HOMEBREW Digest #3510 Fri 22 December 2000

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Krauesening questions (Pat Casey)
  carbon filters seething with deadly bacteria ("Richard & Laura")
  Cultural Differences (craftbrewer)
  hells bells ("Stephen Taylor")
  Question and comments (Petr Otahal)
  Frozen yeast (rwcos)
  Fruity Tooty Tony ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Re: READING is fundamental (Chad Clancy)
  RE:cleaning corny kegs ("Walter H. Lewis III")
  Mash hopping (Marc Sedam)
  Carbon filter bacteria ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Happy Holidays - Can't we all just get along ? ("Jeff Woods")
  MCAB grain; and content (Joel Plutchak)
  Where in the hell? and thanks! (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  RE: Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now! (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Suck and Cut (Richard Foote)
  My first lager ("Tom Rutkowski")
  High-tech homebrewing in orbit, anyone? (Jim Adwell)
  Re: Recipe Challenge (Demonick)
  IBU/HBU confusion ("Steve Blanchard")
  Happy Hanuka ("Paul Niebergall")
  Dry hopping & content ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  beerstone (ensmingr)
  Welcome to Lauter Tun Flow! (John Palmer)
  CO2 volumes ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")

* * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:51:47 +1100 From: Pat Casey <patcasey at iprimus.com.au> Subject: Krauesening questions I would like to krauesen my bottled beer. As I am not in continuous production of the one beer, krauesening with pitched wort is not really feasible. However it would be interesting to try krauesening a pilsner with an IPA or vice versa if I could get the timing right. The alternative seems to be to freeze 10 per cent of the original pitched wort to add back later for bottling. To see if this would work I made up 600ml of 1045 SG malt extract wort, pitched it with scavenged Saflager yeast from secondary fermentation (about 1 cm in the bottom of a 330 ml bottle), and froze it in a PET bottle which was squeezed to remove the air and to allow for expansion of the frozen wort. After 12 days in the freezer I let it thaw a bit, then stuck an air lock in it and let it go. From when it completely thawed it took about thirty hours to start bubbling in the air lock. Once under way, the bubbling was steady but never vigorous, petering out after about six days with still the occasional bubble when I threw it out today on the seventh. Despite the 30 degree C heat of the last days it still tasted OKish, or at least not off. Obviously not all the yeast would survive the freezer, but given the heat and the volumes of wort and slurry, I expected a more vigorous fermentation - yes an ale yeast would have been better but I had none handy. So some questions: - what is the approximate survival rate of frozen yeast, and is this time dependent? -would the survival rate be sufficient to make the krausening worthwhile? ie it is not simply wort priming. - what does freezing do to wort, pitched or not ? - would yeast that died in the freezer have an impact on taste, or would this be outweighed by the alleged taste benefits of krauesening? - what stage after pitching would be a good time to draw of the 10 per cent to freeze it? I would be grateful for any answers, comments, suggestions etc. drawn from either experience, theory or both. Pat Casey PS The idea of the "cross-krauesen" only occurred while writing this. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:53:56 -0700 From: "Richard & Laura" <dromedary at worldnet.att.net> Subject: carbon filters seething with deadly bacteria Greetings all, In an attempt to provide this forum with "content," I offered the recent post (with actual data) about bacterial growth in carbon water filters. My intent was to prevent anyone from being afraid to use a carbon filter out of fear of introducing a new source of bacterial contamination into the brewing process. I was initially hesitant to use a carbon filter for just this reason. But, once I read the results of the studies done on the filters (see my recent post), I decided to use the filter. And, I'm glad I did. My beer tastes better. However, I never meant to suggest that a carbon filter would somehow sterilize your tap water. If you would boil the water anyway, then boil it when you use a carbon filter too. And, for those (two) of you who sent private email informing me that one actually has to BOIL WATER to make beer, well thanks. Glad to know that. Who says the HBD isn't about humor? Again, I apologize for my previous lack of clarity. Don't hesitate to use a carbon filter as one of your brewing tools. Salud! Ricardo Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:37:55 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Cultural Differences G'Day All Well the wars have well and truly broken out, but has it really? Now i ask my new best mate(s) if they will allow this post. Will it contain a beer related post. Well no, thats the last you'll hear on the subject. Does it contain information relevant to all HBDers, well definitely yes a must read. That includes YOU. Now what is going on here is clearly a cultural thing, and like all things understand it better and there's nothing really in it. Now in any cultural disgress, I will make generic