HOMEBREW Digest #3580 Wed 14 March 2001

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  Re: Munchen Helles recipes (Hubert Hanghofer)
  Just some stuff! ("Gustave Rappold")
  One more new brewer's question ("Paul Campbell")
  Looking for some Hops info. (angela patterson)
  Fridge Woes... GFI balks... Pils... ("Bob Sutton")
  O'fest ALE ("T & S Klepfer")
  Where to go in Albany, Lake Placid, Burlington (ensmingr)
  re: thermometer calibration (Rob B)
  RE: rings and DME ("J. Doug Brown")
  CC fermenters (Colin Kaminski)
  Another "Where to go" Post ("Bruce Wingate")
  RE: HERMS ("Houseman, David L")
  re: adding for taste ("Houseman, David L")
  Brew Your Own and Jim Bermingham (david.persenaire)
  CIPing your zwickel ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  pressure brewing (Jim Adwell)
  Re: Fermentap ("Vernon, Mark")
  re: ring around the collar ("Joseph Marsh")
  starters (Marc Sedam)
  calibrations, rings, cylindroconicals ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:White Labs Saison (Brewboy1)
  color matching problems ("S. SNYDER")
  Super V All-Copper CF Chiller (Part I) (William & Kazuko Macher)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:00:21 +0100 From: Hubert Hanghofer <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: Re: Munchen Helles recipes Hi all, "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> asked in HBD#3577: > Subject: Munchen Helles recipes > > I was planning to make a Munchen Helles using the yeast cake from my Budvar > (currently lagering in a carboy). I was planning to use 100% pils (pauls) > for the grain bill but was open to options. I'm planning 18-23 IBU with a > lot of late hop additions for aroma. Anybody have any suggestions? You are on target with the grain-bill and the IBU's. But in my experience there is not much hop character (flavor, aroma) in a Helles. Sure - being a homebrewer you have the freedom of brewing to your own preferences - but if you want to brew to style, I would only make a single hop addition just after hot break formation. It's a good idea however to use varieties with aroma quality. Many brewers use Perle for bittering, but Hallertauer Tradition or even Spalt Select may be more "up to date". Other characteristics, that may be considered as typical for a Helles: OG 11-12P high apparent attenuation: 80-87% very pale, 6-11 EBC no caramel character smooth, soft, malty flavor in short: THE Bavarian session beer. Brewing: Water: When brewing pale, highly attenuated lagers, we need to pay attention to alkalinity and mash-pH. Bavarian water is high in carbonates but breweries either remove them by some sort of water treatment and / or compensate alkalinity by adding lactic acid in the form of Sauermalz (acid malt) or Sauergut (wort, fermented at 45C using lactic bacteria .....in CC-fermenters, by the way ;-). I use 4% acid malt in an all pilsener grain bill to compensate for 10dH residual alkalinity (Kolbach RA). You can achieve the same effect using lactic acid to adjust mash pH to 5.2-5.4. If you feel the need to add mineral salts, don't add Sulfate - prefer CaCl2 for Helles. Mashing: Single decoction is the method of choice. I've posted simple schedules in the past. This time let's try an even simpler one that's very authentic. In this variant the main mash is not conducted in the lautertun, but in the kettle. water / grain ratio = 3.4 L / kg. Mash at 61-63C for 45 minutes. Heat to 68C, turn off heat and let the mash rest without stirring for 5 minutes to settle the grain. Now transfer 55% of the thin (top) part into the lautertun. I do this using a 3L-ladle. Bring the remaining 45% of the very thick kettle-mash to a rigorous 10 minutes boil and return to main-mash in the lautertun. Using an insulated lautertun of low thermal mass (mine is based on a Coleman camping-container) you'll hit mashout at 75C+-1C with no problem. If your lautertun is a keg you should be able to apply heat to reach 75C anyway (and don't let the temperature of the thin main-mash fall below 61C during decoction). For exact calculations of own variations / setups: Javascript formulas and a metric brewplanner (Excel and Unix-KDE) that enables system calibration can be found on my webpage (see signature). Some notes and tips: Most people worry too much about destroying enzymes when returning the decoction (most enzymes stay in the thin part) .....simply dump it in (thereby minimizing the time of oxygen contact) and stirr until temperature is constant! Releasing starch from the thick decoction that can't be converted due to lack in enzymes (consider we are in the mashout range) is another common FAIRY TALE. As a matter of fact - any starch that is released during a decoction is very accessible and converted rapidly - within minutes! The iodine reaction as measured with a photometer is even better than with infusion mashing in most cases. Scorching (sp?) of the thick decoction was never a problem for me. I use a stainless, propane fired 50L-keg. When the temperature reaches 70C the grains have a tendency to float to the top, so I even don't need to stirr all the time! Anyway - my lagers using this method are brillantly clear'n