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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  your hbd post (ensmingr)
  Combi-Tuns: A Contrarian Opinion (Christopher Farley)
  Barleywine carbonation ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Rum, Bum And Gramophone Records ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Defining Terms. Roasted Grains and Brains. ("Dr. Pivo")
  is Stevia safe, and / or good for brewers? ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  How is Zymurgy / AHA these days? ("Ray Daniels")
  Scorched flavor ("Craig Lefevre")
  Heating freezers, etc (fridgeguy)
  RE: In Line Oxygenation ("Tim Johnson")
  Lager Yeast ("Wayne & Janet Aldrich")
  Re:  retrieving bungs from carboys (JDPils)
  re: mashing too cool explains 50% efficiency? ("Stephen Alexander")
  transfering mash & a question (Beaverplt)
  Stainless Chiller (Aaron Perry)
  flaked oats ("Paul Mahoney")


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:59:05 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: your hbd post

Steve,

I was in Napa valley and northern California just a few
weeks ago. I recommend Hakusan Sakery (
http://www.hakusan.com/ ) in southern Napa valley, and North
Coast Brewing Company ( http://ncoast-brewing.com/ ) in Fort
Bragg (Mendocino county).

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY

Hello:

My soon to be wife and I are planning to go to California
next fall (sept,
oct, or nov) to see breweries for me and wineries for both
of us.  I would
like to start the trip in Southern California and work my
way up to Northern
California.  We should have probably about 1 to 2 weeks for
vacation.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what places offer
tours of both
breweries and wineries?  Any web sites?

Thanks
Private emails are welcome.

Steve





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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:14:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Combi-Tuns: A Contrarian Opinion

> From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
> Subject: Mash to lauter transfer
> 
> I played around with separate mash and lauter tuns for about a year before
> switching to a combination mash-lauter tun for the following reasons:

I played around with a combination mash/lauter tun for several months
before switching back to a separate mash-lauter tun for the following
reasons:

1. Geometry. Most commonly constructed lauter tuns are pretty
vertical. My lauter tun (an insulated 6 gallon bucket with Phil's Phalse
Bottom) is a very vertical tun.  Pulling a decoction out of a Gott Cooler
or a bucket-style lauter tun is pretty messy. Instead, my mash tun is an 8
gallon ceramic kettle at least 18" in diameter.

2. I never have to worry much about a floating false bottom, or dislodging
any of the plumbing when I stir my mash.

3. As I primarily decoction mash, I transfer just before the final
decoction, and use the tun itself to pull out the 'thin mash'. I may lose
heat, but it is fully restored after the final decoction.
 
4. Waiting for a filter bed to form is a perfect time to cook a burrito.

5. I worked at a brewery that used a separate mash/lauter tun, so that's
probably where I got the idea.

Admittedly, as most brewers practice infusion mashing, this might not be
the best approach. Transferring to the lauter tun is indeed messy and
possibly HSA-inducing if you believe in that sort of thing. A
Combi-tun, I'm sure, is the overwhelming choice of most brewers.
 
>  -CHUCK- asks:
>
> PS - anybody ever had Moretti's "La Rosa"? It's my current favorite, but 
> tough to find.

After drinking a few 18 plato "La Rosas", a lot of things are tough to
find.

Chris



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:58:06 +0000
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Barleywine carbonation

Chuck has a problem getting his precious barleywine to carbonate.

I've had the same problem with barleywines and I think the problem is not
alcohol intolerance of the yeast but the fact that the yeast simply are not
very healthy in general after such a fermentation.  I'm assuming Chuck has
bottled all of his barleywine and offer the following.

I have successfully carbonated bottles of barleywine that would not
carbonate using methods that always worked for standard brews by rehydrating
adding the rehydrated yeast to each bottle using a pipet. (Decrown, add
yeast, recrown.)  These healthy yeast seem to be able to pick up the job
where the others left off and will carbonate your bottles.

You should probably peform a little calculation to take advantage of the
amount of yeast you have and get as much as you can into each bottle.  For
example, if you have 50 bottles and each bottle can accept 4 mL of
rehydrated yeast (or whatever starter culture you use), then you will need 4
mL x 50 = 200 mL yeast.  (I'd make it up to 225 to ensure that you have
enough volume to work with.)
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:08:27 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Rum, Bum And Gramophone Records

I am very pleased that Jeff Renner had lots of kind words to say about my
rice lager.
I'm also very pleased that so many HBD contributors had a chance to try it.
I'd like to be able to identify just who is who in the photo.

