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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Gusses as to composition of a brew? ("Dave Howell")
  Cloning Samichlaus (Drew Beechum)
  Re. Pete's Flow questions/Brewing in Space/ Cu Chiller cleaning/ (John Palmer)
  Re Aussie Insults ("Grant Stott")
  Reply to "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> (Furrybeer)
  Replies (craftbrewer)
  Mixing Fruit, Pommes And North Queenslanders ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  oxidized beer (Warandle1)
  Lambic pitching schedules (Keith Busby)
  Samiclaus (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Samiclaus (mchahn)
  Castaway brewing ("Sean Richens")
  Bruschetta ale, bock (Tom Smit)
  RE: electric HLT ("Stephen Alexander")
  Hops and horses... (Some Guy)
  TPOS, Guinness tang & Stout recipe ("Glen Pannicke")
  Phil's Bottle filler (JDPils)
  BrewSource .2 (DRC5522)
  Wort Aeration ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Time to brew a stout, revised... ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Ancient history beer tastes (Jim Wilson)
  Thanks to HBD, Pat, Karl ("Al Beers")
  microwave RIMS? ("Rick Wood")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
* Happy New Year 2001 from all of us at HBD.ORG!
*
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Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:55:33 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at qwest.net>
Subject: Gusses as to composition of a brew?

All:

Wow, I posted three times in one day!  I've gotten the sickness, too...

SWMBO bought some lager for me the other day, since she shipped so much of
mine around the world (OK, just the US), to friends and relatives that I had
none left but an ale style *I* don't like, but others do (brown Christmas
ale).

It's (the lager) called Dundee's Classic Lager, and it's from somewhere in
New York.

It tastes initially of something caramelized/burnt, like toasted
barley/wheat, then fades into a classic adjunct profile (corn), then lingers
with a nice bitterness.  Moderately refreshing, lively, medium-dry, about 28
IBU?

But, I cannot identify any of it for sure.

Can anyone make a guess as to it's composition (malt grist bill, hops type,
yeast?).  I'd love to brew some (later, I've used up a whole mess of beer
bullets lately).

Thanks a gazillion,


Dave Howell
Somewhere amidst the Arizona cactus and mesquite, it's winter, and the
desert dweller's fancy turns to thoughts of golf...


Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.

Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:17:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
Subject: Cloning Samichlaus


Okay.. so our club, the Maltose Falcons, and specifically our
president (Kevin) got bored and decided to try and fil the void (now
refilled professionally) so here's the version that we brewed a few
weeks ago (~ Dec. 6) (This is straight from the Maltose Falcons
website at http://www.maltosefalcons.com/)

without further ado : Falconsclaws (for 5 gallons)

Pilsner Malt         German   25.75 lbs
Crystal 65L          German   3.0 lbs
Vienna Malt          American 1.50 lbs
Amber Dry Extract    Royal    1.0 lb
Dark Candy Sugar     Belgian  1.0 lb

Mash - 1.2 qt/lb
First rest - 124F
Second rest - 154F
Mash out - NO SPARGE

Styrian Goldings  Whole  4% AA  1.75oz 60 min
Hallertauer Mittelfruh Whole 3.8% AA 1.5oz 15 min
Hallertau Hersbrucker Whole 2.3% AA 0.50oz 2 min

Yeast : 2 Qts. Wyeast #2206 - Bavarian Lager
      : Once that dies (and it will) we hit with Dry Sherry Yeast to
	finish.

This is a No Sparge Beer Collect ~6.5 G and boil for 90 minutes 
We did this and got a beer that was an 1.139 OG and made a second
runnings beer that was ~1.040 (10 G).

The last version was uncorked at the brew and this years version will
be ready in December 2001.

