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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re:  Samichlaus Recipe ("Bob Poirier")
  Re: Microwave Rims ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Replies (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Ancient history beer tastes (Jeff Renner)
  Happy New Year, sugars ("T & S Klepfer")
  Whirlpool/cooling delay and increased bitterness ("Hardter")
  Wild Hops: Alpha Acid Determination? (Aaron Gallaway)
  Canadian Recipes ("Bret Mayden")
  Re: Mash Stirring using a Rotisserie Motor? (stencil)
  re: Hops and horses... ("Stephen Alexander")
  RE: microwave RIMS?,Thanks to HBD, Pat, Karl, Wort Aeration, elec (LaBorde, Ronald)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
* Happy New Year 2001 from all of us at HBD.ORG!
*
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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 00:47:29 -0800
From: "Bob Poirier" <bpoirierjr at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:  Samichlaus Recipe

Greetings!!

It's 01/01/01, 12:29am in CT, so I guess I hafta start off by saying
Happy New Year/Millenium to all!!

OK, now back to business...

On 12/30/00, Alan Monaghan asks for any info regarding this legendary
brew.  Check out http://beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001422.html,
the second part of the article titled "Enter Samichlaus".  Michael
Jackson gives some clues regarding malt bill, mash regime and hops.

Hope this helps!!

Bob Poirier, aka Bubba
East Haven, CT




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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 10:33:14 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Microwave Rims

I would not ever penetrate the shielding of a microwave oven.  Not if you
want children that is.  Actually the effects could be more than that.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^42'13.1" North,  4^49'34.5" East of Jeff Renner (using his 12/28/00
Lat/Long).






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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 11:37:48 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Replies

Graham Sanders wrote:
>But Jeff, I have
>wonderful bottled HOT North Queensland  climate here I am
>willing to trade.  Tell you what you send the snow over and I
>return the packaging full of that wonderful air.

Come on, I ain't that gullible.  You've got a deal, but by weight, 
not volume!  I'll send a couple of pounds of snow, and you can return 
an equal weight of climate.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 11:36:50 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient history beer tastes

Jim Wilson <jim.wilson at home.net> wrote:

>In the mid to late 50's, growing up in Tucson, I'd occasionally taste my
>Dad's and his friend's beer.  My Dad liked Coors, which I remember as being
>tasteless (some things never change!) and his friends liked other brands.
>Lucky Lager and Schlitz are ones I remember but there may have been others.
>  The Lucky Lager/Schlitz group had a taste I can't find today.  It may have
>been a sweetness, I don't know.  Certainly, my tastes have changed and
>maybe this is a profile I can't duplicate or even perceive now.  I read
>about CAP and CACA and think maybe these beers would be similar but I know
>Rolling Rock (with its DMS) is nothing like the flavor I remember.  Would
>any HBD readers have any thoughts on what these flavors might have been and
>what home brews might duplicate them?

Want to see something eerie?  Look at what I posted here in 1994 
(when it wasn't possible to change my wife's name to mine on her 
email account, which I still use):

>Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 20:11:23 -0500 (EST)
>From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
>Subject: Old Cincinnati Beer styles
>
>(From *Jeff* Renner)
>Growing up in Cincinnati (College Hill) in the 1950's, I would
>occasionally be given a sip of beer - Burger, Schoenling, Hudepohl,
>Weidemann's.  Perhaps it was my innocent palate, but those beers seemed
>to have a flavor and aroma profile that I haven't found since.  They
>seemed to be so, well, in a word, "beery."  They seemed almost pungent,
>and slightly sour (not, I presume, defectively so).  I occasionally get
>a faint whiff of this evocative aroma when opening an American Pilsner,
>but it is fleeting.
>
>I hope to recreate an old Cincinnati beer.  Probably a great part of this
>is the hopeless chasing of childhood memories of an exaggerated scale
>(remember how BIG your elementary classrooms were, and how TALL the tree
>in front of your first house was?).  Will-o'-the-whisp or not, I solicit
>digesters, especially from Cincinnati, for any information they may have
>on these beers, especially grist bill, hopping types and levels, and
>yeasts.

Weird similarity, huh?  This was my first step in the process that 
led to my recreation of Classic American Pilsner.  A CAP provides 
this flavor occasionally to me, as does an occasional German Pils and 
a few others.  But it is rare.  I think it's in part hops - noble and 
others such as Cluster, but since the occasional German beer has it, 
it can't be only Cluster.

At any rate, I suggest that you brew a CAP and even if it doesn't 
have that elusive "beery" flavor that we both remember, it will still 
be closer to what beers tasted like back then than anything you can 
buy.  And once in a while, it will transport you to your back yard c. 
1958.

