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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Re: 0,0 Rennerian defined (David Lamotte)
UK Travelling (Drew Beechum)
Koalas, Snow ("Thomas P. Smit")
filters ("steve lane")
electric HLT ("steve lane")
Stupid brewer tricks / Eisbock (Nathan Kanous)
Re: Egg Nog (Jeff Renner)
Re: High-tech homebrewing in orbit ("Frank J. Russo")
Kettle drains/pellet hops ("Mike Maag")
Fridge in cold garage ("Pete Calinski")
Neoprene gloves ("J. Martin")
Re. Darcy's Law (John Palmer)
Counterflow recommendations? ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
Where the wort flows ("Paul Niebergall")
Time to brew a stout... ("Greenly, Jeff")
Welcome Back Jeff Renner ("Phil & Jill Yates")
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:04:17 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: 0,0 Rennerian defined
Jeff Renner kindly offered :
> For those of you in Oz and other
> warmer climes who are lacking the snow necessary for a traditional
> northern hemisphere mood, I have large quantities available at only
> $1.00/lb. FOB Ann Arbor plus shipping and handling, insulated packing
> and dry ice extra.
Now while this would be very appropriate as after a recent hot spell my tap
water is running at 30 Deg C, I am afraid that I can buy ice for only
$0.50/lb at my local service (ie gas) station.
But I do intend to use some (home made) ice with a pre-chiller to give me a
more respectable water temp into my counterflow chiller when I brew
tomorrow.
David
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:25:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
Subject: UK Travelling
So I was a good son this year at Xmas and bought my mom a summer
vacation to England. We're looking at going over towards the end of
July or beginning of August (anyone smell an angling on the GBBF?) and
while she's worried about all the usual literary stuff (Stratford,
Cambridge, Cantebury, Hastings,etc..) I'm worried about beer
stuff. Namely what/where should I angle myself and do and see. What's
the one pub in London for instance I must make. Any and all
suggestions even non-beer related are welcome.
Gratsi.
- -- Drew
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:10:04 +0930
From: "Thomas P. Smit" <lunica at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Koalas, Snow
Now, fellas, some of you may be fed up with certain Aussie posters, but
why take it out on some harmless koalas? C'mon, return them to the zoo.
I could do with some snow, Jeff, for my bock that'l be mashed on
Saturday. Perhaps I could send you some of our sun in return.
Cheers
Tom Smit
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:05:12 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: filters
Are there any good working designs out there for a home made filter plate or
other device for filtering beer? Anybody tried to build one?
On another note, filled a corny the other nite with sanitizer from my
outdoor faucet and thought I'd better let it sit for awhile. Awhile turned
from 1 homebrew into about 5 homebrews and I decided racking brew at this
point was not a good idea. Told myself I'd do it tomorrow. You guessed it,
at 5 degrees faren., she froze solid as a rock.
Any good ideas on what to do with a corny that has a 24 inch split up its'
side? How is this material for welding? Thought about building a 1/2
barrel sealed fermenter by cutting the top off.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:27:58 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: electric HLT
I have a HLT w/ 240 volt element running on 110 house current. Element is
at the base above the welded rim and opposite that is the thermocoupler, J
type. This is hooked to a Watlow PID controller. My question is, what do
others do to get their HLT water up to temp. in a hurry. I don't seem to
get near enough power to get to 180 in a reasonable time. I have been
heating my water in the mash tun, as it has a burner under it, and then
pumping up to the HLT but this is a real hassle.
The element is used to just hold the water at the correct temp. in this
arrangement. I have run the controller up to, say, 400 to keep the element
turned on but even then, it takes forever to get the water up to temp.
