---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  New brewers questions ("Eric R. Lande")
  RE: O'fest ALE??? ("Lyga, Daniel M.")
  Mackeson's Triple Stout and Aeration ("Penn, John")
  Re: Questions from a new brewer ("Doug Hurst")
  New Brewer Nils (Frank Tutzauer)
  Specialty grain soaking/rinsing (Nathan Matta)
  copper corrosion by natural gas (not beer related) ("Michael G. Zentner")
  don's 1728 scotch ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Cask Conditioning ("Doug Hurst")
  Vienna malt in O'Fest (LJ Vitt)
  Australian brewery (Rex h)
  bottling headspace reply ("elvira toews")
  pellet hops & manifold (EdgeAle)
  Adding for taste... ("Mr. Shane A. Saylor")
  RE: Zinc ("Mr. Shane A. Saylor")
  thermometer calibration ("Phillipa")
  gas hookup (Charles Preston)
  Re: Question: Substitute Vienna for Munich malt? (Jeff Renner)
  ring around the collar ("Joseph Marsh")
  newbie: very slow fermentation (Ed Jones)
   ("brewski")
  Brewing oops ("Todd Hannemann")
  RE: Alternative conical fermentor (Steven)
  RE: mackelson triple stout recipe (Steven)
  Bigbrew ? ("Rick & Ruth Duyck")
  Great Foments in Hystery ("Bret Mayden")
  Nottingham Yeast (Home Brewer)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/17/01!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
* Maltose Falcons Mayfaire Entry Deadline is 3/20/01!
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:24:26 -0500
From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: New brewers questions

I'll take a stab at your questions Nils.

>1) As you boil the hops, do you leave the previous bags of hops in when
you
>add the next hops?  I never saw anywhere in the recipes that it said to
>remove them, & I was pretty sure that you did, but I just wanted to
check.

Yes.  The early hop additions are for bittering and need to boil for the
entire 60 - 90 minutes so the alpha acid (which is not water (or beer)
soluable) will be utilized.  the more volitile oils for taste and aroma
will, however, be destroyed.  This is why we make late boil additions of
hops that we like for taste or aroma.  The answer is yes you leave the
early addition hops in.

>2) Forgetting that I was splitting the Fuggles into 2 separate boiling &
>finishing batches, I didn't buy enough cloth boiling bags.  Instead of
using
>a huge nylon bag for my 1 oz of finishing hops, I tried to reuse the bag
>that I had steeped my specialty grains in.  There ended up not being
enough
>cloth left to tie in a knot after I cut the previous knot off the grain
bag,
>so I used the nylon bag anyway, but would this have been OK to do? 
After
>rinsing the grain out of the bag, I boiled it in some water & let it
soak in
>the Idophore solution I was keeping my utensils clean in.  Is reusing
cloth
>boiling bags an acceptable idea in general?  I know they're pretty
cheap,
>but reducing extra waste is always good.

You know, Nils, it is not written in stone anywhere that you need a bag
for your hops.  Many (if not most) brewers simply toss their hops right
into the kettle.  What happens is that the hops will settle to the bottom
of the kettle with the hot break and cold break and remain in the kettle
when you rack the wort to your fermenter.

>3) The Perles pelletized hops had significant amount of powder in it. 
All
>the Perles bags were like this, but the Fuggles I bought were not.  Does
>this indicate something wrong with the hops, like pellet degradation
over
>time, or low oil content to hold the pellets together?

This could be a matter of rough handling with one batch of pellets.  I
wouldn't worry about the powder because the pellets will break apart in
the kettle anyway.

>4) To cool the wort, I submerged the boiling pot into an ice bath, but
we
>didn't buy enough ice, so it was melted well before the 75 degree
target.  I
>just continued to run cold water into the bath & was finally able to get
the
>wort down to the proper temprature.  But, to add the cooling, I was also
>stiring the wort with a plastic spoon.  Was either having the wort
exposed
>to the air for at least 15 minutes while cooling or stiring a bad
practice?
>I'll probably be looking to get or make an immersion cooler soon, but
until
>then, any suggestions on how to do it better?

It sound to me like you did basically the right thing.  Just a couple of
things to keep in mind:  1) Make sure that the plastic spoon is clean
(free of any organic material), free of scratches (nasties can hide
there) and sanitised.  2) When the wort is hot stir very gently so you
don't splash it around.  Introducing O2 into the wort at this point can
cause Hot Side Aeration (HSA) which can cause off flavors in the finished
beer (search the HBD for HSA, there is a ton of info on it).  3) Keep a
lid on the kettle while you are cooling to keep any potential nasties
from falling into it.  4) I would keep the collong water around the
kettle moving.

