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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
120VAC RIMS: How to brew the lower power way... ("Dave Howell")
Aussie Insults (Tony Barnsley)
Fridges in cold ambients (fridgeguy)
Summertime musings ("Thomas P. Smit")
pitching practices ("Gregg Stearns")
Re: Welcome Back Jeff Renner (Jeff Renner)
Re: Time to brew a stout... (Jeff Renner)
Samichlaus Recipe (Alan Monaghan)
flow question for john palmer and back mixing ("Czerpak, Pete")
Re: High-tech homebrewing in orbit ("Pete Calinski")
electric HLT (The Freemans)
RE: electric HLT (LaBorde, Ronald)
Re. Rusty Nail Oatmeal Stout (John Palmer)
electric HLT, chilling in space (EdgeAle)
Re: cooling [beer] in space (Teutonic Brewer)
Soapy beer - revisited (Beaverplt)
HLT (Mjbrewit)
Water Supply, Mash Screen, Cleaning Chillers ("Keith Christian")
Michael Jackson's The Chiller ("Dave Howell")
first batch question (Rogers Michael B)
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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:50:41 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at qwest.net>
Subject: 120VAC RIMS: How to brew the lower power way...
All:
After two brews with the new RIMS, and several replies from my earlier post
on how well do people do with 120VAC heaters for their RIMS, I have found
the answer.
INSULATE!
Actually, this was most people's response. Thanks to all who responded.
My setup is with Sanke kegs. Just adding an uninsulated lid to the mashtun
probably gained me back 0.2 degF/min on temp boosts. This puts me in the
1.2 degF/min range (with a 5-gallon batch). I'll be insulating the rest of
the setup except for the vinyl return line with 1/2" polyethylene foam and
hook-and-loop strips for closures. This should get me closer to the max
theoretical rate.
The other big-bang-for-the-buck answer is to pre-heat the strike water on my
propane burner.
Lesser effect suggestions are to keep the return manifold under the level of
wort (do NOT get started on HSA, people), and the mash thick (1.25-1.33
qts/lb) to reduce the thermal mass that must be heated.
I'll still probably upgrade to 220VAC someday, though, but I've spent enough
$$$$ for a while.
My last brew of the millenium will be tomorrow, 15 gal of a boh. pilsner.
I'll be doing decoctions (what! with a RIMS? WHY?) to make the temp boosts
short on 22 lbs of grain and 30 qts of water. Amazing how fast one can go
through 50 lbs of grain in 3 large brews, isn't it?
Dave Howell
Brewing in the warm, sunny Sonoran Desert, where I visited the driving range
in short pants and a tee shirt today. But, I'm glad to hear the center of
the brewing universe is now precisely located.
Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.
Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:09:27 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Aussie Insults
Phil Yates Wrote
> even to that pomme blighter Tony Barnsley
Now just one cotton pickin' minute! If you keep flinging slander like that
around you will end up in court milord! Lets get this right please! I am NO
POMME!! I'm welsh through and through (And yes I know that creates a whole
load of other problems!! :> )
Is it true that most of the Australian transportees were sent over because
they were bad brewers? Or is that a scurrilous rumour?
;-'>
- --
Wassail!
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK
Managed by home brewers for home brewers
To Subscribe send blank email to uk-homebrew-subscribe at smartgroups.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:30:11 -0500
From: fridgeguy at voyager.net
Subject: Fridges in cold ambients
Greetings folks,
In HBD #3516, Pete Calinski asked what problems might result
from trying to run a fridge compressor when it is colder than the fridge or
freezer interior.
Here's a clip from a previous post...
One last thing... If a fridge or freezer is used in a situation where the
ambient temperature is more than a few degrees cooler than the
cabinet temperature, do not attempt to run the compressor until it has
warmed above the cabinet temperature for at least 12 hours. The
reason for this is that the refrigerant will tend to accumulate in the
coolest part of the system. If the compressor is cooler than the
cabinet, refrigerant may collect in the compressor crankcase.
Refrigerant is an excellent solvent and will dilute the oil. When the
compressor is started, the pressure in the crankcase quickly drops,
and the refrigerant will flash into vapor as it is drawn into the
compression chamber/s.
There are two problems with this. The refrigerant will carry the oil
with it, leaving the compressor without lubrication, or even worse,
the compressor will try to compress a liquid slug of oil/refrigerant,
which will quickly destroy the compressor.
Compressor crankcase heaters are available for situations where a
compressor must be located in a cold location.
Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy at voyager.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:07:27 +0930
From: "Thomas P. Smit" <lunica at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Summertime musings
Hi all,
As I sat to my dinner of tomato soup for the second day in a row,
followed by grilled fish and tomato salad, thinking about the pasta &
tomato bake planned for tomorrow and fortfying myself with homebrew
(Sarah Hughes Ruby Mild, thought originally it tasted too soft but since
I had twentyfive bottles of the stuff that I didn't want to waste I did
acquire a taste for it in the end) my mind turned idly and tipsily to,
ta ra, *tomato* beer!
I must explain that summer being here and several plants of at least
half a dozen different types of tomatoes each producing prolifically
tomatoes are on the menu and on my mind. But tomato beer offers several
advantages over, say rice lagers and peach beers. For example, adding
tomatoes to the mash solves the problem of bringing the mash pH down to
5.2 or so. No need to run out and buy some gypsum or lactic acid!
Of course, tomatoes are a hearty sort of a fruit so a pansy wheat beer
wouldn't do-you'd need something a bit more robust, like an IPA or
Russian Imperial Stout, might be more in the right direcction.
Semiseriously, anyone tried to make a tomato beer?
Hic.
Tom Smit
PS: for the sake of fellow antipodean brewers not as well read as
myself, colour used to be spelled as 'color' in England until in a bout
of snobbishness the language was frenchified and 'color' (harbor, etc)
was changed to 'colour' (etc) and 'fall' changed to 'autumn'. So there,
the yanks actually have it right. TS
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:05:59 -0600
From: "Gregg Stearns" <gregg at ispi.net>
Subject: pitching practices
I just started brewing beer again after a year long break. The last few
batches
turned out bad, all because I didn't take the right steps (mostly, not
enough
stirring to aerate the wort prior to pitching).
I did everything right this time though, but I'm wondering if I
should've prepped
the yeast better.
My question is: What do all of you do?
1. just add the dry yeast to the fermenter and that's it
2. proof the yeast and then add it
3. make a starter and then pitch that when it's taken off
I'll watch the list for replies, but feel free to send a copy of your
response to
gregg at ispi.net as well.
- --
Gregg Stearns
http://members.nbci.com/Malcor/
ICQ# 3190139
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:09:23 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Welcome Back Jeff Renner
Thanks to Phil for the welcome back. I have now caught up on the HBD
and can see that it goes all to hell when I'm not around to maintain
high standards.
Regarding Graham's observations of cultural differences and "taking
the piss out of someone." I think he's on to something there, but
some of us Yanks participate as well, although not on as general a
basis as you Aussies. My brief visit to the Buradoo train station
might qualify.
I was in a great pub in Essex a couple of years ago and was
appreciatively sampling a real ale, when the landlord, a real
character who calls himself the Cypriot bastard, bawled for the whole
bar to hear, "Oh gawd! Not another looker and sniffer! Just drink
the bloody beer!" Fortunately, I was on to him, and realized he was
jerking my string (not, I think, pushing my buttons, which I think
implies malicious intent), and I quickly replied, "I'm just making
sure you're not trying to poison me." This broke the ice and he
roared appreciatively, and we got on great after that. I think it's
important to give as good as you get in this.
It is too bad that the internet doesn't allow the nuances that make
this more successful. I'm pretty sure that we'd get along a lot
better over a beer or 243 at the Hilton, and find that most of us
liked one another pretty well, even those who have locked horns on
HBD. At least that has been my experience at conferences like MCAB,
although every once in a while there's a jerk.
I hope we get a report on the brew session with Doc et al, and in
February on the results. Will Marilyn be participating?
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:08:00 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Time to brew a stout...
Jeff Greenly <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> wrote from the mountains of
West Virginia:
>I have decided to brew a stout, and as this will be my first serious attempt
>at a stout, I'd like to make it memorable. Here's what I've got so far...
>
>Rusty Nail Outmeal Stout
>Water
>1 tsp gypsum
>Extracts
>3.3 lbs John Bull Dark Extract
>3 lbs Munton's Amber DME
>Steeping Grains
>1 lb roasted barley
> .5 lb black patent malt
> .5 lb 120L Crystal Malt
>1 lb oatmeal
Here are a few thoughts. First, you probably don't need the gypsum
unless your water is very soft, and maybe not even then. Gypsum
provides calcium necessary when mashing grain, which you are not
doing. It also provides sulfate, which makes the hop bitterness
sharper. This is not necessarily desirable in oatmeal stout, where
you want more of a rich roastiness than bitterness.
