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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  HBD Servers On The MOVE! (Some Guy)
  Jethro Gump on Politics ("Rob Moline")
  The Shout Effect ("T & S Klepfer")
  In Defense of Dry Yeast ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
  RE: bottle in front of me ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Frankenstein's monster (fridgeguy)
  Re: The secret to hop flavor? (Demonick)
  Re: Tip for Pressure Cookers (Jeff Renner)
  ServoMyces (Rscholz)
  Converted keg vs SS brew pot ("Bryant, Jerry")
  Need a ring burner. (Joseph Gibbens)
  Non-Alcoholic Beer and Wine ("Michael O. Hanson")
  hop flavor in APAs (Frank Tutzauer)
  rye recipe ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Fwd: Bottling a Belgium Trippel ("Leland Heaton")
  A Grateful Brewer ("Gary J. W. Spykman")
  Some bad bottles of brew (Tom Daniels)
  Tinting Glass Bottles (B2oper8tr)


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:29:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: HBD Servers On The MOVE!


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

The HBD servers will (at least to current plans) be moving to their new
location today, Thursday, 11/16/00 at some time after 10:00am EST. Expect
an outage at this time, lasting for an indefinite time as DNS servers
catchup with the change in IP address, etc. We will do everything in our
power to minimize the amount the servers are down and/or unavailable with
this move; however, there is a lot of network between you and me, and we
have no control over how long it takes for the redirect to propagate to
your local machines. Please have patience!

Any questions or concerns should be directed to babcockp at mediaone.net
during this move. Once the move is complete and email is once again
functioning peoperly on the HBD servers, the cable modem will be shut down
and babcockp at mediaone.net will no longer exist. At that time, you should
be able to revert to using janitor@hbd.org for any questions, comments,
etc...

This should be the last message you receive in this regard until the
servers are moved! See you afterward!

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday






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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:10:20 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Jethro Gump on Politics

			Jethro Gump on Politics

>From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
>Subject: Disappointed ..... with dry yeast
><SNIP>
>I don't want to start any arguments, nor riticize any particular product,
>but I am disappointed by the performance of dry yeast.
><SNIP>
>Well....what am I getting at?  With all the hoopala here lately about
>dry yeasts...I decided to experiment and give them a try again.
><SNIP>
>So, if you are relatively new to brewing, my recommendation is :
>use liquid yeast.  Make starters (if you have the stamina) and / or save
the
>yeast for re-use.
>
>Please don't beat up on me if you use dry yeast and make real good beer....
>perhaps our tastes are different...or I am doing something wrong...but I
>don't think (even if that is the case) that that is the main factor.

     Darrell,
     Even those of use who embrace 'non-partisan' yeast sources can't
decipher your information...
     Which mean we can't help you ...if you are "doing something
wrong"...'cos you aren't telling us what you are using!...Or how...or
whatever!
     But feel free to email me, or send me your phone numbers, so I can call
for a chat....I often find I can get and send more info in a call than with
my limited use of keyboards....
	(I am pretty good  at  ellipses, though)  ;-)

ServoMyces....
	My time is limited on this one...as I am about to head to Wichita for a
Brew Conference sponsored by the Derby Club....
     Suffice to say..there will be more to say ...such as...
     Apparently there is no upper limit on zinc...and numerous studies are
in line, ongoing, and not yet completed...
     I am hoping to get a copy of the Brauwelt article myself...
     But, the brewers I have sent samples to report various levels of
activity....some of which are quite remarkable...

The Presidential Election...
     OK, I admit it! It was MY CAMPAIGN that screwed up the Presidential
Election!

     STREWTH, MATE! The Gump Campaign http://www.jethrogump.com/gumpforprez/
assumes all responsibility for ALL the hass that ensues in US politics.
Done! I said it! Get OFF my back!

     Apparently the problem arose initially, when Mavis Brewster, a Palm
Beach County voter, sought to "Vote For Gump." She punched the 'chad' out
for 'G", then punched the 'chad' out for 'U", which ended up being a
Buchanan vote...then just said, "Screw it, Gump's not on the Ballot!" and
left her vote open for discussion by three thousand lawyers!
     What's worse, her whole Bingo Club also sought to vote Gump....and
there you have it!

