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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  competition announcement (Jim Hinken)
  Mash to lauter transfer (Ant Hayes)
  All grain attempt (Brad McMahon)
  Small quantities of Star San ("Walter H. Lewis III")
  Re: All-Grain Attempt and Combi-tun (Matthew Comstock)
  California ("Hill, Steve")
  RE: Star San ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Re: Rye in Pre Pro Lager? ("patrick finerty jr.")
  IMBR? (chuck calvert)
  Thermometer calibration (David Harsh)
  How is Zymurgy / AHA these days? (Nathan Kanous)
  Heating a freezer ("Murray, Eric")
  Re: Rye in Pre Pro Lager? (Jeff Renner)
  American Brewery History Page (Jeff Renner)
  Honey character (Keith Busby)
  RE: In Line Oxygenation (Steve)
  Honey Character (Petr Otahal)
  DMS musings ("Dave Sapsis")
  Freezer and IPA ?  hm.. ("Cass Buckley")
  Distilled Water Yeast Storage (james r layton)


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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:12:08 -0700
From: Jim Hinken <jhinken at accessone.com>
Subject: competition announcement

Entries are now being accepted for Novembeerfest 2000, the
Pacific Northwest's premier homebrewing competition.  Novembeerfest is
a MCAB qualifying event and will be held  Saturday, November 4 at
Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103, Kent, WA 98032

Three bottles are required for entry with an entry fee of U.S.$5.  The
standard AHA entry form and bottle labels may be used.  Entry forms
may also be downloaded from www.brewsbrothers.org.  Entries will be
accepted between October 8 and October 28, 2000.  They may be shipped
to

Rick Star
7640 NE 123rd St.
Kirkland WA 98034
(425) 821-9388
e-mail: we_stars at msn.com

Entries may also be dropped off at:

Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,Kent, WA 98032,
206-872-6846
Mountain Homebrew and Wine Supply, 8520 122nd Ave NE, Suite #B-6,
Kirkland, WA 98033,  425-803-3996
Cascade Brewing Supplies, 224 Puyallup Ave., Tacoma, WA 98421,
253-383-8980
Rockfish Grill and Brewery, 320 Commercial, Anacortes, WA  98221-1517
360-293-3666

A BJCP exam will also be held at Larry's Brewing Supply on Friday,
November 3.  Contact Alan Moen for details, e-mail
alanmoen at televar.com




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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:12:16 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Mash to lauter transfer

After describing a first attempt at all grain that sounded a lot like my
own, Chad Mundt asked, "What is the easiest/best way to transfer the grains
and wort to my lauter-tun from the mash-tun?"

I played around with separate mash and lauter tuns for about a year before
switching to a combination mash-lauter tun for the following reasons:

1. Transfer is a messy business - hot and sticky stuff going everywhere -
unless you can do it like the big boys with a large bore pump, and a screw
of some sort.

2. I usually lost a lot of heat on transfer, reducing my sparge efficiency.
3. Preheating a separate lauter tun adds another thing to remember.
4. After transfer you have to wait for your filter bed to form.
5. I saw a couple of micro's that used a combination tun.

Phil's Phalse Bottom at the bottom of your spigotted cooler will save you a
lot of hassle (just read the bits on preventing it floating)

I would also avoid the step mash approach until you get your saccrification
part right. For a long time, I used a simple infusion mash at 66C, and it
did the trick.

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:16:40 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: All grain attempt

Hi Chad,
	I laughed so hard when I read your first grain attempt.
Your "disasters" have happened to me, time and time again.
A session doesn't go past where I haven't spilt water or wort
everywhere, hit the wrong temperatures, forgot hop additions or
have plumbing fly apart. I have had stuck mashes. I have sworn at
most major deitys. I have told myself it is too much hard work.
I have collapsed from exhaustion after 7 hours of work to get 55%
extraction rate. I told myself to go back to extract.
Three weeks later I taste the beer and declare it all worth it.

Don't worry Chad it does get easier and you get more organised.
Just a little. :-)

Keep at it!