Cheers

- -- Drew

> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:07:37 -0500
> From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com>
> Subject: Samichlaus Recipe
> 
> Having just found out that this wonderful beer is being made again, I don't
> have to be quite as careful with how I share and enjoy it.
> My problem comes in that I really, really like this beer but I have
> absolutely no idea how to start on the road to replicating the beer itself.
> In looking thru the archives and out on the net, there is very little to
> start with. 
> I was hoping that someone out there may have had some luck with one of their
> recipes or even better, some type of discussion on a starting point with the
> malt bill and the hopping. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:56:20 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re. Pete's Flow questions/Brewing in Space/ Cu Chiller cleaning/

(need to repeat the questions)
RE: Homebrew Digest #3489 (November 28, 2000)

>You make some conclusions based on your experiments with the corn and piped
>manifolds as well as false bottoms.  #4 conclsuion for false bottoms has to
>do with too high a lautering rate and bed compaction with a false bottom.

>Do you also see this to the same degree with a proper manifold design.
>Since the bed is probably not compacting to the same degree in the volume
>surrounding the manifold compared to the bed volume surrounding the false
>bottom?

Anecdotally, I recall very few stuck sparges with manifolds, but it seems to
be an almost common problem with false bottoms. No certified data though.
While I myself have experienced an occasional poor extraction, I have never
had a stuck sparge with my manifolds.
My best guess on why this is, is that false bottoms - under high flow rates
 - can uniformly compact the grainbed, leaving no path for flow. Manifolds do
not draw as uniformly, so if and when compaction occurs, another flow path
becomes available elsewhere.

>Which would have a more negative impact on extraction or stuck drainage -
>false bottom or manifold?

Hmmm, if I understand the question right, I would say that the propensities
are:
#1 Stuck sparge due to too fast a flow rate thru a false bottom (ie.
compaction).
#2 Lower extraction from a manifold system low area coverage (ie. inadequate
design).
#3 Lower extraction from a false bottom due to compaction.
#4 Stuck sparge with manifold due to compaction.

>I would think that the higher drainage surface area of the false bottom
>would allow better extraction but perhaps its infact worse since a larger
>part of the grain bed may be compacted? Don't know but perhaps your dye
>experiments could identify this at high rates.
Flow rate is an important parameter. The recommended rate is no more than 1
quart a minute. (I forget how we the HBD derived that number but I am
thinking that it may come in part from this posting of Darryl Richman's
(which I still have saved on my Mac).

Posting 4: Extracted from file:  1506
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 10:31:47 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Lautering

gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) writes:
> I do not believe optimal run off times scale well with respect to brew
> volumes. A striking case in point is provided by the recent article

One of the interesting things I learned while researching "Bock", and
which I included in the book, is that the folks at Weihenstephan have a
general recommendation for lautering decoction mashes at a pretty slow
rate, which is based on the surface area of the lauter tun (assuming a
uniform depth and a uniform drainage).  By specifying the rate per
square area, they are really describing a particular flow rate of fluid
through the bed.  The rate recommended was approximately 1 gallon / (6
minute * square foot) to start, speeding up to 1/4 as the wort thins
out.  (I'm quoting from memory, always a dangerous thing.)  These
figures are quoted from volume 2 of Narziss' "Die Technologie der
Bierbereitung".  Also, Narziss indicates a shallower bed for decoction
mashes than Hough et al in "Malting and Brewing Science" do for
infusion mashes.

> "Lautering: Back to the Basics" which appeared in MBAA Tech. Qr.
> (Vol.30, No.3, 1993). The authors are senior brewers at Millers, and
> they describe their lautering procedures in detail. There is much here
> of conceptual interest, their intriguing mash up/vorlauf procedure being
> a case in point. However, their flow rates, which range from 700-750
bbls./hr.
> for the first wort to 900-1000 bbls./hr. during sparging, are of zero
relevance
> for us. Their batch size is 1100 bbls., and they collect 1200 bbls. of sweet
> wort to get this. Counting up the times quoted their total time is
near 120-130
> mins.

It would be interesting to know how their flow rates compare to those
suggested by Narziss.  One might expect a mixed mash system such as
Miller/AB/Coors employ to behave more like a straight infusion than a
decoction, since most (90% or so) of the barley malt husks do not
undergo boiling.

                --Darryl Richman


>Have you ever thought about generating a residence time distribution based
>on color/adsorbance of the liquor threough the bed for different lautering
>rates to determine how much back mixing is going on to effect the simplistic
>modelling of the bed as plug flow?

