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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Soapy Batch (Beaverplt)
  Low Alcohol Brewing (Matthew Marino)
  Zn question (Petr Otahal)
  Mold? (Christopher Sprague)
  Incoherent ramblings (Christopher Farley)
  packaged water salts ("Terry White")
  Fridge Guy, Mouth from the South, Moral American (craftbrewer)
  zinc correction (craftbrewer)
  Insulation thanks & by jingo, lingo ("Warren White")
  R/O Water (Charles Preston)
  transferring beer to cornies/hydrometer woes ("Timmons, Frank")
  Fridge in unheated garage (fridgeguy)
  Yeast behavior observation ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Chiller testing ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Graham's Zn woes ("Alan Meeker")
  Low gravity brewing (Danny Breidenbach)
  Garage Frig Too Cold in Winter? ("Kevin Jones")
  Subject: Packaged water salts ("Kevin Jones")
  Conversion factors degrees Baume to specific gravity (Fred Eckhardt)
  Re: Chiller testing ("Martin Brungard")
  yeast starter questions ("chuck duffney")
  Suitable Plastic / PrePackaged Salts / SG and %Alcohol / Heating a (Ken Schwartz)


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:51:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Soapy Batch

Thanks to all those who offered advice on my soapy
tasting brew. The general consenus is that it might
not be soap and I should age the brew a little longer.
I'll see what happens. While I'm waiting I'll start
another batch. 

Graham, Maybe it isn't living in a tree house in
Queensland that makes you so goofy. It's being a
government worker (isn't that an oxymoron?) I have two
friends high up in two of our money wasting, I mean
social program agencies. If as a govment employee you
have to put up with the sh*t they do, then you deserve
all of our collective sympathy. 
Our road workers unions are all upset over here. It
seems someone invented a shovel that stands up all by
itself. 

Remember, Dam is not a 4 letter word to a beaver.

The Brewing Beaver
 

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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:22:17 GMT
From: Matthew Marino <mattncherie at freeport.com>
Subject: Low Alcohol Brewing

I work at Uinta Brewing Co. in Salt Lake city where most 
all our beer is 3.2% by weight 4% by volume with the 
exception of our liquor store beers, barley wine at 9-10% 
by volume and our Anglers Ale at 6% by volume.  Out here in 
the city of salt we're experts at low alcohol brews, our 
Cutthroat Ale won a gold at this years GABF in the bitter 
category along with our Kings Peak gold in the shwarzbier 
category. Our o.g.'s are any where from 9.8 - 10.8 plato 
and we never dilute wort as a rule unless we're hopelessly 
over on gravity (our alcohol board randomly checks and will 
fine you for going over 3.2%). We normally get 19 P for 
first runnings and stop at about 2 P.  We dont have 
problems with astringency.  So dont dilute just measure 
your run off and stop when appropriate. If your water is 
low in calcium maybe add a bit of gypsum to your sparge 
water. Low alcohol beers have every bit as much flavor as a 
full strength brew you just need to stick with styles 
suited to it. And yes theoreticaly I can have a few beers 
while working and maintain focus, unless of course there's 
barley wine in the bright tank........
Madman



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:27:50 +1100
From: Petr Otahal <potahal at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Zn question

All this talk of servomyces has me thinking.
If this servomyces thing gets underway, (and I know it will take another
few years to reach down under) will we be able to grow this yeast for our
own purposes in some kind of Zn rich wort?? Or will we always be forced to
buy it for additions to the boil?

Cheers
Pete


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:32:13 -0500
From: Chris at umit.maine.edu (Christopher Sprague)
Subject: Mold?

Some of you may remeber I post I made about making mead a couple months
ago.  Well, since then it has long since stopped bubbling, and has been
racked once to secondary.  It has been about 2 and a half months since
I started it, and I'm about ready to rack it again, and bottle around
the first of December.

However, as I was looking at it tonight, I noticed a thin white film on
top, with a few small white "clumps" in the mix.  Is this mold?  If so,
what do I do about it?  My instinct is to rack it asap leaving the
white film behind, but I'm not so sure it won't reappear.  Has anyone
else seen this, who can offer clues about what it is?

