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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: CO2 cylinders ("John Zeller")
  DC/Roberts ("A. J.")
  Mini Keg Bungs (Dan Listermann)
  RE: Starter Grenades ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  failed hydro test ("Joseph Marsh")
  Re: CO2 cylinders (Demonick)
  Re: Starter Grenades (RBoland)
  Re: Secondary for ale (Mike Mckinney)
  Starting A Canadian Home Brewers Club; (angela patterson)
  Fermentation And Cellar Temp Blues, Part II (Todd Bissell)


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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:23:08 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 cylinders

Jason & Art,

>From my experience with scuba diving compressed air cylinders, I believe 
that if a tank fails a hydro test, the tester is required by law to 
permanently disable the tank.  A hydro test measures the ability of a 
cylinder to expand when pressurized and then return to very near its 
original size when the pressure is relieved. A pressure vessel like a CO2 
cylinder will eventually fail the test as the metal gradually loses its 
elastic properties due to metal fatigue after a certain number of expansion 
and contraction cycles.  The cylinders are also visually inspected 
internally and externally for any sign of corrosion or stress cracks.  
Sometimes a cylinder will fail the visual inpection due to a dent or ding 
even though it can still pass the hydro test.  I doubt that the compressed 
gas dealer would trade the tank if the cylinder did not have a current hydro 
test certification stamp.


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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:19:19 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: DC/Roberts

For DC beer info start with http://www.webtrek.com/~dcbeer which will in
turn refer you to other links (but the DC Beer Guide seems to be crook
at the moment).


With Roberts you take in your cylinder and they replace it with another
which has been prefilled. IF they notice that the one you are returning
is out of hydro they charge $12 (??) for the test. They seem to assume
the risk that the bottle might not pass. So provided that your bottle is
not marked in some way to show that it has failed you can probably get a
new one simply by taking it to Roberts and you might even get it at no
cost over that of the gas. I leave the ethical question as to whether
you want to call their attention to the fact that it is out of hydro or
not up to you.

A.J.



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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:14:27 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mini Keg Bungs

<Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:12:29 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Mini Kegs


Maybe your tap OD and bung ID are not a perfect match.  It might be best to
use either matched Phil tap & bungs or Fass-Frisch tap & bungs, but do not
mix them.  They should work together, but who knows.>

The "Phil's Relieph Bung" is a Fass-Frisch bung modified with a crude but
very effective pressure relief valve.  To my knowlege all bungs and taps
should be interchangeable.

Dan Listermann    Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com 
Participate in the anti-telemarketing forum.  It is my new hobby!


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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:53:07 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: Starter Grenades

Jeff -

Take the rings off of your jars after the lids pop down.  It is generally
easy to remove them then, you don't need them to keep the lids on, and if
you get an infection, it will just push the lid off instead of exploding.
Sorta like a pile of gunpowder will not explode when lit, but enclose it in
a container and bang!

Reif



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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:12:36 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: failed hydro test

Please don't try to pass the problem on to a Welding gas company or anyone 
else.  If your tank Failed a hydro it needs to be destroyed. In my opinion 
passing it on to someone else is criminal.

Most likely nothing will happen, but the only reason a pressure tank ever 
fails is from over pressure. The walls get streached and weakened. If you 
pass it on you're passing on a bomb. Literally.


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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:01:32 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 cylinders

>Jason Gorman wrote:
>I have an old CO2 cylinder that failed the hydro test.

From: "McGregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor at osd.mil>
> ... Typically you take an empty 5, 10, 20 lb. tank to
>the gas supply shop and exchange it for a full one, then pay for the gas
>($10-20).  If your tank doesn't have any large noticeable markings to
>indicate that it failed, you should be ok.  ...

By law, I believe, a failed tank is supposed to be indelibly stamped
in some way.

When you think about it, how exactly does a cylinder fail the 
hydrostatic pressure test?  Seems to me that there is only one way
to fail the test, and at that point the tank is "indelibly marked".
Could it have failed the visual inspection?  (Rust on the inside).

Domenick 
Seattle, WA






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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:22:40 EDT
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: Re: Starter Grenades

Jeff had exploding starter solutions after using the boiling water method of 
canning.  I've read some posts in this forum stating 'no problem' with this 
method.  I've also been doing some research on the matter because I hate the 
time and trouble involved in making starters.  USDA recommends pressure 
canning for low acid foods.  10 to 15 psig achieves 249 to 250 F.   See 
http://www.foodsafety.ufl.edu/consumer/he/he201.htm.  I've measured a few 
wort pH's recently and found them to be above the 4.6 threshold, so pressure 
canning is the way to go.  The higher temperature will kill the botulism 
bacteria which are present on just about everything.  It's a few more bucks 
for the pressure equipment, but it will avoid bacterial activity and 
explosions.  Neither you nor your starter will go boom.

