HOMEBREW Digest #3500 Mon 11 December 2000

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  Caught the bugger (craftbrewer)
  Oktoberfest ("Casey Cobb")
  primary fermentation...how long? ("chuck duffney")
  re: One more thing on recycling yeast ("Stephen Alexander")
  RE: False Bottoms and PID settings (Nate Wahl)
  I Tracked Him Down ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Hoegaarden clone recipe (MObucho829)
  Re: fining with gelatin (Jeff Renner)
  Egg Nog (Jeff Renner)
  confluences & homebrews (Jennifer Squires)
  Where could I find a PID controller or a schematic for a garage-made controller for a RIMS ("Steve Guernsey")
  Yum Yum Smokey Bum ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  RIMS in line filter possibility ("Bruce Garner")
  Frozen Pils ("Joe Sheets")
  Chuck's white powder (no-rinse sanitizer) ("Sean Richens")
  Oat Effect? (RobertS735)
  Iron Removal ("A. J.")
  PID ("A. J.")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:58:13 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Caught the bugger G'day All Well I can reveal all. Our covert operation in the deep north has been a complete success. mind you it almost failed. Fell over laughing again at your election. This court rules this, another that. Logic has to say that there must be more lawyers per head in the USA than anywhere else in the world. I can see why,. Cant you buggers make up your mind in USA. No wonder some on the HBD are confused. So let me inform you people the events that have lead me to a great day in North Queensland surveillance. Well its all starts with that Phil Yates bragging how he can flitter in and out of North Queensland at will on his broom. Well I couldn't let that rest - no bloody way. The word went out to all my contacts up here. So when my spies at the airport contacted me advising that a pilot by the name of Yates will be arriving today for a short stop-over, and that it could be the guy I'm after, I couldn't miss this chance. A quick background check confirmed my suspensions. Yep he's trying it on again. Not this time mate. So I arrange to with the airline that Phil was needed at the front counter immediately on landing. And as arranged after the flight landed and the plane had spewed out the sheep, out strutted Mr Yates, actually looking a bit worse for whare. Looked like he actually drove the plane for once. yep in goes one packet of bex. Hard life being a pilot. Out he comes to the counter. "SPRUNG" I yell. Well - he took the position ;like a pro (obviously done this before) with a louder yell of "OH SH+T". Suddenly its two bex. Well two wide eyes peeped out under that fancy hat of his. So I flash my Nth Qld Identity Card - "OH F==K - SANDERS" Yep now its three bex. The stuttering starts, "what, how , no, can't be". Well he settles and gives this half baked excuse he was on the wrong flight, and he would have called. Now I'm not falling for this one, no way. I drag him off to the side. "Where's my Carton" . Well that brought on the fourth bex. "Oh I have a rice lager here." Now I suspected it was only good for wiping the windshield, but to try to pass a bottle over with a spray nozzle on the top was a just a bit rich. " you know the drum mate" So I dragged him to the bar. It was like taking a kid to the dentist, feet dragging, protests every step. And this from a man in charge of those flying coffins. Now here's the rub. He tries to buy me a carton of XXXX. "No-No my friend" and I point to the Chimay at the bottom. "a carton of that will be fine, well call it square after that". Well kidney failure was almost guaranteed, one whole box down the gullet. Now he was white as a sheet when he saw me, but the carton of Chimay utterly made him jet white. I would swear even Jill will be surprised when she find ALL his hair is now white. So thats where I left the poor bastard, stuttering something like "So thats God", suffering renal failure, wallet a whole lot lighter, and him having a new found respect of North Queenslanders. I think I left an impression. I checked later to make sure the flight took off allright. Seems Air traffic control kept hearing "I'm out of damned Bex" repeating over and over and over. last I hear the co-pilot had landed the plane and an ambulance was heading to the plane. Shout Graham Sanders Oh I did compensate the poor fella. I still intend to drink the famed rice lager, but I might pour it out of the bottle instead of using the squirter. He also got a Rainforrest Rauch in return for his troubles. I have this feeling this will be the last time I see him. Now I warn Dr Pivo now. Any similar stunt will be met with similar gusto. We have border controls too in case you try it by land. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:18:48 -0800 From: "Casey Cobb" <acez at mindspring.com> Subject: Oktoberfest Hey guys, I undertook the task of making a true lager, fully understanding it was going to be high mantainance, and I have a bit of a problem. First off, I am using the "Son of a fermentation chiller" mentioned in past hbd mailings and I can get my beer down to about 42 degrees, with usually no more than 5 degrees variance. My plan was to brew the oktoberfest, let it ferment for 10 days at 52 degrees, then bring it up to 60 degrees over two days, let it set for a day and rack into a secondary. Then let it set at 40 degrees for two weeks and 35 for another two weeks in a third carboy. This is what I did. I brewed it, let it set and it had an initial fermentation within a day, but it seemed relatively short, with maybe a quarter inch of foam left on the sides. Being the dummy I am, I forgot the put the second peice of the airlock on, but the cap was on so I don't think it hurt anything. I watched it set for the next few days, keeping it around 52 degrees, and after a few days, it started fermenting again. After 15 days, I started taking it up to 60 degrees. No new foam on the surface but you could see it kick out of the airlock about once every 6 seconds or so. After about 17 days from brewing (my original plan was 10) I racked into the secondary, even though I could see it still bubbling. There was no real way to keep it at a steady temp while racking, so it probably got up to maybe 67 degrees. So now its back in the chiller, and I dropped it 5 degrees a day, and its at about 43 degrees now, with no real activity. Did I mess something up? Should I add more yeast? I ask this because it was fermenting pretty good before the racking, and is stagnant now. I guess since I can't get it down to 35, Ill just keep it at 42 or so for about a month. I look forward to you professionals letting me know how bad I messed it up. Thanks in advance, -Casey acez at mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:55:01 -0800 From: "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu> Subject: primary fermentation...how long? so i just got myself a couple glass carboys (thanks to scott from new york, if you're reading this), and now i have the option of a two stage fermentation. i've got my first glass batch in the primary right now. my question is when to rack to the secondary. do i wait for the entire krausen to fall back into the beer? or should i pay most attention to the rate of co2 production (ie. airlock bubbling)? thanks, chuck_d as a side note, how do most people start their racking canes? i fill my hose and as much of the upper part of the cane as possible (it's upside down), then invert the cane to fill it it completely. i seal the hose with my thumb, and put my cane in the beer, then drain the water into a bowl until beer starts and move to my bottling bucket or whatever. is there an easier way? oh, and when i say water i mean that no-rinse sanitizing solution. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 04:56:10 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: One more thing on recycling yeast Among his always excellent posts Glen Pannicke writes ... >However, secondary yeast cakes will have a high number of cells from younger >generations. I don't agree. Yeast can bud about 50 times - that is live 50 generations. In a brewing fermentation the yeast undergo 3 or 4 generations. You will certainly lose some cells to age (those at gen 46+) you will also increase the 'age' of the pitched cells by 3 or 4 generations. The net is that you should have much the same distribution of yeast cell ages before and after fermentation. To say that secondary cakes have more young cells would have to be based on older cells selectively flocculating or dying early after repitching.. If two pitched cells are 40 vs 2 generations old is one more likely to remain in the primary ? I dunno - possible but where's the evidence. Of course if yeast are mishandled they'll remain in the primary, but that's true whether the cell is 2 or 40 generations old when pitched. >As the growth progresses, dissolved wort oxygen and lipids are >consumed which are necessary nutrients to yeast sterol production. LIPIDs are basically any old thing soluble in non-polar solvents with fatty acids and sterols topping our list of interest. FATTY ACIDS(FA) are components of real 'fats'. If hydrogen bonds are maximal, the FA is called SATURATED (SFA). If one or more adjacent carbons share a double bond and the FA is called UNSATURATED (UFA). If there is more than one unsaturation point the FA is POLY-UNSATURATED (PUFA). Most FAs are left