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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  puzzling brew problem.....suggestions needed (John Greene)
  coffee stouts (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Source for Ale (John Mellby)
  Source for Ale (John Mellby)
  Mash out (Steven R Koch)
  MacStack (Alan Duester)
  minneapolis brewpub (Alan Duester)
  unmashed malt (Pete Soper)
  beer bottles... (Bernie Santos)


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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 09:06:50 PST
From: greene at venice.sedd.trw.com (John Greene)
Subject: puzzling brew problem.....suggestions needed

I have been having a problem lately that I would appreciate some suggestions
on what to try to correct it.  It's cloudy beer.  Before everyone starts 
saying to be more careful with sanitizing let me explain what the process is
that I go through.  

First of all, I never used to have much of a problem with cloudy beer until
one batch and it hasn't changed since.  I thought that my original primary 
fermenter was perhaps becoming too scratch from use and wasn't sanitizing well
so I bought a new one.  To eliminate the possibility of the siphoning being
the source of the problem, I bought a siphonless fermenter from Williams 
Brewing.  Still have cloudy beer.  

I soak the entire fermenter and all components associated with it (vapor lock,
valve, lid, etc.) for one to two hours before adding the wort.  I start soaking
after the wort starts boiling and by the time it cools a couple of hours has
elapsed.  

I use gypsum in the water and irish moss during the boil as recommended by
Williams.

I have used a priming tank to bottle and have also kegged the beer directly
from the fermenter and get the same results.  I boil the sugar and bottle
caps if used.  I am fairly certain that whatever is going wrong is happening
before bottling.

I have recently gone as far as to sanitize the sink, counter top, and anything
else other than the floor of the kitchen.  

I used liquid yeast and have tried using it straight from the package and also
by using a starter.  With a starter I get a good head of foam in 6-12 hours,
with just the packet it take ~1.5 days.

The beer doesn't seem to have any sour or 'bad' taste to it.  It is just 
cloudy.  I am sure that using some gelatin would clear things up but I don't 
know why it won't clear on its own.

I have a friend that has almost identical equipment and uses an even less
stringent procedure and gets clear beer every time.

Any suggestions??  Or do I just have to start using gelatin all the time and
put up with a less solid sediment in the bottom?

______________________________________________________________________________
John E. Greene    "People are just like frankfurters....You have to decide
                   if you're going to be a hot dog or just another wiener" DLR
TRW Systems Engineering and Development Division
ARPA: greene at venice.sedd.TRW.COM  USENET: ..trwrb!venice!greene

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 13:25:21 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: coffee stouts

Does anybody have experience using coffee as an adjunct in stouts?
I'm particularly interested in knowing what types of coffee work
well, and what types to avoid.  Also how much is the "right" amount
for a single batch?  Is the coffee flavor predominant, or is it more
of an aftertaste?  Would the coffee flavor be considered a flaw in
a competition? Does the coffee affect the fermentation (i.e., does
it bother the yeast?)

I've started experimenting with coffees, but so far, have only a
stout and a batch of brown ale that I've tried it in.  In the brown
ale I clearly overdid the coffee and its flavor is too assertive. Maybe
I should try a weaker blend?  Any ideas for future batches would
be greatly appreciated.

The stout turned out pretty tasty and the coffee flavor seems to
come through more in the aftertaste with the predominant flavor
being the dark malts.  This is basically what I did:

Black Cat Stout #1
================
6.6# Munton & Fison dark extract syrup
1 # M&F dry dark extract
1/2# black patent malt
3/4# crystal malt
1/2# roasted barley
1/2 cup dark molasses
3/4 oz. Willamette hops
3/4 oz. Cascades hops
1 tsp. vanilla
1/2 cup French-roasted coffee beans
2 packs Edme ale yeast

Steeped specialty grains.  Boiled malts, hops, & vanilla 60 mins.
Fine ground coffee beans and made a pot of coffee. Put wort,
coffee, & cold water in primary to make 5 gallons. Pitched at 78
degrees.
O.G. - 1.069
F.G. - 1.028
Racked to secondary after 3 days. Fermented 23 days, krausened 
with about 1 pint of freshly-made James Brown Ale (no coffee in
that batch) and bottled.

Any ideas on what I should do differently next time, or what
might improve this stout?


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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 12:33:49 CST
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby)
Subject: Source for Ale

Perhaps the wise gentles on this this can help.  Some new importing
company has again begun importing some foreign beer which has been (for
several years) unavailable in this country.  Some of the beers include
Tudor Pale Ale (Geo Gale), HSB Bitter (ditto), Old Thumper (Ringwood),
and maybe even Bishop's Tipple (?).

While this hasn't yet appeared in Texas, I would like to contact the
importer and see if then can be convinced to start sending stuff here.

Has anyone out there seen any of these beers?  Can you look on the label
and see what company imports them?  Any idea what city the importer is in?
(Its too much to hope for, but how about an address or phone number?)

Thanks for the help!

