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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: flow into counterflow ("J. Doug Brown")
  Racking Canes and Hot wort (Dan Listermann)
  Off-topic observation (Danny Breidenbach)
  Nipple welding (David Harsh)
  Bottling/headspace ("Fred L. Johnson")
  re: Welding a nipple into the brewpot. (John_E_Schnupp)
  Belgian Yeasts (cmmundt)
  A Note For The Aussies ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Rules of Thumb ("Jeffry D Luck")
  A damn fine beer mug (doug)
  Beer Hunting in the Great White North - Advice Needed ("Schultz, Steven W SBCCOM")
  Gear Reduction (Epic8383)
  re: Headspace levels and carbonation ("S. SNYDER")
  15G Keg Fermenters ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
  re:hops to grow ("Doug Marion")


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:30:04 -0500
From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown at citynet.net>
Subject: Re: flow into counterflow

>Can you use a plastic racking cane to transfer my wort ...

The answer is yes, however I would save the plastic cane for transfering
to a secondary.  I have done this several times, however your racking
can will likely distort very badly if it is like mine was.  I detected
no plastic flavors in my beer, but the cane was unusable for transfer to
a secondary because its length shortened considerably.  I have given up
on trying to straighten out the cane with boiling water.  I have since
moved on to 1/4" ID 3/8" OD soft copper tubing bent into a racking cane
shape.  This works well however the cane will burn you if you touch it
with your bare hands (good heat transfers capability).

  Doug Brown
  http://hbd.org/jdbrown
- -- 
		     J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
		  Software Engineer  at  ProLogic, Inc.
mailto:dougbrown at citynet.net              mailto:dbrown at prologic-inc.com
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug       http://www.prologic-inc.com


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:33:40 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Racking Canes and Hot wort

<Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:57:41 
From: "forks knives" <forksnknives at hotmail.com>
Subject: flow into counterflow

Can I use a food grade plastic racking cane to transfer my wort into a 
counterflow wort chiller? Will it stand up to the heat of the just boiled 
wort? Will flexible food grade plastic tubing stand up to the heat of the 
just boiled wort?>

Probably not.  Make a metal racking cane or buy one.  Check our ours at
www.listermann.com.

You should also consider a silicon hose and clamps as well for the hot
wort.  We carry them as well.

Dan Listermann  





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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:05:34 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: Off-topic observation

I occasionally browse through the newsgroup
rec.crafts.textiles.needlework.  Nearly all the messages are posted by
women, whereas here in the HBD, you see mostly that nearly all the
messages are posted by men.

Here in the HBD, most of us refer to our spouses/spousal equivalents as
"SWMBO."

In the needlework group, you see references to "DH."

Merely one more of those things that makes some of us think that men are
from Mars and women are from some other part of the galaxy ... a very
interesting part, to be sure ... but different.

- --Danny



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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:33:45 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Nipple welding

Kevin Sinn <ksinn at sunrisegreenhouse.com> asks about welding a nipple
into the brewpot.

Mandatory joke:  ouch!   But seriously...

First, let your false bottom/strainer design determine this.  I doubt
that there is a definite "best"; a couple of inches from the bottom will
be enough.  I've never liked the idea of the dishwashing "scrubby" as a
filter, but many on the digest have had good results with one.  I prefer
a stainless steel screen as a false bottom held in place by a stainless
steel dip tube with a compression ferrule at the bottom to press down on
the bottom: (Lame ascii art)

         	|				  |
		|       //====AD=COUPLING-VALVE-FITTING
		|       ||		  |
		|       ||		  |		AD: 1/2" NPT to 3/8" compression adapter
		|       FF		  |		FF: Compression ferrule (no nut, just insert)
		|-------||----------|		Fitting:  1/2" NPT to whatever you want
		|                   |   You still need something to support the screen-
		|___________________|     several options here.
You'll need to bend the tubing in order to have good downward pressure
on the screen.  

Second, instead of a nipple (male thread), use a coupling (female
thread) as the threads will not be subject to damage by any of the work.
 

And for the record, I don't know who designed this system.  It wasn't
me.  It has, however, worked well for me.  If this isn't clear, e-mail
privately and I'll try to explain more clearly or send you a picture.  

