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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Caught the bugger (craftbrewer)
  Oktoberfest ("Casey Cobb")
  primary fermentation...how long? ("chuck duffney")
  re: One more thing on recycling yeast ("Stephen Alexander")
  RE: False Bottoms and PID settings (Nate Wahl)
  I Tracked Him Down ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Hoegaarden clone recipe (MObucho829)
  Re: fining with gelatin (Jeff Renner)
  Egg Nog (Jeff Renner)
  confluences & homebrews (Jennifer Squires)
  Where could I find a PID controller or a schematic for a garage-made controller for a RIMS ("Steve Guernsey")
  Yum Yum Smokey Bum ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  RIMS in line filter possibility ("Bruce Garner")
  Frozen Pils ("Joe Sheets")
  Chuck's white powder (no-rinse sanitizer) ("Sean Richens")
  Oat Effect? (RobertS735)
  Iron Removal ("A. J.")
  PID ("A. J.")


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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:58:13 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Caught the bugger 

G'day All

Well I can reveal all. Our covert operation in the deep north has 
been a complete success. mind you it almost failed. Fell over 
laughing again at your election. This court rules this, another 
that. Logic has to say that there must be more lawyers per 
head in the USA than anywhere else in the world. I can see 
why,. Cant you buggers make up your mind in USA. No wonder 
some on the HBD are confused. 

So let me inform you people the events that have lead me to a 
great day in North Queensland surveillance.

Well its all starts with that Phil Yates bragging how he can flitter 
in and out of North Queensland at will on his broom. Well I 
couldn't let that rest - no bloody way. The word went out to all my 
contacts up here. So when my spies at the airport contacted me 
advising that a pilot by the name of Yates will be arriving today for 
a short stop-over, and that it could be the guy I'm after, I couldn't 
miss this chance. 

A quick background check confirmed my suspensions. Yep he's
 trying it on again. Not this time mate. So I arrange to with the airline 
that Phil was needed at the front counter immediately on landing. 
And as arranged after the flight landed and the plane had spewed 
out the sheep, out strutted Mr Yates, actually looking a bit worse 
for whare. Looked like he actually drove the plane for once.

yep in goes one packet of bex. Hard life being a pilot. Out he 
comes to the counter.
"SPRUNG" I yell. Well - he took the position ;like a pro (obviously 
done this before) with a louder yell of "OH SH+T". Suddenly its 
two bex. Well two wide eyes peeped out under that fancy hat 
of his. So I flash my Nth Qld Identity Card - "OH F==K - SANDERS"

Yep now its three bex. The stuttering starts, "what, how , no, 
can't be". Well he settles and gives this half baked excuse he 
was on the wrong flight, and he would have called. Now I'm not 
falling for this one, no way. I drag him off to the side.

"Where's my Carton" . Well that brought on the fourth bex. "Oh I 
have a rice lager here." Now I suspected it was only good for 
wiping the windshield, but to try to pass a bottle over with a spray 
nozzle on the top was a just a bit rich. " you know the drum mate"
So I dragged him to the bar. It was like taking a kid to the dentist, 
feet dragging, protests every step. And this from a man in charge 
of those flying coffins.

Now here's the rub. He tries to buy me a carton of XXXX. "No-No 
my friend" and I point to the Chimay at the bottom. "a carton of 
that will be fine, well call it square after that". 
Well kidney failure was almost guaranteed, one 
whole box down the gullet. Now he was white as a sheet when 
he saw me, but the carton of Chimay utterly made him jet white.
I would swear even Jill will be surprised when she find ALL his 
hair is now white. 

So thats where I left the poor bastard, stuttering something like 
"So thats God", suffering renal failure, wallet a whole lot lighter, 
and him having a new found respect of North Queenslanders.
I think I left an impression.

I checked later to make sure the flight took off allright. Seems Air 
traffic control kept hearing "I'm out of damned Bex" repeating 
over and over and over.  last I hear the 
co-pilot had landed the plane and an ambulance was heading to 
the plane.

Shout

Graham Sanders

Oh I did compensate the poor fella. I still intend to drink the famed 
rice lager, but I might pour it out of the bottle instead of using the 
squirter.  He also got a Rainforrest Rauch in return for his troubles. I 
have this feeling this will be the last time I see him.