Secondly, that's an awful lot of dark grains, especially since you're
already using dark extract. I happen to not like the burnt charcoal
flavor of black patent malt when used at that level. But that's
maybe just me. But I think it will make for a sharp tasting beer
rather than the mellowness you might want in an oatmeal stout. You
could increase the crystal malt to get more color and caramel
richness, and maybe use chocolate malt instead of black patent.
Now for the oatmeal. It contains starch that is unfermentable. It
might still make a contribution, and starch haze is no bog problem in
stout (although it can invite bacterial growth). But how about
adding a pound of two row malt to your steeping grains and making it
a mini-mash? This will convert the starches in the oatmeal and give
you additional extract. Without converting the oatmeal, you'll
probably come up short on your target OG. Of course, the two row
will add fermentable extract, too. You might want to cut the amber a
little bit. Or not.
>I'd like the benefits of experience here. I'm thinking about adding some
>unsulphured molasses and some licorice. Should I also be adding
>malto-dextrin or lactose, or is this overkill with the oatmeal?
It's a matter of preference. Subliminal amounts of molasses and
licorice can be nice, but they should play supporting roles, not
starring roles. The sugars might give some richness, but I like to
keep it simple. Depends on how sweet you want the final beer to be.
>My targets for this beer (if I'm doing the math right) are:
>OG: 1.056
>TG: 1.017
>ABV: 4.5%
With steeping grains and minimashes, this is always a crap shoot, but
I think you won't get that much extract from the steeping grains
without a minimash. The malt extract alone should give you about
1.046.
>Hops
>2 oz Northern Brewer at 8.5 (60")
>1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (30")
>1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (10")
>IBU: 25 <=====figuring this always confuses me!
Looks like it. Lets see if I can make it clear as mud. One IBU
represents one ppm isomerized alpha acid in solution. Your Northern
Brewer hops contain 8.5% alpha acid, but you can't ever get all of
that into the wort. But in a one hour boil, you might typically get
as much as 30% of it if you are using pellets, or 25% if you are
using whole hops. I'm guessing that you're using pellets. So, if
you multiply your utilization of 0.30 times the amount of alpha acid
in your hops (0.085*2 ounces), you'll find that you have about 1/2
ounce of alpha acid in five gallons of wort. So divide by five
gallons, and you will get the concentration of alpha acid in
solution. A little math will convert it to ppm.
It's easier to use a Hop-Go-Round circular slide rule on an online
calculator like Glenn Tinseth's hop bitterness calculator
http://realbeer.com/hops/IBU.html.
From the latter, we get 55.6 IBU for your first addition. Way too
bitter for the style, and more bitter than your target. You'll get
12.6 from your second addition and 5.9 for your third addition, for a
total of 74.1. Looks like you could cut your hops by 2/3s and be
about right.
>SRM: 40
>I'm figuring about a week in the primary, 2 weeks in the secondary, and
>bottle conditioning (w/light DME) about 2-3 weeks. Am I in the ball park?
Should be good, but longer than necessary. If you make a good
starter, you should finish the primary more quickly, and you needn't
keep it two weeks in the primary. Try racking it to the secondary
with a packet of gelatin heated in a cup of water or the green beer.
That will settle it out quickly. And corn sugar will fine for
priming.
Good luck.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:07:37 -0500
From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com>
Subject: Samichlaus Recipe
Having just found out that this wonderful beer is being made again, I don't
have to be quite as careful with how I share and enjoy it.
My problem comes in that I really, really like this beer but I have
absolutely no idea how to start on the road to replicating the beer itself.
In looking thru the archives and out on the net, there is very little to
start with.
I was hoping that someone out there may have had some luck with one of their
recipes or even better, some type of discussion on a starting point with the
malt bill and the hopping.
As a side note, I just finished up my house beer (an IPA) and am not too
thrilled with it this time. It has a lot of mossy flavor in it and I was
wondering if that could be because I used pellets in the 2ndary versus the
whole hops I usually use or if there is some type of ratio or some such that
would explain such a change in the beer itself?
Happy holidays from Cincy Ohio!!!
Be like water my friend ...
Alan G. Monaghan, MCSE+I
Gardner Publications, Inc.
Internet Administrator
* Phone 1-513-527-8867
* Fax 1-513-527-8801
* Cell 1-513-520-6866
* E-mail AlanM at Gardnerweb.com <mailto:AlanM at Gardnerweb.com>
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:24:14 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: flow question for john palmer and back mixing
RE: Homebrew Digest #3489 (November 28, 2000)
John palmer:
Just taking a look through some old HBD that I hadn't deleted yet.