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League				Cincinnati, OH


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:39:01 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Bottling/headspace

I read with interest Jacob Jacobsen's recent post to the HBD regarding
capping to minimize O2 in the headspace, but his experience is quite
different from mine.  If I understand correctly, the following is Jacob's
process.  Please correct me where my understanding is wrong:

1. One primes the entire batch of beer (with dextrose?).
2. One fills a bottle of already primed beer with about a 1-1.5 inch
headspace, placing a cap on top of each bottle after you have completed
filling it.
3. One continues to fill bottles, placing a cap on top of each bottle.
4. After filling about 24 bottles, the first bottle cap is lifting off the
top.
5. One begins sealing the bottles when the caps begin to lift off the top.

Question:  Is there foam in the headspace?  If so, I don't understand how
this happens.  I never see foaming when I fill, especially after sitting for
a few minutes.  I understand that some (many) commercial bottle filling
machines disturb the surface of the beer in the bottle with a fine spray of
water to generate foam just before the cap is placed on the bottle and
sealed.  

Would anyone out there care to describe a good way to cap on foam?
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:02:57 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Welding a nipple into the brewpot.

From: "Kevin Sinn" <ksinn at sunrisegreenhouse.com>
>at my workplace can weld an aluminum nipple into the pot very
>easily.  However, where on the pot should it go?
>
>Can anyone offer some advice as to how much clearance I should leave between
>the nipple and the bottom of the pot?

You say you now siphon.  You can put the valve anywhere you want on the
side of the pot.  Put is where it is convenient for you.  If you raise the valve
off the bottom of the pot you will need some sort of dip tub that reaches to
the bottom of the pot.

When the wort level is higher than the valve, the wort will flow out normally,
under it's own pressure.  When the level of the wort drops below the valve
the wort will continue to flow via siphon (that is assuming you don't have
any places that air can infiltrate and break the siphon),  Personally, my
valve is about 1" off the bottom.  I attach a tube that goes around the
circumference of the pot.  It has holes drilled in it with the holes facing
down.  I shroud the entire length of tube with a piece of SS braid that I
liberated from a SS reinforces washing machine hose.  Using water, I usually
leave no more than 1-2 cups in the pot.  Wort is slightly different as there
will be wort trapped in the hops, which you should be taking into account
anyway.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:48:28 -0500
From: cmmundt at AircraftBraking.com
Subject: Belgian Yeasts

Hello all,

     I have decided to foray into Belgian style beers because I think the
flavor and aroma additions of hops, coriander, orange peels, etc leaves an
limited as I have only made two Belgian styles previously, an
extract&honey&candi version of a strong/abbey ale and an extract version of
a Wit. The strong ale that I made was too high in alcohol (inexperience
with big beers) and that masked some of the subtler flavors of the spices
and yeast.  However, the Wit was one of the best I have made using extract
and I will being making a version of this come summer using all-grain.

     I was wondering which yeasts would be good to try for a Tripel or
Strong Ale.  I searched the archives and did not find any discussions about
the characteristics of yeasts strains that are good for Belgians.  The most
common piece of advice was to get a bottle conditioned beer, for example
Chimay, and culture the yeast.  As I am not a yeast rancher, I would rather
buy a ready-to-pitch (into a starter) yeast.  I have the Wyeast (no
affiliation, yada, yada)  descriptions of their strains, but I would like
an unbiased, if that is possible, opinion of beer made using them.  I would
prefer to use Wyeast strains because both local brew shops keep them handy,
but I am not opposed to using other brands if the general opinion has them
producing better beers.

TIA

Chad Mundt
cmmundt at aircraftbraking.com



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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:41:09 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: A Note For The Aussies

As Baron of Burradoo and unquestionably the biggest trouble maker in here,
let me make one point. I think it a grand idea to run a local Ozzie HBD but
let us not cut ourselves adrift from our worldwide brewing companions.

We've had some ups and downs and I'm sure our American friends must wonder
at times what the hell we are talking about. But I think overall everybody
has enjoyed themselves and our common focal point is here in this HBD.

I know I am a bit odd, in fact I am sure I am quite mad. But at least being
aware of this allows me to compensate. The folk who don't know they are mad
are the ones with a problem!

All I ask is that we don't shut ourselves off in little groups and cease to
communicate in the main arena. Even Steve Alexander I am sure would agree
with me. Just recently Steve offered to send me some flowers. Did this upset
Jill?
Not at all. Given that I sleep in the back yard in a tent with my turtles,
why should she care if one of my brewing mates wants to send me flowers?
Jill wrote me off a long time ago.

