HOMEBREW Digest #3538 Wed 24 January 2001

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  RE: Hops and Oxygenation (Chris Swersey)
  Re: yeast harvest warning (David Lamotte)
  Science and the value of interpretation. Headache position. ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: Dave Burley ("Braam Greyling")
  10 gallon stovetop batches? ("Spinelli, Mike")
  Wyeast Tubes ("John Herman")
  Natural Gas Burners (jtfs)
  Re: Fl Brew Pubs ("Frank J. Russo")
  drilling enamel pot (The Freemans)
  Distilled water ("Jones, Steven T")
  Headspace and redefining pitchable ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: Flaked corn=no boiler foam (Jeff Renner)
  RE: drilling enamel (Eli Daniel)
  Immersion Chilling ("Jones, Steven T")
  Re: Hops affect on oxidation (Demonick)
  Re: CO2 and Headspace. ("Pete Calinski")
  RE:Drilling Enamel (Site Acquisition)
  hops/oxidation/skunky ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: Extract Brewers Needed ("Arnold Neitzke")
  Wyeast Pitchable Tubes vs. Smack Packs ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  HBD Database? ("Drew Avis")
  re: CO2 and headspace size (Clif Moore)
  Bottle Caps... ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Unwanted smell from beer poured from tap (redmage)
  spruce tips ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Head Space and Carbonation (Brad Miller)
  Immersion chillers ("John R. Peed")
  re: drilling enamel ("dludwig")
  CO2 and headspace size ("Bret Mayden")
  Cloudy Issue ("Bret Mayden")
  Mash hopping and funny flavor ("John R. Peed")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:05:19 -0700 From: Chris Swersey <cswersey at salmoninternet.com> Subject: RE: Hops and Oxygenation Dave asks: "Do hoppier beers get skunky faster? Or does it slow the oxidation process?" This is a deep question. The material in hops that skunk are sulfur containing organic compounds. UV light rays hit these molecules, and cleave off sulfur radicals that quickly become H2S, a nasty, skunky smelling beast. As a brewpub brewer whose product was served fresh on draft most of the time, I became very sensitive to skunking. We could detect skunking after sitting outside in the beer garden with a pint after as little as 5 minutes in the sun. Hoppier beers have more of the sulfure containing precursors. More precursor means more chance for H2S production. But, hoppier beers may also have enough aroma and flavor to mask low levels of H2S. It's tough to say whether you would actually perceive the skunkiness in any given circumstance. One of the main reasons large brewers use isomerized and purified alpha acid sources and hop oils is that they do not contain sulfur containing precursors. They are therefore relatively light stable. This is very important if your product is packaged in a clear bottle. As far as oxidation goes, there is no evidence that hops will stabilize a beer from oxidation. They may stabilize a beer microbiologically (The IPA story....). Again, it's perhaps a matter of threshold - more aroma and flavor to mask an off nuance, and perhaps you don't perceive a defect that is actually there. Chris Swersey JCS Consulting Brewlab N. America Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:10:27 +1100 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: yeast harvest warning G'Day All, I would like to reinforce Rama Roberts' warning on capping yeast slurry. Quite a few years ago I 'discovered' the same method of storage ie save some slurry in a beer bottle, cap it and put it in the fridge. If I remember correctly, I left it there for a month or more and it was 'ready to blow' when I removed it from the fridge. Like Rama I attempted to just ease the cap off, but the pressure was so great that the bottle was propelled from my hands, bounced off the sink, hit the door of the fridge and then sat in the middle of the floor doing cartwheels in ever diminishing circles. This ensured that the 'bang' as it hit the sink got everyone's attention so that I couldn't clean up quietly. The impact with the fridge left a dent that is still visible, and the cartwheels ensured that every surface was covered with a fresh coat of tan paint. The only thing that saved me from instant death at the hands of my wife was my 'creature from the tan lagoon' appearance as bits glooped from my face onto the floor. Yep, been there.... done that ..... ONCE ! Storage in distilled water is much safer. Thanks for sharing it with us. David Lamotte Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia Visit the home of Australian Craft Brewing at http://oz.craftbrewer.