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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Celis Brewery (Drew Beechum)
  question re: Hefe yeast (Darrell.Leavitt)
  FG ("stephen_weiss")
   ("Bridges, Scott")
  RE:Wierd Yeast (Rod Prather)
  Hoses for pumps (Chris Topoleski)
  Celis Beer Keg ("Max Brandenberger")
  Strange yeast formations ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Brewing with Steam? (Marc Donnelly)
  Re: Krupnik ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Lallemand Danstar-London (ensmingr)
  Celis Brewery (Rusty)
  False Bottom From Aluminum? ("Schneider, Brett")
  Green Bullet ("Keith Menefy")
  Lagering under pressure ("Kevin Jones")
  Re: LINKS - Request for off list responses (Jay Pfaffman)
  Gram Scale ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Celis Brewing, keg conversion, source of perforated 304 sheet? ("Dave Howell")
  RE: RE: Tip for Pressure Cookers (james r layton)
  lumpy foam ("lauritsm")
  Headless weizen/managing excessive blowoff ("David G. Humes")


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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:23:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
Subject: Celis Brewery

Celis ain't dead yet. 

Pierre Celis came over from Belgium after much time brewing Hoegaarden 
White. Decided to have some fun in the new world after one of the
Belgian Megas (Interbrau?) bought Hoegaarden. 

Open Celis. Made Celis White, an Austin Tx Wit. (Which I still like
better than Ho) An honest to god tasty beer made in Texas. (yeah,
yeah, yeah.. Shiner Bock doesn't qualify. :) )

Got bought by Miller. Surprisingly, they haven't screwed it up.. yet.

Them's the basic facts.. others know them better than I. 

Hmm.. back to studying for the BJCP.

- -- Drew

Request Address Only - No Articles writes:
 > From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
 > It's second-to-last owner before me (the last was a junkyard) was an outfit
 > called Celis Brewing, Inc, in Austin, TX.  Just for curiosity's sake (Phil
 > Yates, no feline observations, please) does anyone know any history on this
 > (I assume now defunct) brewer?  What they brewed?  What happened to them?

BTW - I don't like the rejection on subject title. means I'm always
send my HBD mail twice. :)


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:13:14 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: question re: Hefe yeast

I recently brewed a hefe with some slurry that had been pitched twice
before.  It took off real quick, but I noticed that there was no head.
Perhaps I have never noticed this before, but even the next morning, while
bubbling away at a real good pace, there still was no discernable head.  Is
this common for the hefe (whitelabs 300) yeast?

 ..Darrell



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:49:01 -0500
From: "stephen_weiss" <stephen_weiss at email.msn.com>
Subject: FG

What are my options if the FG has stabalized at 1.020 when it should be =
1.012.  Should I:
Add a shot of fresh yeast?
Bottle it?
Add zinc?
Or what?

Thanks,

Steve




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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:54:27 -0500
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: 


>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:19:46 -0500
>From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" <taliesin2 at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Brewery business goes flat
>
>  Thought this story might be of interest...
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/481184.asp?0nm=B28G

Shane's recent posting about Catamount failing prompts me to also write
about a brewery that I recently saw sad news on.  For any of you in the
western PA region, I saw that Jones Brewing in Smithton has filed for
Chapter 11.  Their main seller is Stoney's.  My dad's favorite beer.  It's
your typical bud-type lager.  They are a very old regional brewery (WWII
era, at least), and I'm sad to see them facing the troubles that many
breweries are today, even though I don't really care for the beer.  

Scott
Brewing in SC



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:23:44 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: RE:Wierd Yeast

Concerning the phenomena of yeast adhering to one side of a vertical bottle.

