HOMEBREW Digest #3603 Tue 10 April 2001

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  Re: I repeat myself when under stress (Christopher Farley)
  RE: Drying Carboys ("Cuchulain Libby")
  Re:  Switch it up a little ("Ian Forbes")
  Sticky Mash and Loose Fingers ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  pubcrawler.com (mohrstrom)
  HSA, cleaning & dry carboys ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Lambic question ("Hertz, Jeffrey")
  re: Hot Oxidation & Here we go again..../End of Boil Wort pH ("Stephen Alexander")
  mega mashing ("Hill, Steve")
  Water & Lambic & Leffe Q's & PID Suggestion ("Jay Wirsig")
  Steeping Specialty Grains & Drying Carboys ("John Zeller")
  Counterflow Cleaning -> pouncing! ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Re: Dry Carboys (Mike Mckinney)
  Re: Here we go again.... (Spencer W Thomas)
  CO2 cylinders (JGORMAN)
  cleaning keg lube ("Stephen")
  Re: Steeping Specialty Grains (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com>
  colour of malts ("elvira toews")
  Re: Wonderful World of Zymico ("The Holders")
  Changing over... (root)
  Re: End of Boiling Wort pH (RBoland)
  Mini Kegs ("Tom Byrnes")
  de-fizz beer ("Songbird Tulip")
  Re:  Steeping Specialty Grains & Drying Carboys (The Man From Plaid)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 00:39:23 -0500 From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com> Subject: Re: I repeat myself when under stress The Disciplined Marc Gaspard wrote: > Someone else already mentioned it, but I missed the mark on the > Duvel clone yeast suggestion. It was the Wyeast 1388 Strong > Ale yeast I meant, not the high gravity Trappist 3787. I've used > both, but the post I wrote below WAS 1388. I do remember one thing: White Lab's WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale Yeast is an obvious choice for doing Duvel or Delirium Tremes type beers. Too bad it's only available in Jan/Feb. The more I brew with it, the more I like it... - -- Christopher Farley www.northernbrewer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 04:45:33 -0500 From: "Cuchulain Libby" <cuchulain at satx.rr.com> Subject: RE: Drying Carboys >Does anyone have a faster way to dry carboys out? >Thanks, >Nils Hedglin My neighbor brews. How do I know? Outside his shed is a sawhorse with several carboys inverted on holes drilled through the cross-member. They sit there for weeks/months until needed, must be eight of 'em. Turns out he makes wine from the wild mustang grapes here in SoTex. -Hound ICQ 83719527 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:18:54 -0400 From: "Ian Forbes" <ian.forbes at snet.net> Subject: Re: Switch it up a little Casey asks: "...What would happen if you put a lager yeast in say, a London porter, and fermented at lager temps...or even ale temps for that matter." Not sure you want to ferment a lager yeast at ale temps (but if you let us know how it turns out), but I do know that a Porter with lager yeast at lager temps can be quite tasty. Very clean with, obviously, less fruitiness, but that's ok as the other flavors (roastiness, coffee...) flavors really shine. A commercial of a porter brewed with lager yeast is Yuengling Porter. "...the insulation became quit large from the wobbly drilling. What kind of insulation should I use to fill it so as to not lose any precious cold air." You could use Great Stuff which is an expanding foam insulation in an aerosol can. One suggestion would be to wrap the lines or shank with wax paper so that you can remove them after the Great Stuff dries. Cheers! Ian in Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:26:17 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Sticky Mash and Loose Fingers Pat Babcock asks : >Hmmmm... Isn't tannin extraction a function of pH? About all >high >temperature will do is to release starches which will never >be converted, >resulting in hazy beer. It is the inability of the relatively low >quantity >of malt to affect the high pH of water that causes the >tannins to be >extracted into your beer... I have mentioned this matter before but I am not sure that anyone took me seriously (how rude of them!). It is my opinion that the magical pH of around 6.0 when sparging simply relates to a point where little of the sugars are left in your mash to be worth extracting. Possibly your sparging water is around pH 7.0 and your mash pH might be 5.4. The longer you sparge, the pH of the run off must increase towards that of the sparge water. At pH 6.0 it is a good idea to cease all sparging (just have a taste of what is coming out) because all meaningful extraction has But on more concerning matters, John Hopoate has been accredited by Paul Mahoney for causing a cessation of Aussie input on the HBD. Paul, I must tell you that Aussies are not inclined to go quiet just because a mate inserts his finger up your rectum! Quite the opposite in fact. This sort of practise was prolific at the Burradoo Hilton before I arrived here and appointed myself as Baron. John Hopoate by the way was a regular patron. No, I am afraid the mystery of the vanished Aussies goes a lot deeper than John's exploring fingers. I'm not sure where they have all got to. But when I find them their rectums will be a lot sorer than would have resulted from a game of footy with John Hopoate!