Thanks.
 -Chris


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:18:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Incoherent ramblings


Oh boy. My last HBD post was absolutely incomprehensible. I think I 
refreshed the Florida election results page a few too many times
in the midst of editing my comments. Um, here's what I *meant* to say:

> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:24:46 -0600 (CST)
> From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
> Subject: Packaged water salts
> 
> In Homebrew Digest #3470 (November 4, 2000), Jeff Renner
> <nerenner at umich.edu> wrote
> 
> ==>> Anti-regulatory anecdotes snipped <<==
> 
> > Oops, i guess I got myself started, didn't I?  But really, I think 
> > any wholesaler would be able to do it, even if not a local shop.  Of 
> > course, there may not be much of a market for it.
> > 
> > Maybe Chris Farley of Northern Brewer or Lynne O'Connor of St. Pat's 
> > is already set up and would have an idea about this.
> 
> This sounds like a great idea, not because it's going to generate huge
> profits, but because it sounds extremely useful to brewers. If one were a
> national wholesale distributor, it could be a reasonably lucrative
> endeavor. Every homebrew shop in the country could be 
> convinced to buy the pre-packaged salts. Well, "every homebrew shop in the
> country" might be a little bit strong... But wholesale distributors
> at one time thought that the market for juniper berries, wormwood and
> Indian sarsaparilla was great enough to merit hiring graphic designers,
> designing display racks, and the launching  "The Brewer's Garden" line
> of products. If there's a market for this, then there's got to be a market
> for a *truly* useful product line, like "Municipal Water Replicator
> Kits".
> 
> Maybe I'm fooling myself.
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm putting it on my "to do list". As a reminder, the
> forward-thinking people at Paddock Wood in Canada sell these salts now.
> 
> Excelsior!

- ----
Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer / 1150 Grand Avenue / St. Paul, MN 55105
www.northernbrewer.com



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:46:45 -0800
From: "Terry White" <terry at brewfellows.com>
Subject: packaged water salts

The problem, as I see it, with having prepacked water salts is that in order
to replicate a water profile you have to know what you are starting with.
Just in the US there are countless municipal water authorities with
countless water profiles.  The minerals  would have to add to my water to
make a pale ale would be much different than what would be needed in Texas,
which would be much different than Oregon.  There are way too many variances
to come up with a one size fits all water salt.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how you could do it.

Terry

Terry White
Brewfellow's Fermentation Services
Buffalo, NY



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:27:19 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Fridge Guy, Mouth from the South, Moral American


G'day All

And a big coo-ee out to Mr Fridge

A mate of mine has asked me to ask you a question. He has 
picked up off the back of a truck a huge chest freezer, about 
400litres. (yep you're going to have to covert this to that funny 
measurement - US imperial).  Anyway it seems the compressor is 
fine but it suffers for terminal leakage thru-out the guts. Now he 
wants to convert it to a fermentation and lager box (no this is not 
an overkill, he is after all just a light drinker). Now he's thinking 
of fixing an old fridge heat exchanger to the outside of the freezer, 
and making a copper evaporator for the inside.

His idea is simple (like me). Run a copper pipe around the top 
rim of the freezer, relying on the principle that cold air falls.  Now 
forgetting all the other pitfalls, such as condensation etc., is this 
practical. Further if its practical, I would guess you would flatten 
the pipe a bit to make it work better. But the real question would 
be, how many circles around the top would be satisfactory, one? 
five ? ten?.  A final one, what size copper pipe would be best.


Now you wonder about poor Mr Yates. The mouth from the 
south seems to come and go like my love life (and just as quick 
too).  Seems he enjoys bagging the deep north, but just can't get 
enough of coming up here to visit, all too bloody regularly for my 
liking. But he wont even enjoy himself. I try to get him to go on 
some of our best tours, like the Lonagans Dive Boat Experience. 
even bought him the best tickets, ones guaranteed for an 
extended say on the Barrier Reef, even throw in 
the experience of feeding the local cod. But no, he would rather 
return to the rust belt of Australia, cold, polluted, full of idiots, and 
home of so called great beers like fosters and rice lagers.