Ummm, no, but it's a good idea. The best I have done is to take pictures of
the test bed at intervals to show where color was and was not. Unfortunately
those pictures were snapshots that were not labeled and I no longer can tell
which is which. I need to redo most of the early experiments anyway for an
article I am working on, so I can capture that idea better.
//

Pete Calinski and Paul Claassen gave a good rundown of the problems with
brewing in space and being in the aerospace industry in general. I spent 7
fairly enjoyable years on the Space Station project and there were several
of us homebrewers that would chat about the difficulties to be faced in
making Atomic Oxygen Ale, RAD Lager, and ImpeachThatCongressman Wheat beer.
Well done. Did you know that the ISS when completed will have a large degree
of curvature due to differences in thermal expansion from the sunside to the
backside? We in Materials and Processes were supposed to help Passive
Thermal fix that problem. I think we got it half fixed. We'll see.
//

Keith: Use vinegar to get it relatively shiny, and rinse it well before use.
You don't need to age it at all. Bright copper will turn to dull copper with
use. Dark copper will come off in the wort, so that's why you should clean
it, but don't get it mirror bright because that will put copper in the wort
too. Go for dull.

Dave: Whatever possessed you to put hot caustic and hot phosphoric thru a
copper chiller? Egad, no wonder it choked. Those solutions are way too
aggressive for copper, I wouldn't be surprised if you put holes in it.
For cleaning organics from copper, use PBW (but not as a long soak). For
cleaning heavy oxides, use vinegar. For sanitizing, use iodophor. Starsan is
rather aggressive to copper due to its phosphoric content.
//


Cheers!
John



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 07:58:01 +1100
From: "Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: Re Aussie Insults

Tony Barnsley said   >"! I am NO
>POMME!! I'm welsh through and through (And yes I know that creates a whole
>load of other problems!! :> )
This statement has to be viewed with suspicion as both first and last names
are pronounceable.
He then goes on to say >"Is it true that most of the Australian transportees
were >sent over because
>they were bad brewers? Or is that a scurrilous rumour?

This is absolutely true. The ones that refused to learn from their mistakes
became brewers at CUB.  XXXX. Toohey's etc.
Those who were repentant for their past sins & were willing to learn became
the best all-grain homebrewers in the world.

Grant & Yvonne Stott
Geelong Vic Australia





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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 03:33:51 EST
From: Furrybeer at aol.com
Subject: Reply to "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> 

From: Scott Vernon, Melbourne, Australia <Furrybeer at aol.com.au>
Subject:Reply to "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> (Time to brew a 
stout...) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 


Jeff,
Greetings from Melbourne, (Downunder) Australia....

You have asked for some advice with respect to  'Rusty Nail Oatmeal Stout' 
recipe. 
Looks good. What is the volume (in Litres)? Recheck your IBU calculations, 25 
appears to be a little low (especially if the 2 oz Northern Brewer  at  8.5 
(60") are hop pellets).

Secondly, you will need to mash the Oatmeal with cracked malt that has high 
diastatic activity (greater than 110 degrees Linter). Refer to Charlie 
Papazan's "The Home Brewers Companion" page 44; MALT TABLE for malt 
selection. Mashing is required to convert the starches into fermentable 
sugars.

Also if you want fermentable extract from the roasted barley and the black 
patent malt you should mash these grains as well. Without mashing you will 
obtain the colour and the flavour from these grains but not a contribution to 
the OG.

For each pound of cracked malt grain used reduce the amount of Munton's Amber 
DME by 8 ounces.

Happy brewing!!
Cheers, 
Scott Vernon, Melbourne, Australia.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:16:12 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Replies


G'day All

Well it was written

>>From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Jeff Renner kindly offered :

> For those of you in Oz and other 
> warmer climes who are lacking the snow necessary for a 
>traditional northern hemisphere mood, I have large quantities 
>available at only  $1.00/lb. FOB Ann Arbor plus shipping and 
>handling, insulated packing and dry ice extra.