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:43:26 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com Subject: pubcrawler.com Dave Hume is rightfully concerned: > pubcrawler.com is no longer responding. Does anyone know if > they have shut down? Recently, Pubcrawler announced that they had been acquired, and that changes were in the offing. Pubcrawler has been - and hopefully still will be - a wonderful resource for those like me who must roam the earth in servitude to our employers. Some days on the road, it's only beer and baseball offering solace. In the off season, I'm down to just beer ... Mark (for the moment) in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:57:12 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: HSA, cleaning & dry carboys John Zeller wrote of HSA: >I was under >the impression that there IS a general consensus that HSA was not really a >big concern. [snip] The other point would be that there is not much you >can do to avoid it other than be as gentle with the hot wort as possible >when transferring it from one vessel to another and chillig it as quickly as >you can. What else can be done? John, I'd say the above statement regarding HSA concerns is not correct. Many here do seem to be concerned but it seems to be an accepted possible phenomenon for each batch. Many have decided to live with the possibility of HSA and employ the simplest measures to reduce it's effects: gentle transfers of hot wort, no splashing, chilling quickly and partially covered boils (keeps a steam cover on the surface). Then there are those who do nothing and those who go to great measure to reduce the risk of HSA: floating plastic balls on the surface, CO2 blankets, enlisting the help of the devil... ok... only Graham does this. [that should lure him out of his hole] The funny thing is that all 3 methods can yield great beer. But the question is - how consistently? >Papazian himself doesn't seem to be afraid >of straining hot wort. That for sure must be a risky procedure. Charlie doesn't seem to worry about much. His "don't worry" philosophy seems to work in that he's not worrying and therefore, not fiddling. I know that "fiddling" has been the downfall of a few of my brews ;-) Ken Johnson wrote of cleaning & sanitizing CF chillers: >I have never done anything past a good >rinsing and an occasional (every 15-20 batches) weak mix of water and PBW >or TSP on my own equipment. [snip] I still maintain that all you >really need to do is rinse thoroughly just before and just after chilling a >batch of beer. My question is: If you remove the food source for bacteria, yeasts and mold by thoroughly rinsing your equipment after use, what will those nasty bugs live on? I maintain that Ken's practice of rinsing is a good one and will reduce the contaminant population inside the CF chiller to a manageable level. However, sanitizing all of your equipment will help to reduce the overall contaminant population as contaminations are additive throughout the process. >I realize that I will now be pounced upon by >the scientists and the engineers. So be it! Don't worry Ken, I have no desire to pounce on another man ;-) >Counterflow chillers don't ruin beer. >Sloppy brewers ruin beer. Funny part is that the sloppy brewer who blames a >bad batch on a counterflow chiller, probably added several infections from >everything BUT the chiller! Very true, many brewers would rather blame their equipment or other factor outside of their control on a crappy batch instead of admit their failure. Want to hear a million excuses? Play golf. Damn club, damn glove, friggin' shoes, crappy putter, *&^%# hand grips, the goose distracted me, do you mind not chewing so loudly, who put that tree there?!?... Nils asked about drying carboys: >After I wash my carboys, I like to seal them with plastic wrap to keep the >bad stuff out. But, I don't want to do that until all the water has >evaporated out of it since I'd think the water could possibly mildew in the >enclosed carboy. Don't worry too much about mildew. Have never seen it happen to any of mine. I sanitize all my glass overnight with stong bleach (1 oz/gal) and just dump it out the next morning. No rinse. I throw an aluminum foil cap on top and store it in the attic until needed again. As long as you keep it sealed, nothing will get in. Inverted is still open to the air. While the possibility of a current carrying a few nasties upwards into your carboy is low, it is still higher than zero, which is what you get with a sealed container. The water doesn't evaporate out, but then, mildew and wild yeasts can't beam themselves in either. Plus, you should be sanitizing again before use anyway. Your best bet is to store them clean, sanitized, sealed and empty. Let's see 3 subjects X my 2 cents = 6 cents, please! Does anyone have change of a dime?!? Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:21:47 -0500 From: "Hertz, Jeffrey" <HertzJ at nuveen.com> Subject: Lambic question > I've never submitted anything to this forum before, so here goes.... > > > To give my quick story, I am in the process of fermenting my first > plambic, a raspberry one nonetheless, and did the primary using a basic > ale yeast (1056) and then transferred into a secondary, and added the > wyeast lambic blend and two cans of sterilized raspberry puree. That was > about two months ago, I tasted it last night and of course there's some > funky lambic-ee type stuff, but I think most of the sugar from the > raspberries has been consumed as well. I'd really like to get a little > more sweet raspberry flavor. Should I add another can of puree and bottle > soon after, or add some flavor concentrate like you'd use for a regular > type fruit beer or are there any other alternatives? My worry with more > puree is that the beer will be somewhat sedimenty (is that a word?) and > the sugar in it might be eaten by the yeasties and produce raspberry bomb > bottles. I've used fruit concentrates before and had good luck with the > flavor quality, but the purist in me would rather use real fruit. Any > ideas? Maybe next time I should just lambic-ize the base beer, then add > the puree near the end of fermentation. > > > Jeff Hertz (hertzj at nuveen.com) > > -Try not, do or do not, there is no try. > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:40:22 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Hot Oxidation & Here we go again..../End of Boil Wort pH John Zeller writes ... >This question raises its ugly head every so often and the general consensus >seems to be that the problem is largely a myth. Myth !! I can point you to many journal articles on the sources and impact of oxidation in beer. In fact trans-nonenals (the cardboard aroma) is almost solely attributable to mash oxidation. Whether it is important to HBers who drink all their beers in under 8 weeks is another issue but it's not a myth. >Hot side aeration (HSA) is a possibility if you introduce excessive >amounts of air into the hot wort with a lot of splashing, shaking, >vigorous stirring or mixing, but with normal care it isn't likely to occur. No - the oxygen which is involved in this oxidation (oxygen is not required for oxidative processes) may already appear in grain components at mash in. For example beer from wet milled grist has a significantly lower oxidation potential than that from dry milled grist apparently because of oxidation of the cracked grist when exposed to air. It is known that enzyme systems in the mash can use saturation level dissolved oxygen very quickly (on the order of one minute). There are many oxidative processes in the mash which compete for this oxygen and which have variable flavor results. After the dissolved oxygen is used up the oxygen at the surface interface is sufficient to cause the reaction of several times more O2 into the mash goods. Reaction of the surface layer of the mash/boiler is the primary source of oxygen uptake in wort. Splashing and stirring will introduce more O2, but one critical factor in the amount of trans-nonenal developed is the amount/activity of lipo-oxygenase enzyme in the malt. >Just be as gentle as you can when transferring hot wort. HSA is not a >problem during the actual boiling because the oxygen is driven off by the >heat. There are no enzyme processes involved in the boil, but it is certainly possible to oxidize phenolic compounds in the boil. This is well known by anyone attempting to make a light colored pils. The resulting wort color difference from a covered vs open boil with this light colored wort is quite obvious. The same changes occur in darker worts, but are not visible. Oxidized vs unoxidized phenolics are a significant flavor factor too, while unoxidized simple phenolics often lend to a brisk freshness, oxidized phenolics give a more tired even stale or bitter flavor. This factor is unlikely to ruin a beer, but it may have an impact. [...and in another post...] >I did look through the archives, but it was quite a while ago. I was under >the impression that there IS a general consensus that HSA was not really a >big concern. It limits the 'shelf-life' of your beer and may impact the freshness of the beer's flavor too.. Oxidized lipids slowly, after fermentation ceases, start to break down giving off-flavored products. Other issues like oxidized phenolics lead to a slight but more immediate deficit. There is no clear demarcation point, but it's