HOMEBREW Digest #3508 Wed 20 December 2000

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  liquid malt extract density (Jim Wilson)
  quick hit the page down button.... (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  OT: Response to help. ("Adrian Levi")
  sake effect; cleaning corny kegs (ensmingr)
  Janitors are grouse, replies (craftbrewer)
  Aeration of Yeast Starters (Tony Barnsley)
  Wimpy Woosey 'Girly' fruit Flavoured wheat beers (Tony Barnsley)
  Comrade - Zymurgy (kreinhar)
  Re: The Mad Scientist =>The Mad Texan (james r layton)
  The dreaded "acceptable" content debate (David Harsh)
  Graham's contaminant ("Alan Meeker")
  Fwd: Top Cropping ("Darryl Newbury")
  Regarding the definition of "hobby" ("Peed, John")
  Fridge conversion (Beth Fuchs)
  Re: bacteria in carbon filters ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Old Yeast (John Adsit)
  Ozonation (SGWESST)
  Mad Science and Art ("Jim Bermingham")
  My Freezer is Excreting! ("Drew Avis")
  dye hopping (Charles Preston)
  Huhwha? (Some Guy)
  Brew Books and Equivalences for 1970's recipies ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  Skunky Pilsner Urquell / Temperature controller ("Connor, Eric")
  Re: bacteria in carbon filters (Martin_Brungard)
  content ("Stephen Alexander")
  more chilling thoughts ("Dr. Pivo")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:21:56 -0800 From: Jim Wilson <jim.wilson at home.net> Subject: liquid malt extract density I have some recipes that call for so many quarts of LME. Does anyone know the density of LME so I can convert quarts to pounds? o \o __o /\ / `\ <> `\ `> `\ > (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:31:27 +1100 (EST) From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com> Subject: quick hit the page down button.... Phil and Graham, You both must take it easy on the xenophobes that inhabit the HBD. Unfortunately the cutltural imperialism we are so used to swallowing is a task that these folks are unable to handle once the tables are turned. Afterall, remember we must spell "colour" color, dont you know! So pls Pat, as this post is absolutely non-beer related (such as the political based posts of late and crap about drinking age) pls make sure this gets posted....in bold. I must say, that over the last 6 months the HBD has declined to an overly technical, intolerant bore with little regard for the spirit of brew-ship and helping fellow brewers out. I think that you three should be ashamed of yourself for not only enjoying yourselves, and brewing beer quite simply, but actually being nice to each other. shame shame shame! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:49:31 +1000 From: "Adrian Levi" <adrian at lefty.dyndns.org> Subject: OT: Response to help. Thanks to all who replied with e-mails giving me pointers, Now I get to go and try them all out :-) Wasn't expecting the volume of responses though. Adrian Levi (note email change.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:35:05 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: sake effect; cleaning corny kegs 1. An interesting observation: My wife and I recently shared half a bottle of Hakusan sake that we picked up while visiting their sakery in the Napa Valley [see: http://www.hakusan.com/ ]. I (albeit very naive about sake) enjoyed it, but my wife became very flushed and warm after drinking only about 4 oz. What's going on? She has never had this response when drinking wine or beer and eats lots of rice with no such effect. I recall that some people (~1/2 of Asians and ~1/3 of South American Indians) develop a very similar reaction when drinking any alcohol because they are deficient in aldehyde dehydrogenase I (ALDH-I) and consequently accumulate acetaldehyde when they drink [see: Goedde & Agarwal, 1989, Alcoholism. Biochemical and Genetic Aspects. Pergamon, NY.] EtOH ------> Acetaldehyde ------> Acetate ------> ... ADH ALDH Any connection here? Anyone have an explanation? 2. I keg my beer in ball lock kegs. Lately, I've noticed buildup of "scale" (beerstone/calcium oxalate?) that is difficult to scub off since I cannot fit my arm into the keg opening. Boiling soapy water doesn't work and neither does iodophor. I've also tried using vinegar to no avail. Can anyone suggest a simple, safe, and inexpensive method that uses readily available chemicals? TIA for your help. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:12:53 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Janitors are grouse, replies G'day All Well stone the crows cobbers. I have been utterly left gutted by what has happened to me. Now I can hear the clap-trap now "what the heck is he about". Well after hearing the utter de-hiding, mauling, and overall garotting of those janitors from both Steve and Phil, (and Leland the latest) you picture these chaps not being out of place with noted leaders like dear Sadam H. well let me be taken by a croc when I see this........ "<expletive> this is better than Hoegaarden" I think he's just sucking up to the boss.......... and as you know, sometimes I can add second meanings to my posts as well, (and can sometimes go over the top) - so when I see that things missing as well. Well I even more shocked , so much that I talk to SWMBO. "YOU KNOW, PAT AND KARL ARE REAL FAIR DINKUM" It takes little to gain my respect, (sorry guys, just cant past that chapter in the book 'How to crawl on your belly and look civilised', but I guess I will actually have to try harder to clean my act up. Sorry to the rest of you, but I feel i owe it to my new mates. So I have called my security officer. Mortein has been issued to all guards. Its just the right strength. If that cockroach tries to sneak in, well one spray and I should have enough time to get there to see the last twitch of that bastards content free head. And Dr P is covered. We have staked Fosters bloated tourists at regular intervals for his next body surfing trip. True he will take great delight popping them off, but will expunge Dr Pivo at the same breath. True in the content free world (and brain it seems) he has become accustomed to he asks >>>>Subject: Aussie Microbiologists in the Loop? I was at a micro where the brewer cultivates yeast from slants. The brewer was bemoaning the fact, that platinum loops seem not to be available anymore.<<< And whats wrong with what all Nth Qlders use, Stainless Steel, I may ask Now there were sooo many things lately that begged my input. The talk about beer v s+x education would have given me hugh scope to leave the dingo fence gate open, but I feel I owe one to my new mates. Even this one will be left alone From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com> Subject: Long time no hear. I can't start brewing again until after Christmas, because work is got me bent over the desk, but I am thinking 2 more extract batches (I have the ingredients), then I am going all-grain. I am as excited as Graham's SWMBO is gonna be tonight after I make my adjustments.<<<< The mind does wonder thou. But all of you lot out there. Dont pity Phil, He deserves it, dont pity Dr Pivo, nothing there anyway, dont pity me, I look down on you, No, pity poor Jim. From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: The Mad Scientiest<<<< After this brave effort I fear he will not survive to the weekend. Wading into this debate makes about enough sense as someone kissing a cane toad But to be game to say this >>>brewing is not a hobby for you according to Webster's U.S. English Dictionary. Webster description of hobby: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in for relaxation. Just my 2 cents worth,<<<< Well very wise words, worthy of at least a few dollars. Spend it phoning me if you need a shoulder to cry on. So I must go, as I still am in shock on developments on the HBD. Worse still, the humour Index has climbed to 5.7. I would do something about it, but I can barely type this. Shout Graham Sanders Oh its good to see Phil has picked up some good traits from the North. I have influenced the man in the short time I kicked him out. From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Can't You Just Feel The Serenity?<<<< Substitute Nth Qld for Burradoo and you would not know the difference Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:17:05 -0000 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Aeration of Yeast Starters Firstly Thanks to all those who replied to my original post about aerating my yeast starters. (Not You Baron! :> ) Perhaps I should have been clearer, My normal procedure is to step up to around the 20L mark, then crash chill, decant of the liquid, and pitch the slurry. What I want to achieve is to grow enough yeast (not make beer) to pitch the same quantity of slurry without that massive final step. I like the idea of anti foam agents, but will probably cobble together some sort of a magnet on a motor shaft, to move the media around. (The next bit is contentless so only really applies to Aussies, Swedes, and any other person with a sense of humour) Now as to the Screaming Bolshy Baron of Burradoo (Which I still think could be a s*xual Offence! ) > YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING FANCY FOR YEAST STARTERS!! Absolutely agreed milord. (You didn't expect that did you?). I've managed for years with a 0ne pint (UK) milk bottle, my lag times were in the order of 36-48 hours. Over the last three years I have changed to a 1 litre starter, with shorter lag times, 4 litre starter, with lags in the 24 hour range. And a subsequent improvement in the final product. With all of these methods I'm really only getting a maximum of 150 ml of yeast slurry, which is just about the right level for pitching 50L of ales. The final step to 20 litres gives me around 300ml. So I'm not getting optimum growth in my yeast starters, and probably not pitching healthiest yeast. All I want to do is see if oxygen replenishment in the starter medium results in an improvement in my beer. All it costs was 1.75Ukp for a Disposable HEPA filter and 8.99ukp for an air pump which I can use in the kiddies aquarium later on. > please don't come in here trying to convince practical, sensible and > humorous brewers that all this crap is necessary! Absolutely not, If what I do makes a difference to my beer using my equipment, in my environment, than that's my good luck. There's no way that I will say that it will work for you, Pivo, or even Steve. After all A bucket of malted grain and water left in a warm place will turn into alcohol (and other stuff), which is the way beor used to be made (way back when). Its a good job someone found a more reliable