Now I warn Dr Pivo now. Any similar stunt will be met with similar 
gusto. We have border controls too in case you try it by land.






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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:18:48 -0800
From: "Casey Cobb" <acez at mindspring.com>
Subject: Oktoberfest

Hey guys,

I undertook the task of making a true lager, fully understanding it was
going to be high mantainance, and I have a bit of a problem. First off, I am
using the "Son of a fermentation chiller" mentioned in past hbd mailings and
I can get my beer down to about 42 degrees, with usually no more than 5
degrees variance. My plan was to brew the oktoberfest, let it ferment for 10
days at 52 degrees, then bring it up to 60 degrees over two days, let it set
for a day and rack into a secondary. Then let it set at 40 degrees for two
weeks and 35 for another two weeks in a third carboy.

This is what I did.

I brewed it, let it set and it had an initial fermentation within a day, but
it seemed relatively short, with maybe a quarter inch of foam left on the
sides. Being the dummy I am, I forgot the put the second peice of the
airlock on, but the cap was on so I don't think it hurt anything. I watched
it set for the next few days, keeping it around 52 degrees, and after a few
days, it started fermenting again. After 15 days, I started taking it up to
60 degrees. No new foam on the surface but you could see it kick out of the
airlock about once every 6 seconds or so. After about 17 days from brewing
(my original plan was 10) I racked into the secondary, even though I could
see it still bubbling. There was no real way to keep it at a steady temp
while racking, so it probably got up to maybe 67 degrees. So now its back in
the chiller, and I dropped it 5 degrees a day, and its at about 43 degrees
now, with no real activity. Did I mess something up? Should I add more
yeast? I ask this because it was fermenting pretty good before the racking,
and is stagnant now. I guess since I can't get it down to 35, Ill just keep
it at 42 or so for about a month.

I look forward to you professionals letting me know how bad I messed it up.

Thanks in advance,
 -Casey
acez at mindspring.com



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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:55:01 -0800
From: "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: primary fermentation...how long?

so i just got myself a couple glass carboys (thanks to scott from new york,
if you're reading this), and now i have the option of a two stage
fermentation.  i've got my first glass batch in the primary right now.  my
question is when to rack to the secondary.  do i wait for the entire krausen
to fall back into the beer?  or should i pay most attention to the rate of
co2 production (ie. airlock bubbling)?

thanks,
chuck_d

as a side note, how do most people start their racking canes?  i fill my
hose and as much of the upper part of the cane as possible (it's upside
down), then invert the cane to fill it it completely.  i seal the hose with
my thumb, and put my cane in the beer, then drain the water into a bowl
until beer starts and move to my bottling bucket or whatever.  is there an
easier way?  oh, and when i say water i mean that no-rinse sanitizing
solution.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 04:56:10 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: One more thing on recycling yeast

Among his always excellent posts Glen Pannicke writes ...

>However, secondary yeast cakes will have a high number of cells from
younger
>generations.

I don't agree.  Yeast can bud about 50 times - that is live 50 generations.
In a brewing fermentation the yeast undergo 3 or 4 generations.  You will
certainly lose some cells to age (those at gen 46+) you will
also increase the 'age' of the pitched cells by 3 or 4 generations.  The net
is that you should have much the same distribution of yeast cell ages
before and after fermentation.  To say that secondary cakes have more
young cells would have to be based on older cells selectively flocculating
or dying early after repitching..  If two pitched cells are 40 vs 2
generations old is one more likely to remain in the primary  ?  I dunno -
possible but where's the evidence.  Of course if yeast  are mishandled
they'll remain in the primary, but that's true whether the cell is 2 or 40
generations old when pitched.

>As the growth progresses, dissolved wort oxygen and lipids are
>consumed which are necessary nutrients to yeast sterol production.


LIPIDs are basically any old thing soluble in non-polar solvents with fatty
acids and sterols topping our list of interest.

FATTY ACIDS(FA) are components of real 'fats'.  If hydrogen bonds are
maximal, the FA is called SATURATED (SFA).  If one or more adjacent
carbons share a double bond and the FA is called UNSATURATED
(UFA).  If there is more than one unsaturation point the FA is
POLY-UNSATURATED (PUFA).