Speaking of beers I'm still waiting and the clock is ticking

Shout

Graham 

oh

This gem saved poor dear Doug from me

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 15:06:12 GMT
From: mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As 
Kap'n Salty)
Subject: re: Beer tubes revisited

Doug Hurst wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mr. Sanders wrote:
[humorous assertion that a beerline is not actually a cylinder
snipped]

Or am I missing something here?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You're missing something, although you HAVE demonstrated 
that your understanding of the principle of conservation of 
matter is flawless. 

Graham was just having a little fun.<<<

Like hell I was.  I quote from 'Moral American for Beginners'
 Chapter one page 16 

quote

"You must treat all things with the utmost seriousness, even if it 
doesn't warrant such action.  Our dominance of the world and 
overall righteousness must be maintained right thru every facet of 
our daily lives, and as such no opportunity must be overlooked in 
establishing our moral righteousness in the world"

I was just trying to live up to the high ideals, but may have 
missed something. I see I haven't read Chapter 16 
"How to Criticise each Other and Not let the World Know."

Wonder should i copy this chapter for the digest?


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:16:16 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: zinc correction

G'day All

I see a anumber of you have spotted my deliberate error

Seems some of you spotted the missing 0.

>>So I mash and sparge an average all-grainer. The initially zinc 
levels will actually be easily at or above the the 0.4mg/L. So onto 
the boil. Now it doesn't matter who you believe, what is clear that 
a lot of zinc will go out of solution and become part of the break 
material. While people can argue about how much, it is clear
that by the time the boil finishes, my wort is now well well below 
0.4mg/L of zinc. There is still zinc in solution, but its below 
arround 1mg/L at least. 

So this answers one question, why is yeast still working. Well its 
just like o2, there is enough there to do the job, but you can make 
it work better if you add more. So then who needs to worry. 
Obviously people who have low zinc initially in their water. Now 
again its seems that if your water is over 4mg/L there seems plenty 
of excess zinc in the water to counter the loss in the boil. below 
that extra zinc wont hurt.<<<

Yes thats 0.1mg/L and 0.4mg/L

Shout

Graham Sanders

oh

I dont make mistakes "Moral American for Beginners"
Chapter Two


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:55:17 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Insulation thanks & by jingo, lingo

Greetings folks;

Mucho thanks to all the fine people who helped me out on my mash/lauter tun 
insulation quandry...

But alas folks it was all in vain, I ultimately took the easy way out and 
acquired myself a nice shiny, new, bright orange 10 gallon Igloo $133 
Australian at "Barbecues Galore"... By current estimations that's about $70 
U.S. and most probably rising as I speak.

I can now hit the thread search key and peruse all those lovely pearls of 
wisdom you people have contributed on bulkhead fittings... Hasn't my timing 
been most crucial eh?

On a lighthearted note, it's refreshing to see that we're not the only 
country that turns an election into an episode of the "Flatbush Follies", on 
the upside at least you blokes go through it every 4 years, we get the great 
pleasure of living through it every 3 or less. You also get to see the back 
of them after 8 years, ours through some misfortune that is no fault of our 
own can govern indefinitely, rest assured... familiarity breeds contempt.

Just as surely as people in Florida can't count, someone over your neck of 
the woods gets a little, how should we say... "miffed" if you will on our 
most eloquant of patois. Read on!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:43:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: aussie translation

Ok, you know how our "mate" Graham always ends his posts with "Shout" -- I
always figured that was just like signing off with "See ya,"
"S'long," or even "Cheers!"  But then our "mate" says something like:

>Well mate, if your game to walk into a Nth Qld pub for a session,
>shout the bar and mates less than 3.5% v/v beers, well your braver
>than me.

What the hell does that mean, "shout the bar and mates"????  So now I'm
figuring it Oz-speak for "buy beers for" or some damn thing.

Translations, please?

Shout

- --frank


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Well frank my "Old Currant Bun" I shall endeavour to explain how we frugal 
Australians go about our everyday buying of Alcoholic Beverages be they 3.5% 
v/v or 5% v/v. It don't matter Digs they all be beers.

