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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
New Louisville Brew club site. ("Murray, Eric")
White Beer ("R&P Aceto")
CC fermenters ("Jim Busch")
One kettle HERMS ("Joel King")
Hey John Yust ("Peed, John")
One Thought (Each) on Mashtun Coolers and CCs (mohrstrom)
diastatic enzymes in honey ("Richard B. Dulany Jr.")
One more new brewer's question ("Hedglin, Nils A")
Re: Trip to Germany - Dusseldorf (Brunnenbraeu)
fermenter envy ("Larry Maxwell")
Great Foments in Hystery (BShotola)
Fruit Extract Brewing (Greg Stephens)
Enough Already!! ("Gustave Rappold")
re: Cognitive Dissonance ("Mark Tumarkin")
beer on the Banks ("Morgan or Margi Jones")
Nottingham (JGORMAN)
Thanks (JGORMAN)
Laaglander Mashing in IPA ("Steven Parfitt")
Re: still on the FWH trail! (Jeff Renner)
Wait, Don't throw away that Thermometer ("Pete Calinski")
re: O'fest ALE??? ("Kensler, Paul")
steeping grains (Marc Sedam)
CC fermenters and reality ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
My CC Decision ("Doug Hurst")
RE: ring around the color, more CC and reality comments ("Murray, Eric")
re: Cognitive Dissonance (Jim Adwell)
Many Thanks from a new brewer ("Hedglin, Nils A")
fermenter geometry ("Gordon Strong")
Munchen Helles recipes ("Jay Wirsig")
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/17/01!
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:55:03 -0500
From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
Subject: New Louisville Brew club site.
Greetings fellow brewers.
LAGERS, the Louisville Area Grain and Extract Research Society has finally
registered our own domain name, and I have been in the process of
redesigning the old website
The new one can be found at www.lagersclub.com . Our club has close to 80
members and we have a lot of fun at various events, brew-ins, and other
activities. Any of you HBDr's out their in the Louisville area that are not
currently members are encouraged to give us a call, stop by a meeting, or
join in on the festivities.
Others are welcome to check out the website and let me know what you think.
There is still lots of content to be added, such as links to the AHA, the
HBD or course, articles, etc...
Upcoming Events, newsletters, pictures, and other information can be found
on the site now as well.
Maybe Mr. Alexander will even take a gander if I have not tweaked his mood
to badly.
Keep the carboy's full !
Eric Murray,
Louisville, KY
emurray at sud-chemieinc.com
cozye at bellsouth.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:32:05 -0500
From: "R&P Aceto" <rpaceto at together.net>
Subject: White Beer
Just had a fairly good white beer the other day after work. I remember
buying and drinking a beer called La Dux (or something similar) from either
France or Belgium when I lived in Chicago (it came in a Champagne bottle).
anyway this white beer brought me back and I was hoping someone out there
could provide me with a nice recipe, preferably one that finished a bit on
the sweeter side (it has to appeal to my wife). thanks in advance,
Russ A.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:52:45 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: CC fermenters
Two features I look for in CC fermenters seem to be unavailable in
such small (under 1 BBL) tanks. A manway that seals tight from the
inside out so that one can spund the tank and develop pressure
naturally and the CIP spray ball feature. Now once you say CIP, it
means a decent pump that can push enough velocity through the spray
ball so that is yet another cost item to calculate in. (I did manage
to replace my old industrial pump with a sparkling new $750 unit that
was sold off for $100 when one of our local micros went under....).
As for ball valve versus triclover, the bottom should be triclover
with butterfly while the side racking port can be ball valve since
you only open the side port once to transfer the beer. Just be sure
to spray Iodophor on any valve before and after using. A small brush
can be useful for those with Zwickel ports as well (and a CC tank
should have a Zwickel at least in the larger versions).
As the units get bigger one has to consider external chilling from
chilled water or glycol. I would think the option to pump a closed
loop circuit through the tanks might be attractive over alternative
methods. The benefit of a very small unit is it can fit in the
frige.
Some of my best beer was made in open fermenters with 1-1 height to
width ratios. Also made a lot of fine beer with a unitank too. Cost
effectiveness cannot be argued for a CC and the more engineering
oriented you are the costs escalate rapidly. But, a spund tank that
naturally carbonates and matures, allows inline filtration to the
kegs and can be sampled daily from the Zwickel and then CIPed is
certainly very nice to have.
