---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  one of Jay's Q's ("elvira toews")
  Kiss/Water/SG/pH ("A. J.")
   ("plotek")
  re The Missing Crowd From Down Under ("Phil & Jill Yates") (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  RE: don't do this - cracked carboys ("Jamie Smith")
  RE: misc beer thoughts ("Cuchulain Libby")
  Lighter (colored) brew (Steven)
  NC Brewshop (Dave Burley)
  Brewing Faux Pas ("Jamie Smith")
  apartment brewing ("elvira toews")
  Brew Pubs Near MIT/Cambridge ("Hill, Steve")
  Removing Avery Lables ("Pete Calinski")
  RE: Brewing Faux Pas ("Steven Parfitt")
  mulch temps ("Dave Sapsis")
  re: mail order vs. local and shipping costs (Rick Magnan)
  RE: keg sealing problems (Paul Shick)
  RE: trub removal in keg/kettle (Paul Shick)
  Water to grain ratio ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: mash thickness in RIMS (Paul Shick)
  rye-  malted and unmalted ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  keg lube leaking o-rings ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: Aluminum Fermenter (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Keg Lube (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  alex's american ale, wilf & UK brewers, Todds hot apartment ("Czerpak, Pete")
  RE: Keg Lube (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Flatulence and Pitching Yeast (Richard Foote)
  More New Brewer questions ("Tom Williams")
   (Kelly)
  buckwheat ale (CMEBREW)
  DEA Challenge ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Soda Kegs ("Nachman, James")
  Oakey and brewing to styles ("Don Van Valkenburg")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:00:04 -0600
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: one of Jay's Q's

Jay writes:

===================
1) Water - my water supply is PH 8, Alkalinity 89 ppm, Ca 36 ppm, Mg 8.2
ppm, Chloride 21.7 ppm, sulphate 30.4 ppm.  My practise to date for lagers
has been to add 0.5 grams/gallon calcium chloride to increase calcium by an
additional 36 ppm, (chloride also goes up by 64 ppm) , the CaCl addition is
followed by an addition of citric acid to reduce the PH to 6.0 (measured
using an aquarium kit).  I do these additions for all of my brewing water.
a) Should I be treating all of my water this way?  or should I just add
CaCl  to the mash water only while also acidifying the sparge water?
b) The citric acid is suggested in Noonan's Lager book - Is there a
different taste than using lactic acid?
==================

Looks a lot like Winnipeg water.  Calcium chloride is good, but lowering
your pH to 6.0 might be too much.  Determine how much acid it takes to
adjust the *mash* to 5.2-5.6, and add that amount to your strike water in
future batches.  I calculated the addition to the sparge water to match the
alkalinity (at pH 7), and checking with pH strips confirms it.

Citric acid has a pretty distinct flavour.  Noonan might have suggested it,
but I doubt that he recommended it.  With the chloride level you have with
the CaCl2 addition, lactic acid will give a very smooth rounded flavour.  I
would use phosphoric acid if possible for a cleaner, more neutral
contribution.

Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 16:33:43 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Kiss/Water/SG/pH

For Jim:  If I were you I'd probably suggest that Jack A$$ ki$$ my a$$
and leave it at that. My lawyer might tell me I'm a damn fool but I
suspect that Mr. A$$ has no right to tell you how you may or may not
sign your posts. I have heard of other instances of other A$$****
demanding such things on the net. Most people simply back away but I'm
not the type to do that. By the way, I call my brewery WetNewf and I'm
not worth suing.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For Jay: For most beers you shouldn't need to do anything to your water
for pH adjustment. Your residual alkalinity is about 60 which is a tad
high but a little colored malt should easily overcome that. Addition of
the amount of CaCl2 you mentioned gets RA down to 33 which is low enough
that nothing else need be done in most cases. If you want lower pH than
you acheive in the mash tun now then add acid in the form of malt acid
rather than organic or mineral acid. Organic acids all have definite and
different flavor components which, while not necessarily unpleasant, may
not be what you want. Mineral acids are actually more flavor neutraln
with the exception of sulfuric which effects hops perception
appreciably. Mineral acids are difficult for most to obtain in food
grade and are also potentially dangerous for the inexperienced brewer,
his pets and children.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Dave B made the comment that SG is an imperfect measure of sugar content
and indeed it is but it is surprising how good it is. Some experiments
show that it doesn't much matter which sugar it is (sucrose, maltose,
glucose or fructose), the specific gravities come out darn close to what
the strength of the solution says they should be even for dextrine!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For Brian: There is debate about the ideal mash pH range. 5.2 - 5.5 (or
as high as 5.7 in some sources especially where decoctions are expected
to lower it somewhat) seems to be what most people think is good. It is
impossible to answer the room temp/mash temp question. There has been
lots and lots of debate on this subject. What you must hope is that
where a writer reports a mash pH he will tell you what the temperature
was but most don't do this. For what it is worth in the commercial
literature you can probably count on the wort temperature being
laboratory temperature because the wort is almost always transported to
the laboratory for measurement. The differences between mash and lab
temperature depend on several factors but tend to be 0.2 pH or less (in
my experience). When you use an ATC meter to measure at mash temperature
it reports the pH at mash temperature and that pH is lower than what the
pH would be at room temperaure because the acids give up their hydrogen
ions more freely at higher temperature. The meter's compensation circuit
does not adjust for this effect. Rather it corrects for the fact that
the meter electode responds differently to a given level of pH according
to the temperature of the sample.

