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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Nitroing (Blink)
  Air lock in RIMS (2brewers4u)
  Re: Air lock in RIMS ("J. Doug Brown")
  Drill speed ("Steven Parfitt")
  Air lock in RIMS ("Steven Parfitt")
   ("plotek")
  RE: Drill Speed (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Cloudy fermentation (Mike.Szwaya)
  Lambic digest / Alaxander Rodenbach / Help ("Steven Parfitt")
  Re: All Grain Questions, Clubs (Spencer W Thomas)
  CELSIUS AND FAHRENHEIT ("George Krafcisin")
  Thanx ! ("Axle Maker")
  calculating S.G. in split batch ("Foster Jason")
  Re: Munich Dunkel (LJ Vitt)


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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:50 +0100 (BST)
From: beermonster at brewer.org (Blink)
Subject: Nitroing

Nitroing Beer

If you want your beer to drop out like guinness or 'nitrokeg beers' 
you could do with a 70/30 nitrogen/CO2 mixed gas. This is forced 
into the keg at about 35psi.with no CO2 preconditioning.  The beer is 
dispensed through 5/16 or 3/8 beer line for the majority of its 
travel, but the last few feet should be through (depends on the length of 
run/height from keg to tap) 3/16 od beer line into a  tap with 
sparkler (disk with tiny holes) in the nozzle. 
The beer needs chilling either as a whole keg or through a flash chiller
on the way to the tap.

Cheers

Graham
Head Brewer and Kegwasher, Blinks Brewery, Derbyshire, England.


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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:50:30 -0500
From: 2brewers4u at home.com
Subject: Air lock in RIMS

Here is a test.  Use water only, recirculate normally.  Take your finger a
partially clog the pick up line in the tun, until you get full suction. Keep it
there with pump on high.  You will probably start to see air bubbles after a few
minutes.  You are trying to simulate a "stuck" grain bed.  Most likely the pump
is pulling so hard, air is getting into the lines.  Happened to me.  Reverse the
flow of the water and create pressure in the opposite direction.  See if there
are leaks.  I suspect in the Q.D.s, or a cut in a hose where the clamps are.
Good luck.

2brewers4u



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:04:29 -0400
From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown at citynet.net>
Subject: Re: Air lock in RIMS

Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:
> 
> HOMEBREW Digest #3620                        Mon 30 April 2001
  Hi David,
  I'll take a SWAG.  I would make sure you have hose clamps on all your
hoses as warm vinyl tends to get soft an could possibly allow air to
leak in at a fitting, especially if the mash is restricting the flow of
the wort.  Another possiblitiy, do you stir your grains after you add
them to the water, or just dump and pump?  If you stir them manually
prior to starting the pump you would likely release any trapped air
bubbles in the mash.   These trapped air bubbles could be pulled down if
you flow rate was high enough.  My guess is the air is coming from a
leaking hose, or fitting though.

  My 34 cents
  Doug Brown
- -- 
		     J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
		  Software Engineer  at  ProLogic, Inc.
mailto:dougbrown at citynet.net              mailto:dbrown at prologic-inc.com
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug       http://www.prologic-inc.com


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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:24:22 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Drill speed

Rick Lassabe ponders mill speed:
>With the re-birth thread about which grain mill is best, I started
>wondering, Hmmmm??? Just how does one go about determining how many rpm
>the drill is turning while crushing grain? Is there some way to attach >a 
>tachometer? Perhaps place a white mark on the chuck then use a timing
>light with built in tack. If there is a timing light with tachometer?
 ..... Snip
>Rick Lassabe
>Bayrat's "Bayou Degradable Brewery"------------------------------

Since I don't use a drill, this is supposition based on watching others. I 
suspect they don't measure it. They just guestimate it. If the drill will do 
600rpm unloaded, it will do less when loaded. Listen to the sound it makes 
and adjust accordingly.