>5) Speaking of immersion coolers, any reviews of coolers on the market
or
>good instructions on how to make one myself?

I made one that works well.  I took a 50' coil of soft copper tubing and
wraped it around something that fit into my kettle, tied the coils
together with copper wire and attached hoses on each end for the water
flow.

>6) I'm pretty sure I got this one answered by reading the New Complete
Joy
>of Home Brewing but, is aerating the wort during racking to the carboy
good
>or bad?  Originally, I thought bad, but the book said that aerating at
this
>time is good since it provides extra oxygen for the yeast's resperation
>phase.  I must have been thinking of aeration during racking from
primary to
>secondary fermentation & during bottling.

Once the wort is cooled to pitching temp it is important to aerate it, as
you say, for the yeast to grow a reproduce.  There are many ways to
accomplish this:  shake the carboy, aquarium pump with aeration stone,
pure O2, etc.  Again you will find gobbs of info on the HBD if you search
for Aeration or the like.

>7) If I read the hydrometer correctly, my starting gravity was 1.093
>(including temprature correction).  From the little I've been able to
find
>this seems very high for a Porter.  The recipe listed an OG of 1.062. 
Other
>than changing the yeast from Wyeast 1084 "Irish Ale" to Coopers Ale
Yeast, I
>kept all the rest of the ingredients the same.  Did I do something wrong
(or
>maybe right) to get such a high gravity?

Wow, that's some porter.  I'm going to defer to someone else to comment
on this one.  However the yeast selection will not influence the original
gravity, only the terminal gravity.

8) This also leads me to my next question.  The book said that the rotten
>egg smell could be caused by an improper fermentation temprature, but
didn't
>say what improper was.  I'm using Cooper's Ale Yeast & my basement has
been
>between 60-64 degrees.  Should I be concerned about this temprature
range?

I think that you are fine with that temp.  Proper fermentation temp,
however, will be based on the individual yeast.  You might be a touch on
the low side for your ale yeast but I would think that an overly high
temp would be more likely to cause the foul odor.

>10) For reasons having to do with a story too long to go through here, I
>curious to find out if anyone has used peat, like used in Scotch
whiskey,
>for brewing?  I know nothing about whiskey distillation, so I have no
idea
>how it's used there to know if it could be translated to beer brewing,
or
>what it's affect would be.

I have never heard of anyone using peat to brew with.  I made a Strong
Scottish Ale several years ago, however, and used peated malt (or peat
smoked malt) to steep in the kettle.  That is probably the translation to
brewing that you are looking for.

>11) I am eager to try lots of different recipes & variations on the same
>recipes, but don't want lots of huge carboys sitting around my basement.
 I
>think I'd rather start with the same basic recipe & make 5 different 1
>gallon batches, changing the ingredients slightly to see their affects,
than
>rather 1 5 gallon batch.  Have people done this before & is it feasable?
>Are there any special considerations for brewing smaller batches like
this?
>I currently have 2 6.5 gal carboys & 1 5 gal.  If I'm going to be
brewing
>smaller batches, should I use the 3 gal carboys instead?

I don't see a problem with scaling the recipe down, but what is the
point?  I've started brewing 10 gallon batches because the 5 gallons
batches go to fast.  If you have only 1 gallon it'll be gone before you
start to drink it.  One of the great things about homebrewing is breing
able to see the changes that age brings.  I brewed two batches last May
that were terrible.  I tryed them in Aug and they were undrinkable.  By
Nov they were drinkable, by Jan they were great and now they are gone. 
The point is that if you like what you brew then 1 gallon will not be
nearly enough, and if you don't like something that you brew-well, time
heals most wounds.

Good luck with your brewing.


Eric Lande
Doylestown, PA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:41:33 -0500 
From: "Lyga, Daniel M." <lygadm at pweh.com>
Subject: RE: O'fest ALE???

BOB Rutkowski <bob--o at excite.com> writes:

<snip>
As I generally like lagered
Octoberfest's this was labeled as an ALE. I forget the darn name on the
bottle, but it was imported by a CO company?
<snip>

I believe Hacker-Pschorr has the "ALE" designation on its Oktoberfest label.
I don't know if it's brewed as an ale or not... it is quite tasty.

