HOMEBREW Digest #3499 Sat 09 December 2000

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  Cerro Grande Fire Donations --> Thanks! ("Michael L. Hall")
  PID design, heater control. ("Dave Howell")
  Peated malt ("Stephen Cavan")
  fining with gelatin ("chuck duffney")
  Pumps (Ant Hayes)
  replies - Zn, Decoctions, Tun design (craftbrewer)
  Oops! (Some Guy)
  Re: Lauter Design and Manifold Pickup. (Rod Prather)
  RIMS FBs (Jeremy Bergsman)
  RE: False Bottoms and Manifolds (Jonathan Peakall)
  Heat Exchanger auto stirring Device ("Branam, Mike")
  Re: dark grains in mash ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Smoked beers ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Re: PBW and Copper (John Palmer)
  Brew pubs in Ixtapa and area (Ralph Link)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:27:34 -0700 (MST) From: "Michael L. Hall" <Hall at lanl.gov> Subject: Cerro Grande Fire Donations --> Thanks! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [In the on-line version at <http://hbd.org/atommash/Cerro_Grande_Thanks/>, there is a picture here and the links given below are active.] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To the Homebrewing Community: We, the Los Alamos Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club, would like to extend our deepest appreciation and heartfelt thanks for the many kindnesses shown us during the aftermath of the Cerro Grande Fire. In May of this year, the largest fire to burn in New Mexico in recorded history ravaged Los Alamos and the surrounding area. The results of the 50,000 acre fire were devastating: 400 homes were burned to the ground, the nearby forested mountains were reduced to black charred stubble, and the denuded ground made threats of flash floods real. Los Alamos was a confused and traumatized place. The entire town of 18,000 people was evacuated, some neighborhoods for as long as two weeks. Los Alamos National Laboratory, the major employer in town, closed its doors for two weeks, an unprecedented occurrence. Many people lost all of their possessions when their houses burned. Some houses burned completely while neighboring houses went unscathed. Everyone knew of friends that had lost their houses. The town was physically and emotionally damaged. The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club had serious losses. Three members lost their houses, one member lost a shed with two motorcycles in his backyard, and the club library burned. The club had held meetings in all of the houses that burned. The members that lost houses included our librarian, and members of our webmaster and newsletter editor teams. News of the Atom Masher homebrewer losses got out, via the American Homebrewers Association (AHA) Board of Advisors email list and local New Mexico homebrewing email lists. Some gracious people decided that while they couldn't bring back people's houses, they could help them get started homebrewing again by donating equipment, supplies, or just plain cash. Some people who hear about the contributions think that it is silly to give homebrewing equipment to people that have just lost everything. We can assure you that it is not -- after the immediate short-term needs have been satisfied, the reality of the situation sinks in. Homebrewing is not one of the essentials in life, but sometimes it is the small pleasures that restore our sanity. The list of donations and other help is long; your generosity was great. The Atom Mashers would like to publicly thank: Rob Moline, AKA Jethro Gump, a member of the AHA Board of Advisors, who contacted wholesalers throughout the homebrewing industry. Holly Kuester, Kelly Kuehl, and all the people at Schreier Malting Company in Sheboygan, Wisconsin for donating 300 pounds of malted grain. Karen Kuipers, Bob Hall, and all of the people at Brew Pack Products in Salt Lake City, Utah for donating 6 carboys, 6 cases of 12 oz. bottles, 6 cases of 22 oz. bottles, and 450 bottle caps. All of the people at Automatic Equipment Manufacturing Company in Pender, Nebraska for donating three Automatic roller mills. Linda R. Haywood and all of the people at Fromm, Mayer-Bass LLC in Yakima, Washington for donating 27 one-half pound samples of hop pellets in 9 different varieties (13.5 pounds of hops). David Denning, a member of the Albuquerque Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club, who spear-headed monetary collections from NM clubs and contacted his former club, the Knights of the Brown Bottle in Arlington, Texas. Dan Listermann and all of the people at Listermann Manufacturing Company in Cincinnati, Ohio for donating three 15" Phil's Phillers. Jack Schmidling of Jack Schmidling Productions in Marengo, Illinois for donating three EasyMashers. The revelers at David Denning's "Moose Drool" party and at the Cerro Grande Fire Survivor's award party (June 17th), who together donated $98.11 in cash. The Knights of the Brown Bottle Homebrewing Club