in the grist & break, but a significant amount appears in wort. Lucky for brewers yeast consume wort FAs, since UFAs in beer will kill head like mad. Yeast also synthesize FAs, but desaturation of SFAs to UFAs and PUFAs requires free oxygen. The UFAs and particularly PUFAs are important for cell membrane regulation & structure. An interesting factoid is that desaturating a given FA decreases its freezing point. Yeast produce more PUFAs in response to cooler fermentation temps. Also (see below) most PUFAs are produced very early in fermentation, which may be a reason to pitch yeast into fully cooled wort. Sterols ... Think of choleSTEROL, and STEROids wrt STEROLs. These have functions in cell membrane regulation. Yeast can take in wort sterols, but wort doesn't have much, or can synthesize them. All yeast sterols have squalene as a precursor and all require free oxygen to produce sterols from squalene. In a real fermentation there is free oxygen introduced when the wort is aerated, but yeast will consume the free O2 quickly, certainly w/in a couple hours initially. During fermentation introduced O2 will be cleared in perhaps as little as 20 minutes. >Sterols >are required compounds for health yeast cell walls and are split between the >mother and daughter yeast cells when they bud from each other. If there's >no more dissolved oxygen and not enough lipids in the trub for the yeasts to >make more sterols, the sterol content will rapidly diminish in subsequent >generations. Result: younger generation cells having weak cell walls and >are poor performers. Well, yeast can absorb sterols from wort, or make them using oxygen, but just to clarify - yeast cannot make sterols from non-sterol wort lipids. If the mother and daughter cells split the sterol why would the daughter cells be lower in lipid than their mothers ? What is clear is that as anaerobic fermentation proceeds average yeast cell sterol level drops with cell division. >Sterols will not be replenished until you feed your yeasts again with new >wort containing a high dissolved wort oxygen level or a good bit of trub >lipids. So if you plan on only re-using your yeast cake one or possibly >twice, secondary yeasts wouldn't be a bad idea. Heck, just drop the new >wort right onto the old cake and shake it up good to dissolve as much air as >possible. I've done it in a pinch and it works just fine. If you plan on >reusing two or more times however, I'd suggest using your primary cake. Trub is never a great source of sterols - plants just have a lot less and it isn't easily extracted. But here's the interesting twist. During end-phase fermentation, assuming the yeast have hit some growth limit besides carbs, they build up substantial amounts of storage carbohydrates - a dimeric sugar callled trehalose and a large complicated carb called glycogen. They also build up very substantial amounts of squalene - the sterol precursor ! After floccing they aren't dead, they are essentially hibernating and using primarily the storage carbohydrates for energy. What happens in the first couple hours after you hit them with fresh wort ? 1/ Catabolite repression (Crabtree effect) Fresh wort contains 6%-8% glucose as a percent of extract, so a 7P or greater wort will contain greater than 0.4P (0.4%) of glucose and at this level and above pitched cells will undergo catabolite repression. One aspect is that they ferment, tho' they could respire. That's a minor issue. Much more serious is that during initial catabolite repression the yeast will not consume any wort sugars at all ! 2/ The yeast in the first 2 hours consume the vast majority of their glycogen reserves 75-90%. They also consume most of their trehalose reserve, but then build trehalose back up quickly. Glycogen stores aren't rebuilt till after catabolite repression and not fully restored till very late in fermentation. 3/ They consume all the available oxygen in those first 2hrs. And in one study the sterol level rose from 0.1% to 1% and the percentage of UFA increased from 10% to 50% of all FAs So there you have it - for the 1st couple hours after pitching the yeast are just sensing the availability of wort sugar, not consuming it, are using internal reserves and external O2 to make sterol from stored squalene and to make UFAs and PUFAs from SFAs. The cell mass is nearly constant.. There is a direct and strong relationship between loss of glycogen and production of sterol. Low glycogen yeast (as during hours 2-6 or so) will not produce sterols and high glycogen yeast will produce sterol given the presence of oxygen. - -- The practical problem is this. Ideally in brewing the yeast growth limit is the lack of sugar. We want the yeast to ferment