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:36:02 +0100 From: "Dr. Pivo" <docpivo at hotmail.com> Subject: Science and the value of interpretation. Headache position. Ahhh. Isn't it wonderful for us to be once again taught how to truly do some tempered, well thought out, and objective interpretation? such as... " Papers typically only report a confined experimental result - extrapolations belong to the reader" and... " One must be careful to NOT read more into ANY result than is supported." or... "I for one recognize this fully." Having never understood anything "fully" yet myself, I am prepared to stand in admiration and salute the pulpit....except....it follows with.... "only the Great and Powerful Pivo can perform *real* experiments unlike that junk science in the peer reviewed journals." and.... " your belief that all of the brewing literature is out to turn your beer into Bud is paranoid babble." I am sort of guessing that it is this type of exageration, and oxymoronic statements, that has made more than just I, just a teeny, tiny bit scepticle of some of our more well known librarians ability to interpret things for us. Then again, it could just be the effects of all that virtual drinking of virtually brewed beer...... and will pass with the virtual hangover. Now, onward and upward to much more important topics! Frank Timmons reports: . >my secretary insists that draft beer gives her a slamming headache >after one or two beers and concludes... >I told her that >it was probably in her head I agree entirely with your assessment, and have no other locality for the ache to suggest at all. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:13:46 +0200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> Subject: Re: Dave Burley Hi all, Dave had bypass surgery round about Christmas. Luckily everything went well and he is getting better. Regards Braam Greyling Snr. Design Engineer Azoteq(Pty)Ltd Tel +27 21 8711730 Fax +27 21 8729973 braam.greyling at azoteq.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:31:20 -0500 From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil> Subject: 10 gallon stovetop batches? HBDers, I have this crazy idea of boiling a 10 gallon batch on my NG 4-burner stovetop (weather's been a bitch outside). Anybody do this? If so, what kind of pot do you use. I was thinking that a square or rectangular vessel would do best to cover all 4 burners. Thanks Mike Spinelli Mikey's Monster Brew Cherry Hill, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:13:56 -0500 From: "John Herman" <johnvic at earthlink.net> Subject: Wyeast Tubes I tried the alsoWyeast Tubes. I must admit that I was on the edge of what they list as an accepetable gravity for using the tubes without a starter. I was at 1.055. I pitched into a well aerated wort on a Sunday evening and did not see any activity until Tueasday evening. When I seconderied the gravity was up at 1.019. This is only my first experience with the Wyeast Tube and it was cleary not a scientific experiment. John Herman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:16:33 -0800 From: jtfs at erols.com Subject: Natural Gas Burners I am considering purchasing a natural gas burner such as the model H210 sold by Morebeer.com . Does anyone have experience with this burner? What should I know before buying it? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:20:54 -0500 From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: Re: Fl Brew Pubs I was there last February and found NONE. No brew Bubs on the way to Fl Key West. I was in the area you are looking at also looking for a brew pubs. In Ft Lauderdale there is a brew pub, that makes the Alligator Ale. Can't for the life of me think of its name. They tell me you can find the brew pub beers in the local package stores, but I did not find them. Will be going back again this February plan to look a little harder. Please let me know what you find. I will be down there Feb 5-9 Frank Russo ATF HomeBrew Club New Bern NC "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:42:49 -0600 From: The Freemans <potsus at Bellsouth.net> Subject: drilling enamel pot You are gonna chip the surface pretty much whatever you do. Placing masking tape over both the inside as well as the outside of the surface to be drilled will help somewhat. Using a series of drill sizes is an excellent idea. To start the first hole tap the center of it with a sharp punch or some such to break the porcelain surface initially. I used (a good while ago before my stainless pots) food grade silicon sealant smeared on both sides of the finished hole to prevent rust. Hope this helps. Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser" Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:48:24 -0500 From: "Jones, Steven T" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Distilled water Greetings, all. I've got a question for the water experts out there: Can a sealed jug of distilled water off of the grocery store shelf be considered sterile enough to use for yeast management? If so, it would be quite nice to be able to spend $.80 for water rather than boiling/cooling or pressure canning water to manage yeast. Thanks, Steve Jones Johnson City, TN 36:30:8 N, 82:31:57 W (5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian) http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:49:29 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Headspace and redefining pitchable Benjy Edward asks regarding CO2 and headspace size: > Has anyone noticed the phenomenon of varying carbonation level due to >headspace size? There's not much in the literature about it. I have found this to be the case with my kegs too. I force carbonate my beers and attempt to shorten the time by dropping the temp to about 45 deg F and pressurizing to 30 psi. I'll do fill/agitate/purge cycles for about 20 minutes. At the end of this time I would have what some might call carbonated beer. But it is best left until the next day in the cold and with it's proper pressure still on the beer (ballpark 15 psi). At this point the beer appears to be carbonated, but it's a fleeting carbonation at best. After a few Not So Pleasingly Carbonated Beers have been consumed, the carbonation level begins to improve. But that's only after I have dropped the beer level in the keg a few inches. I always fill to the top seam of the keg. Beer doesn't last long in my house so I can't tell you if it's time or headspace that makes the difference. If you carbonate naturally however, yeast activity is impacted by CO2 concentration and pressure. Scott Snyder wrote of Sh*tty Wyeast "Pitchable" Tubes: I don't really care much for the new Wyeast packaging, but they do give you 4 fl. oz. of yeast (I think). I've had duds from both of the major players in the yeast game before but I can't say if it was the batch, the shipping or the storage that did it. So now I culture my own but when I need a new strain, I have to go commercial. No matter what it is: smack pack, pitchable, re-used yeast cake... I always feed it a little just before I pitch it. I think the term "pitchable" need to be re-defined to include the words "active" and "healthy". Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:52:38 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Flaked corn=no boiler foam "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> wrote >I added 2# of flaked corn to a >house ale recipe I've brewed many times before. The weird thing was there >was absolutely NO FOAM during the boil. <snip> >A *guess*: Oil from the flaked corn suppressed foaming during the boil but >was removed from the wort via run-off through the manifold/whole hops bed >in bottom of the boiler after immersion cooling. I have not noticed this phenomenon, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Cedrtainly my CAPs have great foam retention, so there should be no problem with the finished beer. Flaked maize has low levels of oil - comparable to those in malt, as I recall, but I really should check. Interesting report. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:44:59 -0500 From: Eli Daniel <edaniel at epesi.com> Subject: RE: drilling enamel Marty Milewski wonders about technique of drilling an enamel-on-steel pot. My recommendation would be to invest in a cobalt steel bit of the size you want. Make a little ding in the pot with a nail or something so the center of the bit has a place to grab. Just go slowly and periodically put some oil or WD-30 on the place you're drilling to reduce friction and keep it from getting too hot. I don't think you should have any problems chipping the enamel. Incidentally, those drill bits are pretty pricey. In trying to save money I bought a smaller one then I needed, thinking I'd just enlarge the hole afterwards. It was a *huge* PITA. If I was doing it again, I'd just buy the right-sized bit. -Eli Daniel Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:51:25 -0500 From: "Jones, Steven T" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Immersion Chilling Greetings, all. Andy & Dan complain of long chilling times. Tom suggested agitation to help speed up the process. I read this past weekend (I think it was in Brewware, but I'm not sure) about an immersion chiller configured so the coils form a disk instead of a cylinder. In use, it is placed so the disk is near the top of the hot wort. The claim was that this type of chiller configuration will chill wort much faster without agitation because of convection. I've not tried it so I can't comment further, but it sounds like it is worth a try. Hope this helps. Steve Jones Johnson City, TN 36:30:8 N, 82:31:57 W (5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian) http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:56:09 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Hops affect on oxidation From: "David B. Peterson" <dave at toppledwagon.com> in 3537 23Jan01 >Do hoppier beers get skunky faster? Or does it slow the oxidation >process? The implicit assumption here is incorrect. Oxidation does not equal skunky. Skunking is a photochemical reaction of ISO-alpha acids in hops. That's why beer is packaged in brown bottles. Pour a small shot glass (why waste it?) of hopped homebrew and leave it exposed to direct sunlight, not through a window, but DIRECT. 