Did you by chance notice which side of the bottle had the yeast growth.  No, I
know it was the inside....... Was it facing North or South.  It could provide
insight to the old adage that moss always grows on the south side of a tree
(probably the north side in Australia).  Were they all on the same side of the
bottle.  Yeah, I know, the inside, right.  Again, north or south.  If you had
left the bottles in place you might have been able to delineate the difference
between true north and magnetic north proving that the yeast has an affinity for
magnetic fields.  I hear magnets cure arthritis.  Maybe you could glue a magnet
on the side of a bottle and check for the appearance of deposits.  (make sure
the magnet is facing EAST. <GRIN>  If nothing else, your yeast won't develop
arthritis.
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Tongue engaged firmly in Cheek in Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:22:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Topoleski <chris_topoleski at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hoses for pumps

Mike Pensinger asks about the best hoses for mag
pumps. It depends on what you want to use the pumps
for, but I use norprene for transferring all liquids
from the boil kettle (strike water, sparge water, post
boil hot wort). I use flexible braided pvc tubing on
the outflow side of the pump to the HLT and the MLT. I
also use the norprene to pump to my CF chiller. The
pump should have a ball valve on the outflow side to
control flow, as you really shouldn't restrict the
flow into the pump.

I am happy with the norprene and the braided PVC. The
norprene was the more expensive of the two types of
hosing ($3.50/foot) as opposed to the $1 a foot for
the PVC. All my hoses are 1/2" ID except the norprene
to the chiller which is 3/8" ID to match the copper
tubing in the chiller. Most of my hoses utilize quick
disconnects. I purchased it all through Moving Brews. 

Chris Topoleski
MonkeyBoy Brewery

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:38:55 -0600
From: "Max Brandenberger" <maxb at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Celis Beer Keg

Dave Howell wrote:
It's second-to-last owner before me (the last was a junkyard) was an outfit
called Celis Brewing, Inc, in Austin, TX.  Just for curiosity's sake
(PhilYates, no feline observations, please) does anyone know any history on
this (I assume now defunct) brewer?  What they brewed?  What happened to
them?

Dave,
Celis Brewing is alive and well in Austin, Texas. It was founded in the
early 1990s by Pierre Celis, a Belgian brewmaster, and his family. Their
most famous brew is a very refreshing, authentic Belgian style wheat beer
called Celis White. They also brew Belgian style grand cru and dubbel ale, a
pale bock, and an interesting raspberry beer. See their website,
http://www.celis.com.

Max Brandenberger



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:45:27 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Strange yeast formations

Grant Scott wrote of Strange Yeast Formations:

>So I look closer & find that it appears that
>some of the yeast is clinging to one side of the bottle & that it seems to
>form fine vertical lines. This appears to have occurred in at least a third
>of the bottles & these bottles have been kept vertical since bottling.

>So can anyone recall if consensus was reached on what causes this
>phenomenon. Is it static electricity, Magnetic north, one side being
warmer,
>a shift in the space time continuum?

Some thought it might have to do with the charge on the yeast and the charge
on the bottle (or the box walls containing the bottles).  Others thought it
may have to do with uneven heat.  But after careful scientific analysis and
much hair-pulling we have come to the collective conclusion that these yeast
are being drawn by an ancient & mysterious zymergological force known as the
Rennarian Field Effect.  You will notice that these yeast will all be
pointing to Jeff Renner's house.  These bottles can be used as a type of
compass to find true Rennarian North.  We have even devised a Rennarian
Coordinate System with Jeff's house being at 0, 0, 0.  Now I have a theory,
which I need to test with a bottle of my barleywine which displayed this
phenomenon, that the yeast actually point to Jeff himself!  As Jeff moves,
so will the yeast. 

But *WHY* they do this is a bigger mystery... [ any takers? ]


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 00 09:15:34 -0600
From: Marc Donnelly <marc at deptstores.dhc.com>
Subject: Brewing with Steam?

Does any have any experience with brewing with steam?  Also is there any 
links to sites out there with information on how to set up a steam system 
for homebrewing?

thanks


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:15:47 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Krupnik

CeolNaFidhil at aol.com  asks about Krupnik.  I have a bottle in front of me. 