Prost!
Jim Busch
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:06:51 -0000
From: "Joel King" <joel_d_king at hotmail.com>
Subject: One kettle HERMS
I'm an all-grain brewer looking to make the leap from a 5-gallon drink
cooler with a Phil's Phalse Bottom (thanks, Dan, it's worked great for
years) to a Heat Exchanger Recirculating Infusion Mash (HERMS)system.
I've spent a fair amount of time web surfing looking at other people's
systems. One that caught my eye was Vance Sabbe's two-tier
non-recirculating system using a single kettle and two picnic coolers.
http://www.concentric.net/~vsabbe/portabrew.htm
It occurred to me that I ought to be able to take his design and make it
into a HERMS by installing the heat exchanger coil in the kettle. The
single kettle would perform all heating processes:
1. Heat mash water in kettle
2. Pump mash water to crushed malt in mash tun (upper cooler)
3. Heat sparge water in kettle (or enough water to cover heat exchanger)
4. Recirc mash liquid through heat exchanger in kettle
5. Pump sparge water to sparge vessel (lower cooler)
6. Pump sparge water to mash tun while gravity draining wort to kettle
7. Boil wort in kettle
8. Pump from kettle to fermenter via counterflow chiller
The heat exchanger would remain installed in the kettle during the boil, but
shouldn't intefere with the boil. It would be 15 to 20 feet of coiled 1/2"
copper tubing.
Drawbacks:
1. Can't recirc mash until sparge water is heated
2. Much pumping, reconfiguring fluid system (will use ball valves & quick
disconnects, me thinks.)
This concept appeals to me because...
1. Relatively inexpensive HERMS (just one kettle and burner)
2. HERMS not RIMS, therefore no heating element to clean or electronics
subject to electro-magnetic pulse should WWIII erupt during a brewing
session.
3. Lightweight system easily moved (entire brewery no larger than a big gas
grill, toss in pickup truck, now it's an urban assault brewery...)
Has anyone else done this? Or have any comments / suggestions?
- -- Joel King --
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:03:25 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Hey John Yust
Hey John Yust, you lurkin' son of a gun, I know you're lurkin' around out
there on your lunch hour ... shoot me an e-mail, please, I don't have your
address. I want to discuss the ProMash program. For that matter, anyone
wlse who wants to discuss it, shoot me an e-mail too. When rattling around
with the tutorials and included recipes, I'm finding some pretty weird
results. It looks like it can be a very helpful tool, but I feel that it
has some serious holes in it. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Sorry, I don't
have my hands around it well enough yet to be able to list my reservations
specifically, but I will get to that point soon. Again, maybe I'm just
expecting too much, or I don't understand everything I know about it.
John Peed
Knoxville, TN
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:32:29 -0500
From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com
Subject: One Thought (Each) on Mashtun Coolers and CCs
I _think_ I have a Rubbermaid 10Gal (I haven't bothered to read the label
in some time.) Any road, it's orange. The single most obvious design
differentiation that I could point to is that the handles are integral to
the molded shell. This seemed to me to be more robust than the swiveling
handles inserted into holes in the shell on the Igloo(?) coolers. This
could be a factor after several trips lugging saturated grain to the
compost heap.
On CCs: folks, this is a _hobby_! We EXPECT to pay more than we can
justify for our "stuff." I am as chea..., er, "thrifty" as the next guy,
but I have to face that fact that I have spent far more on "stuff" than I
would have on beer alone (OK, so maybe that's an exaggeration ...)
Mark in Kalamazoo
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:39:18 -0700
From: "Richard B. Dulany Jr." <RDulany at co.el-paso.tx.us>
Subject: diastatic enzymes in honey
Greetings all,
The following link has some interesting information about using honey in
beermaking:
http://www.honey.com/recipes/beer/index.html#Historical
The article includes this information about honey's diastatic enzymes:
"The possible incorporation of honey's diastatic enzymes (alpha-amylase and
beta-amylase) to beer could pose further complications for brewing with
honey . . . . Honey should be added in such a way so that its diastatic
enzymes (alpha-amylase and beta-amylase) do not degrade the dextrins
(non-fermentable carbohydrates) in beer into simple sugars, thereby
destroying the texture and body of the end product. . . . Honey added to
fermenting beer wort not only decreases the dextrin content of the beer
proportionately by dilution, but it also increases the potential alcohol
content of the finished beer by increasing the proportion of fermentable
sugars in the wort."