reasonable to consider that some, perhaps most, of the losses in freshness and the compounding off-flavors as any beer ages are due to oxidation, some part of which HSA. I don't know how anyone else feels about beer aging, but I see that after a 'green' period when there may be yeast in suspension or 'unfinished' flavors, there is a brief optimal flavor period followed by a slow decline. Certainly the hops flavor and aroma changes from week to week. The malty aspects change too - tho' more subtly. The briskness/freshness changes rapidly too - ales just don't taste the same at 10 weeks as at 5 weeks, and usually for the worse. My perception and experience is that bottle conditioned beers retain remarkable freshness/crispness as compared to kegged beer, and perhaps related, that krausened beers compare positively to unkrausened in terms of freshness. >If it was, I would think that any beer made with a RIMS would >suffer because of it. It is a design concern, but a properly operating RIMS shouldn't entrain oxygen in the mash. >The other point would be that there is not much you >can do to avoid it other than be as gentle with the hot wort as possible >when transferring it from one vessel to another and chilling it as quickly as >you can. What else can be done? I just repeated an experiment suggested by Charles Bamforth, by making a split batch pils (back in early January) and adding 1.5gm of sodium metabisulphite (campden's tablets) to the mash of one 5gal batch. This should prevent some of the oxidative processes which otherwise take place in the mash. The wort was a little overhopped (miscalculation) so flavor differences didn't show clearly until mid-march, but the metabite mash pils was definitely crisper and a shade lighter in color too. Not that either was bad - if fact both were quite fetching after the hop flavor declined a bit. One could also mash and boil with a lid on, blow CO2 or nitrogen thru the grist, mash-in with de-oxygenated water, float an O2 barrier on the mash/boiler - I can think of a lot of steps to take to decrease HSA. >I have not >experienced any obvious oxidation related problems, but then my brews get >consumed rather quickly so maybe that is the reason. True - and you probably haven't performed a fair comparison of your current procedures vs the least oxidative procedures you reasonable can use. No one is claiming your beer is ruined because you failed to use a lid, but it probably has an impact that you could taste. >I thought this issue >had been put to rest a long time ago. This isn't the first time I have been >wrong and probably won't be the last. I think there has been an increasing understanding (on my part at least) that the major impact occurs early in the mash. Yes you can harm a beer by blowing air through it later, but all things being equal - the early mash period is the most critical. HSA is a minor factor in beer flavor - that is true - but so are mash pH, mashout temps, lauter water pH, decoction and yeast vitality & state & pitching rate. You can make very good beer ignoring all of these (within limits), but better beer by paying attention to them. - -- Russ Kruska says, ... the taste effects of wort pH at the end of the boil. >Various publications I have read say to try to adjust the final pH to around >5.2 (room temp). But I was wondering if different styles benefit from >variations Few sources I've seen suggest post boil adjustment. The wort pH should drop a few tenths during the boil naturally. W/in reasonable limits the post boil pH has little impact on flavors. The yeast enjoy a lower pH but they will create this environment themselves in a few hours. Some sources suggest dropping the pH to about 4.9 in order to assist the yeast in uptaking vitamin co-factors, but I'd reserve that cure for cases (like high gravity brewing) where the disease is immanent. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:13:02 -0400 From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com> Subject: mega mashing Good morning: I am in search of some mega mashing. My buddy and I did a sami close clone last year and it finally got into bottles about 2 months ago. HEY SEDOM- WE STILL HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN YOU -- YOU WILL BE RECEIVING SOME SAMPLES. My friend and I both used our mash tuns and did first runnings with 70 lbs of grain -- YUMMY! What I want to achieve is a container to be able to fit at least 75-120lbs of grain. My thoughts were maybe to weld a sanke keg on top of another keg OR to buy a 35 gallon stainless steel barrel. My concerns are depth of grain Vs the size of the vessel. I will be BATCH sparging so over extraction will not be my concern. My concern is running my pump for re-circing and getting too thick of a filter bed. Any thoughts or idea's from the masses? Thanks Steve Hill Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:13:32 -0400 From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> Subject: Water & Lambic & Leffe Q's & PID Suggestion Water Question: Most folks who responded to my water question felt that my water required no adjustment. This puzzled me as the alkalinity is 89 ppm and Ca was 36 ppm. I thought that the calcium would be entirely consumed by the alkalinity as the water was heated (Ca CO3), leaving little Ca but additional buffering alkalinity. What ppm level of alkalinity can a pilsner malt handle? Are there acids in the malt that neutralize the alkalinity that occur instead of the Ca CO3 reaction? Lambic Question I wish to do my first Lambic this year. I really like the kriek & framboise and Gueze. I prefer the sour complex styles vs Bellevue (which I find difficult to believe it is true to style). I have ordered the Lambic Style series book, as well I have the Zymergy "The allure of Lambic". Seeing has how amature brewing is advancing in leaps and bounds every year I was wondering if there is any new information out there or if there was a Lambic "Specialist" (someone who has had consistant success producing sour complex lambic -gueze ) on the HBD that I would be interested in corresponding with me. I have just sent a request to subscribe to the lambic digest - not sure if is still a going concern but hope so! Leffe Has anyone got a clone recipe for this beer. I suspect that the yeast strain/fermentation temps are the big secret. PID Suggestion: Someone wrote about temperature control of the mash during stepping. A PID controller can be "tuned" by adjusting the Proportion, Intergal & Deriviative (PID) to bring you to the temperature without overshooting. You may wish to "tune" it for temperature boosts (one set of constants for PID values) and tune it for temperature maintenance (a second set of constants for PID values). To my mind this would be a complete waste of time but an interesting intellectual exercise that one can do and tell our non brewing buddies about to sound even more geeky than we already are. If your interest has been peaked I suggest a seach of the net under PID controllers will bring you to several manufacture's sites that can tell you how a PID controller works and how to tune. My preference for tuning is the Ziegler Nicholls method - I got it off the net. Since it is the grain bed temperature that we wish to control I believe that the themocouple should be placed in the grain bed not the recirculation line also I have found that a light fire under the tun (converted keg) while the grain is being recirculated works well for faster ramping - I just shut it off a few degrees before final temp is reached and let the PID do its thing. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:25:20 -0700 From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> Subject: Steeping Specialty Grains & Drying Carboys Pat (The Man From Plaid), You posted: "Hmmmm... Isn't tannin extraction a function of pH? About all high temperature will do is to release starches which will never be converted, resulting in hazy beer. It is the inability of the relatively low quantity of malt to affect the high pH of water that causes the tannins to be extracted into your beer..." Hmmmm...Papazian says in The Home Brewer's Companion (page 31): "For ideal extraction of the favorable qualities of any malt, the crushed grain should never be brought to a boil. Some recipes and procedures guide beginning brewers to bring these specialty malts just to a boil and quickly remove them from the heat source. This is a simple procedure designed to encourage their use by beginning brewers. For those who desire to improve the quality of their beers with a small additional investment in time and attention, the grains should never be steeped in water whose temperature exceeds 170 degrees F (77 degress C). The extraction of undesirable tannin and astringent characters is minimized with a lower-temperature steep" ...and again in The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (page 55): "This question has been debated by many homebrewers and many homebrewing books. The fact is that when any whole grain is boiled in a wort, the latter will absorb certain flavors that are extracted from the husks of the grain, such as a certain amount of tannin and other substances. The flavor of tannin can be described as astringent or noticeably dry or grainy." Dave Miller mentions something similar in his book, The complete handbook of Home Brewing (page 100): "Many recipes call for boiling specialty grains in the kettle with the extract wort. This procedure leaches large amounts of tannin from the husks, and can give a harsh "puckery" taste to the finished beer." These books were the source of my advice to Nils on the problem he describes as a harsh, spoiled pickle zing in his brew. Dunno what his ph was at. Maybe that could also be part of the problem. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:58:51 -0500 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Counterflow Cleaning -> pouncing! Ken Johnson gives the following advice: >I have never done anything past a good >rinsing and an occasional (every 15-20 batches) weak mix of water and PBW >or TSP on my own equipment. I realize that I will now be pounced upon by >the scientists and the engineers. So be it! I still maintain that all you >really need to do is rinse thoroughly just before and just after chilling a >batch of beer. Hmmm... Sounds like some bad beer just waiting to happen. I think we all need to be a little more deligent in our sanitation of CF chillers than the advice above. My standard procedure is to recirculate some PBW through the chiller, pump, and connecting lines after every brew. Then when it comes time to use it for the next brew, I boil the entire thing (it's an all-copper PBS MaxiChiller) for 15 minutes, then drop the boiling water through it. I used to just rinse my chiller after every brew, but had a couple of infected batches that lead me to change my chiller sanitation process. Haven't had a bad batch since I started using the above cleaning procedure. I believe that CF chillers are a common source of infection in both the homebrew world and in the microbrewery world. In fact, I remember a couple of posts here a couple of years ago about a pro discovering the source of infections in his microbrewery being his plate chiller. Remember - when you are talking full volume boils, the lines, chiller, and fermenter are the only things that touch your cooled wort. Keep these three things clean and sanitary and you will never have problems w/ infections... Dan in Minnetonka BTW - I brewed last Saturday. 12 gallons of First Wort Hopped 1.052 American Pale Ale are fermenting away as we speak. Should be done in time for the Northern Brewer Homebrew Competition. Hope it is good! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:24:15 -0500 From: Mike Mckinney <mikemck at austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: Dry Carboys "Abby, Ellen and Alan" writes: >Nils Hedglin asked "Does anyone have a faster way to dry carboys out? > >I don't dry them out at all but leave them full to the lip with a very >mild sanitizing solution. Maybe this is a worse idea for reasons I am >not aware of but it's my current practice. The only drawback I can think of is if one of them breaks for some reason... At least if you break a dry carboy all you have to clean up is glass. - -- mikemck at austin.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:20:02 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Here we go again.... >>>>> "John" == John Zeller <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> writes: John> Papazian himself doesn't seem to be John> afraid of straining hot wort. That for sure must be a risky John> procedure. That for sure IS a risky procedure. I have tasted many oxidized beers resulting from this practice. Oxidation is a sneaky beast. The flavor effect doesn't happen all at once. It can be minimized by good storage practice (cool). It can be exacerbated by shipping (heat & agitation) your beer to a competition. The flavor effects can be subtle -- a slight "winyness," or some loss of hop flavor, or a mild increase in "huskiness" -- or severe -- the beer tastes like sherry, or wet cardboard, or has a very harsh flavor. If you keep your beer cold and drink it quickly, you may never detect the effects of of the rough handling your wort received. If you keep it a long time and ship it to a competition in the summer, you may be unpleasantly surprised and confused at the poor scores and comments you get back. ("But it doesn't taste that way to me?!") =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:40:00 -0400 From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com Subject: CO2 cylinders I have an old CO2 cylinder that failed the hydro test. Is there any way to refurbish it so it will pass and can be reused? Are there any places that take them in on trade or is it a boat anchor? Jason Gorman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:22:22 -0400 From: "Stephen" <stephennyc at about.com> Subject: cleaning keg lube Last month there was a bit of talk about keg lube - what's the best way to clean that stuff off my stuff? I find the stuff is just about impossible to easily remove. - Steve (mostly lurking...) Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:52:19 -0400 From: "Moyer, Douglas (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer at indsys.ge.com> Subject: Re: Steeping Specialty Grains The Janitor from Plaid spake thusly: "Hmmmm... Isn't tannin extraction a function of pH? About all high temperature will do is to release starches which will never be converted, resulting in hazy beer. It is the inability of the relatively low quantity of malt to affect the high pH of water that causes the tannins to be extracted into your beer..." Whoa there, Plaidboy! Unless your water has some amazing buffering abilities, the specialty grains are going to drop that pH right into the happy range (or near enough). "High" pH at the end of a sparge is one thing, steeping specialty grains is entirely another. Okay science folks.... attack! (Ow! Hey, I meant Pat, not me!) Brew on! Doug Moyer Salem, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:42:01 -0500 From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com> Subject: colour of malts AJ took the time to reply: "I think you have answered your own question. The "color" of a malt is the color of a laboratory mash made with it. The little color cards ... should, therefore, be applicable to test worts." And AJ is right that I did kind of answer my own question. I think the question I forwarded to the hbd is still somewhat valid in that it would be nice to identify specialty grains by sight. The grain itself gives so little hint of what it is. So I will look up the standard test method, have a go at translating it into Spanish for our friend in Buenos Aires, and try not to confuse things further. A similar question was indeed on my mind. Before making a recent batch I was trying to decide whether to add a bit of biscuit, Munich, aromatic, melanoidin or Cara-pils to get the flavour I wanted. I crushed a small sample of each, sniffed it, tasted it, chewed it, and so on, but nothing really helps give an impression of how it will taste in the finished beer. Maybe that's the lesson homebrewing teaches - results take months, progress takes years. Sean Richens srichens at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:10:45 -0700 From: "The Holders" <zymie at charter.net> Subject: Re: Wonderful World of Zymico Ed Jones asks for comments on Zymico products. While my opinion of the products is biased by the fact that I have designed, tested, and manufacture the products, here's my $.02. I've set out to design rugged, affordable, quality homebrew products that meet my own personal standards. I don't think that any of my products can be beat for the price. I've chosen to make stainless steel my material of choice, although there are bronze/brass versions for the thrifty folk. (Sorry, no plastic) Don't be too hard on your local homebrew store, as they probably have not seen any Weld-B-Gone(TM), Bazooka Screen(TM) or Kewler Kitz(TM) products, yet. Maybe they don't carry weldless kits because they don't like the look of the ones they've seen so far. Maybe they would rather give you the opportunity to make 3-4 trips to the hardware store, and who ever complains about going there? The Kewler Thermothingy(TM) is a brand new item, so it'll be quite rare if you do get some third party feedback, but I assure you that it would not be available if it didn't meet my standards. You will never see the words "DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN" on any of my products. Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com "Overtightening, its the American way." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:34:11 -0400 (EDT) From: root <root at brew.hbd.org> Subject: Changing over... Folks, We'll soon be moving the HBD over to its new servers. If you are a webmaster whose site is on the HBD server, please send webmaster at hbd.org an e-mail if you update your site from now until we notify you of completion of the change. For users of the HBD and The Brewery, there will be a couple of brief outages as (1) the servers are merged and (b) the servers are put on their new racks. Please bear with us - these changes are being made to improve the reliability of the HBD site in general. We are also on the crux of a level of equipment failures I had not anticipated! Our system monitor failed last night, taking the HBD server (oddly) down with it! We are now running using the monitor from my children's computer - much to their disappointment and against their protests - until we can secure a replacement. Your continued donations will help us to both afford the ISP services/requirements of the HBD as well as replace failing equipment. Another piece of equipment added recently to the junk pile is our DAT drive used to back up the site. A suitable drive is several thousand dollars (the HBD is now on a 60GB hard drive...). We need to purchase a replacement to avoid a recurrence of the Fall of '99; however, with the recent server purchases, we're nearing the limit of spending we can afford without jeopardizing the internet connection. As much as I hate to ask, please consider dropping a few buck in the mail or in PayPal to the HBD Server Fund via mail, checks payable to Pat Babcock can be sent to: HBD Server Fund PO Box 871309 Canton Township, MI 48187-6309 via paypal, payments can be sent to serverfund at hbd.org. Finally, if anyone has decent discounts for either a DAT or a monitor, we'd certainly appreciate your assistance! Cheers! The HBD Janitorial