Now while this would be very appropriate as after a recent hot 
spell my tap water is running at 30 Deg C, I am afraid that I can 
buy ice for only $0.50/lb at my local service (ie gas) station.<<<<<

Now Dear Jeff is offering us ice at $1.00US dollar/lb PLUS 
packaging and we can buy it at (with exchange rates) at 
25 centsUS/lb. Now mate you MAY THINK your the centre of 
the brewing universe, but its obvious you couldn't even sell baby 
oil to a pros.. ...opps cant go there thats right.  But Jeff, I have 
wonderful bottled HOT North Queensland  climate here I am 
willing to trade.  Tell you what you send the snow over and I 
return the packaging full of that wonderful air.

>>>>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:05:12 -0600
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: filters

Are there any good working designs out there for a home made 
filter plate or 
other device for filtering beer?  Anybody tried to build one?<<<<

Yes I have done just that built one myself.  based the design of 
a very small pool filter, with sand and DME.  Works like a charm. 
Will give you a web page soon where you lot can see it.

Any good ideas on what to do with a corny that has a 24 inch 
split up its' 
side?  How is this material for welding?<<<<  

Also done this. Corny kegs can be rewelded easily.  Take it to 
any good welder with a tig/mig set up. Good welders will tap it up 
so inert gas fills the inside, that way you get a smooth weld.


But I leave the worst for last

I just cant seem to shut up that pesty cockroach

From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>

At the height of it Graham Sanders came out of the closet and 
declared himself to be Australian (though the rest of us have never 
accepted this). And just when the fire seemed to be dying down 
Graham sprayed it with high octane fuel and it was all on again. 
Oh it was a horrible mess.
Never mind<<<

Thats it you bast+rd.  I'm taking you to court. Now you have had 
minor victories with your croat builder, but mate, you now face 
the wrath of a Nth Qlder. Yes you should tremble at the thought 
of being sued by me. You will be summoned to appear before 
me to explain your actions, although I fear your content free mind 
will have nothing to say.

And to correct the facts, I'm a Nth Qlder, you so called Aussies 
are a pale imatation of what a true blue should be.

But you have let slipped on one thing.


>>Just after New Year Doc Pivo will be back at Burradoo Estate 
for a combined brew day. I am going to let him run the show and 
we will be creating one of his much loved Czech pilsners. ......Of 
course Wes Smith will be here and hopefully Dave Lamotte will 
make it down from Newcastle.<<<

Chaps he has let it slip. He doesn't brew at all. It seems our dear 
Phil has other brew for him, then claims the rights to those beers. 
So Phil, does this actually explain your Peach wheat, or the Rice 
lager. And why Pomps put strawberries in their beers. Come to 
think of it, explains content free as well

Shout

Graham Sanders

Oh

Wouldn't want to be arround that lot when Phil, Wes, Dr P and 
David get together. I have enough hot air up here to content with.






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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:22:54 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Mixing Fruit, Pommes And North Queenslanders

Tony Barnsley has taken me to task for calling him a pomme blighter. How
could I have possibly guessed he is in fact Welsh?
After he poured a truck load of used strawberries into his wheat beer
instead of the recommended raspberries, I might well have assumed he was in
fact Irish.

Now before I am accused of being a trouble maker, let me point out I have an
Irish/English/Scottish background and am married to a girl whose cousin is
Aboriginal. So I can say anything I like!

But no where in my dubious ancestry is any mention of North Queensland.
Nothing could be worse than finding out you are in any way related to Graham
Sanders. And how dare he claim himself to be Australian! After all his
demands for entry fees and passports and giving us southerners (not to
mention you poor Americans) such a terrible trashing, how dare he!

Now he has decided to take his wrath out on my peach wheat beer. In short he
gave it the big thumbs down. He stopped just short of telling me I should
have used mangoes instead.
Graham was polite enough to suggest he wouldn't tell the HBD what he thought
of it, but I knew he would only use this against me. So I have beaten him to
the punch.