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, Sth Australia


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:48:39 -0400
From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com>
Subject: Small quantities of Star San

With all the talk about Star san and storage I thought I'd pass along my
trick for getting small quantities of star san.

According to the directions I am to mix 1 oz in 5 gallons of water. I
take 1 oz and mix it with one gallon of water, then when I want a small
quantity of star san I mix MY mix 1 part mix with 4 parts water. This
way I don't have a keg tied up, a carboy tied up just a small easily
stored gallon jug.

Walt



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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 05:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: All-Grain Attempt and Combi-tun

Chad told us about his all-grain initiation!

Chad,

Congrats on the all-grain.  It may or may not
make better beer, but damn do you feel like your
really working for it.  

I enjoy it, but it does eat the time.

Anyways, with regard to your comment/question
about mash-tun to lauter-tun transfer....  Use a
combi-tun and don't transfer at all.  In fact, I
have a hard time thinking about doing it any
other way.

Combi-tun:  mash and lauter in the same
'container.'  I use a bottling bucket wrapped in
that shiny aluminum rescue blanket stuff, held
with a couple belts.  

I have a CPVC drain (all home depot parts and a
hack-saw - easy) and it screws onto the backend
(inside)of the bottling bucket spigot.  I also
have a fine mesh grain bag that I place in the
bucket to hold the grains better.  

I can mash about 15 pounds of grain max and it
holds the temperature pretty well.  When its time
to sparge I just dump a couple quarts on top of
the grain, recirculate about a gallon and then
sparge until my kettle is full.  

No transfers from tun to tun.  

I haven't read Fix but with most 2-row these days
I don't think protein rests are needed.  I just
dough in with 175 - 180 F water and hit my target
150 - 153 F.  That T change is a factor you'll
have to discover for your own setup as heat
capacity of the apparatus plays a role as well as
grain T, etc.

Enjoy the beer, man

Matt in Cincinnati





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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:05:43 -0400
From: "Hill, Steve" <SHill at advanta.com>
Subject: California

Hello:

My soon to be wife and I are planning to go to California next fall (sept,
oct, or nov) to see breweries for me and wineries for both of us.  I would
like to start the trip in Southern California and work my way up to Northern
California.  We should have probably about 1 to 2 weeks for vacation.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what places offer tours of both
breweries and wineries?  Any web sites?

Thanks
Private emails are welcome.

Steve



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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: RE: Star San

howdy,

as an iodophor user, i don't think your understanding of iodine based
sanitizers is correct. once prepared, the solution can be used
repeatedly as long as 1) it maintains its amber color and 2) it is not
exposed to air during storage so that the iodine does not evaporate. 

 -patrick in Toronto

On October 18, 2000, Brian Lundeen wrote:

 > My understanding of iodine based sanitizers is that you can NOT keep a batch
 > made up, they lose their strength too quickly. However, Star San is very
 > good for storing, especially in a sealed container. I keep a batch for a few
 > weeks in a covered pail with no ill effects.


- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
			http://finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:25:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: Rye in Pre Pro Lager?

Alastair asks about using rye in a lager. while i have never brewed a
lager using rye, i did recently make a pale ale containing rye. my
reciped also used 2 lb of rye but it was only 1% of the grist. this
was an all grain batch and they rye was included in the mash but not
milled by me. this may have been an error as i didn't really notice
much of a rye flavor. however the brew did have amazing head retention
and was quite tasty. i'll likely try this again in the next couple of
months since i still have ~4 lbs of rye.

 -patrick in Toronto

On October 18, 2000, alastair wrote:

 > I've just become the proud owner of 2# of flaked rye and was thinking of
 > throwing it in my next batch (pre pro lager from Wyeast 2035). It will make
 > up about 10% of the grist and I'll be using Northern Brewer and Cascades
 >  at  about 35 IBU.
 > 
 > Sounds like a good idea? I'm a rye virgin, so I'm not sure what the results
 > will turn out like. Has anyone done this sort of brew before? I've seen some
 > ale recipes, but no lager type beers. I was planning on something flaked in
 > it (corn or wheat), so the rye may be a sign ;)
 > 
 > Alastair
 > 
 > 

- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
			http://finerty.net/pjf


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Date:  Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:39:44 -0400
From: chuck calvert <calvecg at concentric.net>
Subject: IMBR?