malty. Yeast and fermentation: Weihenstephan 34/70 is the typical lager strain that's used all around here but I think the Budvar will do, too. High pitching rates are more essential and thus it's a very good idea of yours to harvest and re-use that yeast cake. I'd consider pitching 0.3%v (300mL/hL wort) *viable* yeast sediment as an absolute minimum. Fermentation temperatur should not exceed 12C. Underpitching, over-oxygenation and higher fermentation temps would promote excessive yeast growth and this wouldn't give us the right flavor profile. I've learned this the hard way. Allzeit gut Sud! Hubert Hanghofer Gatekeeper at the Bavarian border in Salzburg, Austria. "Bier brauen nach eigenem Geschmack" Infos unter www.netbeer.co.at Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:54:25 -0500 From: "Gustave Rappold" <grappold at earthlink.net> Subject: Just some stuff! Hey guys and girls, First, I think Big Brew this year is a Classic American Pilsener. What a great idea to have a batch ready for guests at your party! If you brew it right now, it might be ready for May. Hi Charlie!-have you asked your local propane supplier for advice? I would imagine it would be easier to plumb your burners into your home gas line, but I think there are fittings available to refill a BBQ tank. Doug, have you seen www.brewinbeagle.com ? They specialize in everything you need for real ale. Lastly, welcome to all the newbies out there, don't let the technical arguments scare you off!! We're all here to help, no matter what level you're at. Gus P.S. See my website at http://home.earthlink.net/~grappold - --- Gustave Rappold - --- grappold at earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:09:00 +0800 From: "Paul Campbell" <p.r.campbell at tesco.net> Subject: One more new brewer's question Hello there Nils, I'm sure you may get lots of different answers to this (I'm an HBD behind, so appologies if this is redundant), but here's my slant on it from the "just want to make good beer for me to drink/cook with" camp rather than the "must win a competition" or "have sent for full chemical analysis" brigade! (Apologies to those who may classify themselves as either of the latter and are offended; me, I believe it takes all kinds, and appreciate all perspectives and opinions). Personal opinion mode ON: "There is no difference between Primary and Secondary fermentation, chemically (**). The overriding factor is reaching end of fermentation (EOF) for a particular wort, period. " **However: If you leave ferment-ing/ed wort on the initial yeast/trub bed in the primary (especially in a warm environment) then the yeast *will* start to break down eventually (autolyse) and you end up with "rubber" beer. Most would agree that it is better to get the beer off this initial sediment, but when depends more on the fermentation temperature (and to a degree personal judgement), than anything else. Note that some yeast cultures (healthy ones) ferment so fast that the effect has little time to take effect before you *know* it should be in a keg/bottle. If your yeast starts off knackered (British term meaning weak or puny; thrown in to stimulate multi-cultural debate) then you may end up at this (autolysed) point before you've hit EOF. This is perhaps one reason why some prefer to over-pitch (moderately) rather than risk under-hitting. It should be noted that those who live in a warm climate (plus those who are influenced by brewers that do) seem to always favour a secondary fermentation. If you believe it is redundant [in *your* circumstances] then I would recommend avoiding it, as it introduces additional exposure to contamination. In summary: secondary fermentation is optional, but if you are unable to control the yeast quality/pitch rate and/or the fermentation temperature, then a secondary is (probably) recommended - how's that for vague. Welcome to the HBD!!! When? I'd wait until the initial foaming/airlock vigour has visibly slowed down *significantly* (in cool ambient temperatures, wait until there is only foam floating on top in the centre). Why? Wait longer, increase risk; hurry it and you've defeated the whole purpose. Slinging the question(s) back: (i) Why are you asking? (i.e do you think your beer tastes bad because you've got the balance wrong) (ii) Do you make lagers or ales? (I personally would advise a different, general rule of thumb dependent upon this). oh, and , (iii) For the sake of Jeff Renner's sanity; where are you??? (It *does* make a difference if you live in a desert area rather than the North Pole!). Paul, Glen Esk, Scotland (A far cry from *any* brewing centre; but close to a nice little distillery....). Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:32:28 -0400 From: daniel.angela at ns.sympatico.ca (angela patterson) Subject: Looking for some Hops info. Hello gang. I'm new to the digest and was wondering if anyone could point me to a website that has some info on the uses for different styles of Hops. I like really hoppy bitter beers and have been experimenting with a few different types. So far I have tried Cascades (I really enjoyed the nice coarse texture it gives an ale) Saaz, Hallertau, Fuggles and Nugget. But I really need some info on how and when to use the different types. Daniel Nova Scotia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:44:39 -0500 From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob.Sutton at fluor.com> Subject: Fridge Woes... GFI balks... Pils... Got home today only to find my fridge at 56F... was supposed to be at 50F... seems as though we had a power interrupt that kicked out the GFI... or so I thought... as the clock on the microwave was in reset mode. When I got around to resetting the GFI and plugged the fridge back in... pop... the GFI kicked out... After trying this several times I gave up in disgust... For what it's worth I've been using one of those thermostats that makes and breaks the 110v feed to the fridge... seems to have worked fine over the past week or so... even without the thermostat, the fridge still kills the GFI. Why now... ? So some questions for the FridgeGuy, and the lurking electrical sparks... Is my GFI toast? I plugged a simple timer into the circuit and it ran fine... the GFI circuit remained energized... Is my Fridge toast? Any simple checks, or fixes... Could a power interrupt to the house caused this... (hmmm... maybe that homeowners insurance will pay off and fund the walk in cold room). Overall bad timing I'm 10 days into a 50F primary fermentation... With only a few options... 1. I'll wake up tomorrow and the GFI will accept the fridge... not a likely scenario. 2. I take over half of the wife's fridge and lager for six weeks... that will go over big... 3. I string up an extension cord from the laundry room and run it out to the garage where the fridge sits... and hold my breath as I open the fridge door... standing in a bucket of salt water... I'd guess that 2 or 3 are my best options... 2 will cost me dearly... I can already see my wife's eyes light up thinking about a new fridge for the kitchen as I take over the current one... If I can rescue the Pils I'll be delighted. Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:50:53 -0600 From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas at indian-creek.net> Subject: O'fest ALE Someone posted recently about an Oktoberfest beer purchased in Texas that was labelled "ALE". Well, believe it or not, Texas liquor laws require beers with an alcohol content above a certain point (I forget what) to be labelled either "Malt Liquor" or "Ale". Not beer - figure that one out. Since Malt Liquor has a ....shall we say..... negative connotation, most breweries or importers choose to label their products Ale. Most Texans think of ales as something foreign and mysterious anyway (at least where I live), so calling an O'fest an ale probably doesn't hurt sales. But, the beer in question was of course a lager. Thomas Klepfer A German-English-Irish American, brewing in very rural Southwest Texas No, you're right, not many Oktoberfest ales or lagers consumed around here. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:48:39 -0500 From: Mike <mroesch at bellsouth.net> Subject: >There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry >syrup >to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason why >the syrup can't be added during fermentation? Thanks. My German professor from Berlin turned me on to drinking "Berliner Weisse" an extremely bitter/dry summer wheat beer. The way the Berliners drink it is with a squirt of either raspberry or Lime syrup added to the glass before pouring. Excellent on a Hot summer day! I can't remember the brewery (too many brain cells gone - College was over 20 years ago haha). I think this is what you are referring to... Regards, Mike Roesch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:36:43 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: Where to go in Albany, Lake Placid, Burlington Jeff, from Camp Hill, PA (which is not far from Downingtown, the home of Victory Brewing Company, http://www.victorybeer.com/ , makers of "Hop Devil" and "Golden Monkey") asked about beer places in Albany, Lake Placid, and Burlington. I recommend the following based on personal experience. Albany: C. H. Evans Brewing Company (Best brewpub in Albany. I especially like the Hefe Weizen.): http://evansale.com/ Mahar's (Incredible international selection of beers.): http://www.mahars.com/ Lake Placid: Lake Placid Pub and Brewery (Good, but over-rated since Clinton's recent visit.): http://www.ubuale.com/ Great Adirondack Brewing Company (The stout is tasty, as I recall.): http://www.adirondackbrewing.com/ Burlington: Vermont Pub and Brewery (WOW! I recommend Smoked Porter and Wee heavy): http://www.vermontbrewery.com/ Hope this helps. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:14:14 +1100 From: Rob B <rbyrnes at ozemail.com.au> Subject: re: thermometer calibration At 16:14 13/03/2001, you wrote: >Your suggestion looks very easy, but live is not so easy, that's the reason we >need to survive with Murphy's law. >1 gallon at freezing point + 1 gallon at boiling is not equal to 2 gallon at >50 degree celcius. >The water changes it's volumen at different temperatures, at freezing point >the water has aprox 4% more volume than at room temperature. >So, mixing both will give 1.???? gallons (some one else can find the exact >solution) and the final temperature will be different from 50 degrees celcius. > >Best Regards, > >Mauricio Wagner Which is why one should do this sort of thing by weight (or more accurately - mass) 1kg of 0 deg.C water + 1kg of 100 deg.C water should be closer to 50 deg.C ... although I would consider the difference to be negligable between weight and volume methods Apologies for the metrification, but only know lengths in inches :) Cheers, Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:18:05 -0500 From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown at citynet.net> Subject: RE: rings and DME Hello, Not to insult, but do you boil your DME in some water prior to addition. It could be that your DME is slightly infected but due to the lack of water the bacteria are in stasis. Just my $.34 Doug Brown - -- J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV Software Engineer at ProLogic, Inc. mailto:dougbrown at citynet.net mailto:dbrown at prologic-inc.com http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug http://www.prologic-inc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 05:09:59 -0800 From: Colin Kaminski <colinsk at pacbell.net> Subject: CC fermenters Wow! You guys are taking these things seriously. Cool. I learned to brew in a microbrewery. Yeast handling was part of my training. For me the best part of my CC is yeast selection and repitching. But a big factor is also the accurate temperature control. I don't have room for another refrigerator. I already have one for food and one for 10 cournies. So I needed a compact temperature controlled fermenting option. When I saw the proto-type CC at B3 I knew I had to have one. So I developed the external peltier cooling option and got a part time job with them. I would like to add one consideration which has been over looked in the debate so far. Carboys break. I got lot's of stitches last year when one broke in my hands. When they don't feel round anymore get your hands out of the way! Good beer can be made in any fermeter shape. The secret is in your yeast. I find yeast works much better after the third full batch ferment. I'll reuse it for up to 30 generations if it stays happy and provided I can repitch it every 10 to 14 days (ale). I usually end up replacing it sooner however. When people come into the microbrewery I work in and ask how I am I reply "my yeast is happy and that is all that matters". I find the CCs to be easier to use than the other methods I have tried. Worth the money? Each of us must decide that for ourselves. Cheers, Colin Kaminski Product Development Beer Beer and More Beer Brewer Downtown Joe's - -- "Education is a admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught." -Oscar Wilde Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:38:59 -0500 From: "Bruce Wingate" <bruce_wingate at hotmail.com> Subject: Another "Where to go" Post <<Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:17:46 -0500 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com> Subject: Another "Where to go" Post ... snippage about Vermont/Albany brewpubs .... >> Near Albany, in Troy, there is a very nice brewpub called "Troy Pub and Brewery". Good food and decent beers. The place is kid-friendly too. A little north of Ludlow (Okemo Mountain) is the Black River Brewpub. Great beers. Also in that area is the Cavendish cidery where they make Woodpecker (might be Woodchuck) Cider. They have a tasting room. Burlington had about 5 brewpubs right in the center of town, I don't remember which ones I went to, but they were all very good. Make sure you stop at the Majic Hat Brewery and try their beers. They are all very good and unique, except for Fat Angel which was a big disappointment. In the Mount Snow area, the town has Maple Valley brew pub. I've been there once, when their heat was out. The beers were good, but not remarkable. In Brattleboro, there is McNeil's Brewery. I think they serve food. Their beers are great. Big Nose blonde and Oatmeal stout are very good. While you're in the area, make sure to pick up some six's of Long Trail, Majic Hat, and Otter Creek beers. They don't make it south too often. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:52:08 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: HERMS Joel says: "I recently hooked my immersion chiller up to my recirculation pump and dunked it in my boiler full of water heated to mash target temperature. This allowed me to ramp up from the previous rest temperature without adding any more water to the mash. The drawback was mainly lack of control. The temperature of the wort coming out of recirculation was very sensitive to pump speed. It was very difficult to maintain anything close to steady temperature in the water bath. It worked ... sort of, but I did not have the temperature control I had hoped for. It was a pain." Just as a one-off experiment I did something similar to this. But I place an immersion chiller in the mash (actually a simulated mash) and pumped boiling water though it while stirring. This did work with, as best as I can recall, about 1oF/min for the size of the "mash" I had, probably about 5 gallons, although I don't have any notes from this experiment. My intention was to build a motorized stirrer but never got around to it so never put this into production. Perhaps this would give you better control. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:58:13 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: re: adding for taste Shane Saylor writes: "There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry syrup to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason why the syrup can't be added during fermentation?" The beer, Berliner Weisse, is NOT bitter, in fact it has very low bitterness. However it is made with lactobacillus bacteria which produce a sharp, strong lactic sourness. Think lemonade without sugar to balance the sourness. The Raspberry or Woodruff (not Cherry, although that could work as well) sweet syrups are added at the time of consumption to balance the sourness. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:05:53 -0600 From: david.persenaire at abnamro.com Subject: Brew Your Own and Jim Bermingham Just got my copy of the Brew your own in the mail yesterday. Flipped through it quickly only to see a name on the last page that I see posting quite often here in the digest. Many of us remember Jim's story of an eventful brew day he had a while back. When he posted his day here I printed it and read it to several other brew buddies who cracked up as much as I did. I even shared the story with SWMBO who laughed and could relate when she watches me run back and forth from basement to garage about 40 times on brew day (and that is the usual routine). Jim's story got picked up by the magazine and it is a classic. Now we can all see what Jim looks like cause his picture goes with the story. I don't know who is better lookin though, the horse or Jim. Thanks for the grins, Jim. Us city slicker homebrewers will probably never have a brew day like that and I'm sure you wouldn't wish it on us either. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:13:22 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: CIPing your zwickel Stephen Alexander wrote: >So how do all you micro-CC owners CIP your zwickels ? That is clean your >tanks w/o a lot of lugging. One reason I'm not in love with sankes and >cornies as fermenters is that it is so difficult to see what you are >cleaning. In a CC I believe you could see a lot better, but w/o a manway >you are still limited. Pressure washers anyone ? Don't homebrew-scale CC's have a removable lid that allows full access through the top? I ferment in cornies. Cleaning isn't too bad. The only thing you can't see directly is the top. Use a flashlight and an inspection mirror if you're that concerned. Then play the memory game while you have your brush jammed in the opening because you won't be able to see doodely(<-- spelling? anyone? anyone?). But it is a lot easier to clean than a glass carboy. Can't fit my forearm in that hole! I just use a carboy brush, water, PBW and iodophor on mine. Occasionally I will crack out a plastic scrub pad to attack the krausen ring. I don't really need to as PBW, B-Brite, et. al. would do the job as well. And all of this in my second BR tub. No power wash, no super squirter garden hose nozzle - not yet... The 10 gallon cornies are bit more squat than the 5 gallons so maybe the aspect ratio is closer to that of the trusty old pail. Dunno. Don't really care. I just fill it up with a 20% headspace, stick a lock on it and let 'er rip! Can't say I've ever fermented one on it's side. Don't really think I'd want to, either. Proper starter size *AND* activity eliminates the need to do this, IMHO. >... I'll offer $200 to the HBD fund, eat the relevant pages of ABT... And what would you like to wash those pages down with? A crisp Pilsner or would you prefer a hearty stout? Photocopy the pages, and eat that. Why would you want to ruin a good book?!? (not a challenge, just a joke ;-) >So for $400 how could you best improve YOUR HB quality $400 would last a long time to buy DME for making big starters. Probably would be anyone's best investment;-) Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:44:39 -0500 From: Jim Adwell <jimala2 at ptd.net> Subject: pressure brewing Stephen Alexander mentions in a recent post that fermentation under pressure reduces fusel and ester production in beer. At the risk of being labeled a techo-weenie, I will mention that there is a patent on this process that explains it in more detail. You can view the patent at the USPO web site at: and searching for patent number 4,068,005, or here's a direct link that may or may not work: u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='4,068,005'.WKU.