---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Corporate Content Filters And The HBD (The Home Brew Digest)
  Will the real Boddingtons please stand up! (Brad McMahon)
  Promash (Thomas Rohner)
  Looking for a Bass Clone (Ballsacius)
  re: Alaskan Brewing Company recipes ("Patrick Michael Flahie")
  Promash and double milling ("pksmith_morin")
  O2 purging, covered boils and automation ("Campbell, Paul R SSI-ISEP-3")
  O2 Permeability ("A. J.")
  Re: Sponsorship (Joel Plutchak)
  100% Wheat Beers (Dan Listermann)
  Session Beer (Doug Hurst)
  RRRRRice hulls to the rescue ("Spies, Jay")
  It's a miracle! (Jim Liddil)
  plastics/cooling (Jim Liddil)
  Chest freezer condensation (fridgeguy)
  Sponsorship/tempering malt ("Dave Hinrichs")
  Ion exchange (Dave Burley)
  Race Track Lids ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  High precision scale (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Yeast Culture Questions... ("dr smith")
  RE: Sponsorship - La Borde ("Donald D. Lake")
  Heat transfer/thermodynamics/fluid, and honey (kevin m mueller)
  Prechilling ("Charles R. Stewart")
  mash hopping (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Contradictory Advice--and a proposal (BrewInfo)
  American Brewer ("Richard Sieben")
  GABF (EdgeAle)
  Pro Mash (Darla Elsken)
  World Brewers Forum (Roger Whyman)
  mash hopping (Roger Whyman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:00:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Home Brew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: Corporate Content Filters And The HBD


Many corporations are now using "content filters" on incoming mail. I have
already had to unsubscribe all subscribers within two companies because
certain keywords triggered their filters, dumping the Digest into email
administrator's mail boxes rather than the intended recipient. Not only is
this a hassle for the Janitors, it is potentially devastating to those
whose mail has been intercepted.

Please contain your exuberance in your writings. Certain words for
excrement, biological functions and body parts are triggering these
filters when found in scanning the HBD. There's really no need at all to
contain these terms in your writings. We, the Janitors, have been
particularly lax of late in enforcing the "family friendly" status of the
Digest. In an effort to prevent even more subscribers from being
unexpectantly exposed to their management, the Janitors will attempt to
better screen posts to contain such violations of good taste. (Side note:
If subscribing to the HBD is a violation of your corporate internet usage
policy, I advise you not to. I don't wish the HBD to be responsible for
anyone receiving disciplinary action; however, if such action
precipitates, it is your own responsibility.) If we aren't successful, the
rush of corporations incorporating content filters in their inbound email
systems will force us to incorporate similar to automatically scan and
refuse any post containing such terms.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

- -- 
Cheers!

The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff




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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:57:49 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Will the real Boddingtons please stand up!


Warren White wrote:

>>Close but no Cigar Brad McMahon

Awww :-(

>The Wheeler and Protz recipe you list above would be for an approximation of 
>Boddingtons Cask-Conditioned Real Ale
>not the tasteless garbage in the all-conquering widget can and keg served 
>via the dreaded nitrogen dispense (yuuuckkk) don't get me started!

Yep, I concede on that point. I had actually forgotten that Boddingtons
does
come in cask form. I had seen it in a pub when I was in the UK a couple
of
months back, but I didn't actually try it as there were far more
interesting
cask beers which demanded my attention.
Greg was most probably referring to the keggiflade version by his
description
though - which as you read in yesterdays HBD, he is adjusting the
bitterness
back down to a closer approximation of what his wife prefers.

> what sets it apart from most of 
>it's bretheren is that appearance-wise it is far paler in its colour and 
>tarter in its finish than the norm, probably a fair starting point as a 
>session beer for the Real Ale Virgin or Lager Lout.

In the UK there is a surge of ales that are as pale or even paler at
the moment. Particularly so when breweries release their "summer" beers.
As you say, many of these are to lure the lager or nitrobeer drinker
towards real ale. There has been a downturn in real ale drinking lately
but the good news is most breweries are trying to increase their sales
of real ale. Theakstons Cool Cask, released this year, is a case in
point, a real ale brewed to be served at 10C, backed by lots of
advertising, to ween people off of Caffreys et al and on to beers with 
flavour.

>The Wheeler and Protz recipe seems pretty much on the mark for a Cask 
>Boddingtons Clone, though I'd say that they're being a little 
>modest/flattering? with the sugar content, you could probably stretch it to 
>about 10% IMHO.

