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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Cylindroconicals; Gott 10 gal.; neck rings; wheat for malting; whirlfloc (steven thomas)
re: keg conversion, foaming & CC fermenters ("C.D. Pritchard")
Thermometer Accuracy (Mike)
Hmmmm ("The Man From Plaid")
HERMS ("Marc Hawley")
CIPing your zwickel ("Stephen Alexander")
thermometer calibration ("Phillipa")
re: adding for taste ("Mark Tumarkin")
thermometer calibration ("Info")
re: Nottingham Yeast ("Mark Tumarkin")
rings again (JGORMAN)
vienna substitute for munich, peat malt, carafa use ("Czerpak, Pete")
NOW is the time to brew Oktoberfest! (leavitdg)
ring around the collar ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
munchener helles (david.persenaire)
High OG in extract brewing ("Steven Parfitt")
Ring around the color - DON'T Wisk it away! (The Man From Plaid)
Re: Vienna Malt and O'Fest (JDPils)
handles on the cooler (Frank Tutzauer)
Re: Adding for taste ("Doug Hurst")
cheap SS boil pots ("Czerpak, Pete")
Bottling ques. & data pts. ("Joseph Marsh")
RE: Munchen Helles recipes ("John B. Doherty")
White Labs Belgian Saison Yeast (Mark Post)
adding syrups for taste ("Donald D. Lake")
Fermentap (You Bastards)
Another "Where to go" Post ("Jeff Beinhaur")
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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:33:01 -0500 (EST)
From: steven thomas <drstrangebrew at mail.com>
Subject: Cylindroconicals; Gott 10 gal.; neck rings; wheat for malting; whirlfloc
Greetings all--
Cylindroconical fermenters: Breweries use cylindroconicals because they
permit quick removal of sediments (trub, yeast). The need for an otherwise
idle fermenter at a cost of thousands of dollars is eliminated, as is the
time spent pumping hundreds of gallons of beer.
Yeast is collected from the bottom because it needs to be removed and it can
be collected there with no fuss. Yeast collected at the bottom is not the
best yeast for further ferments. Repeated selection of yeast by
sedimentation will select for the diaacetyl producing resperatory defecient
petite mutants and other traits of low vigor. The best is the actively
reproducing and fermenting yeast of the high kreusen stage of ferment, some
days before sedimentation. The easiest way to harvest yeast at the high
kreusen stage is with a blowoff system where the foam hoses directly out of
one tank directlty into the tank ready to ferment, as in a Burton union
system. The foam of high kreusen is much higher in yeast count than the
beer underneath, generating it.
I have experience with the 15 gallon cylindroconical polyethylene tanks sold
by U.S. Plastics. It is not designed for an airtight seal at the lid. This
I bypassed by fabricating a plexiglas lid, fixed in place with electrical
tape. The 60 degree slope is sufficient to collect the yeast toward the
outlet; the real problem is a horizontal shelf in a ring at the base of the
cone, forming a flange to clamp on the outlet piping. The flange stops the
slumping of the sediment. I've considered removing the flange and welding
the piping on directly, but for now it is retired to the barn.
Gott 10 gallon mash tun grist capacity: I guess I run a stiffer grist to
water ratio than most people. I consider 35 pounds of grain a comfortable
amount; I'd put the limit at about 42 pounds. At 42 pounds some of the wort
needs to be run off before the sparge arms will clear the grain.
Neck rings: All the neck rings I've seen are biological in origin; a number
of different bacteria, and some fungi. You see a lot of wildlife in the
pursuit of oud bruins and lambics.
Wheat to malt for a german weisbeer: In addition to good general malting
characteristics you want to select a variety high in the amino acid valine,
the precursor of the 4-vinyl guiacol that gives weisbeer its clove taste.
Whirlfloc gelling: Whirlfloc is a powerful copper fining. It could easily
cause gelatinous globs if overdosed. I have seen it used at Woodstock
Brewing at something like a pint per thousand gallons.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:26:44
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: keg conversion, foaming & CC fermenters
Sorry about the late responses to a some old posts...
