---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Low Gravity Brewing-Matt in VT (Chris Swersey)
  Suitable Plastic ???  (Again, in case you missed it the first time) (Smith Asylum)
  Packaged water salts (Christopher Farley)
  So Many Beers, So Little Time ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Pumps and connecting hoses ("Mike Pensinger")
  RE: Pseudo-lager ("Mike Pensinger")
  Pitching on Yeast Cake (Bob Hall)
  Mad sparrow disease, brewitup, efficiency (craftbrewer)
  zinc  Clap-trap (craftbrewer)
  ServoMyces (Nathan Kanous)
  wacko chest freezer (fridgeguy)
  Yeast behavior observation (Chris Cooper)
  Re: janitors in trouble ("Lutzen, Karl F.")
  yeast cakes ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: low gravity beers (Jeff Renner)
  Chiller testing (Danny Breidenbach)
  Fridge in the garage or basement? (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
  Conspiracy, Permits & Big Ferment ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  soapy taste ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Stupid Brewer/Hydrometer Tricks (Richard Foote)
  Homebrew Eqpt  at  eBay (aschober)
  Sparge Arm Design (Mike.Szwaya)
  Xfering commercial beer to corny's (John Martin - Product Business Analyst)
  Extract FWH ("Scholz, Richard")
  Re: wind screen (Spencer W Thomas)
  Here's a Cat. 5 for ya. ("Leland Heaton")
  monitoring temps with a PC (Doniese)
  Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition ("Brent Stafford")
  aussie translation (Frank Tutzauer)


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Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:51:36 -0700
From: Chris Swersey <cswersey at salmoninternet.com>
Subject: Low Gravity Brewing-Matt in VT

After years as a commercial and homebrewer, I am not keen to admit
particular knowledge in this area. Having said that, I can offer Matt
some advice.

Matt, you never really say that you have experienced an astringent
oversparged beer in this circumstance, you are however correct in
anticipating that you could get that result. In the end, it really
depends on taste. If your beer tastes good, do not worry about what may
be happening in your process. If not, worry about it and change the
problem.

In my experience, there are two situations where you want to cease wort
collection. 1) the gravity of the runoff falls below 1 deg. Plato, or 2)
the pH of the runoff rises above around 6.0. These are both arbitrary,
but rules of thumb nevertheless that serve me well at home and work. I
would check these to see where you are on a routine basis until you are
comfortble that you stay in the range you want. In the latter case, you
can keep the pH below 6 by making sure your sparge water is
appropriately treated like your mash water.

Matt lists a number of ways to accomplish 5 gal of low grav. beer given
his system constraints:

"SO - it seems that there are several choices for making a 1.040 or less

OG beer:
        1) Make a smaller batch (3-4 gal) using a smaller grain bill;
        2) Use a 'normal' grain bill and dilute before boil;
        3) Use a 'normal' grain bill and dilute after the boil;
        4) Make a 'normal' batch and dilute after fermentation;
        5) something else?"

For sanitation and aeration reasons, I would not recommend 4) above,
unless you have access to a diluent system, ie. a way of making low
dissolved O2 water.

For reasons of hop utilization and consistency, I would not recommend 3)
above.

My advice would be to use a smaller grain bill, cease wort collection
when either the extract level becomes to low or pH too high as discussed
above, and then add liquor to the kettle to make up the difference to
6.5 gallon level normally used as the starting volume. (Sort of a
combination of 1) and 2) above, if I read Matt's words correctly.) This
will do two things for you. 1) It will keep your hopping regimen the
same as usual, given that the volume is what you normally do, and 2) It
will allow you to boil the entire wort charge, sanitizing it.

Best of Luck Matt!

Chris Swersey
Brewlab N. America
JCS Consulting







Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:20:14 -0700
From: Smith Asylum <smithly at neta.com>
Subject: Suitable Plastic ???  (Again, in case you missed it the first time)

Question for the gurus of brew:  What plastic compound is suitable for diverter
valves and fittings when transferring hot wort?

PVC ?
CPVC ?
ABS ?

Other suggestions and/or sources for in-line valves?

I'm concerned with some of the reviews I've read concerning the outgassing of
plastic fittings and the subsequent off-flavors that it gives the beer when
transferring hot wort.

Thanks,
Lee Smith
Chandler, AZ



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:24:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Packaged water salts

In Homebrew Digest #3470 (November 4, 2000), Jeff Renner
<nerenner at umich.edu> wrote

==>> Anti-regulatory anecdotes snipped <<==

> Oops, i guess I got myself started, didn't I?  But really, I think 
> any wholesaler would be able to do it, even if not a local shop.  Of 
> course, there may not be much of a market for it.
> 
> Maybe Chris Farley of Northern Brewer or Lynne O'Connor of St. Pat's 
> is already set up and would have an idea about this.