On the other hand, if you use an electric motor with shieves, it is easy. 
You use the ratio of the shieves and divide it into the motor rated rpm. 
Universal motors (AC/DC) will load down somewhat. I don't think synchronous 
AC motors do to much extent.

You could mark the chuck and usea a tach, but you have to be carefull not to 
set the tach on an integral multiple of the speed and think you are correct.

Steven



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:33:01 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Air lock in RIMS

David N Boice ponders a problem in circulation with his RIMS,

>Well I've been racking my brain to no avail, but maybe someone else can
>figure it out. My brew setup is a RIMS built around a converted keg.
 ...snip
>The reason I describe all of this in detail is I can't understand why
>I'm getting air in-line, sometimes to the extent that it air locks and
>stops the flow altogether!
 ....snip
>It seems to me to have to be some kind of a stuck sparge type of
>problem because straight water worked fine, but we really did play with
>the flow rate a lot with no success. It's not a constant phenomena
>either, it might recirculate fine for 30-40 minutes, then the bubbles
>start, then back to OK.

Dave,

I suspect your problem is actually air getting into a feed line from the 
tank to the pump.

I saw this while putting my system together. If I had ANY leaks, it would 
pull air in and the pump would only push a trickle. And inconsistently at 
that.

If you had a stuck sparge, you would be cavitating the pump with fluid in 
the line.

The addition of grain increases the resistance to flow, and allows more air 
to be pulled in through the leak (path of least resistancce).

Double check all your fittings and the clamps on the braided vinyl tubing. 
Make sure the clamps are not allowing air in.

Steven


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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:13:17 +1000
From: "plotek" <plotek at optushome.com.au>
Subject: 

Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 05:47:34 +1000
> From: plotek <plotek at optushome.com.au>
> To: janitor@hbd.org
> Subject: August Pasteur
>
> Hi HBD'rs
>
> Of course Pasteur believed the reactions
> that made beer could only be achieved with
> cells like yeast. A vitalogist in Pearl Jams best
> vocabulary.
>
> We have known for over a hundred years
> that is not the case, only enzymes were
> required.
>
> Im not quite sure what such beer would
> taste like (too neutral an enzyme!!!).  But
> one wonders how far biotechnology is ahead
> of us simple brewers and oenologists.
>
> I have been keeping a keen eye on
> some biotechnology and see the sales of
> enzymes and their applications increase.
> Ive got no problem with this, enzyme technology
> is about as "natural" as you can get (bait,
> bait and bait)
>
> It has been said that homebrewers will
> always produce beers that are comparable
> and, many times better than commercial
> varieties. Home winemakers appear to be
> at a distinct disadvantage to their pofessional
> cousins
>
> I have an inkling that this "homebrew dominance"
> may change vary rapidly.
>
> But i suppose for the present i am
> estatic with my little hord.
>
>
>
> Muddie
>
>
> (Im not standing for any office, but
> I would like a "More Beer for George
> W" campaign". Would have had
> Y'all forces protecting the Giant
> Panda)
>
>
>

- --
 -
See ya!






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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:41:37 -0500
From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Drill Speed

>From: Rick Lassabe <bayrat at worldnet.att.net>
>
>Just how does one go about determining how many rpm
>the drill is turning while crushing grain? 

Lots of ways:

  * You could glue a disk to the shaft with a hole near the perimeter, then
use an optical sensor feeding a counter.

  * You could use a magnet instead of a hole and have a sensor near the
passing magnet feeding a counter.

  * For a quick and dirty method try a Sharpie or other inked pen tie
wrapped so that it rotates, then have this make a mark each revolution onto
a piece of paper that you have moving at a known speed, then count the
marks.

  * It should be fairly easy to setup your computer to count pulses from the
sensors mentioned.  If you have a basic stamp, it can be setup to count
pulses with just a few lines of code.