way AND TOLD OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT IT! I for one would probably be teetotal If they hadn't :> Donning the white asbestos coat and running for cover before Marilyn gets over here ;-> > Sorry about the bandwidth LOL! ROTFL! No you're not! come on admit it! - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:36:37 -0000 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Wimpy Woosey 'Girly' fruit Flavoured wheat beers And another thing milord. I remember the last time I took your advice ( ;-'> ), I still have a corny full of wheat beer that under your urging I added our surplus strawberries to. How can anyone drink this stuff? Even more actually LIKE IT! Anyone like some 18 month old Strawberry Wheat Beer? Thing that amazes me is its still sound, Even the bacteria around here don't like it :> - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK Where men are men and beer tastes like . . . . Well Beer really (and sheep are scared) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:12:24 -0500 From: kreinhar at clarksteel.com Subject: Comrade - Zymurgy I'm within 30 days of buying a Brew Comrade from Yvon at Stainless Seel Specialties, as seen in Zymurgy. First, does anyone have any experience with this system? I'm also wondering about the actual transaction - unit ships to me after check clears, what is the prudent way to protect oneself when sending this kind of money into Canada? Private email is fine. Thanks Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:26:16 -0600 From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com> Subject: Re: The Mad Scientist =>The Mad Texan Jim Bermingham, fellow Texan, jumped into the ongoing sniping contest between Steve Alexander and the fun bunch. It ain't my fight, but I'd like everyone to know that I appreciate Steve's contributions to this forum. I've been reading this digest for several years. I've even read all of the old issues in the archives. This latest tiff is just a variation of the old art vs. science argument that comes up every once in a while. It will pass. It will return. Pretty boring argument after a while, especially when it goes beyond the philosophical and starts getting personal. As far as flame wars go, this is hardly a spark compared to the weeks preceding the meltdown when the AHA was administering the digest. That was a venomous period. Anyone remember old John Wylie "Coyote"? There was a guy that had fun with his brewing and it carried over in his posts. I don't recall that he ever criticized anyone's posts for lack of humor or for being overly technical. Folks come and go from this forum. You don't hear much from some of the great technical contributors of the past. Jim Busch, for one, taught me more in a few weeks of reading this digest than I have learned before or since. I still read this digest in the hope that I might pick up a neat equipment idea, a new technique, or a new insight into what goes on between the plowed field and a great glass of beer. I still get that from time to time, that's why I still read HBD. I can get comedy on TV but I come here for brewing education. I'm sure that others enjoy reading the silly stuff and that is fine by me. And yes, I really do enjoy this hobby. My page down key works just fine. I use it fairly often and it doesn't bother me a bit to do so. I read everyone's posts at first. After a while I can tell if they are likely to contribute anything of interest to me. As for who should post here, I'll leave that to the janitors. Thanks, Pat. Thanks, Karl. You do good work. Jim Layton Howe, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:36:40 -0500 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: The dreaded "acceptable" content debate Yo- I hate to enter this, but I tend to page down any time I see posts from Sweden, Australia or Mr. Alexander. Why? The technical posts don't tell things I don't already know. I took plenty of biochem during my school days and even remember some of it. The Australian posts usually don't talk about homebrewing, just lots of inside humor (to some, apparently). And as far as docpivo goes, I ignore anybody who doesn't sign his real name, whether from Jeff Irvine or his doppelganger. As far as a poll to see what should be allowed, be careful what you ask for. I'll defend anybody's right to post what I consider a waste of bandwidth as long as they'll defend my right to use my page down key when I feel like it. Just to make this beer related, here's some biochem content for you: A substrate changed by an enzyme Initially in unit time Varies, if not in excess With substrate concentration, [S] This relationship was first contrived As Briggs and Haldane first derived And if we choose a steady state Velocity and [S] relate (to the tune of 'O Tannenbaum'; authored by someone else with several more verses) Jim Bermingham- I'll argue whether a scientist can enjoy the technical side of brewing and still call it a hobby. Personally, if you do it in your free time, I think its a hobby. Think about it - a professional brewmaster can brew at home and call it a hobby, can't he? Too many people forget that the beauty of homebrewing is that you can get into all kinds of different issues: agriculture, anthropology, process engineering, welding, biochemistry, microbiology, electronics