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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Cerro Grande Fire Donations --> Thanks! ("Michael L. Hall")
PID design, heater control. ("Dave Howell")
Peated malt ("Stephen Cavan")
fining with gelatin ("chuck duffney")
Pumps (Ant Hayes)
replies - Zn, Decoctions, Tun design (craftbrewer)
Oops! (Some Guy)
Re: Lauter Design and Manifold Pickup. (Rod Prather)
RIMS FBs (Jeremy Bergsman)
RE: False Bottoms and Manifolds (Jonathan Peakall)
Heat Exchanger auto stirring Device ("Branam, Mike")
Re: dark grains in mash ("patrick finerty jr.")
Smoked beers ("Daniel C Stedman")
Re: PBW and Copper (John Palmer)
Brew pubs in Ixtapa and area (Ralph Link)
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:27:34 -0700 (MST)
From: "Michael L. Hall" <Hall at lanl.gov>
Subject: Cerro Grande Fire Donations --> Thanks!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[In the on-line version at <http://hbd.org/atommash/Cerro_Grande_Thanks/>,
there is a picture here and the links given below are active.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To the Homebrewing Community:
We, the Los Alamos Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club, would like to
extend our deepest appreciation and heartfelt thanks for the many
kindnesses shown us during the aftermath of the Cerro Grande Fire.
In May of this year, the largest fire to burn in New Mexico in
recorded history ravaged Los Alamos and the surrounding area. The
results of the 50,000 acre fire were devastating: 400 homes were
burned to the ground, the nearby forested mountains were reduced to
black charred stubble, and the denuded ground made threats of flash
floods real.
Los Alamos was a confused and traumatized place. The entire town of
18,000 people was evacuated, some neighborhoods for as long as two
weeks. Los Alamos National Laboratory, the major employer in town,
closed its doors for two weeks, an unprecedented occurrence. Many
people lost all of their possessions when their houses burned. Some
houses burned completely while neighboring houses went unscathed.
Everyone knew of friends that had lost their houses. The town was
physically and emotionally damaged.
The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club had serious losses. Three members
lost their houses, one member lost a shed with two motorcycles in his
backyard, and the club library burned. The club had held meetings in
all of the houses that burned. The members that lost houses included
our librarian, and members of our webmaster and newsletter editor
teams.
News of the Atom Masher homebrewer losses got out, via the American
Homebrewers Association (AHA) Board of Advisors email list and local
New Mexico homebrewing email lists. Some gracious people decided that
while they couldn't bring back people's houses, they could help them
get started homebrewing again by donating equipment, supplies, or
just plain cash.
Some people who hear about the contributions think that it is silly
to give homebrewing equipment to people that have just lost
everything. We can assure you that it is not -- after the immediate
short-term needs have been satisfied, the reality of the situation
sinks in. Homebrewing is not one of the essentials in life, but
sometimes it is the small pleasures that restore our sanity.
The list of donations and other help is long; your generosity was
great. The Atom Mashers would like to publicly thank:
Rob Moline, AKA Jethro Gump, a member of the AHA Board of Advisors,
who contacted wholesalers throughout the homebrewing industry.
Holly Kuester, Kelly Kuehl, and all the people at Schreier Malting
Company in Sheboygan, Wisconsin for donating 300 pounds of malted
grain.
Karen Kuipers, Bob Hall, and all of the people at Brew Pack
Products in Salt Lake City, Utah for donating 6 carboys, 6 cases of
12 oz. bottles, 6 cases of 22 oz. bottles, and 450 bottle caps.
All of the people at Automatic Equipment Manufacturing Company in
Pender, Nebraska for donating three Automatic roller mills.
Linda R. Haywood and all of the people at Fromm, Mayer-Bass LLC in
Yakima, Washington for donating 27 one-half pound samples of hop
pellets in 9 different varieties (13.5 pounds of hops).
David Denning, a member of the Albuquerque Dukes of Ale Homebrewing
Club, who spear-headed monetary collections from NM clubs and
contacted his former club, the Knights of the Brown Bottle in
Arlington, Texas.
Dan Listermann and all of the people at Listermann Manufacturing
Company in Cincinnati, Ohio for donating three 15" Phil's
Phillers.