A real newbie-type question from a long term lurker (3 years? 4?)

I made a barleywine, modeled mainly on "Breakfast Barleywine" on Cat's 
Meow. 15lbs of fermentables, IIRC. Like that recipe, after a month with the 
"Abbey II" I racked it onto some sweet mead yeast, to finish off any 
fermentables. The problem is, I added 3/4 cup of corn sugar for bottling, 
and it did *not* carbonate. Not a bit. It's nice and clear, tastes pretty 
good, but too sweet, the sweet tastes sickly-sweet after a while (well, by 
the 3rd one you don't notice anymore -har!). So, I am imploring the Lords 
of Homebrew for help. I was thinking maybe a dry mead yeast would have the 
tolerance to give me some carbonation? Or maybe too much tolerance, and 
give me bottle bombs? To give you some background, I've made 20 or 30 brews 
so far, learned lots of stuff either the hard way or reading this list. 
I've never done full mash and probably never will, and I'm *not* a chemist, 
physicist, nuclear scientist, or poet ;-)  Any suggestions would be 
appreciated.

 -CHUCK-
PS - anybody ever had Moretti's "La Rosa"? It's my current favorite, but 
tough to find.


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:46:47 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Thermometer calibration

The best way to calibrate: 
	Ask around in your club to see if anyone has a NIST traceable
thermometer.  Your science and engineering geeks are the most likely
candidates here.  Have him/her bring it to a meeting and do a
calibration near 150 F.  It is a worthwhile club activity.  You'll be
surprised how incorrect some thermometers can be! Often, when an
instrument lists error of 2%, it means 2% of full scale, not of the
actual reading.  

BTW, Spencer's method is fine if you can't arrange something like this.

Dave Harsh					Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, OH


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:07:49 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: How is Zymurgy / AHA these days?

Hi Everyone,
Glen Pannicke chimes in:

>particular author's hard work)  But now we come to the article in a previous
>issue, which I think was on barleywine, but the point of the article is lost
>due to ramblings of  it's ficticious foul-mouthed characters.  Now I can

Here's my $0.02 on this.  I didn't read the article with the foul 
language.  I did read the letter of concern by one AHA member and the 
editorial response (Ray Daniels, I assume) and I was appalled.

A dues paying member objected to the language used in Zymurgy and the 
editorial response was belittling and condescending to the member's 
objection.  If the truth be known, I find this offensive.

Many may say this is a silly thing to take so seriously and that is their 
prerogative, but I refuse to listen to the local radio stations because of 
the sophomoric morning shows they try to pass off as comedy.  I don't 
expect I'll become a member of the AHA if they can't treat their members 
with a little more dignity.

Feeling high and mighty about myself and putting on my fireproof polyester 
jumpsuit.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:31:59 -0400
From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
Subject: Heating a freezer

How's it going fellow brewers.
It's been a while since I have posted, I've just been lurking.

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to make suggestions on a
simple and predictable way to heat my chest freezer this winter. I have a 15
cubic foot freezer that is currently being controlled with a Johnson temp
controller. I have heard that using a reptile heater may work, but I did not
know how hot that would make the freezer, and if it would over work the
compressor trying to keep it cool. I will need some level of temperature
adjustment, as I plan on doing some lagers in the near future. 

Emails are ok

emurray at sud-chemieinc.com

Thanks

Eric Murray




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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:30:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rye in Pre Pro Lager?

alastair <alastair at odin.he.net> writes


>I've just become the proud owner of 2# of flaked rye and was thinking of
>throwing it in my next batch (pre pro lager from Wyeast 2035). It will make
>up about 10% of the grist and I'll be using Northern Brewer and Cascades
> at  about 35 IBU.
>
>Sounds like a good idea?