statements about a people, yes there are exceptions, but also 'if the shoe fits'. Read it for what it is. There is nothing hidden here. But understanding the unknown makes the known easier to understand. Now if a chinese fellow came on this digest we would forgive him if he couldn't spell, or if he used a word wrong - compensate, or said something not quite right - let it ride. In other words we respect his culture (even if its weird). But for some reason if its from any English speaking country then thats goes right out the window. No - standards are the same in all these countries. I'm afraid people thats not true, not by a long shot. What you have seen here over the last few weeks is a very Australian thing. Any Oz will tell you what it is. (now I'm trying my hardest not to use slang in this whole post and not trigger the corporate filters in America but there are no other words to describe this) Its called "taking the piss out of someone". Lets make that TPOS. This is so deeply engrained into the Aus character we will not we are doing it til basically someone pulls us up. And even then we may not hear it and continue. Its goes even deeper. Most Aussies instinctively insult each other in their daily conversation. friends are called words that Americans wouldn't even use against their worst enemy. Insults, putting people down, is so second nature that we even type it. Now call it a legacy of our convict past, (I blame the pomps personally). Now the pomps invented it, but we have refined it. For example, a certain 'Aleman' from the UK is posting regularly lately. If i call him "A whinging Pommie Bastard" I'll would bet London to a brick he would not be upset. Instead he would come straight back at me with something like "Typical Australian Yobbo" Now take this one step further. It is just second nature that mates will TPOS out of other mates for almost anything. Be a bit late, forget something, pass an insult, in fact no excuse needed. it just happens. Further in a group you can have little wars break out. You TPOS out of me, I come straight back at you and so forth. This form of teasing can last years. Threads of TPOS can actually last a lifetime. eg be it living in Nth Qld or making Rice lagers. Infact its very common to take something said to you and use it as a hook, like your own personal signature. Now I have seen old men TPOS over something that has happened when they were teenagers, it lasted that long. But here's the thing about it - ITS ALL IN FUN. at least it is to us. Now within the confines of Australia this is fine, but we can bore of it too. So when new blood come in well he is just fair game. A new friend is always a target. How he reacts determines if he's your mate, or a whinger and not worth knowing. Now I say again - this is cultural, it just happens, even in Mail and letters. There is no malicious or intent. But, there are certain people that really leave themselves open for a bit of TPOS. Pomps are no real fun, they know, Non English people dont understand. South Africans you cant insult, but Americans (i'm sorry to say) are just prime game for this sort of thing. Not being rude, but they react sooo beautifully to a bit of TPOS. Just like an kid who teases, if you react the teaser loves it. Now unfortunately, Australians don't take life too seriously, if you like enjoy the moment. But Americans seem to take everything so serious, especially a need for success and acceptance, a sort image thing. Fun will come latter on in life. Australian are take us like we am. Now these difference of opinion makes you prime targets of TPOS. Its irresistibly. I've done it to ever yank I have met, you just can't help it. the problem is Americans can't see whats happening, a case for the forest for the trees. this is not an insult, it how the world perceives you, and how you act at lot of the time. So to Steve in particular, "there's nothing in it" We have been TPOS out of you. Do we apologise for it. Well yes, What Phil wrote is about as close as you'll get. Australian take a lot of stock to a persons character by how he reacts to TPOS. React badly well, we feel sorry for you, but we dont apologise normally for our actions. Its how we measure a man. Do we go over the top - YEP. We understand your culture all too well, bombarded every day with it. It would be nice if you understood ours every now and then. Shout Graham Sanders oh I can speak with authority on this. My ex was American. I dont know how many relatives I insulted, caused grief, never talked to me again or just plain hated me. And I tried not to do the wrong thing. For some reason there was no give on their side. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:00:38 +1100 From: "Stephen Taylor" <stephentaylor at one.net.au> Subject: hells bells What in the hell is a hells, is that correct, i have to buy afew books,or is it helles, any one should be allowed to be ignorant, i love to brew , that is the limit of my education & i look to formats such as this to improve my beers and that is all , i dont give a rats bottom whatever is posted as long as eventully my beer improves, my pleasure improves in life at what ever is printed here as i feel i am with kindred spirits as i allways throw myself totally in to my hobbies, i feel we are all lunatics together, and whatver our angle of approach it is bacically about beer, and improving it and we will always have more in common then we know , so as someone said lets cut a bit of slack, argue as much as we like, even get the sh*ts with each other , but i hope never lose sight of what it is all about, the Best Hobby in the world, brewing beer that only we get to drink,& loving it, spreading the joy , so to speak, or is it the fact i dont go back to work until feb (holidays) and am full of drink,? from our break up party,great day,summer is here, or both, i think ,so brothers lets advance the cause as good brewers, (something i hope to be one day.Maybe, Perhaps, Hopefully,) Merry Christmas to you who it is politically correct to say it to and best of luck to all for the New Year. S. Taylor, newcastle in OZ. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:33:33 +1100 From: Petr Otahal <potahal at postoffice.utas.edu.au> Subject: Question and comments I have questions for all. I brewed a mash stout (my second all grain effort) The recipe: 45L batch OG:1.044 IBU:~45 5kg (72%) Franklin Malt (Basically a larger malt) 1kg (14%) Roasted Barley 1kg (14%) Flaked Barley 70g Northern Brewer (9.8%) 80min boil Single infusion mash at 67-68C (~153-154F) for an hour and a half at roughly 3L per kg of grain. Did have a few lautering problems, it went very slowly to begin with and I backflushed with sparge water a few times, but in the end it flowed well enough. I split the batch with Dave, a mate of mine who helped me brew it, and he kegged five litres of his half. Now the problem is that the beer that we bottled pours with a nice head but the head disappears fairly quickly. Yet on the kegged portion, which is nitrogenated, the beer pours with a very creamy head which lasts all the way to the bottom of the glass. Is there such a big difference between nitrogen bubbles and CO2? I was expecting that his nitro version would have a longer lasting head, but I also expected that the flaked barley would help the head last longer on the bottled version. The other question is, would it have helped if I had performed a protein rest? Appart from that the stout is fantastic better than any of my best extract efforts, except my coffee stout which is different but equally good. Cheers Pete And for the page-downers: The rest of this post is non beer related, so use that key (except that it isn't a page worth so you might miss the top of the next post). ********** Paul Niebergall: >Shall I go on? Paul, I believe that you have many wonderful things to contribute, but if you dont write it in simple terms how can we hope to understand you. Im sure there was someone out there who understood what you had to say, but I wasn't one of 'em. You have to make easier for us simple folk (those without a calculus degree) to understand what you are getting at, and not baffle us with equations. ********** Steve A, Dont take the Aussie posts to heart they're just stirrin' ya up a bit. Thats what Aussie's are realy good at, and the more you bite the more they go on, I can see how in the end it can get upsetting. The easiest way is to just ignore it. If you dont put fuel on the fire it'll burn itself out. Eventually! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:55:53 -0500 From: rwcos <rwcos at dmv.com> Subject: Frozen yeast I received some frozen yeast in an order yesterday, so I use it or not??/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:09:18 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Fruity Tooty Tony Tony Barnsley, the man they call "The Scurrilous One" is going to be marched straight to the litigation courts. How dare he use my name and suggest I forced him to put strawberries in his wheat beer!! I did nothing of the sort. Am I completely surrounded by idiots? I've got Eric wearing tutus in a Michigan winter and Tony pouring strawberries into his wheat beer. What we were talking about Tony was the inclusion of raspberries, not strawberries! But having now corrected you, I'll have to add the comment that raspberries were not such a good idea either. Well it depends on what you like. I did make a raspberry wheat beer but it was a little too tart for my liking, such is the nature of raspberries. But the peach wheat is entirely a different matter. I know Doc Pivo said he couldn't taste them. And Graham Sanders (who is yet to publish his thoughts on the beer) reckoned the peach flavour was only just at the taste threshold. But that is what I was wanting to achieve. It is my opinion that peach flavour compliments very nicely the banana and clove (traditional description) of the flavour esters produced by hefeweizen yeast. My intention was to achieve an after taste that was almost indiscernible. So what do you do? You go and pour a tonne of strawberries into your brew and then try and blame me for the resulting horror beer which even the bacteria refuse to consume! You're going straight to the courts my boy!