You probably could but I'd prefer it with that little more mouthfeel.
The racking gravity would probably be below 1.007 if you increased the
sugar
level. After saying that, Adnams Bitter is a very nice beer and of a
similar
gravity and a higher sugar level (about 12%).

> It also could almost be made with the absence of or very 
>little Crystal Malt if any were to be used keep it to the lightest.

A pale crystal like Caramunich would work well I think. I would want
some
crystal sweetness in the beer rather than use just pale malt and sugar.

>Someone please remember the name of the Pub???!!!
Sorry. Can't help you there? What's the nearest tube station?

Cheers,
Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:33:48 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at usa.net>
Subject: Promash

Hi together
i'm using Promash for about a year now. I'm very pleased with it.
I got some minor updates in that time. For free i must say.
I installed them although i never encountered a bug.
We (that is "Brauclub Altstaetten" in Switzerland) use it for
calculations,
receipe formulations hops malt water etc. and of course as our brewlog.
We brew all-grain and have very consistent results in lager as well as
ale brewing.
It comes with a well stocked database off common ingredients, so you
don't have to
type them in yourself. You can add your own ingredients as well.
When i started my brewing i bought a couple different brewing progs, but
none was
to my satisfaction. This was 4 years ago, so i don't know how they
improved.
One of these even had a labeldesigner built in, but as i see it almost
everyone with
a PC has a coreldraw or some other fullblown graphics program. So why
invent the
wheel again.
And at 25$ it's a real catch. The people who program it really care for
brewing
and brewers.
So i really recommend it!

Good brewing guys

Thomas



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:01:00 EDT
From: Ballsacius at aol.com
Subject: Looking for a Bass Clone

I am an all-grain brewer and a friend of mine has asked me to supply the 
homebrew for his reception at his wedding. I have never tried one and am in a 
bit  of a bind. If anyone has a tried and true recipe that would get me 
fairly close, I would appreciate it. Private e-mail okay. Thanks!

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Downingtown, PA
Ballsacius at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:50:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Patrick Michael Flahie" <flahiepa at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: re: Alaskan Brewing Company recipes


In HBD #3440, Scott Snyder asks for recipes for Alaskan Brewing
Company beers.  The book "North American Clone Brews" (Scott R.
Russell, Storey Books, ISBN 1-58017-246-6) has recipes for
both Alaskan Amber and Alaskan Smoked Porter.  All recipes in the
book have directions for extract, partial-mash, and all-grain.
I have not attempted anything from this book yet, and I'm hoping
other HBD'ers who have can chime in about its accuracy.

Hope this helps.

Patrick Flahie
Jackson, Michigan


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:02:50 -0500
From: "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin at email.msn.com>
Subject: Promash and double milling

Shane asks for an opinion on Promash.  It's been written about before, but I
can offer my unqualified support for the product.  It's database(s) are
extensive, allowing for  flexible recipe formulation; it is in short a great
workhorse of a brewing program.  The designer (Jeffrey Donovan) has been
extremely generous with upgrades, etc., and to my knowledge has included as
much user input as possible to generate newer versions.  For the money I would
recommend it highly.  I have no official connection to the product.

***************

A lot of talk about the benefits of double milling.  I understand the fun
involved in replicating a known commercial practice and if it helps, great,
part of the method mix in making great beer.

In my own practice, I have not found a two-pass grind to be necessary - save
the flames, please, it's been gone over before, but I achieve a 95% efficiency
using a set mill-gap.

I am really speaking to newer brewers who may think that they need to go out
and buy an adjustable mill in order to get a satisfactory brew.  For these
folks, who are frustrated and suffering from low yields and efficiencies, I
would look to other variables first, namely:

What is the quality of your raw material - fresh, plump 2-row, moderately thin
husk, or is it stale, mealy (bite it - mush or "snap") and "anorexic?"

Careful recirculation?  I recirculate for twenty minutes, and do so at the
rate of about 1 pint/minute.  At Goose Island, where I work, the recirc
proceeds for about 40 minutes.

Slow, careful runoff?  My (14 gallon) runoff goes 90 minutes, or slightly
over.

Additionally (again, save the flames, it's been gone over before), I do not
run a constant sparge, but rather do it in "bursts" and believe that this
method effects a wort "pump" of sorts, realizing more extract.  Please e-mail
me privately if you want more on this technique, or search the archives for
"burst sparging."  It is a common commercial method, and I saw my efficiency
jump dramatically on using it.