&OS=PN/4,068,005&RS= PN/4,068,005 Briefly, an overpressure of CO2 slows down fermentation, which reduces ester and fusel production, with more or less the same effect as lower fermentation temperatures, thus allowing fermentation at higher temperatures while still retaining the 'lager' character of the resulting beer. The pressures involved are small, from 2-20 psi, well within the range possible in a corny, should anyone care to experiment. I'm not a techo-weenie brewer. Really, I'm not. Really. And I'll brew in a children's wading pool to prove it, if I have to. Cheers, Jim Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:52:03 -0600 From: "Vernon, Mark" <VERNONMARK at phibred.com> Subject: Re: Fermentap I have 3 Fermentaps and use them all the time...they are not that great for harvesting yeast - the slope on the carboy is not steep enough. However with two of them I do closed transfer of beer from the primary to the secondary. Here is how.... 1. Fill your secondary carboy with no-rinse sanitizer (I use starsan..yadayadyada) 2. Push the sanitizer out of your secondary carboy using CO2 - run a hose from your tank to the blowoff, and a hose from the spigot to a bucket. Apply 2-3lbs of pressure open spigot and drain. Close spigot 3. Run a hose from the now sanitized carboy's blowoff into the bucket of sanitizer...move the hoses quickly so you still have a little pressure in the clean carboy...you now have a sanitized and purged carboy. 4. Place your CO2 hose on the blowoff of your fermenter. Apply 2-3lbs pressure. 5. Attach a hose to the fermenter spigot, open and tap off sludge until beer runs fairly clear. (If the spigot is clogged - open and close it a few times .... this has ALWAYS cleared the clog for me) 6. Attach hose from fermenter spigot to secondary spigot - open both...beer flows into secondary pushing CO2 out through blowoff into the bucket of sanitizer (airlock)... Voila....you have transferred from the primary to the secondary with NO chance of oxidation... Safety warning...don't apply more than 5lbs of pressure to the carboy and make sure there is always a way for the gas to get out...spigot open and blowoff in place. I have used this method for going on 3 years with no problems..I have never had to resort to flipping the carboy over to get past a clogged spigot. I even do all this with the carboys setting at the same level if you are worried about too much CO2 pressure - place the primary higher than the secondary and use gravity for most of your push you can then leave the CO2 at 1-2lbs - just enough to replace the outgoing beer with incoming CO2... Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT Sr. Network Engineer - LanTech Pioneer Hi-Bred Int'l vernonmark at phibred.com (515)270-4188 "I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom." - General George S. Patton Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:14:21 -0500 From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com> Subject: re: ring around the collar Somewhat redfaced, I posted that my starter was compost and actually I posted before throwing it out. When I got home(library computer user) I checked the smell & taste and carefully examined the ring. Some of it was yeast paste from swirling and some was dried foam. Taste and smell were normal and MUCH cleaner then a batch from a Duvel bottle I was trying to culture. Long and short of it, I used it. ( 1 qt. starter fed up twice in a 1/2 gal. growler. Thanks anyway. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:20:57 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: starters Pat's spot on when it comes to starters. But I also have the lazy man's technique for it. I have a few 2.5 gallon carboys. When I want to brew up a batch of beer X, I make a 1.5 gallon batch of an experimental beer I'm curious about using the yeast I want to use later for beer X. For example, I wanted to make a Munich Helles. Two weeks before I was ready to brew I raided the closet for some pale malt, a handful of crystal, some chocolate, and took a few ounces of Cascades out of the freezer. I did a single-step infusion for 45 mins, boiled for 30 mins, chilled and pitched directly. Took about 2 hours all told since the volumes were small and cooling happens quickly in the fridge. I fermented this beer out and racked directly into 1L swingtops and primed with PrimeTabs (thanks Domenick!). The experimental beer wound up pretty damn tasty and I had a nice, thick yeast cake to use on the Helles. It's like getting two beers out of one yeast without tossing all of that starter wort. I'd rather drink beer made from a starter than throw it out. The yeast is none the worse for wear either. - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:30:30 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: calibrations, rings, cylindroconicals As for these thermometer calibration threads, I have a suggestion where healthy individuals can place the thermometer to get a pretty accurate 98.6F or 37.5C ;-) Seriously, this is difficult to do with any degree (no pun intended) of accuracy in the home environment. If you are serious about your accuracy & precision, then you should invest a few bucks in a good glass lab grade thermometer (don't spend hundreds or forget to get a case). This can be calibrated against an ASTM or NIST traceable standard for a couple of bucks (read many) as there are companies that do just this. If you're lucky, you might have a friend who works in a lab do it for you against their equipment. Maybe even someone who works with HVAC might have access to a calibrated thermometer. Calibrate