Most FAs are left in the grist & break, but a significant amount appears
in wort.  Lucky for brewers yeast consume wort FAs, since UFAs in
beer will kill head like mad.

Yeast also synthesize FAs, but desaturation of SFAs to UFAs and
PUFAs requires free oxygen. The UFAs and particularly PUFAs are
important for cell membrane regulation & structure.  An interesting
factoid is that desaturating a given FA decreases its freezing point.
Yeast produce more PUFAs in response to cooler fermentation temps.
Also (see below) most PUFAs are produced very early in fermentation,
which may be a reason to pitch yeast into fully cooled wort.

Sterols ... Think of choleSTEROL, and STEROids wrt STEROLs.   These
have functions in cell membrane regulation.  Yeast can take in wort
sterols, but wort doesn't have much, or can synthesize them.  All yeast
sterols have squalene as a precursor and all require free oxygen to
produce sterols from squalene.

In a real fermentation there is free oxygen introduced when the wort is
aerated, but yeast will consume the free O2 quickly, certainly w/in a
couple hours initially.  During fermentation introduced O2 will be cleared
in perhaps as little as 20 minutes.

>Sterols
>are required compounds for health yeast cell walls and are split between
the
>mother and daughter yeast cells when they bud from each other.  If there's
>no more dissolved oxygen and not enough lipids in the trub for the yeasts
to
>make more sterols, the sterol content will rapidly diminish in subsequent
>generations.  Result: younger generation cells having weak cell walls and
>are poor performers.

Well, yeast can absorb sterols from wort, or make them using oxygen, but
just to clarify - yeast cannot make sterols from non-sterol wort lipids.
If the mother and daughter cells split the sterol why would the daughter
cells be lower in lipid than their mothers ? What is clear is that as
anaerobic fermentation proceeds average yeast cell sterol level drops
with cell division.

>Sterols will not be replenished until you feed your yeasts again with new
>wort containing a high dissolved wort oxygen level or a good bit of trub
>lipids.  So if you plan on only re-using your yeast cake one or possibly
>twice, secondary yeasts wouldn't be a bad idea.  Heck, just drop the new
>wort right onto the old cake and shake it up good to dissolve as much air
as
>possible.  I've done it in a pinch and it works just fine.  If you plan on
>reusing two or more times however, I'd suggest using your primary cake.

Trub is never a great source of sterols - plants just have a lot less and it
isn't easily extracted.  But here's the interesting twist. During end-phase
fermentation, assuming the yeast have hit some growth limit besides carbs,
they build up substantial amounts of storage carbohydrates - a dimeric
sugar callled trehalose and a large complicated carb called glycogen.  They
also build up very substantial amounts of squalene - the sterol precursor !

After floccing they aren't dead, they are essentially hibernating and using
primarily the storage carbohydrates for energy.

What happens in the first couple hours after you hit them with fresh wort ?

1/ Catabolite repression (Crabtree effect)
Fresh wort contains 6%-8% glucose as a percent of extract, so a 7P or
greater wort will contain greater than 0.4P (0.4%) of glucose and at this
level and above pitched cells will undergo catabolite repression.  One
aspect is that they ferment, tho' they could respire.  That's a minor issue.
Much more serious is that during initial catabolite repression the yeast
will not consume any wort sugars at all !

2/ The yeast in the first 2 hours  consume the vast majority of
their glycogen reserves 75-90%.  They also consume most of their
trehalose reserve, but then build trehalose back up quickly.  Glycogen
stores aren't rebuilt till after catabolite repression and not fully
restored
till very late in fermentation.

3/ They consume all the available oxygen in those first 2hrs.  And in
one study the sterol level rose from 0.1% to 1% and the percentage
of UFA increased from 10% to 50% of all FAs

So there you have it - for the 1st couple hours after pitching the yeast
are just sensing the availability of wort sugar, not consuming it, are
using internal reserves and external O2 to make sterol from stored
squalene and to make UFAs and PUFAs from SFAs.  The cell mass
is nearly constant..

There is a direct and strong relationship between loss of glycogen
and production of sterol.  Low glycogen yeast (as during hours 2-6
or so) will not produce sterols and high glycogen yeast will produce
sterol given the presence of oxygen.