In essence I am a cheap bastard, and although I initially went through a
period where I wanted to go out an buy the latest (you name it), and included
wildly complicated malt bills, for a long time now I have wanted to see what I
can achieve with utter simplicity - (religiously) careful attention to basic
details in technique and materials.

Whatever works.

Cheers,

Paul




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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:08:23 +0200
From: "Campbell, Paul R SSI-ISEP-3" <Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com>
Subject: O2 purging, covered boils and automation

In HBD #3439 C.D. Pritchard wrote:
"especially since I rack the brew into the purged vessel slowly (surface
turbulance greatly increases O2 pickup)."

I can't help wondering how this ties in with the 'cap on foam theory' for
reducing head space oxygen when bottling. Surely we can assist in reducing
O2 in the destination vessel by agitating out the CO2 of the solution??
I've  done it by accident with no apparent adverse effects.
- ---------
On boiling pots with the lid on. Tried it last weekend (5/6 covered). My
wort looks OK, and the evaporation rate was reduced (I also lowered the
heat from the normal full-on setting for good measure). Will report back
when the final product is sampled...
- ---------
On a more humourous note an ideal control circuit came to mind while reading
the discussion on control circuits (old AT computers to PICs and STAMPs).
Why not use the CPU and driver boards from an old '70s pinball machine!!!
The driver board comes ready equipted to fire several solenoids; the
latter being supplied as part of the source machine (cheaper than you
think in scrap condition)! Advanced tinkerers only please ;)

Ah, beer and pinball, the ultimate combination......

Paul Campbell
Back up and brewing in Glen Esk, Scotland


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:34:55 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: O2 Permeability

Dan Schultz asks " What am I missing here?". One thing that is missing
from the permeation equation is any consideration of the difference in
partial pressure of oxygen on either side of the wall. This _has_ to be
a factor and the rate of flow must be proportional to it. Thus I suspect
the formula got mis-transcribed.



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:21:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Sponsorship

In HBD #3440, "AYOTTE, ROGER C" writes:
>I think the HBD should raise money like all good homebrewing 
>organizations, have a homebrew contest!  At $5 per entry there is 
>good money to be had. 

   If anyone thinks putting on a homebrew competition at
$5/entry is a huge moneymaking proposition, I've got some
great investment opportunities available.  Just send me
your capital and I'll sink^H^H^H^Hinvest it in all sorts
of similar great deals.
   Truth is, it takes lots of time and cash to organize a
competition.  Our little competition here always teeters on
the edge of breaking even, and has occasionally fallen over
the precipice.  Unless you can manage to get just about
everything donated, including ribbons/medals, food for judges,
duplication fees for forms, etc., it just ain't easy to
recoup the costs.  And of course if you're already getting
a bunch of stuff donated, just hold a big HDB raffle.  I'll
donate some beer for the organizers.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Losing money hand over beer-mug in East-central Illinois



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:23:14 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: 100% Wheat Beers

Mike Proffit ( mproffit at offo2.epa.state.oh.us) asks about making 100% wheat
beers for a friend who is allergic to barley.  I have made both 100% wheat
and 100% rye beers using rice hulls as a lautering aid.  They work great! 
I have found that using about 15% of the grain bill's wieght in rice hulls
seems to lauter just fine.  The rice hulls do not seem to contribute
anything to the flavor or extract.

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com

Check out our new E-tail site at www.listermann.com


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:55:03 -0500
From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Session Beer

I have two completely unrelated questions to throw out to the collective.  

Could someone please enlighten me as to the meaning of "Session" as in the
phrase  "... makes a good session beer"?

And secondly, is there anyone who has any information about the Homebrew
Publicity Campaign that was organized by the late Brewing Techniques people?
I sent email to the listed address but it was returned undeliverable.  I
know that BT is gone but the web site states the following:

"...The Homebrew Publicity Campaign (HPC) is unaffected by the closure of
Brewing Techniques (for information about the HPC, consult our web page:
http://brewingtechniques.com/hpc.html ).  The Homebrew Publicity Campaign
Corporation exists as a separate, nonprofit entity, with funds in a
separate, secure bank account...."

I am interested in the idea of promoting craft beer and home beer making to
the general public in the Chicago area and this sounds like a very good way
to do so.   If anyone has any info or was involved in the campaign please
let me know.

Thanks,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:03:45 -0400
From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: RRRRRice hulls to the rescue

All -

Mike Proffitt asks how to do an all grain 100% wheat mash without it turning
into Plaster-of-Paris...