30 minutes later you will detect skunking. Do the same with a shot glass and a fluorescent light. It will take longer, maybe days, but it will skunk. From the 24Apr96 HBD quoting Ken Parsons: >The lightstruck (aka sunstruck, skunky, or import beer) flavor >arises when ultraviolet light from the sun or fluorescent bulbs cleaves >the 3-methylbut-2enyl radical from the isohumulone molecule. Isohumulone >is isomerized alpha-acid that is the bittering agent of hops. The cleaved >radical is then free to react with hydrogen sulfide or other sulfur >containing compounds to form isopentenyl mercaptan, that yummy aroma. > >Some breweries (I believe Miller is one, Samuel Smith, I'm not sure) >can reduce the isohumulone with sodium borohydride to form a secondary >alcohol known as the rho-isohumulones. This compound is claimed to be >less susceptible to photolysis but also has less bittering power. So, the answer to the first original question is, yes, hoppier beers tend to skunk faster. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:55:38 -0500 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: CO2 and Headspace. Benjy Edwards asked: >While I agree with his observations of this concept, I don't agree >with his rationale. Why would yeast be affected by headspace pressure? >however, I have yet to come up with a satisfactory alternative hypothesis. >anyone have any ideas? Well, I'm not the best one to reply but I think it is more a volume issue. In a bottle filled to the top, it takes very little CO2 to occupy the small headspace before the yeast poops out because of pressure. With a large headspace, it takes a lot of CO2 to get the same pressure All other things being equal, the same pressure is reached. When you open the filled bottle, the small volume empties quickly and you say, not much carbonation. When you open the bottle with a lot of headspace, there is a lot of CO2 (at the same initial pressure as the other bottle) to escape so you get the impression that there is a lot of carbonation. Actually, I believe the amount of CO2 in the beer is the same either way. Note, all other things may not be equal, e.g.. if there isn't enough sugar, the large head space may not achieve pressure. I guess I have been tossing this theory around in my head for a while but never had the time to analysis it thoroughly. So, at the risk of making a fool out of myself, I'll toss it on the table while the subject is under discussion and see if it rots or ferments. Remember, I'm an electrical engineer, what do I know about this stuff. Hope this helps more than it hurts. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY 0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner (using his 12/28/00 Lat/Long). Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:14:09 -0800 From: Site Acquisition <SiteAcquisition at Home.com> Subject: RE:Drilling Enamel Marty Milewski asked for help on drilling enamel pots. The best advice is don't to it, as the glaze may chip (if your are lucky) and crack (if you are not). However, as you got these "cheap" here are the options. The best thing to do is take the pots to a local metal fabrication shop and have the holes punched. This way the pot is supported on the base and strike side, and you will get a nice round hole. You may get some cracking here, and the shop will most likely want a waiver. If you drill the hole use a bit designed for metal, use a high torque & low RPM drill (preferably a drill press) and support the backside of the pot with a chunk of oak or other hard wood to absorb the drill pressure to resist cracking the enamel. Drill a small pilot hole first and don't worry about any chipping. Then drill the next hole the final diameter you are looking for. Your idea of increasing the bit size (aka reaming) is not a good idea and will most likely result in the bit catching in the exiting hole and twisting into the material as opposed to drilling. I would even suggest a bit of cutting oil to assist with the drilling process. Above all remember that you want to drill slowly and remove material with each revolution of the drill bit. Frementos <SiteAcquisition at Home.Com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:23:21 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: hops/oxidation/skunky Dave asks about skunkiness and oxidation, Skunkiness is caused by light reacting with hop acids to form mercaptan. Therefore, lighter colored beers skunk faster than dark colored beers, and beer in clear or green or light bottles skunk faster than those in dark brown bottles. The more hops, the more mercaptan, the more skunkiness when exposed to light. Some mega brewers have used a stabilized hop oil so they can pack their beer in clear bottles. Oxidation is caused by