---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Lagering under pressure (Christopher Farley)
  ServoMyces (Zinc) - Perceptions of Taste (craftbrewer)
  In Defence Of Graham ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Wierd Yeast Phenomena (Rod Prather)
  HBD Servers On The MOVE! (Some Guy)
  Holland/Belgium Brew Tour (Bob Hall)
  RE:  FG ("Houseman, David L")
  northwest beerfest at Redbones, boston, MA review ("Czerpak, Pete")
  lag time ("Richard Parnell")
  RE: anti-foam agents ("Brian Lundeen")
  moss growth (Headduck)
  yeast not finishing the job ("Alan Meeker")
  bottle in front of me (Headduck)
  mysterious heavy haze (Roy Roberts)
  Rennarian Force ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re: perforated 304 SS, aluminum false bottom, hoses for pumps ("Brian D. Kern")
  Tinting glass bottles ("J. Doug Brown")
  RE: RE: Tip for Pressure Cookers (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Stupid Brewer Tricks (Epic8383)
  The secret to hop flavor? ("Peed, John")
  Disappointed ..... with dry yeast (darrell.leavitt)
  Weyermann Pilsner Malt ("Bruce M. Mills")
  Re:re:re:Tips for pressure cookers (fwd) (Some Guy)
  First beer ("Glenn G. Williams")
  steam (kbooth)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:44:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Lagering under pressure

In HBD #3478 "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> The question posed was the potential differences between lagering under
> pressure or not.  I have made several lager batches and usually split them
> with my brew partner.  At times the same beer was lagering in a carboy, a
> corny keg with some pressure and a Party Pig.  The Party Pig turned out the
> best.  It got better with time, with the last glass an unbelievably pleasant
> experience.  We think the primary difference was yeast.  The Party Pig
> requires natural carbonation (i.e. priming).  To make sure carbonation would
> take place, we added fresh lager yeast to the Party Pig at priming.  Can't
> say for sure that fresh yeast made the difference, but I now add fresh yeast
> to lagers if priming is involved.

In the German kraeusening tradition, lagers are racked into a secondary
fermenter with a small portion (~10%) of young beer from a primary
fermenter. The beer is matured under pressure (which I understand varies
widely). 

This yeast in this secondary fermentation consume lager "off-flavors" like
DMS, esters, and diacetyl, making the beer taste cleaner.

It sounds like your Party Pig procedure is similar to kraeusening, which
may explain your preference for that beer.

- ----
Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer / 1150 Grand Avenue / St. Paul, MN 55105
www.northernbrewer.com
 



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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:44:55 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: ServoMyces (Zinc) - Perceptions of Taste


G'Day All

Now I firstly hope that a certain European chap, a man of fine 
upstanding and deep respect from the people of North 
Queensland, don't mind me mentioning this 

BUT

I always said North Queensland was the centre of world 
brewing and so it should be. Brews like Wheat Flour Heffes, 
Christmas Rauch, Krystal Wit, and of course various tropical 
fruit Lambics, like the world beater Lychie Delight and Longing 
for a Longan. So why am I ranting.

Well to show those Southerners that we are sort of one Nation 
(when I choose it that is) they all know that America is the land 
of plenty. Oh how those other OZ brethren envy what they 
have in America. Well its time to turn the tables a bit I feel, if 
only for the benefits for the rest of Aus.

What is it??????

GUESS WHO'S GETTING SERVOMYCES AND YOU DONT 
HAVE IT.

(and yes passports in the mail, and dispensation of the carton 
entry fee has been approved. hey you can even watch the free 
feeding of yanks to my pet saltie)

So I have a lot of experiments in the upcoming year.  I might 
keep you lot informed - but of course, if that carton does arrive, 
well a private sitting can be arranged.

Shout

Graham Sanders

Oh

I have been teaching the future young SWMBO all about beer 
(Moral Americans can just plain shut-up on this one).  Anyway I 
give her my classic Wheat Flour Weissen, a beer I'm quite 
proud of.  Well I explain all the guff on the style etc, so its 
comes to the crunch - "what do you think it smells like" . Well 
floor me quicker than than a Big Red, "Smells like baked 
beans" she says.

Nothing like the innocence of youth to put you in your place.