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:24:21 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Clancy <chadclancy at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: READING is fundamental I agree with Stephen that his criticisms have been extrapolated way beyond their original intent. My read on his comments indicates that he is merely asking that the posters follow the HBD guidelines. This is nothing more than the jaintors themselves ask of any poster although they have also indicated in the past that we should police ourselves as they don't want to be in the business of censoring posts. One could prove Stephen's point by compiling all of the posts originating from the land of oz for the past three months or so and see what you come up with. Would it be something that even a minority of HBD readers would appreciate? I would hope that such a compilation would at least have a slant towards homebrewing. The last thing I want to do is discuourage anyone from making a post but I don't think that its too much to ask that we read the HBD mission statement once in a while to see if the majority of our posts are in line with the basis for this digest. ===== Chad M. Clancy o---o---o---o Modjeski and Masters, Inc. / \ / \ / \ / \ Mechanicsburg, PA -----o---o---o---o---o----- | | \~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:22:31 -0500 From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com> Subject: RE:cleaning corny kegs My homebrew club just scored 300 cornies from an un-named source at a fantastic price. Dirty! Used! Full of who know what! When it came time to clean the 20 I picked up I call an old source I had used in the past. Their BUSINESS is reconditioning cornies. The owner told me that an hour soak with hot water and Cascade with bleach -- yes! bleach -- would take everything out! Even root beer taste and oder. While I may open a debate on bleach/SS again I will give sone personal experience. I used to sell lemonade at fairs and carnivals. I used cornies to transport and serve a sugar water mixture I used in preparation. At the end of the season I would put about a cup of clorox in each cornie and fill with water. It would sit there for 6-8 months!!!!! I never had any problems in 10 years. Walt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:34:53 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Mash hopping I would use 75g of Saaz (or you could chuck in 100g--no harm) to replace your 15 minute and 0 minute additions. That should make your not-really-a-pilsner pretty damn tasty. What's your water profile like...just curious. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:24:29 -0500 From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu> Subject: Carbon filter bacteria I had posted: >1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria >is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a >whole lot quicker than bacteria Alan replied: "Actually, most bacteria will divide much more rapidly than our little yeast buddies. Bacterial generation times are often on the order of tens of minutes while yeast take hours. " After opening a book I realized I was wrong on this point. Bacteria are capable of growing faster than yeast. Thank you Alan. Todd Snyder Buffalo, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:42:57 -0500 From: "Jeff Woods" <woodsj at us.ibm.com> Subject: Happy Holidays - Can't we all just get along ? I'm mostly a lurker because it seems that my posts don't generate a lot of interest and responses. That's OK I look forward to HBD every day. The spirit of the season compells me to comment on the recent sniping. It's the holiday season and read what's going on in the HBD. Everyone needs to lighten up a little and allow for the variety of homebrewing interests and motivations. Everyone brews and subscribes to HBD for their own personal reasons. There should be plenty of latitude for all types of posts.......humorous, theoretical, newbies, art vs. science, whatever. Personally (flame suit on) I don't go much for the complex scientific formulas but I know that if ever needed I can search the archives for reference. I enjoy the posts from Oz, Michigan, Texas, and the rest of the world. We need to be more tolerant of others viewpoints. We're all united by a unique hobby that is not shared by the masses. Now for content - I like beer and brew my own. I use water, malted barley grains, hops, and yeast. Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:14:35 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: MCAB grain; and content At the MCAB conference in St. Louis, some sort of grain was handed out to attendees, and although I spent so much time, er, socializing that all that was left were crumbs, I did manage to make it home with a split, half-full box of it. Well, I'm finally gearing up to brew a beer where the grain would be useful, but I've forgotten exactly what was provided. Was it the fabled under- modified malt, or "just" your run-of-the-grain-mill Moravian malt? (I assume a protein rest is necessary for the former, and not for the latter?) As for the issue of content, I told myself I'd stay out of it, but simply can't resist... In HBD #3509, somebody said (edited): >Please replace the words "comedic talent" with "self serving scientific > dialog". Then take a deep look inward and you may eventually get the >idea. The biggest problem is one of ATTITUDE. I (and I assume most >others here) had enough lectures in school. [...]Please replace the >words "comedic talent" with "self serving scientific dialog". Then take >a deep look inward and you may eventually get the idea. I think that's exactly what's wrong with the HBD today. Too many people (who obviously didn't let those lectures on appropriate behavior sink in) who see it as some sort of garbage can for anything they can toss toward it. Truth is, it's supposed to be a forum on brewing. Period. Whether dry scientific posts or more conversational anecdotes, the topic should be brewing, because that's why the vast majority of us subscribe, and why a few notable people spend lots of time, effort, and money to keep it running. It's not some sort of bad Internet "Open Mic" forum. Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu> P.S. Steve A., I'm looking forward to the final chapter(s) of the enzyme stuff, even though I find it so dry I have to have a homebrew or three to help wash it down. And trust me, I'm not complaining! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Where in the hell? and thanks! Is Al Korzonas? I saw him at Real Ale and he was gracious enough to judge my yearly BrewRats Club comp but I never see him around here anymore... Come Al! Brewers with the information and skill you have need to be here... Come on Back! I would also like to take this time to give my yearly thanks and remind everyone of what they get for free around here. It was 4 years ago I think that I thought of taking over the HBD from the strangling date raping hands of the AOB. Instead I suckered Pat Babcock into running it. So let us give our thanks to Pat (and Karl who has also been scarce lately) for running the HBD and taking the time to even host it from home. Keep those donations rolling in and make sure you spread the word of this great resource. Hell even take the time to email Pat and Karl to say thanks. We all need a little thanks from time to time. On a final note... Where oh where did Lynne from St. Pats go to? I thought her skin was a little thicker. Lynne also had some great info brewing wise. She also was kind enough to donate some prizes to the BrewRats homebrew club annual RatFest and we thank her for that. Enough Babbling! PLAID ON BROTHER PAT! C'ya! -Scott note: no supermonkeys were used or harmed in this post ===== "Life without Plaid sucks" http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:45:37 -0600 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now! From: "Pat Babcock" <babcockp at mediaone.net> >..I've been using my filters for years with never a thought to this, and nary >a problem - now you've got me all paranoid!... My filter housing was suck on so tight I could not remove the charcoal filter, so finally after a year, I bought that plastic wrench and then I was able to easily open it. I smelled around the large 'O' ring and it stank in the nose! So now, after cleaning and sanitizing, I remove the new filter element, shake, shake and set out to dry between each brew session. I also have no way to know if this does any good. >... I now have to read each and every post coming into the queue >rather than simply recognizing the contributor's name. So much for free >time... Then let's all be grateful for the demise of NOKOMARIE!! ;>)) Ron La Borde Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:08:52 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Suck and Cut Hi All, Made it by the censors. A note to Paul N. re. his recent post of the scientific persuasion... Please stop the insanity! I can't take it anymore! and... "It's sucking my will to live!" -- Garth Algar Sorry this is not beer related. Oh, okay, how 'bout this? I'd like to know how to get that pronounced chocolate flavor, w/o the use of actual chocolate, the likes of which appears in Old Rasputin, to name one example. Am I using the wrong chocolate malt? Ideas/suggestions/observations? There, beer related--whew! Happy Holidays! Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing and Home Remodeling (almost done--yea!) Murrayville, GA P.S. monkey see, monkey do Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:20:57 -0600 From: "Tom Rutkowski" <tomr at communicationsmgmt.com> Subject: My first lager If everyone can take their minds off of poor Steve, I have a brewing related question. I am planning to brew up my first lager, but I'm not sure what temps to keep it at. The White Labs German Lager package recommends 50 to 55 degrees. Should I stick to this target? Only for the initial fermentation, or for the entire lagering time? What happens if temp is 45 degrees instead of 50? I've got a 2 inch thick foam insulation box that I keep up against the wall in my unheated garage. The wall is concrete and is against a hillside, so the temp inside the box is a constant 48 degrees +/- 1-2 degrees depending on air temp inside the garage. Think of the "Son of the Fermentation Chiller" w/o electronics and no back side. Will this temp, for both primary and secondary fermentation, make a good Marzen? Assume good sanitation, ingredients, practices, etc. BTW, I value this digest because it allows people with expertise in many different areas that have applicability to brewing to share their knowledge with everyone else. Sometimes, as in the case of Steve's enzyme post, I can't follow everything, but these technical posts allow everyone to increase their understanding of the different aspects of the brewing process. Thomas J. Rutkowski Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:22:20 -0500 From: Jim Adwell <jimala2 at ptd.net> Subject: High-tech homebrewing in orbit, anyone? >From ABC news online: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/space/2000/12/item20001221103834_1.htm Scientists