You make some conclusions based on your experiments with the corn and piped
manifolds as well as false bottoms. #4 conclsuion for false bottoms has to
do with too high a lautering rate and bed compaction with a false bottom.
Do you also see this to the same degree with a proper manifold design.
Since the bed is probably not compacting to the same degree in the volume
surrounding the manifold compared to the bed volume surrounding the false
bottom?
Which would have a more negative impact on extraction or stuck drainage -
false bottom or manifold?
I would think that the higher drainage surface area of the false bottom
would allow better extraction but perhaps its infact worse since a larger
part of the grain bed may be compacted? Don't know but perhaps your dye
experiments could identify this at high rates.
Have you ever thought about generating a residence time distribution based
on color/adsorbance of the liquor threough the bed for different lautering
rates to determine how much back mixing is going on to effect the simplistic
modelling of the bed as plug flow?
Just a pre-New years technical question.
Thanks,
pete czerpak
albany, NY
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:02:33 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: High-tech homebrewing in orbit
Frank Russo
>Why would one want to build a cooling unit for use in space that operates /
>functions the same as a cooling unit here on the ground? It seems to me
>with the void / cold of space just outside the shell of the craft there
>would be someway of using that 3 Deg K to cool the beer. If you shut the
>heaters off in the craft the craft would freeze. So why is it not possible
>to build a heat exchanger type of apparatus with the external cold and use
>it to do the cooling? This is instead of compressors which are high
energy
>users. Someone with a little knowledge out there care to increase my
>knowledge?
We weren't allowed to ask that question. We got into the project very late.
Before they came to us, others had started with a "faster, better, cheaper"
refrigerator from a Recreational vehicle. Then, the Safety people stepped
in and said the R12 coolant used could saturate the scrubbers that remove
the CO2 from the air. They had to change to another coolant. This coolant
was less efficient and so impacted the energy usage. It was also a smaller
molecule and as a result leaked through the seals faster. In addition, we
had to meet a spec. that said that the unit had to maintain temperature with
a 40 watt (I may be wrong on the wattage) light bulb burning inside. Even
your home refrigerator can't do that. In use, nothing in the refridigerator
would generate heat. Everything would just have its residual heat that had
to be removed. Like urine samples. Start out near 98.6F and cool in
minutes to refrigerator temperature.
That was the lemon we were given to make lemonade with.
I can take a crack at your original question. First of all, it had to
function from before launch until after landing and until the contents could
be unloaded. Second, I would say that anything that penetrates the shell
of the orbiter is going to get more attention than a turd in a punch bowl.
Don't forget that the entire surface is covered with special tiles to keep
the orbiter cool during reentry. Any kind of protrusion is a real problem.
Also, this refrigerator was to be used in the Space Lab which was a module
that fit in the cargo bay of the orbiter. Unless the cargo doors are open,
the outer surface is not exposed to "space". Thus, the "outdoors" ambient
is unreliable. Also note, some space craft have a "barbecue" mode where in
they rotate continuously to keep the "sun" side from getting too hot.
Just a shot at answering your question.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^42'13.1" North, 4^49'34.5" East of Jeff Renner (using his 12/28/00
Lat/Long).
This signature file is automatically attached to my emails.
Note my new email address is:
pjcalinski at adelphia.net
The service via my old address at iname.com had become unreliable.
Sometimes email was delayed as much as 36 hours.
Some never came through.
iname.com is a part of mail.com. Repeated emails about the problem to their
service address have gone unanswered. If you know anyone that uses
either iname.com or mail.com, you should consider telling
them that they may have a problem also.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Pete
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:10:22 -0600
From: The Freemans <potsus at Bellsouth.net>
Subject: electric HLT
A single 220 element running on 110 volts is just not sufficient to
raise an appreciable amount of water (10-15 gallons) to proper brewing
temp. Think how long it takes an electric stove to accomplish the same
thing - and an electric range is running on 220 volts.
"the perfesser" has 2-4000 watt water heater elements running on 220
volts. This amout of heat input is sufficient to raise 14 gallons of
water at 60 degrees to a strike temp of, say, 140 degrees in around
15-18 minutes.
What you have is barely enough BTUs to maintain temp once the HLT
contents are brought to the required temp. That required temp is best
reached in your system by the method you outlined - heating in the mash
tun and pumping to the HLT.
Heat changes in "the perfesser's" mash tun for step mashes are gotten by
running the HLT at a constant 170 degrees and recirculating that water
through one side of a heat exchanger.