The label says:
	Monastery (brand)
	Honey Punch
	American
	Krupnik Liqueur
	Composed of roots, herbs, spices, fruits, and honey
	70 Proof
	Prepared & Bottled by National Cordial Company
	Chicago, Illinois, 60623

On the back label it says:
	Honey Punch
	Delicious when served on the rocks, over crushed ice, on ice cream or
fresh fruit.

Taste wise, it is a poor man's Chartreuse.  The flavor (to me) falls
somewhere between the "yellow" Chartreuse and the "green" Chartreuse but
harsher and not as complex.

You could try for the recipe for Chartruese but, of course that recipe is
shared by 6 monks in the Chartreuse monastery in France, with no single
monk knowing all the ingredients. Also there may be a "mirror" site  at a
monastery in Spain where the recipe is also shared.

Interestingly, a few years ago I went to a homebrew tasting and someone
brought in a bottle of mead.  He said it was an attempt to make a sparkling
mead but it didn't sparkle.  The flavor was quite close to that of Krupnik.

Hope this helps,

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:29:50 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Lallemand Danstar-London

I have 3 packages of Lallemand Danstar London yeast (dated
03-98). Anyone interested? Drop me a line.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:08:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Rusty <kahuna_kapu at yahoo.com>
Subject: Celis Brewery

Dave,

Celis brewery is alive and well in Austin, TX.  In
fact, I believe Pierre Celis was featured in last
month's BYO magazine, for his White Beer.

http://www.celis.com

Since I've left Austin and gone to Orlando, I'd kill
for a Grand Cru.  It definitely put a spin on the
nightlife there.

V/R,
Rusty



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!
http://calendar.yahoo.com/


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:15:23 -0500
From: "Schneider, Brett" <Brett_Schneider at bose.com>
Subject: False Bottom From Aluminum?

I have found SS sheet stock to be the most expensive part of having a false
bottom custom made. One has to buy and entire sheet, which makes the CNC
punch press set-up costs appear to be less since you have to run the whole
sheet. So what about a slightly heavier aluminum sheet for the material.
PLEASE - don't start the stuff up again about the material, let's just
concentrate on it's application:

I need a 15-7/8" OD bottom, which will be supported all around the OD by a
weld seam in my tun. This means that even 18 gage SS would need additional
screw type support legs in the center areas to keep from collapsing under
the 40 lb grain bed. Facts are facts.

Now, if I went with say 0.050 or so aluminum plate to reduce material cost,
with the same mechanical concerns and same added perf size (3/32 holes on
5/32 centers which is typical), would there be any other things to consider?
Since aluminum is used for kettles and heated directly, the heat factor
should go away.

Thanks for any applicable mechanical and or application concerns - Brett


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:00:24 +1300
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Green Bullet 

Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> in HBD 3473 asks about NZ Green
Bullet hops.
See if you can get hold of a NZ Lion Breweries 'Steinlager', it uses green
bullet hops.
Part of their advertising they say "they are drinking our beer here" so
presumably it is available most places.
It is a pilsener type beer.
Here are parts from a couple of reviews of it.

> "Let's see what it tastes like. After a vigorous pour the head quickly
disappeared to leave an attractive golden liquid with a few small bubbles.
The nose was hard to pick; I detected a grassy hoppiness. The initial
flavour was uninspiring, slightly sweet. The action came after a second in
the way of a very fresh, green hop bitterness. Not too overpowering but
enough to get your attention. The finish was dry and refreshing. The alcohol
content, 5% /vol., and the bitterness is what you would compare with a solid
European lager. "

>"Sporting an upmarket, German-sounding name (and a premium price) this beer
was different; pale and refreshing, it had a pungent hop bitterness and
aroma and more importantly, it also had an image."

Personally, I find it more malty than hoppy.

Green bullet is my choice for a bittering hop, very little flavour. I use NZ
Hallertau for flavour
and aroma.
Randy gives it an AA rating of 9.5.
The info I have gives a AA of 11.9.
Would there be any difference between leaf hops and pellet hops?
Given that green bullet has quite a high AA I find that is has a fairly
gentle bittering effect. Unlike Super Alpha or Sticklebrack which give a
harsh bittering.