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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:03:43 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: In Defence Of Graham

Rarely do I stand on my dig and go in to bat for the Queenslanders. They
generally just aren't worth it.

But I have to roll out some comments in defence of Graham given that just of
late he seems to have been given more than his fair share of bagging.

Firstly to the Janitors, you have to appreciate that Graham lives on the
eastern seaboard of Australia. But unlike the rest of the states on the
eastern seaboard, Queensland refuses to comply with daylight saving time.
>From a Queenslander's point of view, the rest of Australia (not to mention
the rest of the world) should work in with Queensland time. So it is quite
understandable that Graham would feel outraged by any variations in delivery
time of the HBD.
How do you argue with this logic?
You can't! They are an irrational lot in QLD.

But to the bloke who suggested Graham was goofy,
How dare you!
Graham has contributed a lot to the HBD and the fact that he despises yanks,
wankers, SWIMBOs and Southerners (eg me) is no cause to suggest he is goofy!

Graham is a happy go lucky nasty piece of homebrewing work and we prefer to
keep him happily tucked away in North Queensland.

Please don't tempt him out of there.

Phil





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:10:25 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Wierd Yeast Phenomena

On several occasions HBD members have noted yeast growing on one side of the
bottle.  No, the inside of course.  <GRIN>  I propose that these home brewers
have noted a yet to be discovered phenomena.  This phenomena could be similar in
scope to the fantastic finding by an african student that under special
circumstances warm water sometimes freezes before cold.  

>From here on out all homebrewers should check their beer bottles for compliance
to this phenomena noting specifics about the brew, yeast, time in bottle, type
of yeast, specific compass direction that the yeast faces and any other
particulars.  DO NOT MOVE THE BOTTLES until the HBD yeast adherence team can
arrive to document the specifics and take samples for study.  I would suppose
that not more than 20 to 30 bottles would be required for the study of each
occurrence.  Of course the brewer would be responsible for any travel expenses
incurred.  

I am hereby volunteering my services for the yeast adherence team.  
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:46:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: HBD Servers On The MOVE! 


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

The HBD servers will (at least to current plans) be moving to their new
location Thursday, 11/16/00. Expect an outage at this time, lasting for an
indefinite time as DNS servers catchup with the change in IP address,
etc. We will do everything in our power to minimize the amount the servers
are down and/or unavailable with this move; however, there is a lot of
network between you and me, and we have no control over how long it takes
for the redirect to propagate to your local machines. Please have
patience!

Any questions or concerns should be directed to babcockp at mediaone.net
during this move. Once the move is complete and email is once again
functioning peoperly on the HBD servers, the cable modem will be shut down
and babcockp at mediaone.net will no longer exist. At that time, you should
be able to revert to using janitor@hbd.org for any questions, comments,
etc...

This message will repeat until the servers are moved.


- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:09:53 +0000
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
Subject: Holland/Belgium Brew Tour

My wife pointed out this tour out from her daily Frommer's e-news. Set
for April and sounds like great fun.
Click over to www.4windstours.com/page37.html

Bob Hall





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:46:56 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE:  FG

How do you know what the FG should have been?  Did you do a terminal gravity
test?  Was this from a recipe?  What was the OG?  Which yeast did you use
(attenuation capability of that yeast strain)?  Are you an all-grain or
extract brewer?  If extract, some extracts, notably Laaglander, have a
notoriously high FG due to high dextrin content.  If it's just a statement
in a recipe, you may or may not reach the FG that someone else did.  If it's
completely fermented, independent of the FG, then bottle it.  Perhaps you
can use, dare we bring that topic up, Dave's test ... no, I can't do it...
Good luck.

Dave Houseman

============================================================================

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:49:01 -0500
From: "stephen_weiss" <stephen_weiss at email.msn.com>
Subject: FG

What are my options if the FG has stabalized at 1.020 when it should be =
1.012.  Should I:
Add a shot of fresh yeast?
Bottle it?
Add zinc?
Or what?

Thanks,

Steve





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:45:32 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: northwest beerfest at Redbones, boston, MA review

I was just out in Boston, MA this past wkend and had the luck of attending
the 6th annual NOrthwest Beerfest held at Redbones in Sommerville.  First
off, Redbones is a #1 choice for quality BBQ food in the New England area.
They also happen to have a fantastic tap selection from breweries across the
nation as well as local stuff.  Check it out if you have never been there or
go back if you have.