in Arlington, Texas, who donated $175 in cash. The Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who donated $195.70 in cash. The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club themselves, who donated two chest coolers, two 15-gallon kegs, a party-tap, a brewpot, a hydrometer, and other miscellaneous brewing equipment. We also wish to point out that all of the shipping charges were paid by the donors, including the freight for the malted grain, the carboys and bottles, the hops, and the grain mills. Once again, the Atom Mashers would like to express our most profound appreciation for the outpouring of generosity from the homebrewing community. We were overwhelmed. We have included contact information for all of the donors -- please use their services if you can, for they are truly Heroes of Homebrewing. Michael L. Hall, Atom Masher President, on behalf of the entire Atom Masher Club ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact info for the donor businesses and clubs: Automatic Equipment Mfg. Co. ph. 1-800-228-9289 http://www.automaticag.com/ info at automaticag.com One Mill Road, Industrial Park Pender, NE 68047 Brew Pack Products ph. 801-975-7333 http://www.brewpack.com/ info at brewpack.com, sales at brewpack.com P.O. Box 26668 Salt Lake City, UT 84126 The Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club http://www.angelfire.com/nm/DukesofAle/ claassen at swcp.com Albuquerque, NM Fromm, Mayer-Bass LLC ph. 1-800-FMB-HOPS http://www.fmbhops.com/ fmb at televar.com P.O. Box 10824 Yakima, WA 98909-1824 The Knights of the Brown Bottle Homebrewing Club http://hbd.org/kobb/ joepat54 at flash.net Arlington, TX Listermann Manufacturing Co. ph. 513-731-1130 http://www.listermann.com/ Dan at Listermann.com 1621 Dana Ave. P.O. Box 12251 Cincinnati, OH 45212-0251 Jack Schmidling Productions ph. 815-923-0031 http://user.mc.net/arf/aysindex.htm arf at mc.net 18016 Church Road Marengo, IL 60152 Schreier Malting Company ph. 1-800-669-MALT http://www.schreiermalt.com/ specialtymalt at schreiermalt.com 704 South 15th St. P.O. Box 59 Sheboygan, WI 53082-0059 The Atom Mashers Homebrewing Club http://hbd.org/atommash Mike.Hall at POBox.com Los Alamos, NM 87544 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:58:45 -0700 From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net> Subject: PID design, heater control. All: I've got a question for the process engineers amongst us: For my RIMS, I'm planning an analog parallel PID controller, meaning the measured value (MV) and the setpoint (SP) are summed in a difference amplifier (LM324) MV in postitive input, through a weak divider to ground. Output fed to: a Proportional gain section inverting input, which is LM324 wired as DC amplifier, with neg-feedback into positive input and variable gain by means of a pot for feedback resistor. The output from the summed input is also fed to a Integrating section (another 324) which is a ramp-generator, wired for DC gain (input is also inverting) with a pot to control amplitude of input; and it is also fed to a Differentiating section, which looks like an AC amp with a pot to scale the gain. The outputs from these three stages are summed in another 324 summing amp, and scaled to the control range. So what values/ranges for gain for each section should I design for? Anything in this that I shouldn't do? BTW, my voltage-to-PWM converter works over 0-1.35V (0-off, 1.35=98.95% Duty Cycle at 0.5Hz). Thanks in advance, Dave Howell Brewing (and barbequeing tonight) in Mesa, Arizona, while those near the center of the brewing universe are freezing and covered in snow... Costello: You know I'm a catcher too. Abbott: So they tell me. Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who? Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right. Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:39:05 -0600 From: "Stephen Cavan" <scavan at sprint.ca> Subject: Peated malt Ray Daniels wrote: [snips]"Finally, with regard to Micah's comment on peat malt. Peat malt must be used sparingly (less than 5 percent of the grist) or you'll get nothing but a piercing phenolic note." - --------------------------- In practice I agree with going light with this malt, but I do offer this experience. I made several 18th century style Porters a couple of years ago for a conference (18C Society of Canada). In one of my sources for early brewing methods in Ireland, it was mentioned that Guinness would likely have been made from 100% peated base malt. So I did that. The result was over-powering for me, and I warned the audience as a sampler jug was passed about that they might want only to smell this beer, not actually taste it. To my utter shock, this jug came back for seconds. It was very popular. The astonishment on my face was easy to read, and someone noted that I was addressing a room full of academics, and academic like their single malts. Although I too am an academic, I don't care for single malt