Dan Lyga
Harwinton, CT.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:39:35 -0500 
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Mackeson's Triple Stout and Aeration

   Regarding those Mackeson's Triple Stout Recipes on the Cat's Meow...  The
last recipe used a lot of chocolate malt and black patent.  For my personal
tastes, I would avoid putting more than 1/2# or so of those malts.
Certainly not 2# or more!  That much dark malt will produce a harsh taste
not the sweet smooth taste you want.  I remember Mackeson's as being very,
very sweet and seem to remember on OG of 1.057 or so.  Dragon Stout
(Jamaica) is similar tasting but I remember liking it more than Mackeson's.
Another recipe on the Cat's Meow called for 12 oz of lactose!  Isn't that a
lot?  I hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in.  So my advice would be
to limit the chocolate and black malts to maybe 8-10 oz total, keep your
bittering hops to no more than 8-10 HBUs--or use a calculator to keep the
IBUs to something like 30 IBUs or less, and pick an ale yeast that is known
to be a poor attenuator like Wyeast 1084? Irish Ale yeast.  Maybe one of
Danstar's less attenuating yeasts like London--not Nottingham.  If you don't
overhop, and don't over attenuate, and don't overdo the dark malts I think
you can come up with something black and sweet like Mackeson's.

  There have been several emails by newbies concerned about aerating their
wort/beer.  Wort is what you have before the yeast starts to attenuate the
sugars to produce alcohol.   Beer is what you have after you have produced
some alcohol.  It is very good to aerate (add oxygen) to the wort so that
the yeast will be healthy.  You do want to cool that wort before you aerate.
Once the alcohol starts to form you want to avoid aerating (adding oxygen)
because that will tend to produce bad tastes in your beer.  You may not
notice the staling from aerating the beer if you drink it quickly, but it
will have a detrimental affect over time (i.e. months).

John Penn



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:44:41 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Questions from a new brewer

Nils,

You have a lot of questions, which is a good thing.  Let me address them
point by point if I can.

""1) As you boil the hops, do you leave the previous bags of hops in
when you add the next hops?""

It's generally a good idea to leave early addition hops in the pot for
the entire boil.  This ensures full extraction of the bittering oils. 

""2)[SNIP]... I used the nylon bag anyway, but would this have been OK
to do?  Aftern rinsing the grain out of the bag, I boiled it in some
water & let it soak in the Idophore solution I was keeping my utensils
clean in.  Is reusing cloth boiling bags an acceptable idea in general?
""...

There's no need to sanitize anything that will be in the boiling wort.
The heat of the boil will sanitize.  Actually there's no need to use a
bag for the hops either.  You can pour the cooled wort through a
sanatized strainer into your primary fermenter.  Or you can siphon from
the brew pot into your fermenter leaving most of the hops behind.  When
using pellets I usually end up with some in the primary fermenter.  I
don't think it's a problem.  I've re-used the same bags for steeping
grains in extract beers for years.

""3) The Perles pelletized hops had significant amount of powder in it.
[SNIP] Does this indicate something wrong with the hops, like pellet
degradation over time, or low oil content to hold the pellets
together?""

I'm not sure, but would guess that your Perle were either from the
bottom of the barrel or old.  Old hops loose their aroma and bittering
characteristics over time.  Did they come in a non-air permeable bag?
If not look for a new hop supplier.

""4) [SNIP] But, to ... [aid] the cooling, I was also stiring the wort
with a plastic spoon.  Was either having the wort exposed to the air for
at least 15 minutes while cooling or stiring a bad practice?""

Your plastic spoon was sanitized, right?  Anything that comes into
contact with cool or cooling wort should be santatized.  I don't see
much problem with this practice.  It's a good idea to get air into the
cool wort anyway.  Personally, before I had an imersion chiller, I just
put the lid covered pot into a bathtub filled with cold water and ice
and left it for a few hours.  I would highly recommend a chiller of some
kind to minimize the time between boiling and fermentation.  This
reduces the chance of infection.

""5) Speaking of immersion coolers, any reviews of coolers on the market
or
good instructions on how to make one myself?""

I think almost all brew shops sell immersion chillers these days.  I
like the immersion style becuase of it's ease of use. 

""6) [SNIP]... is aerating the wort during racking to the carboy good
or bad?  Originally, I thought bad, but the book said that aerating at
this
time is good since it provides extra oxygen for the yeast's resperation
phase. ...""

You should definately get as much air into the cooled wort as you can.
The yeast need oxygen for the early stages of fermentation.  Try to
avoid aeration at all other times as you can create oxydized flavors in
the beer.

""7) If I read the hydrometer correctly, my starting gravity was 1.093
(including temprature correction). [SNIP] The recipe listed an OG of
1.062.  Other than changing the yeast from Wyeast 1084 "Irish Ale" to
Coopers Ale Yeast, I kept all the rest of the ingredients the same.  Did
I do something wrong (or maybe right) to get such a high gravity?""

Did you take that OG reading from the final 5 gallon volume or from the
concentrated wort in your brew kettle.  The OG reading should be taken
from the full volume.  Speaking of which, was your full volume actually
5 gallons?  If it was less, your gravity would be higher.  The gravity
may also vary by brand of extract used.  Was your extract the same brand
and style as in the recipe?  Also make sure you are taking the reading
at the calibration temperature (usually around 60F) or that you account
for the temperature difference.  The instructions that came with the
hydrometer will tell you how to do this. 

