HOMEBREW Digest #3440 Wed 27 September 2000
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
mash hopping ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
Temp Controller (Michael Marshburn)
Will the real Boddingtons please stand up! ("Warren White")
dryhopping (Aaron Perry)
Re: Rocky Mountain Highs ("J. Matthew Saunders")
ProMash ("Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard")
double milling ("D. Schultz")
"Controversies in Home Brewing" ("Kevin Jones")
Wine question (William Frazier)
Charlie Papazian Video- BOP - Counterpressure Filler (Ant Hayes)
Beer defects (Jacob Jacobsen)
plastics in brewing ("Kevin Kutskill")
Teel pump (fridgeguy)
Pump Connections ("William Stewart")
Race Track Lids ("H. Dowda")
De-leading brass ("Michael Maag")
sanitizing long stuff ("Spies, Jay")
Sponsorship and Homebrewing Urban Legends ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
re: 475 F 'Boil' ("Heavner, Lou [FRS/AUS]")
100% wheat malt extract (Mike Proffitt)
RE: Prechilling (LaBorde, Ronald)
Re: Boddingtons ("G. M. Remake")
Sponsorship (LaBorde, Ronald)
Wyeast 1272 experience ("Daniel C Stedman")
Oxygen Permeabilities of Plastics ("D. Schultz")
Converted Fridge Condensation ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Temper, temper (Dave Burley)
Alaskan Brewing Company recipes ("S. SNYDER")
4 Inch PVC Sanitizer ("Kevin Jones")
low extraction (?) (LJ Vitt)
Mash Hopping (Roger Whyman)
sanitation (RIPIC80)
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:47:02 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: mash hopping
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Mash and FWH
"I recently tried mash hopping in a bitter along with FWH (which I've
done many times) and was really disappointed with the results. How
about some thoughts from you mash hoppers" ...
snip
"3 oz. EKG in mash"
One thing to note, as it is important I think, use only pelletized hops. If
you used whole hops they are not going to release much in the way of oils
just sitting in a mash. They need the action of a boil. Pellets, however,
just dissolve.
For general info on mash hopping see our hop usage page:
http://www.paddockwood.com/guide_hop_usage.html
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:43:07 -0400
From: Michael Marshburn <mike48 at rcn.com>
Subject: Temp Controller
Just a quick question or two to the collective:
Anyone familiar with the Tek Supply Waterproof Prewired Thermostat and if it
could be put
to use controlling the temp on a refridgerator? It looks like it would have
to hang inside
if the coil at the bottom is the temp sensor.
Another question on FWH: I made a pilsner earlier in the year and used the
procedure and was
really pleased with the results. Its still warm here in VA, but I'm out of
HB and I have a couple
of cans of liquid malt I won at the HB club meeting. Would it produce the
same results to keep
the wort at around 170F for about an hour with the flavor hops added then
boiled as usual
with the bittering hops?
Thanks
Mike M
Virginia Beach, Va
mike48 at rcn.com
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:56:19 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Will the real Boddingtons please stand up!
Close but no Cigar Brad McMahon
Time to turn to (who I consider to be) the clone masters,
Wheeler & Protz. According to the latest edition of
_Brew Your Own British Real Ale_, Boddingtons Bitter
is OG 1035, 7 SRM, 3.7% abv & 37 EBU.
The recipe Wheeler gives is 92% pale malt, 5% crystal, 3% sugar.
Hops are Whitbread Goldings for the boil and a 2:1 ratio of Kent
Goldings
to Fuggles in the finish - for US 5 Gal 0.3oz Kent Goldings 0.15
Fuggles.
The reason why the beer tastes less bitter and has little hop aroma is
probably largely because it is served via nitrogen dispense rather than
by a gravity hand pump.
Here's to beers,
Brad
Aldgate, Sth Australia
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Boddingtons like a lot of other U.K. nitrocans we find on our Bottle-Shop
shelves (Tetley, Double Diamond etc.) *DOES* does come in a Cask-Conditioned
entity...
The Wheeler and Protz recipe you list above would be for an approximation of
Boddingtons Cask-Conditioned Real Ale
not the tasteless garbage in the all-conquering widget can and keg served
via the dreaded nitrogen dispense (yuuuckkk) don't get me started!
Believe you me the *REAL* Boddingtons is a reasonably pleasing example of a
fine Mancurian Cask-Conditioned Bitter, there are better and conversely
there are worse examples than Boddingtons, what sets it apart from most of
it's bretheren is that appearance-wise it is far paler in its colour and
tarter in its finish than the norm, probably a fair starting point as a
session beer for the Real Ale Virgin or Lager Lout.