Keep in mind that I love hops so this is a hopelessly biased assessment.
None of my beers would have an International Bittering Unit rating of less
than 40.

Cheers
Keith





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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:15:35 -0600
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: Lagering under pressure

The question posed was the potential differences between lagering under
pressure or not.  I have made several lager batches and usually split them
with my brew partner.  At times the same beer was lagering in a carboy, a
corny keg with some pressure and a Party Pig.  The Party Pig turned out the
best.  It got better with time, with the last glass an unbelievably pleasant
experience.  We think the primary difference was yeast.  The Party Pig
requires natural carbonation (i.e. priming).  To make sure carbonation would
take place, we added fresh lager yeast to the Party Pig at priming.  Can't
say for sure that fresh yeast made the difference, but I now add fresh yeast
to lagers if priming is involved.

Drink Better Beer!
Kevin Jones




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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:18:01 -0600
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Re: LINKS - Request for off list responses

Well, Shane asked for responses off-list, but this might be of
interest to others. . .

On Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:15:34 -0400, "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard"
<taliesin2 at earthlink.net> said:

> Some how for some reason I lost all my links on home brewing (of
> every aspect).  I still have the links to the mail order supply
> stores though. Just lost my bookmarks. Thanks.

I've started organizing my brewing links using on a tool that I
designed primarily for schools, but it's good for anyone who needs to
maintain a list of links.  Anyone can contribute more by going to the
"how to participate" link and signing up for a password.  [I don't
think I've published a privacy policy, but I won't use or sell your
address for anything, though it is available to people who have gone
to the trouble of logging in.]

Anyway, you can see what I've got (and add more if you like) at:

    http://webliographer.com/brew/

I've got a bit more work to do, but it's a start.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-615-343-1720 (office)               +1-615-460-9299 (home) 
http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/




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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:43:28 -0500
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: Gram Scale

The gram scale I use for my water salt additions is from Williams Brewing -
their Counter Balance Scale for $29.90

 http://www.williamsbrewing.com/wort.htm#Brewing%20Scales

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Reif Hammond



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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:01:49 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
Subject: Celis Brewing, keg conversion, source of perforated 304 sheet?

In re the second-to-last owners of my new HLT and mash tun:

Celis, it turns out, is still in business.  Thanks to all who replied.  I
will have to go back to Texas and try some of their brews (they are not
available in my corner Albertson's).

The kegs, when opened, had a small amount of light amber beer in them.  They
were very very malty (by smell, people, by smell), and had no hop nose.  I
have no idea how long they'd been in the junkyard, in the Phoenix sun (it
gets to 115 deg F, 46 deg C, regularly in the summer), but I suspect it
didn't do the aroma or coloration any good.

So, I have no idea which of Celis' brews were in the keg.

Further, it looks like at least once each keg was laid on its' side on
something very hot (hot enough to scorch & carbonize beer onto the side of
the kegs).  A 12-hour soak in lye solution floated all the crud off, and
then (after some neutralization) a bunch of scrubbing did the trick.  Why
didn't I listen to my wife and wear rubber gloves?  I had the ultimate case
of dishpan hands....

I can reliably assure those who ask about the power of a Dremel tool that
they indeed cut stainless.  I did it in 20 min/keg, cutting out a 12 in
circle from the top, with the use of 5 reinforced disks each.  The trick, as
others have noted before me, is to keep on top of the cut.  If you start
getting the disk sawing instead of abrading (work with me on the visuals,
please), you very very quickly chew the blade up.  If I do this routinely or
even again, I will probably use a die grinder/cutoff wheel air tool with a 3
1/4 in wheel, I suspect it will last longer and be quicker.  I saw that
suggestion on someone's web page or maybe in the HBD archives, sorry I
cannot attribute it better (but I'm grateful to whomever suggested it).