- --

The practical problem is this.   Ideally in brewing  the
yeast growth limit is the lack of sugar.  We want the yeast to
ferment vigorously right up until the time the FG is hit.  We don't
like it when our fermenters bubble slowly for those last few days.

Using carbs as the growth limiting factor in brewing means that yeast
may not be able to create optimal storage carbo & squalene stores
and so when repitched will not be able to create sterols needed for a
subsequent vigorous fermentation.  The only solution would be to
repitch and then aerate further after the catabolite repression phase
(about the time the first bubbles push through the airlock).

This difficulty comes from the fact that making good beer is different
than making healthy yeast and you can't optimize both.

I don't know, but suspect that low glycogen reserves may be involved
in long lag phases.

 -S





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Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 05:36:08 -0500
From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: RE: False Bottoms and PID settings

Ladies and Gents! Two things.

I use an outlet under my false bottom, basically an elbow welded to the
underside of the keg about halfway form center to the edge, then out a
hole in the keg skirt.  This works well; when I get a bunch of crap
under the screen (always), it seems to settle out at the lower center
after the vorlauf, away from the outlet, and as someone else mentioned,
flow perturbations may bring some of it out.

Take a look at some of the construction pics at
http://www.cros.net/cruiser/Brewery/nate_herms.html.  The site sorely
needs updating, but the pics are there showing the screen and outlet. 
Some of the info is wrong; I now use an RTD probe, and after about 20
batches have fine-tuned the process a lot.

I'm fairly satisfied with its performance, and the only stuck mash I
ever got was from milling way too fine on a new mill's first run.

I also run flow at the minimum to get reasonable ramp rates, no more.
There's a vacuum gauge on the tun outlet, but I'm gonna remove it,
because except for the said stuck mash, I haven't seen it off the peg
lately running the system like this.  Bernoulli would be proud!

As for PID control, what I've found works well is to use a low
Proportional value, a gain of about 1.3 or so; for Integral I'd suggest
a 1/3 range setting, and little if any Derivative.  This was determined
from experience and talking to some of our I&C techs at work.

Mind you, I'm measuring grainbed temperature with an adjustable height
probe, set about 1/4 the way down in the mash; where your sensor is
located can drastically affect how the setup performs.  It took a lot of
messing around with the tuns full of water to find the right depth; if
you're measuring tun outlet temperature, overshooting tendencies because
of the delay through the grainbed would necessitate jacking the
Proportional down and the Integral and Derivative up, I'd think.

If you're looking at heat source outlet, just set the controller up to
nail outlet temp just above where you want the grain to end up, I'd
think, otherwise the bottom of the mash will never get to temperature. 
Although it would surely prevent overshooting, you'll go nuts watching
the swings form controller action.  Measuring inside the grainbed
moderates the input signal, IMHO (IMHO on all this stuff!)

Hope this helps,
Nate
(Oogie Wa Wa)


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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:18:04 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: I Tracked Him Down

Whilst the rest of you were puzzling over maps and scratching your heads
pondering his whereabouts, I went out and found him.

All the way to Townsville in North Queensland I travelled today (just a part
of my job of course) and met the elusive Mr Sanders. He really does exist.
And he is more awesome than I ever would have imagined. Do you think he
didn't give me buggery trying to get out of Townsville without paying my
dues?

I thought I would slip into town and make a few descreet enquires, but I
never got past the bloody airport. There he was, as large as life waiting
for me.

Crocodile Dundee looks like a bloomin pansy compared to our Mr Sanders. I
can see he has wrestled a croc or two in his time. Personally, I feel great
pity for SWMBO (though I didn't get to meet her).

Humbly I offered him a bottle of my rice lager (which he said he would
probably just tip down the sink) and then I handed him my latest creation -
the "to die for" peach wheat beer.

None of this was enough and in the end it cost me an awful lot of money just
to be allowed to leave. I'm going to submit a claim to Pat Babcock as my
whole venture was on behalf of the HBD, just to see if Cracker Boy really
did exist. I can't afford too many meetings like this!!

And if you think this is more than enough for a Baron to endure in one day,
hold tight, there is more to come. I get back to the safety of New South
Wales to find a curious message on my mobile phone. I have to play it back
twice before I understand the heavily accented voice.
"My name is Jeff Irvine, I'm in Sydney and will be coming to Burradoo to
visit you, please inform your wife".