""7) This may have also been answered by the book, but I'm not sure.
About a day after the porter was brewed, I started to notice a very
strong & bad
smell coming from the carboy. [SNIP]... The bad smell finally went away
once
the fermentation slowed down significantly, about 3 days after it was
brewed.""

There are all sorts of fermentation byproducts with strange odors.  I
try not to worry about odors in my beer until fermentation has finished.
If the beer tastes and smells good at that point there's no need to
worry.  If not then you probably had an infection.  Keep it around a few
weeks and see if it becomes tolerable before you toss it.  

""8) This also leads me to my next question.  The book said that the
rotten
egg smell could be caused by an improper fermentation temprature, but
didn't
say what improper was.  I'm using Cooper's Ale Yeast & my basement has
been
between 60-64 degrees.  Should I be concerned about this temprature
range?""

60-64F is at the low end of the range for ale yeast.  You should get a
clean  and crisp beer at that temperature.  Again if, after fermentation
is complete, it tastes good don't worry.

""10) For reasons having to do with a story too long to go through here,
I
curious to find out if anyone has used peat [...] for brewing? [SNIP]""

People have and can use peat in brewing, there is (or was) even a
commercial example.  I never have used it.  Someone else should answer
this question.

""11) [SNIP] ... I'd rather start with the same basic recipe & make 5
different 1 gallon batches, changing the ingredients slightly to see
their affects, than rather 1 5 gallon batch.  Have people done this
before & is it feasable? [...]  If I'm going to be brewing smaller
batches, should I use the 3 gal carboys instead?""

It is a good idea to experiment with different ingredients and
techniques via a split batch.  That way you can see what effect one
variable has on your beer.  One potential problem is that with a one
gallon batch you have a lot less room for error.  In other words, adding
an extra 1/2oz. of hops to 10 gallons of beer is the same as adding an
extra 1/5oz. of hops to a one gallon batch.  If you have 3 gallon
carboys use them.  Otherwise it really shouldn't matter too much.  There
is an increased risk of oxydation in a larger container.  I would
certainly recommend using the smaller container for secondary
fermentation when the beer isn't producing as much CO2.

Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:17:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: New Brewer Nils

Nils has just joined the HBD, and with the raging CC debates (hey, I'm not
complaining--I enjoyed the thread!) I thought a new brewer's questions might
get overlooked.  So here's my two cents:

First of all, Nils, the main advice is:  relax, you're beer is fine.  As to
your questions:

>1) As you boil the hops, do you leave the previous bags of hops in when you
>add the next hops?

Yes.  The recipes assume that, once added, the hops remain in for the rest of
the boil.  For example, if the recipe calls for additions at 60, 15, and 2
minutes (to go), the 60 minute hops stay in for the whole 60 minute boil, the
15 minute addition stays for the final 15 minutes, and the 2 minute addition
stays for the final 2 minutes.  If you removed your bittering hops part way
through, then your beer will be sweeter than intended.  With a porter,
though, this is not a terrible mistake.

>2) [Question about reusing boiling bags]

Yes, this is fine.  Some people, myself included, dispense with boiling bags
altogether, just to prevent some of the fumbling around that you experienced.
After chilling, use your sanitary spoon to whirlpool the wort.  The hops will
collect in the center of the pot and you can siphon from the side.

>3) The Perles pelletized hops had significant amount of powder in it.  All
>the Perles bags were like this, but the Fuggles I bought were not.  Does
>this indicate something wrong with the hops, like pellet degradation over
>time, or low oil content to hold the pellets together?

Nah, they're fine.  Sometimes they just get banged around more.  Once in the
wort, all of the pellets turn into "powder" anyway (mostly very fine pieces,
actually).

>4) [Can I stir while cooling?]

Yes, absolutely, with a sanitized spoon.  You don't want to cover your wort
immediately as it comes off the boil anyway because this can trap
dimethylsulfide, which some people say leads to a cooked corn aroma (I must
be insensitive to it because I have never ever noticed it in any beer).  You
don't worry too much about contamination because a) the wort is still really
hot, and b) the thermal currents are leading up away from the kettle.  As the
wort cools, however, I would recommend covering it in between stirs.  You
don't need to stir constantly, just every few minutes or so after the wort
has cooled somewhat.  In my system, my brew spoon is big enough to protrude
from the pot, so I just leave it in the kettle, and push the cover up to the
spoon.  This leaves a slight gap, but I don't worry about it.

