HOMEBREW Digest #3509 Thu 21 December 2000

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  Brew Comarade (Cynthia Pekarik)
  Mash Hopping - Qty of Hops Required? (Tony Barnsley)
  READING is fundamental ("Stephen Alexander")
  LME Density (Ken Schwartz)
  Re: cleaning corny kegs (jal)
  Prolific And Preposterous ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Re: quick hit the page down button (Rick Magnan)
  re: "dye" hopping ("Kensler, Paul")
  Top Croping Yeast, Enzyme Kinetics ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
  Re: Enzyme Kinetics (Michael Friesema)
  Here we go again ("Paul Niebergall")
  Pity Me Please! ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: bacteria in carbon filters (Steve)
  Sense of humor (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Do Aussies have a life? ("FatCat")
  TSP for cleaning? ("Peed, John")
  Bottled Water, Enzyme Kinetics (Doug Hurst)
  Re: Ozonation (Demonick)
  bacteria vs yeast ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: Chilling Thoughts ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Merry Christmas ("Paul Niebergall")
  Buiding my own PID controller + CFC ("Info")
  Fridge conversion & Black goo too (fridgeguy)
  Recipe Challenge (Bob Hall)
  Some CAP questions ("Russ Hobaugh")
  Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now! ("Pat Babcock")
  the Coyote (Brian Pickerill)
  BEER (Matthew t Marino)
  I must take umbrage ("Eric Fouch")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:22:57 -0500 From: Cynthia Pekarik <74163.1163 at compuserve.com> Subject: Brew Comarade Kevin I first met Yvon of Stainless Steel Specialists 4 years ago at festibere in Chambly, Quebec. Each year they have a booth at the fest & brew with a brew comrade & 5 barrel system. The wort is sold & $$$ go to a fund helping crippled children. The equipment made by SSS is first rate. They have fabricated & installed for Les Brasseurs du Nord Brewers brewery, Dieu du Ciel Brew Pub (one of the best pubs in Montreal) & Greg Noonans Seven Barrel Brewery ( Greg praises SSS work at the back of the 7 barrel book) to name a few. When I was at yvons shop in Nov 99, they were building a turn key brew pub for a company in france. SSS have a good reputation in the brewing industry. And Yvon homebrews!! I bought a 50 litre conical fermenter & love it. Brew comarade is well made & the crew at SSS would bend over backwards to help their customers. Yvon is an honest person & I believe your money would be well spent. I am not affilliated with SSS but must admit I now consider Yvon & Norman at SSS buddies. Larry Kress RR# 2, Rockwood, Ontario Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:41:27 -0000 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Mash Hopping - Qty of Hops Required? Hi Mash hopping proponents I am brewing a (NOT AT ALL A) Bohemian Pilsner 45Litres OG 1.048, 40 IBU's with the following Hop Schedule Pacific Gem (15% aa) 90 mins 36g ( 1.25 oz ) (26.0% Utilisation) Saaz (3.1% aa) 60 mins 24g ( 0.875 oz ) (24.3% Utilisation) Saaz (3.1% aa) 30 mins 16g ( 0.5 oz ) (18.6% Utilisation) Saaz (3.1% aa) 15 mins 24g ( 0.875 oz ) (12.0% Utilisation) Saaz (3.1% aa) 0 mins 27g ( 1 oz ) ( 0.0% Utilisation) Apart from the Pacific Gem all the Saaz are type 90 Pellets, and I was planning on adding the 0 Minute Saaz addition as Mash hops, In view of the quantities that some of you quote for Mash Hop Additions I have considered using up to 100g (Hey, I've got to use these pellets up somehow, I need the space in the freezer). Any Comments (Steady Milord!) - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK Managed by home brewers for home brewers To Subscribe send blank email to uk-homebrew-subscribe at smartgroups.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:38:23 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: READING is fundamental In the past few days posts I have found a number of false statements posted regarding my position. Among these, that I am opposed to low technical quality posts, that I am opposed to humor in posts, that I have trashed the janitors, that I am opposed to Australian posts (the xenophobe card), that I am involved in a science vs art argument. Why the false claims ? Because I wrote ... >This forum is for all topics regarding beer and brewing. >It's the politics (mea culpa) and blather that are inappropriate. And suggested, >I'd strongly >prefer that you each decided to post about brewing, but if you decide >otherwise, then why not follow HBD policy and post somewhere else ? and >That the janitors are too polite to censor you doesn't mean you >shouldn't be polite enough censor yourselves. Some people "heard" something different, but they were listening to their own bile and prejudices, not my words. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:02:43 -0700 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: LME Density Jim Wilson asks about converting quarts of LME to pounds. I recently discovered that 6 lb of William's Nut Brown extract occupies about 1/2 gallon of space. Using this you can take the quarts called for times 3 to get pounds. (Pounds = quarts x 3). - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:08:55 -0600 (CST) From: jal at novia.net Subject: Re: cleaning corny kegs Peter Ensminger writes: ___________________________________________ 2. I keg my beer in ball lock kegs. Lately, I've noticed buildup of "scale" (beerstone/calcium oxalate?) that is difficult to scub off since I cannot fit my arm into the keg opening. Boiling soapy water doesn't work and neither does iodophor. I've also tried using vinegar to no avail. Can anyone suggest a simple, safe, and inexpensive method that uses readily available chemicals? ___________________________________________ I've had good luck using dishwasher detergent and a toilet brush (one that has never seen a toilet) to scrub my kegs. Use the plainest, least adulterated detergent you can find. ("Sheeting Action" is not what we're looking for here.) Wear gloves and rinse with hot water. The use of dishwasher detergent was posted in this forum many years ago. Jim Larsen Omaha Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:12:14 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Prolific And Preposterous I have been accused of both and I don't take offence at either accusation. It really isn't that important to me. I enjoy my brewing and I enjoy the beer I make. I enjoy other's brews as well (Wes' in particular and Regan's most definitely). I have enjoyed my time associated with the HBD. (Though I really am due to pass on some money - Pat, it will be coming I promise). You can appreciate that a basic brewer with a phobia about science doesn't get to stay in here without paying an awful lot of money! And every month Pat keeps upping my dues. Now Mr s (and the lower case is appropriate) makes reference to libellous personal attacks. Oh dear!!, don't tell me he is going to sue me? Pat, can you give me a line of credit for a month or two? Looks like I will have to buy him a brand new dummy as it seems he has spat out the last one I sent him and lost it! Now all this verbal biffo was supposed to be a bit of fun. It wasn't meant to take over the HBD. It wasn't meant to even actually upset anyone. Funny thing is, when someone actually does a dummy spit, a great round of cheering erupts from the audience. Some of you out there are a sick lot. Eric, if it is you involved, please ask your mates to stop egging me on with their "go for it" emails. I do genuinely feel sorry for Steve. I wish I could help him. I am going to tack onto my "be nice to everyone" resolution a requirement to put some content back into my posts. And I am going to ask Jill to keep a whole packet of dummies in the cupboard. Just in case I upset anyone else. Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:02:27 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: quick hit the page down button > From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.s\ un.com> > Phil and Graham, > > You both must take it easy on the xenophobes that inhabit the HBD. > > Unfortunately the cutltural imperialism we are so used to swallowing > is a task that these folks are unable to handle once the tables are > turned. Xenophobes? Please, thats like doing 90 in the 50 zone and saying you were pulled over for the colo(u)r of your car. Historically there has been vastly more whining and crying and complaining over "overly technical posts". Steve has a point - humor is always welcome and he's been posting for 5 years at least, not complaining about off topic posts - but exclusively posting non-brewing related material is bad form at best, regardless from where you're sending it. I agree with both sides in this issue over content, its all welcome really, but it is the *homebrew* digest and its nice to keep the majority of the conversation on beer and making it (all the while admitting that many of my favorite posts have had very little to do with beer). Rick Wellesley MA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:20:29 -0500 From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com> Subject: re: "dye" hopping Charles Preston asked: "What kind of thing do any of you use for the 'bag' when dry hopping? Especially if you're using pellets?" I use very fine-mesh cotton bags from HopTech (NA, JASC, YYY). They are basically a little pouch with a drawstring, 100% un-dyed cotton. Works great, even with pellets. And they are pretty durable so I have gotten several uses out of them - after use I rinse them and run them through the washing machine. Before using again I soak them in PBW and sanitizer - basically the same treatment I give my kegs before I rack the beer in. For what its worth I also bought the Teflon hop weight - shatterproof, boilable, non-reactive... I'm very hoppy with my dry-hopping setup. Check out HopTech's web page at www.hoptech.com <http://www.hoptech.com> . Hope this helps, Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:02:00 -0500 From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at solutia.com> Subject: Top Croping Yeast, Enzyme Kinetics Regarding Darryl's request for information on Top Cropping YEasts: "I'm planning on brewing with Whitelabs EastCoast yeast a couple of times over the holidays and its reputed to be a very good top cropper. The problem is, I've only ever bottomed cropped yeast. Does anybody have useful advice on proper techniques for top cropping?" Darryl, one of my favorite topics is harvesting top cropping yeasts! The benefits are: 1. This is live active yeast (yeast that settle to the bottom or harvested after a trying ferment may not be as healthy). 