There was also a recent post flaming St. Louis beers.  I may not prefer the 
light flavor of the beers brewed by the big guy, but I'd think I had reached 
the pinnacle of homebrewing expertise if I could brew them.  A homebrewer who 
can make a good American Light Lager is a good brewer indeed!  Try judging 
this category at a competition and you'll also hone your judging skills.  You 
can also get some fine craft beers in STL micros now.  Or, you can come to 
town on a first Thursday to taste the St. Louis Brews' homebrew.

Bob Boland
St. Louis, MO.


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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:25:12 -0500
From: Mike Mckinney <mikemck at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Secondary for ale 

John Clark writes:
>I do not know why but I have been using a secondary on
>all of my ales. I started doing this last year and it
>has worked out well for me. I get less yeast in my
>bottles but the same good carbonation. I think the ale
>taste just as good if not better than bottling from
>the primary. It takes an extra few days but I have
>noticed nothing but good things with my final product.
>
>Can anyone give me a good reason why I should do this?
> I am talking regular ales. Some with honey some with
>fruit concentrate some are just light ales. Are there
>any good advantages or am I just wasting my time?

It looks like you have pretty much answered your own question. Only thing
I would add is that I think it's good to rack of off the trub and dorment
yeast found in the primary unless you plan on bottling after only a week
or so.
Of course, I'm still a newbie at this, so others may have a different view...

- --
mikemck at austin.rr.com




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Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:35:40 -0300
From: daniel.angela at ns.sympatico.ca (angela patterson)
Subject: Starting A Canadian Home Brewers Club;

Hello All;

We have recently started a Canadian HomeBrewers Club with the express
purpose of helping people in the different regions of Canada get some
helpful information about their own area's. We are also hoping that the
group will be able to spawn a few taste offs not to mention recipe and
method information exchange.

Anyone interested in Canadabrew can subscribe to our Egroup by sending an
email with your first or screen name and the Area of Canada you live in too.

canadabrew-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

Thank You.

Daniel
N.S.



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Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:19:05 GMT
From: Todd Bissell <bis9170 at home.com>
Subject: Fermentation And Cellar Temp Blues, Part II

To refresh the minds of any readers that may have been sampling their 
wares a few too many times lately, I was the the newbie brewer who was 
agonizing over my primary fermentation temperatures in the closet of my 
small one bedroom apartment (routinely between 72 and 76 degrees). After 
posting, I received a boat load (literally!) of advice from at least 
10 or 15 list members, who gave me some great ideas and advice, but all 
repeated the same refrain of "don't toss your batch...!!" To all who 
spent their time to write me, thanks....!!!

So how did my Mild Ale turn out, after a long lag time and consistently 
high fermentation temp's...? Actually, not nearly as bad as I thought, to 
be honest. A touch sweet, more of a subdued Amber than a Mild, if you 
want to get down to the nitty-gritty, but I think that's more due to 
the cheapo canned extract only recipe I used than anything else. 
I've tasted it at both the 1 week and 2 week aging periods (a Friday 
night ritual in the making, apparently!), and while it could probably use 
another week or two, overall, I'd say my first batch was a positive 
learning experience. 

For my second and third batches (a Scotch and a Best Bitter, hey, when 
I get into a hobby, I go diving in head first!), I ended up going to 
Walmart and buying two of their cheapest Rubbermaid plastic garbage cans 
($6.00 each, so you can imagine we're not talking about any great 
investment here!), and cut them in half, so that the bottom half was just 
the right 
size to fit my plastic 6-gal fermenter. With enough room on the sides to 
pour in cold tap water, and a few frozen "blu packs" that I change out 
daily, I've gone from a "marginal" 74 degree ferment to more satisfactory 
high 60's. I'm still tweaking the setup, including adding the classic 
"wicking wet towel" approach, and maybe putting a small fan into the mix, 
but overall, feeling much more comfortable with what needs to happen now. 
I'm shooting for a consistent 65 degrees, but living in San Diego (i.e. A 
desert next to the ocean!), I'll take what I can get...! Still using 
extremely temperature tolerant yeast's, but maybe once I get my setup 
working the way I want it to, I can shoot for my first real challenge: a 
killer porter...! (Gotta dream big, eh...?)

Cheers!

T.S.Bissell   





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