If this is true, couldn't extract brewers take advantage of honey's
diastatic enzymes to utilize specialty grains that would otherwise have to
be mashed? Essentially, you would be using honey to "mash" your specialty
grains.
I'm interested in giving this a try, but don't have much of a technical
background. Has anyone ever tried this before? If not, can someone suggest a
method for trying a "honey mash" ?
Salud!
Ricardo
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:14:46 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: One more new brewer's question
How long should I let the primary fermentation go, until it stops bubbling
completely or until it slows down significantly (like once every 30
seconds)? How long should I let secondary fermentation go since if I recall
correctly, there isn't much fermentation to gauge the process by?
Thanks again
Nils
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:39:00 EST
From: Brunnenbraeu at aol.com
Subject: Re: Trip to Germany - Dusseldorf
In einer eMail vom 06.03.01 06:33:12 (MEZ) Mitteleuropaeische Zeit schreibt
Mauricio Wagner <info at alean.com.ar>:
> I'm leaving in Argentina and next week I'll fly to Dusseldorf.
> I would like to buy some wheat malt in Germany.
> Does any one one know a homebrewer shop there, perhaps web site address?
> Also good places to drink a weissbier ?
Hi, Mauricio,
just to get informed about the Duesseldorf beer scene, you can go to
http://www.biercity.de/duesseldorf/duesseldorf.html
This site gives a good overview, especially if you read under the keywords
'Brauereien', 'Biergeschichte' and 'Brauhaeuser'. But don't expect to find
friends, if you order any other beer than 'altbier'. Try to stay anonymous,
if you're asking for a weissbier ;-)
As to your question concerning wheat malt, I can't help you, because I've
always bought via mail order.
Hope it helps anyway.
Cheers / Zum Wohl / Na zdrowie,
Volker
Volker R. Quante
Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery
Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:38:53 -0500
From: "Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>
Subject: fermenter envy
What I think is really going on here is that some guys like to play
with scaled-down fermenters just like other guys like to play with
scale model trains. Come on, admit that the difference in beer
quality is probably negligible and the other "advantages" all boil
down to it being fun and enjoyable. It's all about the thing being
fun to play with and look at. It's a sports car. It's model trains.
I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money. When some
people wonder how I could have spent $1000 on my brewery, I
ask them how much they spent on those titanium golf clubs. Hey,
I'm one of the guilty. No Porsche for me, but give me a shiny
stainless steel gadget with valves and stuff and ... well, I can feel
my heart pounding already! To each his own hobby indulgences.
My hat goes off to the first of you CC owners to admit you bought
it because it's fun and no more or less a waste of money than those
golf clubs.
Larry
Atlanta
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:13:38 EST
From: BShotola at aol.com
Subject: Great Foments in Hystery
Hello fellow Clergy of Zymurgy,
Regardless of internal pressure, I see why a happy go lucky brewer could
really blow his yeast cake after reading some of this CC vs. Bambi thread.
Geez Louise! I don't have a page down key, but its like trying to look away
from an accident. I am transfixed by this study in -Sychosis.
Out out, damned spot!
In a related incident, a friend just reported a near catastrophe in his
laundry room / brewery which occurred after he absentmindedly poured hot wort
straight into a glass carboy. He immediately saw and heard a hairline crack
form around the bottom, but being a thrill seeker (and, he admits, an idiot)
he went ahead and topped off with cold water and pitched yeast.
After leaving the bottle in place to ferment for a week, he wrapped a strip
of the handyman's secret weapon, you guessed it, DuctTape, around the crack
and then proceeded to lift the sumbitch up on to his dryer (Whirlpool model
#54098754670 at an average height of 36.0042 inches dead level reckoning by
laser) to siphon into the bottling bucket. Page Down now if you must!