Well, it sure won't be a CAP, but do it and let us know!  If you want 
to be more authentic, spring for a couple of bucks worth of flaked 
maize (or rice) and use it instead.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:36:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: American Brewery History Page

HBDers

I just stumbled across the American Brewery History Page at 
http://www.beerhistory.com/.  Lotsa neat links, especially the Beer 
History Library http://www.beerhistory.com/library/, which has what 
looks like a couple of dozen articles.

This is from the first part of the feature article on beer barons:

The Rise of the Beer Barons
by Carl H. Miller

Captain Frederick Pabst strode proudly through the various 
departments of his Milwaukee brewery. Flanked by a guest, New York 
Governor Roswell P. Flowers, the Captain was always at his best when 
showing off his world-class brewery to some visiting dignitary. The 
Governor could not help but to be impressed by the sheer enormity of 
the Pabst operation -- the gargantuan copper brew kettles stretching 
two stories in height, the towering oak fermenters capped by pillows 
of white foam, the endless rows of rotund casks filled with aging 
beer, and the army of busy German workers tending to their various 
duties. The Captain was particularly proud of the brewery's work 
force. Many years spent as a steamship captain on Lake Michigan 
taught him the value of employing only the strongest and fittest men. 
Wishing to boast this to his guest, Pabst could not resist an 
impromptu demonstration.

"You see that fire bucket hanging on the wall?" asked Captain Pabst. 
"Any of my men can fill that pail with beer and drink it down as you 
would a glassful." Turning to a nearby employee to prove it, the 
Captain said in a raised voice, "Isn't that so, Pete?"

"Ja, Herr Captain," replied the worker, "but would you excuse me just 
one minute?"

The worker retreated to an adjacent room. Upon his return, he filled 
the fire bucket with beer, hoisted it to his mouth, and proceeded to 
drain it in one long pull. Amazed and impressed by the feat, the 
Governor and the Captain congratulated the beaming employee and 
proceeded with their tour of the brewery. A curious Captain Pabst 
later asked the worker why it had been necessary to leave the room 
before emptying the bucket. The employee replied, somewhat 
embarrassed, "Vell, Captain, I didn't know for sure could I do it. So 
I just went to try it first."

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:01:24 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Honey character

I don't know about the chemical conditions involved but I once had a Tripel
which developed a honey flavour and aroma after 6 months in the bottle,
this without honey in the recipe. The latter was simply DWC pilsner malt
and candi sugar. I don't recall the yeast used but it was Belgian of some
sort.

Keith Busby


Professor of French
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706

(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve <brewguy99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: In Line Oxygenation

Hi all,

Brad Miller asked about installing a 'sparge stone'
inline on the outlet of a counterflow chiller. I can't
really answer this question directly, but I will give
an idea of how to do it after I explain what I do.

I have just rebuilt my 3-tier gravity brew system,
converting it to a HERMS on 2 tiers and incorporating
a homemade counterflow chiller and a pump. I added a
method of aerating the wort as it comes out of the
chiller. My pump is at the lowest level on my rack,
and I've built the counterflow chiller (3/8 OD
Refrigeration tubing inside 20' of 3/4" ID copper
tubing) into the rack below the Kettle. 

>From the kettle the wort travels thru the chiller,
past a tee with a 1/8" needle valve and a HEPA filter,
and on to the pump. After the boil, as I pump the wort
to the fermenters I crack the needle valve slightly so
there is some air drawn in thru the HEPA filter into
the cooled wort. The pump churns the air into the wort
so that the wort stream into the fermenter is
extremely foamy. After pumping 5.5 gallons of wort
into a 6.8 gallon carboy, there is about 4 inches of
foam on top.

By the way, as I was hoping it would, the addition of
the CF chiller and pump has knocked at least an hour
off of my brew day. It used to take almost an hour to
chill my wort (12 gallons in a Sanke keg kettle) using
an immersion chiller before I could begin racking, but
now I can start racking to the fermenters within 5
minutes after turning off the boiler. I also now fill
2 fermenters much quicker with the pump than with
gravity.