Re: the thread on keg conversions:
No one mentioned tapping holes in a keg for making ports. I used 3 of them
on a sankey keg to boiler conversion. One was tapped for 1/4" NPT and the
others for 1/8" NPT. They allow, respectively, 3/8" and 1/4" tubing to
pass completely through. Drilled-out, male NPT x compression couplings
were screwed into tapped holes in a Sankey keg. Drilling them out allows
tubing to pass completely through which simplifies the plumbing. I like
them more than bulkhead or welded fittings but their limitation is that a
1/4" NPT tapped hole is the biggest I'd feel comfortable with
strength-wise. Details are at: http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/boilnew.htm
=========
Axle Make wanted to know how to reduce the foaming during aeration of wort.
Foam Control from HopTech will completely eliminate the foaming while
aerating and later during fermentation also. As near as I can tell, it has
no effect on the head of the finished brew. Amazing stuff.
========
John Peed has a RIMS and wondered about the affect of the 15-20 minutes
it'd take to boost the mash temp. from a protein rest to a saccrification
rest, pondered using an infusion of 180-190 degF water which he noted isn't
recommended for strike or sparge water and posted and wants to know which
is of lessor evil.
If you stir the mash while adding the hot water, you shouldn't have a
problem from the high temperature of the water since the temperature will
be very quickly stabilized at, hopefully, the desired rest temperature.
Dunno if the delay in the boost is "bad", but, if you feel the RIMS boost
time is too slow, add an infusion of hot water. FWIW, I added boiling
water once to a RIMS mash which I'd undershoot the mash-in temp. and which
had a miserable recirc. flow. The brew turned out fine. The hotter the
infusion water, the less the mash is thinned which has been said to be good
for preserving enzymes.
=========
The cylindroconical fermenter thread has been most "interesting" and
definitely inspiring, so, look for info on a fermenter which surpasses even
the BB&MB model on 4/1/01. <g>
c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:03:37 -0500
From: Mike <mroesch at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Thermometer Accuracy
Folks,
Dial thermometers are non-linear devices, they have an "accurate range"
that they are built for, so pay attention to the thermometer manufacturer's
design. If they built them to indicate accurately in the 120 - 150F range,
don't expect them to be accurate outside of that design range. Your best bet
is to use one designed to be accurate in the range of temp that you are
wanting to measure IMHO.
Either that or just don't be so... hmmmm how shall I put this for those
folks out there that had trouble with "potty training", let's see...ah ha!
Uptight! Just have a home brew and "go with the flow".
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:54:33 -0500
From: "The Man From Plaid" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Hmmmm
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
What ever happened to Russell Mast? Remember him? He disappeared from
brewdom around the time the AHA took over the list. Anybody know? Is he
still brewing? What about Kirk Fleming? Haven't seen that name in a long
time. Dave Draper? I know he's still out there, but so quiet. Bob Paolino.
Kit Anderson. Lee Bussy. Keith Royster. Dave Bradley. Wallie Meisner... So
many... So many.
Hey guys: we miss ya. Would be cool if the lost tribes of the HBD could just
check in and say "Hi." Let us old timers know what you're up to these days.
Sigh.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:34:15 -0600
From: "Marc Hawley" <Marc_Hawley at email.msn.com>
Subject: HERMS
Joel King wrote:
"
This concept appeals to me because...
1. Relatively inexpensive HERMS (just one kettle and burner)
2. HERMS not RIMS, therefore no heating element to clean or electronics
subject to electro-magnetic pulse should WWIII erupt during a brewing
session.
3. Lightweight system easily moved (entire brewery no larger than a big gas
grill, toss in pickup truck, now it's an urban assault brewery...)
Has anyone else done this? Or have any comments / suggestions?
"
I recently hooked my immersion chiller up to my recirculation pump and
dunked it in my boiler full of water heated to mash target temperature. This
allowed me to ramp up from the previous rest temperature without adding any
more water to the mash.
The drawback was mainly lack of control. The temperature of the wort coming
out of recirculation was very sensitive to pump speed. It was very difficult
to maintain anything close to steady temperature in the water bath. It
worked ... sort of, but I did not have the temperature control I had hoped
for. It was a pain.
I am going back to an electric water heater element in the recirculation
loop. My current idea is to mount the element in an old two quart
thermos-type container and control the element with an infinite switch of
the type used in electric ranges.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 04:54:23 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: CIPing your zwickel
Jim Busch notes ...
>But, a spund tank [...]
>and can be sampled daily from the Zwickel and
>then CIPed is certainly very nice to have.