Jack Schmidling of Jack Schmidling Productions in Marengo, Illinois
for donating three EasyMashers.
The revelers at David Denning's "Moose Drool" party and at the
Cerro Grande Fire Survivor's award party (June 17th), who together
donated $98.11 in cash.
The Knights of the Brown Bottle Homebrewing Club in Arlington,
Texas, who donated $175 in cash.
The Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who
donated $195.70 in cash.
The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club themselves, who donated two chest
coolers, two 15-gallon kegs, a party-tap, a brewpot, a hydrometer,
and other miscellaneous brewing equipment.
We also wish to point out that all of the shipping charges were paid
by the donors, including the freight for the malted grain, the carboys
and bottles, the hops, and the grain mills.
Once again, the Atom Mashers would like to express our most profound
appreciation for the outpouring of generosity from the homebrewing
community. We were overwhelmed.
We have included contact information for all of the donors -- please
use their services if you can, for they are truly Heroes of Homebrewing.
Michael L. Hall, Atom Masher President,
on behalf of the entire Atom Masher Club
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact info for the donor businesses and clubs:
Automatic Equipment Mfg. Co. ph. 1-800-228-9289
http://www.automaticag.com/
info at automaticag.com
One Mill Road, Industrial Park
Pender, NE 68047
Brew Pack Products ph. 801-975-7333
http://www.brewpack.com/
info at brewpack.com, sales at brewpack.com
P.O. Box 26668
Salt Lake City, UT 84126
The Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club
http://www.angelfire.com/nm/DukesofAle/
claassen at swcp.com
Albuquerque, NM
Fromm, Mayer-Bass LLC ph. 1-800-FMB-HOPS
http://www.fmbhops.com/
fmb at televar.com
P.O. Box 10824
Yakima, WA 98909-1824
The Knights of the Brown Bottle Homebrewing Club
http://hbd.org/kobb/
joepat54 at flash.net
Arlington, TX
Listermann Manufacturing Co. ph. 513-731-1130
http://www.listermann.com/
Dan at Listermann.com
1621 Dana Ave.
P.O. Box 12251
Cincinnati, OH 45212-0251
Jack Schmidling Productions ph. 815-923-0031
http://user.mc.net/arf/aysindex.htm
arf at mc.net
18016 Church Road
Marengo, IL 60152
Schreier Malting Company ph. 1-800-669-MALT
http://www.schreiermalt.com/
specialtymalt at schreiermalt.com
704 South 15th St.
P.O. Box 59
Sheboygan, WI 53082-0059
The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club
http://hbd.org/atommash
Mike.Hall at POBox.com
Los Alamos, NM 87544
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:58:45 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
Subject: PID design, heater control.
All:
I've got a question for the process engineers amongst us:
For my RIMS, I'm planning an analog parallel PID controller, meaning the
measured value (MV) and the setpoint (SP) are summed in a difference
amplifier (LM324) MV in postitive input, through a weak divider to ground.
Output fed to: a Proportional gain section inverting input, which is LM324
wired as DC amplifier, with neg-feedback into positive input and variable
gain by means of a pot for feedback resistor. The output from the summed
input is also fed to a Integrating section (another 324) which is a
ramp-generator, wired for DC gain (input is also inverting) with a pot to
control amplitude of input; and it is also fed to a Differentiating section,
which looks like an AC amp with a pot to scale the gain. The outputs from
these three stages are summed in another 324 summing amp, and scaled to the
control range.
So what values/ranges for gain for each section should I design for?
Anything in this that I shouldn't do?
BTW, my voltage-to-PWM converter works over 0-1.35V (0-off, 1.35=98.95% Duty
Cycle at 0.5Hz).
Thanks in advance,
Dave Howell
Brewing (and barbequeing tonight) in Mesa, Arizona, while those near the
center of the brewing universe are freezing and covered in snow...
Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.
Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:39:05 -0600
From: "Stephen Cavan" <scavan at sprint.ca>
Subject: Peated malt
Ray Daniels wrote:
[snips]"Finally, with regard to Micah's comment on peat malt. Peat malt must
be used
sparingly (less than 5 percent of the grist) or you'll get nothing but a
piercing phenolic note."
