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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Need Advice on York, PA Brewpubs ("Christopher D. Hutton")
  Immersion chiller construction plus test (Jim Wilson)
  Freezers for Fermenting (Tom Byrnes)
  Adelaide Mashers (Darren Miller)
  Biere de Garde - will wonders never cease ("Graham Sanders")
  Cooling a fermenter (Ant Hayes)
  Hops (Elsassa, Mash) (Patrick and Jennifer Fimbres)
  Journada software - me too! ("Dr. Gillian Grafton")
  Virtual Brew (Richard Foote)
  Siphon Tube Placement and Other Vessel Considerations (Rod Prather)
  Chilling/Bean Counters/Chloramine ("A. J.")
  re:jMail order supplies??? ("lauritsm")
  Beer Transport Data Point, et al (Richard Foote)
  Re: Elsassa Hops info. request (Jeff Renner)
  Green Bottles & light (LJ Vitt)
  Another on-line supply house ("Richard B. Dulany Jr.")
  $40 submersible pump/weird fermentation science (Bob Sweeney)
  Welding SS (Tony Verhulst)
  lights on bottles, transport damage and a special Halloween treat ("Richard Sieben")
  Preserving Fruit Flavor ("Peter Zien")
  Immersion Heater Elements (Andy Buhl)


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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:33:35 -0400
From: "Christopher D. Hutton" <bachstar at blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice on York, PA Brewpubs 

I just visited the Brickhouse Brewpub last Sunday, & I was thrilled with my
meal (Chicken Alfredo),
and even MORE thrilled with my beer!  They sell sampler packages from (I
think) $5-$11.  Good tasting beer.
AVOID the goofy-looking male college-aged waiter--- WAYYYY too slow.  The
rest of the staff was on the ball.
Chris


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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:43:35 -0700
From: Jim Wilson <jim.wilson at home.net>
Subject: Immersion chiller construction plus test

I built a 3/8 copper tube immersion chiller following Steve Scoville's
suggestions (thanks Steve!).  It cost $18.50 ($.50/foot for the tubing and
$6 for 2 clamps, some plastic tube, a barb to threaded converter and a
spring tubing bender).  Fabrication took about 15 min and was very easy.  I
used a 1 gal paint can (6-1/2 inches OD) to wrap the coil section and only
needed the bender device for the in and out leg bends.  As a test, I boiled
2.75 gal of plain water and cooled it with the chiller.  Cooling water T in
was 71 deg F, water flow rate was 0.63 gpm and I stirred the wort 10 sec
every 5 min when I took the temperatures.  Here are the results.

time, min		wort, deg F		cooling water out, deg F		
0				206				140
5				126				96
10			98				84
15			86				79
20			80				76
25			78				75
30			76				75

This is a useful chiller coil for me.  At 20 min the wort is cool enough to
rack to the fermenter, dilute and pitch yeast for the ales I like to brew.

                o          \o
   __o         /\          /
  `\ <>       `\ `>       `\  >
(*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)

I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.




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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:00:06 -0400
From: Tom Byrnes <kmstfb2 at exis.net>
Subject: Freezers for Fermenting 

There seems to be some knowledgable people about freezers/refridgerators on
this list so here is my question. I was thinking about buying a small
freezer to ferment ales  at  optimum temperatures. A friend, in my brew club
recently bought a Kenmore freezer about 3 months ago and uses a temperatrue
controller. Condensation has built up in the mechanical compartment and
these wall have already started to rust. The rust is not in the freezer
compartment where the fermentors go but inside the back where the motor and
innerworkings are. Is this typical of freezers because of the warm
temperatures? How could this be avoided? Are fridges better for this job!
What is the best system for fermenting ales and a ocassional lager. Would
appreciate your thoughts and opinions. Happy Brewing Tom



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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:09:44 +0930
From: Darren Miller <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Adelaide Mashers