A.J.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 05:23:50 +1000
From: "plotek" <plotek at optushome.com.au>
Subject: 

Bill wrote
>This thread is interesting, but what I want to know is; if I fart while
pitching my yeast will I infect my beer?


Astounding that the seppo attention to
detail and minutiae would finally gravitate
to this, which we austalians know so well.

Should you ever pull your head into
an studious pose whilst removing your
white yfronts you may notice its pre wash
condition (before drudge, scrubber or
wife- name as you will gets to do her own
examination).  Normally they are a nice
"white" unless you leave skiddies. (skiddies
will be a whole new thread when your american
collective conciousness gets around to it)

Should you examine it under a microscope
or swab and plate the burn point (which
im sure a lot of you actually do) you will actually
note that there are bugs from the bottom there
as well as some ejecta.  This ejecta has actually
appeared during the process we now call
farting.

Now Bill, consider this- its not when you
fart at pitching but how you fart. If you took
great pains to point said bottom into your
fermenter and had had the presence of
mind to remove your filtering chequered
bermudas and Y fronts (which all americans
wear) and farted- you may well be on the way
to producing something which has a fine
fruity, acetic and lactic finish.  the sort of
thing we call a belgian when some curry
has been thrown into it.

Which brings up two points: 1) the belgians
must have really juicy farts to produce duvel
chimay etc etc and 2) the pleasure is really
going through other peoples knickers and
deducing what farting expertise they really
 have - I am continually amased at the side
blower in the ladies section of our laundry
basket

yours in taste and culture

MudGuts





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:53:17 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM>
Subject: re The Missing Crowd From Down Under ("Phil & Jill Yates")

Well usually I would send off a Missile, but today I must hold back
today.

In a reflective tone, Phil wrote;

I didn't disagree with the creation of an Aussie HBD, but I predicted it
would fragment our electronic Homebrewing community. Sadly it has done just
that!

Well on this point I must ask the question here. With the WWW, are we looking
to centralise all information?? The WWW is a wonderful tool for being able
to access information from the world easily. You know I am one of the
originators of the OZ-CB and I would disagree that the OZ-Cb has 
fragmented the electronic brewing world. If we lay claim to the HBD
being the centre of the brewing world then what has OZ-Cb done differently to
the UK brewing digest, or rec-craft.brewing or Real Beer??

If the HBD satisfied all brewers needs, why did the idea of an
Aussie or UK digest come into being in the fist place. A need was there
and this has been filled. These needs are there for very different reasons.
I think the term "Think Globally Act Locally" is something that should
be considered.

Amazing is the tone of the Oz-Cb. I would like to ask if any of the 
members of the Oz-Cb has recieved direct or had posted hostile mails from
any of its members. Sadly this was an all to regular occurance from some HBD
brethren and was one of my personal drivers for drifting away. Unfortunately 
our freinds over the Pacific are not as congenial, tolerant or open
minded as often thought.

Whilst the Oz-Cb has the reference to Oz, the digest is anything but
Australian and nationalistic. Funnily enough we have picked up a number
of members from a number of countries; one of our regular editors
is a most charming Sth African chap. So unfortunately the sentiment 
is not correct and we are far from nationalistic.

We are lucky enough to have interesting discussion on all levels of brewers
that so far is proving to be relevant and useful to its members. The 
members are yet to travel down the road of being able to recite a treatise
on HSA whilst tied up and 50 meters under water to prove thier brewing
abilities. We just get down to what matters. Communicating and brewing..
and occasionally sending beers to each other that are explosive devices in 
disguise.

So Phil, is it the Oz-Cb that is fragmenting the electronic brewing
world, or is the electronic brewing world that is diversifying and
growing into a more balanced and useful format??