vigorously right up until the time the FG is hit. We don't like it when our fermenters bubble slowly for those last few days. Using carbs as the growth limiting factor in brewing means that yeast may not be able to create optimal storage carbo & squalene stores and so when repitched will not be able to create sterols needed for a subsequent vigorous fermentation. The only solution would be to repitch and then aerate further after the catabolite repression phase (about the time the first bubbles push through the airlock). This difficulty comes from the fact that making good beer is different than making healthy yeast and you can't optimize both. I don't know, but suspect that low glycogen reserves may be involved in long lag phases. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 05:36:08 -0500 From: Nate Wahl <cruiser at cros.net> Subject: RE: False Bottoms and PID settings Ladies and Gents! Two things. I use an outlet under my false bottom, basically an elbow welded to the underside of the keg about halfway form center to the edge, then out a hole in the keg skirt. This works well; when I get a bunch of crap under the screen (always), it seems to settle out at the lower center after the vorlauf, away from the outlet, and as someone else mentioned, flow perturbations may bring some of it out. Take a look at some of the construction pics at http://www.cros.net/cruiser/Brewery/nate_herms.html. The site sorely needs updating, but the pics are there showing the screen and outlet. Some of the info is wrong; I now use an RTD probe, and after about 20 batches have fine-tuned the process a lot. I'm fairly satisfied with its performance, and the only stuck mash I ever got was from milling way too fine on a new mill's first run. I also run flow at the minimum to get reasonable ramp rates, no more. There's a vacuum gauge on the tun outlet, but I'm gonna remove it, because except for the said stuck mash, I haven't seen it off the peg lately running the system like this. Bernoulli would be proud! As for PID control, what I've found works well is to use a low Proportional value, a gain of about 1.3 or so; for Integral I'd suggest a 1/3 range setting, and little if any Derivative. This was determined from experience and talking to some of our I&C techs at work. Mind you, I'm measuring grainbed temperature with an adjustable height probe, set about 1/4 the way down in the mash; where your sensor is located can drastically affect how the setup performs. It took a lot of messing around with the tuns full of water to find the right depth; if you're measuring tun outlet temperature, overshooting tendencies because of the delay through the grainbed would necessitate jacking the Proportional down and the Integral and Derivative up, I'd think. If you're looking at heat source outlet, just set the controller up to nail outlet temp just above where you want the grain to end up, I'd think, otherwise the bottom of the mash will never get to temperature. Although it would surely prevent overshooting, you'll go nuts watching the swings form controller action. Measuring inside the grainbed moderates the input signal, IMHO (IMHO on all this stuff!) Hope this helps, Nate (Oogie Wa Wa) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:18:04 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: I Tracked Him Down Whilst the rest of you were puzzling over maps and scratching your heads pondering his whereabouts, I went out and found him. All the way to Townsville in North Queensland I travelled today (just a part of my job of course) and met the elusive Mr Sanders. He really does exist. And he is more awesome than I ever would have imagined. Do you think he didn't give me buggery trying to get out of Townsville without paying my dues? I thought I would slip into town and make a few descreet enquires, but I never got past the bloody airport. There he was, as large as life waiting for me. Crocodile Dundee looks like a bloomin pansy compared to our Mr Sanders. I can see he has wrestled a croc or two in his time. Personally, I feel great pity for SWMBO (though I didn't get to meet her). Humbly I offered him a bottle of my rice lager (which he said he would probably just tip down the sink) and then I handed him my latest creation - the "to die for" peach wheat beer. None of this was enough and in the end it cost me an awful lot of money just to be allowed to leave. I'm going to submit a claim to Pat Babcock as my whole venture was on behalf of the HBD, just to see if Cracker Boy really did exist. I can't afford too many meetings like this!! And if you think this is more than enough for a Baron to endure in one day, hold tight, there is more to come. I get back to the