     Next thing you know...Jesse Jackson!

Apologetically,
Jethro Gump
http://www.jethrogump.com/gumpforprez/



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:09:37 -0600
From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas at indian-creek.net>
Subject: The Shout Effect

On the subject of wierd yeast growth on the sides of bottles of
conditioning beer, I must comment.  Several people have suggested some sort
of "Rennerian Effect", in which yeast are strangely drawn to our esteemed
craftbrewer friend, Jeff Renner.  An admirable theory, no doubt, but one
which doesn't hold up to cold, hard scientific scrutiny. I have an
alternate theory.

Meteorologists and climatologists have documented a consistent and
persistent column of hot air rising from North Queensland, Australia, the
cause of which is unknown.  For lack of a better name, they have named this
phenomenon "The Shout" (like El Nino, La Nina, Typhoon Wingding, etc. -
meteorologists like to name things).  Research is continuing to see if
there will be an effect on world weather pattern.

My theory is that this phenomenon is causing a biological disturbance of
some sort, ie. all yeast are fleeing madly from "The Shout", ending up on
the sides of bottles farthest from N Queensland.  In large parts of the US,
this means in the general direction of Jeff Renner, leading some to the
idea of the Rennerian effect.

My fear is that the mass movement of all living beings away from "The
Shout" (and maybe even Tectonic Plates, who knows?) to the Northern
Hemisphere, will unbalance the Earth, possibly causing it to suddenly and
violently rotate on its Equatorial axis.  In a worst case scenario, this
could possibly fling our Australian friends out into deep space.  Some of
them are rather light-headed, making them easier to fling.  Beware "The
Shout"!

Thomas Klepfer 



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:21:00 -0500
From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at SOLUTIA.COM>
Subject: In Defense of Dry Yeast

     I posted some information on a 10g batch of beer I had made using 
     Munton's Gold dry yeast.  I had questions about the long lag time, 
     and a "tart" taste that I thought may have been from infection.  
     Well time has been very kind to me and my beer!  I fermented in a 
     10g ball lock keg, allowed to fermentation to go to near completion 
     and then allowed pressure to build.  I placed the keg in the 
     refrigerator to crash the yeast.  Well I drew off about 4-5g for a 
     Halloween party where the beer was well received and in my opinion 
     very good, but not my best effort, and I was worried that the 
     difference was the yeast.  The left over beer was not handled very 
     well, left in a car for a day at work etc. and then brought home 
     and chilled and I am still drinking the remains of that keg.  Well 
     this beer is standing up quite well, I drink a glass every day when 
     I get home from work.  What I would like to say though is that 
     yesterday I drew a glass of beer off of the original keg that I had 
     fermented in and left in the fridge with about 5 gallons remaining 
     in it.  This beer is EXCELLENT!  I am amazed at how different the 
     beers are.  The original beer is cleaner and has a very nice subtle 
     fruitiness, fresher aroma and much more pleasant all around.  Now I 
     don't know if the difference is the treatment of the beer drawn off 
     for the party, or the long contact time with yeast in the 
     refrigerator, but I will never doubt that great beer can be made 
     from dry yeast again!  
     
     Roger Ayotte


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:19:22 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: RE: bottle in front of me

In response to my "Krupnik" reply,

>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:10:51 EST
>From: Headduck at aol.com
>Subject: bottle in front of me
>
>In a message dated 11/13/00 11:18:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
>homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:
>
><< CeolNaFidhil at aol.com  asks about Krupnik.  I have a bottle in front of
me. 
> >>>
>
>Sure beats a frontal lobotomy... Sorry couldn't help myself.
>
>JY


Ah, a familiar line sometimes attributed to W. C. Fields.  His sometime
co-star, Mae West had another line I am associated with.  "Good men are
hard to find but hard men are good to find."


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:07:17 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Frankenstein's monster

Greetings folks,

 In HBD #3476, Graham Sanders tells of a friend who would like to
resurrect a dead chest freezer by reusing its existing compressor and
adding/fabricating new evaporator and condenser coils to the inside
and outside.