This sounds like a great idea, not because it's going to generate huge
profits, but because it sounds extremely useful to brewers. If one were a
national wholesale distributor, it could be a reasonably lucrative
convinced to buy the pre-packaged salts. Well, "every homebrew shop in the
country" might be a little bit strong... But wholesale distributors
at one time thought that the market juniper berries, wormwood and Indian
sarsaparilla was great enough to merit hiring graphic designers,
designing display racks, and the launching  "The Brewer's Garden" line
of products. If there's a market for this, then there's got to be a market
for a *truly* useful product line, like the "Municipal Water Replicator
Kits".

Maybe I'm fooling myself.

Nevertheless, I'm putting it on my "to do list". As a reminder, the
forward-thinking people at Paddock Wood in Canada sell these salts now.

Excelsior!

- ----
Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer / 1150 Grand Avenue / St. Paul, MN 55105
www.northernbrewer.com



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:56:42 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: So Many Beers, So Little Time

Just lately, I have found myself struggling to keep pace reading the HBD and
keep on top of all that is expected of me. No doubt this happens to all
brewers at times.

Having achieved what I wanted with rice lagers, my current exploration has
been with wheat beers. I have to admit, I love wheat beers.

My latest creation is a peach wheat, the original recipe being from Chad
Bohl.
This is the one which literally left the girls peachless (sorry, I mean
speechless) and lying enticingly dormant about the billiard room.
In my younger years I would have been thinking :
"So many women, so little time!"
(And I have to be honest, the thought has not at all left my mind)

But being as we are in a more politically correct environment, I keep my
mind on the beer.

Next on my list is a strawberry blonde.
Does anyone have a suggestion?
For the beer I mean - for the beer!

Phil





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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 07:48:10 -0500
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at verizon.net>
Subject: Pumps and connecting hoses

Greetings all,

I recently stumbled on a couple of magnetic pumps at the local junk/surplus
store (Fill a box for $20!< I got two)  My question is for those who are
using pumps, what kind of hose/piping are you using?  I would like to make
the system easily disassembled so flexible hose would be preffered?  Thanks
in advance>

Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:12:49 -0500
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Pseudo-lager

I have had good luck using ice rings to maintain my temps.  Here is the
basic process.  Get yourself a bunt pan or jello ring mold and freeze water
in it.

Place your carboy in a bucket to container and drape a couple t-shirts over
it.  Place the ice ring around the neck or the carboy and pull one of the
t-shirts up to cover it.

The ice melts and the cold water runs down the sides of the carboy and will
maintain around 50-55 degrees.  I made a Mai Bock this way and won first
place in our local club competition.

Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net



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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:20:29 +0000
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
Subject: Pitching on Yeast Cake

Cass asked about pitching wort directly onto a yeastcake ....

I've also experienced the same quick fermentation rate when pitching on
the yeast cake. I guess it's just like using a mega-starter, and things
take off like crazy. Actually, I consider it the ideal process if you
can brew batches
quickly enough.

I've never noticed flavor shifts from one style to another, and if
you're going lighter to darker (eg. amber to porter), the more robust
flavors would mask any slight carry-over. I'd guess that you might get
more flavor from the residual hops that anything else.

I think the key is getting the wort on the yeast quickly, a rapid
primary fermentation, then on to the secondary where the batch can stew
in its own juices. And actually, by using a good yeast cake I think
you're lowing your chance of potential infection that might result from
an extended lag period when all yeasts and nasties have a fighting
chance of taking over.

Good luck,

Bob



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:13:05 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Mad sparrow disease, brewitup, efficiency

G'day all

 poor poor David    

>>>>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 10:45:57 +1100
From: David Fisher <david at colossus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Malt Additives - unanticipated

I have just bought a 25 kg sack of Maris Otter - my first ever 
purchase of malt in this quantity.

Upon transferring it into a double-bagged snap-lid bin for 
storage you can imagine my surprise to discover that the bag 
contained aside from the malt, a very dead and very dessicated 
sparrow (at least it appeared to be an English sparrow)!<<<<<<

Now David, I grew up on a grain farm and I can tell you that the 
odd expunged sparrow was the least of our worries.  Some of the 
things we found in the grain would put you off bread, and beer 
for life. Even had a dead pig once. (we still sold the grain mind you).

But you ask, is it ruined? Well without the sparrow actually in h
and to have a look at it, lets try and guess the likely intrusion. Its 
unlikely the sparrow got in before the malting and drying (unless 
you have a beautiful plucked, cooked and dried sparrow jerky. 
The process would have worked that bady nicely. No, more than 
likely the blighter either got in in the malt storage silo, probably
having a feed on an unstable slope and got covered in a slide, 
or got stuck in the storage bin and died of dehydration, or the 
greedy sod tried to get a quick 

feed at the bagging shoot, and basically got sucked in.