>5) Speaking of immersion coolers, any reviews of coolers on the market or
>good instructions on how to make one myself?

I got one as a gift from Beer, Beer, and More Beer, and it works great.  I
also have a homemade one that works good too.  Immersion chillers are hard
enough to mess up that most any chiller you purchased would be fine.  Sure,
you can tweak performance a little bit, but they'll all do the job just fine.

BTW, I believe that a chiller is one of the first new equipment acquisitions
a new brewer should make.

>6) I'm pretty sure I got this one answered by reading the New Complete Joy
>of Home Brewing but, is aerating the wort during racking to the carboy good
>or bad?

Good.  Your reason is correct.  Aerating when racking from kettle to carboy
helps yeast growth.

>...  I must have been thinking of aeration during racking from primary to
>secondary fermentation & during bottling.

Right.  Aerating at this stage is bad.  The yeast have basically done their
job, so they don't need the oxygen.  Aeration at this point can lead to
oxidation, which can cause cardboard flavors and premature staling.

>7) If I read the hydrometer correctly, my starting gravity was 1.093
>(including temperature correction).  From the little I've been able to find
>this seems very high for a Porter.  The recipe listed an OG of 1.062.  Other
>than changing the yeast from Wyeast 1084 "Irish Ale" to Coopers Ale Yeast, I
>kept all the rest of the ingredients the same.  Did I do something wrong (or
>maybe right) to get such a high gravity?

Yes, this does seem high.  Did you possibly take this gravity reading before
topping up with water to five gallons?  If so, it would read high.  Not
knowing the recipe or your technique, I can't offer specific advice.
Changing the yeast, though, would not have affected the OG.

Our club definition of porter is:  "If it's dark and you call it porter, then
it is porter."  So your gravity would not put you outside of style
guidlines...for the Sultans of Swig, anyway!   :)

>7) This may have also been answered by the book, but I'm not sure.  About a
>day after the porter was brewed, I started to notice a very strong & bad
>smell coming from the carboy.

I don't have specific experience with this yeast, but I've learned to ignore
funky smells coming from the fermenter.  Yeast can throw all kinds of gross
smells while they're fermenting, but they generally go away by the time
fermentation is done.  Funny smells that remain after the brew has fermented
and conditioned, however, may be due to bad ingredients, improper
fermentations, or technique problems.  Different smells have different
causes.

>8) This also leads me to my next question.  The book said that the rotten
>egg smell could be caused by an improper fermentation temperature, but
>didn't
>say what improper was.  I'm using Cooper's Ale Yeast & my basement has been
>between 60-64 degrees.

Again, I don't have experience with this yeast, but this temperature range is
probably ok.  In general, funky smells in the finished beer get worse as
fermentation temperature rises.  This is just a rule of thumb though.

>10) For reasons having to do with a story too long to go through here, I
>curious to find out if anyone has used peat, like used in Scotch whiskey,
>for brewing?

You can buy peated malt for a nice complexity in various beers.  It lends a
smoky background taste.

>11) I am eager to try lots of different recipes & variations on the same
>recipes, but don't want lots of huge carboys sitting around my basement.

Just wait, my friend.

>I think I'd rather start with the same basic recipe & make 5 different 1
>gallon batches, changing the ingredients slightly to see their affects, than
>rather 1 5 gallon batch.  Have people done this before & is it feasible?

Absolutely.


Welcome to the hobby and the digest.

 --frank



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:22:54 -0500
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Specialty grain soaking/rinsing

Since this has come up in the last couple days, I just thought I'd mention
the way that I handle specialty grains.  For my first several brews that I
used specialty grains with I just put the grains in an old sock (clean) and
tossed that into the water until it was about to boil.  Then I moved on to
a grain bag that allowed the grain to spread out more, theoretically
allowing more water to flow amongst the grains, improving extraction.
More recently I've been desiring to rinse the grains after their soak
(I normally do 30 minutes at 150F).  So, the way I did it was thus:

The grains go in the grain bag, which are placed into the pasta insert
for an aluminum multipot (tall and narrow with lots of holes).  The entire
pasta insert is placed into my 32 qt. enameled aluminum lobster pot.
I add water until it just covers the grains, bring it to temp, let the grains
soak.  When I'm done soaking them, I lift the pasta insert (containing
the grains) out of the water and prop it above the pot using 1x4 slats
which are laid across the lobster pot.  Then I slowly pour a gallon or
so of hot water over and through the grains to rinse.

     This is obviously not as good as an actual mash and lauter, but it's
a very inexpensive and easy way to use specialty grains.  Hopefully
my experience can help improve the handling of specialty grains
for some other relative newbies out there!