The Wheeler and Protz recipe seems pretty much on the mark for a Cask
Boddingtons Clone, though I'd say that they're being a little
modest/flattering? with the sugar content, you could probably stretch it to
about 10% IMHO. It also could almost be made with the absence of or very
little Crystal Malt if any were to be used keep it to the lightest.
In a nutshell, YES the poor nitrokeg Paper Tiger lacks hop bitterness and
aroma, (what nitro beer doesn't, too cold). The real McCoy has the usual
pleasing (but not over-abundant) fresh bitterness and nice subtle hop aroma,
depending on it's condition in the cask and how it's been handled. See out a
Pub that turns over a fair bit of the stuff and you won't be disappointed!
I remember my first pint of Cask Boddingtons, it was a Pub I can't remember
the name unfortunately (perhaps somebody can), it was right across the road
from where Jack The Ripper committed his last murder (East London?). It had
an intentionally shabby finish inside and you could actually buy Jack the
Ripper Memorabilia at there (books, T-Shirts etc). Touristy yes, but the
Boddingtons was superbly fresh as were all their other beers. Ah shit! The
name still escapes me!
Later!
Warren L. White
Melbourne, Australia
Someone please remember the name of the Pub???!!!
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:12:23 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: dryhopping
Can anyone give me an idea as to how long dry hopping benefits will last
compared to regular late additions?
Thanks
AP
- --
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when I had beer all along..."
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:27:03 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Highs
Bob,
You should check out the Wynkoop Brewery on Wynkoop Street. It is within
walking distance of the Adam's Mark--A straight shot down the 16th Street
Mall, when you hit the train tracks, hang a right. Go down past Union
Station and you'll see the pub on the left side. If you want to grab a
pint together, drop me an email and we'll see if we can make it work.
Cheers!
Matthew in Denver.
"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:45:45 -0400
From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" <taliesin2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: ProMash
Two questions for all concerned:
1.) How good is ProMash? I'm looking for Pros and Cons TIA.
2.) Where can I find the archives for the list? Thanks. :-)
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:35:57 -0700
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at uswest.net>
Subject: double milling
My HERMS has been suffering from poor extraction since I put it together. I
fact, my all-grains have always suffered. After enough batches and closely
looking at everything I can control, I bought a mill to work on that last
variable - grain crush.
Now I have but one data point to share. I opened the gap and ran the grain
through. Visual inspection noted cracked husks but little of the white
insides (what's the technical terms for this?) in sight. Then I decreased
the gap and ran the grain through a second time per Dave's comments. The
grain looked like empty husks and plenty of flour. I was sweating a stuck
mash.
The mash recirculated without a problem using a pump to recirculate. While I
prefer a low pump rate, I found that I could run wide open without a
problem. The grain bed was packed so tight, it was difficult to stir it. My
IPA used 23 lbs of grain for a 10 gallon batch in a 10 gallon Gott.
I stopped lautering when I had about 14 gallons as more wouldn't fit in my
converted keg boiler for fear of a messy boil over. I was still at the 1.020
mark for the mash runnings. I think I could have taken another couple of
gallons of wort.
I haven't sat down to make any calculations yet but I can tell the grain
crush made a big difference. Of course, I always felt my brew hop's mill was
a bit coarse but they insisted everything was fine. I'm a believer in double
milling. I will try some 'sperments on single milling soon just to test my
observations.
Burp,
-Dan
PS: O2 permeability rates to be posted soon. I realized I had a number of
data points for plastics but not polycarbonate (plastic carboys). I will
report when I have tracked that data down.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:54:56 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: "Controversies in Home Brewing"
John Adsit writes:
Why doesn't someone write a book with a title like "Controversies in
Home Brewing"? It could have a chapter for each controversial topic.
It would be as objective as possible, with each side getting its due.
It would include references to critical scientific studies. It could
finish each chapter with an informed summary.
Frankly, I think a book like that would be among the most important in a
home brewer's library.
Great Idea, except there is one problem. Almost every subject in brewing
has a controversy, and there is no clear answer to which argument is the
truth....or ah....wait a minute....no, its the other way around. They do
all have clear answers. No, wait. I think I had it right the first time.
Good luck reaching a consenses!