Now I dont know if you have seen an animal decomposes in a silo. 
True they go thru the normal process, Bloat, tissues break down, 
excess moisture leaches out, but as this happens, the grain 
absorbs the excess liquids, so the carcass just dries out. this is 
especially so if there is some weight of grain on the body 
(sparrow of pig). Sort of acts like a press, squeezing it dry.

To me I would still use your grain (Risk of Mad Sparrow Disease 
not included). there aint a lot of moisture in one of these scrawney 
buggers so it would only contaminate the malt a couple of grains 
thick arround it. If it was in the silo, (which is by the way I would 
guess where he met his/her maker) the grains been diluted well 
and truely thru packaging and more than likely another 
reader of the HBD actually has that grain (watch now everyone 
throw out there bag of grain). If in the unlikely event he fell into 
the bag and dried out, well the dilution factor is still there, and I 
am willing to bet you wont taste him.

If in doubt buy another bag and mix the two together to ensure 
the grains are diluted below your taste thershold

Matt is obviously a country boy watching Landline

>>>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:32:56 +1100
From: "Matt and/or Hazel Tolley" <tolmh at tpg.com.au>
Subject: Seven minute head (there go the mail filters), beef in 
beer, Brew It Up

By the way - any Aussies catch last week's Landline?  Had a great 
segment about 'Brew It Up' in California.  What a setup!  

Yes watched the article myself. I believe these things would take 
off in Australia (and I have done some research into this). if it wasn't 
for one unfortunate thing. Now if you yanks thing you have some 
funny laws, (whats the one I love - someplace children aren't 
allowed in a bar and drink unless they are married) the mega 
breweries here make it damn difficult to go into competition with 
them. So it is with these Brew it Up Places.

The law is you can make the wort on premises , but you can't 
supply the active yeast or temperature control fermentation and 
lager rooms, and bottling facilities for the customers. You officially 
become a brewery if you do that and the red tap is HUGH and not 
viaiable.  For examples, breweries must be secure places 
(members of the public can't get in) bit difficult when a guy wants 
to check on his brew. Plus the govt wants excise paid on all 
this beer on premise. Never mind its not your beer, all you are doing
 is supplying a cool room. go figure.

and Petr

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:33:29 +1100
From: Petr Otahal <potahal at utas.edu.au>
Subject: First Mash

 We managed to con everyone into having a go at
the grinding cause it was a bit of pain (10kg (~22lbs) of malted 
grain in total), and the general consensus was that I had to 
motorise my mill (which is a home made roller mill with rollers that 
are 3 inches in diameter and about 6 inches in length, both rollers 
powered). In all it took us about 30 - 40 minutes of grinding to 
crush all the malt.

I tried doing some calculations and got a figure of around 90% 
effeciency. Is this right???  It seems a bit high for
a first all grain batch???<<<<

I don't know whats wrong with your mill, but my mill is of similar 
size and i do about a kilo a miniute, so for your batch of grain 
10 to 15 minutes.  Or Is it you southerners have no muscles.

And as for 90% efficiency. Hey dont sweat it. That would be 
90% brewhouse efficicency and thats good. hey my system 
gets very high 90's Brewhouse efficiency all too consistantly.  
One time i did get 102%, but then again I do  by volume and not 
wieght. Just can't see the point weighing out 8 kilos of grain 
when there are so many other varables and its soo easy just 
to measure by a line on the bucket.

Shout

Graham Sanders

oh

The Mouth from the South is back with this gem

Graham Sanders will not be pleased to know
that twice in the last week I have flown right over his 
home heading north to the town of Cairns. 

damn right I'm not pleased. Explains why these green 
iceblocks fell out of the sky.  Well I have to inform you 
mate - you missed. Now i work out you owe me 3 cartons 
of grog mate (import duty).

Now Phil, I expect delivery by the weekend, after all my 
friend "I know a secret" - just make sure its your best brew, 
none of that rice lager rubbish.






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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:13:06 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: zinc  Clap-trap


G'day All

Well my brewing world has come crashing down arround me. 
Bugger-me, I'll chuck the whole thing in and buy XXXX, or even 
Fosters. Thought I had it all covered, Best HERMS system in OZ, 
salts, ph meters, Totally stainless steel system, more fridges than 
a shopping centre, biggest yeast station in the Southern 
Hemisphere, even can roast my own grains. So with confidence 
ablazing I check my water analysis, thinking "this zinc thing a lot 
of hot air'' Well drop me quicker than a newly-weds pants, my 
zinc level is only 0.02 mg/L.