2. The yeast that rise to the surface are generally free of trub, hop particles etc, pure active yeast. The procedure I use requires the use of an "open" fermenter, a 7 gallon plastic fermenter that has a lid, but is not tightly snapped on. The beer is brewed and yeast pitched as usual. I use a stainless steel spoon to scrape off the foam that appears at the very beginning, usually one day if temp/pitching rate is normal (for me). This initial stuff is usually loaded with hop resin and proteins that are not very useful. After the first scraping, which I discard, I monitor the fermentation daily or twice daily (am pm) and scrape off the yeast cake, leaving the darker older stuff that sticks to the sides of the pail. This is placed into a sanitized quart mason jar and placed in the refrigerator with the cap loosely on. After several days the generation of yeast slows down and if you don't like diacetyl, you better rack to a carboy and fit it with a fermentation lock. I usually then wait until fermentation stops, and place my beer in the fridge to crash and clear the yeast. The yeast in the mason jar usually settles out into a layer on the bottom of the mason jar, I usually tighten the lid at this time and keep it refrigerated. This yeast is good for about three weeks. The next time I brew, I add some wort directly from the outlet of my counter flow wort chiller to the mason jar at the beginning of the cooling process. By the time I am done filling the pail with my chilled wort, the yeast have kicked into action and I pitch this directly into the wort and let it go. A couple of things here. I discovered this process (It was discovery for me, didn't have the HBD then) after examining the effluent from a "blow off" type of arrangement. The blown off stuff looked very much like it had yeast settling on the bottom of the jar into which the overflow went into. I tried to harvest enough yeast this way (as la Burton Union type arrangement) but was not happy. It was then that I went back to my open fermenter procedure and actually saved the "scrapings" which I used to throw away! In fact I only followed this scrape off the foam thing because it was recommended by Fred Echardt (sp?) in his "A Treatise on Lager Beer" published when I first started brewing beer in the 70's. This was the ONLY readily available information on homebrewing at the time and I will tell you there is nothing like trying to make beer without information! On to next topic: Enzyme Kinetics: Steve, keep up the series. Ignore the snipe. Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Friesema <mike_friesema at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Enzyme Kinetics I only started homebrewing this past year and enjoy it very much for a variety of reasons. Among these reasons is the chance to learn many new things and in line with that, the HBD has been very helpful. I have not posted before but now feel compelled to say that I too have appreciated the opportunity to read the postings by Steve Alexander on Enzyme Kinetics. I certainly can understand that his posts are not for everybody but I'm disturbed that some people, rather than just using the page down key are hell bent on getting such posts off the board. Steve - if you continue posting in some other forum, please let me know where they can be found. Mike Friesema Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:24:04 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Here we go again Steve, Steve, Steve, Don't get mad. I few misguided people actually do enjoy your artless content posts. The biggest problem is one of ATTITUDE. I (and I assume most others here) had enough lectures in school. Trying to play the part of the Perfessor and trying to get us all to behave as your students is condescending. Think about some of the things that you said: >Several here, a few who separately post brewing stuff too, are >so enamored of their comedic talent that they inflict it on >3000+ subscribers of a brewing forum in regular, repeated and >voluminous quantities with no brewing content. Please replace the words "comedic talent" with "self serving scientific dialog". Then take a deep look inward and you may eventually get the idea. I could just as easily starting posting portions of MY textbooks concerning porous media flow (in regard to lauter tun design) and go on