Is there enough convection in the tank to not require stirring? I have been
stirring now and then so that the thermocoupler sees more of the fluid.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:35:34 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Stupid brewer tricks / Eisbock
Hi All,
Life is pretty good in Wisconsin....if you like it cold. I brewed an
oatmeal stout on Saturday. I ran the hose from the CF chiller
outside....by the time the water got into the hose it froze. Blew one of
the fittings off my Phil's Chiller. Sprayed water all over me and the
garage. Luckily, I was able to get the exit hose to thaw quickly because
of the hot discharge water and once flow was established, things went just
fine. The brew is fermenting quietly in the basement....at 60 deg F, ambient.
Yup, it's been cold in Wisconsin. I believe it was 22 degrees below zero
(farenheit) on Dec 24 or 25. It got me thinking (dangerous thing). I said
"Self, if it's going to be this friggin' cold, may as well make an
Eisbock." Kind of like that "if life gives you lemons, make lemonade"
addage. So, input would be appreciated.
I would make a regular old dopplebock (or maybe just a bock for lower final
volume). Then I'd have to freeze it. Carboy? I'd be a little worried
about expansion of the ice and the resulting loss of all that precious beer
should the carboy break. Any experiences? I'm still afraid of that.
What about freezing in the corney keg? My first thought was the dip tube
would freeze and restrict flow. No dip tube would make putting one in the
keg post-freeze potentially difficult. My final thought was to freeze in
the keg, remove the frozen dip tube and replace with a clean warm dip tube
immediately prior to "racking" to another keg. Anybody done this? Does it
sound like it would work? I would then proceed with counterpressure bottle
filling.
Any thoughts, suggestions, or outright lashings would be appreciated. I
haven't brewed enough beer lately. TIA.
nathan in madison, wi
PS anybody ever frozen an ale like this? Eis-scotch ale?
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:48:03 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Egg Nog
Egg Nog Fans
You may remember my recent email with my father's egg nog recipe,
which he adapted from an old Four Roses ad and made every holiday
season. Among the people I sent it to was Gary Regan, author of a
number of fine books on whiskies and cocktails
(http://www.ardentspirits.com). He sent me this email:
>Jeff:
>
>Many thanks for the egg nog recipe--I'll try it out soon.
>
>Do you know Dale DeGroff? He was head bartender at NYC's Rainbow
>Room, and is widely known as one of the country's leading cocktail
>experts. He told me a story once about an egg nog recipe created by
>his uncle which, if memory serves, was submitted to Four Roses and
>used in an ad campaign. It's possible that your recipe is based on
>Dale's uncle's recipe! What a coincidence! I'm going to forward
>your e-mail to Dale and see if, indeed, it's the same one.
>
>Have a great holiday season, and a happy and healthy 2001.
>
>Cheers, Gary
And then this one (below), which really fills in the history in a
wonderful way. Thanks, Gary! What a wonderful addition to the
story. This recipe looks a little less rich than Dad's, maybe more
to my taste, actually, although I think I like more bourbon than rum.
One interesting difference is that Dad folded the beaten egg yolks
into the beaten whites. Another is the use of spiced rum, which one
of you said she uses. I hope you'll try them both, or experiment
yourselves for your own holiday tradition.
>Hi Jeff:
>
>I wrote to Dale DeGroff, and sure enough, the original recipe came
>from a relative of his! Here's what he wrote back:
>
>Hi Gary,
>
>Sorry about the empty e-mail. The recipe that Jeff's dad adapted from the
>Four Roses ad was My Grandmother's brother's recipe. He submitted the recipe
>to them in some kind of contest and the four Roses Pr people or who ever
>handled the advertising in those days sent a release for him to sign for its
>use on the bottle and in ads. His name was Dominic Gencarelli, he owned a
>Granite quarry in Rhode Island among other things. He was an engineer and
>figured out a way to build stone jettys into the ocean without renting barges
>and tugboats. His Italian stone cutters cut the stone in the quarry in such a
>way that on side the stone was flat and the trucks could drive out on the
>jetty as it was being built. he built a lot of the jettys along the east
>coast especially in New England, but some here on Long Island as well
>
>He always had two bowls of the punch at Christmas , one for the kids and one
>for the grown-ups...here is the recipe., and incidently what made the recipe
>special was its lightness twice as much milk as cream and the white of the
>egg whipped stiff and folded in to the mix , so it was almost like clouds on
>top of the egg nog;
>
>EGG NOG (Uncle Angelo's) 1 batch (6 people)
>6 eggs (separated)
>1 qt. milk
>1 pint cream
>1 tbsp. ground nutmeg
>3/4 cup sugar
>3 oz. bourbon
>3 oz. spice rum
>Beat egg yolks well until they turn light in color, adding half a cup of
>sugar as you beat. Add milk, cream and liquor to finished yolks. Then beat
>egg whites until they peak. Fold whites into mixture. Grate fresh nutmeg over
>drink.