Nathan

P.S.  I have to side with Steve on the CC thing.  Anecdotal evidence
may support the superiority of CC fermentors, but until there are some
well-controlled experiments to provide data, I'm not gonna put that
much $$$ into a fermenting vessel.
========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, US



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:59:07 -0500
From: "Michael G. Zentner" <zentner at laf.cioe.com>
Subject: copper corrosion by natural gas (not beer related)

I know it's not beer related, but since a couple people
expressed interest, I thought I'd get it from the source.
The following comes from my natural gas company's customer
service:


>                                 While natural gas, in its
> native state, will
> not corrode copper tubing, other constituents may be
> present in the gas
> delivered from the pipeline supplier to Indiana Gas
> Company and ultimately
> to the consumer.  One of these constituents is hydrogren
> sulfide, and the
> use of copper tubing relative to the levels of hydrogen
> sulfide are
> addressed in industry codes and standards.  Both the
> National Fuel Gas Code
> (NFPA54) and the Indiana One- and Two-Family Dwelling Code
> (CABO) state that
> "copper and brass [tubing and fittings (except tin-lined
> copper tubing)]
> shall not be used if the gas contains [more than] an
> average of .3 grains of
> hydrogen sulfide per 100 standard cubic feet of gas."
>
>                                 Indiana Gas Company has
> installed filtering
> systems which are designed to limit the hydrogen sulfide
> content in your
> area to well below the .3 grain standard.
>
>                                 Nonetheless, it is company
> policy that
> service representatives aware of fuel line copper tubing
> inside a premise
> (but unable to identify it as tin-lined copper) should
> place a yellow tag on
> or near the tubing.  A yellow tag is an indication of a
> possible code
> violation, not an immediate safety hazard. To the extent
> that you are aware
> that you have copper tubing in your lines we would
> encourage you to have
> these lines inspected and replaced.

> [edited...]
> Standards Supervisor
> Indiana Gas, A Vectren Company
>

Mike Zentner



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:25:21 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: don's 1728 scotch

Don:

One thing that comes to mind when looking at your posted recipe is that it
will not end up at 8% ABV.  you just don't have enough extract to do that
for a 5 gallon batch.

Mine was about 20+lbs of grain to make a 5 gallon batch. I think you are
probably 3-4 lbs of extract atleast short.

Like I said, I used a serious bunch of starters to get the yeasts going - I
probably did them for a total of 2 weeks before brewing.

Mine was primary fermented for 2 weeks.  Secondaried another 2-3 weeks and
then warm conditioned for about 12 weeks or so before chilling and force
conditioning.

Its one thing for the gravity to be high due to nonconvertables and its
another for it to be high due to poor yeast health which would give sweet
tones. The high alcohol also tends to balance nicely with the high OG.
similar to the way that high hops balance the alcohol in IPAs and
barleywines.

If you were going for a strong scotch ale, I would not work from a smack
pack or even a once scaled up smack pack......

Hope this helps,
Pete czerpak
albany, NY



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:39:29 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Cask Conditioning

I am wondering if there is anyone out there making traditional cask
conditioned ales at home.  It seems like this would be a wonderful
addition to my brewing, not to mention a spectacular ritual at parties.
I wonder whether it's worth the cost of a pin and additional equipment
or if I should be content with my artificially carbonated cornie kegs.
Could I make similarly conditioned ales using a cornie keg on it's side
(with modifications of the dip tubes)?

I guess I'm still reeling from RAF.

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:05:29 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Vienna malt in O'Fest




>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 08:28:29 -0500 (EST)
>From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
>Subject: Question: Substitute Vienna for Munich malt?

>I am getting ready to do an Oktoberfest, and wonder...would the brew
>suffer terribly if I were to substitute Vienna for the more 
>conventional
>Munich malt?  I suppose that I'd need to attend to the color..perhaps 
>a bit of crystal?.... but the taste should be close...or should it?

>I have a huge bag of Vienna...so need to start brewin with it...

> .Darrell


Darrell, I have made oktoberfest with Vienna as the main ingredient.
In fact, I would argue that Vienna malt is probably more likely used in 
the German import OFests.  I am basing this argument on results in beers I made.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:05:01 -0600
From: Rex h <Speleopsycho at earthlink.net>
Subject: Australian brewery

I am looking for a website about a brewery in Australia, that
was recently built using extensive passive solar technology,
including aplication of passive air-conditioning.
This brewery featured towers which circulated air by the 
stack effect, thereby controlling the internal temperature 
of the brewery. very interesting stuff.
Please forgive the barely on topic post, but I 
felt some of you would be familiar with australian 
breweries.   thanks a lot....

Rex Housour.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:21:43 -0600
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: bottling headspace reply

Apologies for taking my time answering Alan's question - Wednesday I was at
brew club meeting, and last night spent quality time with SWMBO to make up
for spending Wed. nite at the brew club meeting.

