage to do so...
       Every time my SO cooks Asian food, she steams Jasmine
rice in our electric rice cooker, and the aroma that emanates
from it is a pungent combination of floral and nutty.
       One suspects that it would have to lend some sort
of interesting character to the finished beer, maybe in
some sort of Pale Lager, Blond Ale , Pilsner or Belgian Ale perhaps??
       Please do let us all know what it's like when your beer
is ready, as I'd definitely be interested.
       I'm actually quite surprised that no-one has tried it yet!!
Given the strange grains that people tend to use.

Warren L. White, Melbourne Australia
4000kms South of Asia, so rice is plentiful!
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:17:49 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Real Beer Page

As we have opened our E-tail store at listermann.com, the advertizing
manager at the Real Beer Pages has asked me to consider advertizing there. 
I don't recall seeing anyone here mention consulting this site, but I don't
doubt that many of you have visited it.  I am looking for feedback and
opinions regarding it.  How often do you check it out and have you linked
to the E-tail sites?

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com


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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:13:54 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Glass etched

Hey every one,
I went ahead and tried it. 'twasn't pretty, but it worked pisser! I took an
old .10 (US) a (US) dozen (just in case there's an difference ...ie: one US
dozen converts to 10.3 Canadian dozen:>) Anyway, I used my dremel on the
sucker. a brown cone shaped aluminum oxide bit. I shakily etched the letters
"BC" in the bottom (BadCat is the brewery). Like I said, "twasn't pretty. The
streams of swirling bubbles didn't stop though! nice and steady, to the end.
They kept a little .25 in. (US) head on the beer all the way down. My throat
seems fine too (I did wash it out first!). And SWMBO doesn't think the HBD is
a constructive use of my time!

AP.
Better beer through power tools.


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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:03:16 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: re: IBU assays and spectrophotometers (cat: quite twoeey)

Louis Bonham gives the correct procedure for bitterness analysis in
beers, and even suggests getting your own (either personally or
collectively) spectrophotometer.

While this is by no means necessary for making good beer, "specs" are
pretty neat toys, and you can find other uses for them.

I might point out one thing, particularly if you are planning on buying
a used one:

The frequency used in this analysis is bumping into ultra voilet light
and as I understand it, not EVERY spectrophotometer is geared to look
into this range.

So giving the spec: 275 nanometers, or 2750 angstroms (depending how
they like to express there units) or asking the simple question: "Does
it do ultra-violet?" before purchasing, could be a good idea.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:43:43 +0100
From: "Matt and/or Hazel Tolley" <tolmh at tpg.com.au>
Subject: Thanks!

Many, many thanks for the heap of replies I got from Aussies and those
abroad re my first brew.

The general consensus seems to be:

 - Don't put sterilising solution in your airlock - use distilled water or
vodka (better taste it first to make sure it's ok...:>);
 - Don't put your airlock in until your fermenter is where you want it :) ;
 - I can make smaller brews if I recalculate the AAUs and IBUs, although
it's just as easy to brew big, inflict your losses on your mates and
relatives and hoard your successes;
 - Keep the Swedish Chef impersonations to a minimum while stirring a
cooling wort;
 - Hot break looks like something from the Aliens movies;
 - You can bulk prime a primary, but a newbie like me should probably walk
before he can run and get a secondary or bottle prime;
 - I should go see Chicken Run.

I now know that I didn't see anything like a hot break while boiling my
brew, and that this was probably because Coopers already boiled the crap out
of what was in the cans already, so their were no/very few proteins to
precipitate out.  Something to look forward to!

I received many different responses to my OG concerns - using the
weights/volumes I supplied in my previous post, I got calculations for OG
ranging from 1.040 to 1.065!  What's the most popular method for
guesstimating OG from an ingredients list?  Do I need to make any special
considerations when using Australian ingredients?  Mental note - test
hydrometer in pure water just in case!

Speaking of differences in ingredients, I've started reading about all-grain
brewing (something I'll consider when I've got a few more extracts under my
belt an dhave watched a demo or two at the brewshop!).  Laurie Strachan
advises that Aussies need only concern themselves with infusion mashing and
not worry overly about step and decoction mashing, as out malts are 'fully
modified', whereas those in the US are 'under-modified'.  True or false?
What will happen in an infusion mash if I use a mixture of local and
imported ingredients (like Cara-pils)?