Howdy,
A couple of months ago I posted her to see if there were any mashers
(full or partial) who would be interested in going in on a bulk grain
purchase from Adelaide Maltings. The grain would be at a price of 80c/kg
and comes in 20 and 50 kg bags. (This is a pretty good price I might
add). Well we nedd 500kg to make the order and currently we have orders
totalling 380 kg. In short anyone in Adelaide interested in helping us
get to the magical 500 k mark. Various malts are being offered
pale/wheat/flaked/crystal/brown/black. Please send me an EMAIL if
interested. Thanks
Darren


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Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:08:27 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Biere de Garde - will wonders never cease

G'day all
l
Well I am amazed at what turns up in the post@ my place. Drug induced
yeast, fungus from japan, lastest is some weird Middle East yoghart culture.
Just waiting for the police to bust me one day.  I can see it now, "whats in
this small alfoil packet son???. "  "Nothing Officer, just some culture, its
for making brews with"  And with a solid hand on the shoulder "yeh, sure
mate, and I am the head of XXXX brewing".  Being carted to the police
station wouldn't be too bad, as i would love to see their faces when they
are proven wrong, but the loss of my culture, well thats hard to take.

Anyway, the reason I raise the mail issue is I also get letters (less each
year).  A bit of back tracking is in order here first.  At the beginning of
the year I was researching Biere de Gardes (BdG).  Anyway in March I
investigated various breweries on the internet.  You know the sites, full of
propoganda, with an e-mail address if you want to ask questions.  Now I
e-mailed off to quite a few, asking questions how do they make there's.  As
we all know hardly any responded and the occasional ones that did just gave
the promotional line - in other words - NO HELP.

So in June I made my BdG from what I had gathered and assumed, (which each
month since is just aging beautifully).  Well Bugger me (can I say that
nowadays) if in August I get a letter from Brasserie Castelain Brewery,
makers of CH'TI Biere De Garde.  A little late I thought, but then i thought
no - they're french and they never give a damn anyway (wait to see who i
upset now with that one).

Now it was nice they sent me a throw-away (opps there's that aus lingo
again - throw-away is those information leaflets everyone gets).  Nice of
them, but the bastard is in French (strange that).  Still it had good
pictures, and like any throw-away most likely useless information for the
likes of me, so no great loss.

BUT (love that word) what I did get was also a letter in the new standard
language of "Moral American" (remember now that English is no longer allowed
on the HBD.)  Now surprisingly, they actually answered some of my questions.

Its looks like my receipe and techniques were pretty spot on. Some of the
more unusual facts that this brewery said were

1. Fermentation temp is 14 C (but didn't say what type of yeast)
2. Primary fermentation last 8 days
3. Beer is stored in secondary tanks for six to eight weeks
4. Sugar is used as a adjunct
5. Its meant to be drunk fresh. Their beer is not meant to be stored for a
long period of time.
6. They do not see the moldy, earthy flavour as desirable
7. Most flavour development (that is Biere de Garde) occurs in the secondary
tank
8. Quote - The flavour of a Biere de garde depends on the beer your are
making.

point 5 and 6 in particular fly in the face of La Cholette, who have the
opposite view point.

Now here's a possible point for people to consider.  I believe there are two
sub-styles of a Biere de Garde, each totally different.

1. Light Biere de Gardes - these are designed to be drunk fresh.  They have
a lighter colour and alcohol content (but still strong), and should not have
any off favours what so ever. CH'TI puts themselves firmly in this
catergory.

2. Strong Biere de Gardes - these have a longer storage capacity, up to 5
years (vintage on the bottle is common), and develop that moldy earthy taste
from whatever the source they come from, (mold, oxidisation, HSA).  They
typically have a much higher alcohol content and use more darker malts. La
Chollette Ambre would fit this bill nicely.

Food for thought

Shout

Graham Sanders

oh
Now Brad must be trying to train his local wildlife to copy the feared
creatures of North Queensland.  Seems we have had 2 people taken by White
Pointers in his area in the last couple of days. Well thats impressive mate,
but we dont have white pointers up here.  Seems they are scared of our
salties and headhunting cods that prowl our waters. But thats only two,
Heard of no others.  You need to do better than that to impress me.