See my Brewing Techniques article from Sept/Oct 1995 
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue3.5/renner.html 
and my latest thoughts in Sept/Oct 2000 Zymurgy, unfortunately not 
available online.  (Hope this changes).

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 10:53:58 -0600
From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas at indian-creek.net>
Subject: Happy New Year, sugars

New Millenium Happy New Year greetings to all!  (You too Graham.....by the
way, you're being uncharacteristically subdued these days.  What's up?  Too
much hot air and longan lambic?  SWMBO taken the p!ss out of you?  Marilyn
migrated North?)  Hope all of you have a great year.

I have been reading with interest about two simple sugars in the news: 
d-mannitol and xylitol.  Both are apparently not metabolised by the body,
and have anti-bacteriological properties.  As I understand, these sugars
act like soap or detergent, in that bacteria can not maintain a "grip" on
whatever tissue they have infected, and are "washed" off, and presumably
expelled from the body or dealt with by the immune system.

So, naturally I wonder if   1) Would yeast metabolise these sugars, or
would they result in residual sweetness?  2) Would they be bacteria-static
in wort or beer?  3) Toxic to yeast?  

Although these sugars are naturally occurring, d-mannitol in fruit and
xylitol in birch trees (aka birch sugar), they are pretty expensive to buy.
 I think about $15American per pound for xylitol.  So my questions may be
pointless, practically speaking.  Do any of you scientist types have any
comments?  (Please keep your answers to 1000 words or less)  Think about
it, another way our craftbrews could be good for us.

Gritar  
(that's Shout in Spanish)

Thomas Klepfer
  


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Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 13:08:44 -0500
From: "Hardter" <hardter at rcn.com>
Subject: Whirlpool/cooling delay and increased bitterness

Hello everyone,

While reviewing Miller's Homebrewing Guide, I came across his opinion that
aroma hops placed in at the end of the boil added almost as much bitterness
(as bittering hops) when the boil is whirlpooled and left to sit for 30
minutes. Can this be accurate? Whirlpooling and letting it sit for 20-30
minutes is my standard procedure. And with my cooling with a CF chiller
taking an additional hr. for 11 gallons, these finishing hops are in contact
with the hot wort for a long period of time. Are my planned IBUs being
significantly increased by this process? Again, thanks in advance for your
input.

Steve


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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:43:37 -0800
From: Aaron Gallaway <baseball_junkie at hotmail.com>
Subject: Wild Hops: Alpha Acid Determination?


To the collective,

     I live in Nagano Japan and I am an avid all-grain brewer(about once
a week). I live in a pretty rural village. There are LOTS of farmers
around me. I recently approached a nice lady who, I noticed while hiking
near her house, has about 400 chickens. She sells eggs to local co-ops
and village grocery stores. I got tired of finding different places to
dispose of my spent grains(since I have a septic tank and have to pay by
the liter to have it emptied once a month) so  I worked out a deal to
trade my spent grains for farm fresh eggs. She was elated at the idea.
Anyway, when my girlfriend and I took the first batch up to her she
showed us around her property a bit...it's HUGE(by Japanese standards
mind you). SHe then asks me if I use hops. I tell her "of course" and she
then asks me if I can use these and proceeds to show me these BEAUTIFUL
WILD HOP VINES!!! I was stoked and amazed at how prolific they were.
Unfortunately this was in early November so they had all gone to seed
and were useless but she told me next summer when they come due and ripen
up I am welcome to as much as I can use as she obviously has no use for
them. Which brings me to you all...Is there any way I can find out what
species they are and or their Alpha Acid value??? Thanks for you input
and to everyone AKEMASHITE OMEDETO GOZAIMASU...Happy New year in
Japanese.

 

Aaron




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Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 23:54:42 -0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com>
Subject: Canadian Recipes

Does anybody know of any recipes for Canadian brews?  Microbrewery quality, 
not the megabrews.  Thanks.
Bret Mayden
brmayden at hotmail.com




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Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:41:14 -0500
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Re: Mash Stirring using a Rotisserie Motor?