safety of New South Wales to find a curious message on my mobile phone. I have to play it back twice before I understand the heavily accented voice. "My name is Jeff Irvine, I'm in Sydney and will be coming to Burradoo to visit you, please inform your wife". So now I have Doc Pivo arriving on my door step!! Christ! (sorry for the language) What a bloody day! I'd better pack Jill away in the cupboard. I wouldn't want the Doc to discover my marriage is a farce and that I am really only living with a blow up dummy. Now all I need is for Jeff Renner to ring and say he has arrived back at Burradoo train station and wants me to come and pick him up! Or worse still, Ray Kruse may return trying to sell me his version of American democracy! Not to mention another bottle of skunk oil! After all of this, I reckon a beer with Steve Alexander would be better than expected. I think it's me who needs a bex, a cup of tea and a good lie down! I'm even beginning to think the Croatian next door isn't such a bad chap after all. Will Keep You All Informed Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:55:43 EST From: MObucho829 at aol.com Subject: Hoegaarden clone recipe In a message dated 12/7/2000 4:25:26 PM Central Standard Time, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << << Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:24:57 -0600 From: Rick Nelson <Rick.Nelson at iVita.com> Subject: Celis copy receipe... Since this favorite of mine is going away, I'd like to know if anyone can give me a link to a copy receipe... Thanks, Rick >> Matthew O MObucho829 at aol.com In the Nov. 2000 issue of Brew Your Own (the all things Belgian issue) they give a recipe for Hoegaarden Wit 2 lbs. pale malt 2 lbs. malted wheat 1 lb flaked wheat 1 lb flaked oats 2 lbs. unhopped wheat dry malt extract 3 AAU East Kent Goldings hops (0.75 oz. at 4% AA) 2 AAU Saaz hops (0.5 oz. at 4% AA) 1/8 oz. lightly crushed coriander seed 1/4 oz. dried Curaco orange peel, shredded Belgian witbier yeast slurry (White Labs WLP400 or Wyeast 3944) Mash at 163F to start 9 qts water 152F for 90 mins Sparge w/ 12 qts at 170F Add DME, boil Add E. Kent Goldings hops, boil 45 min Add Saaz hops, boil 15 min Remove from heat, remove hops if possible Add coriander and orange peel, steep 30 min Cool to 70F add enough water to make 5.25 gal Pitch yeast Ferment at 65F for 2 weeks Rack to secondary cool to 45F for 3-4 weeks Prime with DME, bottle and age 3-4 weeks at 45 - 50F All-Grain Option Replace DME with an extra 1.5 lbs. ea. of pale malt and malted wheat All-Extract Option Omit pale and wheat malts, steep flaked grains at 150F for 30 mins remove grains, increase DME to 5 lbs >> Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:37:20 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: fining with gelatin "chuck duffney" <cduffney at mail.wesleyan.edu> asked an oft asked question: >if you fine with gelatin in the secondary, does it cause problems >with bottle conditioning? Surprisingly, and comfortingly, no. There has always been enough left for bottle conditioning, although I do usually be sure to stir a little yeast up from the bottom of the secondary when racking to the bottling vessel. The bottles might take a little longer to condition, but no so long as to make it a problem. As I have often posted, I get a yeast layer in the bottom of the bottles no thicker than a layer of paint. You hardly need to take care in pouring. Jeff - -- -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:50:06 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Egg Nog Brewers My father was not a big drinker or a cook, but he was famous among friends and family for his egg nog. It had a kick. It was an old recipe that he modified (probably increased the booze!) from one in a magazine ad for Four Roses Blended Bourbon in the 1930's or 40's. Straight bourbon is much to be preferred. Last evening I took a double batch to a potluck party. I made a further modification - an inadvertent, serendipitous mistake, that made it much better as a casual drinking egg nog. I used twice the proper amount of half and half (resulting in proportionally half the eggs, sugar and liquor). Strangely, it seemed still to be well balanced. The original one is twice as strong and is a wonderful drink, but the flavor of the liquor is more evident and it must be drunk with more caution. More like a cocktail, I guess. I like them both, but I think that the milder one is better suited to casual drinking, especially by people who don't like the full flavor of whiskey. And they are both easy enough to make that you'll never buy that horrible stuff from the grocery store again. Harry Renner's Egg Nog 6 eggs, separated 3/4 