your brewing thermometers against this one. Don't use it for brewing. The standard length of time for most calibrations is 1 year. Sometimes I've seen the standards placed on a re-calibration schedule on a quarterly basis or 6 months. I had my fleamarket-purchased lab thermometer done 3 years ago when I had access to a lab. I'll bet it's only off by less than 1 degree, if not still spot on. Damn thing reads in C though... In any case, you'd be more successful attempting to control the Space Shuttle with the computer that you're using to read this digest right now, than you would in properly calibrating a thermometer at home with no traceable standard. The best suggestion i've seen so far is to make all of them accurate to each other. At least this way if you're off by +3 deg, you'll be so consistently and can adjust accordingly in subsequent brews. Jason Gorman wrote of rings: > The thing that >confuses me is that I have it in just about all the batches from the point in >which I started priming with DME. A few of these beers have been stored for >almost two years. None of them have this off flavor or were gushers. If you've got rings in the bottles from contamination you should be able to detect some other sign, such as gushing or off-flavors. Maybe the rings are formed by something else: * a component of the DME you use * no bottle brushing or bleach rings - are the rings there before filling? * a change to your brewing process or ingredients which coincided with change over to DME priming * a change to your cleaning process which coincided with change over to DME priming * leprechauns - Why are you laughing?!? No really... Steve Thomas wrote of cylindroconicals: >Yeast collected at the bottom is not the >best yeast for further ferments. Repeated selection of yeast by >sedimentation will select for the diaacetyl producing resperatory defecient >petite mutants and other traits of low vigor. The best is the actively >reproducing and fermenting yeast of the high kreusen stage of ferment, some >days before sedimentation. I agree with you Steve, the cream of the crop is on the top. One could argue that skimming or blow-off /could/ select for dusty yeasts too, but nothing washing shouldn't be able to handle. I really have to try this some time. I'm too lazy and fiddling with my brew at this crucial point just plain old disturbs me... Why would the petite mutants be in a disproportionatley higher concentration in the sediment vs. in the solution or riding the foam with the other well-behaved yeasts? Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:52:25 EST From: Brewboy1 at aol.com Subject: Re:White Labs Saison In a message dated 3/13/01 7:35:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << << To the collective: I brewed an 8 gallon batch of Saison (OG 1058) 10 days ago using White Labs Saison Yeast stepped up to 800ml. Fermentation at 70F started roughly 6 hours after pitching and was relatively strong for the first 3 days. It has since slowed down, but still fairly active. Anyone else have experience with this yeast? I am not worried, just curious... Cheers, Mark, The results that you are experiencing with the White Labs Saison Yeast are typical. This strain of yeast comes from a very well known Saison Producer and in my experiences( 4 commercial batches and many pilot batches) the yeast acts exactly as you said. All of the batches I have done have been propagated and have experienced the same result. Generally speaking, the yeast works very well down to about 1.024-28(6-7P). At this point, I usually add a second or third yeast to the brew (Belgian Abbey, Trappist or even White Labs California Ale Yeast). The majority of the yeast profile has been developed in the beer by this time. With this method, I am able to get the beer down to 1.012-1.010(3-2.5P) in less than ten days total ferment time. Recently, I brewed a batch of a new Spring Saison with an OG of 1.074. This beer was fermented in this manner with the secondary addition of White Labs California Ale yeast. I even added some of the new Servomyces to see if it would help. Same Results were seen. I will also say that I have had discussions with Garret Oliver and Phil Markowski about this yeast and they have had the same results with the yeast even though one of them uses a different supplier. My advice, add another yeast, be patient... bottle it and forget about it for 2 months. Then enjoy a great beer. Hope this helps, Tomme Arthur Head Brewer Pizza Port Solana Beach Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:55:30 -0500 From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com> Subject: color matching problems Greetings all, I had a quick question about homebrew color. I have noticed on every occasion of brewing, that the resulting brew, no matter what the taste, is darker than the clone I am attempting, except the stouts of course. I do partial grain/extract, and even when I use extra-light DME, the recipe is too dark. Any thoughts related to that? Someone once told me that stirring during the boil adds oxygen and darkens the beer, I don't know that I buy that story. BTW, I have never had carmelization at the bottom of my