So now I have Doc Pivo arriving on my door step!! Christ! (sorry for the
language) What a bloody day!
I'd better pack Jill away in the cupboard. I wouldn't want the Doc to
discover my marriage is a farce and that I am really only living with a blow
up dummy.

Now all I need is for Jeff Renner to ring and say he has arrived back at
Burradoo train station and wants me to come and pick him up!

Or worse still, Ray Kruse may return trying to sell me his version of
American democracy! Not to mention another bottle of skunk oil!

After all of this, I reckon a beer with Steve Alexander would be better than
expected.

I think it's me who needs a bex, a cup of tea and a good lie down!

I'm even beginning to think the Croatian next door isn't such a bad chap
after all.

Will Keep You All Informed
Phil



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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:55:43 EST
From: MObucho829 at aol.com
Subject: Hoegaarden clone recipe

In a message dated 12/7/2000 4:25:26 PM Central Standard Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< 
 << Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:24:57 -0600 
  From: Rick Nelson <Rick.Nelson at iVita.com>
  Subject: Celis copy receipe...
  
  Since this favorite of mine is going away, I'd like to know if anyone can
  give me a link to a copy receipe...
  
  Thanks,
  
  Rick
   >>
 Matthew O   MObucho829 at aol.com
 
 In the Nov. 2000 issue of Brew Your Own (the all things Belgian issue) they 
 give a recipe for Hoegaarden Wit
 2 lbs. pale malt
 2 lbs. malted wheat
 1 lb flaked wheat
 1 lb flaked oats
 2 lbs. unhopped wheat dry malt extract
 3 AAU East Kent Goldings hops (0.75 oz. at 4% AA)
 2 AAU Saaz hops (0.5 oz. at 4% AA)
 1/8 oz. lightly crushed coriander seed
 1/4 oz. dried Curaco orange peel, shredded
 Belgian witbier yeast slurry (White Labs WLP400 or Wyeast 3944)
 
 Mash  at  163F to start 9 qts water
 152F for 90 mins  
 Sparge w/ 12 qts  at  170F
 Add DME, boil
 Add E. Kent Goldings hops, boil 45 min
 Add Saaz hops, boil 15 min
 Remove from heat, remove hops if possible
 Add coriander and orange peel, steep 30 min
 Cool to 70F add enough water to make 5.25 gal
 Pitch yeast
 Ferment at 65F for 2 weeks
 Rack to secondary cool to 45F for 3-4 weeks
 Prime with DME, bottle and age 3-4 weeks at 45 - 50F
 
 All-Grain Option
 Replace DME with an extra 1.5 lbs. ea. of pale malt and malted wheat
 
 All-Extract Option
 Omit pale and wheat malts, steep flaked grains at 150F for 30 mins
 remove grains, increase DME to 5 lbs
  >>



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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:37:20 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: fining with gelatin

"chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu> asked an oft asked question:

>if you fine with gelatin in the secondary, does it cause problems
>with bottle conditioning?

Surprisingly, and comfortingly, no.  There has always been enough 
left for bottle conditioning, although I do usually be sure to stir a 
little yeast up from the bottom of the secondary when racking to the 
bottling vessel.

The bottles might take a little longer to condition, but no so long 
as to make it a problem.  As I have often posted, I get a yeast layer 
in the bottom of the bottles no thicker than a layer of paint.  You 
hardly need to take care in pouring.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:50:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Egg Nog

Brewers

My father was not a big drinker or a cook, but he was famous among 
friends and family for his egg nog.  It had a kick.  It was an old 
recipe that he modified (probably increased the booze!) from one in a 
magazine ad for Four Roses Blended Bourbon in the 1930's or 40's. 
Straight bourbon is much to be preferred.

Last evening I took a double batch to a potluck party. I made a 
further modification - an inadvertent, serendipitous mistake, that 
made it much better as a casual drinking egg nog.  I used twice the 
proper amount of half and half (resulting in proportionally half the 
eggs, sugar and liquor). Strangely, it seemed still to be well 
balanced. The original one is twice as strong and is a wonderful 
drink, but the flavor of the liquor is more evident and it must be 
drunk with more caution.  More like a cocktail, I guess.  I like them 
both, but I think that the milder one is better suited to casual 
drinking, especially by people who don't like the full flavor of 
whiskey.  And they are both easy enough to make that you'll never buy 
that horrible stuff from the grocery store again.