So how do all you micro-CC owners CIP your zwickels ? That is clean your
tanks w/o a lot of lugging. One reason I'm not in love with sankes and
cornies as fermenters is that it is so difficult to see what you are
cleaning. In a CC I believe you could see a lot better, but w/o a manway
you are still limited. Pressure washers anyone ?
I do sincerely appreciate the comments and contributed experience Steve
Claussen, Ant Hayes, AJ deLange, George Fix, Jim Busch, JamilZ and others.
I have learned a lot about the actual toys and methods of CCs, and perhaps
more important there has been a vigorous presentation of various POVs. I am
still convinced I would rather have a used UV spectrometer for IBU eval and
a nephlometer for some haze studies or that third fridge I always seem to
lack.
I'm sorry to see all the personality flak introduced to this discussion.
I've never told anyone how they should brew, nor ridiculed CCs owners beyond
some humor in my initial post. I was attempting to foment an intelligent
discussion of the topic by taking a rather decisive POV. To those who
believe that one must experience something before making critical choices,
I'd like to ask them how a stick in the eye feels ? Since they certainly
have chosen to avoid this that implies experience - right ? The people who
think that the brewer's satisfaction or enjoyment is the issue were off in
the weeds arguing the always pointless topic of subjective rankings. My
premise about small CCs versus alternatives re HB quality is amenable to
rational discussion. In the case of AJ, who has access to so much great
lab equipment, the premise may fail; the CC may be his best $400 purchase.
For most of my brewing friends I think the gear necessary to measure IBUs or
CO2 concentration or plate out yeast or assay carbohydrates or differential
media for IDing infections or measure yeast viability or even a beer filter
systems would have more direct impact on HB quality than a CC for no more
money.
The physical factors of pressures (so CO2 solubility, so CO2 impact on yeast
performance) and temperature differential do not exist in anything like the
same magnitudes in small fermenters as in commercial fermenters. The sort
of differences in diacetyl and fermentation time presented (300ppb, 2 days)
are similar to the differences presented in one study using ale yeast under
2 atm of CO2 pressure (like the bottom of a 64ft deep fermenter w/ no
circulation). These studies also show lower fusels and esters under
pressure! I am so convinced that small fermenter geometry (within reason)
makes no difference that I'll offer $200 to the HBD fund, eat the relevant
pages of ABT, and post a report on their flavor if anyone can convincingly
show that cornies fermented vertically versus horizontally (4:1 vs 1:4
aspect ratio) produce dramatically longer ferments or higher diacetyl
levels, all other factors equal.
So for $400 how could you best improve YOUR HB quality ?
-S
p.s. to the guy who thought I was bashing CCs for being "overpriced". Ant
tells me he got his welded up for $180US plus some HB, which I'd find almost
acceptable. Still the BB&MB CCs seem quite fairly priced to me. That the
"fair price" may exceed value is my issue.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:57:18 +1100
From: "Phillipa" <backcrk at tpg.com.au>
Subject: thermometer calibration
G'day all,
re my suggestions for thermometer calibration it has been pointed out to me
that I was not clear about water at freezing point.
This water should be at 32 deg F (freezing point) and should have no ice in
it to be mixed with an equal volume of water to reach a temperature of 50
deg C.
This is because to change a solid into a liquid uses up energy (uses up
heat). This is called the latent heat of phase change and basically means
that to change from a solid to a liquid requires heat. If you have a bucket
of ice and water it will measure the same temperature as the ice melts. If
you heat it with a gas burner the ice will melt quicker but the ice/ water
temp will remain at 0 deg until all the ice is melted. After the ice melts
the temperature wil then start to rise, before then it will remain at 0 deg
c or 32 deg F.
To calibrate for freezing use a mix of ice and water which will give the
freezing point. To calibrate for 50 deg C use a volume of water at freezing
point with no ice in it to mix with water at boiling point.
Cheers Phillipa
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 07:47:18 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: adding for taste
Shane Saylor writes:
"There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry
syrup to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason
why the syrup can't be added during fermentation?"