reaction with oxygen. Skunkiness is not oxidation. Depending on the type of oxidation it will taste different: wet cardboard and sherry like are two of the most common off flavours resulting from oxidation. See http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2357.html#2357-3 from the HBD archives for a useful summary on skunking posted by Spencer Thomas in 1997. And, from the BJCP Study Guide: LIGHT-STRUCK CHARACTERISTICS: Skunk odor; unmistakable and generally not desirable in beer. CHEMISTRY: Light will degrade hop iso-alpha acids which then combine with sulphur compounds in the beer to produce 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol, or prenyl mercaptan. Other sulphur compounds also contribute to the overall lightstruck character. HIGH CONTENT: Light-struck fermenter; clear or green glass bottles; sunlight on brown bottles; fluorescent lights on green or clear bottles. REDUCTION OR ELIMINATION: Fermenter shielded from light; use of bottles opaque to 400-520 nm (ultraviolet to blue-green) light; chemically modified hop extract (used by Miller); storing beer in a cool, dark place. EXAMPLES: Most European lagers in green bottles, especially when left in sun for 15 minutes, Sam Smiths products when exposed to fluorescent light. ==== OXIDATION CHARACTERISTICS: Cardboard, paper, wet paper, sherry-like and rotten fruit are all characteristics of oxidation, perceived both as an aroma and a flavor. CAUSES: Oxidation of beer and the alcohol components into trans-2-nonenal and other aldehydes. HIGH LEVEL: Aeration of beer when transferring or bottling; excessive head space in bottle; poorly functioning air lock; excessive age; high storage temperatures; widely-varying secondary or lagering temperatures; adding tap water to finished beer without boiling. LOW LEVEL: Quiet transfer of beer when siphoning and bottling; flushing out bottles and kegs with CO2 before filling and capping; cool (<55 degree) storage of bottled beer; proper head space in bottle; use of ascorbic acid or oxygen-barrier caps; functional airlock; constant-temperature secondary/ lagering; adding only boiled/chilled water to beer after primary fermentation. EXAMPLES: Sherry-like oxidation is often found in English old ales, barleywines and strong Scotch ales. Hope this was useful. regards, Stephen Ross Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:29:26 -0500 From: "Arnold Neitzke" <arnold_neitzke at ameritech.net> Subject: Re: Extract Brewers Needed Our club (Ann Arbor Brewers Guild) calls these "brewola's". I organized one a couple of years ago but it was for all grain. I believe that I added a extract version, so that everybody could get involved. I put kits together for the grain, hops, and yeast along with the recipe. I had hoped to see what different brewing technics by different brewers would have with common ingredients. Unfortunately I let the ball fall and never had an "official" tasting. When we got together for the monthly meetings, we would do comparisons of the "brewola's" that were brought at that meeting only. As I recall, they were surpassingly close, although there were *some* that deviated from the recipe just to mess with me :) All in all, it was a little more work than I expected putting the kits together but it was a fun activity to do and I encourage as many as possible to join in. AJN Brighton Mi >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:55:19 -0600 >From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net> >Subject: Extract Brewers Needed > >Hello all: > >During the last few issues of Zymurgy, we introduced a new column on >extract/kit brewing. The basic idea is for several brewers to get together >and all brew some beers from the same base extract or kit. The general idea >is to make several interesting and tasting beers that are also easy to make. >Of course you are allowed to add things to the kit/can such as grains, hops >and your choice of yeast. When the beers have been tasted, we run the >recipes in Zymurgy and then the brewers get their names and faces in >Zymurgy. Of course they also get some free brewing ingredients (and >therefore free beer!) along the way. > >I am now looking for some volunteers to participate in this program. Could >be a formal club or just some guys who hang out together and brew. Proven >brewing ability is the only requirement. Drop me a line privately at >ray at aob.org if you are interested and we'll get things rolling. > >Regards, > >Ray Daniels Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:37:23 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: Wyeast Pitchable Tubes vs. Smack Packs Scott asks about Wyeast Pitchable Tubes vs. Smack Packs... We've had excellent results with Tubes, but we also offer a caution. When they first arrived, we stocked up on the tubes and had great results. But we have subsequently switched to special-order only for Tubes, and for immediate use with our