My brew seems to be proceeding nicely - airlock bubbling has started to slow
noticeably (end of day 5), temp was a steady 15-16oC. The cupboard smells
great, and the cat loves the bubbling sounds (thinking of calling it 'Closet
Monster Ale'!).  I'll leave it for the full two weeks (darn you, John P - I
wanna drink it NOW) then bottle prime.

Thanks again!

Cheers!
 ...Matt...



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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:24:46 -0400
From: Guy Mason <guy.mason at matrixone.com>
Subject: Re:  probably the world's finest homebrew supply

Lynne,

I have to take some issue with your statements, but first let me say that I 
have
been treated fairly, albeit slowly by St. Pats.  I recently placed an order 
for some
hardware that was unavailable at my local shop.  The order that arrived at 
my home
was completely wrong, but hey everyone makes mistakes right?  I called St. Pats
and explained the situation and was told someone would get back to me soon.  A
week later I called again as no one had called me, in the mean time I had 
shipped
back the original order at my own expense as requested.  Now the order was 
going
to be shipped a second time, which arrived at my home with the wrong parts 
again.
Again I call and am told someone will get back to me, again no one did.  I 
e-mailed St.
Pats and Lynne got involved, she graciously agreed to send the missing 
pieces of my
order and I should keep whatever erroneous parts were in the previous order 
(still waiting
for the shipment).

Now I didn't run screaming "St. Pats sucks!!!" to the HBD or rcb because 
the situation
was being handled, but to see a defense of :

"HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY ORDERED
FROM ST PATS HAVE LODGED A COMPLAINT ON ALL FORUMS COMBINED?  I can
honestly only think of 5 of which 2 are legitimate.  I shipped over
15,000 boxes in the past year alone and well over a 50,000 during the period in
which these complaints appeared."

I could very well legitimately complaint about shipping a wrong order back 
at my own expense
but I don't see the need to shout it out on the 'Net.  So Lynne, what is 
your real complaint ratio?
Not just those who post on the 'Net?  I would assume it is still pretty 
low, but don't try and slide one
by because not everyone posts problems to the 'Net.

Just my 2 cents, I'll still use St. Pats when needed.

Guy Mason



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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:21:33 -0500
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu>
Subject: Regarding St. Pat's Claim on malt donation...

>From: "Lynne O'Connor" <stpats at bga.com>
>My offer of 1500 lbs to the Dixie Cup this year was also refused.

Lynne,
As the Dixie Cup coordinator, I have to say that if you made an offer 
then I never heard it.  Who did you offer it to?  Given that we 
haven't even started our donation effort, I'm kind of surprised to 
hear we've refused anything.  Feel free to e-mail me off line if 
you're really interested in contributing.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/


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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:41:02 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: RE: Cooler manifold

Fred Johnson wrote me and asked:

>I read with interest your recent post to the HBD regarding your manifold
for
>the cooler.  However, there is no description of the "bulkhead fitting".
>That is, how have you converted the cooler's drain?

This was done on purpose because if I told this to everyone, then I would
have divulged my greatest of all secrets and would no longer be looked upon
as the Mr. Wizard of the Brewery ;-)  Actually, I'll post this one to the
HBD as it may help someone else.

The amount of time I have spent standing in front of the pipefitting section
of the hardware store staring blankly, with drool running down my chin and
smoke billowing from my ears, can be counted in hours now.  Maybe even days.
It's not really a matter of finding a solution - easy enough if you have
your own machine shop.  It's a matter of rigging what's available to you at
the time into a workable solution that's the trick!  You can tell who the
engineers are:  Their projects may look like hell, but they work great ;-)
This one took me a while and may not work for every cooler.  It worked for
my 5 gallon Igloo and my 12 gallon Coleman.