So what you say. Well the knowledgables tell us that 0.2 mg/L 
is the bearest minimum, otherwise I'm suffering zinc deficiency. 
Oh the shame, THE SHAME - my beers ruined. What is a 
ex-brewer to do, hand in my title as craftbrewer. NO I'll get it up 
instead. (Down SWMBO, thats my zinc level).  So I ask as a 
humble NTH QLDer, whats the easiest source of zinc. (lets 
assume I can't go to the local lab) Do I grab a zinc screw and 
throw it in the boil, that should get it up to 0.2mg/L. (No I dont
as many zinc coated screws also have cadmium)

But i think we need to take this out of the lab and put it in terms 
for everyone else. Now lets see if my nut has got it right. You 
need about 0.2 to 0.5 mg/L of zinc in your fermenting wort for 
excellent yeast performance. This seems to be the agreed target, 
so lets say 0.4 mg/L. But my water has only 0.02 mg/L. Theory 
says there is plenty of zinc in my malt I use, in fact in theory there 
is more than enough to raise my wort to at least 0.4 mg/L.

So I mash and sparge an average all-grainer. The initially zinc 
levels will actually be easily at or above the the 0.4mg/L. So onto 
the boil. Now it doesn't matter who you believe, what is clear that 
a lot of zinc will go out of solution and become part of the break 
material. While people can argue about how much, it is clear
that by the time the boil finishes, my wort is now well well below 
0.4mg/L of zinc. There is still zinc in solution, but its below 
arround 1mg/L at least. 

So this answers one question, why is yeast still working. Well its 
just like o2, there is enough there to do the job, but you can make 
it work better if you add more. So then who needs to worry. 
Obviously people who have low zinc initially in their water. Now 
again its seems that if your water is over 4mg/L there seems plenty 
of excess zinc in the water to counter the loss in the boil. below 
that extra zinc wont hurt. 

Now my water definitely needs it. I will get at least healthy yeasts t
hat will ferment better and finish off the beer cleaner (its another 
1% improvement). But when to add it and in what form. To me 
the form is immaterial, be it a salt, vitamin tablet, yeast nutrient, or 
dead yeast with high levels of zinc in it. heck I'm toying with the 
idea of a lump of zinc I just throw in the boil) Bottom line is you 
want the cooled wort to be closer to 0.4mg/L. 

When to add it is fairly immaterial, as long as the final cooled 
 comes in 0.4mg/L So tell me if the is the guts of the issue, and 
have I got it right.

If so i have some questions.
1. If you add salts should you add it after the boil, so to minimise 
precipitation with break material, or do you add more during the 
boil to compensate the loss. Assuming my zinc levels how much 
say ZnCl2 would you add and when,

2. As I said I am toying with a small lump of zinc in the boil, say 
the size of a dice. Does anyone have any idea when i add it to 
the boil.

To me lets get out of the lab and into the field.

Shout

Graham Sanders

oh

I tell you i'm glad your election (or is that circus) is over. 
Some of the clap trap over this digest was almost 
unbelievable. I reckon you lot deserve who you elect. For 
a country that spouts Liberty, freedom, and the right to 
blow your neighbour away, there seems little choice in 
your democracy. No wonder your paranoic about drinking 
laws, guns, drink driving and some of the weirdest laws in 
the world. least you got one thing right - you only do it 
every 4 years.



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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:44:42 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: ServoMyces

Hey Jethro and Mr. White,
When's this stuff going to be available?
nathan in madison, wi


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:07:34 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: wacko chest freezer

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #3474, "bear" asked for help with his chest freezer that has
gone wacko for the past month or so. He mentioned seeing a patch of
frost on the upper rear wall of the freezer interior but the freezer
temperature wouldn't drop below 61 degF, even though he'd adjusted his
controller to a lower setpoint.

 A friend of mine recently found himself in a similar situation and we
determined the cause to be the temperature controller's sensor bulb
resting too near or against the inside of the freezer cabinet, which
gets very much colder than the air inside the freezer. Moving the
sensor further away from the wall solved the problem. Bear mentioned
putting the controller sensor in a bottle of water with no
improvevment, so I don't believe sensor location is the cause of his
freezer's cooling problem.

 Bear also mentioned that he put 6 kegs in the freezer, which is more
than he has had in the freezer in the past. While a larger load would
lead to a longer pull-down time before reaching setpoint, the freezer
should cool the air surrounding the kegs to setpoint and shut off well
before the keg contents are fully chilled. The freezer should cycle on
and off with a shorter than normal off time until the kegs reach
setpoint.

 To rule out any controller problems, plug the freezer in without the
controller to see if the freezer pulls down. Remove anything that
shouldn't freeze before doing this. If the freezer still won't pull
down, the controller is probably ok. 

 The patch of frost he describes is what concerns me. The evaporator
coil surrounds the upper walls of the freezer interior. The coil is
fed from the top rear and spirals around the cabinet before returning
to the compressor.

 The coil will be coldest where the refrigerant enters. A frost trail
will be visible along the coil path wherever the refrigerant liquid is
flashing into vapor. The frost trail stops where all of the liquid
refrigerant has changed state.