November happens to be pacific northwest brewerys month there and they have
6 kegs of this brew on tap at all times.  I actually was there for one of
three brewers dinners - Sunday, Tues, and Wednesday I think with me
attending on sunday night.  Apparently last year some folks complained that
they didn't have enough IPAs so they attempted to make up for it this year.
See further below.

Breweries that sent beer for the entire month included: Alameda from
Portland, OR; Bills Tavern and Brewrey from Cannon Beach, OR; BOundary Bay
from Bellingham, WA; Deschutes from Bend, OR; Elysian from Seattle; Full
Sail from Hood iver, OR; hair of teh Dog from Portland, OR; Hales from
SEattle; Harmon from Tacoma, WA; LaConner from LaConer, WA; Lucky Labrador
from Portland; Lunar from Seattle; maritime from Seattle; Mt. Hood Brewing
from Gov't Camp[, OR; Portland Brewing from Portland; Racoon Lodge from
Portland; Redhook from Portsmouth, NH; Rogue from Newport, OR; Saxer from
lake Oswego, OR; Skagit River from Mt. Vernoin, WA; Snoquamie Falls from
Snoqualmie, WA; Steelhead from Eugene, OR; West Bros from Eugene, OR; Widmer
from Portland; and Wild Duck from Eugene, OR.

Quite the list ehh??

Anyways, the brewers dinner happened to be a fixed price multicourse BBQ
dinner with fine brew selections where they passed pitchers around and made
sure that everyone had atleast a glass or two of each brew offer that night.
They also had a trivia game (lots of brew and politics questions) along with
the beer tastings and talks by visiting brewers from Full Sail and Portland
Brewing.  Cost was $40 per person but quite reasonable after thinking about
the dinner cost, the brew cost, as well as a pint glass too to bring home.
Wish I could have borrowed a keg or two as well.

brews offered on Sunday at the dinner were:
1) Elysian Brewing (seattle) "The Wise ESB" - 1.058, copper colored, very
hoppy and malty ESB, good balance, chinook, cascade, and centennial
2) Full Sail (hood river, OR) "IPA" - 1.064, golden, fruit flavors,
challenger and EKG hops
3) Portland Brewing (Portland, OR) "Woodstock IPA" - 1.064, golden, oak
aged, styled after ballentines of old, no adjuncts though
4) Raccooin Lodge (portland, OR) "IPA" - 1.060, copper color, EKG hops
5) Snoqualmie Falls (Snoqaulmie, WA) "Wildcat IPA" - 1.062, dark gold, 100%
columbus hops to 77 IBU although I couldn't taste the columbus taste that
Anderson Valley IPA has
6) Wild Duck Brewing (Eugene, OR) "Spank Dog Pale Ale" - 15P, bright amber,
100% cascades to 50 IBU
7) Rogue (Newport, OR) "Old Crusty barleywine" - WOW!!!

I don't think that I have ever tasted such a selection of IPAs and beers
with so many IBUs worth of Chinook, cascades, centential, and columbus hops.

They served the "Wildcat IPA" first and this is probably my favorite brew of
the night served.  The hops were assertive and enough malt to back them up.
I probably filled my glass three times with this before the dinner even was
in ful swing.  Other favs were "The Wise ESB" because it was so finely
balanced and right to american ESB style and the "Spank Dog" since it was a
perfect pale ale with all those (100%) cascades.  Of course the "Old Crusty
BW" was phenomenal although it was a bit harse hops and alcoholic bit
wise(don't know how old this keg was) not to mention that the taste buds
were even a bit hopped out which almost never happens to me, with all these
fine hoppy pacific northwest brews.

So if you are out in Beantown this week and have Tuesday or Wednesday night
free, get out and go to the Redbones Brewers dinner with the pacific
northwest fest.  You won't be disappointed. see their website for further
info. If you don't go this year, remember to go next year and invite me
along so that I remember. I only found out abouity it by chance and the
seating is limited at about 70 folks. my night was sold out but the
weekenights weren't.

