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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Co2 tank pressures ("Scott")
  Temperature controllers and fridges ("Peter Fitzsimons")
  Coffee (Petr Otahal)
  barley flour (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Speaking for others (John Adsit)
  SWMBO (Beaverplt)
  re: secondary in corny keg (PVanslyke)
  Here is to the janitors.  GREAT JOB ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Drinking Beer In Space ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Culturing Brettanomyces lambicus ("Fred L. Johnson")
  dry-hop haze/yet another Pivo/Hop Teas/Lo_Grav beers/Logical ("Stephen Alexander")
  Green Bullet ("Keith Menefy")


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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:19:51 -0800
From: "Scott" <Windsurf at bossig.com>
Subject: Co2 tank pressures

I have just received a 10 lb tank exchange from the welding company.
However, the tank pressure read 500 lbs.  Is this really a full tank?  I
know the tank pressure is not exact, and varies according to standard
temperature and barometric pressure.  However, I deal with O2 e-cylinders
all the time, and a new tank usually registers 2000 psi.  Did they give me a
low tank?  Our outside temperature is near freezing now, if this helps.



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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:25:20 +1030
From: "Peter Fitzsimons" <peterf at senet.com.au>
Subject: Temperature controllers and fridges

This question is probably best answered by our friendly fridgeguy.

If I was to build a temperature controller for my fridge, what is the
minimum time that I should make the fridge run for (even if I only need the
temperature to drop a small amount)

Thanks

Peter



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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:13:57 +1100
From: Petr Otahal <potahal at utas.edu.au>
Subject: Coffee

All

I posted earlier about a stuck stout (thanks again for the replies).
When I bottled it I added some coffee to give it a roastier character,
~110g ground coffee beans (the darkest roast I could find) made up with
about 900mL of water in a drip filter coffee maker.  I calculated this
amount to get about the equivalent of 1tsp of coffee beans to each longneck
(750mL) bottle.  

I followed Al Korzonas' instructions and filtered the coffee several times
through new filter papers to try to remove the oils, and ended up with
about a 750mL of very strong coffee which I bottled hot and let cool in the
bottle.  I added the coffee to the cooled priming solution just prior to
bottling.

Well its been just less than a week in bottle and already it tastes bloody
fantastic! The coffee has given the beer a dryer roastier character, and a
wonderful aroma without destroying the head.  Definitely one to do again.

Unfortunately I wasn't being overly scientific and didn't bottle any of the
beer without the coffee, but who cares when this one turned out so great.

Cheers
Pete




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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:06:58 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>
Subject: barley flour

Woohhooo HBD is back online.

Heres something that Graham Sanders has not even had experience with.

HAs anyone had any experience with Barley Flour. Found some in a 
healthfood store and wondered about it.

Interested to hear the feedback.

Scotty.

p.s. just racked a lovey pale ale, boston-ish ale and belgium
smoked beer from my scrubbed to buggary plastic fermenters i have
had for 5 years now! And so to keep with tradition I took to them
with extra strong bleach and gave them another "what for" with
the scouring pad after i bottled. Might even give them another
go tonight just for the hell of it...scratch goes the scourer
scratch scratch scratch!



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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:21:09 -0700
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Speaking for others

In the last HBD, I apologized for the anatagonistic response someone
sent to Sean's tongue-in-cheek posting.  I dared to speak for the group,
assuming that people would have no problem with that.  I have been told
in rather blunt fashion that I should not have done so.  I am therefore
going to apologize for speaking for those of you who appreciated the
antagonistic reponse.  I should have let you speak for yourself.

- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us




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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:12:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: SWMBO

Ayesha is She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, a 2,000-year-old
queen who rules a 
fabled
lost city deep in
a maze of African caverns. She has the occult wisdom
of Isis, the 
eternal
youth and beauty of
Aphrodite, and the violent appetite of a lamia. Like
A. Conan Doyle's 
Lost
World, She is one of
those magnificent Victorian yarns about an expedition
to a far-off 
locale
shadowed by magic,
mystery, and death.

My God!!! This is my wife!



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/


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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:17:16 EST
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: re: secondary in corny keg

Good morning,

    I have done my secondary in corny kegs for some time. I have one keg with 
a dip tube that was shortened by an inch or so. For the fermentation lock I 
used a short piece of plastic tubing that fit over the threaded end when the 
"gas in valve" has been removed. This short piece of tubing (just a couple 
inches) in turn is fitted with a standard fermentation lock. After a period 
of time judged as secondary fermentation is done - it's getting pretty 
thirsty out! - the beer can be transfered under co2 preasure to another corny 
for carbination and serving.
    By charging an empty tank with 5 lbs. Then charging the full tank with 
the same. Then with co2 still hooked to the full tank attach a connector to 
the beer out on the full tank to the beer out on the empty tank. Now stick 
something into the poppet on the gas in on the empty tank. As the gas comes 
out of the empty tank, the beer is forced in. The shortened dip tube in the 
secondary helps keep the yeast behind.