There is a brass adapter (carried by HomeDepot) that has a 1/2" ( or
therabouts ) male pipe thread on one end and a standard garden hose
connector on the other end.  The pipe thread end was a perfect fit for the
hole in the cooler and was long enough to span the depth of the bulkead and
give a 1/2"  brass ball valve something to thread on to on the outside of
the cooler.  I also had to give the connector a little more support around
the bulkhead hole because there just wasn't enough "meat" on the bulkead to
allow sufficient tightening of the the ball valve and adapter to stop leaks.
If you can find a washer big enough to slip on the adapter (or can drill one
out) pop one on and then slip on a neoprene O ring.  If you can't find a
washer (I couldn't) then you need to go to the electrical section of the
store and buy one of those metal electrical box adapter thingos.  They're
the metal rings that change the size of the knockout holes and I have no
clue as to their official name.  They work great and have a little bit of a
contour to them that will fit with the O-ring perfectly.  

Now somebody will probably have a sook about the use of those electrical box
adapter thingos in a low pH mash and wonder what kind of effects this
unknown metal will have on different characteristics of their beer or even
their overall health.  Stuff a sock in it and have a beer!  I think they're
mostly cheap aluminum, but you can probably get galvanized ones too.

I'll have to update the website with new pics.  For now, pardon my ASCII
art:
                                          ________
                                          ||
    / / / /         |   |    |  ------------|
   / / / / ///////  |   |    |              |
  / / / /           |   |    |  ---------|  |
                                         |  |
        ^           ^   ^    ^       ^
        |           |   |    |       |
   Garden Hose      |   |    |
   to MPT adapter   |   |    |       Ball valve
                    |   |    |
                    |   |    ----Bulkhead   
                    |   ---------O-Ring
                    -------------Washer


Additional note:  Instead of just shoving one end of a plastic tube into the
opening of your pipe manifold and the other into the opening of the hose
adapter, attach the hose to a female garden hose connector with a male barb
not worry about knocking it loose when you stir your mash.  I did this last
week by mistake - big mess!  It also allows you to disconnect the hose and
manifold for cleaning.  I guess I have a Continuous Process Improvement
program going on in my home brewery, because every time I brew there's
always one little tweak I need to do to make it better than last time.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:47:10 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Homebrew club? YES!

I just want to spend a few moments praising the idea of homebrew 
clubs, and illustrate the advantages of being a member.

Soon after the NHC in Detroit, our own Jethro Gump brought back the 
Holy Grail (in my opinion): A bottle of CAP made by Jeff Renner.

Let me tell you, it was marvelous. It tastes nothing like my own 
version, but that is what homebrewing is about. (Isn't it?) Hundreds 
have probably already made CAP from Jeff's recipe. I'd like to see 
CAP as next year's Big Brew recipe. Of course, that is only because I 
like it, and like making it. Maybe THAT is what homebrewing is about 
(or is it?)

We also had the distinct privilege of all wetting our lips with a 
single nip bottle of the celebratory mead. I still don't know how 
everyone got a taste, but I did, and as swan songs go, this was a 
true delight. And very fitting. The homebrew world already misses 
Bill Pfeiffer.

But until Ames, IA got its own homebrew club, there was only a very 
slim chance of me ever tasting an original CAP. And precisely a zero 
chance of me getting my lips on one of the finest meads I've ever 
tasted. Thanks Rob and Jeff and the NHC.

We also had a night (early in the infancy of the club) where every 
beer sampled was a Belgian of some sort. WE had gueze, lambic, 
dubbels, a trippel, and several flavor variants (foremost peche and 
kriek). Others came away from that night invoking God to help them 
get the "taste of that horrible stuff" out of their mouths.

I loved it. There is no way I would have plunked down the necessary 
cash to sample all of those beers on my own. In fact I still feel 
that way after every meeting. I feel like I am taking away much more 
than I could ever put back. And I felt like I know a few things about 
brewing before joining.

We were even "asked" to never come back to our original meeting place 
because the owner of the space viewed us as bootleggers. But, we 
survived. Ours is a small club, and maybe that's why it works so 
well. (If only my PhD dissertation was on the topic of small group 
interactions....damn.)

So, my suggestion to anyone getting into homebrewing is to get 
involved with a club, try every different style of beer that is 
available, and basically stay active. Learn about styles, and become 
attuned to the subtle differences between substyles. Become informed 
about your new hobby, and it will serve you well.

Any negative reaction to this post will be silently ignored.

Jeff Kenton
jkenton at iastate.edu


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