I believe you are referring to Berliner Weisse. This is a wonderful, light
refreshing wheat beer. The syrups added are Red (raspberry) or Green
(woodruff). They are just flavored sugar syrups to balance the characteristic
lactic sourness of the Weisse. If you added them before fermentation, they
would just be additional fermentables and the sweetness would just turn to
alcohol. Weisse is a very low gravity, low alcohol beer to start with and you
wouldn't want to add the addtl fermentables (though you wouldn't be adding
very much). Mainly, you'd lose the balancing sweetness of the syrup added to
the glass at serving. If you do get the chance to try a Schultheiss or Kindl
(or a good homebrew example), try it first without adding the syrup. It's very
nice - a strong, clean sourness. When I add the syrup, I add only the smallest
amt of syrup anyhow. Your taste may vary.
I really like this style a lot, though it's hard to find German examples. One
of the members of my homebrew club found a source for the imported German
syrups. I had gotten some from him when he ordered them. I don't have the
address, but if anyone is interested, I can get it from him.
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:58:42 -0300
From: "Info" <info at alean.com.ar>
Subject: thermometer calibration
Your suggestion looks very easy, but live is not so easy, that's the reason we
need to survive with Murphy's law.
1 gallon at freezing point + 1 gallon at boiling is not equal to 2 gallon at
50 degree celcius.
The water changes it's volumen at different temperatures, at freezing point
the water has aprox 4% more volume than at room temperature.
So, mixing both will give 1.???? gallons (some one else can find the exact
solution) and the final temperature will be different from 50 degrees celcius.
Best Regards,
Mauricio Wagner
Buenos Aires
Argentina
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:56:56 +1100
From: "Phillipa" <backcrk at tpg.com.au>
Subject: thermometer calibration
Greeings all,
Have been reading the comments about temperature calibrations and have a
suggestion for middle of the range calibrations.
Have a known volume, say a gallon of boiling water and a gallon of water at
freezing point, mix and the temperature should be the mid point. The
container that these waters are mixed in should be close to the terminal
temp to avoid heat loss due to heating the mixing container, so fill the
mixing container before hand with some water close to terminal temp to allow
it to preheat. This of course should be done at sea level with pure water.
This is where metric has it all over imperial.
Boiling is 100 deg C, freezing is 0 deg C and the mid point is 50 deg C,
close to mashing temperature.
Cheers
Phillipa
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:09:01 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Nottingham Yeast
Pete Czerpak noted that he'd had long lag times while using the Danstar
Nottingham yeast. Several other people wrote saying they'd had the same
experience.
Just a contrary data point - I keep packets of Nottingham around so that I
have yeast available if I have the sudden urge or time to do an unplanned brew
and haven't built up a starter. I always add two packets, rehydrated in warm
water for about 15 min. One sachet is supposed to be enough, but I always use
two (no, I don't wear a belt and suspenders). Anyhow, the lag times I've had
seemed to be normal and acceptable.
I have found Nottingham to be a good performer - very attenuative and pretty
clean, though a bit more estery than 1056. It's not the right choice if you're
looking for a lot of yeast character. It can handle high gravity brews very
well. I first tried it after reading about Rob Moline's Big 12 Barleywine.
I've actually used it successfully in a mead or two.
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 07:58:00 -0500
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: rings again
>>>>Sorry Tom & Jason, Glen is exactly correct,, and the last issue of Zymurgy
will confirm that. Pick up a copy, the whole issue is on sanitation,
infection, the causes, and the cures.
One particular chart (sorry I don't have it in front of me), the ring around
the collar symptom was listed as a definite infection along with the exact
bacteria that causes it and if I remember correctly explains the flavor of
this type of infection. This issue also has various articles on good
sanitation techniques that are not overly complicated.>>>>
I understand the whole sanitation thing and have read up on most of the modern
practice. I have also had infections causing ring around the neck of the
bottle on two of my early batches. I know what it tastes like and on both
occasions they were heavy foamers after about 6 months. The thing that
confuses me is that I have it in just about all the batches from the point in
which I started priming with DME. A few of these beers have been stored for
almost two years. None of them have this off flavor or were gushers. In
fact, one was a MCAB qualifying Wit and another took first in our club
competition. After this long there should be some adverse effect, shouldn't
there? I'm not arguing my point, I'm just trying to straighten this out.
Jason Gorman
River Dog Brewery
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:13:45 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: vienna substitute for munich, peat malt, carafa use
Daryl from Plattsburgh asks about vienna usage for octobrefests. I have not
brewed an octobrefest before using either but I have brewed a few mean IPAs
with 1/2 pale and 1/2 munich malts. On one batch I replaced 1/2 the munich
with half vienna and easily enjoyed the brew just as much. The IPA might
have been more balanced too although I keep meaning to repeat this use of
vienna. I think vienna tends to give a more bready/toasted taste in
addition to the malty taste as well. good luck and report back.
