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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Efficiency linked to Batch Size? (Ant Hayes)
  How Many Batch Sparges? (Home Brewer)
  batch sparge info ("Czerpak, Pete")
  YES! (Augustiner Bierstubl im Salzburg) ("pablo")
  Eric's new three-tier brewing system (Frank Tutzauer)
  Hot Oxidation??? ("John Zeller")
  Brewpubs in Pittsburg (Carl Schulze)
  Belgian Ale for wimps recipe? (Don Price)
  RIMS Question ("Marc Hawley")
  Adelaide Mashers (Darren Miller)


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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:04:10 +0200 
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Efficiency linked to Batch Size?

brent, of electric pig brewery, asked

"Is it typical to increase efficiency when brewing larger batches?"

My efficiency improved from 65% to 85% (SUDS97) when I increased batch size
from 20 litres to 50 litres. There are a number of potentially misleading
reasons for my apparent improvement, such as better measurement. However I
have noticed that the greater thermal mass makes temperature maintenance
easier - which should improve enzyme efficiency.

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:59:37 -0400
From: Home Brewer <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: How Many Batch Sparges?

Steven Haun asks"

 >Do you use one batch sparge or two (and why)?

 >In my experience, two batch sparges result in a higher efficiency. The big
 >advantage of a single batch sparge is a shorter brew day. However, I have
 >not been able to tell a big difference in flavor. Am I missing something
 >here?

I use a single batch sparge, although I typically top up the mash with 
boiling water before draining, (about doubling the initial mash water 
volume) which raises the mash temperature above 170F. So for a typical 
bitter for example, I mash with 10L of water, top up with about 10L of 
boiling water after 60 minutes, drain, then batch sparge with about 18L of 
175F water, rest 15 - 20 minutes, then drain. My efficiency is usually 
between 75% - 80%.

It stands to reason that a further sparge would increase efficiency, 
however we're getting into the area of diminishing returns here. I imagine 
a fifth sparge would extract *some* sugar, however I don't want to get into 
24 hour boils! And of course the folks that do *proper* sparges are advised 
to stop once the runnings hit 1.010 (not 1.000)...so the point is that 
you're never going to get all the sugar.

I don't think brewers should worry too much about efficiency, as long as 
you're over say 60%. If you think your efficiency is low, you can go with a 
finer crush, but of course the price might be increased tannins. If you're 
happy with what's ending up in the mug, I wouldn't worry about what other 
folks are getting for efficiency.

Cheers,

Tim
London, Ont



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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:57:59 -0400 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: batch sparge info

Stephen Haun asks about batch sparging.  I originally got into using this
method due to lack of equipment and the desire to save some time.  I have
stuck with it for its ease and familiarity and likableness of the brews
produced.

I mash in a 10 gallon Gott.  Normally its about 11-13 lbs of grain for a 5
gallon batch.  Efficiencies tend to run about 63%.  I mash in with about 1.4
to 1.5 qt/lb grain.  I mash for 90 minutes.  I then drain first runnings
after maybe 1 qt of recirculation to get it clear.  I add my sparge in one
shot at about 0.4 to 0.5qt/lb and stir and let the grain bed settle for 15
to 30 minutes.  I then drain this second runnings and combine runnings to
bring to a boil.  My batch water addition is at 172degF.

I tend to draw the second runnings off a bit fast initially and then slower
and recirc maybe 2 qts to help pull any chunks that get by my false bottom
during stirring to help prevent set mash/clogged lines problems that have
perhaps occured badly only once in maybe 30 batches and it wasn't even a
weizen or rye batch either.

If you are using 2 batch sparges you are getting closer to approximating a
normal continuous sparge and probably don't save all that much time, atleast
if you let the grain bed rest before drawing off your first sparge and then
second sparge runnings.  I also batch sparge since I tend to cut my runnings
short anyways for lack of boiling volume in my pot and the desire to not
have to boil for long periods to reduce to desired gravity.

I have used batch sparging in my brews ranging from 1.035 bitters to CACA to
barley wines and wee heavies.

Seems to work nicely and produces some excellent brews.

Pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:14:55 -0500
From: "pablo" <pjm at cavern.uark.edu>
Subject: YES! (Augustiner Bierstubl im Salzburg)

>
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:15:02 -0500
> From: Charles.Burry at ercgroup.com
> Subject: Munich and Day trips - Oz request
>
> As someone who has been privileged to visit Munich several times a year
for
> the past 4 years (on business!) I am going to join this discussion.  Yes,
on
> the trip to Andechs though don't bother trying to squeeze in at their
little
> Munich pub in the shadow of the Frauenkirche, the Andechser vom Dom at
> Weinstrasse 7A,  it is always too crowded.  (OK, it is actually a
wonderful
> little pub with a, when necessary, heated standing room patio area.  But
it
> is normally very crowded and I want to be able to find a table!)  Let me
> also suggest a trip to the Weihenstephan brewery, part of the University
of
> Technology Munich, located in Freising. They claim it to be the oldest
> brewery in the world and have a very nice little pub.  In Munich proper, a
> visit to the Unionsbrau brewpub at Einsteinstrasse 42 just off of the Max
> Weber Platz, affiliated with Lowenbrau, can be quite enjoyable.  Find your
> way to basement pub and enjoy their cloudy Helles straight from wooden
> casks.  Being from Kansas City, I cannot recommend their version of
> bar-b-que'd ribs. :-)

   <de-lurk>  The above is good to know!  I'm headed to Munchen in May, and
was not aware of these spots when there last in '97.  Alas, my wife and I
arrived in Munich a little hung over from closing down the Frauendorfer
Gasthof in Garmisch/Partenkirchen the night before with the Stuttgart Fire
Brigade -who happened to be on their once-a-year holiday, or somesuch...
Whew...!  An unforgettable evening!  Consequently, we didn't do much beer
sampling in Munich...  :P

> Last, find the time to take at least a day trip down
> to Salzburg, Austria.  2 hours and $20 dollars each way on the train.
> Absolutely stunning, charming little city.  Find your way to the Monastery
> Augustiner Brau on Augustinerstrasse 2-4; note that at least in the "off
> season" the beer halls did not open until 5:00 pm.  Picture beer halls
with
> stained glass windows and the most perfect of Marzen bier drawn straight
> from wooden casks.  Pick your mug up from the rack, give it rinse and
> prepare to enjoy a gift straight from God herself.  (After the first sip,
> you will wish you had made plans to send the night in Salzburg!)
>
>  Charlie Burry
>

    Dear friends, I encourage you to take Mr. Burry's advice to heart...  I
had the priveledge of sampling this Marzen during the aforementioned trip,
and it is indeed "perfect" -nay, _sublime_.  I've never had anything like it
before or since....  It was like the pefect marraige of malt and hops -not
too sweet, not too dry- perfection; drinking this beer was as easy as
drinking water...  It was utterly balanced like nothing else I've ever
tasted (grant you, my experience is probably more limited than some)...
Anyway, I could go on and on...  Needless to say, it's well worth a visit,
as is Salzburg...

 -Paul Morstad

<engage lurk>



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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:18:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Eric's new three-tier brewing system

>I have finally updated my website on my 3-Tiered system. 
>New pictures of fermentation, etc.  Please check out
>http://www.schoville.com/beer

>Eric Schoville
>Flower Mound, TX

Eric, buddy, you seriously screwed up.  Starting at the top, the three
tiers should run from left to right, and yours run from right to left.  I
think your beer quality will suffer because of this....

Actually, she's a beaut, and if I ever get a place with enough room, I'm
building one for myself.  Have fun with it!

 --frank




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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:44:54 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Hot Oxidation???

Earl,

This question raises its ugly head every so often and the general consensus 
seems to be that the problem is largely a myth.  Hot side aeration (HSA) is 
a possibility if you introduce excessive amounts of air into the hot wort 
with a lot of splashing, shaking, vigorous stirring or mixing, but with 
normal care it isn't likely to occur.
Just be as gentle as you can when transfering hot wort.  HSA is not a 
problem during the actual boiling because the oxygen is driven off by the 
heat.