Natural convection is sufficient to keep the whole thing uniform.
"the perfesser" can be found at: http://www.brewrats.org/HWB/er/
Hope this helps,
Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:15:41 -0600
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: electric HLT
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
>I have a HLT w/ 240 volt element running on 110 house current.
Oh Steve, I have bad news for you. I am afraid your 240 volt element is not
running, it's crawling on 110 volts. If the element is rated at 4500 watts,
then it will only draw 1/4 of that at 110 volts.
With my 4500 watt element running on 240 volts, it will take about 15-20
minutes to bring 10 gallons of room temp water to a boil. So all you can
expect is 4 times this long under the best conditions.
Check around, you may have 240 volts available. Look at the wires coming to
your power meter. If you see three conductors, you probably do have 240
available.
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:46:27 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re. Rusty Nail Oatmeal Stout
Jeff asks for comments on his extract based Oatmeal Stout recipe in Digest
#3516:
A couple details were omitted like batch size and boil volume but I will
make a couple educated guesses from the recipe and assume that it is a 5
gallon recipe and his boil volume is 3 gallons.
First I verified his OG calculation and came up with 1.056 too.
But the IBUs are way off from what I get. From the volumes above, I get a
boil gravity of 1.093 and the hop additions come out like this:
2 oz Northern Brewer at 8.5 (60") 40 IBUs
1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (30") 9 IBUs
1 oz East Kent Goldings at 5.0 (10") 4 IBUs
for a total of 53.
Here is what I would suggest:
1. You are already using Dark Extract, so the Black Patent is definitely
redundant. In fact a pound of Roast Barley is redundant to a degree, but
that is the backbone of Stout flavor, so I would cut it back to a half
pound. If you have never used Black Patent before, it has a real acrid edge
to it. I would not use it. When I do use it, I use it with an all-grain
recipe where I don't have other dark malts. If I have other dark malts
(like chocolate) I use only a quarter pound.
2. Don't go overboard with adjuncts. After the first few batches, everyone
wants to ferment everything under the sun for complexity. Hey, I did.
My advice is restraint. Don't screw the girl on the first date. Wait until
you get to know her a bit better. Try brewing a more basic stout first to
see where the flavors come from. Of course if you never intend to brew
another stout after this, go for it. ;-)
I really wouldn't add the molasses. You get a molasses character - fusel
alcoholic sweetness that detracts. Turns a quaffing beer into a sipping beer.
Licorice - if you like it, fine. But go easy on it. I can't recommend an
amount unfortunately. You want a background flavor.
You might add a quarter pound of maltodextrin powder for body. I don't
think you need lactose with the Crystal 120 and the extracts - you will
have residual sweetness from those.
3. Unfortunately Oatmeal needs to be mashed. Even Quaker Instant oatmeal.
Otherwise you just get a lot of starch added to the wort, which will give
you beer farts. I would suggest ordering Oatmeal Extract from Williams
Brewing or another mail order supplier or taking a stab with a mini-mash
(see my book for help).
4. On your IBUs: 53 is a bit much. Given the high about of roast malts, I
would recommend dropping the first hop addition from 2 oz to 1 oz for a
total of 33 IBUs. That would be a bit more balanced for a stout.
Dang. Makes me hungry for a stout...
Cheers!
John
- --
John Palmer
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com
Let there be Peace on Earth.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:10:36 EST
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: electric HLT, chilling in space
Steve Lane asks about increasing electric HLT heating rate,
I have an electric HLT with lots of convection (stirrer motor). The
convection increases the heating rate somewhat but it still took a long time
to heat. Here's what I now do:
1) Use a second heating element. This cuts the heating time in half. However,
a second element also doubles the current required and probably will require
to be run off a separate circuit than the first to avoid tripping the breaker.
2) Use elements sized to just avoid tripping the breaker. i.e. a 6500W 240V
element will be 1625W at 120V and draw 13.5 amps which is good for a 15 amp
circuit. Of course, this requires you to have nothing else on the circuit or
it will trip. Depending on your current element size, this could gain you a
little but not much, i.e. if you have a 4500W at 240V = 1500W at 120V , the
increase would be 1625/1500= 8.3%.
3) use a timer: I have a timer hooked up in my circuit so the HLT can start
heating before I get up. This way it doesn't matter how long it takes. The
water is ready when I am, Drawbacks include: a) you have to plan in advance
to brew and stick to it. b) leaving the cold water in the HLT overnight can
lead to rusting of the element base (i now use a timer to fill the HLT just
before the heater timer turns on to avoid this).