Anyhow, everything is simple to the person who wrote it, isn't it?  Let me
go into a bit more detail.

My usual practice when bottling in PET plastic is to fill for a 1/2 inch
headspace.  I screw the cap on, then loosen it so that I can squeeze out the
air.  If I get it right, I don't lose much beer because liquids are so much
more viscous than gases.  As soon as I get a couple of drops of beer under
the cap I tighten it.

With a more normal carbonation (say 2-2.5 volumes) it takes about two days
to generate enough CO2 to fill the headspace, then carbonation begins in
earnest.

The result of the experiment is that I get bottles with identical headspace,
except one set has about 5 mL air in each bottle, and the other has nearly
none.

Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:12:15 EST
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: pellet hops & manifold

HBD,

1) My current brew-kettle drain manifold is simply a circle of 3/8" copper 
tubing with slots cut in it. Unfortunately, pellet hops plug it up unless I 
use at least 1oz of leaf hops also. Does anyone out there have a simple 
manifold design that can handle 100% pellet hops? Do I have to go to a false 
bottom?

2) Does any know if replacement plastic caps for the plastic "affordable 
conical" are available? I recently got two from a friend but they came with 
only one cap.

TIA,
Dana 

- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:15:41 -0500
From: "Mr. Shane A. Saylor" <shane.saylor at verizon.net>
Subject: Adding for taste...

There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry
syrup
to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason why
the
syrup can't be added during fermentation? Thanks.
- --
"You can't trample infidels when you're a tortoise. I mean, all you could do
is
give them a meaningful look."  -- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:22:56 -0500
From: "Mr. Shane A. Saylor" <shane.saylor at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Zinc

> The widely quoted article by Geiger (Chair of Brewing Technology at 
> Weihenstephan), et al on yeast minerals has just appeared in an 
> English translation in the latest issue of Brauwelt Int'l.


Is this magazine online? And is there any chance of seeing the article 
online? Or more importantly, what are the chances of Zymurgy getting
publishing rights to the article?


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:56:56 +1100
From: "Phillipa" <backcrk at tpg.com.au>
Subject: thermometer calibration 

Greeings all,

Have been reading the comments about temperature calibrations and have a
suggestion for middle of the range calibrations.
Have a known volume, say a gallon of boiling water and a gallon of water at
freezing point, mix and the temperature should be the mid point. The
container that these waters are mixed in should be close to the terminal
temp to avoid heat loss due to heating the mixing container, so fill the
mixing container before hand with some water close to terminal temp to allow
it to preheat. This of course should be done at sea level with pure water.

This is where metric has it all over imperial.
Boiling is 100 deg C, freezing is 0 deg C and the mid point is 50 deg C,
close to mashing temperature.

Cheers
Phillipa



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 06:26:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Preston <cp1811 at yahoo.com>
Subject: gas hookup

I use propane to heat my house and work shop. Can any
of you tell me how, or if, I can use my 500 gal tank
to fill up 15 gal picnic tanks? Or, can I take off the
regulator and hose from a 15 gal picnic tank and hook
it up the gas line in the work shop so I can boil the
wort on my King cooker? (It now goes from my 15 gal
tank to the King Cooker, or is it Cajun?) What
pressure would I need to set the regulator mounted on
the outside of the shop to have enough going into the
small regulator that hooks up to the cooker? If this
is feasible, and you know this can be done, or you
have done it, send me your name and phone no so I can
call you personally. Charlie


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:46:23 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Question: Substitute Vienna for Munich malt?

Darrell <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu> asks

>I am getting ready to do an Oktoberfest, and wonder...would the brew
>suffer terribly if I were to substitute Vienna for the more conventional
>Munich malt?  I suppose that I'd need to attend to the color..perhaps
>a bit of crystal?.... but the taste should be close...or should it?

I wouldn't recommend trying to use Vienna plus crystal as a 
substitute for Munich - different flavors.  Might work, but not 
necessary here, as the proper malt for Oktoberfest is (drum roll 
please) ... (wait for it) ... VIENNA!

I'd suggest brewing with 95% Vienna and 5% maybe Carapils.  Not too 
much hops.  This style should "shout malt and whisper hops" (Dan 
McConnell).

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:56:04 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: ring around the collar

That was a very timely posting. I was getting set to brew up a Duval clone 
this morning and looking at my starter I found guess what? The dreaded ring 
around the collar.

I probably would have used it anyway but now it's compost. Oh well it's 
another excuss to go to the homebrew shop.