>
>Cheers
>Dale DeGroff
>aka <A HREF="http://www.kingcocktail.com/index.html">King Cocktail</A>
>
>http://www.kingcocktail.com/index.html
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:58:03 -0500
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: Re: High-tech homebrewing in orbit
- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:47:15 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re:High-tech homebrewing in orbit, anyone? AND how to chill it
Well, there is a second problem. Chilling the beer.
- -----------------------------
This conversation has been very interesting. I find it curious how those
involved with space programs are striving to make things work in space
environments just the same as they would here on mother earth. Well, I
guess you have to start somewhere and you start with what you already know.
Why would one want to build a cooling unit for use in space that operates /
functions the same as a cooling unit here on the ground? It seems to me
with the void / cold of space just outside the shell of the craft there
would be someway of using that 3 Deg K to cool the beer. If you shut the
heaters off in the craft the craft would freeze. So why is it not possible
to build a heat exchanger type of apparatus with the external cold and use
it to do the cooling? This is instead of compressors which are high energy
users. Someone with a little knowledge out there care to increase my
knowledge?
Frank Russo
ATF Home Brew Club
New Bern, NC
"There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:19:59 -0500
From: "Mike Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Kettle drains/pellet hops
I use a "T" shaped Easymasher/Surescreen TM kettle drain (design stolen from
Al K.,
see picture at): http://www.brewinfo.com/mybrewery97/mybrewery3.html It
works fine
with pellet hops if you don't use Irish Moss and do let the wort settle for
1 hour after
chilling. (I use a planispiral immersion chiller which automatically piles
the hops and
trub in the center of the kettle bottom and chills 11 gal from boiling to
70F in 20 min).
The hops need to settle to the bottom so they don't get sucked into the
screen holes.
Mike Maag, Shenandoah Valley
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:18:12 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at iadelphia.net>
Subject: Fridge in cold garage
Forrest
You have told us many times about what we should do with a fridge in a cold
ambient. Just what problem(s) will result if I don't take any precautions.
I have had a fridge in my garage for over 20 years before I saw your advice.
The ambient has gotten quite cold. In fact, beer outside the fridge has
frozen while that inside didn't freeze.
Does it just not function or am I doing damage?
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
Note my new email address is:
pjcalinski at adelphia.net
The service via my old address at iname.com had become unreliable.
Sometimes email was delayed as much as 36 hours.
Some never came through.
iname.com is a part of mail.com. Repeated emails about the problem to their
service address have gone unanswered. If you know anyone that uses
either iname.com or mail.com, you should consider telling
them that they may have a problem also.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Pete
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:35:57
From: "J. Martin" <jmartin213 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Neoprene gloves
hope the holidays treated everybody well...
Santa brought me some small brewing goodies. One of these items is a pair
of very thick gloves for squeezing spent grain bags. Question though:
These beauties are marked "sanitized" and it says they're made out of
neoprene. Problem is, they have a very strong "plastic-y" smell to them.
I'm worried about introducing glove related off flavors to the wort. Should
I be worried? Anybody have any ideas about this?