I think Nils asked about peated malt use. I used 2 weight% peat smoked malt
in a strong scotch ale and it was enough to add some interesting smoke
complexity to the brew. Not at all enough to be overbearing in a high
alcohol brew with tons of malt flavoring, but enough to exist in the
background and the aroma. I would do this again on another batch of the
same type. I did also try same grain in a smoked porter from the fall and
didnt like it as much. the porter did have too much dark grains which may
have contributed to my dislike of the beer. I also feel that the smoke
faded with the porter more than with the scotch. perhaps it has to do with
the long time aging of the scotch and the relative short aging of the
porter. For example, the porter was probably brewed and keg emptied before
the time that I even took the first carbonated tastes of the scotch. best
advice, if you use peat smoked malt, do NOT use too much or you'll have to
age your batch forever so it doesn't taste like a peat bog - no experience
if that for me though.
I just ordered up 5 lbs each of carafa I, II, and III and plan of using them
in a variety of batches in the near future as replacement for chocolate and
blackpatent in a brown ale and perhaps a porter as well to find if I prefer
this taste to that of chocolate malt/blackpatent in these style. we shall
see. Hope to have enough left to try a weizen bock also before the spring
kicks in too much.
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:34:36 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: NOW is the time to brew Oktoberfest!
Just a reminder...NOW is the time to be brewing for the Oktobefest!
Thanks to a bunch of homebrewers here (Randy, Jeff, Greg, Paddock
Wood {Stephen}, Richard, Lee, and others) I received some very
good advice...and brewed my first for this season...all grain Oktoberfest,
...lots of good Vienna Malt, a little Caravienne...and I even
tried a single Decoction. All went well...I used a slurry from
a previous batch of German Lager...and this morning it was bubling away
wildly!
I think I will do a similar batch...in a week or so,...but with
the WhiteLabs Oktoberfest yeast...just to see what the difference is...
I am frankly not sure as to wheter to call it an Oktoberfest...of a
Vienna Lager...I guess that I need to study the style guidelines better...
Thanks again to those who rendered advice...and thanks to the sponsors
as well as the janitors of this forum...so essential to my continued brewing!
.Darrell
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:49:10 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: ring around the collar
Joseph Marsh wrote of ring around the collar:
>That was a very timely posting. I was getting set to brew up a Duval clone
>this morning and looking at my starter I found guess what? The dreaded ring
>around the collar.
>I probably would have used it anyway but now it's compost. Oh well it's
>another excuss to go to the homebrew shop.
Joe, did your stater smell or taste bad? Just curious as to why you threw
it out. A "ring around the collar" is expected for a yeast starter (but
only after you add the yeast ;-). Starters will have a krausen and will
leave the ring of crud usually above the liquid line. I do not expect this
behavior in a bottle of beer however, because the amount of fermentables
added during priming is low and the yeast activity is not high.
Hope your brew goes well.
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:38:08 -0600
From: david.persenaire at abnamro.com
Subject: munchener helles
Jay Wirsig posts about making a helles
Easy on the late hop additions. The main character profile of that brew is
maltiness with hops strictly for balance. The maltiness should come from
decoctions. I hope you're planning to do at least one decoction. 100%
pils malt is perfect for style also. I made a helles last year that I
thought came real close to the Augustiner I quaffed in Munich that I had
while at the Fruhlingsfest in 1999. My hop additions were 1 oz. of
hallertau at 60 minutes and 1 oz at 30 minutes for a five gallon batch. My
original gravity was 1.046 and I used all pils malt. Go for it and it
should be done lagering just in time for summer quaffing.
Dave Persenaire
Tinley Park, Illinois
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:56:38 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: High OG in extract brewing
There have been several posts of late from extract brewers about getting
high OG (Original Specific Gravity).
I had this same problem on an IPA back in January, and found the problem to
be stratification of the wort when adding cold water to a partial wort boil.
When doing extract brewing , it is common to boil only part of the needed
water in the boil wort, cool it, and add the remainder in cold water before
pitching yeast. This allows the use of a smaller boiling pot.
When conditions are right, the two liqids do not mix well, and may result in
two different density liquids in the same fermenter.