1. Shout;

Basically means... Who's shout is it? Or in layman's terms, who's going up 
to the bar and getting the drinks? i.e. Buyer of drinks is basically unknown 
due to the fact that too much alcohol has been consumed and you guessed it, 
everybody has forgotten, most likely because they've been eying the norgs on 
the barmaid.
Or alternatively, one of your bretheren knows that it is his shout and is 
hoping that everybody else has forgotten, very common in Australia and is a 
second cousin of No. 4 (see below).


2. Your Hook;

This is where you can point your finger knowingly at one of your friends and 
say... C'mon slack arse, "It's your Hook" (your turn to buy the drinks).
In reply your your friend will generally retort with... Whada mean s**t for 
brains, I got the last one... good on ya!
Ah yes, a good ploy and it sometimes *even* works... But watch out for this 
cad as he is most likely telling porkies.


3. Who's Up;

Contrary to what Monica said to your "outgoing" President... well let's hope 
that he'll be "outgoing" one day because he's over-achieved in the 
"incoming" stakes, at this rate he's rather likely to run another 4 years 
and hand the mantle over to his "Good Lady Wife" or to use probably what 
would be his term of endearment toward her his "1st SWMBO" or "She Who Wears 
the Clinton Pants".

Back to the story, "Who's Up" is usually muttered by the person who has that 
dreadful habit of finishing his drink well before everybody else has, it's a 
form of pressure if you will, to coerce the next cab off the rank to hurry 
his beer and get another round.
That's of course if he doesn't make himself sick in the process as he 
continually burps his way up to the bar.


4. Wouldn't shout if a shark bit him;

This is a person who should not be included in your "Shout" because he is 
usually the one who tries in vain to "Shout" last or not "Shout" at all, 
uttering the all too often heard sentence;
"It's okay fellahs, I'll get the first one tomorrow", and well we know it 
people... "Tomorrow never comes".
This person is easy to spot in any pub whatsoever, as he's the one always 
complaining about the excise rises on beer during a round, making an open 
declaration on his impoverished state... Basically he's setting you up for 
his little ruse.

Hope this helps Frank, (clear as mud I'll bet)


Warren White, Melbourne Australia

Where we have a "Leader"... you people don't want him do you?
He's about as useful as a vote is to Pat Buchanan

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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 05:14:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Preston <cp1811 at yahoo.com>
Subject: R/O Water

    I can purchase r/o water at the local supermarket
for .39 a gal. but can anyone help me with the amounts
of salts to use for a Pilsner?_________a pale ale?
Charlie in Mansfield, Ohio (No, Graham, I won't move!!)


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:03:19 -0700
From: "Timmons, Frank" <frank.timmons at honeywell.com>
Subject: transferring beer to cornies/hydrometer woes

John Martin asks about transferring beer from keg to corny. I have done this
on several occasions when I had Sanke kegs left over from a party. I rigged
up a connection to go from the Sanke keg outlet to ball lock inlet to my
Corny keg. Clean, sanitize, and purge the Corny and transfer the beer
directly, slowly bleeding off pressure on the Corny keg, just like
counterpressure filling a bottle. It works best if it is cold, and you may
have to adjust the carbonation afterward depending on how carefully you
transfer.  

Rick Foote is having problems with hydrometers. I have broken a couple by
immersing them in hot wort when the glass hydrometer is too cool. I actually
heard the glass crack once. The remedy is to pre-cool the sample you are
trying to test, or pre-warm the hydrometer. Glass is very brittle (duh!) and
doesn't like quick changes in temperature. I pre-cool to at least 150F
before testing hot wort. Use an cool water bath to avoid cracking the wort
container.
     
Frank Timmons
James River Homebrewers
Richmond, VA



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:06:03 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Fridge in unheated garage

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #3475, Jim Steinbrunner ponders whether to put his beer fridge
in the basement or in his unheated garage. I'd recommend the basement
if possible. Storing a fridge in sub-freezing temperatures won't
affect the refrigeration system. However, the compressor must always
be kept warmer than the fridge cabinet interior. See my post in HBD
#3458 for a more complete explanation of why.