It is only a little over three years ago that I started making beer at all.
But from day one, I resolved that I was never going to take "second best" as
good enough. I'm not talking about competition results here. I've never been
in any competition  and don't intend to.
I just love the concept of making very good beer at home.

Jeff Renner has given me a lot of good info on cereal beers, and how to make
them.
Doc Pivo inspired me with his contagious attitude on all matters relating to
making beer.
Steve Alexander drives me around the bend but I take my hat off to him for
his scientific input.
Dave Burley? Well I take my helmet off to him.
Pat Babcock? You really have to be a special guy.

Now about the photo.
Jeff, I see lots of guys hanging over the billiard table but only one lady.
I might not deliver with photos,
But here at Burradoo,
The girls out number the boys, and there is not much left to the imagination
when they "hang over the billiard table".

Jeff Renner sadly reflects "I got married the day before the start of the
sexual revolution" (I'm talking 1960's here).
I can relate to that.
In my early years I spent quite some time in the bush and having been used
to a city life of wine ,women and song,
I was shocked to find there was nothing out there but rum, bum and
gramophone records.

Now to my horror,
I discover the sick Doc Pivo making a rapid recovery with my wife!!

But more on that later.

Cheers
Phil









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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:27:48 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Defining Terms. Roasted Grains and Brains.

There seems to be some ambiguous terminology used here, based on
regional dialectical differences.

Drawing from "The Cornucopia of Useless Information" (that is, 3 out of
the 5 synapses that are still functioning within my head), perhaps I can
help:

A gentleman from the northern part of the British Island wonders if the
word "wanker" is not common throughout the English speaking world.....
It would seem that the word "wanker" has been spawned in a more modern
era of the British Empire, and while common in say, Britain and
Australia, is largely unknown and unused on the North American
continent.

Where a great deal of the wankers themselves are being spawned I would
not care to speculate on.

Phil Yates suggests I take a "Bex, and a 'cuppa, and a good lie down". 
This is, once again an expression that would be entirely foreign to
North Americans.... I'll digress....

"Bex" was a wonderfull little powdered product in a sachet, that
advertised itself, targeting worn out housewifes, and admonishing them
to spoil themselves a bit with the above advice. I believe a campaign
that peaked late 60's early 70's.

Bex contained caffeine to give them a little rush and get them addicted.
and "Fenacetin" (I'm quite sure not spelled thus in English), which in
overdose blew their kidneys right out of their bloomers.

Ah yes, "Bex", the product that made "dialysis" a household word.

It may comfort people to know that Fenacetin is now illegal in a large
part of the world.

It may be distressing to hear that I've recently seen it sold over the
counter in places like Malaysia.

Phil's concern for my well being is touching, as I am afraid he feared
I'd "gone over the edge"..... to that I can only plead "Nolo
Contendere".

And whilst on the subject of "over edging".... How 'bout that Graham
Sanders?

Surely you've read his fine and detailed reports on grain roasting?

Now imagine this. He is living in "Townsville" (The ingenuity in the
naming of this town, is quite a typical example of the sort of language
redundancy used in Queensland.....the capital of which is
"Citysburg") where the temperature is seldom below 40C (that's about 100
"Frankfurters" for the measurement heathens), and the humidity NEVER
below 100 percent.

This is a place where people build their houses on stilts, in the faint
hope that they might SOME DAY catch a cooling breeze, and there is
Graham squatting in front of an open oven door stirring his grains!!!

Now if that wouldn't turn your brain to mush, I don't know what would!

I'm quite sure that SWMBO is now "She Who Must Buy his Oral medication".

At any rate, some very dedicated work and fine information.  I have but
three comments/ additions to it.

1) While I can quite easily create the colours of malts like Crystal and
Muenchner, I have never been able to recreate their flavours, and
assumed it was an innate aspect of them being roasted "wet" , and that
it couldn't be done starting with a dry malt.... I will be the first to
admit that I obviously haven't spent the hours sweltering in front of
the oven that Graham has, so perhaps he knows better.