forever and ever until people are bored to tears. All of the my own high opinion of my vast scientific knowledge of this subject. I do not do this because I have enough respect for the HBD readership to spare them of this assault to their intellects. (There are also more pleasurable forms of self-gratification just ask Phil) >I never imagined my enzyme kinetics posts would have a huge following. >It's hard to follow in this medium and the pay-off only comes in the final >episodes - several downstream from here. >If not I'll post them here in quick succession and take any >questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the >monkeys when armed. "Huge following", "pay-offs" from your vast knowledge, Monkeys?? Thank you for reminding us exactly where you stand. (I forgot that you are God and we are your monkey students.) That type of attitude will get you real far. Paul N. (and you thought I was gone or something) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:18:00 -0600 From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Pity Me Please! Steve, Please don't stop posting. I apologize to you and to the populace. I was wrong. More people want the scientific post and not the pitiful attempts at humor coming from Phil, he should be banned from the HBD. It is taking most of my mornings the past two days to read all e-mails coming to your defense. Hope you noticed in my latest post I talked about battering boy, have I been Battered. After my post yesterday I have been accused of being a closet scientist. The what if's I have been practicing in business the past 40 years is really scientific experiments. As our outgoing president said it is all according of what your definition of "is" is. But, I have ordered a lab coat. I certainly am glad I'm from Texas where we don't take these things too serious, with the exception of craft brewers from Howe, that is. But I have noticed that there is more post to the HBD now that we are once again debating science, art and good common sense. Wishing You All The Merriest of Christmas and the Happiest Of New Year, Hanukkah, and Ramadan, Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:36:21 -0800 (PST) From: Steve <gravelse at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters Hi All, I've been reading the posts about bacteria and contamination in your pipes and water filters, I have to chuckle. I'm pretty clean and sanitary with my brewing process, but I stopped obsessing about it after I saw a picture in one of the books about beer around the world. There was a picture of a brewer in a dark, exposed post and beam (and cobweb) celler in Europe somewhere. The brewer was holding a candle in one of those old fashion candle holders with the wax catcher on the bottom as he was leaning over a vat sampling some of his beer. Now, I know that's the opposite end of the cleanliness spectrum and I try to stay close to the opposite end but within reason. Here are several views on the subject: Richard wrote: "When such water is held quiescent, such as overnight in a carbon filter, in an RO storage tank, or even in household plumbing, these heterotrophic plate count (HPC) organisms typically multiply to 1,000 to 10,000 or more colony-forming units per milliliter." Martin followed: "they are still going to spoil your wort. And they are multiplying in these pieces of equipment. Thank you Richard, this is just the info we all need to support the fact that we MUST boil all water added to our brewing endeavors." Todd countered with: "According to Danstar, their dry yeast packets contain 20 billion cells/g and they're 5 g packs, so 100 billion cells. In 23 L or 23,000 mL, thats 4.3 million/mL" snip "that's still 1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria that's going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a whole lot quicker than bacteria" I'm in agreement with Todd, and I would like to point to a couple of techniques that I do in my brewing process that should alleviate any problems: 1. I boil my wort for at least an hour, and 2. I soak my fermenter in Iodophor for at leat 1/2 hour and then let it drip dry prior to putting any boiled wort in it. I think this will defeat any bacterial "problems" in the water. Uh, Oh!... I occasionally rinse the fermenter with a spray of hot water when I get that black residue from the Iodophor! Is my beer ruined! ;^) I'm just pointing out that we all have our obsessions. Please excuse me now, I HAVE TO straighten the fringe on the carpet, someone walked on it again! The nerve! Steve Gravel Portsmouth, Rhode Island "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an obsession!" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:49:50 -0600 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Sense of humor From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> >....