Rice hulls, chief, and lots of 'em.  I've made 100% wheat mashes before, and
with the addition of about 20 - 30% of the grist being rice hulls, the
sparge flows normally.  I use about 5 pounds of rice hulls for 20 lbs of
wheat malt in my 100% wheat Weizen, and the sparge bumps along swimmingly...
Just be sure to mix the grist well before your dough in and stir well
afterward to ensure a uniform mash composition, the hulls tend to be floaty.

I've since cut back to 50% wheat, 50% barley, but that was for flavor
considerations, not sparging ones...  BTW, rice hulls are a filter medium
only, you can leave them out of any gravity or flavor calculations.

HTH,

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore MD


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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:18:54 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: It's a miracle!

The apparition of the Virgin Mary has appeared in the fallen krausen foam
of my recent batch of trappist ale! Surely there are none believers out
there.  But one must have faith in this mystical event. I have set up a
shrine with candles in beer bottles surrounding the apparition.

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:46:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: plastics/cooling

Water bottles made of polycarbonate can be used if treated correctly.
First PC can be autoclaved.  So you can simply pour boiling water in the
bottle to sanitize it.  Or autoclave if you have a big one. :-)

Keep in mind that PC develops crazing over time and this is acclerated by
high pH solutions.  So do not soak your bottles in bleach, NaOH or other
high pH solutions for longer than a few minutes.  You can follow this with
an acid rinse to remove grunge.  I use a water jet wand to blast the
majority of
stuff loose.  

Because they craze overtime (like all PC) you need to keep an eye on them.
but they are relatively cheap.  And for me this is better than the various
stories of lacerations from glass bottles.

Yes all plastics have various degrees of gas permeabiltity.  But keep in
in mind that the largest amount of gas is going to leak at the seal
between the container and the closer, not through the walls of the
container.

When I lived in Arizona I used to freeze gallon milk jugs full of water.
Then I used a swamp cooler pump and basin to recirculate this through my
immersion chiller.  As the ice melted I removed water and put it in 5
gallon buckets to water the plants with.  Excess heat is no longer a
problem here in CT.

Jim Liddil  North Haven, CT



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:49:15 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Chest freezer condensation

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #3440, Glen Pannicke asked for help with his moldy chest
freezer.

 As many of you are aware, I recently constructed a cold room for beer
serving and storage. I am very pleased with the results of my efforts
and have *no* moisture problem in the room. In fact, it removes about
a pint of condensate per week from the air inside and deposits in into
a two liter catch bottle.

 Before this I used a chest freezer equipped with a collar and two
taps for serving and storage. I used a second chest freezer for
fermenting, lagering and storage. The only mold problem I found was in
the ferm/lager freezer where airlocks bubbled and I had a few spills
from a cobra tap I used to sample from the kegs inside. I think the
beer spillage had more to do with mold accumulation than anything
else. My serving/storage freezer stayed relatively clean and dry.

I believe several factors play a role in my success:

My freezers are/were located in a cool, relatively dry basement.

I wash the freezer interiors with Lysol disinfectant/cleaner and dry
thoroughly with a towel.

I use calcium chloride dessicant (Damp-Rid).

I minimized the number of door openings on the serving freezer by
running taps and CO2 through a collar.

I make it a habit to towel off any condensate I see on the cabinet
interior walls when I open the door.

 I made the collar on my serving freezer out of 2" square vinyl
downspout material. I mitered the corners and reinforced each with
squares of aluminum sheet. I filled the collar with rigid foam
insulation and then pop-riveted the corners together.

 After removing the freezer lid, I applied a thin bead of white
silicone seal to the top of the freezer and pressed the collar into
the adhesive. I then set the freezer lid on top of the collar to help
hold it in place while the silicone set up.

 I fabricated hinge mount extensions from 1/4" flat aluminum sheet.
The extensions are screwed to the original hinge locations. I located
new hinge mounting holes by folding each hinge down against its
extension and marking through the hinge mounting holes. I removed the
extensions and drilled/tapped for the hinge screws. The extensions are
reattached to the freezer and the lid hinges are screwed to the
extensions. Voila! No permanent modifications to the freezer. Holes
for the taps and CO2 lines are easily drilled through the collar.

 I used a plywood stiffener inside the collar to prevent it from being
crushed where a tap shank passes through. I think a short length of
PVC pipe inside the collar, with the shank passing through it might
make for a better installation though.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


- --
Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com
(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:59:39 -0500
From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: Sponsorship/tempering malt


In HDB #3440 Ron La Borde said
***********************
Hmm, am I missing something here, or would not the AHA be a likely and
appropriate candidate for sponsor.  Not manager, but sponsor.  This might
inspire me to become a member!
***********************

I too would sign up for AHA. But in HDB #3437 Christopher Farley the owner of
the brew shop I patronize said "Speaking as someone who has expressed a strong
interest to Pat in the full $2400 sponsorship, I actually think it is important
to be concerned about the potential commercialization of the HBD."