fresh wort kits. As with any pitchable yeast, Wyeast tubes are more susceptible to damage in transit, and in storage. We lost an entire shipment when our cooler temperature dropped too low. The smack packs in the same cooler were unaffected, or at least, where able to recover, and swelled predictably. Because they have no starter, it is impossible to assess the viability of a Tube before pitching directly. A smack-pack at least gives some indication by how long it takes to swell. While we guarantee all our yeast, a replacement Tube is small consolation to a brewer who has lost an entire batch of beer because of inactive yeast. The Tubes' short shelf life also made us reconsider stocking these regularly. Scott's Tubes were fresh, so must have suffered in storage or shipping. His supplier should definitely have replaced the Tubes or offered a discount on the smack-packs he had to use. We bring the Tubes in by special order and ensure they are used within 3 months, but plan for use within 1 month. We now take extra care with our Tubes to ensure consistent temperatures. We think they are great, they are convenient and were very popular with our fresh wort customers, but they do have a higher risk factor. We prefer Wyeast Tubes to others simply because we have had no problems in shipping with Wyeast, whereas we have had consistent problems with other pitchable vials. hope this was useful, Stephen Ross Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:03:47 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: HBD Database? Brewers & HBDers: for fun I've written a small app that pulls archived HBDs in and enters them in a database, by individual post. It's kinda neat to be able to search for individual posts on the email, name, or subject fields as well as the full text - I think that searchs are faster and more granular than what you can currently get on the web. Now I'm working on a "browser" that lets you do advanced searches on the database. Is an HBD full-text database something people would be interested in having on their desktop? How far back should such a database go? Already it's huge (~20 meg) with only three years worth of posts in it! BTW for a taste of some great HBD resources, check out these links: Thread search of HBD archives: http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/cgi-bin/dothread Scott Murman's "Best of HBD posts": http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy/archives.html Ken Schwartz has some neat HBD Reader software: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/ Drew Avis Merrickville, Ontario http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:58:44 -0900 From: Clif Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: re: CO2 and headspace size >level of carbonation will vary depending on >the size of the headspace above the beer The model I use to explain this observation is as follows: If too little headspace is left in a bottle the head space pressure will spike as fermentation progresses. The cap simply leaks under the overpressure and the CO2 is thus unavailable for carbonation of the beer. A proper headspace allows a buffer zone for accumulation of CO2 and subsequent absorption into your tasty beverage. Clifton Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:27:32 -0500 From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> Subject: Bottle Caps... Hello fellow brewers, Recently I scored a old bench capper in really great shape. Along with this neat new toy was an entire case of "Gold Bond" brand bottle caps, most still in their original boxes. We're talking like 10,000 caps! These caps have a cork disk inside to act as a seal, I suppose. They are really cool looking, half green and half gold, and they look like they have a powder-coated finish. Can these be used? I haven't done anything with them beyond seeing if they would fit and seal on a standard bottle (which they do). The corks are not noticably bad despite their obvious age, and when moistened in water for an hour, sealed a bottle filled with water and held on its side for 48 hours. My primary concerns would be that the cork would impart an off-flavour, or that I cannot adaquately sanitize the caps. Does anyone have any experience using caps like these? Peace, Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:11:18 GMT From: redmage at paradise.net.nz Subject: Unwanted smell from beer poured from tap Hi all. I have a problem that hopefully someone can solve for me. I have kegged my beer twice now. All seems ok. The only problem is that the first 1/2 glass has a smell. The following glasses are fine. If you leave the tap for about 30min, and then pour another glass, the smell is back again. The smell is strong and the beer has a taint to it when drinking. I have cleaned everything and sterilized the tap and all hoses. Also, there is a little more froth then on the following pours. Details: 30 Litre keg. 3 meters