Cheers,
Paul VanSlyke >> brewin' and relaxin' in Deposit, NY


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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 10:58:24 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Here is to the janitors.  GREAT JOB

Unbelievable.  Back up already.  There must be at least 200 companies out
there that want (and need) guys like you for Sys Admin.

I subscribe to another service that is supposed to send me things daily. 
The email stopped October 20.  I finally got to someone and he said the
found the problem on November 15.  The emails still have not resumed.  This
is a "professional" service that charges advertisers (a lot more than
Northern Brewer pays--Thanks Northern).

Great Job.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:41:04 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Drinking Beer In Space

Steve Alexander lists me as the master of "content free" posts. Now I know
Steve well and I know he really doesn't mean this.

What Steve really means to say is that I don't provide enough scientific
input to hold his interest. Does anyone?

Steve is a rocket scientist who likes to make a bit of beer (and wine and
even a bit of cheese) all of which I presume he takes on his scientific
picnics deep into the cosmos.

I believe Steve even makes his own rocket fuel. What concerns me is that I
suspect he may be confusing making beer with making rocket fuel.

I don't believe making top quality beer is at all difficult. It certainly
takes some skill and attention to detail, but well within the means of any
dedicated brewer. And it doesn't have to be overly scientific.

You only have to look at the impact my rice lager (and now my peach wheat
beer) has had on the inhabitants of the Southern Highlands of New South
Wales.

They all look pie eyed, pickled and happy!

I wouldn't dare to imagine what the conversation is about when Steve is
knocking back a few rounds of his rocket fuel with his mates? You do have
mates Steve?

But I have to love the fellow. When I recently reported on the good Doc's
ill health, Steve was one of the first to enquire
"Is he going to make it through Phil"?

I must admit my "content free" posts have not been too frequent of late.
Perhaps this one will appease Steve, at least for the time being.

I have been busy of late fighting with my Croatian neighbour over the back
fence who is building a house not to my liking. The last I heard, the courts
were ruling that he demolish the whole thing.  I forgot to tell him prior to
buying his land, you don't build houses next to the Baron without prior
consent. When this is all over, I might ask him in to try a rice lager or
two. Failing that, he might like a rocket ride deep into space with Steve,
with only half the required fuel on board!

Happy Drinking
Cheers
Phil






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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:57:58 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Culturing Brettanomyces lambicus

This is my first attempt at using Brettanomyces lambicus. I picked up a
slant from BrewTek and started it in about 10ml of 1.040 wort.  I stepped it
up to about 100 ml after it showed some signs of life.  It has taken about 6
days now and only now am I convinced that it is actually growing and
fermenting. 

I read in Charlie P's "The Home Brewer's Companion" that Brett will be
better of with 0.5 Calcium carbonate in the wort since it produces a lot of
acid.  In fact, Papazian says that the acid it produces can kill the yeast
itself.  I can't get 5 g of Calcium carbonate to go into solution in 1 liter
of wort even with heating.  I suppose it would eventually go into solution
if the presence of acid-producing yeast.

Anyone have any suggestions for the best way to culture this beast?  Or
should I pitch the yeast into this wort with the undissolved calcium
carbonate?
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:50:50 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: dry-hop haze/yet another Pivo/Hop Teas/Lo_Grav beers/Logical

Nit - gelatin *is* protein. not a protein analog.
==

The demonic Dom Venezia asks ...

>As regards hop teas, does anyone have any idea of the optimal water
>treatment for a hop-tea?  [...]
>Do any of the hop aroma components
>extract better at high or low pH?

I don't know from optimal, but many of the less desirable hop components are
more soluble at higher pH (beta acids, phenolics, lupulones, see M&BS
v2...).  I've made hop teas from tap water (pH 7.3) and absolutely HATED the
result - very grassy, weedy and inelegant.  I'd acidify the water to boil pH
(<5.3) or even lower before making a tea.  I think this is absolutely
necessary, not a 'should do' sort of thing.  I'm not a big fan of hop teas,
tho' I'd use them to correct a problem beer.

Most excellent post from Chris Swersey on the matter.

==
Jeffry D Luck writes .... on Lo_grav brewing ...

>for a low-grav  batch,
>cut your main grain bill (2-row, 6-row, etc) in half, and increase the
>specialty grains to make up for the lost flavor and body.  Maybe add a
>lb of Cara Vienna just to be sure.

I agree in principle, but I have a different approach ...

My person preferences and practices in brewing had been toward dropping SG
for quite a while when I attended an AABG gathering at Jeff'+Nancy R's home
last year.  Jeff had a nice mild on tap that I recall at about 8P more or
less.  Tho' not inspiring in itself and having a difficult time standing up
against the higher grav and bigger flavored beers that were flowing that
evening - still the combination of modest carbonation and balanced hops,
malt and crystal flavors left an impression - and a challenge.