We can work our way through our cultural differences though I am not asking
anyone to understand mine, and I am certainly not suggesting anyone in the
world could possibly understand Graham Sanders. But as brewers, let's all at
least stick together.

Personally, in the last couple of years I reckon the HBD has been more fun
than a hat full of ars_ holes. I take my hat off to Pat and Karl for keeping
it all together.

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:16:45 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>
Subject: Rules of Thumb

After a few years of extract brewing I've come up with several rules of thumb
for
figuring recipes and predicting results.  Most aren't precise, but come out
surprising
close.  Additions, coments, flames?

Rules of Thumb

2lbs mashed grain = 1lb sugar (i.e. extract)
1lb sugar = .007 sg difference (5 gallon batch)
lbs sugar ? 2 = Finished %ABV (+/- .2) (5 gallons batch, not for big brews or
barleywine)
(OG ? FG) * 132 = %ABV
%ABV * .8 = %ABW
1quart LME = 3lbs (true for honey also, and by the way 1 quart water = 2lbs)
1.1lb LME = 1lb DME
hops alpha * oz. used * minutes in boil /60 = HBU (5 gallon batch)
HBU * 3 = IBU
5 gallons = 50 12oz bottles

(...with apologies to those in the metric world.)

Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT   USA
Having a wonderful wine.  Wish you were beer.






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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:12:08 -0500 (EST)
From: <doug at homebrew.con.com>
Subject: A damn fine beer mug

I've been on a low-level search for a suitable vessel to hold my brew.
I've cobbled some fantasy requirements together:

1) Should take two poured standard bar bottles (25 oz minimum),
2) Stainless steel (non reacting, less likely to break when slammed on the
   table to make a point),
3) Double-walled construction to keep beer at the right temperature during
   a prolonged heated argument or intermittent spell of unconsciousness.
4) Should look stylish enough to designate the user a serious beer
   drinker.

It's no problem finding 14oz travel mugs or other wussy substitutes for a
perfect beer vessel.

Anyone find something suitable?

Doug




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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:28:09 -0500
From: "Schultz, Steven W SBCCOM" <steven.schultz at SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Beer Hunting in the Great White North - Advice Needed 

Is this great news, or what?  In recognition of their 50th wedding
anniversary, my folks are footing the bill for a family vacation in June to
P.E.I., Halifax, and heaven knows where else.  Any advice for "must-see"
brewpubs or beer-related activities would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in
advance.   

Steve Schultz
Abingdon, Maryland


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:50:13 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Gear Reduction

   Ant Hayes asked how to turn his 300 rpm (max) roller mill with his 2880 
rpm motor. It's almost a 10:1 reduction, so if you can find two pulleys whose 
diameters are 10:1 you'll be able to turn the mill at 288 rpm. The small 
pulley would go on the motor, the large one on the mill. It may not be 
practical to use such a setup due to the size differences, so you could do 
two sets of pulleys each 5:1. The small pulley goes on the motor, it's large 
partner gets attached to a shaft with the second small pulley which turns 
it's large partner on the mill.
   I use a variable speed hand drill, but it is difficult to hold a steady 
low rpm against the torque requirements of the mill. Eventually I'll go to a 
more permanent motorized setup.
      Gus Rappold
      Massapequa, New York


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:58:27 -0500
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com>
Subject: re: Headspace levels and carbonation

Greetings:

Reading Louis' results makes me wonder about another issue...

As I have had some problems with carbonation in the past, some kind folks
have indicated (and I have passed on) that inverting the bottle resuspends
yeast which may help with carbonation.  With O2 still in the headspace, I
would imagine that could oxygenate the beer, which Louis says may not
necessarily be consumed by the yeast.

Now, my beers have carbonated just fine using the above advice, and I
haven't really noticed any off flavors, but it is just a thought.

I guess it again is risk vs. reward, flat beer vs. carbonated stale beer
(after time has passed.)

Scott Snyder
Trumbull, CT
ssnyder at lbghq.com

Rotten Rotti Brewing Company



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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:19:00 -0500
From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT at solutia.com>
Subject: 15G Keg Fermenters

     Mike Branam asks about:
     
     Subject: 15.5 gallon beer keg as a fermenter
     Has anyone used a 15.5 gallon beer keg to make a fermenter? If so 
     tell how did you do it ?
     How well did it work?
     