On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:10:53 -0500, 
"Branam, Mike" <Mike.Branam at BellSouth.COM> wrote:

>------------------------------
>
> [ ... ] Do any if you have any ideas in the
>Rotisserie Motor? Do you think that is will work?
>
>
I use a Skil #559 1/5hp 3/8-in hand drill banded to a plywood bracket.
The impeller is bandsawed fron 2X2 maple, about 5-in tip-to-tip, and
is pinned to standard 3/8-in birch dowel.  Because it's a
variable-speed drill with a trigger lock (this is Massachusetts) I can
set the speed to about 30 rpm during mash-in and then run it up to
about 200 rpm as the mash loosens with rising temps.  I think the very
low speeds of the spit motor would require an extraordinarily large or
deeply pitched impeller - like a joint-compound mixer - that would run
the torque requirements over the edge.  Further, in my rig at least,
there would be a heightened chance of interference with  the
collection manifold (1/2-in pvc water pipe, bandsaw slotted and
wrapped in aluminum flyscreen secured with tyraps.)  If you _do_ have
to go fishing into the mash at ca. 150F, soaking your hands in
icewater beforehand helps.  A little.

stencil sends
RKBA!


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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 22:46:41 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Hops and horses...

>My wife's horse's vet said mixing spent grains into his feed (the
>horse's) is good for his digestion.   He was unsure of hops..

Spent grist is used as cattle fodder, but in limited amount (~10-20% of
diet) since it has little caloric value and significantly degraded vitamin
content.  The wet grist becomes moldy & bacteria laden quickly and you don't
want that in the feed,  so it might be smart to give the grist a quick boil
if it won't be used in 24hrs.  Smarter still to reject content-free
roughage beyond 20% and place it a compost heap.

Spent brewing yeast is a rich source of vitamins and is also fed to cattle,
but it's very high in purine bases - hard for any mammal to digest in
quantity  ... moderation is needed..

It's unlikely you'll find any examples of hops being fed to cattle as
examples, and I'd avoid it unless you've a very reliable source that says
it's OK.   Problems w/ hops in cattle feed would likely include   -
phenolics tainting milk of dairy cattle, bitterness avoidance by cattle, and
hops-like phenolics in other plants are known to reduce nutrient absorption,
esp protein.  Those aren't great concerns for a well fed horse, but the
greatest *potential* difficulty is that unlike hairless primates,  ruminants
prefer to die of cholic rather than rudely regurgitate an offending meal.


[mash hopping]
>I haven't been giving Kim the results of that because I was unsure
>of the hops.

Perhaps you could slip a little in her breakfast cereal and see how it goes,
but I think she'll notice the hops & husks.  Better Kim than the horses, but
now I see what she  meant by, 'the monster is back'.

On a related note -  leaving spent grist around for birds or deer in winter
is a nasty trick likely to kill.  They're not clever enough to realize the
calories are missing and to forage elsewhere.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 22:43:46 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: microwave RIMS?,Thanks to HBD, Pat, Karl, Wort Aeration, elec

>From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
>
>Ron, I sincerely dislike contradicting one who smote the
>contentless Philistines of Oz, and I don't have a table under my
>nose, but 4500W will NOT boil 10 gallons in 20 minutes or
>even 40.

Well, it sure seems like less than 40 minutes.  Tell you what.  As soon as
this miserable 45 degree F. weather improves, I will drag the old rig out
and put it to the test, stopwatch in hand!  Results TBA.

>From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
>
>        On another tack, could I just run the air line sans aerating stone
>right into the wort? Would this be effective at all for aerating, and how
>long would it need to be in there?

I have been using my racking cane, yes, including the end cap!  It makes
quite a stir.  I connect the pump through that small aquarium line to the
output end of a 5/8 or so ID syringe.  Then after stuffing a cotton ball or
two inside the syringe, I place a small rubber stopper over the curved end
of my sterilized (oops, sanitized) racking cane and this goes into the open

After pitching, I let it run at least 4 hours.  Four hours at first, now
after reading (on the HBD) about yeast quickly using up all the dissolved
oxygen in less than an hour, I let it run for 12 to 24 hours.  This way the
yeast are getting a steady continuous supply of oxygen.

>From: "Al Beers" <albeers at hotmail.com>
>
>Just want to thank Pat and Karl for providing us all with a great forum on
>homebrewing. The collective has answered many questions for me, and made me
>a better brewer. Thanks to y'all. Have a happy, hoppy New Year!

Thanks Pat, Karl and the entire HBD.  FYI Pat, the web page is lots faster
on the new cloud - seems about 50% faster than before, and it was fast then!

>From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>

>I am interested to know if anyone has considered the use of a Microwave
Oven
>for a RIMS implementation?temperature changes done manually.
>
>Any ideas or thoughts?

Sure have, this clip from my HBD post sometime in May 1998:

"I am growing weary thinking about all this, so I will probably go on to the
next RIMS design - let's see, hmm, microwave oven, 750 watts, seems good,
high temp plastic tubing RIMS chamber, seems good, stuff into oven, seems
good, now for those pesky radiation leaks..."

Ron La Borde

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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