cup sugar (set aside 1/4 cup) 1 qt. cereal milk [half and half, or one pint each milk and whipping cream] 1 cup straight bourbon 2 oz. Jamaican dark rum Beat egg whites until stiff, fold or beat in 1/4 cup sugar. Set aside. Beat egg yolks with 1/2 cup sugar, fold into egg white mix. Add cereal milk, bourbon and rum. Serve topped with grated nutmeg. The mistake I made was to use a *quart* each of skim milk and whipping cream (actually I made a double batch; or was it a quadruple?). Dad always used Myer's rum and Old Forester bourbon, but if you are making it full strength and will be able to taste the liquor, better bourbon will make a difference. Two years ago we used Knob Creek (~$25) and the difference was remarkable. Jim Beam Black Label (~$15) or Wild Turkey 101 (~$18) would be two other, less expensive, but still somewhat premium choices. Of course, these three are higher proof, so drink accordingly. I suspect there are better choices than Myer's rum, too, but it has served us well. And now an amusing anecdote for your holiday enjoyment: Scene: a streetcar in Cincinnati, circa 1950. Characters: Little four-year-old Jeff and his grandma, returning from downtown Christmas shopping, and other passengers. Jeff, in a loud voice: "Grandma, don't forget you said that you needed to stop and get rummy for the egg noggin!" Grandma and passengers laugh. Jeff feels very embarrassed and the memory is seared in his brain, even though no one else remembers. Happy holidays! Jeff - -- -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 16:48:52 -0500 From: Jennifer Squires <jas at media.mit.edu> Subject: confluences & homebrews Hi Jeff et al- I'm a little behind on my HBD reading so I just now spotted the confluence thread. This homebrewer was part of the team that mapped 42N, 71W a couple of years ago. The confluence was embarrassingly easy to get to - it was actually in the middle of somebody's driveway. There wasn't any homebrew consumption on site, but I'm pretty sure I remember some happening afterwards! There's a lovely picture of our feet at the spot at http://www.confluence.org/us/ma/index.html for anyone who'd like to take a look. (My feet are on the left). Cheers- Jen Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:02:17 -0800 From: "Steve Guernsey" <flight8341 at home.com> Subject: Where could I find a PID controller or a schematic for a garage-made controller for a RIMS I've scoured scientific supply sites but I either can't find one or am confused by the literature. They also look kind of expensive. Would anyone be so kind as to point me to a good web page for PID controllers or a schematic for a home made one? Where is everyone else getting their PID controllers? I got a pump on the way and HERMS is an easy and inexpensive enough option but...., WTF, Chicks dig guys who make beer with lots of gadgets, right? "I'd malt that!" Maltboy Garage Brewing RIDE FAST, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:50:52 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Yum Yum Smokey Bum Graham Sanders was kind enough to send me home with something special. I couldn't wait to have a go at Graham's Rauch bier so after returning this afternoon from a long motorbike ride out to the Wollondilly river, I cracked her open. To join me in this sampling was a girlfriend of Jill's, staying for a few nights. I warned her about the first mouthful (as was cautioned by Graham) but no ill effects occurred. I can see what is meant in that the "smoke" flavour is most notable in that first swill but it didn't slow us up at all. What a beauty!! I think I could get very addicted to the stuff. This is the first smoked beer I have ever tried. Jill's friend rolled over and said "take me baby, I'm in heaven" Which of course I couldn't. Well, not with Jill around. (even blow up dummies can get jealous). I haven't seen the girls go for a beer like this since I knocked them silly in the billiard room with the rice lager. Graham you are a nasty obnoxious North Queenslander. But you sure smoke a mean beer!