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:00:20 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Wine question
I grow and make wine out of French-American hybrid grapes. These grapes
have too much acid to make a drinkable wine unless steps are taken to reduce
the acid content, either before or after fermentation. I can usually get
the acid content down to reasonable levels, but not always. I have a text
that mentions the use of ion exchange to remove acid from grape juice. I'm
sure there are HBD readers that have experience using ion exchange in their
work. I would appreciate any information you might have concerning resin
type/brand, equipment needed, technique, etc. I have a background in
pharmaceutical research so I'm laboratory broken and look forward to trying
a new method for improving my wines. Thanks in advance.
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:44:50 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Charlie Papazian Video- BOP - Counterpressure Filler
In Charlie Papazian's video on how to brew, he shows a Canadian Brew on
Premises set up. They have (had) a very neat counter pressure bottle filler.
Does anyone know what it is, and how to get hold of the manufacturers?
Cheers
Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 03:48:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jacob Jacobsen <beermakerdk at yahoo.com>
Subject: Beer defects
Where I live, there are no other homebrewers and I
have
started from scratch, reading both Dave Miller's books
and the Seven Barrel Brewery book. I have quite a bit
of equipment, such as a lauter tun, grain mill and
fridge with custom controller.
I need a way to recognize defects. I can recognize a
"rotten eggs" smell, but the others are just
a guess on my part. Can someone steer me toward some
information which will enable me to deliberately
create
certain defects (in small quantities) so that I can
identify them. I have made about ten batches, mostly
kits, but a couple of all grain brews. In general,
I'm pleased with the results, but can't identify some
of the "off flavors".
I intend to keep trying until I get it right. Needless
to say, this Listserv is my contact with the outside
"brewing world".
Jake
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:10:10 -0400
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at home.com>
Subject: plastics in brewing
Al Beers and others have been wondering about fermenting in 5 gallon plastic
water jugs:
Having "been there done that," I wouldn't recommend it. The jugs are hard
to clean, especially the hardened precipitate at the top of the jug. Then
you scrub hard with a carboy brush, scratch the inside of the jug, and then
your beers start getting infected (at least mine did). I blamed it on the
scratches on the inside of the jugs--it may be hard to sterilize completely.
If you use them, be careful of cleaning/sanitation issues.
Kevin
beer-geek at home.com
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:05:12 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Teel pump
Greetings folks,
In HBD #3439, Drew Avis asked if anybody else is using a Teel 1P677A
pump in a RIMS.
I've been using this same pump for 3 years or so in my own system
with good results. The pump is limited for use below 175 degF so don't
try to use it for boiling liquids. The inlet and outlet connections
are sized for use with 5/8" I.D. hose. My system is hard-piped in 1/2"
copper water pipe, which is 5/8" O.D. Convenient :-) I simply use a 2"
length of reinforced clear PVC hose at each pump connection and slip
it over the copper pipe. Clamps on all connections prevent leaks.
I haven't had any trouble with this setup and find the hose
connections are flexible enough to allow me to remove the wing-nuts
and slip the volute open to allow me to rinse out any grain bits that
accumulate inside. I usually clean in place with PBW after scrubbing
down the kettle and mash tun.
Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:06:57 -0400
From: "William Stewart" <estewart at idt.net>
Subject: Pump Connections
Drew Avis wrote:
I recently purchased a "slightly used" pump for my bottom fired RIMS
project. It's a Teel 1P677A, a mag pump that is no longer manufactured.
Anyone else out there using this pump anymore? It has smooth plastic
connectors which have a slight flair at the end - anyone know how to connect
hoses to this sucker.
The inlet and outlet are designed to have flexible tubing slipped on and
to be hose clamped in place. The center connector is the inlet, the one on
the perimeter of the housing is the discharge port. If the body of the
connector is about 0.622" it is intended for use with 5/8" ID tubing.
Bill Stewart
Moving Brews
pumps at movingbrews.com
www.movingbrews.com
Polar Ware Kettles On Sale Free Shipping
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 05:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Race Track Lids
What are they (keg configuration).
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:42:15 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us>
Subject: De-leading brass
Randy asks:
>>Was I right in assuming there would be no benefit from trying to de-lead
the ball valves at that point? ( after 2 or 3 years of beer production)
How much lead can you get out of a ball valve, and is it enough to be
a health concern?
What are the symptoms of lead poisoning? >>
The de-leading process used by homebrewers removes lead from a
few molecular layers of the brass surface. Your brewing removed
that long ago.