Now for something completely different...

 The proprietor of a local pub has recently seen a reference to an
English pub game called "Ring the Bull" and would like to offer it to
his patrons. He has not been successful in finding enough construction
details and asked if I knew where to ask.

 One apparently plays the game by attempting to toss a ring, which is
hung from the ceiling on a rope, onto the horn of a bull's head, which
is mounted on the wall. Style apparently counts and additional points
are awarded to the artful tosser.

 Since the HBD is an international forum I offered to post his
question here in hopes that some of our fellow brewers from accross
the pond could help. He would like rules for game play and any
relevant construction details, such as how high the bull's head should
be above the floor, how log the rope, etc.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


- --
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(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:33:42 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Yeast behavior observation

Chris Cooper ponders twin batches which fermented to different degrees in
the same amount of time:

>One batch is at 1.006 and the other is at 1.012 
>I am just curious and need to ask WHY?   
>...
>Now an observation, could it be that the lack of back-pressure (due to the 
>improper seal) for those first 10 days of fermentation resulted in the
batch
>achieving a higher attenuation ?  

Three things:

Glen's first rule of Biology is that two seperate, but identical biological
systems or organisms will never behave EXACTLY like each other.  This
includes all characteristics and measures.  The plain old fact is that they
are seperate and therefore, distinct.  Hey, there's a lot of math in the
Biological Sciences but ther's also a little voodoo ;-)

The second possibility, and I can't tell from your post, is that you used
two tubes - one for each fermenter.  If you did, the two tubes are not
necessarily identical.  They could be from seperate batches at the plant.
That could account for differences in cell activity (age), concentration,
fill volume, handling, storage, etc...  If they were from the same batch,
handled and stored the same you should be able to narrow it down to fill
volume variations + Glen's first rule of Biology.  If you used one tube or
mixed the contents of two before adding then you may have added different
amount to the fermenter.  And then add Glen's first rule of Biology ;-)

And lastly we have CO2.  The pressure differences between the two would be
minor.  The water in that lock doesn't weigh much, but you might have gotten
some gas exchange from the atmosphere thereby introducing some extra O2 and
shifting the CO2 concentration lower.  Both of which may have helped growth.

There are some things from my old job that I actually do miss.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:46:56 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Chiller testing

Danny Breidenbach has questions about Chiller testing:

>I'm looking for input on a quick and dirty way to test whether my
>chiller is truly well-sanitized.  I'm thinking of something similar to a
>wort-stability test ... where I run something through my chiller, then
>let it sit for a couple of days to see if anything nasty grows.  
>....
>Would such a test tell me anything at all?

This is similar to what the phamaceutical/biological/medical device
manufacturing industry calls a "media test".  Run media through your lines
at some point of the manufacturing process and test the media for
contamination.  This is typical testing for the processing of injectible
medicines or biologicals.  It's good enough for beer.  I would use a small
amount of wort made from malt extract vs. sugar water.  I'd also make a
small volume control which has done everything the media has except for
going through the chiller.  This way you'll have a baseline to compare with.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:16:25 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Graham's Zn woes

Graham Sanders wrote about trying to remedy the low levels of Zn in his
water. Graham, I think you nicely stated the situation but I'd advise
against doing additions along the lines of large chunks of Zn-containing
metal objects such as you described. Doing this will lead to unpredictable
levels in your wort so you could either undershoot or end up with too much
Zn which is itself problematic. Seems to me that the best bet is to add a
small volume of sterile Zn solution to the wort after cooling and whatever
break-removal you normally do. This will eliminate losses of Zn to the grain
bed and minimize losses to precipitation during the boil and complexation to
the break material.  It would also be a good idea to bump up the levels in
your yeast starter if you make one. If you have the equipment it would be
very interesting to try splitting a batch or two and see what (if any)
difference you get by adding Zn versus no addition. It might also be worth
checking on the levels of other important metals such as Ca and Mg in your
water. Were you actually seeing any problems with your beers using this
water? If not then you may be getting all the metals you need from your
mash.