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:54:15 -0600 From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com> Subject: RIMS in line filter possibility I have always felt that the problem of bits of husk inevitably getting past the false bottom could be solved by something equivalent to a fuel filter in a car. I was at the local Farm and Fleet and wondered if the parts Banjo makes for filtering agricultural spraying could be installed in a recalculating pump line. The part in question is like a small water filter with a stainless steel 40 mesh cylinder instead of a carbon filter. The screw on housing is made of black polypropylene, reinforced with fiberglass. This polymer looks like that used in spring loaded carpenter's clamps with yellow jaw pads. The problem would be if the polypropylene or imbedded fiberglass used for the housing contaminated the flowing wort. I know that these parts are not sold for commercial food use but that does not mean they can't be adapted safely. The mesh filtering cylinders are spot welded stainless and are available as replacement parts. I think they could be used in a home built housing made from a glass canning jar or could be adapted for in kettle filtering. Please advise. I would ask that only those who really know polymer properties chip in with informed opinions. Ill-informed concern is the basis for my question. Bruce Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:39:10 -0600 From: "Joe Sheets" <jsheets at nc.rr.com> Subject: Frozen Pils Help! I just returned from a week away from home to discover my Chech Pils that i left in the fidge for secondary had no gas escape when I bled the pressure valve(in soda keg). When I opened the lid I saw ice floating! I smelled great but I'm concerned that the yeast has been damaged. This is my first attempt at lagering. Should I re-pitch some more yeast, or will the yeast "wake-up" when the temp rises again? (The temp when i first opened the fridge was 36 deg. Any comments will be appreciated. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:22:50 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Chuck's white powder (no-rinse sanitizer) It sounds to me like potassium percarbonate. It's a tamed version of hydrogen peroxide, and should work well if used according to directions. I don't trust my tap water in May-June, and need a no-rinse sanitizer that time of the year. I used a version sold as "Aseptox". My doubts about it are simply that it came with NO instructions beyond concentration - no time, no temperature. You don't want peroxides in contact with hop compounds, that's just getting a head start on oxidation. Peroxides are great, just not good for the scientifically ignorant, which is what we all are if we don't get instructions! My other problem is that it just didn't seem to dissolve completely. Not happy, and I'm now going to try Star San (no affiliation but much gratitude). Sean Richens srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:14:59 EST From: RobertS735 at aol.com Subject: Oat Effect? Friends of the Brew: I am the pooster who asked a few weeks ago about the possible cause of an extra long fermentation. The facts of that question are not particularly relevant to this question, however: In the two batches I mentioned, I added about a handful of Oats- with the intention of increasing the mouthfeel, and body of the brew. Now that I am drinking the Pale Ale, with the Oat addition, I can clearly say this is one of the best I have ever made- It does have the intended mouth feel, and great body, but that leads me to the question... I was hoping that some of you more experienced brewers could tell me what YOU think the addition of a small quantity Oats to a recipie would be? For the sake of the question, lets say 1/2 pound or so. Bob the Beer man Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:42:04 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Iron Removal RE Spencer's iron removal method: I have not tried this but it certainly seems feasible as hypochlorite is a powerful oxidizing agent which should oxidize any Fe++ (clear water iron) to Fe+++ which forms a gel at high pH and it is this gel which gets trapped on the filtration medium. If a bleach solution is used, it will contain a fair amount of lye which will raise the pH assisting in the gel formation but will add alkalinity so that there may be a problem with reaching desired mash pH unless the lye is neutralized. The added chlorine can be removed by activated carbon, by boiling by reduction to chloride by metabite (campden tablets) or simply by letting the water stand exposed to the air. Circulation of the air or active aeration will speed this. On the other hand, aeration of cleawater iron laden liquor will result in the oxidation of the iron to Fe+++ and gel formation. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:52:48 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: PID For Dave Howell: The fine art of selecting proper gains for proportional, integral and differential is called "tuning" and must be done with the system "loaded" as closely to the load it will drive in actual operation as possible. There are various methods for tuning and a process control book or the Omega catalog are good places to look. Return to table of contents
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