4) Don't forget to use a stirrer in addition to the above to get the maximum
heat rates.
5) Insulate the HLT to cut heat losses and thus increase the temperature
increase rate.
I hope this helps. One thing I should mention is that it still takes longer
to heat a HLT with 2 elements than it does with a propane burner but the
above should dramatically decrease your heating times
PS: I actually plasn to switch to your method (heat in another vessel then
pump up & use element to maintain temp) shortly but this has little to do
with heating time. The cost of electricity has increased by a factor of 10
over the past year in San Diego due to deregulation and poor state planning!
- -----------------------------
Pete Calinski asks about chilling beer in the void of space
One problem with this is the vacuum. Without contact with molecules there is
no conductive or convective heat losses, only radiative which is the most
inefficient. In fact, I have heard that (at least for some space
craft/satelites) the problem can be getting rid of excess heat from the
electronics etc. Of cource as this is hearsay I could be completely wrong.
Of couce with 3K ambient temp, inefficient cooling is probably required to
avoid frezzing the beer in aeven a short coil.
Dana
- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
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Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:15:40 -0700
From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com>
Subject: Re: cooling [beer] in space
Hello all in homebrew land. If you have an aversion to detailed (vaguely
beer related) mechanical and technological issues, please page down NOW.
Frank Russo talks about chilling beer in space:
>Well, there is a second problem. Chilling the beer.
>
> This conversation has been very interesting. I find it curious how those
>involved with space programs are striving to make things work in space
>environments just the same as they would here on mother earth. Well, I
>guess you have to start somewhere and you start with what you already know.
>
> Why would one want to build a cooling unit for use in space that operates /
>functions the same as a cooling unit here on the ground? It seems to me
>with the void / cold of space just outside the shell of the craft there
>would be someway of using that 3 Deg K to cool the beer. If you shut the
>heaters off in the craft the craft would freeze. So why is it not possible
>to build a heat exchanger type of apparatus with the external cold and use
>it to do the cooling? This is instead of compressors which are high energy
>users. Someone with a little knowledge out there care to increase my
>knowledge?
FWIW, I'm an electrical engineer with 13 years experience in the satellite
sensor field. Although I'm not a refridgerator-in-space expert, maybe I can
satisfy your curiosity.
Yes, you can cool things using the 2.7 Kelvin (minus 454.8 Fahrenheit)
temperature of deep space with a passive or radiative cooler. A large,
metal, flat black, radiator surface faces toward deep space and radiates
energy away. A heavy metal bar or strap conducts heat from the desired
object (like an infrared sensor in my case) to the radiator surface.
Ammonia filled "heat pipes" can be used to conduct large quantitites of
heat from an object or structure to the radiator surface.
A problem arises with, for example, the International Space Station (ISS).
Half the time the ISS is in the shadow of the earth, and it's relatively
easy to point a radiator toward deep space. The other half the time, the
sun is baking one side of the station, and the earth, which radiates at
about 300 Kelvin (27 Celsius), is on the other side of the station. This
requires that the radiation surface be pointed *sideways* to the sun-earth
axis and also be shielded with reflective mylar from both heat sources. It
can be a challenge to keep that radiator pointed correctly. Interplanetary
space probes, the Next Generation Space Telescope and the Chandra X-ray
telescope that spend all or most of their time far from the earth have a
much easier job of keeping a radiator pointed toward deep space. It also
takes quite a large radiator surface to get much cooling power.
Mechanical motors and compressors for cooling in space are a challenge.
Lubrication is a problem since grease doesn't flow well in zero gravity.
Some kind of lubrication reservoir such as a large piece of felt
impregnated with grease must be provided for long term operation. If the
compressor gets really cold (-40C or even lower), like in the time between
launch and when you first fire it up, the grease will be so viscous you
can't start it. Exotic molydenum sulfide coated bearings are sometimes used
to ammeliorate the lubrication problem. Furthermore, the compressor seals
must be extremely tight to prevent loss of refridgerant, and vacuum tends
to desiccate and crack normal seals in a hurry. Mechanical compressors of
various types are used in space, but they always have long term reliability
issues.
You can also regulate the temperature of a metal box by attaching it to the
warm metal spacecraft surface on one side and adjusting the amount and
number of layers of reflective, mylar covering on the exterior box faces.
Electrical heaters glued to inside of the box walls are used to adjust the
temperature as necessary.