As the end of siphoning, he lifted the empty (save for yeast cake) carboy off
the dryer and it promptly came apart in two neat pieces, one in each hand,
with the most wicked cutting edge exposed on each. The tape was strictly an
illusion. He wasn't even wearing gloves. He was unhurt and did not pass out,
but did slop some slurry on his shoes, and has been seen again in church the
last couple of Sundays.
He might have had to change his briefs before continuing also, but I don't
think so. Let me qualify by saying this is strictly conjectural as I wasn't
*there* and haven't had *personal experience* with that kind of brief (Fruit
of the Loom, the Yugo of underwear). In addition to being stainless, these
briefs are considered to be as good as plastic. Their wide, shallow geometry
allows a firmly settled cake, and sets up favorable convection currents.
(Sansabelt et. al, "Boxers vs. Briefs" 1977) They are disposable to boot.
Now, this gentleman is a highly intelligent Princeton graduate and successful
software engineer, and you would think he would have known better. Certainly
any one of us would have. I'm right aren't I? But you know how guys get
around beer and stuff, kind of loopy and off center. Its a beautiful hobby
that way. Anyway, I have a question to pose to the collective: I would like
to brew a SamiClaus in the 2.090 range, so obviously I am going to need a
strong vessel. When gluing two halves of a carboy back together, should I use
Duco Cement, or Epoxy?
Bob Shotola
Yamhill Oregon
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 00:21:03 -0800
From: Greg Stephens <greg at nworks.net>
Subject: Fruit Extract Brewing
I've been doing extract brewing and partial-mash brewing with primary
fermenting only.
I'm planning on trying an Apricot Extract ale (I tried Magic Hat's apricot
ale on a couple trips back east last year and would like to do something
like that).
Can anyone recommend how I might add a fruit extract to an extract Pale Ale
recipe to get the best results.
In reviewing past HBD's I found a recommendation to do a secondary
fermentation of 1-2 weeks, adding the fruit extract at the beginning of the
secondary.
TIA,
Greg Stephens
Modesto, CA
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 3:52:0 -0500
From: "Gustave Rappold" <grappold at earthlink.net>
Subject: Enough Already!!
Jim Adwell gives us all a little perspective, I especially love the line
"She's so anal-retentive she can't sit down for fear of sucking up the
furniture." - Jennifer Saunders
...that's a classic. I like to read a good discussion, but there's a
point when that quote seems to kick in and bring us all back to reality.
I'm sure I could get into it over my 15 gallon Limousin Oak cask that cost
me about what a cylindro-conical goes for, but there comes a point where
whats important to you isn't to the next guy. Whether it be cost,
performance, or whatever, we all have our priorities, so nitpicking only
gets me to exercise my page down button.
Gus
Check out my system at http://home.earthlink.net/~grappold
- --- Gustave Rappold
- --- grappold at earthlink.net
- --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:31:46 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Cognitive Dissonance
Jim Adwell sent in the following:
"Authorities are blaming the death of Gomer Timpson, 33, of 123 Goose Pecker
Ridge Road, on severe chronic cognitive dissonance disease (SCCDD). Mr.
Timpson was found in his garage/brewhouse with his head stuck in a plastic
brewing bucket Saturday morning by his wife, Thelma."
gee, it sure is a shame about Gomer...but , you could'a seen it coming. This
newest model of the More Beer Stuff Than You Can Ever Imagine conical yeast
progagator has etched nucleation sites that when examined by polarized light
microscopy bear a suspicious resemblence to a tartan plaid - surely a disaster
waiting to happen.
Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:34:34 -0500
From: "Morgan or Margi Jones" <2mjones at mis.net>
Subject: beer on the Banks
Eric Lande wanted to know where to drink on the Outer Banks,(truly an
exceptional place!). There's a brewpub in Manteo, on Roanoke Island just
before you get to the Banks, called the Weeping Radish. Their specialty is
German Lagers, and they're quite authentic. Last time I was there they had a
good alt and a fair pale ale in addition to the usual lagers. The wife
doesn't care for them, 'cause she's a hophead, but to me they are a welcome
stop. Food is pretty tasty too, if you like German food. They also have a
pub in Corolla, at the north end of the Banks. They sell beer to go in
growlers and bombers, and one can sometimes find their beer in local
outlets.