It looks like there is at least one potential commercial sponsor. Now do we
accept a small commercialization of this fine resource or do we prod the AHA to
back up all this talk of promoting home brewing. Since many of the naysayers of
the AHA here in HDBland complain that they see little benefit from this would a
be good chance for the AHA to make a really good impression. I and surely others
would not be agreeable to the AHA having any input other than what a commercial
sponsor would receive.



In HDB #3440 Dave Burley said regarding malt tempering
***********************
If you use a corona type mill, I would guess it might help, as this method of
milling tends to be pretty brutal to husks.
***********************

As a Corona user I have used the tempering trick it does reduce husk shredding.
However it makes the effort to grind the grain much harder. I have stopped
tempering as the benefits do not out weigh the extra effort for me, especially
when doing 10 gallon batches.



 Dave Hinrichs
 Minnetonka, MN




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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:06:08 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ion exchange

Brewsters:

Bill Frazier asks about ion exchange as a method of altering a wine's
acidity. It works, but it took me many years to figure out why east coast
wines had this funny, aromatic, almost piney or redwood barrel sub-taste
which increased more as I went further north. For a while I condsidered the
possibility it was the wooden casks and barrels they were using, but I
found it even in modern SS wineries.

It finally donned on me. "It's the ion exchange, dummy!"  Further north,
more of the wine needs to be exchanged to get to an aceptable acidity and
therefore these wines taste more of the styrene monomer in the resin.  The
benzene ring on the styrene monomer in conjugation with the unsaturation of
the ethylene substituent group is the source of the "aromatic" - in the
chemical sense - character. In water use of these resins, I doubt the
monomer is soluble, but the alcohol in the wine likely  does solubilize
some small ppm.

If you choose to do this, I suggest you strip the monomer from the resin by
treatment with a higher alcohol concentration treatment than you expect in
the wine. I would hold the resin in contact with alcohol - like vodka or
grain alcohol - for a week or more before using it. Perhaps more than one
alcohol rinse will be needed.  Although my intuition tells me it shouldn't
be a problem, check with the manufacturer for the maximum alcohol
concentration the resin will withstand without softening or you may get a
blocked bed.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date:  Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:23:49 -0700
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Race Track Lids

H. Dowda asks about race track lids:

This refers to the shape of lid on your corny kegs, H.

Most are oval-shaped I believe, but some of the older ones are indeed
shaped like a horse- or auto-racing track (i.e. parallel sides on the long
axis, rounded around the short ends).

BTW, the last keg I purchased from the HB Shop That Never Makes
Mistakes was the race track variety, even though it came with a
plastic oval-style lid.  With a good, soft keg o-ring, it isn't a problem
getting a good seal, YMMV.

Randy in Modesto



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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:14:25 -0500
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: High precision scale

This is just too good to miss, from Scientific Amerian, current issue, a
scale that can measure the weight of a piece of thread, and tell when it is
wet or dry!

Might come in handy for homebrewing, but not sure how yet.

http://www.sciam.com/2000/1000issue/1000amsci.html

Ron La Borde

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:09:16 GMT
From: "dr smith" <drsmithhm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Culture Questions...


Ok - I've been reading some yeast culturing documents and some of
the facts seem unsanitary.  One of the biggest offenders is
culturing plates upside down.  It seems to me that the open lip
of the upturned cover would be constantly collecting nasties
around the edge of the culture and contamination inevitable since
glass-glass isn't a great seal.  Also, after the plate comes out
of a pressure cooker/autoclave, it would seem that the route
nasties would have to take to contaminate the plate would be much
more torturous since they would have to travel both up under the
lip, horizontally for some distance and then down onto the
media(if the plate is not inverted).  Add to that that any
condensation on the cover is also sterile, and I can't fathom
why we'd want to invert them.

Further, when streaking the plate and working in the flame zone,
the cover is apparently left wide open on the table to collect
dust and other contaminates while we're busy streaking the plate.
I know the instructions say to work fast, but my amazing talent
for growing mold on agar plates in combination with this
opportunity for contamination doesn't make me relax and have a
craft/home brew.