So how can beer be kept cold on the ISS? Some kind of mechanical
refridgeration system would be the most likely method. The ISS has the
volume and power necessary to support a heavy and relatively inefficient
motor driven compressor. The waste heat from the refridgeration unit can be
sunk into the space station's metal structure and help keep the interior
warm. Alternatively, an insulated cold box could be constructed using heat
pipes to suck heat from the box and maintain your optimum 7C (45F) serving
temperature.
I would worry about how you might consume the carbonated beer. You could
put your mouth on a dispensing nipple and squirt the beer into your mouth,
but the carbonation would come out of the beer in all directions (there
being no "up" in space), and you'd have a mouthful of foam. Then, if you
tried to burp the gas up, I think you'd burp the beer along with the carbon
dioxide. To illustrate the difficulty, try hanging upside down and burping
some CO2 up without the beer coming out your nose at the same time.
As to how you would mash, sparge, boil, chill, ferment, and separate the
yeast from the beer in zero gravity in the first place, you would have to
use a sealed system with filters, pumps and compressible bladders to move
the liquid around and separate the wort from the mash solids and the beer
from the yeast and so forth. That would be a heck of an engineering
challenge, but remember that necessity (or rather, great thirst) is the
mother of invention...
Any home brewing NASA thermal-mechanical engineers out there want to chip
in or correct me on any points?
Paul Claassen
Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:49:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Soapy beer - revisited
You all may recall that a couple of months ago I
opened my first bottle of an oatmeal stout that was my
first try at grain/extract and found it tasted soapy.
My assumption was that is was soap and that I hadn't
rinsed very well. A few wise ones amongst the group
cautioned me not to dump the batch out quite yet
because it may not be soap, but rather that it hadn't
aged enough yet and the taste might be not soap but
the hops in an immature beer. It's been 2 months now
so I just tried another bottle last night and found
the soap taste is gone. At least it is in that bottle.
What I also discovered was the flavor is a little
weak. It appears my extraction was not very good.
All in all, I'd say I learned quite a bit from this
one batch. Thanks to everyone who helped and
encouraged me.
I'm ready for trying an all grain recipe. SWMBO gave
me a new 15 gallon brewpot for Christmas along with a
request for a cherry beer. I found a recipe in "Joy"
called Cherries in the Snow. Has anyone tried it?
In a previous digest I saw the question
>What's a fair dinkum?
Actually "Fair Dinkum" hails from the civil war era of
US history. If you remember that the uneducated slaves
hailed their new found freedom by thanking "Mr
Linkum". Well Fair Dinkum was Mr Linkums younger and
less famous brother. He left the US in ignominity,
which is a sailing ship not unlike a surfboard and
landed in Queensland where he pretends to be both a
government employee like his brother and a craftbrewer
which we know is impossible anywhere where the drains
swirl in the wrong direction.
Hoppy Brew Year
Beaver
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:27:55 EST
From: Mjbrewit at aol.com
Subject: HLT
You don't say how big your system is or how many watts your element puts out.
I use two 110 volt 1500 watt electric elements for my 10 gallon system ($7
bucks each), and it gets my water to 180 in roughly an hour, give or take a
few minutes. No thermocoupler, no controller or anything fancy. Being 110
volts all I do is put them on a standard cheapo timer, which starts the
heating prior to my waking, so the strike water is ready to go when I step
out of bed. I use the dial on the timer as an on off switch for a manual
control switch. I also use the HLT to heat my sparge water during the main
mash (usually 60 to 90 minutes anyway), so I find this more than sufficient.
I guess my recommendation without knowing more details, is to try a timer. I
can also tell you my HLT is a sanke keg wrapped in water heater insulation.
I also usually cover it with a lid and put a towel on that. Hope that gives
you some ideas. Sometimes simple is better.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:27:58 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: electric HLT
I have a HLT w/ 240 volt element running on 110 house current. Element is
at the base above the welded rim and opposite that is the thermocoupler, J
type. This is hooked to a Watlow PID controller. My question is, what do
others do to get their HLT water up to temp. in a hurry. I don't seem to
get near enough power to get to 180 in a reasonable time. I have been
heating my water in the mash tun, as it has a burner under it, and then
pumping up to the HLT but this is a real hassle.
The element is used to just hold the water at the correct temp. in this
arrangement. I have run the controller up to, say, 400 to keep the element
turned on but even then, it takes forever to get the water up to temp.
Is there enough convection in the tank to not require stirring? I have been
stirring now and then so that the thermocoupler sees more of the fluid.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:54:31 -0800
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Water Supply, Mash Screen, Cleaning Chillers
HBDers,
A few questions for you all.