By the way, every brewery sends atleast 2 or 3 brews to Boston so don't
worry that all the brews are IPAs or pale ales - the list had some porters,
wits, scotch ale, lagers, stouts, imperial stouts, octobrefest, pilsners,
alts, bocks, and the obvious IPAs and, barleywines, and ESBs. The only type
not really in attendance was amerrican style brown ale - that would be a
nice one to try...

Have fun brewing.  Thought you might all be interested in my trip report.
Also got to Northeast Brewing in Boston as well for a few brews the evening
before.

Pete Czerpak
Albany, NY


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:28:23 -0600
From: "Richard Parnell" <rparnel1 at txu.com>
Subject: lag time



I brewed up a batch of pale ale with an OG of 1.050. Siphoned it into the
fermenter with lots of aeration (it had a big foamy head) and pitched about 12
oz of starter made from a White labs WLP-001. Pitching temp of the wort and the
starter was 68'F. It took 50 long hours before I started getting bubbles but now
it is chugging away.

This is the longest lag time I have ever had and it seemed abnormal. Anybody
have any similar experiences or knowledge to add?
I know I should increase the size of the starter and I plan on doing this next
time and maybe that will increase the response time.




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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:42:12 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: anti-foam agents


David Humes writes:

> I know some professional brewers use
> antifoam agents to
> get maximum utilization the volume of their fermenters.  One
> product is
> based on silicone and must be removed in subsequent
> filtration.  I'm not
> going to do that, especially for a Bavarian wheat beer.
> Another alternative
> is the mineral oil based agent.  Is anyone familiar with it?
> The claim is
> that it does not have to be removed and that it improves
> head

This raises a number of interesting questions, not the least of which is,
what the heck am I using? I bought a milky white product from HopTech which
supposedly does not need to be filtered. Is this mineral oil based or
silicone based? If the latter, am I dying a slow death from not filtering
this out and ingesting it? Is this the Crosby and Baker product, or do they
make a different one?

As for your question, I can say it (the HopTech product) does its job in the
fermenter, even reducing a 1007 krausen to manageable levels. As for
improvement in head retention, I haven't done "identical" batches with and
without the anti-foam, so I can't say whether the head retention is better
or worse.

Cheers,
Brian



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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:07:19 EST
From: Headduck at aol.com
Subject: moss growth

In a message dated 11/13/00 11:18:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< It could provide
 insight to the old adage that moss always grows on the south side of a tree
 (probably the north side in Australia). >>

Man, I wouldn't want to be lost in the woods with you!!  Moss grows on the 
north sides of trees (in the northern hemisphere).  Presumedly because this 
is the side that stays moist because it is less likely to have any exposure 
to sunlight.

Joe Yoder
Lawrence, KS


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:59:11 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: yeast not finishing the job

Steve asks about getting his beer to finish out:

>What are my options if the FG has stabalized at 1.020
>when it should be =1.012.  Should I:
>Add a shot of fresh yeast?
>Bottle it?
>Add zinc?
>Or what?


There are several possible causes of low attenuation, most with simple
solutions. First, it is important to know how low you expect your beer to
finish, which you seem to know in this case. 1.020 certainly is high, unless
this is a barleywine! So, here are some common reasons for low attenuation
and remedies you can try:

1) Too few yeast.
     This could be due to too low a pitch, loss of a top-cropping yeast
during blow-off, or premature racking to secondary. The solution here is
obvious: add more yeast! When adding new yeast it's best to add a fresh
culture that has a high viability fraction and is actively growing (simply
dumping in a packet of dried yeast may not do the trick).

2) Fermentation temperature too low.
     In this case the yeast have been rendered metabolically sluggish or may
have flocculated prematurely. Raising the temperature and rousing the yeast
may do the trick here.