Scotty













Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:21:17 -0400
From: "Jamie Smith" <jxsmith at vac-acc.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: don't do this - cracked carboys

>> getting one of those spiffy stainless steel cylindroconical (or 
>> whatever) fermenters

>Um, wouldn't this do the same thing during brewing what happens to beer
>after being canned? I am, of course, referring to the metalic taste of the 
> drink. Granted, it may not be too prevelant, but its there...

Would it be any worse than kegging the beer in a Corny keg?

Jamie on PEI




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 05:24:02 -0600
From: "Cuchulain Libby" <cuchulain at satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: misc beer thoughts

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:35:58 -0600
From: "Tom Logan" <tdlogan at ksu.edu>
Subject: misc beer thoughts

Time for my annual post.

[...]
I too have noticed the turn over of posters since I first subscribed 6 or 7
years ago.  Are you still out there, or are you in semi-lurk mode as I?
Drop us a note and let us know where your are.  Good to see Dave Burley back
on line.

Going back to lurk mode.

Tom Logan
Long time lurker, seldom poster
========================================================
Tom,
Ironically, I just resubbed after along hiatus. It's been about 5 years
since I prowled these parts. Nice to see some familiar names.
The irritating thing is that I used to brew in a 2 room apartment, quit
(gave away a $250 set up), moved into a house with ample space 2 years ago
and I just got the bug to brew again.
So a quick howdy y'all from San Antonio.

 -Hound
ICQ 83719527



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:58:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: Lighter (colored) brew


I want to lighten up my brew, since everything turns out way darker than I
attempt. After discussing with some other local homebrewers the idea that
the heat source might be part of the "problem" came up. I use extract (DME
& Liquid) on an electric stove. Given the heating element will bring the
bottom of the pot to a quite high temperature and heat + sugar + time =
caramel I am almost certain this is a contributing factor. 

Anyone have any thoughts?
What about using a double boiler to give a softer heat?



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

    /"\
    \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news
     X
    / \




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:54:45 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: NC Brewshop

Brewsters:

Jim Hagy asks if his friend in NC can find a brewshop closer than Charlotte
or Atlanta.  Try Hendersonville, near Asheville. Can't remember the name or
don't know if it is still in business ( check AHA website - Beertown) , but
a walkaround in Hendersonville's beautiful downtown and a few questions and
you will find it. Our MALTsters should know. One of the best ( if not the
best) homebrew club in the Southeast, MALT, is just around the corner from
your buddy. Have him contact  Jay Adams ( Goosepoint at teleplex.net)  or
Brian Cole -  (Bribarcole at AOL.com ) and tell your friend he is lucky to be
living in one of the most beautiful parts of the US and surrounded by
wonderful people.
- ------------------------------------------
Steve Thomas made a 60% rye beer successfully but was surprised by the
different mouth feel.. As he says, the viscosity is very temperature
dependent.  Whenever I make a high rye beer ( which I like a lot), I make
sure to keep the sparge temperature high and I have never had a problem. I
also do a fast sparge of the mash liquid, draining the bed ( I know, I know
 - heresy)  and then slow down to a normal rate with the rest.
 
Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:57:29 -0400
From: "Jamie Smith" <jxsmith at vac-acc.gc.ca>
Subject: Brewing Faux Pas

>4) How removable are the standard office Avery labels from beer bottles?
>Having struggled with removing the metallic & Samuel Adams labels from the
>bottles I used, I don't want to use labels that I'll have to struggle with
>to remove again.

I've started to label just the caps.  Makes identifying them in the cases
very simple - especially if my batches are mixed up in the cases and
once the cap is popped, the label is gone.  Life is good once again...

Jamie on PEI




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:00:06 -0600
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: apartment brewing

I went through my kit-and-glucose days in an apartment with uncontrolled
steam heat.  On moving to 100% extract I started having a lot of trouble
with diacetyl.

A bit of research later, I took what measures I could.  Being careful about
oxidation during transfer to secondary helps, and once the beer starts to
clear I roused it every second day for a week.  Adding a small amount of
fresh wort (about 1/4 lb of extract's worth) on racking can help if you
already have 5 gallons of butterscotch extract to deal with.

Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:41:49 -0500
From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com>
Subject: Brew Pubs Near MIT/Cambridge

Hello all:

I will visiting Cambridge Mass the weekend of April 21 for a wedding.  I was
wondering if there are any cool brew pubs or micro-breweries worth visiting.
Private emails welcome.

Thanks
Steve
steve.hill at apfs.com 


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:43:23 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Removing Avery Lables

Nils asked:

>How removable are the standard office Avery labels from beer bottles?
>Having struggled with removing the metallic & Samuel Adams labels from >the
>bottles I used, I don't want to use labels that I'll have to struggle with
>to remove again.