Oh there was this little gust of wind that passed by too.  Blew one mango
off the tree. Thought it was local, (smelt of banana esters) but it came
from the south. Can't help thinking someones trying to make a point, but
can't work out what.  Anyway, cane toads are out with the warm weather, so
must get hopping, wet seasons not too far away. The Dry Heat has arrived
already, (bloody hot and getting more humid by the day).




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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:04:50 +0200 
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Cooling a fermenter

I have recently acquired a 60 litre stainless CCV which I am using as a
fermenter. The only problem is that it does not fit in my beer fridge.

I am not keen to put cooling coils inside the fermenter. I plan to wrap
copper tube around the outside, and then insulate this with foam. Using a 20
litre water cold store in my fridge, set at about 5C, I guess that I can
probably get my fermenter down to about that sort of level - which is okay.

However, I would be keen to get the temp lower for lagering/ filtration. Has
anyone been through this process and come up with a solution that does not
require construction of a cold room?

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:23:14 -0700
From: Patrick and Jennifer Fimbres <patnjen at azstarnet.com>
Subject: Hops (Elsassa, Mash)

Greetings Brewers,

Grant Stott asked about Elsassa hops. This is what I found at Freshops
http://www.freshops.com/usda_hop_desc2.html  (Kudos Dave Wills, most
excellent job!)

 USDA ACCESSION NO: 21170
SELECTION: Unknown, probably from an old land race in the Alsace
region of France
GENUS: Humulus
SPECIES: lupulus
CULTIVAR: Elsaesser
PEDIGREE: Unknown
METHOD RECEIVED: Rhizomes
AVAILABILITY: No restrictions, commercial variety
PRIMARY SITE: USDA-ARS World Hop Cultivar Collection, OSU East Farm
ORIGIN: Probably clonal selection
DATE RECEIVED: Spring 1977 from the Institute of Hop Research, JUNG,
Pulawy, Poland
REFERENCES: USDA-ARS Annual Report of Hop Investigations for 1977,
pp. 33, 35; T. Wagner, ed. Gene Pools of Hop
Countries. Zalec, Yugoslavia. 1978. p. 33
MATURITY: Early
LEAF COLOR: Medium Green
SEX: Female
DISEASES: Downy Mildew: moderately resistant
Verticillium Wilt: unknown
Viruses: unknown
VIGOR: Poor 
COHUMULONE: 26% (4-year range 20-30%)
STORAGE STABILITY: Fair to good (retained 63% of original alpha acids
after 6 months room temperature storage)
OIL: 0.63 ml/100 g (4-year range 0.28-1.13)
MAJOR TRAITS: Noble European aroma characteristics; high humulene
content (32%), high ratio of humulene/caryophyllene
(3.5); contains some farnesene.
OTHER INFORMATION: Grown commercially on very limited acreage in the
Alsace
region of France.

Now on the topic of mash hopping. I Have been mash hopping for about 2
years now. I discovered it when researching Belgian styles and
techniques. Historically Belgian Brewers used aged hops not only in in
the boil for wheat beers (Lambic and Wit), but they also used them in
the mash tun as a filtering medium for high percentage unmalted wheat
mashes. It seems since they were aged very little aroma/flavor or
bitterness would be imparted.  Since I ended up with a huge amount of
leaf Fuggles from a defunct brewery, I thought I would give it a try.
My first time I used about 4 oz for 10 gal in a 50 percent wheat beer.
The hops had no effect on either lauterablity, aroma, or bitterness.
So next time I tried a pound. Lauterability was improved but still no
affect on flavor or bitterness (by now they had a powerfull
cheesy/dirty sock aroma). Now I regularly use up to 2 lb for a 10 gal
batch (did I mention I had a bail of the stuff). It never occured to
me to try fresh hops because I could not tell any difference, it would
seem like a waste of good hops. So here's my data point. I know they
they were not pellets and they were aged but there was a huge amount.
I believe the antioxidants in the hops may help against HSA but the
synergistic effect is largely over stated. 
Thats my experience. I have thought about MH for a while and have some
thoeries but thats all for mow.
             Patrick Fimbres
             Tucson AZ 
"Beer, if drank with moderation, softens the temper, cheers the 
spirit and promotes health."  --  Thomas Jefferson