whiskey nor the beer I brewed with peated malt. Cheers, Steve in vino veritas at in cerevisiae voluptas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:13:18 -0800 From: "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: fining with gelatin question: if you fine with gelatin in the secondary, does it cause problems with bottle conditioning? chuck_d Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:01:12 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Pumps Fermentos at Home.com asked, "Does anyone have a good source for food grade pumps. I have a three tier all grain system, and while gravity is great, sometimes is needs assistance." Our club's solution is a magnetically coupled washing machine or dishwasher pump. I can get a new AEG pump for the equivalent of less than US$30. Ant Hayes Gauteng; South Africa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:46:50 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: replies - Zn, Decoctions, Tun design G'day All Well I should say to everyone - watch this space. Should have interesting news from North Queensland. may score a victory of sorts. But I can't show my hand yet, people may hear of it and that would spoil the surprise. So onto a couple of replies From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: lauter design/FB question/zinc for Graham Do heed Graham's point, that more isn't always better, but I assume you've all stumbled across that life-lesson in a drinking session sometime.<<<<<< One is tempted sometimes to argue the finner points and forget the main thrust of what one.is trying to say. While I can disagree with some of S's points paticularly quoted Zn levels, the main point has not been missed and should be re stated. Dont just starting throwing unknown amounts of Zn in from tablets, nutrient mixes, pills etc. This is a micronutrient where talking about and it can be all too easy to get to toxic levels that will be determential to your yeast growth. Now having said that I will weigh in on one comment >>>>If you have a RIMS or a HERMS obviously the FB goes in before the mash begins and the you don't have a transfer problem. The small price is that you can't elegantly perform decoctions (which are IMO nice but over-rated anyway).<<< I am a decoction junkie and wont go into the benefits v alternatives argument. But having a 38 Litre HERMS system I have to inform S that unfortunately you can do decoctions very elegantly with these systems. The fact is 99% of my brews with my system are decocted. Now speaking of HERMS systems >>From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: False Bottoms & manifolds Does anyone in this forum have a RIMS/HERMS system employing a false bottom and an outlet placed directly on the bottom of the mash tun? <<<< Well Glen yes I know of a down right decent sort of chap who has a beaut stainless steel HERMS with the outlet right at the bottom. Modesty prevents me saying his name, but I hear his Rainforrest Rauch and Tropical Wit are the ducks nuts. Not to mention his fruit lambics. I also hear he's a bit odd on occasion thou. Shout Graham Sanders Oh. Plans are a foot. getting all set to spring the big surprise. Someone in for a shock. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 06:53:29 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Oops! Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Oops! Please refrain from blaming Drew Avis for the double posting in yesterday's Digest. Fault rests squarely on the shoulders of yours truly. - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:05:47 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Re: Lauter Design and Manifold Pickup. Stephen said.. > As for the minimum ratio of open area to tun bottom - I believe it's > actually > quite small. I use a slotted copper manifold which is probably under 4sq.in > of open area in a sanke of approx 200sq.in bottom area. I suspect getting > an even distribution of 'holes' into the bottom is a lot more important than > the > area above some minuscule lower bound. Consider how much flow you would > get thru 4sq.in as a single aperture - Stephen... that minimum area of your pickup manifold is of little consequence The limiter is that line you have running from your manifold to the intake of your pump.... Even if you plumb in 3/4 inch tubing, which most of us don't, the cross sectional area is only .44 square inches. I have no idea what Bernoulli would say but I doubt that the manifold cuts would have much effect once the area of the slots exceeded perhaps ten times the CS area of the tubing. Which you have done, Steve. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 08:38:41 -0500 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu> Subject: RIMS FBs "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> writes > Does anyone in this forum have a RIMS/HERMS system employing a false bottom > and an outlet placed directly on the bottom of the mash tun? I do. I cut the *bottom* out of my keg and made a fitting that threads into the keg tap fitting which in turn accepts 1/2" pipe. I use a standard perforated SS FB which is the full keg diameter. Like a previous poster, I have particulate matter build up under the FB which remains long after wort is running clear. Sudden changes in flow rate can cause it to come out. I play with the valve that controls my flow rate a bunch shortly before I start to collect runoff to try to get most of it to recirculate. I still get some near the end of the runnoff in most cases but it's a minor amount. The particulates that remain are rather large and settle out easily. The seem to accumulate during the entire vorlauf since if I do the handle jiggling too early there is always more later. I believe it is just stuff creeping through the FB and they are heavy enough that they don't get swept over to the outlet with the low flow rate under the FB. As for your screen idea, I would worry about insufficient area and clogging. As reported by most rimsers, there is plenty of particulate matter that must come through whatever straining device you use at the beginning of recirculation. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 06:19:02 -0800 From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org> Subject: RE: False Bottoms and Manifolds Glen is asking about locating the output of his mash tun directly on the bottom: I did Glen, and it's kind of a PITA. Not only does one have to jerk the tun straight up to clear the stand at clean up time, but one can't set the damn thing down on it's bottom. If I could change mine, I would. It ain't the end of the world, but I would do the side if I were you. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:46:24 -0500 From: "Branam, Mike" <Mike.Branam at BellSouth.COM> Subject: Heat Exchanger auto stirring Device In my search for a RIMS design I came across what I thought was a neat design that solved all my issues. It was a design (SHMS Soft Heat Mash System) by David Ludwig whose web site I list below. http://www.us.hsanet.net/user/dludwig/webdoc3.htm The system uses a heat exchanger in the mash tun with an automatic stirring paddle. I was wonder if any one else has any experience with this type of system? How does the stirring affect yield? It appears that this system would deliver a more even heat distribution with out scorching due to the lower heat exchanger and constant stirring. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:35:03 -0500 From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: Re: dark grains in mash howdy, On December 7, 2000, Frank Tutzauer asked about when people add dark grains. i add mine in the mash. the dark grain is milled with everything else and treated the same way. i use a cooler to mash and the water i add to the grain is usually ~16 F above what i want the mash to be. i have brewed several beers using dark grains, including two amber ales and four versions of a porter and have not noticed any astringency. -patrick in Toronto - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:54:36 -0600 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Smoked beers My favorite method for achieving a nice smokiness in my porters is to add an entire 8 lb smoked salmon to my wort during the last 15 minutes of the boil. YMMV Dan in Minnetonka (who is kidding, of course!) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:26:08 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Re: PBW and Copper Dave got a sky blue color from using PBW in his brewpot with a copper/brass manifold inside it. He didn't state the brewpot material, but I am guessing it is stainless. The blue is definitely from the copper, and I don't think you necessarily need sulfate present to create the blue color, although if the brewpot was dirty, there could be organic sulfates present, Or, had you added gypsum to the boil? Sounds to me like there was a galvanic reaction between the copper pipe and the brewpot material, and the copper dissolved in the strong PBW electrolyte. I don't think there is a need to *fix* anything, just rinse everything out and take the copper piece out before hand next time. I am trying to think if I have ever seen this... I use a copper slotted pipe pickup in my sankey keg boiler, but I don't use PBW after brewing. I just hose it out with water and use a green scrubby. John - -- John Palmer Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer How To Brew - the online book http://www.howtobrew.com Let there be Peace on Earth. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:06:00 -0600 From: Ralph Link <rlink15 at home.com> Subject: Brew pubs in Ixtapa and area I will be spending Christmas in Ixtapa Mexico, does anyone know of any brew pubs in the area. Private e-mail are appreciated. Best wishes to everyone in the collective and Merry Christmas to all. Return to table of contents
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