Interestingly, (when I used to use sticky labels years ago) the Avery were
quite removable.  However, the cheaper (sometimes 1/2 or 1/3 the price)
Office Depot or Max left a lot of residue.

Now I use just plain paper labels and dip them in milk.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North,  5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner.






Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:07:36 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Brewing Faux Pas

Nils ponders the possibility of doing a no-no

>Bottled my Honey Porter & made my Newcastle batch over the weekend.  
> >Thanks for all the incredible help & answers.  A few things I think I 
> >did wrong that I wanted to check on:
>1) To prepare the bottling sugar, I dissolved it in some boiling >water, 
>then put the water in the carboy I was going to bottle out of.
 ....
snip

Never, but Never put hot (near boiling) liquid in a glass carboy. they are 
not Pyrex, and may crack.

you may have killed a few million yeast cells, in the first wort to thit the 
hot water/sugar solution, but did no permanite dammage.

snip
 ....

>2) Since I completely forgot about filtering the hops out of my beer >with 
>the Honey Porter, I made sure to buy a funnel with a filter >screen.  But 
>the wort was so thick, it almost immediately clogged the >filer & nothing 
>was draining through.  I finally gave up on the filer >& just racked 
>straight into the carboy.  Since I left the hops in, >will this in affect 
>be dry hopping?  Will it affect the end flavor or >aroma of the beer?
 .....
Snip

the scurge of peletized hops. They are a bitch to get out of the wort. Try 
using a large "tea-strainer" as a pre-filter to the filter-funnel. the 
strainer is courser and will work a little better. Or better yet, use the 
"tea-Strainer' to ilter the hops out of th wort when transfering to the 
fermenter. I stir the wort in a circular pattern (CCW) to get it going, and 
plunge the strainer in to catch as much hops as I can. I did this to 
eliminate about 90% of the hops when I used pellatized hops.

Don't sweat the hops in the fermenter, it will settle with the trub and you 
can syphon off when you rack to secondary fermenter,leaving the hops behind.

Not the same as Dry Hopping. The hops left in your carboy has had the 
goodies boiled out already. No flavor components left most likely.

Cold break will percipitate out if you chill fast enough (never saw one for 
my first 15 years of brewing, till I got a good Counter Flow Chiller). It 
will drop out into the trub and like the hops remnants, you can rack off it 
into secondary.

>3) I know I may have asked this before, but I'm kind of concerned >about 
>it. In both batches I've made, I've filled the airlock with >vodka.  But 
>after a few hours, the vodka gets sucked down to the level >of the airholes 
>in the floating airlock cap.  I keep filling the lock >back up, but within 
>a few seconds, most of the vodka will be sucked >back down again.  I'd 
>assume this is because the wort has cooled down
Snip ...

Yup. Cooling word does this. Try a good three piece airlock. They hold 
liquid better.


>4) How removable are the standard office Avery labels from beer >bottles?
Snip......

Just bought some and havn't tried them. Hopefully, not too dificult.
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, under construction.
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=241124&a=1791925

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:09:44 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: mulch temps

My good friend residing at the center of the homebrew universe questioned:

My Cascade hops grow like weeds.  I never fertilize them beyond spent
grains during the winter (Dave Sapsis years ago said that fresh
(uncomposted) spent grains are too "hot" and will, burn the hops -
still true, Dave?).

Well, damn, like most things, it depends.  Spent grains, despite what many
people think, actually have a fair amount of Nitrogen in them.  Depending on
how much break gets left in the tun (what do you think you are vorlaufing
for?) there are proteins, hemicelluloses, and a bit of lignin in the husk
and cell walls.  I am pretty sure there is also residual carbs no matter
what you do -- hence real yield never quite matches potential.

If you create an ideal composting environment -- high ambient air temp, good
moisture, good oxygen supply, good C:N ratios, good particle size
distribution, etc.) compost temps can exceed 70C (159F) -- plenty enough to
burn (kill) plant tissues.  If you are just tossing cold spent grain onto
the mound in  a relatively thin layer (maybe less than a four inches?) this
is no ideal compost environment, and  probably presents no problem.  The
organic material will certainly decompose and in the course of that provide
nutrients to the root zone.  Typical mulches are largely composted or (like
straw which is often used) has so little N mulch serves as a thermal
protector to cold (during winter), aids in weed control, and assists in
moisture retention during the hot times.  I would recommend against piling
spent grain loosely on the hill, but maybe if the mulch compacts
sufficiently and retards the decomposition *rate*, that might even be ok.

I don't mulch spents because I got too much bloody spents coming out of by
brewery -- the volume would soon be piling up, stinking, and making a
general mess. I prefer to add the spents to my rapid composting hills mixed
with other organics from kitchen and yard (turned regularly, hence rapid).
I do, however, make a habit of mulching the hop mounds with my spent hops.
That way, the mound has a nice  beginning-end, life-death, yin-yang groove
going on.  Least that the way I paint it.