I can find male unions and compression fittings locally in stainless.  Can
anyone suggest a source of 304 perforated (I'm not too picky about the hole
pattern) #2B sheet?  One that LIKES small orders?  And maybe ships (unless
they're in the Phoenix metro area)?

TIA,


Dave Howell


Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.

Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!




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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:53:20 -0600
From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Tip for Pressure Cookers

A couple of days back, I wrote...

>> anyway. In a rare moment of lucidity, I thought about trying keg
>> lube on the seal. I shut off the burner, removed the seal from the
>> lid, dried it off, and applied a thin coating of the silicone grease.
>> Put it all back together and bingo! Works like a champ now.

 ...and Some Guy replied:

>Most pressure cooker manufacturers recommend putting a thin film of
>vegetable oil on the seal at each use. One case where actually reading
>the directions would have saved a tad bit of concern :-)

OK, I admit it, I didn't read the directions that night. I have since
found the instruction booklet and conducted the research. Odd, but it
seems that I have a model that specifically warns against using vegetable
oil on the sealing ring.  Quoting from the booklet, Presto Pressure
Canner and Cooker Instructions and Recipes, "IMPORTANT: Never oil the
sealing ring. Cooking oil will swell and soften the sealing ring,
reducing the usable life and require frequent replacement."

There! I knew there must have been some reason that I had never oiled the
sealing ring in the seven years that I have owned this cooker. Now, they
don't say that silicone grease is any better for the health of the seal
than cooking oil, so it probably is time for a replacement. Still, keg
lube solved the immediate problem and allowed me to complete the task
that I had started.

Thanks, Pat, for providing the motivation to dig out that booklet. I have
re-learned something :-)

Jim Layton
Howe, TX   


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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:53:57 -0800
From: "lauritsm" <lauritsm at email.msn.com>
Subject: lumpy foam

Constant reader......occasional writer.

I get lumpy foam on my pale ale. When the faom settles down it creates
lumps. Doesn't taste bad....just looks weird. This was a partial mash batch.
8 lbs pale malt, 1 lb crystal, 1/8 lb chocolate, 3lbs light extract.

Any ideas?

M





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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:43:42 -0500
From: "David G. Humes" <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Headless weizen/managing excessive blowoff

Greetings,

First, thanks for the many posts and private replies about how to improve my
headless weizen.  I brewed a weizenbock this weekend to which I applied a
modified mash schedule based on the consensus from the replies.  I dropped
the 113 and 131 rests, mashed in at 145 and held for 30 min, boosted to 154
and held that for 60 min.  The grain bill consisted of 60% wheat malt and
40% dark Munich, and since the dark Munich does not have quite the enzymatic
strength of Pils malt, I thought I'd give it a little longer to convert.  I
want to compare this beer to one made with the ferulic acid rest included,
so next go around I'm going to put the ferulic acid rest back in, lowering
it to around 110, and then see how fast I can boost my temperature from 113
to 145 to keep away from excessive proteolysis.

So, now it's happily fermenting away blowing off huge amounts of foam.  I
have 4.75 gal in each 6 gal carboy, so there's quite a bit of head space,
but that's not stopping the blowoff.  I'm a little concerned since this is a
weizenbock, OG 1.069, that it may blow off too much yeast and not have
enough to finish.  I know some professional brewers use antifoam agents to
get maximum utilization the volume of their fermenters.  One product is
based on silicone and must be removed in subsequent filtration.  I'm not
going to do that, especially for a Bavarian wheat beer.  Another alternative
is the mineral oil based agent.  Is anyone familiar with it?  The claim is
that it does not have to be removed and that it improves head, I suppose
based on the theory that excessive foaming during the fermentation results
in lost heading quality in the final beer.  I believe there's some
controversy over this latter point.  However, if anyone is familiar with the
product and can discuss its effectiveness, I'd like to hear from you.

Thanks.

- --Dave





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---