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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:44:45 +0100
From: "Dr. Gillian Grafton" <G.Grafton at bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Journada software - me too!

Brett asked for brewing software for the HP Journada. Sorry to take up
bandwidth with a me too - but if anyone knows of any software, can they let
me know as well. I have a brand new Journada in my possession to replace the
last one that got drowned in a sea of coffee. (The sparging some people
suggested to cure the problem produced only one bad cup of coffee and one
clean but still useless PDA :( ). TVM.

Dr. Gillian Grafton
MRC Centre for Immune Regulation
University of Birmingham
Birmingham, UK, B15 2TT
Email: G.Grafton at bham.ac.uk



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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:14:16 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Virtual Brew

Hi All,

Our Club is doing another Virtual Brew event this Saturday beginning at 1
p.m. eastern.  We did our last Virtual Brew this past May in conjunction
with Big Brew 2000.  We will be coming to you live and in color from the
Helen Oktoberfest in Helen, GA this time.  We'll have live video and chat
so you can ask questions about equipment, brewing process, and Oktoberfest
as we go along.  We'll be doing an all-grain imperial stout (thanks to
those hbd'ers who gave me input on recipes) from first runnings followed by
a small beer from second runnings.  

We feel this this is an especially good way for newbies to interact and
learn about each step of the brewing process as they see it happen.  It
should also be valuable for those wishing to take the plunge into all-grain
brewing.  We've done an annual brewing demo at the Helen Oktoberfest, for
each of the past 5 years.  The purposes of the brew demo is to give people
an appreciation for how beer gets from grain to glass and generate interest
in homebrewing.  This will be the first time we've gone "virtual" though.

A while back Tom Byrnes had asked about brew stands, lamenting that
commercial ones were too expensive and inquiring about homemade versions.
Well, Tom or anyone else interested can log in Saturday to see one of four
our club built recently.  You can ask the guys (us) any questions about how
we built them, what materials we used, what they cost, etc, etc.

Hope to see you Saturday at 1 p.m.  Here's the url:

http://linkamerica.net/helenbrew/welcome.html

Boy, I hope Pat and Karl get the hbd back up and this gets posted in time.


Hope this helps,

Rick Foote
Murrayville, GA




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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:52:11 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Siphon Tube Placement and Other Vessel Considerations

OK, I'm gonna try this one more time.  I am getting ready to build 
my HLT, MLT and BV.  I'm making them from SS "Sankey" kegs  I was 
wondering where to place the siphon tube in the side of the tanks, 
especially in the MLT.  

This may seem trivial but if the tube is too far from the bottom it 
could come out of the wort during mashing of small batches making 
starting the siphon a problem.  If it is too close to the bottom it 
presents a cleaning problem.  In addition I would like as much 
clearance as possible to make the inside weld.  Welding the bottom of 
the fitting is a blind weld and quite difficult to reach.  So with 
respect to fabrication and cleaning the tube should be far from the 
bottom and for wide range operation the it should be very close.   
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:05:24 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Chilling/Bean Counters/Chloramine

Bill's suggestion re putting a 10 gallon corny full of glycol in a chest
freezer has its limitations. The problem is that there is very loose
coupling between the freezers evaporator and the glycol. It takes a long
time to chill 10 gallons of glycol in a chest freezer and once the
glycol is warmed (as by running through an external coil) it will take
hours to cool it down enough for it to be used again.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Censorship of incoming e-mail is the fault of neither the bean counters
nor the HR people - it is the lawyers keeping the management in
perpetual fear that the company can be held liable if some minority or
female type overhears the fellows laughing about a piece of email which
is "offensive" to them. And of course the corporation can be held liable
as has been shown time and time again in the courts. Thank your
government for this situation.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The easiest way to deal with chloramine is to add 1 Campden tablet to
each 20 gallons of brew water. Crumble it up and stir it around. The
second best alternative is a GAC or GAC/KDF filter. If these are
installed as whole house filters you need to worry a little about water
from which disinfectant has been removed standing in your pipes.