If you are brewing with extracts, heat the water slowly at first and
add the extract.  The main thing you want to avoid is scorching of the 
extract on the bottom of the pot.  Stir it well while heating to minimize 
this possibility.  After you are sure that the extract is dissolved, you can 
increase the heat and bring it to a boil rapidy.
With an all grain wort, the scorching is usually not a problem and you can 
apply high heat from the start.  Boil with the lid off.  This allows some 
undesirable volatile compounds to be driven off as vapor.

Once the wort is boiling vigorously, you can turn down the heat and still 
maintain a roiling boil in most cases.  There is nothing to be gained by 
applying more heat than needed to maintain the boil.


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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:56:30 -0400
From: Carl Schulze <carl at INTERNETCSI.COM>
Subject: Brewpubs in Pittsburg

Hail to the Mavens of HomeBrewing!

I will be traveling to Pittsburg, PA over the easter week, and am
looking for help finding good brewpubs/breweries/shops to visit while
there - any help will be greatly appreciated!

Carl Schulze
Groop Hom Brewery
Kearny, New Jersey



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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:17:27 -0400
From: Don Price <dprice1 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Belgian Ale for wimps recipe? 

I am looking for recipes (extract/specialty grains) to brew a Belgian
double and tripple.  As this will be my first attempt at a Belgian I
think I would prefer to stick to relatively simple recipes (no fresh
fruit) and modest fruit/ester/clove character.    These brews will be
used to introduce many friends (I hope) to the Belgian style so I don't
want to intimidate them....thus, Belgian for wimps.  On second
thought...nah, screw 'em!.  Let's shoot for 7.5% and 10% ABV and make
them learn to like it!

I would like to use the same yeast for both batches (if reasonable) by
pitching the triple onto the double's yeast cake.  I would appreciate
any advice on the Wyeast Belgian strains since they have several and I
have no clue where to start on picking one or a target fermentation
temperature.

I have checked the Cat's Meow and Gambrinus Mug databases but they don't
have much info on the character of the brews.

Thanks in advance,

Don

Suitcase City Brewery



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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:03:39 -0500
From: "Marc Hawley" <Marc_Hawley at email.msn.com>
Subject: RIMS Question

Suppose you are adding heat to the mash during recirculation in some sort of
RIMS setup. Clearly, different parts of the mash experience different
time/temperature profiles. What is the optimum way to control this?

For example: Suppose you have mashed in at 104 F for a beta glucans rest.
You are using highly modified malt and wish to step directly to 152 F
without any further modification of the head-supporting proteins, that is,
you wish to spend no time at all in the 112 F to 122 F range. Further
suppose that the mash tun is very full and you have no room to infuse any
more hot water.

If you recirculate and heat the liquid to 152 F before reintroducing it to
the top of the mash, the top layer of mash will experience the desired
effect. It will step rather quickly to near 152 F.

But consider an area of mash mid-way down the mash tun. By the time the
leading edge of the heated liquid reaches that point, it will have been
cooled by contact with the cooler grist. This area of mash will experience
not only a delay, but a more gradual ramp up in temperature. It will spend
more time in the temperature range we are trying to avoid. The slope of the
ramp will be even less toward the bottom of the mash.

It may be desirable to overshoot the initial temperature of the heated
liquid. It may be better to reintroduce the heated liquid at, say, 160 F, at
least at the beginning, so that that ramp for the lower parts of the mash
will be steeper.

Has anyone quantified these effects? Or worked out rules of thumb to better
control the time/temperature profile of the overall mash?





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Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:38:26 +0930
From: Darren Miller <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Adelaide Mashers

Howdy,
Brew season is nearly upon us and I was wondering if anyone in Adelaide
wants to go in on a bulk purchase of grain from Adelaide Maltings. The
pale grain is 80c/kg (good price)plus they have a few specialties too.
The only catch is we need to come up with a minimum order of 500kg. I am
looking to purchase at least 100kg myself and I know of another who is
also interested in 100 too so we are almost half way there.
Anyone who is interested please EMAIL me.
cheers
Darren


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