     Mike,
     
     I've tried it and I love it!
     
     Here's how:
     
     Remove the valve assembly and clean thoroughly the inside of the 
     keg.  I used dishwashing detergent and bleach.  I have also placed 
     the clean keg on my burner with some water (1-2g) and boiled it, 
     kind of steam sterilization.
     
     I then obtained a stopper to fit the opening (number zillion or 
     something) or you can use one of those red "carboy caps" they also 
     fit although very snugly!  I fashioned a racking cane out of 1/2" 
     SS tubing to draw off the beer.  Attach a length of plastic 
     (flexible) tubing to this and close off with a hose clamp.  Then 
     make s short piece of 1/2" SS tubing that extends into the keg a 
     few inches, attach a piece of tubing to this and place the end in a 
     jug for fermentation lock.  The keg can now accept chilled wort for 
     fermentation, pitch yeast and ferment.  If you brew <13 gallons, 
     you will have no problem with foam pluggage as there will be enough 
     headspace to accommodate even the most vigorous ferment.  If you 
     want to brew a larger volume say 14 or more, you may have a slight 
     problem with foam, which is to say some foamy sh*t will come out 
     the gas line and enter your jug fermentation lock, not really a 
     problem.  
     
     During fermentation, I monitor the temperature with a "Fermometer" 
     which is an adhesive strip thermometer that I stick onto the keg.  
     I monitor activity by observing the gas evolution through the gas 
     out hose.  I take samples for SG by clamping the gas out hose and 
     opening the hose on the racking cane, allow the pressure to build 
     and out comes a sample!  You can place the end of a "Turkey baser" 
     on the hose and suck it out as well.
     
     When fermentation is complete, I use CO2 pressure on the gas out 
     hose to force the beer into a keg via the hose on the racking cane 
     (to which I attach a liquid out ball lock or pin lock corny keg 
     fitting) 
     
     Cleaning is the only problem!  I use dishwashing detergent with 
     bleach and fill with water, allow to sit for a day or so then 
     rinse.  You will have a bit of a problem inspecting the inside of 
     the keg for residue, and will probably obsess over how clean it 
     really is for a while, but I have not had a problem with 
     infections, yet.  Again, you can always sanitize by boiling a 
     gallon or two of water in the keg and allowing the steam to rise 
     out the top, let the keg get really hot on top and you will 
     probably do okay.
     
     SABCO Inc. sells some very nice keg conversions that will help, 
     they weld the top of a cornelius keg to the top of the Sankey keg 
     which allows you to open the keg a little wider for cleaning and 
     inspection.  A little pricey, but may be on my long term shopping 
     list. 
     
     Good luck, I ferment in SS now for everything!
     
     Roger Ayotte 
     
     
     I 


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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:02:41 -0700
From: "Doug Marion" <mariondoug at hotmail.com>
Subject: re:hops to grow

Since traveling on business, have been catching up on the digest so  
appologize for being a little behind on subject matter.

I'm currently growing 7 hop varieties for a total of 24 plants.
Liberty and Mt Hood have an average yield for me. Both have produced 
excellent beers. I prefer the Liberty if I had to choose one. Some of my 
Tettnanger plants are doing well and one is not. Perle does pretty well and 
I like this hop. Kent Goldings grow big and heavy. Doesn't seem like they 
are producing the classic Golding carracter that I would like but will keep 
trying. Cascades are vigorous and quite happy. Classic Cascade carracter. My 
Chinooks are new last season and did produce some huge cones (5" long) which 
I still have yet to try. I think I would like to have some Northern Brewer 
but am out of room.

My hops are furrowed and flood irrigated which seems to be the best if you 
can do it. They grow up to a 14' top wire on a trellis. I harvest and dry 
them in a large custom built hop dryer, vacuum seal and freeze all within 
24hrs. I brew 10 gallon all grain batches and I yield way more hops than I 
can use, so give quite a bit away. Overall I am very happy with my homegrown 
hops.

I'm lucky to live in a large hop growing region where soil conditions and 
climate are good. Consequently, local knowledge is good so help from the 
extension office is available.

Cheers,
Doug Marion
Meridian Idaho


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