3) Fermentation is slow or stuck due to a deficiency.
    You may have a large enough population but the yeast are inactive or
nearly so due to a low amount of some limiting nutrient. Common suspects
include oxygen, nitrogen, vitamin(s) or mineral(s).
    Oxygen is required for the synthesis of key components of the yeast cell
membrane. Too little oxygen availability early in the fermentation (poor
wort aeration) or during the growth of the yeast starter can lead to severe
limits on the number of divisions the population can go through, thus
limiting the population size resulting in too few yeast to do the job (see
#1). But it's even worse than this - such yeast have compromised membrane
function which can alter their fermentation behavior and their viability.
The solution here is not to introduce oxygen into your nearly finished beer
(as staling would result) but rather to add more healthy yeast that were
grown under well-aerated conditions.
    Nitrogen is another key wort component that may become limiting,
especially in high-gravity brewing situations. Usually this is not a problem
in whole-grain worts made from well-modified barley malts. The use of a
large proportion of sugar-rich/nitrogen-poor adjuncts such as cane sugar,
corn syrups, honey, etc. however can essentially "dilute out" the available
nitrogen derived from the barley malt. The remedy here is to add more
bioavailable nitrogen. This is easily accomplished by use of ammonium
compounds such as those contained in "Yeast energizers" or "Yeast
nutrients," follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
    Vitamins seem to be less of a problem, especially if the wort was
extracted from an all-grain recipe. Minerals may be more problematic,
especially if you are using highly purified water such as distilled water.
Possible culprits here include calcium, magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, and
manganese.

4) Mutant yeast
    You started out with a mutant strain of yeast or a spontaneously-arising
mutant took over the population. Unfortunately, yeast mutation can result in
loss of the ability to utilize maltotriose (which may make up some 10% of
the wort sugars) or even worse, maltose. If that's the case then even if
these yeast are healthy they've done all they can do and left sugars still
in solution. The solution here is to add a fresh charge of non-mutant yeast.

5) Dead yeast
    Self-explanatory. Add fresh yeast.

Hope this helps!

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD




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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:10:51 EST
From: Headduck at aol.com
Subject: bottle in front of me

In a message dated 11/13/00 11:18:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< CeolNaFidhil at aol.com  asks about Krupnik.  I have a bottle in front of me. 
 >>

Sure beats a frontal lobotomy... Sorry couldn't help myself.

JY
Lawrence, KS


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:35:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Roberts <psilosome at yahoo.com>
Subject: mysterious heavy haze

Brewed my 3rd all-grain batch this weekend (the other two
turned out great). Used a single infusion mash aiming for
155 deg F (but see below), 45 minutes.  I got good clarity
after lautering, boiled one hour, but noticed practically
no hot break in the kettle after immersion chilling, and
the wort was very cloudy at this stage.  It was almost like
the hot break material didn't want to settle, although I
gave it plenty of time.  Racked to carboy, aerated with a
stone, and went ahead at pitched the starter. That was
Saturday.  It fermented strongly for a day or so.  It is
still extremely cloudy in the carboy with the airlock
bubbling about every 15 seconds. Starting OG 1.053, last
night was 1.020 (tastes basically OK).  I saw that Miller
says this kind of haze can be caused by starch particles
arising from poor conversion or sparging too hot. Checked 
my dial thermometer and it was reading about 6 degrees
high.  Assuming the haze really is starch, could I add
amylase to get rid of it? I suppose I'd have to heat the
beer up to temperature for the enzyme, the probably boil
and re-pitch.  The particles must be very small since I ran
some hazy kettle leftovers through a coffee filter and they
were still cloudy. Interestingly, I pooled this material 
with the late runnings from the sparge (gravity 1.014) and
put it in the fridge where it cleared after cooling. So I
suppose if I were satisifed with the poor yield I could
clarify the beer by chilling later. Recipe specifics below.

Any advice greatly appreciated,
Roy Roberts
NYC

Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL): 5
Grain: 8 lbs. Pale Malt (2-row), 1 lb. Crystal 40L, 1 lbs.
Munich Malt
Hops: 1.25 oz.    Northern Brewer Pellet, First Wort Hopped
Mash Schedule: single infusion, 45 min trying for 155 deg.
F
(after correction, the mash spent most of it's time at
about 149 but fluctuated at 146-152)
OG: 1.053
WYeast 1335 British Ale II, 500 ml starter


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!
http://calendar.yahoo.com/


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:21:21 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Rennarian Force

Glen,

Eureka, you have found it. 


>pointing to Jeff Renner's house.  These bottles can be used as a type of
>compass to find true Rennarian North.  We have even devised a Rennarian
>Coordinate System with Jeff's house being at 0, 0, 0.  Now I have a
theory,
>which I need to test with a bottle of my barleywine which displayed this
>phenomenon, that the yeast actually point to Jeff himself!  As Jeff moves,
>so will the yeast. 
>
>But *WHY* they do this is a bigger mystery... [ any takers? ]

The Fifth Force.  Scientists have been searching for the Fifth Force for
years.  They have pinned down the first four forces, The nuclear Strong
Force and Weak Force, then the Electric Force and Gravitational Force. 
NOW, FINALLY, the Fifth Force, Rennarian Force.