Harry Renner's Egg Nog

6 eggs, separated
3/4 cup sugar (set aside 1/4 cup)
1 qt. cereal milk [half and half, or one pint each milk and whipping cream]
1 cup straight bourbon
2 oz. Jamaican dark rum

Beat egg whites until stiff, fold or beat in 1/4 cup sugar.  Set 
aside.  Beat egg yolks with 1/2 cup sugar, fold into egg white mix. 
Add cereal milk, bourbon and rum.  Serve topped with grated nutmeg.

The mistake I made was to use a *quart* each of skim milk and 
whipping cream (actually I made a double batch; or was it a 
quadruple?).

Dad always used Myer's rum and Old Forester bourbon, but if you are 
making it full strength and will be able to taste the liquor, better 
bourbon will make a difference.  Two years ago we used Knob Creek 
(~$25) and the difference was remarkable.  Jim Beam Black Label 
(~$15) or Wild Turkey 101 (~$18) would be two other, less expensive, 
but still somewhat premium choices.  Of course, these three are 
higher proof, so drink accordingly.  I suspect there are better 
choices than Myer's rum, too, but it has served us well.

And now an amusing anecdote for your holiday enjoyment:

Scene: a streetcar in Cincinnati, circa 1950.
Characters:  Little four-year-old Jeff and his grandma, returning 
from downtown Christmas shopping, and other passengers.

Jeff, in a loud voice:  "Grandma, don't forget you said that you 
needed to stop and get rummy for the egg noggin!"

Grandma and passengers laugh.

Jeff feels very embarrassed and the memory is seared in his brain, 
even though no one else remembers.

Happy holidays!

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 16:48:52 -0500
From: Jennifer Squires <jas at media.mit.edu>
Subject: confluences & homebrews

Hi Jeff et al-

I'm a little behind on my HBD reading so I just now spotted the
confluence thread.

This homebrewer was part of the team that mapped 42N, 71W a couple of
years ago.  The confluence was embarrassingly easy to get to - it was
actually in the middle of somebody's driveway.  There wasn't any
homebrew consumption on site, but I'm pretty sure I remember some
happening afterwards!

There's a lovely picture of our feet at the spot at
http://www.confluence.org/us/ma/index.html for anyone who'd like to take
a look.  (My feet are on the left).

Cheers-

Jen




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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:02:17 -0800
From: "Steve Guernsey" <flight8341 at home.com>
Subject: Where could I find a PID controller or a schematic for a garage-made controller for a RIMS

	I've scoured scientific supply sites but I either can't find one or am
confused by the literature.  They also look kind of expensive.  Would anyone
be so kind as to point me to a good web page for PID controllers or a
schematic for a home made one?  Where is everyone else getting their PID
controllers?  I got a pump on the way and HERMS is an easy and inexpensive
enough option but...., WTF,  Chicks dig guys who make beer with lots of
gadgets, right?

"I'd malt that!"
Maltboy
Garage Brewing

RIDE FAST, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH.




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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:50:52 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Yum Yum Smokey Bum

Graham Sanders was kind enough to send me home with something special.

I couldn't wait to have a go at Graham's Rauch bier so after returning this
afternoon from a long motorbike ride out to the Wollondilly river, I cracked
her open.

To join me in this sampling was a girlfriend of Jill's, staying for a few
nights. I warned her about the first mouthful (as was cautioned by Graham)
but no ill effects occurred. I can see what is meant in that the "smoke"
flavour is most notable in that first swill but it didn't slow us up at all.
What a beauty!!
I think I could get very addicted to the stuff. This is the first smoked
beer I have ever tried.
Jill's friend rolled over and said "take me baby, I'm in heaven"
Which of course I couldn't. Well, not with Jill around.
(even blow up dummies can get jealous).

I haven't seen the girls go for a beer like this since I knocked them silly
in the billiard room with the rice lager.

Graham you are a nasty obnoxious North Queenslander.
But you sure smoke a mean beer!!