The amount of lead which can get into the beer from one or
several untreated brass ball valves is negligible as a health concern.
Adverse health effects from lead exposure are not seen until a person
has a long term blood lead level over 20 to 30 ug/100 grams whole blood
(for several years).
The more serious symptoms are not seen until exposure of >50 ug/100g
for around 20 years, or a single massive exposure.
The symptoms of lead poisoning range from loss of appetite, metallic
taste in mouth, anxiety, constipation, nausea, pallor, weakness,
insomina, headache, nervous irritability, muscle/joint pain, tremors,
numbness, dizziness, hyperactivity, colic, to seizures, coma,and death
from cardiorespiratory arrest. Decreased sex drive, impotence, and
sterility are also symptoms in men.
I have used untreated brass ball valves and compression fittings in both
my mash/lauter tun and my boil kettle for my last 50 brews. I also
dispense through brass taps. I average at least 3 pints daily.
My blood lead level is checked yearly. It is never above 6 ug/100g which
is considered "background level" .
Hope this helps,
Mike Maag (Industrial Hygienist)
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:57:39 -0400
From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: sanitizing long stuff
Hmmmm...
People have been talking about ways to sanitize long thingys like racking
canes and hoses with a minimum of sanitizing solution... My solution (no
pun intended) is to use a plastic wallpapering trough. It's made for
holding wallpaper paste, and it's about 3 feet long, and about 6 inches wide
by 6 inches high. Costs about $1.95 from mega hardware stores. Just a
dribble of sanitizer and about a half gallon of water and you can totally
submerge the pesky long hoses and canes without filling up a bucket...
Just my $0.0002
Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore MD
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:47:00 -0400
From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at solutia.com>
Subject: Sponsorship and Homebrewing Urban Legends
I think the HBD should raise money like all good homebrewing
organizations, have a homebrew contest! At $5 per entry there is
good money to be had. How and where to judge, that's a tough
problem, but worth kicking around as an idea.
I also have a big problem with all of these hard and fast rules,
low boil high boil etc. What newbies need to know is that it is
really really easy to make good beer. Follow that up with great
beer will take more effort and experience! For all of the people I
counsel who have made beer from a kit I give them these as ways to
improve their brew in order of contribution to the overall quality
of the beer:
1. Sanitation Sanitation, Sanitation
2. Full Wort Boil (no dilution)
3. Improved yeast handling (hydrate dry yeast, increase pitching
rate, pitching temperature))
4. Temperature control
5. All grain
You would be surprised at how many new brewers would hear some of
the things we argue about here (rapid boil is a good example) Can
you imagine a newbie who is only doing a partial boil, say 2
gallons for an extract brew, with poor sanitation techniques,
pitching a packet of dry yeast directly on the wort, and worrying
about how vigorous his boil is? Don't laugh, when we make major
issues of these trivial things some homebrewers will take these to
heart over the basics. The emphasis for newbie should be on the
basics!
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:00:06 -0500
From: "Heavner, Lou [FRS/AUS]" <Lou.Heavner at frco.com>
Subject: re: 475 F 'Boil'
"H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> asks:
>Have the laws of physics changed, or was someone BSing
>the group? Unless under pressure, water turns to
>steam at 212 F. What would it take - a hundred psi? -
>to get liquid water to 475 F?
Actually, closer to 540 PSIG or higher. And strictly speaking, it takes
energy (heat), not pressure itself to get liquid water to 475 F. ;)
Cheers!
Lou Heavner - Austin, TX
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:08:14 -0400
From: mproffit at offo2.epa.state.oh.us (Mike Proffitt)
Subject: 100% wheat malt extract
I have a friend who is allergic to barley, but loves beer. As a result,
I worked up a recipe for an american pale ale using 100% wheat malt
extract. I last made a batch for her about two years ago using Ireks
canned extract. I just found out that Ireks has discontinued their
wheat malt extract. Does anyone know of another dry or liquid 100%
wheat extract? My understanding is that an all grain solution is very
difficult, due to gumming of the grains. I did a 50% wheat 50% barley
all grain batch for a hefeweisen once, and got a stuck run-off. My
guess is that a 100% wheat all grain batch would be a nightmare. Anyone
have any good solutions?
Thanks
Mike
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:41:49 -0500
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Prechilling
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
>You could use the old manual method like me. First I push tap water
>through the immersion chiller. When the rate of cooling slows down, I get
>a bottling bucket and add all the ice and even "blue" ice packages I have
>handy. Then I fill up the bucket with water.