- --dave, sacramento




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:43:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu>
Subject: re: mail order vs. local and shipping costs

I know my response is a week behind but back in HBD 3585, Stephen Ross 
of "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" made the case for supporting your 
local homebrew shop.  An excerpt:
>
I wish good supplies were to be had everywhere, but until that time, pick a
shop, local or mail-order and work with them to get what you need. You will
gain the biggest impact in what is available by concentrating your brewing
dollars. Brewers that shop widely for the best deals are not always making
the best decisions for the hobby. If your local shop stocks a malt that you
can get cheaper by $5 a sack by mail, BUY LOCAL.  You'll spend a lot more
than $5 if your local goes under and you need some brewing item.
<

Here in the greater Boston area we are accustomed to paying more for 
various luxuries like housing and water and so it is reasonable for brew
supply shops to have markups that enable them to pay rent and stay in 
business.  But I have always had a hard time with paying $12 for a 3lb bag 
of DME.  By buying a large amount mail order I'm able to save almost 50%
on this price which adds up to a lot more than $5.  I much prefer to buy 
local but I don't want to get gouged either.

That said a few years back a shop (Barley, Malt & Vine?) moved to a location
on my way to/from work.  Talk about luck!  This was working out great.  One 
Saturday morning I went there for some grain for my brew day and they were 
closed - out of business, sadness.  Getting to the other decent stores 
around town is a haul and a pain and do I ever miss having a good shop nearby.
Moral of the story - getting gouged on certain items is bad but losing a good 
supply shop is worse.

Rick in Wellesley, MA


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:01:28 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: keg sealing problems


Hi all,

	Jason Gorman writes of problems keeping the CO_2 in his
kegs at serving pressures, with leaks at the main o-ring.  Jason,
the easiest cure might be to pump the pressure up to 35psi just for
a minute, to set the o-ring and seal it firmly, then vent off the
excess pressure and serve as usual.  Most keggers report no leaks
after trying this.

			Paul Shick
			Cleveland Heights, OH


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:08:05 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: trub removal in keg/kettle


Hi all,

	Craig Agnor asks about how to avoid excess trub in
his fermentor from his converted half-barrel keg kettle. He
wonders about using his pump to recirculate during the time
the immersion chiller cools the wort.

	Craig, this will work very well to clear the break out 
of the wort, using the hops as a filter bed.  It will also speed
the chilling time considerably, since it will avoid cools spots
around the chiller.  You can avoid this much hassle, though, by
just using the hop bed as a filter with a false bottom or EasyMasher
set up, draining by gravity or pump after chilling.  You might get
a touch of break material in the fermentor at the beginning, but the
hop bed will clear things up very quickly.  So your plan will work
(quite well, in fact,) but you can get many of the same benefits
without recirculating.

		Paul Shick
		Cleveland Hts, OH


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:10:25 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Water to grain ratio

I have been all grain brewing for almost a year and I am still not sure
what the optimum quarts of water to pounds of grain ratio should be for
my single infusion mashes.  I assume that a ratio somewhere between 1
and 2 quarts to the pound is appropriate.  I usually try to attain 1.2
or 1.5:1 but I don't understand why.  What difference does a thick or
thin mash make?  What is the optimum ratio?

TIA,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:34:01 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: mash thickness in RIMS



Hi all,

	Martin Brungard writes about the relationship between
mash thickness and set mashes in RIMS set ups, in response to
a question from Jay.  I agree with all of Martin's comments,
especially his remarks about mash thickness related to the body
of the resulting beer and the desirability of relatively thick
mashes.  I wanted to add one note to Martin's ideas:  I've noticed
the tendency for set mashes whenever I get too thin a mash (over
about 1.7 quarts per lb,) in two completely different false bottom
based systems.  This has happened consistently over the years, but
I still can't explain the mechanics of it.  The most recent case was
a 10 gallon batch of Dortmunder, where I accidentally let the ratio 
get up to 1.8 qts per lb (out of habit:  my last few batches had been
1.065+ OGs, and I just heated the "usual" amount of strike water.)
The resulting mash set up persistently, so that recirculation was
a complete pain.  In the end, it was easiest to take all the first
runnings and then batch sparge, to avoid problems pumping to the
kettle.  So, as Martin says, "don't be afraid to thicken the mash."

		Paul Shick
		Cleveland Hts, OH


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:40:06 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: rye-  malted and unmalted

Steven Thomas posted info on a 60% Rye brew. I suspect he used unmalted rye.