develop space ale Dutch scientists are on their way to cracking one of the most urgent problems of the space era - how an astronaut can get a decent beer in zero gravity. The first challenge has been how to get the ale out of the barrel. Researchers from the Delft University of Technology have spent three-and-a-half years on the dilemma and now appear to have the ideal barrel. Britain's New Scientist magazine reports the evolutionary container has a flexible membrane which contains the beer inside the barrel. Air is pumped between the barrel wall and the membrane to force the beer out. The team has tested its invention in zero gravity on Earth and found the beer plopped neatly out of the tap, floating in identical, ping-pong ball-sized amounts. However, there is no foamy head, as gas bubbles need gravity to rise. Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:48:40 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Recipe Challenge From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org> >"Golden Ale: A crisp, lager-like blonde ale brewed with Vienna malt for >superior smoothness. Refreshing and brisk, this beer has a sweet, floral >aroma, and is an excellent introduction to the world of fresh, >microbrewed beers." > >Given this brief information, what recipe would you concoct to best fit >the description? Include yeast and hops. I've done a few TettBangers (simple, pils malt based brews, that use HUGE quantities of homegrown Tettnanger). They are crisp, golden ales with a floral character. 4 lbs German Pilsen (I like DWC) 4 lbs Vienna (I like DWC) The DWC pils malt can really stand on its own. You could forget the Vienna and go with 8 lbs of Pils. Use low mineral content water. You may add 1 gram of gypsum per gallon of mash water, so each gallon of water contains about 60 ppm Ca++. Mash at a relatively low temperature, 150F for 90 minutes. Hop with Mt. Hood for bitterness and Tettnanger for flavor/aroma 1 ounce Mt. Hood for 60 minutes, 1 ounce Tettnanger for 30 minutes, and 1 ounce Tettnanger for 15 minutes. Keep the IBUs at or below 30. You are aiming for an OG of 1.048, not more than 1.050. Adjust grain bill accordingly, and dilute before fermentation as necessary. Ferment for 7-14 days at 68F with Wyeast #1056 Chico ale, for a nice clean, crisp fermentation. If you want to use a secondary, rack after 7 days. And, of course, bottle with PrimeTab. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:05:01 From: "Steve Blanchard" <steve_blanchard at hotmail.com> Subject: IBU/HBU confusion I have been brewing for a while but am still confused over various recipes/posts that list hop amounts by IBUs or HBUs. Are these two related to each other and how do I convert IBU?hBU to actual hop weight?? TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:09:54 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Happy Hanuka O.K. my little monkeys, it is now time for your second lesson. (I know that I promised to post only once a week, but I have been feeling a bit randy of late and feel the need to really spew forth). Part 2 - Numerical Solutions and Grain Bed Parameters: Last time we developed a three-dimensional flow equation that is the basis of many groundwater flow models that can be used to simulate the flow of wort threw a lauter tun.: d/dX [Kxx dH/dX] + d/dY [Kyy dH/dY] + d/dZ [Kzz dH/dZ] + W(X,Y,Z,t) = Ss dH/dT (eq 1-1) Analytical solutions to equation 1-1 are available, but the tend to be very tedious in derivation and solving. In order to really describe three-dimensional flow of wort in a lauter system, an iterative approach commonly referred to as "numerical analysis" can be performed that solves the equation for many points in the flow system at once. These points are commonly referred to as nodes. With the availability of today's modern desktop computing power, it is possible to simultaneously solve the above equation for up to a million or more points. (This part really excites me, because I have a really big and fast machine - hehe). There are two common numerical methods that are used to solve problems of this type; the Finite Difference Method (FDM) and the Finite Element Method (FEM). This is an extremely interesting concept in higher mathematics, but I will not go into the boring details, suffice to say the following: In both FDM and FEM methods one starts with the same partial differential equation (eq. 1-1) which is discretized in the space variables X, Y, and Z. And here is the really interesting point * the derivatives must also be discretized! Can you believe it? I cant begin to tell you the joyous times that I spent as a graduate student debating this point with my advisor. Boy, those were the days. I only wish that I had saved part of the dialog so I could post it here for all of your enjoyment. Anyway, the FDM is a discrete representation at a point while FEM is a discrete representation over an area. Material properties (porosity, density, and permeability) of the grain bed are defined at discrete points in FDM. In FEM, a surface is mathematically defined allowing material properties to be defined throughout the extent. At this point I think it is prudent to explore some of the material properties that are used to describe the flow of wort through a grain bed (these will be very important later when will develop a model that describes the advective