This is good, but let me add to this. The day or so before you brew, half
fill your bucket with water and put in your beer fridge to get the water
temperature down as low as possible - it really makes a HUGE difference when
you finally add the ice. Try it, you'll like it.
>Give it a few minutes to
>cool. (Actually, when I see the cooling rate taper off, I start this ice
>bucket so it is ready.) Then I run this cool water through the chiller
>(gravity feed). I just let the output of the chiller run down the driveway
>but if you want to conserve water, you could catch it in another bucket.
>When the catcher bucket is half full (or full to what ever level you can
>lift easily), dump it back into the ice bucket.
This is also good, but if you can get an aquarium submersible pump
($25-$30), just plunge it into the ice water, and circulate to your heart's
content and if you keep adding ice, you can eventually get the wort to
almost 32F.
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:53:09 -0600
From: "G. M. Remake" <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Boddingtons
Hello all,
Thanks for the replies to my request for help in formulating a Boddingtons
clone for SWMBO. As Brad posted in Monday's HBD, according to Wheeler &
Protz, Boddingtons Bitter is OG 1035, 7 SRM, 3.7% abv & 37 EBU. Their
recipe is 92% pale malt, 5% crystal, and 3% sugar. This is pretty similar
to the only recipe I found in the archives, but for the crystal replacing
even less black malt (sounds right). The 37 EBU really fooled me (that's a
BU/GU ratio over 1.05!); I suspected IBUs in the low 20s. Perhaps the lack
of hops flavor and aroma fooled me, as well as the very low carbonation.
So here's what I've decided to brew this weekend. There's no way I can
duplicate a nitro head with so flat a beer, so I'll cheat a bit and
carbonate to 1.5 volumes (outside the 0.75 - 1.30 guidelines) and include
some head retention-improving malts. A bit of Carapils and wheat malt
should do it. My OG target will be 1.040, but the recommended amount of
sugar and a touch of flaked maize should lighten the body. I've got some
Caramunich for the crystal, and the balance will be British pale. A simple
infustion mash at 150F for 90 mins. seems appropriate. I'll bitter with
EKG pellets and use only 0.25 oz. of homegrown Willamette flowers at 15
mins. for a hint of flavor and aroma as well as filtering aid, ending up
around 30 IBUs after a 90-minute boil. I've already got a starter going
with White Labs 005 British.
It looks like I've complicated an otherwise simple recipe, but I've
justified using up some left-overs, ending up with sort of an ESB-light. I
think SWMBO will approve given the lower OG and bitterness,and if she
doesn't, I guess I'll just have to dispose of it myself!
Cheers!
Greg
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:56:04 -0500
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Sponsorship
Hmm, am I missing something here, or would not the AHA be a likely and
appropriate candidate for sponsor. Not manager, but sponsor. This might
inspire me to become a member!
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:36:44 -0500
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1272 experience
I have encountered an interesting characteristic of 1272, and I thought that I
would see if anyone else has experienced the same thing. I've recently brewed a
batch of pale ale and a batch of porter with this yeast, and both batches have
had a fairly tough skin of yeast left on top of them once fermentation is
complete. I've never seen this with any other yeasts that I have used. It seems
like the skin would actually provide a pretty good layer of protection against
O2 pickup, so I guess I am not complaining. I actually used the skin off of the
first batch to ferment the second batch (which I harvested 4 days after the
start of fermentation, so it was pretty fresh), and it took off like a rocket.
Are there any problems with harvesting the yeast on top, outside of flocculation
issues (since I am potentially selecting the less-flocculant yeast)? I must
admit that the porter is still pretty turbid, but it has only been a week since
I brewed it...
Also, does 1272 get funny at higher temps? I accidently let it get up to 80 deg
F for ~8 hours during the first day of fermentation before getting it back down
to the mid to upper 60's...
Dan in Minnetonka
(or that guy with 50 lbs of PBW and 4 gallons of StarSan - yow!)
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:54:47 -0700
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at uswest.net>
Subject: Oxygen Permeabilities of Plastics
OK, here's the data from GE Plastics (units are cc-mil/24 hrs -100 in^2 -
atm):
Plastic O2 Perm. Typical use in HB'ing
Polystyrene 434 not used much
Polycarbonate 234 plastic carboys, airlocks
Polypropylene 150 not used much
High Density PP 110 not used much
PETG (polyester) 27 soda bottles
PVC 11 vinyl tubing
The following data is from another source
Low Density PE 500 fermenting buckets
Polystyrene 330
Polycarbonate no data
Polypropylene 190
High Density PP 185
*PET (polyester) 5
PVC 4
*PET and PETG are not necessarily the same. Sometimes PETG will be refered
to as PET. Low O2 permeability data is noted for stretched PET (3.0) as is
used in packaging but not bottles.