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:37:46 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: Low gravity brewing

Sorry gang, I just can't resist any longer ...

For really good low gravity brewing, you might get to as high an
altitude as possible, but you're not going to get any REALLY good low
gravity brewing until you set up a brewhouse in the Intl. Space Station
or something.

hmmmm .... toss some yeast into Tang ... hootch for astronauts!

- --Danny B.  Planted squarely on terra firma in West Lafayette, Indiana



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:45:32 -0600
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: Garage Frig Too Cold in Winter?

Jim Steinbrunner writes,
> If it's in the garage, how would the refrigeration system
>long periods of below-freezing temps, and will I freeze beer,
>etc. inside?


Jim,

Put a small fan in the frig.  This will raise the temp somewhat.  It does
not take much.  Remember, a frig is just an insulated box.  And as the old
joke about Mr. Colman goes, "It keeps cold things cold and hot things hot.
How does it Know which one to do?!"

I have two garage refrigerators.  I put a fan/heater in my frig dedicated to
fermentation (best way to brew year round in the south).  In addition to
keeping the temp up in the winter, the air movement also helps during
fermentation to carry away heat, and prevents cold zones top to bottom, thus
stabilizing the temp throughout the carboy.  Of course this is not as
important for a storage/dispensing frig.

I added a small space heater, i.e. the kind that you put under a desk for a
foot warmer.  It has a fan only, and three heat settings.  I found that the
fan only setting generates some heat, enough to keep the temp up, (yes it
does get cold here too!)  You might be able to get away with only a small
box fan, like the one in the back of your computer.....Radio Shack about
$10.00.  For trying to keep the frig temp up around 35-45 F I'm sure the fan
would be enough.  I  have a keggerator in the same garage with no fan,
heater or otherwise.  It has no problems in the winter (granted, your winter
is harsher than Tennessee).   If you are really worried, get the small
heater, but I can tell you that even on its lowest heat setting, the frig
runs all the time with one working against the other.  The temp holds
perfectly for ale fermentation in a 20-30 F degree garage, but be prepared
for the arrival of the electric bill!  No SWMBO here so at least I don't
have hear about it, I just have a beer while I pay the bill.





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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:45:36 -0600
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: Subject: Packaged water salts

I have had some thoughts on the subject of pre-packaged water salts as well.
I'm starting to get comfortable with adjusting the local water  Thanks to
programs like Pro Mash (no affiliation) I can quickly determine type and
quantity of salts needed.  My problem is measurement of the salts.  Few
homebrewers have a gram scale or other suitable means to measure out the
required salts.  Most try a rough volumetric approach or more likely they
use the TLAR approach (That Looks About Right).

If the salts were available in pre-measured amounts, such as tablets, small
as they might be, it would be much simpler for the homebrewer to adjust
their local water.  Hello Prime Tabs (no affiliation), are you listening?  I
would buy them!

Drink Better Beer!

Kevin Jones




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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:46:39 -0500
From: Kari.Likovuori at pt2.tempo.mol.fi

To: post@hbd.org
From: "Likovuori Kari" <Kari.Likovuori at pt2.tempo.mol.fi>
Date: 10 Nov 2000 12:25:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Anyone ID this keg type?

>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:55:35 -0700
>From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
>Subject: Anyone ID this keg type?
>
> I just came in possession of two kegs (thanks to Steve Alexander, for the
> ideas on where to look and the contact names), they look to be Sanke from
> first appearance, yet have shorter chimes, and do not have the recessed lug
> Sanke tap recepticle.
>
> They do have a table-top type appearance on the center part, it looks like a
> special tap slides over the mating plate, flat surface to flat surface with
> some sort of clip underneath to hold the surfaces mated.  The center is a
> rubber washer with about a 2 cm dia. spring-loaded stainless plate for a
> pressure valve.  There is a trefoil-shaped pattern on the stainless plate
> probably from the part of the tap that depressed it.

If the plate is round the coupler is the type often used in
Germany. If it is triangular it is European/Bass coupler. More
info from a great site http://www.kegworks.com/pages/draft/couplers.html.