Beta-glucans in unmalted rye (and also in unmalted barley) can be converted
by using a VERY lightly kilned malt, that still has beta-glucanase in it.
Stout malt is suitable. It's what Guinness uses with their large percentages
of unmalted barley.

I don't think rye malt has the same problem.  Any thoughts or experiences
with malted rye??


cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:40:50 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: keg lube leaking o-rings


Jason Gorman asks about leaking o-rings and keg lube.

Your supplier is correct, there is a softer ring better suited for the lower
pressures of beer. The original rings can be a little hard. The softer rings
we carry are grey, whereas the originals are black. We've used the originals
with no problems: pressurize to about 20 psi, then bleed off to your lower
pressure. It usually holds.

As for not using keg lube, your supplier was probably worried about
petroleum based lubricants which can damage rubber products.  Keg lube is
food grade silicone gel, and will not harm your o-rings. We highly recommend
it. We carry it, Williams carries it...  you can get it at almost any good
quality shop.


cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:54:31 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Fermenter

"MacNeil, Sandy G." <gmacneil at mtt.ca> writes

>I have  a 50l aluminum pot I would like to use as a fermenter.
>
>With out opening the Alzheimer debate I would like to hear from others who
>have or do ferment in aluminum. My main concern is flavor transfer to the
>wort.

I regularly ferment my ales in a 38 liter aluminum stock pot with a 
valve.  It does double duty as my sparge water heater.  I have never 
had any metallic flavor whatsoever, and they would have been 
noticeable in the very light flavored ales such as cream ale, even if 
they might have escaped notice in stouts.

I cover the top with plastic wrap so I can watch the progress.  I 
usually use top cropping yeast which I typically harvest on the 
fourth day when fermentation has greatly slowed.

I say go for it.  Consider installing a valve for easy transfer.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:33:37 -0500
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: Keg Lube

Jason Gorman writes:

>I was having trouble keeping the large "O" ring on my corney keg from
leaking
>when at low pressures (pouring beer for consumption).  I forgot to turn my
CO2
>off one night and lost almost a full tank's worth of gas.  I was talking
with
>an owner of a  home brew supply shop about keg lube to help seal up my
kegs.
>She said that I must be using incorrect "O" rings because if the correct
ones
>are being used there won't be any leaking.  Also, I should never use keg
lube.
 >I'd like the collective input on keg lube.  Where can I get it?  Does it
have
 >other names?

Keg Lube is what it's called all right.  Most homebrew shops should have it
on the shelf.  I know that you can get it from Williams Brewing on the web.

KEG LUBE A food grade waterproof grease,
fortified with synthetic lubricants, that is ideal for
lubricating all `O' rings on kegging systems.
Makes parts last longer and seal better.
Prevents O rings from sticking to keg lids and
other parts. Excellent for everything from Lid
Sealing O Rings to Mini Keg bungs. 1 oz. Jar

About $4 for the jar that will last your grand-children's lives!  I use it
mostly on the o-rings on the pin-lock connectors on my kegs.  Keeps the
quick disconnects from sticking.  They glide on and off very easily.  I have
not had much luck with it keeping a keg from leaking.  You still have to use
the correct o-rings.

We make the beer we drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, MI




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:55:11 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: alex's american ale, wilf & UK brewers, Todds hot apartment

Alex's mentions his american ale recipe.  Don't know if I would use the rice
but it depends on your interpretation of american ale.  as for making it
red, i had never had much luck with doing this until I used a pretty good
portion of crystal.  I have used up to maybe 20-30% of both 60L and 120L to
give a nice red color.  the taste takes a while to meld especially with the
120L crystal.  but it was a nice deep ruby red brew.  I used tons of hops
(maybe 40 IBU worth of crystal pellets only) and found that it was similar
in taste to Rogue's Red ale out of Oregon.  I think that John maier
advocates the use of high levels of adjuncts in brews that tend to be pretty
outrageously flavorful. If you are going to try to boil longer to only get
the red color, I would suggest boiling down a bit of the first running (like
maybe the first 2 qts boiled down to 1 pint as soon as you run them off).
This in addition to 2% roast barley gave my strong scotch a nice ultra ultra
deep red color. I think it provided a nice caramel taste as well that folks
seem to really appreciate in this style.

Todd Bisell asks about his 70F one bedroom apartment.  I would either try
the aforementioned t-shirt wicking option or get a nice big plastic bin like
college kids put 15 gallon kegs in, fill it with water so that it covers
most of your immersed (and full of beer) carboy, and then add maybe 2 to 3
half gallon jugs of ice water every day to it.  If you put some sort of
insulation on the outside of the bin and over the bin, it will help you
maintain temperature where you want.  change the amount of ice you add or
how often based on the temperature you want.    I would do a test run with a
water filled carboy for maybe week so that you don't cool your yeast the
first time more than you desire.  I keep meaning to try this for a lager
this spring.