and automation, history... The list is endless. The best part is that you can ignore the parts that don't interest you- and get into as much detail as you want in the parts that do. As hobbyists, homebrewers are unique in that we admit our obsession. Someone with a whole room donated to toy trains will insist its just relaxation. But we know better! Just a reminder that diverse views are acceptable. Dave Harsh Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:23:43 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu> Subject: Graham's contaminant Graham writes: "Both plates grew nicely. Now there are no real single colonies (didn't want that, wanted more yeast mass) and they grew for two days nice and white in colour. But bugger me if one has turned bright orange. No fur, fuzzy edges etc, just bright orange." I think now you see that you /did/ want single colonies (or at least you should have). This is usually the primary reason for plating out the yeast - to isolate pure single colonies that you can then use to initiate a larger, usually liquid, culture. If it was more yeast mass you wanted then liquid is the way to go anyway as it is more efficient. The orange growth is either a contaminant (bacterial or other) or a mutant, but in either case should be avoided. "Could you isolate the yeast away from a contaminated sample like that by continuously plating of young isolated colonies. Its got me real curious." Yes, another good use of plating is to isolate pure yeast colonies away from contaminating organisms. You can do this either by streaking or by dilution plating. e-mail me if you want the details... -Alan Meeker Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:39:03 -0500 From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com> Subject: Fwd: Top Cropping Greetings folks, I'm planning on brewing with Whitelabs EastCoast yeast a couple of times over the holidays and its reputed to be a very good top cropper. The problem is, I've only ever bottomed cropped yeast. Does anybody have useful advice on proper techniques for top cropping? Thanks Darryl Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:17:07 -0500 From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> Subject: Regarding the definition of "hobby" I always liked Dave Barry's comment, something to the effect of: "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." Thanks to all for the advice on hop flavor. I have achieved it, though I now have to back up and be a little more methodical to compare the various ways of getting there. I added an ounce of hops to the mash, then several additions late in the boil. That sure did the trick. I do intend to specifically compare mash hopping, full wort hopping and late-boil-addition hopping to see which I prefer. For now though, I'm just happy to have achieved that flavor. It sure does wonders for a beer! Thanks again. John ___________________________ John Peed Applications Engineer Elo TouchSystems, Inc. 412 North Cedar Bluff Rd Suite 402 Knoxville, TN 37923 Tel: (865) 694 1735 Fax: (865) 694 1731 E-Mail: jpeed at elotouch.com www.elotouch.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:26:46 -0700 From: Beth Fuchs <bfuchs at chtm.unm.edu> Subject: Fridge conversion Hello all- I know that this has been discussed before, but I'm having problems with web page access right now so can't search the archives. Forgive me for the repeated questions, but this will be something good for all the newbies to hear anyway. I have a beer fridge in my garage. My beer hating husband, as a gift for me, is preparing to run lines through the side of the beer fridge, through the wall of the house into the kitchen where we will put taps on the wall. Are there any major pitfalls he should be aware of? He would like to do this between Christmas and New Years so I can use them for my annual New Year's Eve party. Thanks in advance. Beth Fuchs Research Engineer Center for High Technology Materials University of New Mexico 1313 Goddard SE Albuquerque, NM 87106 (505) 272-7844 office (505) 272-7801 fax bfuchs at chtm.unm.edu e-mail http://www.chtm.unm.edu web page Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:44:41 -0500 From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu> Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters Greetings and salutations fellow fermentors, Richard wrote: "When such water is held quiescent, such as overnight in a carbon filter, in an RO storage tank, or even in household plumbing, these heterotrophic plate count (HPC) organisms typically multiply to 1,000 to 10,000 or more colony-forming units per milliliter." Martin followed: "they are still going to spoil your wort. And they are multiplying in these pieces of equipment. Thank you Richard, this is just the info we all need to support the fact that we MUST boil all water added to our brewing endeavors." Note that in the above, I prefer to use the voice of a level headed scientist type when reading Richard's words, and a willy-nilly old-wife-relating-a-passed-down-blown-out-of-proportion-myth voice when reading Martin's. The difference is about 3 octaves. It's the same voice I use when reading an aluminum-should-never-be-used-for-brewing thread. Anyway, after reading Richard's initial posting I was at first concerned. 