Kari Likovuori
- --
 ** Stadin Panimo Oy - Helsinki Downtown Brewery Ltd. **
     Kylsaarenkatu 14, FIN-00580 Helsinki, Finland
  Phone: +358 (0)50 525 3608 Fax: +358 (0)50 7525 3608
           E-mail: Kari.Likovuori at stadinpanimo.fi


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:08:07 -0800
From: Fred Eckhardt <eckhardt at pcez.com>
Subject: Conversion factors degrees Baume to specific gravity


>CONVERSION FACTORS DEGREES BAUME TO SPECIFIC GRAVITY
>In response to the following regarding conversion factors between Baume 
>and specific gravity.
>From: "Fab & Simon" <bluetrees at picknowl.com.au>
>Subject: Degrees baume to %v/v
>Greeting to the collective. Hope this is an easy one. A friend has a
>hydrometer that is in degrees baume and would like to covert to %v/v. Is
>Baume equivalent to Degrees plato? Does anyone have a formula I could pass
>on?

>Here are some figures on the conversion between degrees Baume and specific 
>gravity. They are basically ball-park figures I worked out to deal with 
>conversions between Sake Meter Values (SMV) and sg. 10 SMV = 1 degree 
>Baume, I've eliminated the SMV part of the table.
>
>Specific Gravity-Plato-Baume
>CONVERSION TABLE
>(60F/15.5C)
>(c) 2000 by Fred Eckhardt, all rights reserved
>may not be reproduced for resale
>
>SG      Plato   Baume
>0.989   -2.8    -1.58
>0.990   -2.6    -1.46
>0.991   -2.3    -1.31
>0.992   -2.05   -1.17
>0.993   -1.8    -1.02
>0.994   -1.5    -0.88
>0.995   -1.3    -0.73
>0.996   -1.0    -0.58
>0.997   -0.8    -0.43
>0.998   -0.3    -0.29
>0.999   -0.26   -0.14
>1.000   0       0
>1.001   0.26    0.14
>1.0019  0.50    0.281
>1.002   0.5     0.29
>1.0025  0.641   0.36
>1.003   0.8     0.43
>1.004   1.0     0.58
>1.005   1.3     0.73
>1.006   1.5     0.88
>1.007   1.8     1.02
>1.008   2.05    1.17
>1.009   2.3     1.31
>1.010   2.56    1.46
>1.012   3.1     1.75
>Table is not for professional use
>
>1-degree Baume = 6.95 specific gravity degrees, there are variables above 
>about 1.020 as there are in degrees Plato. I would suppose there are. I do 
>not know. Possibly they conform to the variables in degrees Plato (see my 
>previous entry on these pages). These are ballpark figures, not for 
>professional use.
>
>To convert negative Baume to s.g. (under 1.000)
>1-(negative Baume x 0.00695) = negative s.g. (less than 1.000)
>
>To convert Baume to s.g.
>1+(Baume x 0.00695) = positive s.g. (above 1.000)
>
>The factor gets up to 0.008 or so at 1.120 levels it is variable, but if 
>you need professional specifics go to Hough, Briggs and Stevens, Malting 
>and Brewing Science, 1971: London Chapman Hall. There's a newer edition 
>(but FOUR volumes) and you can get it through Interlibrary Loan. There are 
>wonderful conversion tables in the back, although they are difficult to 
>use, but on p654-5 is one between sp.gr. and Baume.




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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:57:18 EST
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chiller testing

Danny wrote:

"I'm looking for input on a quick and dirty way to test whether my
chiller is truly well-sanitized.  I'm thinking of something similar to a
wort-stability test ... where I run something through my chiller, then
let it sit for a couple of days to see if anything nasty grows.  I do
NOT want to use a full batch of beer to test is, even though that would
be the gold standard, I guess.

One idea I thought up was: run a couple of gallons of sugar water
through, using my best sanitation practices throughout.  Let the sugar
water sit on a shelf, sealed up tight, for a couple of days, then sniff,
taste, etc. to see if anything nasty happened."

