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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  malted oats... (leavitdg)
  Cleaning SS Stones ("A. J.")
  Historical Science v. Art ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  re; side trip to Munich ("Murray, Eric")
  jockey boxes (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  Hofbrauhaus (Marc Sedam)
  mash/lauter tun worry ("Walker, Randy")
  Growing grain ("Jamie Smith")
  RE: suggestions/questions for Wyeast 2565 Kolsch ale yeast ("John B. Doherty")
  pH ("Jim Busch")
  Winter Warmers ("Dittmar, Robert D")
  Tennessee Brew Recommendations (Richard Foote)
  First All-Grain Brew Session Debriefing ("John Zeller")
  Yeast and Beer Color, Grinding ("Gustave Rappold")
  first all grain (Ed Jones)
  Big Bavarian Red Ale (leavitdg)
  Duvel yeast, recipe ("John Thompson")
  Delayed mashing and boiling ("Don Watts")


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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 07:40:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: malted oats...

Muddie;

  The malted oats come from Thomas Fawcett, through North Country Malt
Supply, here in northern NY State.

  Marc Sedam has suggested to me that it may be the mash schedule that
has created the apparent difference...If his response does not appear
here, and if he doesn't object, then I will post his private response
to me on this...

 .Darrell


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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 11:35:52 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Cleaning SS Stones

The only thing I've had any luck with in cleaning clogged SS stones is
acetone! Don't ask me why this works or should work but it does better
than boiling in caustic for example. Note also that it doesn't always
work - it's just the best I've found. Most nail polish removers contain
lots of acetone and a whole mix of other non polar solvents such as MEK,
ethyl acetate etc. so people who don't have access to chemicals or who
don't want to spend $20 a liter for cleaner might want to try those.

A.J.



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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 07:46:06 -0400
From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Historical Science v. Art

"I mean... what did those old guys do 200 years ago before scientific
instruments???"

I think it is a very interesting question: science v. art and quality.  
Having had a wide range of cruddy beers from nicely polished
contraptions with every form of measuring tool thrusting into the
mash/wort/beer, I am not convinced that science has improved what art in
the past failed to achieve.  That being said, what has the opportunities
of science added to brewing? - fewer brewers, style standardization,
more adjuncts, longer shelf life, greater profitability, lower
alcohol.    I would hypothesize that where in brewing economies there is
a lower level of scientific application, there are more brewers, more
differentiation, fewer adjuncts, shorter shelf life and lower profits
with higher alcohol.   [Please kick this theory if you like.]

It has not added scale of operations as in the mid to late 1700's porter
vats in London were massive (20,000 barrels) and output was huge -
Whitbread having 200,000 barrel annual production in the years before
1800:  ["Porter" by Terry Foster, pages 21-22.]

In "Scotch Ale" by Gregory Noonan [at p.49] there is an interesting
comment that the water of Edinburgh gave a constant temperature.  It
could be that through not having such a range of factors going into the
brew which were available for fiddling with, the brewmaster, had less
opportunity to deviate from his given brew's makeup.   As Doug Moyer
wrote, the breweries would have perfected their product over time [and
over generations of brewmasters] through learning the nature of the
local water, local malt and, as with some belgian beers still and many
fine french wines, sometimes even the nature of local airborne yeasts.  
You may not find mocha raspberry bock in Ireland or Scotland, but you
would find a range within the geographical style.

Also, with prices fixed by statute, there was also less inclination to
experiment, though the style shift from porters to cheaper pale ales,
which required less storage time, was in part apparently caused by
profit margin.

I would suspect that while any given brewer of 1680 could have a foul
batch or poorer skills than his competator, there would not have been a
general inferiority of product due mainly to the freshness of the brew
at time of consumption.   I would fear a wine from that era more than a
beer - oxidization during storage being such a problem few reds would
not have been brown.   

Alan in PEI


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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 08:35:55 -0400
From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
Subject: re; side trip to Munich

Excellent suggestion from Marty Nachel

>>
Yes, skip the Hofbrauhaus, but by all means visit Augustiner (right inside 
the pedestrain mall near the Karls Tor on the west entrance) and Schneider's

Weisses Brauhaus just beyond the pedestrian mall to the east of the 
Marienplatz, where Aventinus is served vom fass (on draught).
<<

To which I can add that Andechser Dopplebock was the very best I had in
Munich. It is not easy to get and you cant get it here, so try hard. Right
down the sidewalk from Schneider's Brauhuas in Marienplatz is a small place
located in the back corner of the big church (the one with the two big
towers you can see from anywhere around there). Most of my German comrades
that live in Munich prefer the beers in this order (1: Andechser, 2:
Schneider, 3: Augustiner, 1009878th: Hofbrauhaus)

If you get stuck in a small club that doesn't sell anything but paulaner on
tap, see if they carry "Lowenbrau Triumphator", you would never guess that
it is Lowenbrau. It's a really dark full bodied dopplebock I'd guess in the
9% abv range.