Let's see, what are its characteristics?  

	Works only on certain organisms, so far the only known one is beer yeast
cells.
	Acts only within beer bottles.  (Any correlation on bottle color?)
	Any correlation between the strength of the force and:
		Hopping rate
		Lovibond
		Alcohol level -watch out Glen, your barleywine may be beamed directly to
Jeff.


>
>
>Carpe cerevisiae!
>
>Glen Pannicke


Carpe the Fifth Force.  (pardon my beer Latin)

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0 Degrees 44.00 Min North, 4 Degrees 56.36 Min. East of Jeff Renner.


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:29:05 -0800 (PST)
From: "Brian D. Kern" <bdk at srl.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: perforated 304 SS, aluminum false bottom, hoses for pumps

Dave Howell asks in HBD 3478:

> ... Can anyone suggest a source of 304 perforated #2B sheet?

I don't know what #2B is, but look to www.mcmaster.com, in the
"products" tab do a find on "perforated metal & plastic".  I recommend
finding a material you like, then selecting the "view the catalog
page" option at the top of the browsing window.  They ship anywhere.

Brett Schneider asks in HBD 3478: 

> I have found SS sheet stock to be the most expensive part of having a false
> bottom custom made.  ...

Not knowing what your costs are for the perforation itself, I would
point you to the same link I mentioned above.  Even though the sheets
are large (36" x 40"), they are already punched.  Disregarding your
request not to say anything about material questions, I would also
point you to the polypropylene sheet (same search as above), which
is about the same price as aluminum, and is rated to 225 F.  Polypro 
certainly won't add any flavors, and it's very easy to machine (not
that aluminum isn't).

Chris Topoleski says in HBD 3478:

> ... The norprene was the more expensive of the two types of
> hosing ($3.50/foot) ...

Check out www.mcmaster.com (am I sounding repetitive?), find "tubing",
select silicone tubing.  It has a much better temperature range than 
norprene (-80 F to 400 F for translucent silicone), is available in a 
translucent tubing (easy to see what's going on), and is only ~ $1.17/ft 
for 3/8" ID ($1.22 for 1/2" ID).  It's all FDA approved.

My mistake -- I just noticed that the original hose question was from
Mike Pensinger in HBD 3475.


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:53:19 -0500
From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown at citynet.net>
Subject: Tinting glass bottles

Hello,
  As anybody tried tinting glass bottles to a dark brown color.  I have
hundreds of clear glass bottles that I would like to keep using for
homebrew, however I am wanting to improve on the quality of the beer I
produce and would like to darken the glass.  Anybody done this?  Is it
expensive?  Is it difficult?  Where would I purchase supplies?  I
thought about spray painting the bottles on the outside, however I wish
to be able to check the bottles for infections, etc before pouring them.

  Thanks for any insight
  Doug Brown

PS I do keg most of my beer, however the beer I give away, or store for
special occasions is bottled.
- -- 
		     J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
		  Software Engineer  at  ProLogic, Inc.
mailto:dougbrown at citynet.net              mailto:dbrown at prologic-inc.com
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug       http://www.prologic-inc.com


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:16:29 -0600
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: RE: Tip for Pressure Cookers

From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com>

A couple of days back, I wrote...

>> anyway. In a rare moment of lucidity, I thought about trying keg
>> lube on the seal. I shut off the burner, removed the seal from the
>> lid, dried it off, and applied a thin coating of the silicone grease.
>> Put it all back together and bingo! Works like a champ now.

>....so it probably is time for a replacement....

So you too have a Presto, Jim.  So do I and I had the problem of steam
oozing from the rubber ring seal - only this babe is just a couple months
old.  It seems to be a problem with the design, that without lubrication the
cover will pinch the ring when it rotates in locking position.  I was able
to continue after spraying the ring with a few squirts of silicone spray
(food grade) from my hardware store.  So do not be in too big a hurry to
replace the ring.  Just give it some silicone spray, or lube.