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:35:08 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re. Darcy's Law
Paul posted on the usefulness of Darcy's Law in discussing lauter tun flow.
I had made a mistake in context with a previous post where I was discussing
How/Where water flowed thru a tun, saying:
>But, I don't think Darcy's Law is applicable (too many simplifying
assumptions) and the experimental data does not agree with it.
Paul rightly points out that it does apply, shows how it works, and gives
an experimental range for the hydraulic conductivity of a grainbed K of
0.1-.5 ft/minute, which is the same range that Guy Gregory reported in
1997. Nice to see that their data agrees.
What I had been trying to say though was that Darcy's Law (as modified by
Wessling (1973)) see http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Fluidflow.html
did not answer for us How and Where the sparge water flowed thru the lauter
tun. Guy and I had been trying to describe how many drains you needed to
adequately rinse the grainbed using Darcy's Law and discovered that even
though Darcy's Law says that 1 pipe will completely drain the lauter tun -
Draining is not Lautering. Brewers are not draining grainbeds, we are
rinsing them. The euclidean model I derived matched the experimental
observations of flow. IE. the shape or coning of the flow to the drain(s)
matched the vectors of the gradients predicted by the model.
And that was the immediate goal: find a model that describes how sparge
water flows thru a grainbed so we could better determine the design of our
lautering manifolds. Yes, it is a simple model. Yes, it is a 2D model. But
it works: it describes in general what has been observed experimentally in
the fish tank. Recently Brian Kern has shown me how a Laplace equation
describes the gradients in a linear fashion (as opposed to my logarithmic)
and his equations demonstrate the increased flow velocity at the walls that
the geotechnical and hydrology engineers say should be there. Thus, I don't
think we are on the wrong track. Maybe it is a slower track because I seem
to be driving, but I am confident we will get there. Any help anyone can
contribute is welcome.
Six months ago, I posted to the digest asking for help in determining a 3D
model, several people responded, and the consensus so far is that the shape
of the gradients in the 3rd dimension (ie along the length of the manifold
tubes) is elliptical (ie. slightly squashed hemisphere). Another way of
describing it is to say that the drain potential at the midpoint of the
manifold's length is higher than at the ends, due to the integral of the
available drain sights along the tube.
On the other hand, this result begs the same question with false bottoms.
Experimental evidence did not show higher flow potential in the center of
the tun as demonstrated by where the dye emerged thru the false bottom.
Perhaps the change in flow resistance from the grainbed to the manifold is
high enough that a unit of water sees a fairly flat gradient along the 3rd
axis. Hmmm, time to break out the corncobs and food coloring again.
Well, that's enough out of me. Cheers!
John
- --
John Palmer
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com
Let there be Peace on Earth.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:01:05 -0600
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu>
Subject: Counterflow recommendations?
As the proud owner of a brand new 2-tier brew tree RIMS system
(handmade by Phil Endacott) I now find myself wanting a speedier
method of cooling my wort than ye olde immersion chiller. Are there
any top-flight recommendations? Only the best for my new toy!
Thanks!
-BDB2
Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:24:54 -0600
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Where the wort flows
Jon Palmer wrote:
>>Guy and I had been trying to describe how many drains you needed to
>>adequately rinse the grainbed using Darcy's Law and discovered that even
>>though Darcy's Law says that 1 pipe will completely drain the lauter tun -
>>Draining is not Lautering. Brewers are not draining grainbeds, we are
>>rinsing them. The euclidean model I derived matched the experimental
>>observations of flow. IE. the shape or coning of the flow to the drain(s)
>>matched the vectors of the gradients predicted by the model.