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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:23:28 -0700
From: "lauritsm" <lauritsm at email.msn.com>
Subject: re:jMail order supplies???

I would suggest Art's Brewing Supplies in Salt Lake City(we aren't all
stodgy here). he has a very comprehensive website:
www.users.qwest.net/~artsbrew/
His prices are about 20% lower than The Beer Nut here and the service is
more personal. He will ship where ever you like and is quite prompt.

M





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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:18:47 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Beer Transport Data Point, et al

Hi,

A while back, I explained that I was preparing to transport a cornie of
Oktoberfest brew to the site of our club Oktoberfest some 40 miles away.
The empty keg was purged with several blasts of CO2 (I know, the purging
controversy) followed by venting from the relief valve.  The beer was
tranferred using CO2 from secondary (carbonated and cold) to the
presurized, "purged" cornie using back pressure technique to prevent undue
foaming.  The beer was loaded cold into the back of my uncovered pick'em up
truck.

Upon arrival, the cornie was iced down, pressure build up relieved, and
then hooked up with about 12 psi for serving from a jockey box.  Beer was
tasty and almost all gone by the end.  It tasted fine, and this was further
supported by the amount remaining in the keg.

Now, my idea was to take the keg back home and hook it up to my taps for
further analysis next to a keg of the same, non-transported brew.
Unscientific, side-by- side comparison by yours truly could discern no
obvious deleterious effects of transport.  In fact, I kind of preferred the
transported stuff.  Sadly, any further, more scientific testing will have
to wait, as the keg of transported O'fest was "kicked" (American keg jargon
for "there ain't no more" for those who are American jargon impaired) last
night.  Doh!  Just a data point.

On another subject, has anyone ever observed increased hangover effects
from beer lines, beer faucets that have not been cleaned recently?  While
doing sampling of the above brew in preparation for our club Oktoberfest
(had to make sure it was OK), it seemed to cause a hangover with as few as
two pints the night before.

While doing some other cleaning, I decided that my lines/faucets needed
cleaning.  I boiled some water (couple gallons) and poured it hot into a
cornie with some Beer Line Cleaner.  I ran this soln., hot through my beer
lines.  It really cut the build up.  I disassembled my faucets and soaked
them in this.  I then reassembled and ran more soln. through.  Following
this ,the beer tasted better and I swear the hangover effect was much
reduced.  Am I imagining this?  Anybody have any similar experience?


Hope this helps,

Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA






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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:22:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Elsassa Hops info. request

"Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au> of Geelong Vic. Australia has 
only been able to find

>that Elsassa are a low yielding old French variety.

I suspect that this is a spelling variant of "Alsatian," suggesting 
this is a geographic name meaning that they originated in Alsace. 
They probably are continental in nature as opposed to English.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:41:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject:  Green Bottles & light

In HBD#3445 Warren White asks.....



>I generally put my just-filled bottles in a wooden cabinet for about a 
>week 
>to carbonate, in this cabinet I usually have a 40 to 100 watt pearl 
>lightbulb as a heat-source.

>My problem being is that half of my batch have been bottled in green 
>bottles, (it's a Tripel). I know that direct sunlight and even 
>fluroescent 
>lights can render beers light-struck and useless in a very short period 
>of 
>time.

>What about normal light bulbs? I'm presuming that they do not give off 
>UV 
>rays, which supposedly do all the damage (just guessing here).