Do any of you get break material in your plates?  I put 1oz DME,
1 cup water, and 1 tsp of agar in a pot an boiled for 10 minutes
to combine.  I then poured a plate, and pressure cooked for 25
minutes.  The surface of the plate is smooth, but the material
itself looks crappy because of suspended break material that was
generated in the pressure cooker.  I know I could pressure can
the wort before pouring plates to get the trub out, but it
seems like one heck of a lot of work just to make slants/plates.

Also(last one, then I'll shut up and wait for the debate, I
promise), what do you use for a flame source?  An alcohol lamp or
candle is called for in some of the web resources I've seen, but
they also indicate that the inoculation loop is heated until
glowing red.  Now, I haven't measured the temperature of an
alcohol flame, but I have sure doubts that alcohol burns hot
enough to do this.  Further, a candle gives off a ton of soot
(a carbon deposit, for you aussies - not anything like sook -
we should put together a aussie/english dictionary I think, but
I digress :) and holds an inefficient flame.  Would a bunsen
burner not make more sense given the descriptions I've read?

- --drsmith
_________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:53:00 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: RE: Sponsorship - La Borde

Ron La Borde wrote:
>Hmm, am I missing something here, or would not the AHA be a likely and
>appropriate candidate for sponsor.  Not manager, but sponsor.  This
might
>inspire me to become a member!

Ron, it makes perfect sense but it would never work.  Too many folks on
this digest seem to have a vesting interest in criticizing the AHA and
Charlie P. and I don't think they are willing to give that up.  Of
course those same folks probably would never write a check to help
sponsor this digest either.  And I'll bet the current sponsorship of HBD
list bears this out.

It's my story and I'm sticking with it
Don



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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu>
Subject: Heat transfer/thermodynamics/fluid, and honey

A few questions for the collective.  I'm doing my mechanical engineering
(BSEME) senior design on brewing.  Can any of you point me in the
direction of any thermo/fluid/heat transfer resources on brewing (net or
print).  I plan to check out the archives, but if you could point me in
the right directions (as far as key words, digest numbers, etc) I'd really
appreciate it.

Also, any good references for design of breweries would also be
appreciated.

Lastly, I'm about to get A LOT of honey and was wondering if the
collective could send me their favorite honey related recipes (beer, mead,
cyser, you name it!)

Private e-mail is great to keep from cluttering up the band width.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin
Brewin' in Redford, MI



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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:53:04 -0400
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Prechilling

Peter J. Calinski <PCalinski at iname.com> wrote:

>You could use the old manual method like me.    First I push tap water
>through the immersion chiller.  When the rate of cooling slows down, I get
>a bottling bucket and add all the ice and even "blue" ice packages I have
>handy.  Then I fill up the bucket with water.

Starting with my last batch, I began freezing my copper pre-chiller coil
directly into a two gallon bucket of water.  When I get the wort temp down
to about 115 or 120 degrees F, I then connect the pre-chiller inline.  Just
make sure you blow all the water out of the coil before you freeze it (I use
my compressor).  Chilled my 10 gallon batch minutes.

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00.  The sending or
forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms.



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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:09:31 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: mash hopping

I'm quite surprised that you have found little flavor with
mash hopping, since it's the exact opposite of my experience
with the stuff.  There are four reasons why I think you may
have had less than optimal results:  (1) didn't add enough
hops, (2) used leaf hops, (3) used a thick mash, and (4) had
a high-gravity mash.

Clearly you've used enough hops, so that's not the problem.
I've used leaf hops in the mash before and find that pellets
work much, much better.  I recently did some batches with a
very thick mash and found the mash hop flavor and aroma
didn't quite come through.  Ditto with the high-gravity
mashes (but for me HG mashes are always very thick).

My suggestion for people who try mash hopping is to do a
batch with 100% base malt and a bittering amount you're
comfortable with.  That will give you the feel for the
reaction of mash hops in your system.  I'm starting to get a
suspicion that water chemistry has an effect, but don't have
enough data points.

You suggest that people say they didn't notice much with
respect to mash hopping...they should post to the HBD!  Tell
the world what you think, people.  Nothing behind the
scenes...come out of the closet.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:32:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewinfo at xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: Re: Contradictory Advice--and a proposal

As you know, I'm not actively reading the HBD, but some articles
get forwarded to me occasionally.  One such post was the one by
John Adsit:
>We seem to have some new brewers participating right now, which is
>great.  I have to wonder, though, what they must be thinking as they
>come here for the answers to some of their brewing questions.
>
>In the past few days they have been told to make sure they keep a low,
>gentle boil.  They have also been told how important it is to maintain a
>hot, vigorous boil.  They have been told to keep the lid on. They have
>been told to keep the lid off.