I am not sure where you are going with
the "rinsing" versus "draining" idea. And
I dont see how you can say that you used
Darcy's law it to "predict that 1 pipe will
completely drain the lauter tun". It has nothing
to do with how something drains. If you are
talking about un-confined conditions with a
free fluid surface than you need to
take into account a few other parameters of porous
media flow such as the coefficient of storage and
the specific yield. There are also characteristic
drainage curves that can be developed to
describe the relationship between saturated,
tension saturated, and unsaturated
flow conditions. But all of that is neither here
nor there, because it is way outside of the realm
of simple flow hrough a lauter tun. (Save
the drainange charactistics for another day).
>>And that was the immediate goal: find a model that describes
>>how sparge water flows thru a grainbed so we could better
>>determine the design of our lautering manifolds.
Simple to do. Use partical tracking package interface with a
3-D flow model and you will get a good picture of the flow
lines showing exactly where the water flows. Or better yet,
use an interface that solves a three-dimensional advection-
dispersion equation for solute transport
and get the concentations (wort gravity) to boot.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:35:48 -0500
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Time to brew a stout...
Greetings from the mountains of West Virginia....
Well, with a foot or two of snow on its way, I decided to get myself over to
Slight Indulgence, the local gourmet shop, for brew stuff. I have decided
that, should I get snowed in, I want to have plenty of provisions on hand to
brace myself against the bitter cold and snow. I should interject here that
I am fully aware that a WVa winter has nothing on what my respected brethren
in the Midwest are going through, but then, y'all don't really have to drive
in three dimensions, either...;-)
I have decided to brew a stout, and as this will be my first serious attempt
at a stout, I'd like to make it memorable. Here's what I've got so far...
Rusty Nail Outmeal Stout
Water
1 tsp gypsum
Extracts
3.3 lbs John Bull Dark Extract
3 lbs Munton's Amber DME
Steeping Grains
1 lb roasted barley
.5 lb black patent malt
.5 lb 120L Crystal Malt
1 lb oatmeal
Hops
2 oz Northern Brewer at 8.5 (60")
1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (30")
1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (10")
Yeast
Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale (I'm going to try a starter-never done that before)
Other Stuff
I'd like the benefits of experience here. I'm thinking about adding some
unsulphured molasses and some licorice. Should I also be adding
malto-dextrin or lactose, or is this overkill with the oatmeal?
My targets for this beer (if I'm doing the math right) are:
OG: 1.056
TG: 1.017
ABV: 4.5%
IBU: 25 <=====figuring this always confuses me!
SRM: 40
I'm figuring about a week in the primary, 2 weeks in the secondary, and
bottle conditioning (w/light DME) about 2-3 weeks. Am I in the ball park?
Peace,
Jeff
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:52:43 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Welcome Back Jeff Renner
Jeff
How good to have you back with us and resettled on your throne at the centre
of the brewing universe.
Sadly I have to report that in your absence some members of the HBD started
a dreadful ruckus and some terrible insults were flung back and forward
across the pond.
At the height of it Graham Sanders came out of the closet and declared
himself to be Australian (though the rest of us have never accepted this).
And just when the fire seemed to be dying down Graham sprayed it with high
octane fuel and it was all on again. Oh it was a horrible mess.
Never mind
To help mend the bridges I have sent yet another bottle of rice lager to an
American. This was my very last bottle.
Just after New Year Doc Pivo will be back at Burradoo Estate for a combined
brew day. I am going to let him run the show and we will be creating one of
his much loved Czech pilsners. This was the beer style which caused so much
argument between the Doc and Steve Alexander regarding technique and
technology. It will be ready for trialing in late February and the Doc plans
to be back here for that occasion. Of course Wes Smith will be here and
hopefully Dave Lamotte will make it down from Newcastle.
I will make sure I bottle some for use as gifts in the event that Graham
causes any further catastrophes here on HBD.
In the mean time Jeff, I'm sure things will run smoothly now that you are
back at zero zero. And you even have a GPS to prove it.
Good luck to all in the New Year, Australians and Americans alike. And even
to that pomme blighter Tony Barnsley.
Cheers
Phil
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