10,000 per mL sounds like a lot. Then I checked out Danstar's FAQ website: http://www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate According to Danstar, their dry yeast packets contain 20 billion cells/g and they're 5 g packs, so 100 billion cells. In 23 L or 23,000 mL, thats 4.3 million/mL if you get 100% survival. Assuming poor storage (room temperature for a year) and no rehydration, you'll end up with 60% killed according to Danstar, that's still 1.7 million yeast/mL. 1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a whole lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment hostile to bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to outcompete bacteria for food! Unfortunately, the only quote I can think of to end this on is, "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Cheers! Todd Snyder Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:01:46 -0700 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Old Yeast "If you love your yeasties, set them free." --Sting When my yeast are done with their job, I set them free. I add them to the compost pile, where they are free to forage about in search of food, pass the time with various microbes, lie dormant, or do whatever yeast prefer to do in the wild. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:39:05 EST From: SGWESST at aol.com Subject: Ozonation Our city is the first in Texas to change from chlorine water treatment to ozonation.Does anyone know what if any effect this will have on our brew water preparation? Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:01:47 -0600 From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Mad Science and Art Rick Magnan sent an e-mail to me telling me he enjoyed the fun part of brewing as well as the scientific part. I agree, "Fun & Good Beer" is a lot of what it is all about. The back and forth battering, and the comradery with other brewers is also what it is about. Phil does have the art of rambling, but he also has good input to the digest. It may not be scientific but it remains good input. That's why I say you don't have to be a scientist to brew good beer or have fun brewing. Too often when someone starts out brewing their own beer they want to make every type of beer known to mankind. They want to make the British Browns, Bitters, Sessions, Stouts and Porters. They try to make the Belgians, the Scottish Ales and German Ales. Then they turn to the Lagers. A great deal of the time when beginners do this, they don't make very good beers. They either get disappointed and quit the hobby or listen to someone like Steve who says that good beer can only be achieved by good science. Then they try science to correct the faults. The only science you need is how to correct your water for the type of beer you are brewing. Send a sample of your water off to get analyzed and go from there. Brewing good beer is simple. Limit yourself to 2 - 3 types of beers and master these. You need to be consistent. A particular beer should taste the same each time you make it. Time after time after time. After you master these beers you can deviate from your recipe. Take your basic wheat beer. You can alter your pitching rate, or your fermenting temp. and get a different tasting beer. You can add peaches, berries or cherries and have different beers. Add honey or molasses, use some toasted or roasted grain. All of these things will change the taste of your beer, but, keep the same basic recipe and keep good records. Good records are the key to reproducing beer. Don't cheat on these records by writing that your extraction points were better than they were, you sparged slower than you did or you didn't add hops when you did. This isn't science, it isn't art. It is mastering 3 basic beers, keeping good records and playing "what if" by substituting ingredients one at a time and recording the results. To say you can only make good beer if you use science just isn't true. Now if you enjoy doing the science thing...Go for it. Happy Holidays, Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:47:17 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: My Freezer is Excreting! Season's Greetings, fellow brewers! Thanks to those who shared their rodent brewing tips and tricks - I think I can use the mousetrap carboy to safely lager my bock with enough washing and sanitizing. My new slogan is "rodentbock, isn't it time you got a little tail?" I'm sure Graham Sanders would like it. On to the Freezenator. I keep a cloth handy to the freezer to wipe up any beer drops & spills, as well as condensation, in an attempt to keep the Black Mold at bay. I was trying to wipe up what I thought was some spilled beer, but it was *way* stickier. I realized it was some sort of brownish liquid goo that's seeping through a seam. The seam is between what looks like a housing (for the compressor?) and the wall of the freezer - it's a rounded protrusion in one corner on which I sit yeast starters. What is this stuff? Is there something I can do to stop the excretion? Fridge Guy, can you help??? Cheers! Drew Avis - Brewing Mausebock in the swamps of Eastern Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:24:43 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Preston <cp1811 at yahoo.com> Subject: dye hopping That's right, I said DYE hopping. Worked this way: took a nylon stocking (wife's) boiled it about 4 times to remove what I thought was all the dye. Put a plug of Saaz in the stocking and placed it in a keg of Cap. I also took 2 plugs of EKG and put it the stocking (not the crotch area) placed it a pale ale. Later on I can taste some remaining dye. So my advice is either use a fine mesh bag, or if you use a nylon stocking boil the dye completely out. What kind of thing do any of you use for the 'bag' when dry hopping? Especially if you're using pellets? BTW, the beer is still decent, but not what we're shooting for. I don't particularly detect any great improvement over late hop additions. Charlie in Mansfield, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:05:51 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Huhwha? Greetings, Beerlings? Take me to your lager... What's a fair dinkum? Sounds like something to do with one's urinary tract. And isn't a grousse a game bird? So the Janitors are game birds with something wrong in their urinary tracts? I just don't get it... (We know, Pat. And you never will...) - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:25:05 -0400 From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca> Subject: Brew Books and Equivalences for 1970's recipies I was looking through David Line's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" from 1978 and I realized that it provides a picture of late 1970's beers from the perspective of an experienced supper and brewer. I suppose some of the beers he describes may no longer exist. First, are there other recipie books from other eras which set a picture of the beers of the day? [I am aware from the historical brewing news groups of texts from 1700 or so back to the puddle full of grain 12654 BC.] I was thinking more of book on contemporary style copying from a few decades before Dave Line, say 1910's or 1880's. Also, Dave Line uses saccharin where I would imagine lactose would be preferred. Any idea of how I might establish the equiivalence in lactose of 5 saccharin tablets? Alan McLeod PEI Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:30:30 -0600 From: "Connor, Eric" <EConnor at SedgwickCMS.com> Subject: Skunky Pilsner Urquell / Temperature controller A few months back I purchased a six-pack of PU and upon opening the first bottle I was greeted by the distinct aroma of skunk. Not wanting to run the remainder of the bottles back to the store, I decided to attempt to "reform" the five remaining bottles. I remember reading (could have been dreaming) that if you kept a light struck beer cold and out of the light, the skunk would go away. So, I placed the five bottles in the back lower shelf of the refrigerator and every few weeks open one. Well, I can now report that after more than two months of "de-skunking" efforts, the beer still smelled and tasted like skunk. Next time I'll take it back. Also now I purchase in twelve pack that are mostly sealed to light. Anyone else ever hear of a way to de- skunk beer? I also would like to say that I started craft brewing at home on 1/1/00 with equipment my wife purchased for me as a Christmas present. After brewing 15 times in 20 weekends she was wondering what she was could have been thinking about when she bought it. I moved on to whole grain after I did a partial mash and tasted a great improvement over extracts. So I bought a JSP mill Gott coolers and then "had" to go to kegging in cornies. SHMBO was no longer amused. The one thing that saved me was that I had a full kitchen in the basement so I could keep the smell and mess down there. Then I ran into a problem as the floor of this old house was wood over a rough poured concrete and a spot in the kitchen was rotting through. When I went to pull up that section of the floor, I found all the underlayment was rotted. There were two other rooms in the basement that also had wooden floors, so I decided to pull them up at the same time. Well one thing led to another and I etc). I intended to have concrete poured in the fall but could not get a contractor to do it because they had outside work that was more profitable. Now that its winter (Chicago area) The price of concrete goes so high that its to expensive to do now. When things are done I'll have a very nice basement brewery. Because I have not been able to brew for months, SWMBO was feeling sorry for me and allowed me to purchase a chest freezer, so when I am up and running again I could do real lagers. After all that, here's the question. I would like to get a temperature controller that is programmable so I can set it all at once to gradually lower the temps at specific times. Any information would be appreciated. Eric Edge of Legal Basement Brewery Forest Park, just west of Chicago Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:04:29 -0500 From: Martin_Brungard at urscorp.com Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters Todd Snyder made a good point with his post regarding bacteria that I've excerpted below: "1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a whole lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment hostile to bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to outcompete bacteria for food!" I'll bet that we all agree that pitching a large population of yeast is a very good defense to microbial infection. I agree that the pitching level