brew pot, I already thought of that. I think the lowest SRM I have ever had would be from 8-10 units, I could never do a real pale ale. FYI, my well water is rather hard, with calcium crystals forming in the toilet tank, that hard. As always, thanks for the advice. Now back to pouring out my infected Pilsner Urquell :( Scott Snyder Trumbull, CT ssnyder at lbghq.com Rotten Rotti Brewing Company Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:01:07 -0500 From: William & Kazuko Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: Super V All-Copper CF Chiller (Part I) Hi all, I just built a SUPER V counter-flow wort chiller and want to brag a little! Even made up my own trademark! Gee I forgot the [TM]. There goes my chance to become an entrepreneur. And if there is already a SUPER V out there...sorry, never heard of ya! This is an all-copper counter-flow wort chiller that is simple and unique [I think, since it is not coiled like most that we make] and hopefully may be of interest to someone out there. The design uses readily available straight lengths of rigid copper tubing and can be disassembled for cleaning/inspection, if desired, by employing copper unions in the fabrication. Parts cost can be minimal, as off- the-shelf hardware-store items are all that are required. The heart of this chiller is 1/2-inch copper tubing, which is housed within 3/4-inch tubing. My need for a new chiller was driven by the slow throughput of my first chiller, which was made from some 7/16-OD copper tubing I scrounged up. This chiller was about 50-foot of this copper tubing inside a garden hose jacket, wrapped into a cylindrical shape using a corny keg as the form. The thermal performance was excellent, but the best flow rate I could get through the thing was one liter per minute, and that was using a pump. So a 10-gallon batch took about 40 minutes to chill. Aroma hops? Not in my brewery! At least not until now. My new chiller is made from straight rigid-copper tubing. As I mentioned, it employs half-inch ID tubing running within three- quarter inch ID tubing. Easy adaptation of standard copper fittings is the key to putting this thing together so simply. This arrangement gives about 1/16-inch clearance between the two tubes and allows for more than adequate cooling-water flow. Standard copper fittings that are available can be made to slide right over the half-inch tubing by simply removing a small ridge on the inside of the fitting. This is easily done with a Dremel tool, in 15 to 30 seconds, but could be done by hand filing also. If you look at one of the commercially available all-copper CF chillers you will see a tee fitting at each end. Fittings like these are called reducing tees, because one end takes larger tubing than the others. Fittings that take 3/4 inch tubing at one end, and 1/2 inch tubing at the opposite end, and either size out the 90-degree end, are what is needed. If you take one of these fittings, and remove the small ridge from inside the 1/2-inch end, you can slip the 1/2 inch-end over a piece of straight 1/2-inch tubing and position it anywhere you want along the length of that tubing. Then slip 3/4-inch tubing over the half- inch tubing and push it into 3/4-inch end of the fitting. You now have the basis for an all-copper CF Chiller! A copper tube within a copper tube. There is about 1/16-inch clearance between the tubes for cooling water to flow through. After the pieces are cut and fit, you simply solder them together. Do not forget to clean the copper surface and apply adequate flux first though, or you will not get a watertight fit. I can hear your thoughts right now: YEA, OK, BUT using standard tubing lengths this thing is ten feet long! How do I bend this thing? I don't want my inlet and outlet to be twenty feet apart! It is very simple. Make two 10-foot sections and connect them at the far end so that wort flows out one section and back the other. This is easily done with a couple 90-degree ells. At the far end, the inner tubing is exposed in the air for a short distance. This is where the fittings are attached to turn it back the way it came. You turn it half way with one 90-degree fitting and then back the way it came with another. I am going to risk askii art here! Stand back! [ I doubt that this will come across in a manner that makes sense... if not jump to part II] Reducing tee at far-end turn-around point: _________ _ _ _ _ _ _\_________ Half inch copper center exits the reducing _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _______ | tee. Unions installed at this point __ ____/ | | would provide for disassembly/ | | | | inspection/cleaning. I did not bother | | installing any. 3/4 exit for cooling water. Half inch would probably work just as well. The partner end to this one mirrors the illustration. The inlet and outlet ends are similar, but reducing tees with only one 3/4 -inch connection are used for the exit point of the inner wort-carrying tubing. Continued in the second half of this post...:-) Boy do I hate it when a post is too long and is rejected! Bill Macher Pittsburgh, PA USA Return to table of contents
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