 There are multiple reasons I must advise not to try this. First are
the legal and environmental consequences. Here in the states it is
illegal to purchase refrigerant without a license. The EPA has placed
a bounty on the head of anyone who vents refrigerant to the
atmosphere. It also his enacted strict refrigerant handling and system
processing procedures.

 Misuse of R12 (mostly by non-refrigeration related industry) has
caused concern over its possible role in the depletion of the earth's
ozone layer. I refuse to get into a debate over whether or not it
actually can or has - it doesn't matter. The fact remains that we have
lost the best refrigerant for use in low-medium temperature
refrigeration systems.

 Ironically, R12 replacements have resulted in a 5-15% efficiency
reduction in most applications. Since R12 was used in  almost all
domestic fridges, freezers and autos, the loss of efficiency in terms
of electrical usage and the resulting greenhouse gases produced by
utilities is astounding. Better system design and insulation has
helped the situation and today's fridges are much more efficient than
those built 20 years ago, but the loss of R12 was a major one.

 As a licensed refrigeration contractor, I represent my industry and
the laws imposed upon it. I feel it is my duty to advise folks not to
open or add refrigerant to a refrigeration system. I realize I speak
only of laws here in the US, but I suspect there are laws similar to
ours in effect in most major countries.

 A much more practical and perhaps tangible reason not to attempt to
add new evaporator and condenser coils is the fact that most domestic
refrigeration systems use a capillary tube as their restrictive
element. The cap tube will always pass a fixed amount of refrigerant
for a given pressure differential.

 This design approach results in what is known as a "critical charge"
system. This type of system must carefully balance evaporator size,
cap tube length and diameter, and refrigerant charge. Even  when the
system is properly engineered, the refrigerant must be carefully added
by weight (an ounce matters!). Too much refrigerant and liquid will
return to the compressor and destroy it. Too little and the compressor
will overheat, again causing it to fail. If the evaporator is not
properly matched to the load, it may never be possible to get the
correct amount of refrigerant to avoid either extreme.

 Be aware too that a refrigeration compressor in a system open to the
atmosphere for more than a day or two (maybe less) may not be
salvageable since the oil in the system is hygroscopic and will
quickly take on enough moisture to ruin the compressor. The situation
will be worse when the system has run with a leak and has drawn water
into it (the evaporator pressure on most freezers is below
atmospheric).

 A better approach to resurrecting the freezer might be to use a dorm
or apartment fridge as the cooling unit and attach it to the freezer
cabinet.

Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net


- --
Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com
(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:36:50 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: The secret to hop flavor?

From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
> ...
> I want hop flavor, dammit! ...
> So when is the best time to add hops for flavor? ...
> I've tried dry hopping and hop teas too ...
> ...

I'm certainly not telling you something you do not know. 

There are 3 commonly accepted "types" of hop flavor contribution,
bitterness, flavor, and aroma.  These are contributed by the hops in
proportion to the time they are boiled in the wort.  The longer you boil
(in general) the more bitterness you extract and the more aroma you drive
off.

That's why many pale ales utilize 3 hop additions, bittering, flavor, and
aroma, boiled for (approximately) 60, 30, and 15 minutes.  To increase
aroma you can put off the last addition.  I commonly use a 5 minute boil
time and a steep while chilling for my aroma hops.  In my Tettbanger
recipe, a simple pale ale with a boat load of home grown tettnanger, I use
2 ounces boiled for 5 minutes and allowed to steep while chilling.  The
moral is that if you can't seem to get enough of the hop character you
seek, use more hops!

I've used hop teas made by just boiling hops in water, and they work
fairly well, since you can boil them covered and thereby preserve
some of the aroma from being driven of in the boil.  Again, don't be
timid with the amount of hops used. 

No matter how much hop aroma you get into the wort, some of it will be
scrubbed out by the fermentation.  You can replace this loss, by using
a hop tea added to the green beer at the time of bottling and/or kegging.

I've even heard of people stuffing a hop cone into each bottle, then
filling and sealing.  If anyone reading this has tried it, please post
your results.  You can also dry hop in a keg.  My experience with dry
hopping has NOT been particularly successful.