 Since the coil spirals around the cabinet, a band of frost encircling
the upper cabinet interior would be seen under normal circumstances
(assuming the air isn't too dry). The small patch of frost in this
case likely indicates a loss of refrigerant.

 If lucky, a leak might be found outside the freezer cabinet. Oil will
leak out along with refrigerant wherever ther is a leak so look for
signs of oil along the refrigerant lines and around the compressor. An
external leak may be repairable by a sevice tech.

 Be aware that a very common failure mode for chest freezers is
corrosion of the evaporator tubing inside the cabinet walls due to
moisture permeating the insulation. If/when this has happened, there
is no way to repair the freezer.

 All chest freezer users should carefully caulk all interior cabinet
seams with a mildew-resistant silicone caulk to help prevent this from
happening.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


- --
Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com
(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:30:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast behavior observation

Greetings all!  I recently started two batches of cyser (as mentioned in
an earlier post) and used the new Wyeast pitchable tubes of their 
London Ale variety, I noticed yesterday that the twin batches had fermented
to different degrees in the same amount of time.  One batch is at 1.006 and
the other is at 1.012 (both are still working slowly but steady). 
I am just curious and need to ask WHY?   

Here are the facts in common :
Both batches were prepared at the same time (a single 11 gal. in the kettle)
Each carboy was filled by alternating the flow from the kettle between
   them (fill approximately 1-gal in first carboy then fill approximately
   1-gal in second carboy, repeat until both are full)
Cyser (wort?) was allowed to splash into carboy using a "wine makers funnel"
   with an integrated micro-screen (plenty of O2)
Carboys were placed next to each other for entire fermentation time (in
   a downstairs closet)
Both batches showed same temperature on LCD temperature strips attached to
   each carboy.
Yeast was added by shaking Wyeast pitchable tube and then squirting the 
   slurry into the neck of carboy.
Yeast was purchased and handled in identical manner (same batch date stamps)

Here is the one known difference:
The the carboys are sealed using the orange carboy caps (the ones with two
tubes in the top) and plastic S-type air-locks.  about 10 days into the 
ferment I noticed that the carboy that is now at 1.006 didn't seem to be
bubbling despite a visually active head.  Investigation revealed that 
the orange cap was not making a good seal, i pitched it and put on a 
new one with a proper seal, the air-lock immediately showed activity 
which matched that of the other batch.  

Now an observation, could it be that the lack of back-pressure (due to the 
improper seal) for those first 10 days of fermentation resulted in the batch
achieving a higher attenuation ?  

A side note, the Wyeast pitchable tubes were used without a starter and 
performed well, IMHO.


Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) 
Commerce, Michigan    Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild
(Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian)



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:14:56 -0600 
From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu>
Subject: Re: janitors in trouble

Graham "Cracker" Sanders wrote:

> Well I demand an explaination.  I go off line for only a week or so 
> and everything goes to pot.

> What do I mean.  Well me being a Government worker its hard 
> to fill in my day. So I do plan my day arround the daily receipt of 
> the ol' HBD. For me its perfect, get a cuppa at 2.30pm (local time), 
> sit down, read the good, the bad and the utter cr*p til 3.00pm, 
> then afternoon tea break, think about replying to you lot and 
> home at 4.00pm to my 'puter to let you have an earful.  Now 
> this takes a lot of effort and organisational skills, but I have it 
> to a fine art.

It's called "Time zone change". Our country plays with the time zones
twice a year. That's life. Learn to read at the new time as nothing
can be done until next spring....

=====================================================================
Karl F. Lutzen                   | Computing and Information Services 
Network System Analyst           | University of Missouri - Rolla
E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu              | 104 Computer Science Bldg. 
Fax: (573) 341-4216              | 1870 Miner Circle 
Voice: (573) 341-4841            | Rolla, MO 65409-0360
===================================================================== 


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:23:08 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: yeast cakes

Cass asks,

"Is it normal to have a 72 hour beer when using a yeast cake?"

Yes, it's not uncommon.

"Since I did not wash the yeast or anything, will the yeast impart some
amber
flavors to my porter?"

Doubtful.  The porter is darker.  Not a lot of flavour transfers, esp. if
you use a clean cake from a secondary. All the same, it's not usual practice
to go from a dark beer to a light colored beer.

"How many times should I reuse a cake (I don't think I'll get into culturing
yeast at this point)?"

Once is easy, three is also easy with good sanitation. Six is not uncommon
for brewpubs, but requires excellent sanitation and practice.  You can dump
the clean cake from a secondary into a new heavy duty Ziploc bag and store
it in the fridge for a few days with little damage if you are not prepared
to brew on the day you transfer your beer.

"I always put my beers into a carboy after primary fermentation for a week+.
I do this prior to kegging to drop yeast and clear the beer so I wont get
too much crap in the keg valve.  Can I rack now and drink the beer a few
days sooner?"