Staff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:03:52 EDT From: RBoland at aol.com Subject: Re: End of Boiling Wort pH We've found that wort pH is a critical part of the style for Belgian Wit. A low pH achieved by lactic acid addition gives a crispness that balances the malt/wheat sweetness and yields a very refreshing taste. I imagine the same is true for Berliner Weiss. I also like a bit of sharpness in a stout, so a lowered pH might be helpful here also. On another subject, has anyone put the new BJCP style guidelines in Palm format? Bob Boland St. Louis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:43:30 -0400 From: "Tom Byrnes" <kmstfb2 at exis.net> Subject: Mini Kegs I am considering supplementing bottling with a mini keg system using the Philtap. Experienced users please provide your feedback (positive & negative). Thanks Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:58:13 -0600 From: "Songbird Tulip" <richarddulany at hotmail.com> Subject: de-fizz beer Problem: Over-carbonated beer I kegged a 5 gal. batch of Stout and force-carbonated it. Due to events beyond my control, I had to take the keg back out of the frigde and keep it in the basement for 2 weeks. When I chilled it back down, I noticed that the pressure relief valve had failed and let all the pressure out of the keg. I force-carbonated it again and over-carbonated it. It's like warm Pepsi now in terms of fizz. Is there any way to remove some of the dissolved CO2 from this beer? I've bled off the gas repeatedly before drawing a pint and turned my regulator down to 2-3 psi, but the beer still has an enormous amount of dissolved gas in it. It's disgusting when it warms up--just like Pepsi. Songbird Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Re: Steeping Specialty Grains & Drying Carboys Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> writes... > Hmmmm...Papazian says in The Home Brewer's Companion (page 31): <snip> > ...and again in The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (page 55): <snip> > Dave Miller mentions something similar in his book, The complete handbook of > Home Brewing (page 100): <snip> Yes, I have those books, too. And used to believe that the boiling of the grain alone was the source of tannins in beers made by boiling the specialty grains. And then I was exposed to decocting where 2/3 of the grain from the thickest part of your mash are, well, boiled! Kind of shoots Papazian and Miller all full o' holes, doesn't it? I mean, none of those beers are overly astringent. But fear not, lads! There is a solution. The pH in a tub o' grains from an active mash will be very low. Say, 5.4 to 5.6. In a typical steep, the bag of grains is dangled in a pot o' water with a pH of, barring contaminants and doping, 7.0 - there usually just isn't enough grain to significantly reduce the pH of the water in a typical specialty grain steep. Also, as you sparge in all-grain brewing, you monitor the pH to determine when to stop. Why? Because as the acidic wort leaves the grains, the pH of the grainbed and the spargate approach that of the hot liquor. In most brewing tomes, we are admonished not to oversparge lest we release evil tannins from the grain as well. Wait! How can this be if we are not boiling the grains? The pH is increasing, that's how. Where did I learn these gobbets, you ask? Why, right here in the HBD! And if I could remember who specifically stepped me into the light of that particular mystery, I'd rat him out, too :-) I'm not trying to knock Papazian, Miller, or you. It's simply that I believe that the references you cite provide the warning without fully understanding the mechanism. The danger of extraction may increase with temperature; however, the mechanism of extraction is not solely the boiling, as I believe is evidenced by the fact of decoction. As for the quality of reference, recall that CP espouses the practice of adding 2T gypsum to your mash without any understanding of the base water. I'm sure there a holes in Mr. Miller's shorts, too. Keep in mind that these books were written by fellow hobbiests (at leastat the time of their writing...) with references not much better than you have access to. They are both excellent for their purpose, but don't expect them to be encyclopaedic in their accuracy. Besides, a "harsh, spoiled pickle zing" suggests something other than astringency. Astringency is the feeling of a drying of the mouth, like as you get with strong tea. A "pickle zing" could be many things - like an acetic acid-producing bacteria, having fermented in an old pickle crock or having used old extract. (As an aside, many acidulate their hot liquor so that they can sparge to their hearts' content without worry of tannin extraction. Another indication of the mysterious connection between pH and tannin extraction...) - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
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