of tube 6mm diameter Temp inside keg is 0-3C CO2 pressure is 9 PSI Temperature behind the tap is 10C (I have the beer line in a 30mm diameter copper tube filled with water that is cooled from the freezer.) Any ideas would be most welcome. Many thanks Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:11:11 -0500 From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: spruce tips howdy folks, a friend of mine has requested a spruce ale so i thought i would give it a try. a cow orker (ref: t.b.) has access to spruce tips via trees in his folks yard. my question regards timing: should the tips be harvested from trees in the winter, spring, summer or fall? surely the composition of the tips varies through the growing season and possibly tips from a particular time would be most appropriate. your tips are solicited (heh). slainte, -patrick in Toronto - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:26:25 -0800 From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com> Subject: Head Space and Carbonation rdbedwards at hotmail.com said "you're supposed to only leave a small headspace in the neck of the bottle because if you don't, the bottle is likely to overcarbonate. If you fill a bottle halfway with primed beer it will either explode or blow the cap off into your eye when you try to open it." Chuck P is also quoted as saying the same thing in The Joy but at attributing this to yeast. It seems to me that carbonation is related to head space but rather in the exact opposite way. Ok so what is carbonation? Dissolved CO2 right. And how does the CO2 get dissolved? It's basically where you'll have so much pressure in the head space that some of the CO2 goes into solution. (Well basically that's how it would be in a keg if you just turned on the pressure. In a bottle the CO2 is in solution from the start and reaches an equilibrium with the head space.) So is everybody with me? Ok, now if you have a larger head space then there is a greater capacity for CO2 and therefor not as much will go/stay in solution. A smaller head space more CO2 in the solution given equal priming/volumes of gas. Anyone else with some thoughts? Brad Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:37:30 -0500 From: "John R. Peed" <jpeed at gar.net> Subject: Immersion chillers Tom writes that he agitiates his immersion chiller to increase effectiveness and asks if there are any problems with doing so. I would have a problem with stirring up the hops and trub that I so carefully whirlpooled into the center of the pot. I use a pretty heavy-duty chiller that has 50 feet of 1/2" copper (20 coils, each about 10" in diameter). It helps trap the trub in the center of the keg. In winter, it gets me to 70 degrees in 15 or 20 minutes. If summertime water temp won't let me get to pitching temp, I stop when the wort gets to 90 degrees or so, throw a bag of ice into the hot liquor tank, add some water, then connect a pump from the HLT to the chiller and a return line from the chiller to the HLT, then just recirculate the icewater until I reach pitching temp, which is soon. Yes, the return water is a bit warm and melts the ice, but if I start with wort that's no warmer than 90 to 100 degrees, it works out fine. I can chill to at least 80 with summertime water, but starting the icewater recirc at 90 or 100 gets it on down to pitching temp a lot quicker. Stationary immersion chillers work fine if they're big enough, but you do have to use a good bit of copper to pull it off. John Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:48:27 -0500 From: "dludwig" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: re: drilling enamel >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:42:10 -0600 >From: "Marty Milewski" <mmilewski at mlpusa.com> >Subject: Drilling Enamel > >My local home brew supply shop went out of business and I was able to pick >up two brand new 8.25 gal enamel pots (1-boiling kettle/1-HLT) for a very >cheap price. My dilema is that I want to drill the pots in order to fit >them with a spigot and I'm afraid of chipping the baked enamel coating. > >My only thought was to put duct tape on either side of the pot, and start >with a small sharp drill bit and progressively use larger bits. > >Thoughts on this process? Does anyone have any experience or any ideas on >drilling enamel? That's what I did, Marty. Duct tape on each side. Not sure if it really keeps the chipping down or not but helps starting the small bit and seeing the hole diameter that you draw on the tape. Like you said, start with a small bit and progress to larger bits. I stopped at 7/16 dia bit(if I recall correctly) and continued to ream out the holes with a small diameter rotary rasp (metal cutting kind) using my electric drill. Alternate with a conical grinding stone using your electric drill to smooth out the hole. Take your time and it will chip very little. I've logged 6 holes of various sizes in these