Absolutely.

"Are there any real advantages to (other than beating out bacteria) having
such a fast ferment?"

Better attenuation, more complete fermentation, often less diacetyl...  The
cake from 5 gallons is actually the recommended pitching rate, so this is
one way homebrewers can easily achieve commercial pitching levels.

No starters! Although starters are ideal, I really hate making starters. So
I use XL packs for the first batch and reuse yeast cakes when possible.

It's the perfect way to prepare for a big beer.  Brew a bock then a
Dopplebock. First a stout, then Imperial Stout. Pale Ale, then IPA or
Barleywine. etc. Or if you wish to do several batches, a Mild, Bitter, IPA.

There may be some concern over reusing yeast from a very high gravity beer
for another high gravity beer.

cheers,

Stephen
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:20:39 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: low gravity beers

Graham <craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au> wrote

>Ah, Graham, you mistake the reason for tasty session bitters.  It
>isn't less, it's more - you can drink more pints!<<<<
>
>Well mate, if your game to walk into a Nth Qld pub for a session,
>shout the bar and mates less than 3.5% v/v beers, well your braver
>than me. Some things are just not done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that's pretty close to what I'm talking about.  3.5% v/v would 
have a starting gravity of about 1.035.  That's about as low as I 
generally go, but the brew I mentioned was 1.034.  But, as it had 5% 
sugar, which is 100% fermentable, my guess is that it probably 
fermented out to about 3.5%

Considering that a Budweiser is 5.0% v/v, 3.5% is low gravity.

We're not talking about a flavorless Bud Lite, either  These brews have flavor.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:20:58 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: Chiller testing

Brewers:

I'm looking for input on a quick and dirty way to test whether my
chiller is truly well-sanitized.  I'm thinking of something similar to a
wort-stability test ... where I run something through my chiller, then
let it sit for a couple of days to see if anything nasty grows.  I do
NOT want to use a full batch of beer to test is, even though that would
be the gold standard, I guess.

One idea I thought up was: run a couple of gallons of sugar water
through, using my best sanitation practices throughout.  Let the sugar
water sit on a shelf, sealed up tight, for a couple of days, then sniff,
taste, etc. to see if anything nasty happened.

Would such a test tell me anything at all?



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:22:12 -0600 
From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
Subject: Fridge in the garage or basement?

SWMBO, in her boundless generosity, has the idea that we should move 
our current fridge out of the kitchen so I can use it for beer. Of 
course, we'd have to get a new, bigger fridge in the kitchen to 
replace it, but that's purely coincidental. Here's my question: should 
I move the old fridge to our unheated garage (her preference), or the 
basement? If it's in the garage, how would the refrigeration system 
tolerate long periods of below-freezing temps, and will I freeze beer, 
etc. inside?

On a related topic, I've built a Ken Schwartz "Son of Fermentation 
Chiller" that is working fine in my basement. I'd like to use it, or 
something similar, in the garage to take advantage of our natural 
refrigeration season, adding a heat source to control the temp. 
However, I'm not sure about the safety of putting a 120V heating device 
inside that polystyrene box.  I could use a defunct fridge or 
freezer as a free insulated box, then install a heating device 
(heating pad, hair dryer, light bulb, etc.) and thermostat to maintain 
temps during the cooler/colder months. Any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW, thanks go to Ken Schwartz for the chiller design. A simple, 
elegant design that even I could build, and it works great!
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html


Jim Steinbrunner
Midland, Michigan


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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:21:56 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Conspiracy, Permits & Big Ferment

Graham posted:

>Didn't get my digest til 3.50pm 
>today. Couldn't even read it at work. Come on 
>chaps, its not cricket.
>
>So whats the story.  Is this an effort to silence my imput.

I would say so if I didn't read a few smileys into your post.  Ahhh... HBD
withdrawl.  Not reading about beer is almost as bad as not drinking one!

Just to clarify my previous post regarding homebrewing permits in NJ:

It was only a hypothetical situation.  Maybe I should have added that to "
Consider the following scenario".  For some reason my post was cut short and
that might have made it more clear.  Sometimes I do funny things with the
mouse and the backspace key, cut & paste...  The rest of the narrative being
that after everything is cleared up and it's established that you're not
moonshining , you get a fine from the state for not having your permit.  

This was a big "what if" based upon a true episode from COPS where some guy
who was homebrewing got busted for distilling (due to his immersion chiller
looking like a distillation condenser).  It was only mentioned as an aside
that he was homebrewing and the scenes still aired.  But as for my neighbor,
he really is a prick ;-)

Cass Buckley asks about his Big Ferment:

>Questions -
>Is it normal to have a 72 hour beer when using a yeast cake?