2) After visiting Guinness and looking first hand at their roasted
barley, and having a few hectares of barley planted, I solicited
roasting advice on this forum. One piece I received from Emanuel Kuhanek
was to use a "screen tray" rather than a flat baking plate, for more
even heat distribution, which makes a lot of sense.

3) Graham suggests that "fresh roasted" is better than keeping it around
for awhile. I will admit that I am guilty of have given the same advice,
and this dates all the way back to Dave Lines in the 70's, using the
analogy... "It's like coffee... better with fresh roasted beans."

I might point out that this is a cup of coffee that might sit around for
6 weeks, at which point the freshness of the roast may be mute.  It MAY
be that all the lovely aromatic qualities that we percieve in the fresh
roasted grains, do not make it through to the final beer.

I only point this out because this may well be another case of "what
appeals to our intuition, could be entirely wrong." 

And yes, thanks again for all the "get well cards". I am recovering
nicely. I am certainly not helped by Phil whispering obscenities in my
ear, or behaving like the waiter in "The Meaning of Life" who serves
Mister Creosote. Phil is continually prancing around me holding a can of
VB and saying: "just one teeny, tiny sip".

No, it's good old TLC that has been the go..... I just wonder why Jill
only gives me my "special" physical therapy when Phil's off flying, and
why I'm not supposed to tell him about it?

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:52:10 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: is Stevia safe, and / or good for brewers?

I recently was told of "stevia", a natural sweetner from S. 
America,...is this stuff ok for brewing?  Does is have any 
mono, or other saccharides that can be broken down by 
yeasties, or can it be used (safely?) to increase residual 
sweetness in brews?

 ..Darrell

- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:28:40 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: How is Zymurgy / AHA these days? 


OK.  For the record, I take personal responsibility for inclusion of the
"F-word" in a Zymurgy article.  Chalk it up to my learning curve as an
editor.  Frankly, the word appeared as part of the dialog in the story and
it was such a realistic presentation of daily life that I didn't even notice
it.  When we got the letter to the editor, I had to go back and look at the
article to see what he was talking about.

To all who were offended, I apologize.  I'll do my best to make sure it
doesn't happen again on my watch.

As for the rest of the story, I liked it and many other readers did as well.
Unfortunately every article can't be perfect for every reader.  My goal is
to provide a range of material that appeals to most readers most of the
time.  While my assessment of that has been fairly anecdotal so far, I hope
to institute a survey method during 2001 that will give me a solid handle on
this for every issue.

Meanwhile, the Nov/Dec issue will be mailing in the next few days, so be on
the lookout for the first installment of "For Geeks Only" with studies on a
national palate calibration program for beer judges and how to calibrate the
temperature on a SABCO RIMS system.

Cheers,

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
E-mail:  ray at aob.org





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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:36:04 MDT
From: "Craig Lefevre" <cearll at hotmail.com>
Subject: Scorched flavor

through inattention I managed to scorch the some of the
grain in my last batch of beer. Do any brewers out
there know how to elimniate this flavor or do I use this batch for drain 
cleaner? Any help would be appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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http://profiles.msn.com.



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:04:21 -0400
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Heating freezers, etc

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #3457, Eric Murray asked about heating a freezer during winter
months. I'd suggest unplugging the freezer so the compressor cannot
run when ambient temperatures fall below your desired lagering
temperature. The reason for this is that refrigerant will tend to
condense in the coldest parts of an idle system. When the outside of a
fridge is colder than its interior, it is possible for the compressor
to be where refrigerant condenses.

 The compressor itself runs in an oil bath in the bottom of the
compressor housing and draws refrigerant vapor from near the top.
Refrigerant is a wonderful solvent and any that condenses in the
compressor housing will mix with and dilute the compressor oil,
raising the oil level in the housing.

  The compressor housing is located on the "low side" of the system
between the capillary tube and the compressor intake. If/when the
compressor starts, any liquid refrigerant will flash into a vapor,
which will turn the compressor oil into a froth, filling the
compressor housing. This froth will be drawn into the compressor.

 There are two potential problems with this: First is oil starvation
during a period when the compressor is working hardest since the oil
is being pumped into the rest of the system along with the
refrigerant. Second is the possibility that the compressor will ingest
a slug of liquid, which won't compress. Either can spell disaster for
the compressor.