There is just no telling with these temperamental parochial Queenslanders.
Next I'm going to send him a Tooheys New cleverly disguised in a PET bottle
and see what he thinks of that.
Or maybe Tony could send him a strawberry wheat to really confuse him!

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:04:30 EST
From: Warandle1 at aol.com
Subject: oxidized beer

Hi all,

I pulled a stupid brewer's trick yesterday.  I racked my
amber ale (5 gal) into my corny keg.  I sealed it and added CO2 
to carbonate it artificially.  After shaking it with the 
initial forced gas for 20 seconds or so I realized I had 
forgotten to purge the regular air out of it.  So the head space 
contained some oxygen.  I did purge after this and continued 
to carbonate.  It is a really tasty beer. I added 0.5 tsp or
so of ascorbic acid to the beer.  

Do you think this beer will go bad soon?  How long would it 
take for the oxidation of the beer to occur?  Two days, two 
weeks?  Should I drink half tonight and half tomorrow?                        
                 


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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:30:19 -0600
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Lambic pitching schedules

As soon as weather permits (probably April . . .; cf. Nathan's recent
posting) I intend to undertake my first lambic and kriek/framboise. There
seem to be enormous variations on pitching schedules. Any advice? Pitch a
neutral ale yeast with Pediococcus and add Brettannomyces to secondary? Add
Wyeast Lambic blend to tertiary? Dregs from commercial examples? And when
to add fruit? Rack on top of in secondary?

Best wishes to all for the real millennium.

Keith Busby

Professor of French
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706

(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 11:30:41 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Samiclaus

: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> asks about Samiclaus.  If he had
attended the Bloatarian Holiday Party on the 15th, he could have witnessed
my attempt.  Your buddy was in Cleveland at his in-laws, where were you? 
We had a good time.

I based mine on the Clone Brews book.  Five gallons,  Target gravity 1.130

22.5 lbs Briess 2-row pale
1 lb Durst 60L
0.5 lbs Durst Vienna
1 lb corn sugar

1 oz Northern Brewer for bittering only

Wyeast Munich Lager - one gallon starter

The problem is that it sparged out about 13 gallons so I boiled over  a two
day peroid.  The beer is still fermenting at about 50 F.  I transfered to a
secondary, perhaps a bit early after 1.5 weeks.  It is as dark as a porter
and very smokey with an alcoholic aroma.  The smoke flavor does not belong
there and the color is too deep.  Next year I will probably double the size
of the mash and do a parti-gyle for the 5 gallons.  Maybe target a dark
lager with the rest.

Alan, you missed a great party.  You will need a written excuse next year
or I will cut off your brewing supplies and see If I don't!

Dan Listermann

Check out our new E-tail sight at www.listermann.com.  Input into the anti
telemarketing forum.  It is my new hobby!





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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:34:28 -0500
From: mchahn at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Samiclaus


>My problem comes in that I really, really like this beer but I have
>absolutely no idea how to start on the road to replicating the beer

There is a recipe in CLONEBREWS by Tess and Mark Szamatulski.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:46:41 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Castaway brewing

Have you seen the TV program "Castaway 2000" yet?  It's the British version
of "Survivor" and it's unbelieviably British the way Survivor was
unbelievably American.

The premise is that it's not a competition.  They have to work together to
live off the available resources on an island off the coast of Scotland.
It's cold, wet, dark and windy and of course they take it all with
unflappable good cheer, and naturally alcohol.

The episode I saw included a review of their brewing efforts (they seem to
have been allowed some wine and beer kits).  Most of them had no prior
experience but "must-have-alcohol" prevailed and they went at it.  Nearly
all would have been undrinkable in civilized circumstances but they held
their noses and drank - lots.

One experienced brewess was scooping up bushels of dulse and kelp and boiled
it down to extract sugar to make seaweed wine.  I imagine that it was very,
very clear.

The only conclusion that I could draw is that the British success at
empire-building resulted from their never having drank the local water,
preferring beer, gin, port, or the local hooch and thereby avoiding
dysentery.