While the number are somewhat off between the two data sets, the rankings
are similar. I couldn't find a number for glass but seem to remember that it
was measured in tenths.
Also keep in mind that wall thickness plays a big part in permeability. The
blow molded PC carboys will have a much thinner wall than the injection
molded LDPE buckets.
GE uses a calculation to determine the amount of O2 that would permeate
through the wall over time:
02 (g) = (Px/100) * (Area * Time)/ Wall thickness
where Px = Permeability coefficient
Area = Surface area in sq. inches
Time = Duration in days
Wall thickness in mils (0.001's of an inch)
So my fermentation bucket (LDPE, Px = 500) has an average diameter of 11"
and a height of 17" and an approximate wall thickness of 60 mils. O2
permeation for 30 days =
O2 (g) = (500/100) * (777*30)/60
O2 (g) = 1,942g of O2 or 64g per day.
Since a PC carboy is about the same size and has half the permeability but
also half the wall thickness, I estimate a smilar value for the PC carboy.
That seems like an awful lot. 64g of O2 is 2 moles or 44.8 liters of gas at
STP. What am I missing here?
Regardless, Plastic carboys and buckets are very similar in O2 permeation.
Here's the reference to the GE data:
www.geplastics.com/resins/techsolution/technifacts/oxygen_water_permeability
.html
Burp,
-Dan
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:11:43 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Converted Fridge Condensation
Hey Fridge Guy!
I think we should start all fridge-related posts with a shout-out to
Forrest! ;-)
I have 12.5 cu. ft. chest freezer converted to fridge temps with a Johnson
Controller. Works great - one problem. Condensation on the walls when
opened and closed too much. I know. Don't open & close too much. But
that's where the beer is! Condensation itself isn't really that bad but the
inevitable black mold soon follows - underneath the kegs, on the keg's
rubber parts, underneath carboys. How does a guy to cope? Emptying,
cleaning and drying this thing out sucks. Hey, I got it mainly so that I
don't have to lift 80+ lbs of beer up 3.5 feet - unless it's done 16 fl. oz.
at a time!
Any chemical treatments? The other option is to run the taps so that I
don't need top open the top to dispense a beer. Since it's a chest freezer,
running shanks through the sidewalls are out as with my luck, I will hit a
refrigerant line. A serving tower on the top is an option, but what about
cooling the lines within the tower? Plus, they would have to be easily
detachable for when I open the fridge so that their weight doesn't rip them
from that thin-walled top (even with minor supporting.
What do you other biermeisters do?
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:44:38 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Temper, temper
Brewsters:
Drew Avis asks my opinion if he should temper his malt by treating it to a
small amount of water (called tempering) before milling and wonders if his
sparge will run like a wombat in heat if he does both. The only real wombat
I have seen was dead on a road in Oz. I guess he was just too slow, so I
couldn't offer this as a comparator. But I'll bet if you follow my
directions in the HBD archives you will have to slow down the flow with a
valve to take an hour to sparge and get maximum efficiency in your
extraction.
In any event, professional brewers sometimes do temper their malt. I
suspect the need has to do with the ambient humidity in the grain storage.
In dry climates it might make a difference. When I tried it with my double
milling procedure on my roller mill, I couldn't see any significant
difference, but YMMV. Like everything I suggest, I always suggest you try
it with your system, as this is easy to do. If you use a corona type mill,
I would guess it might help, as this method of milling tends to be pretty
brutal to husks.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:49:33 -0400
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com>
Subject: Alaskan Brewing Company recipes
Greetings all.
I just returned from a trip to Alaska and was wondering if anyone had good
recipes (extract) for the Alaskan Brewing Company (Juneau, Alaska) beers.
Apparently their smoked porter (which was being brewed while I was there,
seasonally only) is a major award winner. I enjoyed their Alaskan Amber,
ESB, Stout, and IPA. It is far too costly to have it shipped here to
Connecticut so making it myself is the next best thing. I know the guide
(who seemed to know enough to be dangerous but not enough to be helpful)
said he heard the recipe was published in "one of those brewing magazines"
in the last month or two but didn't know the name. Assuming it was Zymurgy
(which I don't get).