  THANKS,
   Joe


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:04:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at sdl.psych.wright.edu>
Subject: newbie: very slow fermentation

I brewed up an irish ale (partial mash) and pitched the yeast on Feb 19.
My means of aeration is pouring through funnel and vigourous shaking. I
used wyeast 1098 w/o starting the yeast (smacked pack and waited until it
puffed up tight). Fermentation temp is 68-70 degrees.
OG was 1.052. The beer was fermenting vigorously the next day. I racked
to seconday after fermentation slowed. In the seconday,
it has continued to ferment very slowly for another 12 days. It's still
going! Is this a consequence of the type of yeast, poor aeration, weak
yeast due to not starting, wrong temp? Should I expect off flavors?
I'm used to using White Labs so this was my first time with wyeast.
The White Labs yeast I have been using is so active you almost need to
stand back when pitching (ok, I'm exagerating). Is this beer going to
suck (everything else equal)?

Thanks for your collective advice :-)

- -- 
Ed Jones

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am 
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:26:07 -0500
From: "brewski" <brewski at zoomnet.net>
Subject: 

Jason Gorman writes...

"I have used the Danstar products quite a bit over the last few years and I
consistently have problems when I re-hydrate...  Now I  just tear and
dump...  I get activity in the primary in a few hours."

A few months ago a friend of mine make a 10 gal batch and fermented in 2
carboys using Nottingham yeast. He re-hydrated one and just tear and dump
the other. The tear and dump started sooner, much sooner. He has only one of
the kegs set up for serving but when both have been sampled and compaired I
will report the results of this experiment.

Stay tune! Pics at 11,
Mike








Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:14:04 -0500
From: "Todd Hannemann" <mustangcoupe at mediaone.net>
Subject: Brewing oops

I am new to brewing and I think I have made a brewing oops....  I added the
Finning Agent about 1 week early (it says its only for clearing) but will
this make for a bad batch??

Thanks
Todd




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:22:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: RE: Alternative conical fermentor

Hmm where did you find them for so cheap? I cant find their conical unit
lists for $100+ on their website.

Given the need for valves, stand and such stainless looks quite affordable
in the long run. Then again my glass carboy is cheaper still. 

Anyone used the morebeer.com fermentap? 
http://www.morebeer.com/detail.php3?pid=FE550

while it looks ingenious i've questioned its true effectiveness.


Todd Snyder was reported to have said:
>
>With all this talk of SS conical fermentors and associated cost, I'm
>wondering... Has anyone ever used a plastic conical tank for fermenting?
>US Plastics has a couple 15 gallon models made of FDA approved
>polyethylene that look like they might work pretty well. $59 for the
>tank and $47 for the stand seems pretty cheap compared to $800!
>
>Todd Snyder
>Buffalo, NY


 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

    /"\
    \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news
     X
    / \




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:22:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: RE: mackelson triple stout recipe


thanks.. let me know how it turns out. I've been playing with hoegaarden
clones so my primary is all booked up for the next couple of weeks but
once free i'll definatly give it a try also.



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

    /"\
    \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news
     X
    / \






Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:22:21 -0500
From: "Rick & Ruth Duyck" <rnrduyck at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Bigbrew ?

Hi All,
Does anyone have any info on Bigbrew 2001? I like to brew a batch of the
same recipe beforehand so everyone at the party can taste what they are
brewing. Thanks. Rick Duyck Windsor, Ontario Canada.




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:21:41 -0600
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at keytech.com>
Subject: Great Foments in Hystery

I think this post captures the essence of homebrewing.

Bret Mayden
Oklahoma City
brmayden at hotmail.com





Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:51:55 -0500
From: Home Brewer <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: Nottingham Yeast

Pete Czerpak has observed slow lag times recently with Nottingham yeast.

Pete - I brewed a few batches with Nottingham this winter and observed the 
same thing. In fact, after some 30 hours without activity I panicked and 
added a second envelope (I followed normal re-hydration procedures on the 
first pack, while the second pack went in dry). Activity finally started 
some 6 to 8 hours later, and of course the beer turned out fine, but like 
yourself, I anticipated a shorter lag time. My basement is a steady 20C 
(68F) at this time of year, and the expiry on the yeast was 03/2002 (Lot 
1083630)...

FWIW, I re-pitched the primary yeast cake a couple of times and had my 
normal fast starts, so it appears that there may be a viability problem 
with the yeast in the packet. Of course we never know how much the yeast is 
abused before we get it, but I also brewed with Danstar Windsor recently 
(same supplier) and it was explosive, and given past experience with 
Nottingham (and your data point) I'm inclined to blame the yeast. At any 
rate, when I use it again, I'll be making a starter a few days in advance...

Cheers,

Tim
London, Ontario



Return to table of contents

---

HTML-ized on 03/12/01, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96