Silicone lubricants are not supposed to be harmful to rubber, I also use it
on my Honda door rubber gasket, without it the door needs about 30 pounds
pull to get it open!

Ron La Borde

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:34:44 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Stupid Brewer Tricks

     I did this last week...
  My pale ale was a little cloudy after 3 weeks, so I figured I'd run it 
through my plate filter. While filtering, the outflow hose didn't look much 
clearer than the inflow (1st clue). Filtering seemed to go a little quickly 
(2nd clue). Upon disassembling the filter to clean it, there were no filter 
pads inside!!! D'oh!!
      Gus Rappold
      Massapequa, NY
P.S. I understand you Aussies are having a bit of a violent crime surge in 
city/suburban areas now that you disarmed the law-abiding public. Seems the 
same thing is happening in the U.K... 


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:57 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: The secret to hop flavor?


Vigin poster here.  OK folks, what really is the secret to a good pale ale?
Obviously, the sweetness has to be balanced by the hoppiness, but I'm having
trouble getting the really good hop flavor.  I also noticed last night when
analyzing the taste of a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, that the
bitterness is in the back of the throat.  The bitterness of one of my latest
pale ale attempts is in the front of my mouth.  What's up with that?

I tried a FWH brew last weekend, adding an ounce of Cascade leaf to my mash.
I couldn't taste any hop flavor in the sparged wort, so I went ahead and
added another ounce of Cascade pellets 10 minutes before the end of the boil
and, for good measure, put the remaining ounce of Cascade leaf in a hop bag
and pitched it into the wort just before whirlpooling it at the end of the
boil.  I want hop flavor, dammit!  

So when is the best time to add hops for flavor?  Ten minutes before the end
of the boil?  5?  At end?  In the mash???

I've tried dry hopping and hop teas too (about an oz of Cascade leaf for 5
gallons), but the last several times I've tried those, I got a really strong
grassy taste.  The grassy taste would eventually soften, but some remained.
I definitely do not want that taste; I want spiciness.  Aren't you supposed
to get spicy hop flavor from dry-hopping/hop tea?

I've been brewing off and on for years, escalating my equipment each time I
got back into it.  A friend introduced me to RIMS recently and when we
stumbled onto a couple of sites that showed using the HLT to maintain RIMS
temperature, I decided that was the way to go.  I've done three HERIMS
batches so far and am about to get the kinks ironed out of process and
equipment.  (I call mine GERIMS for Gas/Electric RIMS, since I use gas to
boost the temperature of the HLT quickly, and recirculated
electric-element-heated water to maintain the temperature).  I really like
its so far.

John of the GE-whizRIMS


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:35:13 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Disappointed ..... with dry yeast

For those of you who use dry yeast and like it,
<page down> please.
For those of you who know the superiority of liquid yeast,
<page down> please.

I don't want to start any arguments, nor riticize any particular product,
but I am disappointed by the performance of dry yeast.


Let me start by saying that I have a LOT to learn about brewing.  My first
year was mostly extract (over 50 - 5 gallon batches).  After that I have
brewed almost 3 more years ... all grain.  <side note: I appreciate the
encouragement and advice from all who ahve helped me to refine my skills>
I pay close attention to temperature, recipe formulation, pH....sparge
time,...I am negligent with regard to water analysis..., and I am sure 
more than I am aware of....

Well....what am I getting at?  With all the hoopala here lately about 
dry yeasts...I decided to experiment and give them a try again.  {Presently
my normal routine is to use liquid yeast 3 times...now and then to make a 
starter, but my laziness causes [or allows me to justify] brewing low gravity
for the first use, higher (pwehaps darker as well) for the second, and higher
yet for the 3rd}.

Well I decided to brew an "Election Ale"....and  well...it came out sort
of like the election < I am one of those who believe that it is close NOT
because we have such HUGE choices...but precisely because there is so little
choice>  ie, it came out real bland!  Well....time will tell, and I am open
(or I would not have tried to begin with) but I can say that going into the
secondary one batch tasted....ok....(almost)...and both batches that I brewed
with dry yeast didn't drop to the FG that I had expected....

So, if you are relatively new to brewing, my recommendation is :

use liquid yeast.  Make starters (if you have the stamina) and / or save the
yeast for re-use.  