I have used incondesent light bulbs to provide heat for a fermenter.
The fermenter would be a clear glass carboy.  I did not like the idea of a
light
bulb shining onto the fermenting beer.  So, the light bulb is in a vented
wooden  box.  There is a biscit fan pushing air through the box so the heat can
fill the 
space with the carboy.

I better descibe the whole story.
The carboy and the heat source is in an expired chest freezer.  This gives me
an insulated box for the whole works.  The carboy sits in the freezer at one
thermostat that controls the light bulb.  It is turned on if the temp is too
low.  The fan runs if the light bulb is on.

I also have used this when the temp of the basement is below 60F.
I have also use it to bottle condition when temps are low.

I need to give credit to my brewing partner, Bill Van Vugt, for building this.

I have not answered Warren's question, but this is how I handled the concern. 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/


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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:48:36 -0600 
From: "Richard B. Dulany Jr." <RDulany at co.el-paso.tx.us>
Subject: Another on-line supply house

Another mail-order/on-line supply house that I've been quite pleased with is
Midwestern Homebrew Supply:
http://www.midwestsupply.com

Their ingredient kits are particularly nice.

Richard "just a customer" Dulany 
El Paso, TX


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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:03:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bob Sweeney <bobsweeney at email.com>
Subject: $40 submersible pump/weird fermentation science

Steve Johnson opines,
 "Final solution was to get a $40 submersible pump (which I had 
 bought anyway to pump out my basement when we get those gully 
 washer thunderstorms around here in the spring that dump 5
 inches of rain in one day!) that recirculates the ice water
 through the counterflow chiller and back into the recepticle (a
 30 gal. plastic garbage can). "

 Steve (or anyone), I'm using a $5 drill pump to do something
 similar but with an immersion chiller however I'd love to have
 one of those $40 submersible ones. Where did you get yours if 
 you don't mind my asking.


 **

 Recently I did (or tried to do, the jury is still out) my first
 pilsner after finally acquiring a beer fridge (yippeee).
 However, probably because my enthusiasm exceeded by experience
 I goofed when getting my yeast (White Labs pitchable German
 lager) ready and pitching it. First, after warming the yeast to
 room temp I pitched into a 1 quart starter at 50 degrees for a
 couple of days. Even though I saw much less activity in the
 starter than I'm used to with ale yeasts I pitched into 75
 degree wort (10 gallon batch with grain bill consisting of 13
 lbs Munstons[sp] 6-row, 1 lb carapils, 1 lb 10L crystal, 1 lb
 wheat). I immediately put these carboys into a 50 degree fridge
 where they sat with just about zero activity for almost 3 days.
 Panic setting in, I started and a day later pitched some Wyeast
 1056 ale yeast I'd saved from my last brew, raised the fridge
 temp up to 68 degrees and a day after that had normal yeast
 activity. 

 The weird part is the appearance of the wort within the carboy.
 On top is a normal layer of crud, below that about 1 inch of
 relatively clear wort, but below that appears to be some new
 type of substance I've created which looks to be semi-solid,
 whitish with the consistency of snot. This blob takes up the
 entire bottom area of the carboy and I'm just wondering what it
 is or might be (and if its something good, should I patent the
 process now). Is this just massive cold break? Sound opinions,
 conjectures, or WAGss about what exactly I've created and what
 effect this will have on my finished beer would all be
 appreciated.
- --
Bob Sweeney
Mobile, AL

By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad
one, you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates
- -----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address  at email.com
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:48:32 -0400
From: Tony Verhulst <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Welding SS

How can I tell if a welding shop is qualified to make "sanitary" welds
in a stainless steel pot (Volrath)?  An advertisement in the yellow
pages saying that the shop does stainless steel seems insufficient.

Tony


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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:45:03 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1 at email.msn.com>
Subject: lights on bottles, transport damage and a special Halloween treat

I have been catching up on my HBD since I was away at the Siebel course
(great course by the way) and I see a couple of items I can help with.