Sean Richens
srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca





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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:27:33 +0930
From: Tom Smit <lunica at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Bruschetta ale, bock

Hi all,

  Just made a bruschetta:

grist
  two 1/2" thick slices firm bread, usually wheat but I chose to go with
rye this time

adjuncts
	plenty thinly sliced just-picked tomatoes (tigarellas and tommy Toes)

gruit bill
	1/2 clove garlick, lots fresh basil

yeast
	this was actually cleverly included inside the grist. Care should be
taken as bread yeasts can cause excessive fusel alcohols. I didn't
notice any of these today, though.


After mashing on what is quaintly known as a breadboard it went into a
kettle called a grill, on removing from the kettle I noticed a hot break
of toasted looking crumbs left behind. I had wanted to do First gruiting
With Intensive Treatment (F/WIT) but settled for rubbing the rather
thick wort with the half clove garlick soon after the grist came out the
kettle. I piled on the adjucts and the other gruit herbs. Thinking there
might be a lipid shortage I added some fine olive oil.

The whole mass was macerated on its way to the primary where it now
sits. Primary and secondary (racking isn't necessary, amazingly enough)
should take a day or so. The slurry that is left will be used to
kickstart a batch of brown ale.

This is the last in a series of tomato related posts. To those in the
Podes (or should that be antiantipodes?) I hope this took your minds off
the snow and cold you are suffering.

I pitched a bock yesterday with a good size, active starter, put the
fermenter inside my brewfridge (set to warmest setting, about 40F.
Checked this morning, no activity in airlock. How long should it take to
start fermenting? Or is 40F or so too cold? TIA

Tom Smit


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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:44:05 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: electric HLT

LaBorde, Ronald says....

>With my 4500 watt element running on 240 volts, it will take about 15-20
>minutes to bring 10 gallons of room temp water to a boil.

Ron, I sincerely dislike contradicting one who smote the
contentless Philistines of Oz, and I don't have a table under my
nose, but 4500W will NOT boil 10 gallons in 20 minutes or
even 40.

10gal is 37800+grams of water and the excursion (20C to 100C)
costs almost 80 calories per gram of water. So you are into
3+ million calories to do the job.

1 watt-hour is about 860 cals (nice number to remember),
so you need almost 3.5 kw-hours to heat the water, but a
4500W unit in 20 minutes can only supply 1.5kw-hr.

To so heat 10 gals with a 4500W requires about 46 minutes
*assuming* you have one of those 100% insulated no heat
capacity pots that astronaut brewers use.  Closer to an hour with
a conventional apparatus I think.

 -Steve








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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:17:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Hops and horses...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

My wife's horse's vet said mixing spent grains into his feed (the
horse's) is good for his digestion. He was unsure of hops. Anyone out
there know if a horse and hops will get along, gastro-intestinally and all
that? The reason I ask is that I occasionally mash-hop. I haven't been
giving Kim the results of that because I was unsure of the hops. 

And Happy New Year to y'all!

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:22:04 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <glen at pannicke.net>
Subject: TPOS, Guinness tang & Stout recipe

As far as TPOS is concerned, Graham, I prefer your "taking the piss out of
someone" over another's "boring the piss out of someone" any day.
Grain-drain & Ho-hum.  It's not that difficult.  If you put a hole in the
bucket, whatever is in it falls out.  More like common sense than partial
differential equations.  Glad I've got a PGDN key!  Hey!  I think I've got
this Aussie TPOS thing down pretty good now ;-)

Now for something totally brewing-related...

YOU WANT THE GUINNESS TANG?!?!?!
WELL, I GOT THE GUINNESS TANG!!!
Add 2 ml of 88% lactic acid per gallon.

The correct amount will probably depend upon your formulation, but 2
ml/gallon did it for the one listed below.  I'd suggest starting at 1 ml/gal
and working your way up in 0.5 ml/gallon increments from there.

Here's a Dry Irish Stout recipe that I'm very pleased with.  I'm a fan of
Guinness Stout Draft but would like it with a little more character.  This
recipe is very close to what you get from the tap, but with a bit more roast
flavor and hops.  If you want Guinness, then cut back the roasted barley and
the hops by about 1/3.  You could also can the black malt to get that snow
white head.