Please don't beat up on me if you use dry yeast and make real good beer....
perhaps our tastes are different...or I am doing something wrong...but I 
don't think (even if that is the case) that that is the main factor.

Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:33:03 -0500
From: "Bruce M. Mills" <millsbruce at earthlink.net>
Subject: Weyermann Pilsner Malt 

I have been using Weyermann Pilsner Malt for my Duesseldorf Alt and
Bitburger Pils. Could anyone that has used this malt share their
experiences, and / or provide some recommendations for mashing temperatures
?

I buy 55 lbs bags from a local home brew shop in Northern New England. The
Crosby & Baker web site reports a % Sol. Nitrogen Ratio of 38-42. The
Weyermann site describes this as "Highly Modified". Due to this data, I have
played around with protein / no protein rests.  Are you using a protein rest
for this malt, and if so, at what temps and how long ? What kind of results
do you obtain ? What would you recommend for my preferred styles ?

I have deep well water with a ph of about 7.5 - 8.0. So I have tried to drop
the liquor ph to about 6.0 - 6.5 using lactic acid. But I also use an Acid
Rest at ~40C for 30 minutes. Does this rest give me any additional benefits
besides a ph drop in the mash ?

I have also played with beta and alpha rest temps. Can you recommend some
temps that have worked for you ? I have a chronic problem of overhopping,
and not getting enough malt flavor for both styles. My typical mashing
schedule is 40-50-60-70-75 at 30' each when I am not playing around. Of
course , dropping the 50 for a no protein rest.

For equipment I have a HLT, Combined Mash / Lauter Tun, and Kettle all
heated with propane burners. Recirculating System. Glycol Chilled Temp
Controlled Conical Fermentor, Frig, and filtering system.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Bruce M. Mills




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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:32:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re:re:re:Tips for pressure cookers (fwd)


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

james r layton <blutick at juno.com> writes...

> Thanks, Pat, for providing the motivation to dig out that booklet. I have
> re-learned something :-)

Pleasure! Though you sent me scurrying after the instruction booklets for
my pressure canners. Could I have been a dolt all these years? Turns out:
no.  My 50+ year old small Mirro, 24+ year old small Presto and five year
old huge Maitre's ALL call for using vegetable (cooking) oil on the seal
prior to use (the Maitre's even suggests butter may be used), and a soap
and water cleaning following use. All have their original seals, to the
best of my knowledge. Hell: my mom uses one that my dad's mom used during
the depression, lubes it with corn oil now and Crisco before that. She
hasn't changed the seal on that one for as long as I've been paying
attention to things culinary.

Wonder if they changed the seal material since then? Not likely: the
Maitre's is newer than your Presto. They (Presto) likely realized that
people simply don't follow directions and wash them after use. Better to
avoid any possible condition that risk litigation. That's why lawn mowers
now have "dead man" swithes or levers, and why chainsaws warn against
juggling them while the motor is running. :-)

Sorry for the apparent misdirection, but cooking oil has worked for me
over the 10 or so years I spent in the food industry and many more years
as a civilian. And for my mother and her mother before her, my dad's
mother, etc., etc.

(It's possible, too, that there's a condition of rubber technology that
Maitre's simply is not aware of. But, based on the nature of these
beasties and the state of consumer law, I'd venture that Presto has become
overly cautious. Can't say I blame them...)

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:53:11 -700
From: "Glenn G. Williams" <fatz at xmission.com>
Subject: First beer


My first batch of home brew has me confused.  I was going to do one   
fermentation, but it didn't clear in a week, so I racked it over to a 
new carboy for secondary fermentation.  Here it is another week later,
and it's STILL hasn't cleared.  The airlock continues to bloop        
steadily every 15 seconds.  What's going on here?  Should I be        
concerned?  Should I rack it over to a 3rd carboy?                    
                                                                      
Fatz                                                                  



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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:43:47 -0400
From: kbooth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: steam

I've brewed with steam for pale lagers and it works great. I prefer it here to
avoid carmelization of the sugars via direct heating. 

I fitted a steam pressure cooker with a copper humidifier type line and use it
to raise my mash through the various temperatures until mashout.  The amount of
moisture added is minimal and the only problem is burning my self as I lean
against the copper tube as I move it thru the mash tun. 

Branding via loose steam wands is fast and painful. 

cheers....jbooth


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---