Warren White asked about potential light damage to his beer in his aging box
with a light bulb for heat.  If it tastes skunky, then it's light struck.
Let us know, maybe the low wattage light will not have much impact, but I
would not be surprised if it does as a white light emits a complete spectrum
of light, including blue and green, which is what causes a beer to get light
struck.  I use a temperature controller and a hair dryer in an old fridge in
my garage when winter hits!  The temperature is controlled and there is no
light issue.  You could also use a heating pad, just remember to use a
temperature controller or you will overheat your beer and heat damage is
bad.  The folks at Siebel told us that the two most important things that
have a negative impact on beer flavor stability are 1)post ferment oxygen
pickup and 2)heat.

This works me into the question Rod Prather had on transport damage.  I
asked a Siebel instructor specifically about 'transport damage' since it was
being discussed here on the HBD right before I started class.  The only
possible transport damage is heat or light(assuming light struck damage).
Vibration has no impact on the flavor.  Of course any oxygen pickup on
packaging will prematurely age the beer, but for us homebrewers, where yeast
is still present in the beer, the oxygen is taken up very quickly.  In fact,
if we keep the bottled beer cold (near freezing)with out filtering out the
yeast it will be flavor stable for 4 months or maybe even longer.  The
problem that commercial brewers have is that they have to take the yeast out
to make it nice and clear, this also means that they have no real flavor
stability and the beer begins to change as soon as it leaves the brewery.
This is especially a problem when it isn't kept cold on the grocery store
shelves.

Now for the Halloween treat........the ghost of HSA.  That's right, the
ghost, HSA was described at Siebel as a possible brewing ghost (in other
words it may well not exist at all).  HSA was brought up by Japanese brewers
who were making a light, dry lager (remember the 'dry'beers?)  The test
results were INCONCLUSIVE, but IF there is any impact from HSA, it would
only apply to LIGHT DRY LAGER that will be exposed to adverse conditions,
like living on a grocery store shelf for a year.  I don't know about you,
but I don't make LIGHT DRY LAGER, nor do my beers sit on a grocery store
shelf for a year.  Therefore, if you are like me, you don't have to worry
about HSA.  Having said that, it certainly won't hurt to avoid HSA, but
really, you should concentrate on being more anal about post fermentation
aeration.

Rich Sieben
Bean counter by profession and it's not me, but the LAN Nazi's who don't
like you language!

Island Lake, IL





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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:28:00 -0700
From: "Peter Zien" <pz.jdzinc at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Preserving Fruit Flavor

I have been studying up in anticipation of making an apple cider.  My
homebrew club, QUAFF, has organized a cider run to Julian, Ca., where we
will fill our fermenters with freshly pressed apple cider.  According to The
New Brewer magazine, a popular method to sweeten draft cider is to add fresh
cider or apple concentrate to the finished alcoholic cider.  My questions:
1. Why doesn't the addition of the new sugars (fresh cider or apple
concentrate) simply ferment away, since viable yeast likely still exists,
leaving the cider unsweetened?   2. Or must steps be taken to arrest the
fermentation, like quick chill or filtration?   Although I'm talking about
apple cider here, the questions seem to apply to preserving fruit flavor in
beer as well.  (Ever had a New Glarus Apple Ale, Belgian Red, or Raspberry
Tart from Wisconsin?)  Comments and suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter Zien



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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:51:14 -0400
From: Andy Buhl <buhlandr at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Immersion Heater Elements

    With a few snow flakes predicted to fall this weekend here in
Michigan, I can't help but to consider the options available for indoor
brewing.  More specifically, I was wondering what electric immersion
heater systems others have had success with.  I am not necessarily
looking for a RIMS type system, just a reasonable replacement for my
propane burner that I could use indoors and plug into a standard 120
volt outlet.  Other priorities for me would be:

 -$$$; the cheaper, the better.
 -Safety.
 -Simplicity; refer to above.

Thanks,

Andy Buhl



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