I have upgraded my system to include half inch
tubing and fittings. Something that would work
very well with my set up is the Ss braided water
supply line that are available from hardware stores.
The half inch fittings on the ends are perfect! I am
told they have tethlon tubing inside, which I recall is
high temp tubing, but I am not sure. What do you
think of using it to move mash or boiling liquids?
I removed the Ss braiding from a section of a water
supply line and recrimped it on to a compression
sleeve. It looks similar to the SS mesh used in the
Easy Masher TM type setup but the tubing makes a
complete circle around the bottom of the kegs.
Has anyone done this? Have you used it during the
mash and/or the boiler?
Did you use a pump? I am concerned that the
braiding will get clogged or possibly promote
channeling where the braiding lays.
My chiller was left out in the back yard for a few
months. It is a very dark brown. If I clean it with
vinegar or B-brite, how long should it sit before
using it? Would letting it sit in clean water be of
any use? Or just let it drip dry and put back in
plastic?
Since my son was born 4 months ago, I have not
had a chance to read HBD. If you have any
comments to make regarding my questions, please
CC a copy to my email address:
{ HYPERLINK mailto:kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us }kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us
TIA
Keith Christian
Chatsworth, CA
Maltose Falcons
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:04:01 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at qwest.net>
Subject: Michael Jackson's The Chiller
All:
I just finished my third brew on the RIMS, a 10 gal boh. pilsner.
Everything was way ahead of schedule, all times right on the nose, looked to
be a four-hour brew session, including cleanup, when disaster struck: my CF
chiller, cleaned just minutes before with hot lye then hot phos. acid,
clogged. I must have broken something loose in there... just like a Dodge
Dart w/slant-6: never put oil in them, 'cos you'll only break out the
lubricating sludge built onto the bearings, then the motor will fail...
So, I had to resort to resourcefulness, break out the raw material stash,
and with 15 feet (3m) of 3/8 copper and my CF chiller aquarium pump (the
hose/cold water temp in Arizona is usually 76 degF to over 90 degF, so I use
a small pump and ice: lotsa ice) I built... an IMMERSION CHILLER.
Now, Dr. Pivo and Jack Schmidling aside, I hate the idea of immersion
chillers. It took me almost 1 1/2 hours to chill this behemoth of a
bohemian below basically balmy blood/bathwater (how's that for consonance?)
temps. If I had had about 50'(16m) more of the stuff, I might have cooled
it faster. As it was, I was shaking and swirling it like crazy. If I have
an infected batch, I will be sorry as hell, but I won't be surprised (be a
pessimist, that way you only get pleasant surprises).
It looks like another trip to the HW store for 3/8 copper tube for a new
counterflow. The obstruction is at least 10 feet (3m) into the tube, is
defeating 1/8 steel cable being poked in there, and I've been itching to
build a new CF chiller anyway.
Of course, this will have to wait for many moons as the Christmas bills will
be rolling in. Besides, I now have 10 gal of Renner's Father's Moustache
(as opposed to his father's Egg Nog), 10 gal of APA, and now, 10 gal of Boh.
Pilsner (maybe I'll call it Millenium Rhapsody, or perhaps Take Two Pilzn
Call Me in the Morning, or maybe something even punnier). I should not need
to brew until some evil deciever tricks me into thinking I can enter, nay,
even win, a competetion. Should be around March. Coincidentally, I'll
probably be running dry around then...
On the other hand, I went to the driving range yesterday, and in the four
months since I've swung a club, I seem to have forgotton how to hit anything
taller than a sand wedge...
Dave Howell
In sunny Arizona, to where approximately 2.7 million people from Michigan
moved since the last Census. The rest are from Minnesota.
Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.
Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:36:44 -0500
From: Rogers Michael B <avatar at hemc.net>
Subject: first batch question
My father and I just brewed our first batch. We were trying to
approximate the Dortmunder label. We used Cooper's pilsner hopped malt
extract and Glenbrew light malt extract (per the homebrew store owner's
reccomendations). What we ended up with was ALMOST 5 gal. with a SG of 1.56
(1.056?). Question is: Do I need to adjust the SG in any way to make this
beer better? Can I do it without oxygenating the beer to the point of being
better off not doing it in the first place?
Further note: Considering the ruckus that's been going on in the HBD, I
immediately turned my Australian can of Coopers upside-down in anti-Aussie
sentiment (never mind that's how you're supposed to open it.)
Cheers!
Ben Rogers
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