If you take a daytrip to Okracoke Island (highly recommended-it's a 30
minute free ferry ride from Hatteras Village -s. of Avon), check out
Howard's pub. It's the first business on the right as you come into Okracoke
from the ferry landing. In addition to awesome food, they have over 100
bottled beers, and a few drafts. The selections in package stores are pretty
limited- Budmillors seems to be the rule; I usually stop in Chapel Hill on
the way and stock up on microbrews, plus bring a keg or 2 of homebrew,
depending on the length of my stay.
Hope this helps, and enjoy your stay on the Outer Banks!
Morgan Jones
Bagdad, KY
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:45:00 -0500
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Nottingham
I have used the Danstar products quite a bit over the last few years and I
consistently have problems when I re-hydrate. I re-hydrate in warm water, at
room temp, chilled, with yeast nutrient, in wort........ They all seem to be
slow to start or don't at all. Now I just tear and dump. I know this sort
of defeats the purpose of dry yeast but sometimes I make a starter with about
a quart of wort the night before. I get activity in the primary in a few
hours.
Jason Gorman
River Dog Brewery
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:55:00 -0500
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: Thanks
""Sorry, the "mini-krausen" line is a load of crap.""
Glen, you have such a way with words. Thank you for your enlightening nugget
of wisdom! : > !!
Jason Gorman
River Dog Brewery
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:44:51 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Laaglander Mashing in IPA
Well the second experiment is under way.
As I previously posted, I had an IPA that had a high Terminal Gravity which
I surmised was due to using Laaglander Light DME. I did an experiment in
which I was able to mash the dme by adding some malted barley.
I have now made a second batch of IPA per my previous recipe, with the
change of Mashing the Laaglander DME in with a pound of American two row
pale malt in a gallon and a half of water before adding the remaining
ingredients.
Other changes to the recipe which should not effect terminal gravity were
(1)change hops to reduce the bitterness (2) add the honey with the aroma
hops instead of with bittering hops (3) add FWH hops at the mashout of the
grain/Laaglander.
Initial SpGr taken last night was 1.064, just slightly higher than the
previous batch (due to the addition of the pale malt, which I tried to
compensate for by reducing the honey by one cup).
Yeast was the same type, Wyeast 1024 blister pack. Starter made the day
before consisting of one pack of yeast at full blister pitched in one cup of
water which was boiled with 1/2C Laaglander Light DME.
I'll post in about 3 weeks what the terminal gravity is. I checked the
original IPA last night, and it is still at 1.020, after two months.
Steven - Ironhead Pico-Brewery (Working on upgrading to Nano-Brewery)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:52:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: still on the FWH trail!
Last week (sorry) "Peter Gunczy" <pcgunczy at primus.com.au> wrote:
>In my quest to succeed in FWH is the temperature of the sparged wort which
>runs to the kettle important ? My hops are soaking in wort which is approx.
>55deg C(130 F) for 45-60 mins.
I don't know how that temperature would extract the goodies from the
hops. The method that was studied and reported in Brauwelt involved
steeping the hops at runoff temperature, which would be 60-70C. For
homebrewers, the temperature would likely drop off during the hour or
so of runoff (lautering), so I keep a little heat under the kettle to
maintain this temperature. Big breweries, of course, will have large
enough kettles that the temperature would drop very little.
For Dave Draper's FWH summary, go to http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html.
I really like the effect of FWH, especially for pilsners.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:21:15 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Wait, Don't throw away that Thermometer
John Adsit recently posted the results of his thermometer calibration:
- ---------------------------------------------------
The results?
Freezing = 36F
Body temp = 92F
Boiling (at 5,440 feet elevation) = 192F
- ------------------------------------------------------
Don't throw it away, I have a number of thermometers that have indicated as
poorly as that or worse. I just readjust them. I assume it is the dial
type. If so, everyone I have ever seen has a nut on the back that you can
turn with respect to the scale and set it to be correct at one temperature.
As I said before, I set mine to be correct in the range of mash/sparge
temperatures, something like 150F to 170F. Then I check and note the error
at around room temperature. These two temperature ranges are the only ones
I care about. The first for mashing and the second for chilling. I don't
care about freezing, body temperature, or boiling.
The one problem with my method is of course, you need an accurate "standard
thermometer" to measure the actual temperature in the mash range. Sorry I
can't help you there.