- ----------------------------------------------

Actually, this is somewhat similar to a Biologic Oxygen Demand (BOD) test 
performed for wastewater. A quantity of wastewater is added to a nutrient 
solution and the container is capped with a ballon. The rate of inflation of 
the ballon is correlated to the initial microbe population.

In the case of checking a chiller for contamination, I suggest cleaning and 
sanitizing the chiller as usual. Then fill the chiller with the sterile 
sugar or wort solution. One end is capped and the other end recieves the 
balloon. Of course, the balloon needs to fit tightly to the chiller tubing 
to make a good seal. With the balloon at the uppermost point, gas generation 
will inflate the balloon over time.

You're on your own as to what rate of inflation consistutes an infection. 
Off hand, I would say that you were pretty clean if you didn't have any 
inflation after 5 days. Recognize that this time is just a SWAG on my part.

Good luck with it and let us know what the results are.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL

"Meandering to a different drummer"


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:29:05 -0800
From: "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: yeast starter questions

hello all,
this is my virgin post to the homebrew digest.  i'm fairly new to brewing,
started drinking my fourth batchon election night.  needed something to get
me through this ordeal, and what better than an english old ale weighing in
at 8% alc/vol (it's overcarbonated, but live and learn).  ever since my
second batch i've been using liquid yeast, gold ol' wyeast smack packs, and
this whole starter thing has me a little confused.  the whole gravity issue
has been addressed recently, so i'll let that sit.  my questions are more
concerned with process.  typically i boil a mini-wort for about 20-30
minutes, chill it and pitch the yeast (obviously after the pack has
swollen).  but now, when is the best time to pitch this yeast?  do i wait
for the krausen to crash?  or would it be better pitch when the yeast are
vigorously fermenting and the foamy top is still there?  also, i was
wondering what people store their starters in.  i've used glass bottle with
my airlock resting on type to plastic cups with plastic wrap sealed with a
rubber band.  well, thanks in advance.

cld


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:30:39 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Suitable Plastic / PrePackaged Salts / SG and %Alcohol / Heating a 

Lee Smith wants to know about plastic in brewing.  Short answer:  no
PVC, no ABS, CPVC rated OK to 180F for water only.  Will CPVC work with
wort?  I have used CPVC valves for a long time and the only thing I've
noticed is that the rubber seals tend to dry out rather quickly
(probably due to long exposure to heat).  Wort is chemically a different
animal than water so no guarantees.

=====

Several people have posted about making pre-packaged salts for brewing.

One possible snag in the pre-packaged salts idea is that chalk (a good
source of calcium and carbonate) does not like to dissolve in water.
When I use chalk I add it to the mash tun since the low pH helps to
incorporate it into the wort.  If not done carefully you could screw up
your mash pH and hamper the mash effectiveness.  You want to add enough
chalk to properly treat the MASH VOLUME (not the 7 gallons you're
starting with) or you will risk over-alkalizing the wort.  The remainder
could be added to the sparged wort, again based on the wort volume.  So
either the chalk would be packaged separately or the instructions must
be clear about this point.

Any thoughts??

=====

Just a quick thought on the SG to %Alcohol conversion that's been
discussed lately.  Looking at the charts that have been posted reminded
me of a rule of thumb, close enough for hand grenades and atom bombs.
For most typical beers that start in the 1.040 - 1.060 range (give or
take) and end in the 1.010 to 1.020 range (give or take), just take the
last two digits of the starting SG.  A 1.055 starting SG beer will yield
around 5.5% ABV.  Not rocket science but gets you a quick estimate.

=====

Jim Steinbrunner asks about heating a Fermentation Chiller.  You're
right about adding a 120V heater -- don't!  It can be a shock hazard and
a fire hazard.  The thermostat itself will not handle the 120V load
current, especially when it switches on and off (arcing).

If you're electrically inclined, you could try using the thermostat to
control a relay which in turn controls something "gentle" like a ceramic
terrarium heater.  I'm not even sure I would do this to be honest.  And
certainly, the idea of a light bulb or hair dryer element in the
polystyrene box scares the hell out of me.

- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com




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