FYI- a stop to the Glacier Brewhouse in Anchorage is well worth the time.
They have great brews and although the place doesn't look like much from the
outside, it is quite nice inside, and packed for lunch by 11:30.
Thanks in advance.
Scott Snyder
Senior Hydrogeologist
Leggette, Brashears & Graham, Inc.
126 Monroe Turnpike
Trumbull, CT 06611
(203) 452-3100
(203) 452-3111 fax
ssnyder at lbghq.com
"The eye seldom sees what the mind does not anticipate."
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:17:00 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: 4 Inch PVC Sanitizer
OK...I got lots of responses for details on my design for a 4 inch PVC
container for sanitizer. Thanks for the interest. Its always nice when you
feel like you have come up with a new idea to help make better beer.
First the disclaimers. 1. All you engineers, plumbers, etc please feel
free to help perfect the design/terminology. 2. I have only used this
system with StarSan. 3. I accept all slings and arrows that come my way as
long as they are constructive to the goal we all share...Better Beer!
As mentioned in my earlier posting, I wanted a way to submerge long items
(spoons, canes, hoses etc) in sanitizer without wasting so much StarSan and
also make it easier to get long hoses filled without having to coil them in
a bucket. I built a 4 foot high tube with 4 inch PVC. I included a screen
plunger on a pole that rests on the bottom so the submerged items can be
raised up out of the sanitizer for easy reach. I attached the tube to the
legs of my wooden mashing platform with 4 inch worm gear clamps. For a
visual, it works like the jar at the barbershop full of blue juice and
combs.
The Details
Make the tube whatever length suits your needs/equipment. Mine is about 4
feet high. I made the first one with a screw plug (I think the plumbing
term is "clean out"). This was not as good as I had hoped. It added cost,
weight, and potential leak areas. Also, with the plug threads tight enough
not to leak , it is really hard to remove again. My original thought was
the "clean out" would be helpful in emptying and cleaning the tube. The
second one I made only has an end cap. I recommend this simpler design. So
far that's about 4 feet of 4 inch PVC with an end cap glued onto it. If you
have never worked with PVC, it is very easy. Follow the directions on the
glue can.
The real trick to this system is the plunger used to lift the items out of
the sanitizer. I used 5 feet of 1 inch PVC, a 1 inch end cap, a 4 inch PVC
drain, and some fasteners. Glue the 1 inch end cap on the 1 inch PVC. The
PVC drain I bought has to be adapted. It is designed to fit into the 4 inch
PVC. The drain is open on one end and has a cross hatch drain grid on the
other. It also has a flange that rests on the edge of 4 inch PVC. But we
don't want it to rest on the edge, we want it to slide through the tube and
be our basket at the bottom of the tube. Cut off the flange that keeps the
drain from passing through the 4 Inch PVC. This is the only part that
takes any craftsmanship whatsoever. I used a hack saw to rough cut the
flange off close to being flush. I then use 100 grit sand paper and a
sander to finish it off. As you work the flange down, you can test fit it
into the 4 inch PVC. When it slips in and out easily, you are there. To
clean up the rough texture left by sanding, just give it a quick rub with
some acetone. Now you have a 4 inch cylinder, about 2 inchs deep, open at
on end and a cross hatch drain pattern on the other. Using the center hole
in the cross hatch drain pattern, attach the drain to the 1 inch PVC end
cap. I drilled a pilot hole in the end cap, then use a wood screw and large
washer ( have not found metal fasteners that don't turn back in the StarSan,
I could use some advice here) to make the attachment. You should now have a
long (5 feet) PVC pole with a drain attached to the end that will just slide
into and all the way down into the 4 inch PVC tube. All the materials are
on the same aisle at Home Depot except the fasteners.
Mount in a vertical position in whatever manner suits your brewery. I used
one or two 4 inch worm gear clamps. I put 5/8 ID vinyl hose over the clamps
to give it some grip, then screwed them to my mash stand. Drop the tube
through the clamps and tighten the clamps. I don't get the clamps too tight
which makes it easier remove for draining and cleaning. Next fill with
sanitizer and you are ready. I haven't measured it but I think mine holds
about 2 gallons. From time to time I check the pH of the solution and add
fresh StarSan (as recommended by StarSan) as needed to get back below 3,
usually closer to 2. When the solution starts looking bad, dump it.