Good luck
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:46:22 -0500
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: O'fest ALE???
Bob said:
>Then I saw a German Octoberfest/Marzen. As I generally like lagered
Octoberfest's this
>was labeled as an ALE. <snip> Is this another way to brew one of my
favorites?
The answer has more to do with state alcohol labeling laws, than with
brewing techniques. If I remember correctly, Spaten's and Paulaner's
O'fests were both labeled as "ales" on the bottles for sale in Texas,
although they are truly lagers. I used to live in Texas, so I guess I got
used to it, but there are more wacky labeling laws and restrictions than I
can remember (data was purged immediately upon crossing the border on my way
out).
I think the "ale" definition had to do with alcohol content - don't quote me
on this, but I think the way Texas defines beer is
Beer (low to medium alc.)
Ale (medium)
Bock (high)
-There might be a "malt liquor" definition in there somewhere too.
God bless Texas. The state had weird labeling laws, but at least they
weren't in the distribution business ;-) (inside joke for those unfortunate
beer lovers like me living in Montgomery County, MD).
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:59:01 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: steeping grains
An alternate approach to steeping grains (or getting their sugary
goodness out) that I used for years is ye olde coffee maker. The
basket of your standard drip coffee pot holds 1/4 lb of grain.
Steep the grain in 150F water for 15 mins, then scoop the grains
into the filter basket (with filter). Run two pots of water
through the coffee pot for each 1/4 lb of grain.
You wind up extracting almost all of the sugars from the grains
and gain the advantage of having lots of hot "wort". When I
brewed primarily with extracts I'd do my "Specialty Grain Coffee"
first and collect all that hot wort (each coffee pot is about 1/2
gallon). Dissolving the malt extract in the hot water (it comes
out around 170F) was a snap, and the time to boiling was quick,
even on an electric stove. Doing this for over a pound of
specialty grains can be a PITA, but I still do it if I don't like
the color of my wort by steeping about 2oz of chocolate malt and
making a pot.
An added use of the coffee pot is that running a batch of water
through it gives you a pot of hot water that's almost always
170-175F...perfect for sparging!
All of this was published in Brewing Techniques a few years ago
(by me...no plagarism here), but it's always good to recirculate
ideas. Enjoy!
Cheers!
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC (where a TV sits in our office in wait of the
ACC tournament)
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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:07:52 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: CC fermenters and reality
Ron La Borde writes of the CC discussion:
>Oh no, I was glad to get his [Steve A.] opinion on the CC fermenters.
>Heck, I was just
>about to kick dents in my old corny fermenter, when just in time our hero
>Steve comes up with the logical facts.
I too must thank Steve A. for challenging the CC issues. It has been less
than 1 year since I have gone to all stainless brewing in 10 and 5 gallon
cornies. This equipment has given me a much needed sense of security and
yes, I must say... MANLINESS! So much so, that my wife has even noticed the
difference. I boldly strut around the house with a corny slung over my
shoulder. And flexing myself in front of the shiny stainless fermenters
while staring at my blurry reflection gets her hot!
But these discussions over CC fermenters have given me a huge feeling of
inadequacy. I never new that so many people had them and that brewing was
so much better. My manliness faded and SWMBO went back to her Fabio
calendars, realizing that I am not the true brewing god she thought I was.
I had... CC ENVY!!!
Oh it was a problem, sure. I thought of selling my truck for the cash to
buy a CC fermenter and a cooling jacket. But what would I use to transport
my brewing supplies with? I even looked into cashing in some of my 401K
funds. I didn't care about the penalties. The bank even turned me down
saying that it didn't fit under their definition of "home improvement". I
was at the end of my rope.
Now thanks to Steve, I have a renewed confidence in my equipment. I feel
manly again! Ready to brew another batch!
I couldn't help but satirize here. I'm a gadget lover & techno-buff. I
would love to have a CC, but cost is most definitely a factor. For now I
will just have to be jealous of other's gadgets and be happy that my beer
tastes damn fine regardless.
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"I have made this letter longer than usual,
because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:18:28 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: My CC Decision
Hmmm let me see:
CC Fermenter = $400.00 or more
6.5 Gallon Glass Carboy = $20.00 or less
Beer produced from either = good to the last drop.