In my last batch, this past weekend, a Fuller's ESB clone attempt, I used a
hopback for the first time.  Someone posted a URL for building a hopback
from a mason jar, and I used that as a guide.  Whoever that was - Thank
you.  It worked VERY well.  DO NOT forget the copper scrubby to protect the
outflow from the hopback.  I found that an ounce of hops in a 1 quart jar
is too much.  Try 1/2-3/4 ounce.

In my system the hot wort from the kettle is picked up by a gooseneck
stainless pickup tube, routed through the hopback, then onto the
counter-flow chiller and into the fermenter.  The aroma from the East Kent
Goldings was apparent.  Cooling the wort in the CFC "locks in" the aroma
extracted in the hopback.  My only concern is that some of this aroma is
scrubbed out by the fermentation.  Obviously, the hopback results are 
not in yet.  I'll offer a followup in a few weeks.  

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com

FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or 
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't 
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.




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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:08:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Tip for Pressure Cookers

>Just give it some silicone spray, or lube.

Or water!  I have a 30 year old pressure cooker with the original 
rubber gasket.  it's hard to close and leaks steam if I put it in 
dry, but works like a champ wet.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:01:51 EST
From: Rscholz at aol.com
Subject: ServoMyces

All,

Wandering the White Labs Web site the other day,
I came across an item that stated that they will soon be distributing 
&#8220;ServoMyces&#8221; in homebrewer and
commercial quantities. Check out the site 

http://www.yeastbank.com/np/newproducts3rd2000.htm

Check out the bottom of the page. Hope this helps.

Richard L Scholz
Brooklyn, NY




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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:23:34 -0500
From: "Bryant, Jerry" <BryantJ at nabisco.com>
Subject: Converted keg vs SS brew pot

I am in the market for a new large brew pot and was hoping to get some
feedback from the group on its thoughts of a 15 gallon SS brew pot or going
with a converted keg.  I currently am using a outdoor cooker, but would like
to move to a three tier system in the future.  Any thoughts are appreciated.


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:28:23 -0600
From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu>
Subject: Need a ring burner.

I'm looking for a single ring burner in the 100,000 btu range for a 
brewing kettle.  The kettle is bottom draining in the center, so I will 
need a burner large enough to pass a shielded drain pipe down its center.
hopefully this ascii drawing will make it clear.

	K	K
	K-------K
	K	K
	K	K
	K	K
	KKKKKKKKK
	  B D B-----p
	    D    ppppppp
	    D    p     p
		 p     p
		 p     p
		 ppppppp

I'm still looking for a good source for the burner.  Can anyone recommend 
a burner supplier?  Thanks.


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:30:16 -0600
From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson at winternet.com>
Subject: Non-Alcoholic Beer and Wine

Has anybody on these lists made non-alcoholic beer or wine?  If so, how did
you go about doing it?  Are there any kids available for making
non-alcoholic beer and wine?  Private e-mail is fine.

Thanks in Advance,


Mike Hanson



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:42:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: hop flavor in APAs


John Peed asks about achieving hop flavor:

>OK folks, what really is the secret to a good pale ale? Obviously,
>the sweetness has to be balanced by the hoppiness, but I'm having
>trouble getting the really good hop flavor.
> ...
>I want hop flavor, dammit! So when is the best time to add hops for
>flavor?  Ten minutes before the end of the boil?  5?  At end?  In the
>mash???

Let me tell you what works great for me in my American Pale Ales:  Use
*lots* of hops at various times towards the end of the boil.

I dry hopped for years and liked it fine.  If you overdo a Cascade dry
hop you can get that grassy flavor that you noticed, but dry hopping
is great for many beers, APAs included.  And yet, I DO NOT DRY HOP MY
SIERRA NEVADA STYLE PALE ALES!  Many, many years ago, an HBD poster
who took an SN tour mentioned how surpised he was at the quantity of
late addition hops used in SNPA.  At the time, I believe SN also used
a hop back (and now I believe that they don't), but what I picked up
from the post was to try massive amounts of late hops.