Stir the contents of your fermenter (using a sanatized spoon), and recheck
your specific gravity.
If you have followed a recipe, and your OG is significantly greater than
reported for the recipe, your wort is probably not mixed evenly.
Steven
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:03:40 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Ring around the color - DON'T Wisk it away!
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Joseph Marsh wrote of ring around the collar:
> That was a very timely posting. I was getting set to brew up a Duval
> clone this morning and looking at my starter I found guess what? The
> dreaded ring around the collar. I probably would have used it anyway
> but now it's compost. Oh well it's another excuss to go to the
> homebrew shop.
STOP!!! Rings around the neck of starters are typical. In fact, if you
ever step to HUGE starters in a HUGE ehrlenmeyer (did I spell that
right?) as I do, you can mark your progress by the ladder of rings on the
flask wall.
For first timer, the typcial batch addage of "does it taste or smell bad"
is a bit misleading, too. Due to the higher concentration of yeast cells
to wort, I have yet to encounter a starter that smells or tastes anything
like the target beer. Sooooo, my recommndation is as follows: decant some
of the spent wort when stepping up. Smell this. It will smell nasty, but
do you detect aromas of vinegar? Lactic acid? Butyric acid (vomit)? DOos
it smell much like a septic tank? No? You're OK for the next step. Taste
it. Do you detect any acidity? No? Your starter is heep-big okey-dokey!
As you make and assess more and more starters, you'll begin to recognize
just what the concentrated metabollic stew of a starter will smell, taste
and look like. And your fears will subside. If you're not sure, note your
perception on the look, smell, taste of your starter, then continue to
step it up and ferment a batch with it. If the batch is fine, you've just
discovered what your starters will be like in the future. If there is a
problem, then you will have and indication of what may have gone wrong in
your starter if you detected something similar in its asessment. My bet is
your batches will be just fine.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:00:18 EST
From: JDPils at aol.com
Subject: Re: Vienna Malt and O'Fest
<< I am getting ready to do an Oktoberfest, and wonder...would the brew
>suffer terribly if I were to substitute Vienna for the more
>conventional
>Munich malt? I suppose that I'd need to attend to the color..perhaps
>a bit of crystal?.... but the taste should be close...or should it?
>I have a huge bag of Vienna...so need to start brewin with it...
Darrell,
My favorite and best brew I ever made was an Octoberfest with 85% Vienna, 10%
Dark Munich, and 5%CaraMunich. OG = 1.054 - 1.058. About 20 - 30 IBU's of
noble hops with very little (1 ounce per 12 gallons) finish hpops at 20
minutes to the end of boil, depending on your taste, and your favorite lager
yeast(I use 2124 or 2206)
Cheers,
Jim Dunlap
Woodinville, WA
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:23:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: handles on the cooler
Mark in Kalamazoo "thinks" he has a Rubbermaid:
>I _think_ I have a Rubbermaid 10Gal (I haven't bothered to read the
>label in some time.) Any road, it's orange. The single most obvious
>design differentiation that I could point to is that the handles are
>integral to the molded shell.
I don't believe that this will differentiate Rubbermaid/Gott from
Igloo. I worked for Gott in the late 70s and early 80s, and we made
both styles. I bet they still do. In general, we used molded
handles for the round coolers and the swiveling handles for the
rectangular coolers, but we could (and did) switch it up. I don't see
why Igloo would be any different.
>This seemed to me to be more robust than the swiveling
>handles inserted into holes in the shell on the Igloo(?) coolers.
>This could be a factor after several trips lugging saturated grain to
>the compost heap.
I never thought about that, but I don't think it would be a problem
either way. The swivel handles are a pretty strong plastic, and
protrude into the cooler a good inch on either side of the handle, so
I don't think there would be a breakage problem. On the other hand,
the swivel handles jounce around a bit more (because they swivel), and
the molded handles would be more "stable"--but either way I don't
think it's a huge problem.
FWIW, my tun is cylindrical with molded handles.
--frank
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:18:30 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Adding for taste
Shane writes:
"There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or
Cherry syrup to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any
real reason why the syrup can't be added during fermentation?"