My mind is made up on which to buy.
-Doug Hurst,
Chicago, IL
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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:34:40 -0500
From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
Subject: RE: ring around the color, more CC and reality comments
Tom & Jason state
>>On several of my last batches of beer I get ring around the collar. ....
>>I was wondering if it could be caused by priming with DME? "
to which Glen Pannicke adds
>I prime with all manner of fermentables, including DME. Never have I seen
a
>ring a round the bottle neck when using DME. I can say that you will see
it
>if you have and infection in your bottle, though. Use a bottle brush &
>detergent to scrub out your bottles before sanitizing and storing/refilling
>them. This kills the nasties and destroys the stuff they hide behind in
the
>bottle.
>Sorry, the "mini-krausen" line is a load of crap.
Sorry Tom & Jason, Glen is exactly correct,, and the last issue of Zymurgy
will confirm that. Pick up a copy, the whole issue is on sanitation,
infection, the causes, and the cures.
One particular chart (sorry I don't have it in front of me), the ring around
the collar symptom was listed as a definite infection along with the exact
bacteria that causes it and if I remember correctly explains the flavor of
this type of infection. This issue also has various articles on good
sanitation techniques that are not overly complicated.
Bill Riel replies to my post regarding Steve's comments on CC's
>And, while I wouldn't say that I necessarily share his opinion on this
>subject, I think it's valuable that he's expressing his skepticism.
>These things are expensive! Especially in comparison to the miniscule
>cost of the alternatives. For those of us who don't own these things
>but would possibly consider buying one in the future, this is exactly
>the type of discussion that's worth following.
There is a lot of value in expressing skepticism, but it goes beyond that
when you repeatedly try and develop an argument and try to prove others
experience and fondness of the CC's wrong especially when you don't have the
advantage of owning and trying it out for yourself. Especially when ever
single person that has one has expressed their complete joy of using them,
including George Fix (who's opinion I would very much respect). I am not
saying that the scientific arguments are right or wrong on either side. My
only point was if they enjoy brewing with them and like their beers, stop
trying to tell them how wrong and foolish they were to buy them.
I don't own a CC, I use plain old 7 gallon Carboy's and I make great beers
with them. I would however always entertain the option of buying one if I
could round up the cash. I am sure that the beer you made with it would be
at least as good as it was before.
Brian Lundeen writes;
>The purpose of this forum is to help people become better brewers.
Sometimes
>that means discouraging people from practices that they "like" if the
>accepted wisdom indicates that it is the wrong thing to do. Even if they
>aren't convinced to change, at least it might prevent someone else from
>repeating those mistakes. Steve is doing exactly what he should be doing as
>one of the experienced and knowledgeable voices in this group.
I agree on the purpose of this forum. Again, the problem is that Steve is
not experienced in brewing with CC's personally (from my understanding). I
don't think anyone with experience with them has expressed that it is the
wrong thing to do, quite the contrary. I did not read one post that said
someone bought a CC and it was a mistake. Did I miss that part? What I got
out of Steve's numerous post was that if you bought one you were a fool to
spend the money to get it. Again, that's up to the individual, a 2000 dollar
top of the line CC might be more important to some people than driving a
Porsche.
I have received a few private emails, one of our fellow brewers expanded on
and simplified my point very well (I will not post his identity since he did
not post it publicly):
>Well put, Eric.
>I think Mr. Alexander is one of those guys who, although very
>knowledgeable, seems to be insecure about it and as a result is always
>trying to impress everyone (and more importantly, himself) with his
>knowledge. Very tiresome. My page down button is wearing out.
You must remember, no one asked for any help or debate on CC's it all
started in HBD #3566
Mr. Alexander states:
>Finally, Dan Steadman suggested that the conical fermentor is at fault
(which was simply a joke from Dan Steadman)
Mr. Alexander goes on:
>A sub-15gal cylindroconical owner and his money are soon parted. Seems a
terribly
>expensive way to harvest yeast, and the principles of large CC fermenter
that
>improve fermentation performance don't apply on the smaller scale.