One more Item you want to purchase on the PVC aisle are some plastic plugs
that fit the 4 inch PVC. I think they are called "knock outs". Use the
knock outs for lids, covering the tubes when not using the system. This
helps to keep the bugs (big flying kind) out of the solution. I don't know
about anyone else's experience, but flies seem to be attracted to StarSan.
It kills them too, and at proper pH I have to believe that even a dead fly
in the sanitizer does not invalidate its purpose, but I hate to see a dead
bug in my sanitizer anyway. Hum...Dead Fly Ale....on second thought, maybe
not.
Someone asked about slime build up on things left in StarSan. This is a
problem. When not brewing, I take everything, including the plungers, out
and hang them up to dry. They are coated with StarSan, which according to
the manufacture helps prevent contamination even during dry storage.
Anyway, when ready to brew, insert the plunger first, then just drop
everything in. For hoses, I usually bend them in half, then submerge bend
first.
One thing I have not done yet is locate a cheap brush that would work well
to clean out the inside of the tubes. I'm thinking a long handled toilet
brush, but haven't really looked yet.
Please let me know your Ideas. Wish I could add some pics. With all the
talk about upgrading/funding the hbd, adding the capability to show pictures
this is something to consider.
I have to go out-of-town for a few days, so give me some time to catch up to
the e-mail/hbd postings when I get back.
Drink Better Beer!
Kevin Jones
Music City Brewers
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: low extraction (?)
In HBD #3439 Frank asked about low extraction......
>> and, according to the extract yields he listed, the gravity
>>of my
>>mash should have been around 40. It was 12. So, I ask you, good readers
>>of
>>this, the only online site I browse - what the hell happened??? My mash
>schedule is the same as the last beer I made - a cherry stout that
Frank, did you check the PH of the mash?
My first all grain got horible extraction. I ignored the PH. Then I re-read
Millers chapters on mashing. The mash PH should be in a range, I think 5.0 to
5.6. I adjust my PH to 5.3 using acid. Currently I am using phospheric acid.
I think the mineral content of your water makes a big difference in the PH.
Some people never need to adjust their PH. Others need to. There are a couple
of brewers in town who switched from the tap water to RO filtered water
purchased from a water treatment store. They do not need much PH adjustment
now, and used to need quite a lot.
Something else I did to improve extraction: I switched for the zapap lauter
tun to an insulate cooler. Temp of the grain bed during sparge can effect
extraction. I watch the temp of the grain bed. If it is below 160F, I use
180F sparge water. That increases the grain bed temp, and I believe extraction
as well. I want to stay below 170 to avoid getting too much tannins.
__________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:13:42 -0600
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Mash Hopping
Just for the record, I posted a ? about mash hopping a few days ago and
the only comments I got were that it really doesn't seem to do much
(which was my experience). I think I'll stick with FWHing and doing my
usual hopping near and at the end of the boil.
Roger Whyman
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:31:17 EDT
From: RIPIC80 at aol.com
Subject: sanitation
I just wanted to say amen to Wil Kolb; As long as I have been brewing (not
as long as him but 2 years), nothing other than bleach water and the
rinse/heat dry cycles on my dishwasher have been used and my beer has yet to
suck due to infection; those exceptions were due to my own inexperience with
brewing. A 6 gallon bucket filled with water and about an ounce of bleach
holds all that I need it too (including the lid sideways). The racking cane
sticks out a little, but flipping it over halfway through the 30 minute soak
has yet to screw up anything. Bottles get a rinse in bleach water, then into
the dishwasher, where the rinse cycle is over 180 degrees, and one or two
heated dry cycles has managed to keep all nasties at bay. The bottle caps go
in the utensil holder and wash along with the bottles. And, to cap it off -
you anal sanitation folk will shit I'm sure - half the time my cats are
roaming around nearby getting a look and hoping for some spilled beer. I
don't let them touch the bottles though they sure try. And as for the wand:
I'm not sure about the rest of you, but my wand is in the damn bottles
filling them. It takes less than 2 seconds to take it out of one bottle and
put it in another. While one is filling I put another one next to the first
one. Hell I even dump the beer in my overflow pot into bottles through a
funnel into bottles, not always sanitized, to use as testers and have yet to
be disappointed (the idea of a tester being if it sucks, I still have the
properly cleaned ones, if not, cheers!). I realize that this is a bit
cavalier, but until necessity forces me to change my habits, I'll be too
stubborn/dumb/lazy to change. Of course, I knock on wood this whole time....
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