 If the external temperature controller can be wired so its contacts
"open on rise" (to use Johnson's term), it can be used to control a
small heat source inside the freezer cabinet. There are many suitable
heating devices - I use a carafe heater from a dead Mr. Coffee,
connected to a temperature controller and a common lamp dimmer to
limit how much heat it produces.

 If you need to run the compressor during cold periods, place a heat
source near the compressor to keep it above the freezer interior
temperature.

Also in HBD #3457, Cass Buckley has an upright freezer that runs too
cold and asked whether it's usable for brewing. Certainly it is! An
external temperature controller is available at many homebrew
suppliers. The freezer can simply be plugged into the controller, and
the controller into a wall receptacle.

 The evaporator coils in the shelves will likely frost over when the
compressor runs. That's ok. The external controller will shut the
compressor off when the air temperature in the freezer reaches the
desired setpoint. If the differential on the controller is adjustable,
set it for 5 degrees or so to help prevent short-cycling the
compressor.

 Some rare upright freezers are frost-free. If yours is, this feature
will likely be displayed proudly on the door. I'd suggest disabling
the defrost timer, which won't be needed when the freezer is used for
brewing.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


- --
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:25:21 +0100
From: "Tim Johnson" <tim at pinsandneedles.org.uk>
Subject: RE: In Line Oxygenation

>
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Steve <brewguy99 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: In Line Oxygenation
>
> Hi all,
>
> Brad Miller asked about installing a 'sparge stone'
> inline on the outlet of a counterflow chiller. I can't
> really answer this question directly, but I will give
> an idea of how to do it after I explain what I do.
> I've put a gif on my web site to show you what I mean.
> http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/aerater.htm.

This is a system I've been using for some time now, the variation being that
I inject medical grade O2. Here's a link to my system.
http://www.pinsandneedles.org.uk/wortaerator.htm


Regards,

Tim
- --
Tim Johnson, Head Brewer, Pinpoint Brewery
Boston, Lincolnshire, UK
email: Tim at pinsandneedles.org.uk
web: http://www.pinsandneedles.org.uk
ICQ 41702202




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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:57:51 +0200
From: "Wayne & Janet Aldrich" <Aldrich4 at surf1.de>
Subject: Lager Yeast

Hello, I'm a long time reader first time poster.  
I have had mixed success with all grain brewing for 
about a year. I usually brew ales (kolsch or hefeweizen).  
I have attempted several lagers with mixed results, 
mostly poor. My question is about starters, I always make 
up a yeast starter about 2 days before I brew.  
Since lager yeast likes cooler bottom fermenting temperatures 
should I pitch my starter at lager temps i.e. 50 deg or so?  
Thanks in advance for any responses.

Wayne Aldrich   Aldrich4 at surf1.de

Wayne Aldrich





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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:07:01 EDT
From: JDPils at aol.com
Subject: Re:  retrieving bungs from carboys

Kevin,

This happened to me on a 1 gallon jug with an Octoberfest recipe.  i would up 
with Rubber Fest and it had to be poured out!  I would advise transferring 
immediately to another carboy.  I suspect the longer the beer is on the 
rubber the worse it wil get.  

As for removing it, I used a coat hanger and a lot of patience.

Cheers,

Jim Dunlap
Woodinville WA


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:14:09 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: mashing too cool explains 50% efficiency?

Jay Pfaffman writes ...

<<
I've been an all-grain brewer for about 6 batches now.  I've gotten
horrible yields on every beer I've made.  For example, yesterdays 21lb
grain bill (19 pale, 1 amber malt, 1 torrified wheat) yielded 6
gallons of 1.062 wort when it should have yielded 10 gallons of 1.059
wort (even at a paltry 75% efficiency).
>>

Such errors in mash temp and pH can make modest dent
in efficiency but ....
  newbie all grainer + poor extraction = sparge problems.

Using the conventional fiction, 6gal  at  62degrees = 372 degree-gallons
[1408 deg-L for those of the MKS persuasion], using 21lbs [9.525kg]
your extraction rate is 17.7 degree-gal/lb [148 deg-L/kg].  For 38%
absolute efficiency or about 50% brewhouse efficiency.  Good HB
extraction is 70% absolute, 90% brewhouse, or about 32.5 pt-gal/lb
[270deg-L/kg].  Commercial brewers may get 100% brewhouse efficiency
and it's entirely possible (tho' not desirable re quality) to do better.