flow concentrations of wort through a lauter system using the MT3D modeling system): Advection, or seepage velocity, is the movement of the dissolved sugars in the wort along with the bulk movement of sparge water through the lauter system. This transport mechanism depends only on the properties of the grain bed, and is independent of any chemical properties of the wort. Hydraulic conductivity, hydraulic gradient, and effective porosity are all components of advective transport. Hydraulic conductivity is a measure of the grain bed's ability to transmit wort. Hydraulic gradient is the driving force for the wort flow flow and is expressed as the change in head over the distance the change occurs (either vertically or horizontally). This determines the magnitude and direction of wort flow. Effective porosity is defined as the porosity through which flow can occur (Fetter, 1993). Therefore, non-interconnected and dead-end pores are not included in the effective porosity. Hydrodynamic dispersion is defined as the mixing of sugar molecules with fresh sparge water and is a function of mechanical dispersion and molecular diffusion. Overall, dispersive processes cause some sugar molecules to move faster than the seepage velocity and others to move slower, thus causing the sugar concentration to spread out over time. This spreading allows the sugar content of the wort to move forward more quickly than would be predicted by advection alone. Because the leading edge of the sugar concentration front is made up of those molecules that have traveled more quickly than the seepage velocity, the leading edge becomes more diffuse, but arrives more quickly than advective processes would predict. We shall next explore various boundary conditions that are used in numerical models to help solve the flow equation. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Behold the power of FREEBOOTER (Any linguists out there care to take that one on?) Paul N. (a.k.a - Dr. Stevo) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:52:21 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Dry hopping & content To quote Paul, who was actually quoting Charles: (Don't you hate it when you miss stuff?!?) "What kind of thing do any of you use for the 'bag' when dry hopping? Especially if you're using pellets?" I'd like to know if anyone uses one of those stainless infusion balls. My HB shop's got 'em in a 3" diameter with fine wire mesh. I figure they're good for plugs and *possibly* pellets (fine enough mesh?), but too small in volume for cones. I'll probably give this a try as I'd feel more comfortable reusing it than I would reusing a nylon bag (for some insane reason). Now this stainless ball seems good for boiling in the kettle and dry hopping in a keg, but dry-hopping in a carboy is always a bitch. I have no trouble breaking up the plugs in the muslin bag and shoving them through the 1" opening in the fermenter's neck, but getting them out without making a mess can be a chore. Damn! Reason # 372 for going to stainless. Gotta put this on the list... While we're on the subject of dry hopping... For those who dry hop their kegs, how many leave the hops in the beer until the keg is finished (burp!) vs. dry hopping for a defined period and then separating the hops from the beer before serving? I also wonder if I could just place loose hops (plugs or cones) in the keg and use something like a SureScreen on the dip tube to filter out the hops. This then leads me into scads of questions I have regarding cask conditioning, but we'll save those for a day when the posts are either too silly or too dry. Which leads me to my next point... Content: The reason I read the HBD over any other brewing digest, chat, listserv, et. al. is because majordomo doesn't honor my request to remove me from the list - only kidding - it's for both the homebrewing content *and* the humor. This is a community, and unless you are one of the janitors, you have very little say in who is part of it. So deal with it. As in any community you will have the serious, the jesters, the lurkers, the loud-mouthed, meek, the belligerent, need I go on? The janitors have been very good with letting us moderate ourselves and I guess that's why they're "janitors" and not "moderators" (though I prefer the term baby-sitter for the latter). But one thing I have seen here more than I've seen in other groups is the amount of bitching and moaning. "He's off-topic", "He's too technical", "He called me this or that", "He's from NQLD" (OK. I couldn't resist that one ;-) Sound like a bunch of cry-baby schoolgirls. While I agree that posts should be on topic and non-beer related posts should be sent to alt.stupid.banter or something, you have to take each individual here for what they are. Case in point: I have a friend who I was warned by others to be a pain-in-the-arse (before I befriended him). I listened to this advice and took him at face value. Yes, he can be a PITA, but he's still a good friend. You have to do the same here. How many other friends come with a page down button?!? 'Nuff said. Flame On! Inspired by Mr. Peed's last post, but sung to the refrain of Proud Mary by CCR: Jokers keep on jokin', Bookworms keep on quotin' Yes I'm Scrollin'! (scrollin') Scrollin'! (scrollin') Scrollin' down your blather! Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "Designs and schemes which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice." PS. Watch out Paul, we monkeys will bite and fling sh*t when provoked ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:48:23 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: beerstone Thanks to the many who responded to my question about cleaning beerstone from Cornelius kegs. Here is a summary of responses {and my comments}: 1. Use phosphoric/nitric acid. If these are unavailable, try EDTA, which chelates the calcium in the deposit. {EDTA, what a simple idea! Does it really work?} 2. Use hot caustic followed by a phosphoric/nitric acid wash. {Traditional method} 3. Caustic then acid and/or scrubbing with a toilet brush (new!) attached to a broom handle. {Make sure that toilet brush is new!} 4. Ray Daniels says to clean it with an acid and that the March/April issue of Zymurgy will discuss cleaners in detail. 5. Three respondents said to use PBW (from 5-star, see: http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/ ) {This is an alkali cleaner. Does it really remove beerstone from kegs?} 6. Use TSP (trisodium phosphate). 7. Use B-brite. 8. Use Beerline cleaner (KOH). {Acid should be more effective} 9. Use NaOH. {Acid should be more effective} 10. Use muriatic acid (HCl). {I have heard that HCl can damage the welded joints in kegs. Others have urged me not to use it} 11. Use an acid followed by caustic. {This is contrary to accepted wisdom: caustic then acid} 12. Follow instructions as in: http://www.birkocorp.com/beerstone.asp {Nice web site} Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:07:38 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Welcome to Lauter Tun Flow! Paul graciously volunteered to join the circle jerk that I, Guy Gregory, Martin Brugaard, Steve Alexander, and Brian Kern have been working on for several years. (or maybe I am just being heckled) In his post, he notes that 3D Lauter Tun flow should look like: d/dX [Kxx dH/dX] + d/dY [Kyy dH/dY] + d/dZ [Kzz dH/dZ] + W(X,Y,Z,t) = Ss dH/dT (eq 1-1) W = SIGMA (i=1 to n) Qi d (X-Xi d (Y-Yi) d (Z-Zi) (eq 1-2) Where Qi is the extraction rate of wort through the lauter outlet; Xi, Yi, and Zi are the three-dimensional coordinates of the lauter outlet; and N is the number of outlets (usually 1 for most home set ups). Note that the Dirac Delta functions in space have units of reciprocal length (1/L). But, I don't think Darcy's Law is applicable (too many simplifying assumptions) and the experimental data does not agree with it. See http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Fluidflow.html Recently Brian Kern has been showing me that a Laplace equation is a better solution to the observed flows. (from off-line) >Here's one way to look at it. The Laplace Eqn solutions want very much to see linear changes (something like P = ay + b). The equation it solves looks like P''=0 (' is a derivative), which is just begging for a linear solution. The current is the first derivative of the pressure, so the current looks like J = P' = a, which is a constant. This means that the current is pretty much constant everywhere. Look at P = H/r^2. When we get deep enough that r < H (i.e. we're more than half-way from the surface to the manifold), it starts to look like P = const/r^2. The current, which is J = P' = const/r^3, gets enormous near the manifold. The problem with this solution is that those huge currents near the manifold aren't being supplied by the small currents far from the manifold -- you have to be spontaneously creating the water that feeds those large currents, deep inside the grain bed. This violates flux conservation, which you would say mathematically is the divergence of the current (div J = 0). That's the starting point of the Laplace Eqn solution -- and that's the one assumption I'm sure we need. Martin is examining flow solutions using the computer tools available to him, and has provided some very nicely collaborating models that look at faster flow down the lauter walls. And my good friend Steve had sent me equations a few months ago when I posted to ask how to model 3D Flow. His solutions were: >in gory detail, and substituting your inch values back in:and let's call zb =-10inch and ze=+10inch, so Z=0 is the middles of the Z-dimension in your tun. first calculate D1 = sqrt( (x-2)^2 + (y-0.5)^2) ) D2 = sqrt( (x-4.5)^2 + (y-0.5)^2) ) D3 = sqrt( (x-7)^2 + (y-0.5)^2) ) then P(x,y,z) = (8-y) * ( ( 1/D1 * (atan((10-z)/D1) - atan((-10-z)/D1)) ) + ( 1/D2 * (atan((10-z)/D2) - atan((-10-z)/D2)) ) + ( 1/D3 * (atan((10-z)/D3) - atan((-10-z)/D3)) ) ) Then just set P(x,y,z) to a fixed value and solve for the surface <all x,y,z, points) for which the eqn is true. So I think you may be on the same track Paul. Welcome to the team! John - -- John Palmer Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer How To Brew - the online book http://www.howtobrew.com Let there be Peace on Earth. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:06 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: CO2 volumes Here's a question for those who know: How many cubic feet approximately of CO2 are there at 1 atmosphere, room temp, in a standard 20lb CO2 tank? TIA. Stephen, Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 12/22/00, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96
Convert This Page to Pilot DOC Format