(The next bit is contentless so only really applies to Aussies, Swedes, and >any other person with a sense of humour)..... Sense of humor?? Yes, but even a keen sense of humor will lie lifeless unless humor IS PRESENT! Humor, yes, pabulum, no. Ron La Borde Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:07:43 -0500 From: "FatCat" <fatcat at homebrew.com> Subject: Do Aussies have a life? After viewing, for some months now, the massive verbage of the Australian brewers (actually, we assume they are brewers, based on their posts they may actually be frustrated comics, ah yes, it seems some one from the 'outside' has visited them) one must wonder if these people have, like an actual, life. Tons of humorous (?) bandwidth directed against one and all must take a huge amount of time. They must truly enjoy the leeway they are granted in their choice of 'language'. After all, 'bugger' is defined as: 1. to perform anal sex or 2. to be the insertive partmer in anal sex, most commonly in reference to activities performed on 1st and 2nd formers by uppers and dons in English public schools. Oh well, to keep this beer related, the US Border Cantina, in Alpharetta, GA is definitely worth a visit. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:54 -0500 From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> Subject: TSP for cleaning? Anybody use tri sodium phosphate as a cleaning agent? I use 1 teaspoon per gallon, with a good hot water rinse. I've read in at least one source that it's fine for use as a homebrew equipment cleanser as long as it's warm-water rinsed (I assume hot is better). I haven't died yet, and am brewing some decent beers, so I assume it's fine. Anyone have any comment on using TSP as a cleaning agent? And BTW, if the HBD were a meeting and I had to sit through a verbal presentation of everything that everyone had to say, I would be leading the squabble over content. Thankfully, though, it's on-line and the scroll bars work fine. With apologies to Stevie Wonder: Ranters, keep on ranting. Pontificators, keep expounding. World, keep on turnin', I can always just scroll down. John Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:06:14 -0600 From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Bottled Water, Enzyme Kinetics This has probably been discussed before, but with the current discussion regarding microbes in tap water, I thought I'd bring it up. I usually purchase 2.5 gallon jugs of spring water for brewing because it tastes better than my tap water. Does anyone know whether bottled water is microbe free? When I make an all grain brew it all gets boiled so it doesn't matter. When I make an extract batch, I only boil about half of the water. I've never had an infection from bottled water but that doesn't mean there weren't any microbes in it. Of course there are other issues with bottled water too, like not knowing the mineral content. Alright I'll bite. Steven Alexander writes: "...The majority opinion is violently opposed to such posts [Enzyme Kinetics]. I'll see if I can get these posted elsewhere and drop a note for the few interested. If not I'll post them here in quick succession and take any questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the monkeys when armed." I, for one, believe such posts are what make the HBD valuable. I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to them. If this forum is not the place for posts that delve into the details of brewing then let me know where to find them and I will go there. I read the HBD to learn more about brewing and improve my skills. I admit that my understanding of organic chemistry is very low, but I still find useful information in detailed scientific posts. After all, brewing is fundamentally about science. Of course it's an art and a joyous hobby too, but those wouldn't exist without the science. So please keep up the good work, I'll be reading. Doug Hurst Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:36:26 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Ozonation From: SGWESST at aol.com >Our city is the first in Texas to change from chlorine water treatment to >ozonation.Does anyone know what if any effect this will have on our brew >water preparation? Lucky you! Ozone sanitation is great for brewers. The levels that make it to the tap are insignificant to yeast and it adds no off flavors or ill effects. You do need to check that the water department is not just adding ozonation and moving from chlorine to chloramines. Ozonation is mostly a point of origin technique, meaning that it ensures sanitation as the water leaves the plant. Since the O3 breaks down and escapes quickly not much is left at the consumer end (point of delivery). Most water departments use a combination of sanitation methods to ensure point of origin AND point of delivery sanitation. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:40:42 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu> Subject: bacteria vs yeast Todd posted: >1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria >is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a >whole lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment >hostile to bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to >outcompete bacteria for food! Unfortunately, the only quote I can think >of to end this on is, "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Actually, most bacteria will divide much more rapidly than our little yeast buddies. Bacterial generation times are often on the order of tens of minutes while yeast take hours. This is understandable when you consider how much more complex yeast are than bacteria (our own cells take about 24 hours to reproduce). For the case you mentioned above (174 yeast :1 bacteria), if you assume a 2 hour generation time for the yeast and a 30 minute generation time for the bacteria, then by the end of 6 hours you'll instead have about 4:1 in favor of the bacteria! You are right however that the yeast will quickly change the environment by lowering the pH, depleting available oxygen, and producing ethanol, making it difficult for most bacteria to thrive. Of course, this will become harder to do if there are fewer yeast to begin with or if the contamination burden is high initially, underscoring the benefits of pitching sufficient viable yeast and marinating sanitation throughout, respectively. "Pitch High, Keep Clean THEN Relax, Don't Worry, and Have a GOOD Homebrew!" -Alan Meeker Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:02:01 -0600 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Re: Chilling Thoughts >"you shouldn't have to use your immersion chiller any more". >The thing is, that you still can, and >suddenly get amazing results from it. Hmmm... Sorry Doc - I don't buy it. My intuition tells me that you would just be using twice as much water for a miniscule cooling gain. Most counterflow chillers typically cool the wort down to within 5 degrees of the cooling water temperature (my Maxichiller chills to within 2 degrees). So even if your immersion chiller drops your average wort temperature down from 212 to 160 before entering the counterflow (which is generous), you would still only drop an additional degree or two on your final temperature. Seems like a lot of extra trouble and water consumption for virtually nothing... Dan in Minnetonka (who just posted 100% brewing-related content! Yeah!) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:10:49 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Merry Christmas O.K. I have had it with the blather of the digest lately. Steve has forced me to join the ranks of the enlightened few. As my own personal Christmas gift to each and every one of you, I shall be posting installments (each week throughout the entire year of 2001) of my own personal scientific masturbation. I hope you all enjoy this as much as I do. (Try not to get any on you!) . Part 1 - Lauter Tun Flow: Let's develop a three-dimensional flow equation that is the basis of many groundwater flow models that can be used to simulate the flow of wort threw a lauter tun. Applying the conservation of mass principle and Darcy's law to a representative elemental volume of saturated lauter tun material, one can derive the following unsteady-state, partial differential equation for the head distribution in a three-dimensional, non-homogeneous, anisotropic flow system where the coordinate system axes coincide with the principal directions of the hydraulic conductivity tensor: d/dX [Kxx dH/dX] + d/dY [Kyy dH/dY] + d/dZ [Kzz dH/dZ] + W(X,Y,Z,t) = Ss dH/dT (eq 1-1) (Note in equation 1-1 above that d is the symbol for a "partial differential". Next time we will explore the meaning of partial differentials with several excerpts from Newton's Principia Mathematician, for those of you who need to brush up on your calculus.) H is the total head at any point in the lauter system; Kxx, Kyy, Kzz are the principal components of the hydraulic tensor; Ss is the specific storage of the grain medium; and W represents the internal sources or sinks such as the lauter outlet. Under certain conditions, lauter outlets or extraction points within the lauter system may be described mathematically by three Dirac delta functions. In this case, W would equal: W = SIGMA (i=1 to n) Qi d (X-Xi d (Y-Yi) d (Z-Zi) (eq 1-2) Where Qi is the extraction rate of wort through the lauter outlet; Xi, Yi, and Zi are the three-dimensional coordinates of the lauter outlet; and N is the number of outlets (usually 1 for most home set ups). Note that the Dirac Delta functions in space have units of reciprocal length (1/L). Next week we shall explore various numerical solutions to the above equations and how the Peclet number effects the stability of the solving process. (For your homework assignment, I ask that you all please brush up on your linear algebra theory as I will be solving many complex matrices in development of a steady state solution to the problem and I don't want anybody to get lost .) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Monkeys: You must respect my Authoritii! (God I am so smart. I could go on like this forever!). Shall I go on? Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:05:41 -0300 From: "Info" <info at alean.com.ar> Subject: Buiding my own PID controller + CFC 1)I would like to get some help on constructing my own PID controller. I'm living in Argentina and I don't have the possibility to buy here one just ready for our application. Does some one have electricall drawings or CAD drawings + photos from a proben PID? All the info you can send me to build it here will be marvelous. 2) I want to make a counterflow chiller with copper inside and outside ( 1/2"+ 3/8") Does some one expirience in how to turn both tubes (one inside the other) without damaging or bending them? Do you think 6 meters is enough to get 20 celcius at the output of the CFC? Tips or suggestions are wellcome. Please e-mail me to: info at alean.com.ar Best Regards, Mauricio Wagner Buenos - Aires Argentina Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:14:35 -0500 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: Fridge conversion & Black goo too Greetings folks, In HBD# 3508, Beth Fuchs asked for tips concerning cutting holes in the side of her fridge for beer and CO2 lines. Fortunately, most fridges don't have anything but insulation in their side walls. Refrigerant lines and wiring usually run up the back or corners of the fridge. Having said that, proceed with caution! First, unplug the fridge. Next I'd suggest starting from the inside and cut the hole through just the plastic fridge interior. Now slowly remove the insulation between the interior and outer skin in the area where the lines will go. The idea is to move any wires or lines you may encounter out of harm's way before cutting into them. I use an old dull screwdriver for this. Foam insulation will crumble as it is probed so I use a shop vac to clear it from the hole. When the hole is clear, use a punch to make an indentation in the outer skin in the center of where the hole is to be located. Now drill the outer skin from the outside of the fridge. I like to use a "Unibit", which is a stepped drill bit made for drilling thin sheet metal. When the holes are drilled and lines run, be sure to seal around the lines with a silicone caulk or plumber's putty to help prevent moisture from entering the insulation. In the same digest, Drew Avis is concerned about a mysterious brownish-black goo weeping from a seam in his freezer. In many (usually older) freezers a tar-like sealer was used on cabinet interior seams. It is common for this to eventually work its way through the seam and doesn't cause a problem other than looking bad. It may be possible to stop the goo by allowing the freezer to warm to room temperature. Clean and dry the interior and caulk the seams with a mildew-resistant silicone caulk. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net - -- Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com (c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:02:25 +0000 From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org> Subject: Recipe Challenge Ok folks, we're nearing the end of the semester, and it's time for your exam (plus a little fun). Below are your clues: "Golden Ale: A crisp, lager-like blonde ale brewed with Vienna malt for superior smoothness. Refreshing and brisk, this beer has a sweet, floral aroma, and is an excellent introduction to the world of fresh, microbrewed beers." Given this brief information, what recipe would you concoct to best fit the description? Include yeast and hops. We often try to clone brews we've tasted, and I thought it might be fun to compare variations of a "virtual" beer. I'll collect and post submissions and try to crank out a batch or two over the holidays. Seasons Greetings, Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:02:11 -0500 From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com> Subject: Some CAP questions I was inspired by Jeff Renner's article on CAPs in Zymurgy, so I plan on brewing one next week, because I finally got a temp. control for my beer fridge. Any recomendations for the following? 8.5 #s 6 row pale malt 2 #s flaked maize .5 # munich malt Mash in at 153 for 60 minutes. FWH with 1 oz of Hallertaur Mittel. .5 oz of Cluster for 60 min. 1 oz Hall. Mittel. for 5 minutes I think the grain is good, but am not sure about the hops. Any and all comments appreciated. Russ Hobaugh Goob' Dog Brewery, Birdsboro PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:20:57 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <babcockp at mediaone.net> Subject: Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now! Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I've been a long-time carbon filter advocate. I've also left the filter for days or weeks between uses with little thought of any sanitation. Is someone in the readership actually experimenting with this? If so, I've a question: If you run water through the filter for, say, five minutes prior to using the outflow, what is the results in the level of contamination? Like I said, I've been using my filters for years with never a thought to this, and nary a problem - now you've got me all paranoid! And another question! I've always understood (or simply thought...) that the difference between mash in and dough in was one is adding grain to water, the other water to grain, respectively. My question is which manner is superior? I've never had a problem with dough ball in the grain to water method, which is how I've been doing it lately, but, frankly, I can't remember if I've ever done it the other way (old age, I guess). What're the opinions out there? Finally, there are a lot of different personalities out there, and people are attracted to the Digest for differing reasons. I gently ask those who have been publishing solely for the humor of it to restrain themselves, taking care that the non-brewing content doesn't outweigh the brewing content in the Digest. On the other hand, I will not demand that anyone flat out stop, nor is it within our capacity to ban anyone from the Digest. I also ask those who would criticize other posters to take a step back, count ten, and ensure that they are well grounded before doing lodging any complaints. Perceptions vary. What one finds drivel others find useful. The current rancor on the Digest, in conjunction with the free time available due to the US Automakers' Christmas break, forces the Janitors to enforce the policy with respect to brewing content to the letter. On the downside, I now have to read each and every post coming into the queue rather than simply recognizing the contributor's name. So much for free time... - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:23:50 -0500 From: Brian Pickerill <bpickerill at mac.com> Subject: the Coyote >Anyone remember old John Wylie "Coyote"? Yeah! Those of you who don't should read the archives. - --Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:47:26 -0700 From: Matthew t Marino <mattncherie at juno.com> Subject: BEER A while back there was some question as to re-pitching yeast from the primary or the secondary fermentation. In "First Steps in Yeast Culture" by Pierre Rajotte, (an excellent text on culturing yeast!) he basically says that while the secondary may be cleaner in terms of trub, hop particles, etc. it also would also contain more bacteria and wild yeasts due to the fact that they are lighter in weight and dont settle as readily as brewers yeast. In the secondary there is minimal CO2 buoyoncy to keep the lighter particles suspended. He goes on to say that it may not catch up to you until the 3rd or 4th batch. This of course would only be relavent to a brew that had some contamination to begin with. So if you know your clean it probably doesnt matter but if your unsure go with the primary or better yet start a new yeast. I find that repitched yeast is lways more vigorous and quicker to attenuate as long as its reasonably fresh and clean. I also would like to recomend the easy masher to anyone interested in starting all grain mashing. I've been using it for 5 or so brews now and its great as far as efficiency, clarity, and speed of the run off. I especialy like the fact that you can directly heat the mash without scorching it. I' mashed for 4 years with other set ups copper manifol and stainless perforated false bottoms and the em is nicer for me than anything else. "From Grain to Brain" MADMAN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:30:08 -0500 From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147 at hotmail.com> Subject: I must take umbrage The cane toads must have gotten to the Ozzies: >From the bowels of PhillJill: " Eric is clearing ice dams but what I suspect is that he likes the idea of school girls looking up at him in his skimpy tutu. Eric you idiot! The tutu is for wearing in summer! But I forgot, in summer Eric dresses up as Robin Hood and prances about in the forest with his bow and arrow, shooting innocent deer. " First off, I have taken into account the fragility of the neighborhood as a whole. That and my modesty forces me to wear wursted polypropylene thermals under my tutu's while prancing on the roof. Besides, roof ice works well to chill down the recirculation ice bath. The cold weather is also allowing me to circumvent the fact that my brewerator is on the blink: I dug out my trusty Son-Of-Fermentation chiller, hooked up a lamp to my controller, and Bob's your Uncle! A nifty in-the-garage lagering oven! And as far as dressing up as Robin Hood and shooting "innocent" deer, three comments: 1) Robin Hood never wore Oaktree Skyline Breakup camo. 2) It was self defense, and 3) If you can't look up into the big brown eyes of a deer and pull the trigger, you might as well be wearing a tutu. Without the thermals, that is. Another finely crafted note brought to you from the mind of Airrick147. OK- Supermonkey helped. A little. "Two bodies of mass cannot occupy the same space at the same time. But we could still hold each other real close." -SM Return to table of contents
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