Such low extraction rates are the norm in my experience) for newbie
all-grainers.

A mash temp of 145F is not, by itself, a cause for very low efficiency
from a well modified malt.  I've gotten over 30deg-gal/lb from a
similar temp and no mash-out. You will gain some extraction points
with higher rests and a mashout step, *BUT* the gain will be modest..
You are now getting 17.7 deg-gal/lb, I doubt that a temp control will get
you past 22deg-gal/lb, probably less.  I'm assuming your total mash
time was at least an hour and you used 1.2 to 1.6qt/lb  of water in the
mash.

>which leads me to believe that my
>thermometer might not have been that far off. 

Check it against ice water (long rest) and boiling water (correct for
altitude) or a high quality thermometer.  Then tag-mark any correction
directly on you thermometer - esp for the 140F-165F range. Typical
kitchen thermometers even digitals can be horribly far off .  A good
reliable thermometer is a useful tool, but it's unlikely to be a source
of major extraction loss.

>The initial runnings from our mash were about 10.70.  We sparged
>though a 10 gallon Gott with a phil's bottom for about 30 minutes.
>Final runnings were about 1.020.  We stopped then because the gravity
>of the wort was already lower than we were aiming for.  Does this
>suggest a problem with my sparging?

You almost certainly lost extract in the sparge. It's not the hardware;
Phil's  have a good reputation.  It's your technique (30 minute sparge).

1/ Temperature correct your SG readings.
Uncorrected SG readings become very bad at high
temperatures.  If you float a hydrometer in runoff temp
wort it will read low by 0.010 to 0.020 so a temp correction
is absolutely needed.

2/ Know your target into the kettle.
With a 12%loss during a 90 minutes boil your  target
(10gal,   1.059) should have been around 11.5gal and 1.051
(temp corrected ) going into the boiler. Most HBers get even
higher boiloff rates and you will lose some liquid with the
break. 12gal  at 1.050 into the kettle is more realistic for a
full 10gal result.  Keep records and figure your own boiloff 
for future calculations.

* Most important  *
3/ Get your sparge time up to 1+ hour. 
Probably the biggest newbie error is to sparge fast (or variable)
and leave a lot of sugar in the grist.  You can experiment with
backing off this time after you are able to get 30 deg-gal/lb on a
regular basis.  Your hardware and your tolerance for low efficiency
will ultimately dictate the sparge time, but 45 minutes is a practical
minimum for most systems and you will usually be losing points
with such a short sparge.

I highly recommend a putting a valve in-line with your sparge outlet. 
You can use barbed fittings and put it right in the tubing..  Adjust the
valve during the vorlauf(recirulation) for the desired rate.  In the
example above you wanted to collect 12gal into the kettle over roughly
75 minutes.  That's about 20 fluid ounces per minute  (about 10fl.oz/min
for a 5 gal batch).  Direct the vorlauf into a liquid measure and use
a wristwatch to actually measure the flow rate.  Once the flow rate is
adjusted leave the valve alone for the rest of the sparge.

There are advocates for no-sparge brewing (where 17-21
deg-gal/lb is normal).  I've experimented and personally feel
that there are certain flavor, head and haze reducing properties in
the middle runnings that would be a shame to lose.  What is
unchallenged is that very late runnings are negative.  SG1.015
(temp corrected) is a reasonable stopping point and well above
commercial standards..  If your final runnings  are as warm as
mine your hydrometer reading (uncorrected) should be slightly
above 1.000 when you stop.

With some experience the  flow rate and runoff SG measurements
becomes unnecessary, tho still a good discipline.

As a beginner you'll have significant variation in you extraction
results.  You can to some extent increase the boil-off or
dilute with a water addition into the kettle to control final SG.  If the
volume or SG are significantly off you should know this at the start
of the boil and adjust your hopping accordingly.

Also DON'T make extraction efficiency a quest.  If you can
get 27+ deg-gal/lb and good quality from a conventional
recipe you have no need to worry about efficiency for HB
scale brewing.  At that point pay attention to quality.