- ---------------------------
In practice I agree with going light with this malt, but I do offer this
experience. I made several 18th century style Porters a couple of years ago
for a conference (18C Society of Canada). In one of my sources for early
brewing methods in Ireland, it was mentioned that Guinness would likely have
been made from 100% peated base malt. So I did that. The result was
over-powering for me, and I warned the audience as a sampler jug was passed
about that they might want only to smell this beer, not actually taste it.
To my utter shock, this jug came back for seconds. It was very popular. The
astonishment on my face was easy to read, and someone noted that I was
addressing a room full of academics, and academic like their single malts.
Although I too am an academic, I don't care for single malt whiskey nor the
beer I brewed with peated malt.
Cheers, Steve
in vino veritas
at in cerevisiae voluptas
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:13:18 -0800
From: "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: fining with gelatin
question: if you fine with gelatin in the secondary, does it cause problems
with bottle conditioning?
chuck_d
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:01:12 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Pumps
Fermentos at Home.com asked,
"Does anyone have a good source for food grade pumps. I have a three
tier all grain system, and while gravity is great, sometimes is needs
assistance."
Our club's solution is a magnetically coupled washing machine or dishwasher
pump. I can get a new AEG pump for the equivalent of less than US$30.
Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:46:50 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: replies - Zn, Decoctions, Tun design
G'day All
Well I should say to everyone - watch this space.
Should have interesting news from North Queensland. may
score a victory of sorts. But I can't show my hand yet, people
may hear of it and that would spoil the surprise.
So onto a couple of replies
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: lauter design/FB question/zinc for Graham
Do heed Graham's point, that more isn't always
better, but I assume you've all stumbled across that life-lesson
in a drinking session sometime.<<<<<<
One is tempted sometimes to argue the finner points and forget
the main thrust of what one.is trying to say. While I can disagree
with some of S's points paticularly quoted Zn levels, the main
point has not been missed and should be re stated.
Dont just starting throwing unknown amounts of Zn in from
tablets, nutrient mixes, pills etc. This is a micronutrient where
talking about and it can be all too easy to get to toxic levels
that will be determential to your yeast growth.
Now having said that I will weigh in on one comment
>>>>If you have a RIMS or a HERMS obviously the FB goes in
before the mash begins and the you don't have a transfer
problem. The small price is that you can't elegantly perform
decoctions (which are IMO nice but over-rated anyway).<<<
I am a decoction junkie and wont go into the benefits v
alternatives argument. But having a 38 Litre HERMS system I
have to inform S that unfortunately you can do decoctions very
elegantly with these systems. The fact is 99% of my brews with
my system are decocted.
Now speaking of HERMS systems
>>From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: False Bottoms & manifolds
Does anyone in this forum have a RIMS/HERMS system
employing a false bottom and an outlet placed directly on the
bottom of the mash tun? <<<<
Well Glen yes I know of a down right decent sort of chap who
has a beaut stainless steel HERMS with the outlet right at the
bottom.
Modesty prevents me saying his name, but I hear his Rainforrest
Rauch and Tropical Wit are the ducks nuts. Not to mention his
fruit lambics.
I also hear he's a bit odd on occasion thou.
Shout
Graham Sanders
Oh.
Plans are a foot. getting all set to spring the big surprise.
Someone in for a shock.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 06:53:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Oops!
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Oops! Please refrain from blaming Drew Avis for the double posting in
yesterday's Digest. Fault rests squarely on the shoulders of yours truly.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:05:47 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Lauter Design and Manifold Pickup.
Stephen said..
> As for the minimum ratio of open area to tun bottom - I believe it's
> actually
> quite small. I use a slotted copper manifold which is probably under 4sq.in
> of open area in a sanke of approx 200sq.in bottom area. I suspect getting
> an even distribution of 'holes' into the bottom is a lot more important than
> the
> area above some minuscule lower bound. Consider how much flow you would
> get thru 4sq.in as a single aperture -
Stephen... that minimum area of your pickup manifold is of little consequence
The limiter is that line you have running from your manifold to the intake of
your pump.... Even if you plumb in 3/4 inch tubing, which most of us don't,
the cross sectional area is only .44 square inches. I have no idea what
Bernoulli would say but I doubt that the manifold cuts would have much effect
once the area of the slots exceeded perhaps ten times the CS area of the
tubing. Which you have done, Steve.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:38:41 -0500
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: RIMS FBs
"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> writes
> Does anyone in this forum have a RIMS/HERMS system employing a false bottom
> and an outlet placed directly on the bottom of the mash tun?