I use pellets exclusively, and bitter with Perle, but I'll use around
three to three and a half ounces of Cascades throughout the last part
of the boil.  An ounce goes in at one minute to go, and a half ounce
to an ounce goes in at 5 minutes.  I'll also add hops at, say, 10
minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes and 30 minutes to go.  Because alpha
acids vary from batch to batch, the early Cascade additions will be
timed and sized to hit my IBU levels, but the rest is for flavor.

I'm at work and so don't have specific times/amounts available (maybe
I'll post them tomorrow), but it varies from batch to batch anyway,
depending on my mood and what kind of open bags I've got lying around.
The key is to use a lot and to add them *throughout* the last twenty
minutes of the boil.  The result is a very deep, rich Cascade
flavor/aroma.  I do not dry hop; I do not use a hop back.

The only problem is that the beer is so good I can't keep enough on
hand to satisfy SWMBO (also known as SWMBBF).

 --frank



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:00:23 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: rye recipe 

I thought I might offer out my rye amber ale recipe for the collective.  It
placed second in the Exp./Specialty category at the CMI Octobresbest
competition in mid_oct 2000 with a 39.5 and placed third in the same
category at the Western Mass. Homebrew Comp also in mid-oct 2000 with a 32.

Comments were "to primarily up the rye content" for more rye flavor. also
WMHC judge said "this beer tastes as classic as a rye beer as I've ever had"
Its currently at about 15%.  Color is golden/amber and aroma is light-floral
with slight rye.  taste is fairly dry but with balanced malt presence

"Fall Rye Ale" brewed August 20, 2000

Here it goes:
65.4weight% Muntons 2row pale
15.4% "german" munich (could be durst or weyermanns - don't have it written)
15.4% flaked rye
3.8% english 60L crystal

OG = 1.061	FG = 1.016
primary 1 wk at 65F, secondary 1 wk at 65F

Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley twice scaled up from inflated smack pack

For me the grains end up totalling about 13 lbs giving me efficiency of
about 63%.

I batch sparge and short cut the second runnings which gives this
efificiency.

mash temp = 156degF, mash ratio = 1.38 qt/lb, sparge ratio = 0.62 qts/lb

2 tsp. gypsums added to boil. normal Albany, NY water is fairly soft

Hops:
2 oz willamette (5%AA) for 60 minutes
0.5 oz willamette at 15 min
1.5 oz willamette at 1 min to yield ~40IBU total via Tinseth

60 minute total boil from initial volume of 5.2 gallons to about
4-4.5gallons, make up to 5 gallon upon transfer to primary after cooling
also added pinch irish moss at 15 minutes remaining, cooled with immersion
chiller, and kegged at about 12 psi for about 5 weeks before counterpressure
bottled for competition

cold break and hop matter filtered using strainer upon transfer to primary
from boiling kettle


Hope this might inspire you to try out brewing a nice autumn rye ale.

Enjoy,
Pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:49:14 PST
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Bottling a Belgium Trippel

My respects to collective,

I brewed my first Belgium Trippel about 5 weeks ago.  It spent 2 weeks in 
the primary, and 2 1/2 in the secondary.  Since I am still in my rookie year 
of brewing (although I am going to hit my 6 month anniversary, and I am 
getting ready to bottle, I have some questions about my little Belgium.

I know that some breweries use a different yeast strain to bottle condition 
and carbonation.  I would assume that this does not affect the flavor 
profile very much, but I am looking for some reassurance.  I am asking this 
because I did not save any yeast from when I pictched my Trappist Ale, and I 
happen to have some dry Nottingham yeast lying around.

Also, not to restart the dreaded debate on the poor quality of liquid yeast, 
but I have never had a White Labs Liquid Yeast take more than 22 hours to 
start without a starter, and with a starter was about 8 hours.  But then 
again sometimes I get my yeast from San Diego directly, I do not know the 
difference in shipping.  But one time I got the yeast from morebeer.com (no 
affiliations just a very satisfied customer), in suspension and very warm.  
And was informed that the yeast would still be viable.  Which turned out to 
be my 8-hour lag.

Leland

PS.  What is the official spelling of Trippel.  I have seen it spelled about 
one-hundred and fifty different ways.