I'm not an expert on beer styles, but I wonder if you don't mean sour
instead of bitter. Berliner Weisse has a very refreshing almost citric
tart/sour character. It is traditional to add Raspberry or Woodruff
syrup to it a drinking time for sweetness. If the syrup were added
during fermentation, the yeast would ferment the sugar leaving a
fruitiness with the sourness but no sweetness - which is the point of
adding the syrup.
I recently special ordered some Kindl Berliner Weisse from my local
liquor store (thank you Binny's) since I had never had it before and
quickly became a fan. I am now in search of the syrups.
Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:25:50 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: cheap SS boil pots
http://www.stratfordimports.com/f_outdoor.html
SS boil pots......
Available Sizes:
HD-32SS 32 QT 15 X 13 $45.00
HD-40SS 40 QT 17 x 12.5 $50.00
HD-60SS 60 QT 17 x 19 $78.00
HD-80SS 80 QT 21 x 16 $81.00
HD-100SS 100 QT 21 X 20 $85.00
No comments on the quality of these boil pots but the price seems right. I
may order one just to try it out.
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:34:46 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bottling ques. & data pts.
I've got a Scots Wee Heavy Brewed on 1/5/01 in the third carboy. I'll bottle
it in another month or so (read, when I get around to it). Right now there's
very little yeast on the bottom and I'm wondering what to do come bottling
time? Just prime normally, pitch fresh yeast, both, prime normally and pitch
harvested alcohol tolerant yeast?
OG 1.095 FG 1.020
Any help welcome.
Mash hopping data point: I made an ESB ,that's 10 weeks old now, with 2 ozs.
fuggles in the mash. 2 ozs. cascade and 1 oz. ekg for a 1 hr. boil.
10 lbs grain for a 5 gal. batch. Bitterness is pretty good, hop flavor is
high almost overpowering but there's almost no nose.
Chiller data point: Made some measurements with my chillzilla yesterday.
wort temp in 215 at start
wort temp out varies from 60 to 90 depending on water flow.Carboy temp at
finish was 70.
collected 5.25 gals wort All temps. in degrees F.
used 7.5 gals water
water temps are very approximate: temp in about 60
temp out 170 when wort out was 60
time about 15 mins.
I used the chillzilla in counter flow mode and had a hard time throttling
water flow low enough. A very small tweak of the valve produced large temp
swings. Near the end of the run off I shut off water flow altogether as wort
flow got slow.
Till I get a pump or can get more elevation to get flow up, I'm going back
to parallel flow so I can set the water and not have to watch it so closely.
On the other hand I can put a splitter in my water hose and use a venturi
pump to get my wort flow up. Oh Boy! more gadgets!!!
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:50:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Munchen Helles recipes
>From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> wrote,
>Subject: Munchen Helles recipes
>
>I was planning to make a Munchen Helles using the yeast cake from my Budvar
>(currently lagering in a carboy). I was planning to use 100% pils (pauls)
>for the grain bill but was open to options. I'm planning 18-23 IBU with a
>lot of late hop additions for aroma. Anybody have any suggestions?
>>>Jay
Jay,
One suggestion I have is regarding "a lot of late hop additions for aroma."
Don't add any aroma hops at all if you want to make a true to style Helles. I
made a Helles a few months ago with a single decoction mash. My grain bill was
75% Budvar under-modified Pilsner malt, 20% Weyermann Pilsner Malt, 2.5%
Carapils Malt and 2.5% Light Munich Malt. The rest of my recipe was:
Soft water, added a little CaCl2
Dough in 10# grain with 10 quarts 110F water
Acid Rest at 100F - 15 minutes, infuse and heat to
Protein Rest at 130F - 30 minutes
Pull 1st Decoction thick 1/3 158F - 30 minutes, boil 10 minutes, return
b-Amylase Rest at 145F - 30 minutes, infuse & heat to
a-Amylase rest at 154F - 60 minutes, infuse & heat to
Mash Out at 170 F - 15 minutes
Sparge with 168F water, etc.
Collect 7 gallons, Boil 75 minutes
at t = 15 minutes add 1oz Hallertau Hersbrucker Plug hops 4%AA
at t = 55 minutes add 0.5oz Hallertau Hersbrucker Plug hops 4%AA
at t = 75 minutes, heat off, force chill, aerate.
Yield was 5.5 gallons of 1.055 wort (a little high OG for style, but ok)
Pitch 3 liter starter of WY#2308
Ferment at 48F - 2 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary
Cool slowly to 32F - lager 6 weeks, keg, force carbonate.