I think a lot of HBers who post here are still living in the 15P+ world  and
don't realized that in general 12-13P be a VERY comfortable gravity for most
beers, and some absolutely great beers don't break 9P.   I know that higher
grav beers have an edge in competition (they can easily carry more flavor)
but when it comes to having a 2nd or 3rd beer on a weekend evening from the
tap in the basement fridge 8P to 10P is a really winning gravity.

Well I said it wasn't an inspiring mild, but perhaps I'm mistaken - I've
been making 8P-9P milds regularly ever since.  It's a real challenge to make
a beer with good flavor and body at <9P and I think that taking up this
challenge has made me a better brewer.  The principles are constant.

a/ Sweetness, bitterness and maltiness *must* be balanced.. Where
  that balance lies depends on style but ...
  Crystal, caramel, candi (and not mashing temps) add sweetness.
  Early Hop additions (and  dark roast malts) add bitterness.
  Maltiness is added by all malts especially those with Maillard
      products.  Melanoidin, Munich, Vienna, Dark Crystal.
      in that order, tho light crystal, vienna and pale too.  Probably a
      primary reason why HBDers seek additional maltiness is they've
      over-spec'ed the crystal and hops so can't taste the malt.
b/ Body is principally due to protein, but also to unfermentable dextrins
  and the two contributions are definitely distinguishable.
   Protein adds the texture of a malted milk, while dextrins add a
   syrupy almost starchy texture (*NOT* sweetness).
c/ Alcohol is necessary for that evanescent buzz (recall I'm a card
  carrying member of DAMM (Drunks Against Mad Mothers)) ,
  but in excess it limits our beer drinking & enjoying capacity, creates
  the probability of bitter fusels (which I *hate*) and requires us to make
  the trek toward bed just as the beer-goggles have made
  all the women, especially SWMBO, exquisitely beautiful.

Re Jeffry's comments - I'd scale back the crystal proportional with
the SG.  Crystal adds immense, often gross sweetness.  The hop bitterness
and the malt flavor *MUST* balance this sweetness and this is impossible; if
you use the same crystal as a 12+P ale and shoot for 8P then you'll need to
boost the IBUs past any reasonable level and the malt will be MIA.  If you
need more maltiness (often welcome) the use the APA trick of replacing
crystal with Munich or melanoidin malt.   Not traditional in a mild, but not
so sweet, and bigger maltiness than crystal or cara-X.

A variation which is un-mild-like but which I regularly practice is adding
raw barley or wheat and then performing a modest protein rest.  This really
adds to the mouth-feel & body w/o unbalancing the beer w/ sweet caramels of
heavy dextrins (like cara-vienna would).

As for the bone-dryness - consider adding a *modest* amount of sugar to the
wort and do account for gravity - use this to balance the crystal malt.
A 1-2 P addition of cane sugar (0.4#-0.9# /5g) and a good yeast
starter should insure 80+% attenuation and that is often key to the dryness.
Add crystal at 5% of grist levels like the Brits do, and as Kunze suggests
(via Narziss)  not at 20%+ level like some APA advocates and HBD boneheads

- --
Someone a week+ ago asked about sparging regimes for a Lo-grav brew.

You should be prepared use  3.5 to 3.8 quarts of water per pound of grist
(7-7.6 L/kg) including mash + sparge water for any beer.  If you add 1.5
qt/Lb in the mash then have on hand about 2.3-qt/lb of sparge water.  My
personal preferences and measures tend to stop the sparge at 3.5-3.7 qt/lb
(mash+sparge).  If you need to decrease the SG further then by all means add
treated water to the boiler to dilute as needed.  If you need higher SG then
you must decrease the sparge.  *NEVER* oversparge w/ greater than 4qt/lb of
total water.

One other thing about Lo_grav beers - they ferment-out and clear faster than
you would expect - which is always a plus as it adds to freshness.

==
R.C.AYOTTE says ...

>   What I would like to add is [...], one has to think about how
>   consistent one's brewing is.

Good comment Roger.  I like to think my methods produce pretty consistant
results but I know that different handling (e.g. keg vs bottle condition)
leads to shocking differences.  Time alone is a factor that is hard to
miss - My beers vary from week 4 to week 16 in ways unimaginable. So even if
you make identical wort - HB isn't a static product.  Stability over time
and handling would be nice - but only if it was also optimal flavor.

 -S





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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:43:16 +1300
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Green Bullet

Following my recent post on New Zealand green bullet hops I came across this
web site.
http://www.nzhops.co.nz/index.htm
For more information on NZ hops than you will ever need it is worth a visit.

Cheers
Keith
New Zealand



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