quoted above is great, outnumbering the bacteria by a large margin. But the real problem is that some bacteria and other microbes can still survive and thrive even when the yeast have done their part to make the environment generally inhospitable to others. I estimate that many of our 'casual' microbial infections only have several thousand or million cells. You know...a few critters on dust particles, sticking your finger in the wort, that drop of sweat falling off your brow...etc. I am pretty sure that is why we generally don't have more infection problems than we do. But in the case of a contaminated water filter, we could be adding a much higher cell count to the wort when we add non-sterile water. Combine this with the fact that there are still sugars and other components of wort that yeast cannot or do not consume. A good population of microbes can still survive and thrive on these dregs, ultimately spoiling the beer. Todd, I agree that most of us don't have an infection problem and we can "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!", but we should be armed with the decent knowledge of the risks of not using adequate precautions. I still say that the simple step of boiling all water added to wort is prudent. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:28:26 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: content Charles Babbage held organ grinders in low esteen, but he gave up his disagreements when he realized their monkies spit and threw feces. I feel much the same after seeing a call to *try* to follow forum policy ridiculed, distorted and vilified by folk who can only be called deceitful in their mischaracterization and libelous in their personal attacks. I'm here because I'm interested in brewing and beer related matters. Humor, politics, plaids and miscellany have a place as part of that, as long as the trend is mostly about brewing. I NEVER had an issue with the technical content nor humor of brewing posts. Nor even the occasional off-topic fling. The issue is the regular volumes of 100% off-topic posts by a few who think it humorous. Several here, a few who separately post brewing stuff too, are so enamored of their comedic talent that they inflict it on 3000+ subscribers of a brewing forum in regular, repeated and voluminous quantities with no brewing content. Apparently that is what the readership generally wants. I never imagined my enzyme kinetics posts would have a huge following. It's hard to follow in this medium and the pay-off only comes in the final episodes - several downstream from here. What I never expected is made clear from on & off-line comments. The majority opinion is violently opposed to such posts. I'll see if I can get these posted elsewhere and drop a note for the few interested. If not I'll post them here in quick succession and take any questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the monkeys when armed. Apologies for either stumbling into the Humorous Burradoo Digest or suggesting the HBD posts generally should be about brewing. My mistake. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:42:53 +0100 From: "Dr. Pivo" <docpivo at hotmail.com> Subject: more chilling thoughts I believe it was someone named Keith Brown (I am on a machine who's processor does about 2 hz, and couldn't possibly get back and forth to verify this, all in the same day), who gave a nice description of a counter flow chiller that greatly improved his cooling, and concluded something like: "you shouldn't have to use your immersion chiller any more". Which, well and truly you shouldn't HAVE to. The thing is, that you still can, and suddenly get amasing results from it. As many people have noticed, the immersion chiller works much better, if you have some movement: either the wort, or the chiller. This is the 'ol conduction vs. convection thing, which you probably either already know, or the mention of those words, won't bring any clarity at all.... let's leave it at "if either the wort or the cooling coils are moving around, you GREATLY reduce your cooling times with an immersion cooler. Ways people have delt with this are 1) to stand there shaking your cooler (we call this "the method of Onan") 2) have an automatic cooler shaker (such as my "jump valve") or 3) having a wort stirrer. The thing is, if you are using BOTH a counterflow and an immersion chiller, then you are continually pulling wort out through the counterflow, which means you are continually MOVING wort past the immersion cooler...... in other words you are getting "convection" for "free". You can split your feed lines of cooling water to each (I suppose) or couple them in series. I do the latter, letting the counterflow get the cooling water first and then feeding to the immersion. I will gurantee that using both in that manner, is FAR better that what you would expect after using each one individually. Now the only thing lacking, is a great acronym for this so we can be sure that anyone new to this forum will be thoroughly confused, and that we who are "in the know", can feel sufficiently proud of ourselves. I was going to suggest: Juxtaposed Unilateral Sytemic Transient - Serial Hybrid Immersion Technique, but changed my mind. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
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