My Helles scored over 40 points each time it was entered, which was only twice
- I liked it so much, I drank nearly all of it!
This beer was inspired by my trip to Munich last August. After tasting Helles
in Munich (where even Lowenbrau tasted awesome), I had to make one. One thing
I noticed in Munich was how all the Helles I tried had virtually no hop aroma.
My favorite, Augustiner Helles, has a nice malty nose, with a very understated
hop presence throughout. Its even available bottled in some areas of the US,
and though pricey ($9.50 for a six pack in MA), I can't pass up buying some
when I see it - it seems nearly as good as it was Munich if you get it fresh.
So resist the urge to over-hop this style of beer. I too can be a hop head,
but there's a whole world of low to moderately hopped beers out there which are
phenomenal - Helles and Koelsch being two of my favorites.
Cheers,
-John Doherty
Boston Wort Processors
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:31:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Post <markpost2607 at yahoo.com>
Subject: White Labs Belgian Saison Yeast
To the collective:
I brewed an 8 gallon batch of Saison (OG 1058) 10 days
ago using White Labs Saison Yeast stepped up to 800ml.
Fermentation at 70F started roughly 6 hours after
pitching and was relatively strong for the first 3
days. It has since slowed down, but still fairly
active. Anyone else have experience with this yeast?
I am not worried, just curious...
Cheers,
Mark
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:09:05 -0500
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: adding syrups for taste
Shane Saylor wrote:
>There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or
Cherry
>syrup to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real
reason why
>the syrup can't be added during fermentation? Thanks.
The only beer I am aware of that the Germans traditionally add syrup to
is Berlinerweisse. It is a light, sour, lightly-hopped, wheat beer and
is certainly not "bitter" (as in with hops). Traditionally the
Berliners sweetened their tart beer at the table with raspberry
(Hiembeer) syrup or woodruff (Waldmeister) syrup. Cherry syrup could be
used as well.
First, to add the syrup during fermentation would be in violation of the
traditional German purity laws. More importantly, if syrup is added
during fermentation, the sugar in the syrup would ferment out and not
increase the sweetness of the finished beer. Much of the added flavor
would probably be scrubbed out during the process. Lastly, since the
consumer controls the quantity of the added syrup at the table, it can
be fine tuned to his or her own taste.
Personally, I prefer my berlinerweisse naked, without the addition of
any sweeteners. My wife, however, prefers it sweetened up to the point
where it almost tastes like a wine cooler.
Don Lake
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:10:54 -0800 (PST)
From: You Bastards <dude_kennysdead at yahoo.com>
Subject: Fermentap
I bought one of these great contraptions from
morebeer.com, and finally decided to use it on a 4 gal
IPA, in a 5gal carboy. I also bought the ss racking
cane specifically for the 5 gal carboy.
Hooked it up, flipped the carboy over, and everything
was fermenting great. Then, when i went to drop out
the yeast/trub from the bottom, the spout was plugged.
I dont know if it was already plugged before I used
it, I assumed, since it was new, etc that it was
clean. I did sanitize in starsan solution, but didn't
test the flow from the spigot.
Anyway - long story short, wound up having to flip
carboy upright, let yeast settle to other side of
carboy, and remove fermentap/rack as usual.
Upon inspection, the spout was clogged with some
really nasty looking gunk. I dont know if i'll try
and use it again, seems like a great idea, but with
what a PITA it was when it clogged... i just dunno.
hope that helps!
brent
electric pig brewery
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:17:46 -0500
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com>
Subject: Another "Where to go" Post
My wife and I are heading towards the Adirondacks and then into northeastern
Vermont and eventually towards southern Vermont on a ski vacation. I was
curious if anyone knows of must stop brewpubs. We do have a three year old
daughter so hopefully the places would be somewhat child friendly.
Our tentative schedule is to be in the Albany area by Friday evening then on
to Lake Placid for Sat. and Sun.. Monday is a travel day through the Lake
Champlain area (Burlington?) and eventually ending up in Burke, Vermont (the
North East Kingdom) at a friends house. The next several days will consist
of traveling to different ski areas that are an hour to an hour and a half
from our friends. Then the following weekend (Mar. 24th and 25th) has us in
the Stratton/Mt. Snow area before finally heading home.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.....
Thanks,
Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA
Home of the Yellow Breeches Brewery
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