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:33:29 -0400
From: "Gary J. W. Spykman" <spykman at monad.net>
Subject: A Grateful Brewer

Hi everybody,

I've been receiving the Homebrew Digest for a year now and decided it's
time to say a big THANKS to all of you.

I started brewing at the same time that I started receiving the Digest.
I did two extract batches and decided that wasn't the way for me.

I love baking and don't bake from packaged mixes because I love the
satisfaction I get from controlling the ingredients, the process, and the
outcome. Well, brewing from extract felt like baking a cake from a mix.
Sure it tasted OK, but it just didn't feel very satisfying to me, and I
thought that I could do better.

Well thanks mainly to all the great info from you folks I learned how to
do all-grain brewing. Sure, I read a few books and searched out some
other internet sources, but this group deserves most of the credit for
my brewing education.

I spent some time designing and building my system and did my first
all-grian batch, an ESB, last February. Since then I've done seven more
batches, all ales: two more ESBs, a Guinness clone, an Oatmeal Stout, a
Witbier, a Belgian Strong Ale, and an English Pale Ale. All have turned
out wonderfully.

Without this group there is no way that I could have progressed as far as
I have in so short a time. From the wise to the wise-assed it's all been
helpful. Even the sometimes heated debates have been beneficial. Seeing
my "teachers" disagree has shown me once again that there isn't always
a single correct answer.

I may be the "Master Brewer" in my own brewery, but on this forum I am
an apprentice, keeping my eyes and ears open, learning all the time.

Thanks one and all,

Gary Spykman,
Keene, New Hampshire

(Hey, I was born and and raised in Grand Rapids Michigan, that's not too
far from the center of the homebrewing universe. Maybe I was destined
to become a brewer.)














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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:14:59 -0500
From: Tom Daniels <daniels at cerias.purdue.edu>
Subject: Some bad bottles of brew

Made an batch of Red Zeppelin from the Homebrewer's Bible book and
it's been bottled for a few weeks.  I generally bottle half a batch in 
22oz bottles and the other half in 12 oz bottles. Every early sign said
this was gonna be Brewpub quality or better. Even the wife said so.

Well, the 12 oz bottles were good (most of which have been drank),
but some of the 22oz'ers are really bad. Odor and taste of phenols, 
I think.  The off taste is somewhere between really smoky and 
medicine.  So, I'm guessing bad bottle sanitization???
The off taste seems to be kind of hit and miss between bottles.

The only weird thing that I did was clean with bleach (as normal), but 
instead of running them through the dishwasher, I rinsed with Iodophor
solution.  

Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.



- -- 
Tom Daniels

I guess we're all gonna be what we're gonna be,
So what do you with good old boys like me?
                                    -----Don Williams



- -- 
Tom Daniels

I guess we're all gonna be what we're gonna be,
So what do you with good old boys like me?
                                    -----Don Williams




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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:13:26 EST
From: B2oper8tr at aol.com
Subject: Tinting Glass Bottles

>As anybody tried tinting glass bottles to a dark brown color.  I have
>hundreds of clear glass bottles that I would like to keep using for
>home-brew, however I am wanting to improve on the quality of the beer I
>produce and would like to darken the glass.  Anybody done this?  Is it
>expensive?  Is it difficult?  Where would I purchase supplies?  I
>thought about spray painting the bottles on the outside, however I wish
>to be able to check the bottles for infections, etc., before pouring them.)


Dear Doug and List:
    I am a long time list-lurker, ALSO I am a Glassblower, and Homebrewer. I 
Know of No way to safely tint glass bottles which will contain food. Most 
colored glass is Colored at the time it is melted, trapping the metal oxides 
(used for color) within the glass. Therefore, rendering it safe for food use. 
Any tint you apply to the inside of the bottle will affect the beer, making 
poison of it. I have very little experience with dyes for glass, However, I 
do know that any permanent color will have to be fired on, (kilned) to the 
maturing temp of the dye or stain, usually around 1100 degrees f.  Even then, 
with regular handling it will wear off. I hope this helps. 

Howard Fulmer
Fulmer Glass Arts (and Brewery)
Wyoming, PA


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