Actually, I'm surprised that anyone would suggest a gentle boil or to
keep the lid on during the boil.  Both are great ways to increase
dimethyl sulphide (DMS), which lends a cooked corn aroma, in your
finished beer.  Professional texts are quite clear on this and I have
references if you really don't believe me, but the Reader's Digest
version is this:

Barley malt contains S-methyl methionine (SMM).  Paler malts (like Pils)
contain more than darker malts like Mild Ale, Vienna and Munich.  When
your wort is above 140F or so (according to George Fix's PoBS), SMM is
readily converted to DMS.  As long as the wort is boiling vigorously
and the kettle uncovered, DMS floats off into the atmosphere.  Actually,
it's this DMS that gives a beer wort boil much of its characteristic
smell and what usually drives many brewers out of the kitchen by
irritated spouses.  You can actually taste concentrated DMS by catching
some of the condensate from the steam that rises off the boil and
tasting it.  Another important factor to reducing DMS in your finished
beer is quick cooling (any posts in favour of slow cooling ;^) ?).
Remember that as long as the wort is above 140F or so, SMM is being
converted to DMS.  If the wort spends a long time between boiling and
140F, a lot of DMS will be produced that doesn't get a chance to be
boiled off.


>Someone should advise them to go to the archives, where they will get
>tons of important instructions, like:

The Internet is a double-edged sword... you get a ton of information, yet
you can't always be sure that what you get is correct.

>Never use plastic in fermentation--and--always use plastic in
>fermentation.

This is a long-standing debate.  The fact that both sides of the debate
have valid points, seems to indicate that you are pretty safe with either.
Personally, I ferment in both, but use glass and stainless more often.

>Never use dry yeast--and--dry yeast is just wonderful.

Which side of this debate you are on depends a lot on two things: if you
have been rehydrating the yeast correctly (15 to 30 minutes in 90 to 100F
*WATER*) and whether you have tried dry yeast *lately*.  When you rehydrate
incorrectly or not at all, you *can* have all kinds of problems.  In the
past (10 years ago), dry yeast was notorious for being infected and very
low viability (part of this may have been the fact that 10 years ago, most
retailers didn't refrigerate their dry yeast).  These days, reputable,
brand-name dry yeast is great and makes great beer.  I use dry yeast more
often than liquid these days, mostly because I don't know until the last
minute that I'll be able to brew.  When I had the choice, I brewed slightly
more often with liquid, but only because there are more choices of liquid
strains than dry.  For example, there is no dry Weizen yeast.

>Hot side aeration destroys your beer--and--hot side aeration is nothing
>to be worried about.

I think that a lot of this debate depends on whether you store your beer
cool and whether you drink it quickly or set it aside to keep for years.
If you store it cool and drink it quickly, I believe that HSA may only
reduce a little hop aroma and that's it.  If you brew big Barleywines
you want to taste when your newborns are 21, then everything that will
help improve shelf life (like reducing HSA) is important... in my opinion.

>Decoction mashing is the only way to go--and--decoction mashing just
>creates bother and mess with no advantage over infusion mashing.

For some styles (like Dortmunder Export and Bohemian Pilsner), decoction
mashing is beneficial and adds some flavour components that would otherwise
require untraditional grain bills.  I have sucessfully imitated that
"decoction flavour" with the addition of small amounts (2 to 5%) of
high-melanoidin malts such as DeWolf-Cosyns Aromatic or Weyermann
Melanoidinmalt.

Back in the days of seriously undermodified malts (ones that I thought to
have been extinct, although now I have heard that St. Pat's of Texas has
one...  imported from the Czech republic, I believe) decoction mashing was
the only way to actually get decent extract yield from your malt.  You see...
modification is *really* just a measure of how much of the protein matrix
that binds the starch is broken down.  Undermodified malts released only
part of that starch, unless you cooked them.  Hence, the brewers of old
had to do decoction mashes.  Alternatively, you could modify the malts
more, which resulted in a subsequent loss of some of the potential yield,
but allowed you to use a simpler mashing schedule.  Many German commercial
brewers (the big ones, really) have been requesting more and more modified
malts from their suppliers.  This is in response to the higher energy
costs of decoction mashing.  The smaller brewers have had to follow suit
and go from triple- to double-decoction or from double- to single-decoction
mashes because the malt they get from their suppliers is malted to the
big brewers' specs.  This all comes from a talk given by a brewmaster from
an Austrian (formerly from a Belgian) brewery at the first Spirit of Belgium
conference near Washington, D.C.  Unless you get some of that undermodified
malt from St. Pat's, I wouldn't do any more than a single decoction and
only on the styles that would benefit from the increased melanoidins
(e.g. Muenchner Helles, Bohemian Pilsner, Dortmunder Export, Weizen, maybe
a few others... you could use it in Dunkelweizen, Muenchner Dunkel and
Altbier, but the Munich malt in the grain bills of these beers already has
quite a bit of melanoidins, so I think the benefit would be less than in
the deep golden beers).