Black Cat Dry Irish Stout

Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL):        8.00
Anticipated OG:         1.050
Anticipated SRM:         34.9
Anticipated IBU:         54.8
System Efficiency:         75
Wort Boil Time:            90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name		SRM
- ------------------------------------------
67.8    10.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)	3
20.3     3.00 lbs. Flaked Barley	2
 3.4     0.50 lbs. Crystal 60L	60
 6.8     1.00 lbs. Roasted Barley	575
 1.7     0.25 lbs. Black Malt		600

Hops

 Amount     Name			Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
- -----------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.	Plug     5.00  14.7  FWH
1.00 oz.    Northern Brewer	Plug     8.00  22.8  60 min.
1.00 oz.    Perle			Pellet   5.60  17.2  60 min.


Yeast - White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast

Mash Schedule
- -------------
Mash Type: Single Step
Qts Water Per LBS Grain: 0.10    Total Qts: 1.50
Saccharification Rest Temp : 155  Time:  60
Mash-out Rest Temp :         165  Time:  15
Sparge Temp :                170  Time:  60

Additional Notes:

Added 1/2 tsp gypsum.
Added 2 ml of 88% lactic acid per gallon at racking

==================================================
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net
http://www.pannicke.net

Check http://pgpkeys.mit.edu/ for PGP public key
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
==================================================




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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:55:30 EST
From: JDPils at aol.com
Subject: Phil's Bottle filler

Greetings Beerlings,

Has anyone using Phil's nickel plated bottle had problems with it sucking air 
into the line?  The first one I had worked fine as I recall, but I 
unfortunately left it too long in bleach.  The new seems to suck air into it 
because the syphon hose does not fit snug enough.  Although its the same fit 
as before.

IMHO the bottle filler needs about three times more length for the sypon hose 
to fit over.

Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.

Cheers

Jim Dunlap   


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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:45:17 EST
From: DRC5522 at aol.com
Subject: BrewSource .2

First time poster, long time lurker here...
I recently found out about BrewSource in Oct. and was pleasantly surprised to 
find out that they're from my town, Lancaster, PA (actually they're in East 
Petersburg, right next door). I have no affiliation to the company other than 
being a satisfied customer. I can't speak about service outside the area, but 
I can tell you this: twice now Bucky from BrewSource has delivered product to 
my door, including last Friday when I was pretty doggone sick and was facing 
a Saturday brew day. Yes, I owe them several "thank you" homebrews. I figure 
if they're willing to go out of their way to personally deliver locally, 
they'll do a good job nationally as well. 
My .2
 -Dave Cook
Lancaster, PA
now back to the shadows...


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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:40:23 -0500
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Wort Aeration

Hello from West Virginia,

	Does anyone know where I can obtain plastic or stainless steel
aeration stones? I have an aquarium pump, an in-line air filter scavenged
from the hospital where I work, but the only stones I could find at the pet
stores and Wal-Mart were either pumice or coated paper tubes. I tried my
last batch with a pumice stone, but it crumbled after one use.
	On another tack, could I just run the air line sans aerating stone
right into the wort? Would this be effective at all for aerating, and how
long would it need to be in there?

Jeff
Novice Brewer, and proud of it!


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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:47:02 -0500
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Time to brew a stout, revised...

Hello, all!

Thank you all for your suggestions! I spent a couple hours reading,
highlighting and putting the wealth of info given to me in my brewing
logbook. Based on the suggestions and comments I received, I decided that
I'm not quite ready to try a partial mash. I'm trying a couple of new things
with this batch already, and I don't want to get ahead of my learning curve.
So, reluctantly, I've dropped the oatmeal and am shooting for a more
Irish/dry style. A number of people suggested that I should not rack to a
secondary fermenter. If I understand the concept correctly, racking to a
secondary fermenter takes the wort off of the trub, which helps prevent
off-flavors, and also helps in clarifying the wort. Now, clarifying doesn't
seem to be much of an issue with a stout, but I do wonder whether I should
only do the primary. Are those "off-flavors" something that I might not want
in a lighter beer, but do want in a stout?
On another note, thanks to all who cleared up the IBU thing for me. I
believe my problem had to do with utilization; I wasn't figuring that
correctly. You'll note that this is still a rather hoppy stout, at least
according to what I've read. I cut the bittering in half, but left the rest
of the schedule the same. I also cut the black patent malt out. As one
brewer put it, "If you like sucking down charcoal, go ahead and keep it
in..." I can't argue with that. I was including it primarily for color,
which is obviously unnecessary. Thanks again for all your suggestions, and,
for your perusal, here is the revised recipe:

Rusty Nail Stout

5 Gallon Extract Recipe
3 Gallon Boil

OG: 1.056
TG: 1.017
ABV: 4.5%
IBU: 33
SRM: 40

Water: 
Filtered, no additives (my water is moderately carbonate)
Extracts:
3.3 lbs. John Bull Dark Malt Extract
3 lbs. Munton's Amber DME
Steeping Grains:
10 oz. Roasted barley
8 oz. 120L Crystal Malt
8 oz. Chocolate Malt
Hops:
1 oz Northern Brewer  at  8.5 (60")
1 oz East Kent Goldings  at  5.0 (30")
1 oz East Kent Goldings  at  5.0 (10")
Yeast:
Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale (Pitched from step-up starter- Thanks, Chuck!)
Adjuncts:
1/2 stick Brewer's Licorice
8 oz. Malto-Dextrin Powder
Fermentation:
Primary-ferment  at  65 F 3-5 days
Secondary-ferment  at  65 F 8-12 days
Bottle with 3/4 cup corn sugar


Thanks for your bandwidth, folks!

Jeff
Novice Brewer and proud of it! 


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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:42:59 -0800
From: Jim Wilson <jim.wilson at home.net>
Subject: Ancient history beer tastes

In the mid to late 50's, growing up in Tucson, I'd occasionally taste my
Dad's and his friend's beer.  My Dad liked Coors, which I remember as being
tasteless (some things never change!) and his friends liked other brands.
Lucky Lager and Schlitz are ones I remember but there may have been others.
 The Lucky Lager/Schlitz group had a taste I can't find today.  It may have
been a sweetness, I don't know.  Certainly, my tastes have changed and
maybe this is a profile I can't duplicate or even perceive now.  I read
about CAP and CACA and think maybe these beers would be similar but I know
Rolling Rock (with its DMS) is nothing like the flavor I remember.  Would
any HBD readers have any thoughts on what these flavors might have been and
what home brews might duplicate them?

To all HBD'ers, thanks for your participation - this is a wonderful
resource - and have the Happiest of New Years!


                o          \o
   __o         /\          /
  `\ <>       `\ `>       `\  >
(*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)

I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.




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Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:21:20 -0500
From: "Al Beers" <albeers at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks to HBD, Pat, Karl

Re:
>It was 4 years ago I think that I thought of taking over the HBD from
>the strangling date raping hands of the AOB. Instead I suckered Pat
>Babcock into running it.

>So let us give our thanks to Pat (and Karl who has also been scarce
>lately) for running the HBD and taking the time to even host it from
>home.
Just want to thank Pat and Karl for providing us all with a great forum on
homebrewing. The collective has answered many questions for me, and made me
a better brewer. Thanks to y'all. Have a happy, hoppy New Year!


Don't take life too seriously...you won't get out alive.

Al
albeers at hotmail.com





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Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:23:16 +1000
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: microwave RIMS?

Hello All,
I am interested to know if anyone has considered the use of a Microwave Oven
for a RIMS implementation?  It seems that is might be quite simple to use a
microwave oven for temperature maintenance at least in a RIMS system,
probably ever temperature boosts.

Seems like a plastic coil could be placed in the oven with the prewort being
pumped thru,  and a temperature reading system/controler at the outflow or
in the mash being used to control the output of the microwave system.  Even
a manual system could be done with temperature changes done manually.

Any ideas or thoughts?,
Regards, Rick Wood



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