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:54:15 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: RIMS in line filter possibility

I have always felt that the problem of bits of husk inevitably getting past
the false bottom could be solved by something equivalent to a fuel filter in
a car. I was at the local Farm and Fleet and wondered if the parts Banjo
makes for filtering agricultural spraying could be installed in a
recalculating pump line. The part in question is like a small water filter
with a stainless steel 40 mesh cylinder instead of a carbon filter. The
screw on housing is made of black polypropylene, reinforced with fiberglass.
This polymer looks like that used in spring loaded carpenter's clamps with
yellow jaw pads.

The problem would be if the polypropylene or imbedded fiberglass used for
the housing contaminated the flowing wort. I know that these parts are not
sold for commercial food use but that does not mean they can't be adapted
safely. The mesh filtering cylinders are spot welded stainless and are
available as replacement parts. I think they could be used in a home built
housing made from a glass canning jar or could be adapted for in kettle
filtering.

Please advise. I would ask that only those who really know polymer
properties chip in with informed opinions. Ill-informed concern is the basis
for my question.

Bruce



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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:39:10 -0600
From: "Joe Sheets" <jsheets at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Frozen Pils

Help!

I just returned from a week away from home to discover my Chech Pils that i
left in the fidge for secondary had no gas escape when I bled the pressure
valve(in soda keg). When I opened the lid I saw ice floating! I smelled
great but I'm concerned that the yeast has been damaged. This is my first
attempt at lagering. Should I re-pitch some more yeast, or will the yeast
"wake-up" when the temp rises again? (The temp when i first opened the
fridge was 36 deg. Any comments will be appreciated.

Joe



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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:22:50 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Chuck's white powder (no-rinse sanitizer)

It sounds to me like potassium percarbonate.  It's a tamed version of
hydrogen peroxide, and should work well if used according to directions.  I
don't trust my tap water in May-June, and need a no-rinse sanitizer that
time of the year.

I used a version sold as "Aseptox".  My doubts about it are simply that it
came with NO instructions beyond concentration - no time, no temperature.
You don't want peroxides in contact with hop compounds, that's just getting
a head start on oxidation.  Peroxides are great, just not good for the
scientifically ignorant, which is what we all are if we don't get
instructions!

My other problem is that it just didn't seem to dissolve completely.  Not
happy, and I'm now going to try Star San (no affiliation but much
gratitude).

Sean Richens
srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca




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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:14:59 EST
From: RobertS735 at aol.com
Subject: Oat Effect?

Friends of the Brew:
I am the pooster who asked a few weeks ago about the possible cause of an 
extra long fermentation. The facts of that question are not particularly 
relevant to this question, however: In the two batches I mentioned, I added 
about a handful of Oats- with the intention of increasing the mouthfeel, and 
body of the brew.

Now that I am drinking the Pale Ale, with the Oat addition, I can clearly say 
this is one of the best I have ever made- It does have the intended mouth 
feel, and great body, but that leads me to the question...

I was hoping that some of you more experienced brewers could tell me what YOU 
think the addition of a small quantity Oats to a recipie would be? For the 
sake of the question, lets say 1/2 pound or so.

Bob the Beer man



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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:42:04 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Iron Removal

RE Spencer's iron removal method: I have not tried this but it certainly
seems feasible as hypochlorite is a powerful oxidizing agent which
should oxidize any Fe++ (clear water iron) to Fe+++ which forms a gel at
high pH and it is this gel which gets trapped on the filtration medium.
If a bleach solution is used, it will contain a fair amount of lye which
will raise the pH assisting in the gel formation but will add alkalinity
so that there may be a problem with reaching desired mash pH unless the
lye is neutralized. The added chlorine can be removed by activated
carbon, by boiling by reduction to chloride by metabite (campden
tablets) or simply by letting the water stand exposed to the air.
Circulation of the air or active aeration will speed this. On the other
hand, aeration of cleawater iron laden liquor will result in the
oxidation of the iron to Fe+++ and gel formation.




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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:52:48 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: PID

For Dave Howell:

The fine art of selecting proper gains for proportional, integral and
differential is called "tuning" and must be done with the system
"loaded" as closely to the load it will drive in actual operation as
possible. There are various methods for tuning and a process control
book or the Omega catalog are good places to look.



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