Wilf asks about UK homebrewers on the HBD.  There are a few but seldom jump
into the ruckus.  perhaps they are brewing or even drinking bitters too much
to post.  I did enjoy my trip this past January to the UK and
manchester/stockport as I managed to get to the friday session of the CAMRA
Winter Ale Festival.  Nice to try Bass#1 and their Imperial Stout made at
the Museum Brewing Co.  Old Tom, yum!!!! 

Pete Czerpak
albany, NY


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:59:37 -0500
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Keg Lube

Jason asked about Keg Lube.

Williams Brewing sells Keg Lube. They also sell an oversized keg lid o-ring
that is described as being slightly larger in thickness, and made of a more
pliable material to conform to dings and dents. I replaced all my keg lid
o-rings with these and I've never had a leak since.


Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E  Rennerian
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:02:56 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Flatulence and Pitching Yeast


Well, finally a meaty issue for discussion.  Why I thought I had read it
all until I saw this subject line.

Speaking of the issue, I have personally noticed a strong correlation
between ingestion of pre-pitched wort and impending gaseous expulsions.
You see, it's customary in my brewery to taste the chilled wort and make
exclamations like, "Oh that's gonna be good!"  This custom has lead to the
aforementioned perceived correlation.  Within minutes of ingestion, well,
you know, it happens.  I figure it's like reverse pitching.  

Issue: Could this correlation, if real, be useful in brewing?

Assuming background levels are negligible, could measurements be taken,
noting both the time (after ingestion of wort sample) that sufficient
quantity has built up to require expulsion and the volume of said
expulsion, as a measurement of wort fermentability?  Could these data
points be collected over time to show a relationship?  Knowing this in
advance could be useful information.  You'd be able to make
adjustments-temperature, aeration, rousing of yeast, etc.  

What with variability of human anatomy and micro flora populations therein,
calibration would be an important issue though.  And you thought
thermometer calibration was tough!

After all, before sophisticated measuring devices were developed we relied
on our bodies to measure things.  Rule of thumb anyone?

Hope this helps. [tongue planted most firmly in cheek]  Oh, get your minds
out of the gutter!


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Murrayville, GA




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:10:28 -0500
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353 at hotmail.com>
Subject: More New Brewer questions

Nils is learning fast, but has more questions.  Here's my take on a couple
of them:

> I realized I had just siphoned the room
> temperature beer into almost boiling water.    Any idea about how badly
I've
> messed up my beer?

None.  Assuming you racked 5 gal of room temperature beer on 1-2 cups of
boiling temperature sugar solution,  the temperature in the bottling nucket
would have dropped below the level harmful to yeast very quickly (back of
the envelope says 110F after about  a half gallon).  Plenty of health yeast
left.

> the vodka gets sucked down to the level of the airholes in the
> floating airlock cap.  I keep filling the lock back up, but within a few
> seconds, most of the vodka will be sucked back down again.

You have what is called a "loop seal".  The pressure inside the carboy
dropped as the wort continued to cool, sucking the liquid up.  Actually, the
atmospheric pressure is pushing down the surface of the liquid outside the
floating airlock cap, until the level inside the cap is reaches the rim of
the innermost tube of the airlock and begins to flow into the carboy.  The
liquid continues to flow until the outside level drops either to the point
that the level difference is equal to the pressure differential between
inside and atmospheric, or air leaks around the bottom of the floating cap
and equalizes the pressure.  Since the inner airlock liquid level is at the
rim of the inside tube, when you pour more vodka in it simply runs into the
carboy.  Solution:  take the floating cap out of the airlock to let the
pressure equalize, and then refill the airlock.

> 4) How removable are the standard office Avery labels from beer bottles?

Here's my technique:  Print your labels on ordinary printer paper, six to a
sheet.  Apply them to the bottles with a glue stick, using just one strip of
glue on each side of the label (no need to cover the whole label with glue).
The will stay on the bottles just fine, and they come right off with tap
water.

Cheers,
Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Georgia


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:53:25 -0600
From: Kelly <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: 

You're thinking of paying for them??  I've seen many of them lying around 
for free....just outside of some vending places at football games...etc.
:-)

Actually, I've just been lucky and had friends who gave them to me....I 
didn't ask the source...and they get to hit the kegs whenever they want....