Which again Mr. Alexander has no experience or factual basis to claim this
as anything but a theory or opinion to which Steven Claussen simply supplies
his experience, joy, and observations of using his CC. From that point on is
where Mr. Alexander proceeds to Convince Mr. Claussen that his observations
and joy are just illusions and he was a fool to buy it.
Mr. Claussen, I would love to come by sometime and verify your joy and
observations with your CC, one day I might be lucky enough to afford one.
Eric Murray
Louisville, KY
emurray at sud-chemieinc.com
cozye at bellsouth.net
www.lagersclub.com
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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:10:35 -0500
From: Jim Adwell <jimala2 at ptd.net>
Subject: re: Cognitive Dissonance
Mark Tumarkin wrote:
>gee, it sure is a shame about Gomer...but , you could'a seen it coming. This
>newest model of the More Beer Stuff Than You Can Ever Imagine conical yeast
>progagator has etched nucleation sites that when examined by polarized light
>microscopy bear a suspicious resemblence to a tartan plaid - surely a
disaster
>waiting to happen.
>
Gomer is sadly with us no more, but I'm more worried about his four
brothers making beer in their kids' wading pools - YEECHH!!!
Guess I'll stick to my rusty, err, trusty HDPE bucket. I would be using my
12 gallon Pyrex carboy, but it broke suddenly one day last month; it
probably felt that it was old and worthless, technologically speaking,
compared to a new bright shiny conical fermenter, and committed suicide. (
carbocide? )
I wonder if anyone has written a paper on the effect of tartan plaid on the
health of brewing yeast?
Just a thought....
Cheers, Jim
stolen sig o' th' day:
Alf's home planet was destroyed when everyone on the planet
plugged their hair dryers in at the same time.
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/
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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:36:09 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Many Thanks from a new brewer
I was overwhelmed with the number of answers I had waiting for me this
morning answering my questions. Thanks to all you that responded. I think
I may have figured out my high OG problem. I completely forgot about the
need to aerate the beer, so when I added the cold water to top off to 5 gal,
it didn't get completely mixed in with the wort. In order to fill the
hydrometer tube faster, I was sticking the racking tube as far down into the
carboy as possible, so it was probably capturing the undiluted wort at the
bottom since the water was still mostly sitting on top. I'm pretty sure my
concentrated boil was down to 3 gal when I finished, so should I just reduce
my OG by 60% since that's the ratio between the 3 gal concentrated boil &
the 5 gal final volume? If so, then my OG comes out to be 56 when the
recipe's OG was 62. The recipe I used is at
http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/05_107.html. Also, now that I look back at
the recipe, I see the recommended fermentation times which answer my 2nd set
of questions too.
Thanks again,
Nils Hedglin
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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:00:21 -0500
From: "Gordon Strong" <strongg at earthlink.net>
Subject: fermenter geometry
I guess the CC thread is still OK because no one has said "Hitler" or "Nazi"
yet...
At the Spirit of Belgium conference, a one talk mentioned briefly the
relationship between fermenter geometry, fermentation temperature, and
quality of finished product. I don't remember who made the particular
comment; it could have been Garrett Oliver from Brooklyn, or Chris White of
White Labs. Someone said that Belgian yeasts can be fermented at a much
warmer than normal temperatures (76-85F) and still have a pleasant/desirable
flavor/aroma profile if fermented rapidly in shallow fermenters. Now, I
don't know if they are referring to ambient temperature or the actual wort
temperature during fermentation. If they meant ambient temperature, perhaps
the shallow fermenters imply a lower fermentation temperature due to more
efficient cooling from the larger exposed surface area (when compared to a
"normal" geometry fermenter whether carboy or CC). But all this seemed to
be very anecdotal. However, the examples furnished at the conference were
full of complex flavors with nothing "off" noted.
Has this phenomenon been discussed in any brewing literature, or validated
by anyone through experimentation? I'd be interested in understanding the
variables and process better.
Gordon Strong
Beavercreek, Ohio
strongg at earthlink dot net
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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:38:35 -0500
From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com>
Subject: Munchen Helles recipes
I was planning to make a Munchen Helles using the yeast cake from my Budvar
(currently lagering in a carboy). I was planning to use 100% pils (pauls)
for the grain bill but was open to options. I'm planning 18-23 IBU with a
lot of late hop additions for aroma. Anybody have any suggestions?
>>Jay
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