Eric Murray
Louisville, KY



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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:37:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu>
Subject: jockey boxes

Hi, I've been looking at jockey boxes lately for family gatherings, etc 
and I'm wondering if there is any reason why I would want/need more than a
50' coil in one?  A lot of people want beer at these things, but it's not
as if the tap will be running non-stop throughout the entire life of a
corni.  Thanks.

 -Aaron



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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 09:50:07 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Hofbrauhaus

I'll side with those suggesting to go to the Hofbrauhaus.  But
here's a hint...SIT OUTSIDE!  The tourons like to go inside
because it's inside and American tourons like their vacations
neatly packaged.

But when I was there in July, my wife and I found a nice table
outside (in one of the beer gardens) next to a pleasant German
family.  They drank, we drank.  I had some wurst and a delectible
helles, said a few "Prosts!", and had an overall great time.
It's amazing that your choice of seating by a few hundred feet
can have such an effect but it does.  And even in the middle of
July, the atmosphere under the huge tree (walnut...chestnut...I
forget) was nice n' cool.

And do visit Kloster Andechs.  Magical, magical dunkles.
Mmmmmm....dunkles...

- --
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:54:56 -0600 
From: "Walker, Randy" <Walkerr at littongcs.com>
Subject: mash/lauter tun worry

I am planning to buy a 5-gallon Gott cylindrical cooler for a
mash/lauter tun. I am going to use a Phil's false bottom with it.

I was reading one of Papazian's books yesterday and it stated
that it is important to keep your sparge water above the grain bed
to prevent compaction of the grain bed and a stuck sparge.

Well, if you are mashing and sparging in the same vessel, aren't
your grains compacted when mashing? Will stirring in 25% of your
sparge water, to raise the mash temp for mashout, float the grains
somewhat?

Someone please tell me why I shouldn't worry.

Randy Walker
Litton Guidance & Control
Salt Lake City, UT
801-539-1200, X-7484
walkerr at littongcs.com



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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 11:43:09 -0300
From: "Jamie Smith" <jxsmith at vac-acc.gc.ca>
Subject: Growing grain

I tried to read the archives but there was nothing there.
Does anyone here grow their own grains for brewing?

Jamie on PEI



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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:00:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: suggestions/questions for Wyeast 2565 Kolsch ale yeast

>From: Don Price <dprice1 at tampabay.rr.com>
>Subject: suggestions/questions for Wyeast 2565 Kolsch ale yeast
>
>My Kolsch ale is fermenting along nicely. Any suggestions for pitching a
>new brew onto the cake? 

Don,
I highly recommend brewing an Altbier to pitch onto your Koelsch yeast cake. 
If you're looking for something a little higher gravity, then do as I did last
time with my WY2565 and brew a Sticke Altbier - which is a specialty "secret"
Altbier brewed to a higher gravity and hopping rate than regular Altbiers.  
A few pointers on altbier - you want alot of Munich Malt character in the beer
as opposed to Crystal Malt character, so try to avoid US & UK malt extracts. 
I've heard of one liquid extract out there (St. Pats, I believe) which is
supposed to be made from a large portion of Munich Malt.  Also, go extremely
light on the chocolate and black malts and roasted barley - but if you feel you
must, use german black malt up to about 2 oz. for color.  I prefer a longer
boil (90 to 120 minutes) to develop color and melanoidins.  Of course, I really
prefer decoction mashing for an alt, but extract brewing precludes that.  For
hops, I'd say try Spalt for middle and late kettle additions, if you can find
it.  I've fallen in love with this "not so easy to find" hop.  Any German or
Czech noble-type hop will do nicely as well.  Altbiers are up there in
bitterness, so you may want to use Hallertau N. Brewer or even German Magnum
for the bittering addition.  Some local craftbrewers I've spoken to of late
have sung the praises of Magnum as a nice high alpha, low cohumulone hop.  I'd
say ferment it closer to 60F if you can, and attach a good blow-off tube -
those German ale yeasts tend to make a huge froth, especially when a large
amount is re-pitched.  Hope this helps.

Cheers,

 -John





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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:28:15 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: pH

I like the historical take on pH and instruments and value......

As for 0.5 pH being significant, recall that pH is a log scale, so a 
factor of 0.5 on a log is exponential in results.