Now to get back to the question: I suppose you could
add an aerating stone in line using two sizes of
copper tubing (one inside the other), a tee, and some
reducers. It is easier to draw than to explain, so
I've put a gif on my web site to show you what I mean.
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/aerater.htm.
If the output of the chiller is copper tubing, the
aerator could be constructed right on the chiller
output.

Hope this helps.
Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew 

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:04:06 +0100
From: Petr Otahal <potahal at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Honey Character

I dont have any answers for Spencer, just another observation.

I too get this honey character in my beers occasionally. I thought it was
just a house flavour caused by local wild yeast. I bottle all my beers and
bulk prime with dextrose. But I have noticed that as the beer ages this
flavour dissipates.

Now that I think about it maybe its not an infection because none of my
beers seem to exhibit this character when tasting just before bottling, and
infection flavours usually get stronger with age.

Maybe youre right Spencer.

Cheers
Pete

>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:18:16 -0400
>From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
>Subject: Re: Honey character 
>
>Looks like nobody's answered (yet).
>
>A honey aroma can be produced by 2-3 pentanediol.  This is the "one
>more carbon" relative of diacetyl, and is produced by some yeast.  I'm
>not up on the biochemistry that leads to this product, but it is
>possible that the conditions inside your bottles are conducive to
>producing it.  
>
>Can anyone help with this?
>
>=Spencer




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Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:33:23 -0700
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: DMS musings

After a rather hectic fire season, it appears it is over.  Bummer.  I keep
trying to get a 6 months here -- 6 months in Oz gig  hooked up, but alas...

Anyway, here are a few musings:

A while back, my usually rock solid friend Spencer offers up the suggestion
to use a can of corn to diagnose DMS.  I personally find fault with this
advice, because I have not found DMS (yes -- the actual compound)  when
dosed into neutral beers to to smell much like corn -- whether creamed,
canned, or otherwise.  As an oft user of corn, I do however, often get
comments back from judges indicating DMS in my corny smelling beers.  As
alternative diagnostic tools, I would suggest to smell Rolling Rock, dose
light neutral lagers with kettle lid condensate, or best yet, get your hands
on some food grade DMS.  At low levels I find it adds a nice faintly sweet,
matly-grainy-sulfur "beeriness" to golden lagers.  At moderate levels I
detect a somewhat more firmly sweet, lacquerish character that has some
mustard family vegetal notes (like broccoli or kale).  At high levels, it
gets clearly fishy/oysterlike.  I recognize that those are only the analogs
for me, but please beware, actual corn DOES typically smell corny, likely
with or without any attendant sulfur compounds.

****
Richard Foote writes:
>>Moisture is the worst enemy of grain.
Uhhhh.  Not in my experience, and not even close.  Can you all say
"catpiss"???
****
I for one am chuffed there has been a bowwow over the bleedin' censorship
issue.  Graham, I'm with ya mate, ya cheeky nutter.

Those daft tossers can go whinge in the fen, 'kin hell.
****
And finally, from the Dude Guha in Delhi we get:
>Many thanks
>Sapsi
And all this time I been wondering where I got my "dark good looks"....

- --dave, sacramento








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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:31:24 -0400
From: "Cass Buckley" <cassnsyd at mediaone.net>
Subject: Freezer and IPA ?  hm..

Hey now folks  - -
I have a two part question.

Question #1 is for the fridge guy or somebody else who has done work on
fridges or freezers.
I have a Westinghouse upright freezer that I got from my neighbor for free.
OK so?  When I got the thing in the basement, I tested it and it would
freeze water at its warmest setting.  I did not like that.  I went to a
scrap yard (humming the mission impossible theme because they were closed)
to get a temp controller from a fridge.  I found one that was ascetically
pleasing so I cut the wires and ran away.  It has a 5" +/- temp probe thing
(I'm talking about the metal thing sticking out of it).  Anyway, I cannot
get the freezer any warmer than 39 F.  this is too cold.  The freezer had
coils under five shelves.  I took out the shelves and bent the coils up to
one side so I could stand two kegs in it.  Can I get a new controller that
will make this run warmer or does it have too many coils to run warm?  I get
frozen condensation on the coils and around them but according to my
thermometer, the air is about 39 F (on top of one of the kegs).   Can this
work or should I get a regular old fridge?  If I do get a fridge (used),
what spec.'s/brand etc. should I look for?