John R. Mellby
jmellby at ngstl1.ti.com
(214)517-5370 (H) (214)343-7585 (w)

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 12:33:49 CST
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby)
Subject: Source for Ale

Perhaps the wise gentles on this this can help.  Some new importing
company has again begun importing some foreign beer which has been (for
several years) unavailable in this country.  Some of the beers include
Tudor Pale Ale (Geo Gale), HSB Bitter (ditto), Old Thumper (Ringwood),
and maybe even Bishop's Tipple (?).

While this hasn't yet appeared in Texas, I would like to contact the
importer and see if then can be convinced to start sending stuff here.

Has anyone out there seen any of these beers?  Can you look on the label
and see what company imports them?  Any idea what city the importer is in?
(Its too much to hope for, but how about an address or phone number?)

Thanks for the help!

John R. Mellby
jmellby at ngstl1.ti.com
(214)517-5370 (H) (214)343-7585 (w)

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 15:53:18 EST
From: koch at reggae.crd.ge.com (Steven R Koch)
Subject: Mash out

I did my first (partial) mash last night, following the recipe for "Modern
Porter" in Dave Miller's book.  I mashed about 3 lbs of 2-row lager malt,
with a protein rest at ~130F for 30 minutes, and the starch conversion rest
at ~150F for an hour.  Unfortunately, in all the excitement, I forgot to do
the "mash out" (i.e. raising the temperature at the end of starch
conversion to 168F to stop enzyme activity), and went directly to sparging.
Are there going to be any adverse effects on the final product?

The wort had a higher S.G. than predicted (1.052 instead of 1.044), which
was probably due to less than accurate measurement of the amount of grain
and DME; other than that, all seemed normal.

Steven R. Koch     |   kochsr at crd.GE.COM
GE Corporate R&D   |   
Schenectady, NY    |   (518) 387-5217

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 18:51:09 EST
From: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester)
Subject: MacStack

>If you want me to mail the stack to you, it is possible, but you need
>a copy of both the BinHex and StuffIt programs to decode it. If you
>can't handle that type of file, send me mail and we'll work out other
>arrangements.
>Prost!
>- --Mark Stevens

Mark - You don't need both programs. Stuffit (version 1.5.1 anyway) has a
Decode binhexed file option in one of the menus. I used this and it
worked fine. It came to me with added Line Feeds, so if folks are having
problemswith their UnBinHex routines, they might want to try using
McSink or one of the many other utilities or DA's to strip linefeeds,
and try again. Stuffit didn't even notice them. Thanx again!

========================================================================
Al Duester, Ocean Engineer, MS S201   #  SPAN: 6308::capnal 
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution  #  INTERNET: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu
Woods Hole, MA  02543                 #  GEnie:  A.DUESTER
(508) 548-1400 x2474 
(508) 457-2000 auto-receptionist for touch tone phones
========================================================================

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 19:21:37 EST
From: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester)
Subject: minneapolis brewpub

Recent posting by Tony Klein re. St. Paul reminded me:

I haven't seen notice of the Jax Brewery in "Riverfront Place"??? in
Minneapolis in any of the brewpub compendiums. I hope it is still there!
(does anyone know?) I was there last Easter weekend, so my memory of the
brews is faded but positive. Lots of wood, polished brass & ferns, prices
pretty reasonable. However, they have the most INCREDIBLE onion rings on
the planet! Something not to be taken lightly, might I add, as it's
important to balance alcohol consumption with starches and grease... :>)

========================================================================
Al Duester, Ocean Engineer, MS S201   #  SPAN: 6308::capnal 
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution  #  INTERNET: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu
Woods Hole, MA  02543                 #  GEnie:  A.DUESTER
(508) 548-1400 x2474 
(508) 457-2000 auto-receptionist for touch tone phones
========================================================================

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 15:45:21 EST
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: unmashed malt

  In Digest #348 Wayne Allen describes a recipe that calls for 
1/2 lb of toasted malt. Is this really unmashed lager or pale malt?
If so, surely this puts raw starch and complex proteins into the
final beer, creating the potential for permanent haze, infection
by starch gobbling creatures, etc? Or does 1/2 lb not make that 
much difference? This is the second time in a month I've heard
of this being done with extract batches. The other case (club member's)
was very hazy. Could you let us know how your version works
out Wayne (that is, if I haven't already talked you out of putting
raw starch into your homebrew)?

- --Pete Soper

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 90 18:31:10 PST
From: santos at EBay.Sun.COM (Bernie Santos)
Subject: beer bottles...


Hi All; I enjoy this alias but don't have time to read it and
many of the articles are way over my head. I have asked to be 
removed, but was wondering about the long neck empty beer bottles
I have (about 4 cases). Would anyone care to have these? Sorry
if this is the wrong forum, I figured some homebrewers may have
a need for these. Please email me direct if interested. Thanks,
Bernie.
PS I live in Los Altos.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #349, 02/01/90
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