 -S




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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: transfering mash & a question

I saw a few reply's to Chad's question on transfering
mash from the mash to the lautertun. I agree that the
best transfer is no transfer at all, but I'm not sure
if anyone answered the question. I also did my first
grain batch recently and ran into the dilema of buying
a combination tun or using what I had and transfering.
I decided on the later and when it came time to
transfer the mash I used a 2 quart measuring cup and
worked as quickly as I could to minimize heat loss. It
was the best I could think of at the time. I'd be
interested in knowing how other newbies tackled this
problem before they went more "high tech".

Chad, I also loved your decription of the process. I
was really lucky with my first all grain in that I
actually kept things pretty clean. I'm embarrasssed to
say my misadventures with extract sound as messy as
yours with all grain. What makes it worse is SWMBO
loves to embellish on some of my brewing adventures
with our friends.

My question is this: I've read some things about
aerating the wort. Considering we all know that air is
bad for beer, I'm wondering why I would do this. I'm
guessing it is beneficial in the brewing process and
bad for the finished product. I probably missed
something in my reading and I hope this isn't a stupid
question. 

The beer drinking rodent
Beaver

__________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:58:17 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Stainless Chiller

Hi All,

I just got a roll of about 50 feet of stainless steel .5 in I.D. tubing. I was
thinking about making a new chiller. Dose anyone have an idea as to the heat
transfer of stainless compared to copper? My thinking is that copper is more
efficient..... but stainless should outlast it. Also, at .5 in it may work
out. The other fix I'm in is how to tighten the coil. It's too big to fit in
the keg as is.....but it is pretty hard to bend. Mabey I'll pull it tight
around a form?

Any Ideas or info would be much appreciated

thanks,
AP 
- -- 
"Just think, I turned to a cult for mindless happiness,
when I had beer all along..."
Homer J. Simpson


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:52:45 -0400
From: "Paul Mahoney" <pmmaho at earthlink.net>
Subject: flaked oats

Craft Brewers:
  While rummaging around in the kitchen cupboards today, I found two
cartons of rolled oats (to make oatmeal): one is labeled "Old Fashioned
Oats" and the other "Quick Oats".   Both are products under the Kroger
brand (a large grocery chain in the Mid-Atlantic states).  The directions
for the Old Fashioned Oats is to bring water to a boil, add oats, reduce
heat and cook for 5-6 minutes. The quick oats directions are to bring water
to a boil, add oats, cook for 1 minute.  Both say to remove from heat, let
stand for 2-3 minutes, then serve.
   I have seen much discussion on the HBD about adding oats to craft beers.
The archives contain LOTS of references and discussion.  But I am still
confused.  I want to add .5# (8 oz., or 225 grams) of oats to my brew.  If
I add rolled oats (since I already have it in my cupboard), what procedure
do I have to follow?
   If I had flaked oats, I could add it directly to my mash with the other
grains. Easy, no extra work.  Just like adding crystal malts.  Correct?
   But if I add rolled oats, then I must do something else.  Must I mix the
rolled oats with a small amount of crushed malt (equal proportions?), rest
at conversion temperature (150' F?)for some length of time (20 minutes?),
then bring to a boil for 20 minutes, then add to the main mash?
   The latter is my interpretation of Dave Miller's directions
("Homebrewing Guide", page 70-71, double mashing with unmalted cereal
grains).  I am assuming that rolled oats are an unmalted cereal grain.
   Further on page 313 Miller is giving a recipe for Oatmeal Stout,and he
states: "Note that the recipe specifies flaked oats made specifically for
brewing. Do not substitute rolled oats (oatmeal)if you expect to sparge in
a reasonable amount of time."
   I want to use my rolled oats, not buy flaked oats specifically for
brewing.  So, shall I follow Miller's directions for using unmalted cereal
grains? Or do I just add the "Quick Oats" to the mash like flaked oats,
since the quick oats directions call for a 1 minute boil (to make oatmeal),
while the old fashioned oats call for a 5-6 minutes cook? Is there a
difference in brewing usage for these two products, or are they identical
(for brewing usage)? 
   Will 8 oz. of rolled oats in an 8 # grain bill substantially lengthen my
sparge (I use a 5 gallon Igloo with a CPVC manifold)?
   Thanks.  


- --- Paul Mahoney
    Roanoke, Va.
    Star City Homebrewers Guild
- --- pmmaho at earthlink.net
Redskins and Homebrew, what more could a man want!




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