Question #2
I am an extract brewer.  When I go to the beer store I just wing it as I
choose ingredients.  I go in with an idea and try it when I get home.  This
is the first and only IPA I have done so far.   All other beers have come
out either very good or pretty darn good.  Still better than store beer.
This is the first beer that did not do what I wanted.  I brewed a 5 gallon
batch of beer that was supposed to be an IPA.  I used 1 can amber and 1 can
light extract.  I added (steeped) 1 lb.  crystal 20 and 3/4 lb special
roast.
  Hops:
Full boil  (1 hour)
1oz Chinook  at  12%
1oz Galena  at  11.7%
Half Boil (1/2 hour)
1 oz MT. Hood   at  4.1%
Final 10 minutes (flavor? / aroma?)
2oz SAAZ   at  3.6%
Is this just not enough hops?   this does not taste very bitter to me.
should I add more hops at the end of the boil?
OK... now I have another question.  I thought that the high alpha hops would
give me higher bitterness.  they were in for an hour so I was under the
impression that would give me good utilization of the acid. I also believe
hops added at the end of the boil do not need to be high alpha because most
of the acid is not utilized anyway.  Most of the hops flavor that I like
comes from low alpha hops so I add them at the end.  Should I have more
alpha at the end?  Is this hop schedule way off for an IPA?  I have been
homebrewing for only 11 month.  I have 17 batches under my belt, all with
good results except this one.  Please, any suggestions.. critique away...
private emails welcome.. I would like to do a good IPA....
 thanks in advance - -

All good in NH but the IPA - - -




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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:57:52 -0500
From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com>
Subject: Distilled Water Yeast Storage

Some time back, in response to a question from Graham Sanders, I wrote
that I have been storing yeast under distilled water for some time. I
further promised that I would report back when I re-cultured them. Here
goes.

I started my yeast bank in March of 1999, using the techniques spelled
out in an article by Michael Graham in Brewing Techniques, Vol. 5, No. 2
(March/April 1997). Basically, a loop of yeast is harvested from a plate
and stored in vials under a couple CCs of otherwise sterile distilled
water at room temperature. My practice for reanimation is to shake the
vial to suspend the yeast, then transfer a loop of the liquid to a few
CCs of sterile wort.

I initially had great success with this method, but at sometime around
eight months in storage I began to have a few failures to restart (no
apparent activity in the vial of wort in a period of 5-7 days). I put off
reculturing quite a while, but Graham's question gave me the needed push.


I knew that some of my strains were slow/no starters from a single loop
of liquid, so I decided to use the entire contents of the storage vial.
The starters contained approximately  15 CCs of sterile wort. Each strain
which successfully started was plated out and eye balled for
contamination, then sent back to distilled water. The results, with time
in storage and time until activity was noted in the wort starter:

BrewTek CL-120, Brit. ale, stored 18 months, started within 5 days
BrewTek CL-160,	 Brit. ale, 18 months, <5 days
BrewTek CL-300, Belg. ale, 18 months, <5 days
BrewTek CL-380, Saison, 18 months,  20 days and still nothing
BrewTek CL-660, Lager, 18 months, <5 days
BrewTek CL-690, Lager, 18 months, 13 days
BrewTek CL-920, Ger. Wheat, 17 months, <5 days
Wyeast 2124, Lager, 18 months, <5 days
Wyeast 2272, Lager, 18 months, <5 days

A few comments:
All of the successful starters plated out cleanly to the unaided eye. 
I've successfully brewed with several of these yeasts in the past year.
The BT article recommends starting from vials by streaking on a plate,
rather than directly inoculating a few CCs of wort as I have been doing.

Jim Layton
Howe, TX


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