You said......
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:52:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: Thoughts of kegging

Hi gang..
As the duldrums of winter are behind and thoughts turn to spring I have
begun whimsical dreams of kegging. Never tried it nor seen it done so
other than that standing in my way.
Corny's seem the best bang for the buck so i'm wondering what a good corny
keg setup "should" cost? Several places online have a good spread of
pricing, most falling in the $150-$180 range for the most basic (keg, co2
& regulator) to $275-$300. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news
X
/ \



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:14:05 EST
From: CMEBREW at aol.com
Subject: buckwheat ale

Charlie Preston in Mansfield, Ohio------I  brewed a 5 gal batch of ale using  
a pound of raw buckwheat seed in a total grain bill of 9lb, 2oz. It was 
kegged a week ago and  sampled today. While it's very tasty, I don't seem to 
detect a BW taste, however the beer dropped bright, and has a good lingering 
taste.  I kept the IBU's low (15) so I could detect the BW better and I find 
it to be a good drinking beer that should improve with another 10 days in 
keg.  
I crushed the seeds with a mill and separated the husk by sifting thru a 
coarse sieve so I wouldn't extract tannins if they were boiled with the 
grist. (I later added the husk in the main mash to aid lautering) Then I did 
a cereal mash with about 12 oz of american 6 row: 125d/10"; 153d/30", then 
brought to a simmering boil for 30" and added to main mash that had been at 
140d for maybe 30". It was then ramped to 156 and rested until starch 
conversion, another 30" or so. Pitched with a Wyeast 1318 slurry, and primary 
was over in 3 days at 68d. Secondary in glass for 7 days.  If anyone has used 
BW before and liked it, or not, how about a post on HBD?   Would it have been 
better to malt it first?  I would recommend, if you want to try it yourself, 
using 1.5 lbs. I think the suble taste of BW will  come thru better. Whether 
that's good or bad, I'll let you know when I try it. Or you tell me, if 
you've tried it.  Any comments on my procedure would be appreciated. Charlie


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:14:25 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: DEA Challenge

I thought some of ya'll might be interested in this:

DEA Challenge

The Down East Alers are having a homebrew competition and we need judges 
and entrants.  If you are interested in becoming one of the latter, please 
send entries to:

Burton Window and Door Center
Attn: Brian Mentzer
2255 County Home Rd.
Greenville, NC  27858

We need 2 bottles for each entry, and they may be 10 - 22 oz, crown cap or 
flip top.  The fee is $6 for the first entry and $4 for additional 
entries.  The deadline is Saturday, April 14th.

We will be using AHA standard competition rules, excluding ciders, meads, 
and sakes.

If you would like to help us judge or steward, we'll be getting down to it 
on Saturday, April 21 at 10 am.  The location is Ham's Brewhouse in 
Greenville, NC.  (Let me know if you need directions)  The awards ceremony 
will be that afternoon.

This is a BJCP and AHA registered competition.

Rick Theiner
logic at skantech.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:15:32 -0600
From: "Nachman, James" <James.Nachman at uscellular.com>
Subject: Soda Kegs

I have searched the web and have not been able to find a source for
reasonably priced 5 gal soda kegs.  Does anyone have any suggestions.

Jim
james.nachman at uscellular.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:06:42 -0800
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <don at steinfillers.com>
Subject: Oakey and brewing to styles

I agree with Dave Burley's conclusion (HBD 3590) of the romantic notions
that many have toward using oak barrels.  I don't think for a minute that
brewers in the 19th century would have passed up stainless steel vessels had
they been available.

I think any flavor from oak was incidental, not intentional and if given a
chance to use an infection free vessel they would have used what 99.9% of
the brewing industry does now - stainless steel.   The use of pitch
indicates they were trying to create an non-porous interior surface.

This raises questions of brewing to styles.  For example brewing an IPA, one
must ask:
 Were the barrels used pitch lined?
 - if yes what is the composition and flavor of the pitch?
 How long was the beer in the barrel?
 Did they use new barrels?
How often were they refilled?

On a similar note;
The wine industry has struggled with the romantic notion of the cork, and
courted the idea of synthetic for a while now.  It seems that a major
winery, Clos du Bois is going to start using synthetic corks:
"US producer of Sonoma County Wines, Clos du Bois has announced plans to
bottle an entire line of wines with a synthetic closure.
After testing synthetic corks on more than 7m bottles of wine over a period
of two years, Clos de Bois has said that in future it will use a new bottle
enclosure called Neocork on all of its classic wines collection."
The rest of the story can be found at:
http://just-drinks.com/news_detail.asp?art=11334&dm=yes


I do think an oak barrel infected with Brettanomyces, lactobacillus, and
pediococcus would make a great lambic, or two, or three.....

Don Van Valkenburg
brew at steinfillers.com
oak barrels etc.
www.steinfillers.com



Return to table of contents

---

HTML-ized on 03/28/01, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96