types of pots and had good results. Smear a little food grade silicon on the finished hole(exposed metal) to keep the rust in check. Dave Ludwig Flat Iron Brewery SO Md Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:53:47 -0000 From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com> Subject: CO2 and headspace size Just last month I tried a very un-scientific experiment to see just what the difference was, if any, created in carbonation levels by bottle headspace. My results confused me even more. While bottling my last batch of pale ale, I filled two bottles with about 1/4" to 1/2" headspace. The rest of my batch I filled per usual, leaving about 1 1/2" headspace. I then set aside the two bottles with the minimum headspace along with two bottles of the greater headspace in a separate box in my brew room (64F). Let them carbonate for 3 weeks. Then I chilled them both to about 45F & then opened & decanted both. I tried to maintain the same angle, pour rate, etc, while alternating bewteen the two pairs of bottles. Both of the bottles with the smaller headspace produced a head about 50% bigger than the bottles with smaller headspace. Bret Mayden brmayden at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:17:38 -0000 From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com> Subject: Cloudy Issue Every once in awhile, I forget to throw the Irish Moss into the boil 15 min before pulling it off the fire. Usually, the beer doesn't clear very well. Therefore, a day or three before bottling, I add a couple teaspoons of Polyclar to the secondary. It does the trick & clears it right up. However, be sure the beer is as devoid of CO2 as you can make it BEFORE adding the polyclar. It provides nucleation sites for the CO2 (read FOAM). Agitate the secondary a few times over the period of a few days. Be slow in adding the polyclar, too. Stir it in slowly after that. It only takes a day or two & you're ready to bottle. Bret Mayden brmayden at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:43:51 -0500 From: "John R. Peed" <jpeed at gar.net> Subject: Mash hopping and funny flavor OK, so I tried mash hopping. I used a stock pale ale recipe that ended up making around 7 gallons at a starting gravity of .044. I added three ounces of Cascade to the mash (9# pale, 2# Munich, 1# lite crystal), going on the advice that a bit more hops are needed when you mash hop. Two and a quarter ounces of Centennial (9.3%) for bittering in the boil. It turned out well, was nicly clear and attractive, and had nice hop flavor. Except ... it also had a funny flavor, one that I could only describe as butter. "Oh," everyone says at once, "he got diacetyl in the beer." That's what everyone at the local brew club said too when they tasted it, although some described it as butterscotch. But I'm tellin ya', I don't accidentally get diacetyl in my beer. "Sure you don't," you all snicker. But I'm tellin ya', I make my share of mistakes, but I never mistakenly get diacetyl. I control temperatures in a small fernmenting room - the wort temp was 63 to 66 for this brew - and I use yeasts that I'm familiar with - 1056 American for this one. When I want dicetyl (and there are times when I do), I use Ringwood yeast, and get diacetyl in spades. I do not think this flavor was from diacetyl (I don't even think the flavor was correct for diacetyl, but more on that later); I think it was a result of mash hopping. Yes, there was good hop flavor in the brew, but there was also an off flavor, a fullness, if you will. I really would rather not repeat the brew to confirm it, because I'm pretty sure the same flavor will show up again, and I don't care for it. Any comments on this? And that brings up another point. Common knowledge says diacetyl tastes either buttery or butterscotch. When I use Ringwood ale yeast, a notorious diacetyl producer, the results strike me as having more of a vanilla flavor. Not butter, not butterscotch, but vanilla. Futhermore, I was loaned a book (Principles of Brewing Science) by none other than George Fix, and he says, when talking about breweries that maintain "pre-1950 diacetyl levels" in their beers: " ... many consumers actually find diacetyl at these levels to be attractive. The vanilla tone, which is often confused with caramel flavoring, definitely adds to the smoothness of the beer." Any comments on the taste of diacetyl? I have definitely tasted the buttery/butterscotchy flavor that most attribute to diacetyl. Having used Ringwood ale yeast, I'm wondering if that butter/buttercotch flavor isn't something else. Or maybe "bad diacetyl" - that produced by high temperatures - has a different flavor from "natural diacetyl"? At any rate, the flavor I detected in the mash hopped ale did not strike me as being the same as the alleged diacetyl flavor. Similar, maybe, but not the same. John Return to table of contents
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