Jim Busch


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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:34:33 -0500 
From: "Dittmar, Robert D" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org>
Subject: Winter Warmers

Can anyone share a tried and true recipe for a spiced winter ale.  I was
looking for something using the whole gamut of Christmas spices - orange
peel, cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger - the works.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Rob Dittmar
St. Louis, MO


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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 12:33:19 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Tennessee Brew Recommendations

Hi All,

I am planning a little family vacation next week to the
Knoxville/Gatlinburg area.  What family vacation would be complete without
beer?  Consequently, I would be very appreciative of any recommendations on
brew pubs/micros to check out.  SWMBO even suggested I start checking on
area beer offerings.  I'm a lucky man.  TIA.  Private e-mails please.


Rick Foote
Murrayville, GA



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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 11:07:10 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: First All-Grain Brew Session Debriefing

Travis,

Check out this site for a good deal on a fully adjustable malt mill:

http://www.barleycrusher.com/index.html

My opinion is it would be nice to have the adjustable feature weather you 
use it or not.  This mill appears to be well made and sells for under $100 
with a money back garantee and a lifetime warranty.  I don't have one yet, 
but I plan to order one in the near future.

Your problem with keeping the sparge arm rotating is likely due to not 
having the HLT elevated enough.  Be sure the HLT is at least a foot above 
the sparge arm.  Even higher would be better in order to
have enough head pressure to spin it.  Keep the HLT as full as possible even 
if you do not use all of the water.  The head pressure increases with the 
depth of the water in the HLT.  You will need to adjust the flow rate with 
the spigot valve as the water level drops and the head pressure decreases.

 -John Z.


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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:47:53 -0400
From: "Gustave Rappold" <grappold at earthlink.net>
Subject: Yeast and Beer Color, Grinding

     HI Y'all,
  There was a Zymurgy Special Yeast Issue that commented on different beer
colors resulting from the same wort pitched with different yeasts. If
anyone wants, I'll dig it out and relate what they have to say on the
subject...
  Adjustable mills are great when milling different grains like wheat,
which has no husk, and can be milled tighter for a finer grind and better
efficiency. Grinding barley malt is a trade off between fine, for good
efficiency, and loose to preserve husk for lautering and less tannin
extraction.
    Welcome to All-Grain!!
 
     Gus

- --- Gustave Rappold
- --- grappold at earthlink.net
- --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.




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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at sdl.psych.wright.edu>
Subject: first all grain

After making my first all-grain brew today (an english special bitter) I
now understand why all your wives kicked you out of the kitchen. :-)
But, it's a labor of love! 

My question is: What does SWMBO mean? I assume it means wife, but what
exactly does the acronym stand for? 

- -- 
Ed Jones

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am 
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Big Bavarian Red Ale

I just tasted a brew that was created on 3/09/01, secondaried, then
bottled just 5 days ago (I know...it is a bit early) and it tasted so
wonderful that I had to tell someone.  Now, given the fact that I 
learned most of what I "know" about brewing from this forum...well,
you are the "someone" whom I need to tell.

I called this a Big Bavarian because it was the second time that I had
used this yeast (Wyeast 3056, originally a starter, then used in a lower 
gravity Bavarian, then here), and I planned to make it a little bit
"big".  

The malt bill was:

9lb Fawcett's Lager Malt
1 lb Fawcett's Crystal
2 Lb Wheat 
1 lb Maize

Strike temp was 160F
1st rest was at 142F for 30
ramped up to 158 for 60
mashout at 170 for 10

7 gallons of wort was collected. 
First runnings were 1.089
Boil gravity was 1.06
90 minute boil.
OG was 1.068
FG was 1.015
%abv was about 7.25%

Hops were:
Perle (7%) after 30 minutes of rolling boil
Cascade (7%) at last 15 min of 60 minute additional boil.

I don't know if it fits any style...but damn it, it is really good.

Thanks to all who have helped me learn how to brew (at least some)
good beer!  And, thanks to the Janitors and Sponsors who understand the
value of this list.

 ..Darrell





















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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:37:35 -0500
From: "John Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu>
Subject: Duvel yeast, recipe

Hello all.

Which of the Wyeasts is closest to the Duvel strain? I haven't brewed a
Belgian strong ale in a while...

Also, if someone has a good recipe, it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

John Thompson
Baton Rouge, LA



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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 22:38:36 -0400
From: "Don Watts" <dwatts23 at home.com>
Subject: Delayed mashing and boiling

I am sure that this has been discussed before but I want to bring it
up again.
I am considering  starting my mash in the morning before I go to work,
around 7:30 am, then sparging in the afternoon around 5:00pm. I am
using a single infusion 155 degree mash with a 10 gallon Gott cooler. what
are the draw backs to this, the cooler loses about 3 degrees every 2 hours.
Has anyone done this and what was the results?
Is it a good idea to try this?
Thanks

Don Watts



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