Quite.  I've done this before with 3 successive batches, a bitter, a porter
and an IPA.  I measure my primary fermentation from pitching until the
krausen crashes.  The bitter was from a normal starter and it took 5 or 6
days.  I racked that weekend and dropped the porter on top of the yeast
cake.  It only took 48 hours!  The next day I brewed a batch of IPA, dropped
it on the same cake and it took about 4 days.  Marathon brewing in my
extract days (in plastic too!)

>Since I did not wash the yeast or anything, will the yeast impart some
amber
>flavors to my porter?

I always wash my yeast cake if I reuse it.  The cell count is so so high I'm
willing to risk the exposure.  Simple washing with boiled water will remove
a good amount of dead yeast cells, dusty yeast and trub.  I'll bet that any
amber flavors that were imparted will be greatly dominated by the porter's.

>How many times should I reuse a cake (I don't think I'll get into culturing
>yeast at this point)?

That question is wide open!  Reusing yeast is dependent upon a number of
factors, but mostly has to do with how well have they been fed with your
wort and how clean you've kept them.  I personally limit myself to 3 uses as
a precaution.  Yeast are cheap.

>I always put my beers into a carboy after primary fermentation for a week+.
>I do this prior to kegging to drop yeast and clear the beer so I wont get
>too much crap in the keg valve.  Can I rack now and drink the beer a few
>days sooner?

I'd let my hydrometer decide.  If you've hit terminal gravity (or damn
close) you should be good to go.




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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:09:03 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: soapy taste

A post of soap and bottles appeared Tuesday from:

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:41:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Oh so sad
 .....................

here is my take on the subject.  Don't use soap.  its a huge pain to rinse
out.  if you do use it, rinses require multiple hot water rinses to remove
the residue suffucuent.  I only use soap to clean my brew pot.

bottles and everything else get the iodophor, bleach, sanitizer.....
anything but soap.

also, some people have mentioned Saaz hops yield a soapy type taste.  I
don't use saaz much but have never encountered this. did you by any chance
use saaz in your brew.

If my bottles have good crude in them, I either soak with not very dilute
bleach solution or pitch them out.  very hot tap water will often loosen up
the crude due to thermal expansion etc.  

rinse your bottles after drinking from them and you'll never have a problem
with just a sanitizer soak afterwards.

Good luck.  Hope you find some bottles that aren't too soapy out of the
batch.

pete czerpak
albany, NY



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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:13:40 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Stupid Brewer/Hydrometer Tricks

Hi Brewers,

Recently, I was minding my own business brewing a 12 gal. batch of pale
ale.  The O.G. was 1.044.  I had targeted 1.050.   

I repitched YCKC A15 Ale yeast from a previous batch.  It was a real
go-getter because in eight days from brewing, I got beer!  I was rather
alarmed by my FG reading of 1.005 though.  Never had one that low.  Upon
reasoning, I chalked it up to no mashout.  I mashed for my normal 90 min.
and then went straight to lauter/sparge for an hour plus.  I reasoned since
the enzymes had not been denatured, they continued to convert over that
extended period.  I kicked myself for not going with a shortened mash time
and allowing for some continued conversion during the sparge.  Even though
it finished at 1.005, it didn't seem all that dry.  Oh well, on to the next
batch.  

A week later, I'm brewing a Christmas ale.  Since my last batch was under
my target gravity, I decided to pull a pre-boil sample and cool to 60
degrees to check the gravity.  It was in the 20's.  There is no way I'm
going to get this into the 50's with a 90 minute boil!  I yell to my
brewing buddy,  "Hey, how much DME you got?  We need some stat!"  In a
panic, I plugged the numbers into my brewing software.  The efficiency was
in the 30's-- no f**kin' way!  I'm usually in the high 70's to low 80's.
Something major is amiss here.  

I started to play with my hydrometer (minds out of the gutter please).  Try
as I might, I can't get the G.D. thing to float any higher.  I wonder if
perhaps the paper roll with the graduations had slipped inside.  Did't seem
loose.  By chance, I happened to invert it.  Viola!  Fiddlesticks!  I got
wort inside!  On closer inspection, I could see a chip that had been taken
out of the weighted bottom of the hydrometer.

The first hyrometer I got when I first started brewing served me well for
over ten years.  Now inside of two years, I've gone through two of them.
What's up with this?  Can anyone recommend a good quality hydrometer?   


Hope this helps [me].


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewery and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA






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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:23:39 -0500
From: aschober at ebmail.gdeb.com
Subject: Homebrew Eqpt  at  eBay

Thought the folks on the digest might be interested in a load of brewing
equipment being offered on eBay.
  http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=493457284

Thanks
Al Schober




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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:52:06 -0800 
From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us
Subject: Sparge Arm Design


Hi all-

Does anyone have any design ideas a rotating sparge arm?  More specifically,
how do I attach the horizontal rotating arm to the vertical stationary arm?

Thanks.