I do. I cut the *bottom* out of my keg and made a fitting that threads into
the keg tap fitting which in turn accepts 1/2" pipe. I use a standard
perforated SS FB which is the full keg diameter. Like a previous poster, I
have particulate matter build up under the FB which remains long after wort
is running clear. Sudden changes in flow rate can cause it to come out. I
play with the valve that controls my flow rate a bunch shortly before I
start to collect runoff to try to get most of it to recirculate. I still
get some near the end of the runnoff in most cases but it's a minor amount.
The particulates that remain are rather large and settle out easily. The
seem to accumulate during the entire vorlauf since if I do the handle
jiggling too early there is always more later. I believe it is just stuff
creeping through the FB and they are heavy enough that they don't get swept
over to the outlet with the low flow rate under the FB.
As for your screen idea, I would worry about insufficient area and
clogging. As reported by most rimsers, there is plenty of particulate
matter that must come through whatever straining device you use at the
beginning of recirculation.
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at stanford.edu
http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 06:19:02 -0800
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RE: False Bottoms and Manifolds
Glen is asking about locating the output of his mash tun directly on the
bottom:
I did Glen, and it's kind of a PITA. Not only does one have to jerk the
tun straight up to clear the stand at clean up time, but one can't set
the damn thing down on it's bottom. If I could change mine, I would. It
ain't the end of the world, but I would do the side if I were you.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:46:24 -0500
From: "Branam, Mike" <Mike.Branam at BellSouth.COM>
Subject: Heat Exchanger auto stirring Device
In my search for a RIMS design I came across what I thought was a neat
design that solved all my issues. It was a design (SHMS Soft Heat Mash
System) by David Ludwig whose web site I list below.
http://www.us.hsanet.net/user/dludwig/webdoc3.htm
The system uses a heat exchanger in the mash tun with an automatic stirring
paddle. I was wonder if any one else has any experience with this type of
system? How does the stirring affect yield? It appears that this system
would deliver a more even heat distribution with out scorching due to the
lower heat exchanger and constant stirring.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:35:03 -0500
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Re: dark grains in mash
howdy,
On December 7, 2000, Frank Tutzauer asked about when people add dark
grains.
i add mine in the mash. the dark grain is milled with everything else
and treated the same way. i use a cooler to mash and the water i add
to the grain is usually ~16 F above what i want the mash to be. i have
brewed several beers using dark grains, including two amber ales and
four versions of a porter and have not noticed any astringency.
-patrick in Toronto
- --
"There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
http://finerty.net/pjf
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:54:36 -0600
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com>
Subject: Smoked beers
My favorite method for achieving a nice smokiness in my porters is to add an
entire 8 lb smoked salmon to my wort during the last 15 minutes of the boil.
YMMV
Dan in Minnetonka (who is kidding, of course!)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:26:08 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: PBW and Copper
Dave got a sky blue color from using PBW in his brewpot with a copper/brass
manifold inside it. He didn't state the brewpot material, but I am guessing
it is stainless. The blue is definitely from the copper, and I don't think
you necessarily need sulfate present to create the blue color, although if
the brewpot was dirty, there could be organic sulfates present, Or, had you
added gypsum to the boil?
Sounds to me like there was a galvanic reaction between the copper pipe and
the brewpot material, and the copper dissolved in the strong PBW electrolyte.
I don't think there is a need to *fix* anything, just rinse everything out
and take the copper piece out before hand next time.
I am trying to think if I have ever seen this... I use a copper slotted
pipe pickup in my sankey keg boiler, but I don't use PBW after brewing. I
just hose it out with water and use a green scrubby.
John
- --
John Palmer
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com
Let there be Peace on Earth.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:06:00 -0600
From: Ralph Link <rlink15 at home.com>
Subject: Brew pubs in Ixtapa and area
I will be spending Christmas in Ixtapa Mexico, does anyone know of any brew
pubs in the area. Private e-mail are appreciated. Best wishes to everyone
in the collective and Merry Christmas to all.
Return to table of contents
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