Incidentally, the notes from this talk were to be published by Brewing
Techniques... were they ever?  If not, could they be put online?

I hope this clears things up more than it clouds them.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL
korz at brewinfo.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:44:42 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1 at email.msn.com>
Subject: American Brewer

Hi all!  I noticed that recently someone asked whatever happened to American
Brewer magazine.  Well it is alive and well and the new issue is about to be
mailed out.  I spoke with Bill Owens today and he said he had been so busy
putting together the directory, that the magazine fell behind.  He also
wanted me to pass along some websites of his as we may all be an interested
group, so here they are:

http://www.americanbrewer.com
http://www.billowens.com
http://www.colonialbrewing.com

No affiliation, just a subscriber to the mag.

Rich Sieben
(The lucky brewer)
Island Lake, IL




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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:25:34 -0400
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: GABF

Are the HBDers going to meet anyplace specific this year at the GABF?

Dana Edgell
EdgeAle Brewery
San Diego (for one more day)


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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:58:29 -0400
From: Darla Elsken <elsken at home.com>
Subject: Pro Mash

Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard writes:

> 1.) How good is ProMash? I'm looking for Pros and Cons

Well, I have been using the evaluation version to see how it works, and
I am impressed.  Easy to formulate, and it has a ton of very, very handy

calculators.

The customer support is beyond excellent.  I have not even bought it yet

but I had some questions, so I emailed Jeffrey Donovan and we exchanged
several emails.  It is obvious to me he really proud of what he has
accomplished but is still looking for input on how to improve it.

That said, I do have one complaint (the subject of my email to
Jeffrey).  It does not really calculate mash efficiency correctly, IMO.
It does calculate an effcieincy, but it does not really mean much
because it does not take into account the volume of wort either before
or after the boil.  If that is not important to you, or you are an
extract brewer, then I can find no fault in the program.

Jeffrey has shown interest in adding this feature to future versions of
the program.  I know Jeffrey reads the HBD, so I am planting this
message in order to further encourage him!

Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery





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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:01:16 -0600
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: World Brewers Forum

For all you HBDers that will be going to the GABF, here is an event you
might be interested in. I've gone to this little gathering several times

and it's always good. Lots of great homebrew and a raffle with lots of
good beer stuff. I was given permission to post this info by John Adams,

The Brews Traveler

World Brewers Forum

The Keg Ran Out Club (KROC) in conjunction with the American Homebrewers

Association, the Birko Corporation, Pete's Wicked Ale and The Homebrew
Hut
is once again very excited to bring to the Denver area "Great Beers of
the
Pacific Northwest" at the Sixth Annual KROC World Brewers Forum (tm).
KROC would like to extend a very big thank you to our sponsors and the
attendees of past Forum events. This year's event includes a very
special
friend to The Keg Ran Out Club and the master of ceremonies: Fred
Eckhardt.
*Geoff Larson
President and Co-founder of Alaskan Brewing Co., Twenty-time Great
American
Beer Festival Medal winner and world-renowned brewer of Alaskan Smoked
Porter

*Jamie Floyd*
        Head brewer at Steelhead Brewery and Cafe and designer of
Steelhead's award-winning Wheat Wine.
If this sounds like fun then don't forget that great homebrewed and
commercial beers will be on hand, lots of food, and we will even toss in

a
few hundred dollars of door prizes. How much will this Forum cost you
ask?
Nothing! The Forum is and will always be free of charge! So don't forget

to
attend the Sixth Annual KROC World Brewers Forum (tm).

Cost: FREE!
When: 8pm-12pm Thursday, October 5, 2000
Where: Denver Marriott City Center
1701 California, Denver, (303) 297-1300
RSVP: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com
<mailto:BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com>
(303) 460-1776 (Homebrew Hut)

Enjoy,
Roger Whyman






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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:08:09 -0600
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: mash hopping

>From the feed back I've gotten, I sounds like my biggest problem with my
mash hopping experiment was that I used whole hops instead of pellets.
I'll try again. Thanks for the help.
Later,
Roger Whyman
In the land of the GABF



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---