 -Mike Szwaya


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:51:44 -0600 (CST)
From: John Martin - Product Business Analyst <John.A.Martin at central.sun.com>
Subject: Xfering commercial beer to corny's

At the risk of being flamed...

I brew enough to always have a 5 gallon corny full of great homebrew.
However, I do not brew enough to have more than that or a variety.
In order to get more beer out of my garage fridge, I have room for
more corny kegs but not a commercial keg (pony or otherwise).  Has
anyone ever tried to move beer from a commercial keg to 2 corny
kegs on order to maximize for the room.  I figure I can keep 2 hb
and 2 commecial (fat tire, german lager, etc) in my fridge that way.
Thoughts?

John



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:07:35 -0500 
From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com>
Subject: Extract FWH


On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:18:20 -0500, Richard B. Dulany Jr. wrote: 
>Having read the posts about mash hopping, I'm curious if us extract brewers
>could perform something similar. I often steep crystal malt (or some other 
>specialty grain) at 155 F before the boil. What would happen, if anything, 
>if I added hop pellets to the steeping bag? Has anyone tried this? 

Bill Riel reply's:
>Never tried it, but go for it man! 
And goes on to report his experiences

I continue:

I recently got (won in our club raffle) two 3lbs. Bags of Breiss Wheat
extract.
I made two 2.5 gal batches with 0.5 oz Spalt pellets each. Don't usually use
extract but it was there.
The first batch, I put the 0.5 oz hops in the warm water as I dissolved the
extract.
In the second, I added the 0.5oz at about 45min to go in the boil.
The first was fermented with Hoegarden yeast and the other with
Wiehenstephen yeast.
Both are "Dunkels". Breiss wheat extract is pretty dark, but the "FWH" in
the preboil of the extract
really added a hop flavor/aroma to the "Wit", while the "Bavarian Weiss" had
a much less distinct 
hops presence.  Just adding to the data points. I like the result of early
hop additions in both
all-grain and extract recipes. This started off as a different yeast
"experiment" but the change in
hop timing really was noticeable. Not that the difference from Hoegarden's
spiciness to 
Wiehenstephen's banana/cloves didn't change the whole character of the
beers.

Both recipes:
3lbs Breiss wheat extract
0.5 oz Spalt pellets
3 US gallons water
Yeast starter from slant
- -----------------------------------
Richard L Scholz
(201) 876-5973




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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:23:33 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: wind screen


    PVanslyke> Dan I too have a problem with wind when I brew in the
    PVanslyke> great outdoors. 

If you're going to have a wind problem, the great outdoors is the best
place to have it!  I fixed my problem with wind by eating fewer beans. 

Yeast sediment still seems to cause me problems.  Maybe I should
bottle with some Beano(R)?

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

Oh.... not that kind of wind? ... 

NEVERMIIIIIND (with apologies to Gilda Radner)



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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:28:47 PST
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: Here's a Cat. 5 for ya.

I don't know if this on is out there yet (or who made it up), but a girl at 
my work dropped this to me.  PS.  Correct me if I am wrong on my category :)

 -Leland

"The Beer Song"

(Do)  Dough, the stuff that buys me beer.
(Re)  Ray, the guy that sell me beer.
(Mi)  Me, the one that drinks the beer.
(Fa)  Far, a long long way to my beer.
(So)  So, I think I'll have a beer.
(La)  La, la, la, la, la, la, beer!
(Ti)  Tea, not thanks, I'll have a beer.

Now that brings us back to Do!

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.



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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:47:35 EST
From: Doniese at aol.com
Subject: monitoring temps with a PC

I have an old 486 sitting around not doing much, and I was wondering about 
using this to monitor temperatures in my brewing.  I'm certainly no computer 
wizard, but I believe this is not only possible, but also maybe not that 
difficult to arrange.  Can somebody point me in the right direction as far as 
what hardware and/or software would be involved?  Maybe some book to 
reference or buy that could get me on my way?  Any help is greatly 
appreciated.

Craig Jensen
Wa. state
(Private replies welcome)


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:04:31 -0600
From: "Brent Stafford" <infoman at msn.com>
Subject: Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition

The St. Louis Brews are holding their annual Happy Holidays Homebrew
Competition on December 9, 2000. This is also the last MCAB3 qualifying
event of the year. For more info check our site at www.stlbrews.org




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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:43:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: aussie translation

Ok, you know how our "mate" Graham always ends his posts with "Shout" -- I
always figured that was just like signing off with "See ya,"
"S'long," or even "Cheers!"  But then our "mate" says something like:

>Well mate, if your game to walk into a Nth Qld pub for a session,
>shout the bar and mates less than 3.5% v/v beers, well your braver
>than me.

What the hell does that mean, "shout the bar and mates"????  So now I'm
figuring it Oz-speak for "buy beers for" or some damn thing.  

Translations, please?

Shout

 --frank



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---