  * The weirdest of all may be to feed the pulses to an audio reel to reel
tape recorder (what's that?? well you gen-exer's are too  young, but it was
what we all used before cassette recorders), then afterwards you monitor the
tape by holding the reels and slowly moving the tape past the heads and
count the pulses and measure the length of tape.  If you know the known
recording speed, then counting the pulses occurring on a certain length of
tape will allow you to calculate the speed.

Ron La Borde

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:25:43 -0700
From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us
Subject: Cloudy fermentation


Hi everyone,
I have a question on a cloudy fermentation that I hope I can get some help
on.  A couple weekends ago I brewed a 10 gal. batch of all grain IPA with
the following grain bill:

14.5# fully modified pilsner (the Moravian from St. Pats)
2# Ger. Munich
2# Ger. wheat
2# 80L crystal
2# 20L crystal

Mashed at 149-151F with a HERMS-type system at 1.4 qt/lb.  Mashout at 167F.
Sparged with 176F water.  Boiled 75 min with Galena pellets for bittering
and 3 additions of whole Cascade for aroma/flavor.  Cooled to 66F.  o.g. was
1.052.  I didn't boil down enough as I had a gallon or so extra and no room
in the 5 gal glass carboys

I pitched a slurry of Wyeast London ESB (#1968) that I'd saved from a
previous batch of pale ale which was collected on March 4th.  It was stored
in a 250 ml amber jar in my brewing fridge until a week before brewing.  At
the time I collected it, I neglected to rinse it with pre-boiled water at
all.  I just took the bottom dregs of the fermenter.

I took the yeast out and stirred it up.  It looked fine and smelled like
clean yeast should so I pitched it into a gallon jug with a couple quarts of
pressure-canned wort and oxygenated.  The yeast woke up in about a day and
bubbled away.  It looked a little cloudy but I had thought at the time that
everything was just in suspension.

By the morning of brewing, the activity in the starter had just about
stopped.  I added another quart of wort and oxygenated again.  By the time
the brewing was done, it was active again.  I pitched and set the carboys in
my basement where they've been fermenting at 64-66 for the past 10 days.

As of Saturday, the gravity was at 1.020.  There's still occasional airlock
activity so I anticipate it finishing out this week.  However, it's quite
possibly the cloudiest/murkiest beer I've ever seen, especially with
fermentation nearly completed.  Even with a stout and a strong flashlight,
you can see fermentation activity maybe a half inch through the carboy.
Paler beers even more so.  But with this one...it almost looks like someone
added milk to it.

I know that the #1968 is notorious for dropping out hard, almost to the
point where occasional rousing is needed to keep it active.  And as of
Saturday, it seems to taste and smell fine.  Even my wife, who has more
picky taste and olfactory senses than I do, can't detect anything 'off'.

So my questions are this: Is this a case of poor yeast management when I
collected from the first batch?  Could the cold break and other fermentation
byproducts that settled out that I never washed out cause this?  What about
a potential infection?  Is anyone aware of a clouding bacteria that produces
no off flavors/aromas or is it just a matter of time until they manifest
themselves?

Lastly, assuming it's not an infection, can I do anything to fix it?

Thanks for reading the long post.  I appreciate any feedback or comments on
HBD or private.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Szwaya
Portland, OR
Email: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:41:50 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Lambic digest / Alaxander Rodenbach / Help

I tried to join the Lambic Digest and got the following reply.

"
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
       lambic-request@ longs.lance.colostate.edu
"

Does anyone know of a new address to join, has it gone Bellly-Up?


Rosenbach -

I recently got a couple of bottles of Alaxander Rodenbach, and in searching 
the archives found references in late 1999 and early 2000 that Palm had 
bought out Rodnebach and was making changes, like discontinuing Alaxander 
Rodenbach, although they are reported to be keeping Rodenbach Gran Cru.

I have tried to contact rodenbach at <www.rodnebach.be> , but get a no such 
URL message. Palm doesn't have any links to Rodenbach on their web site 
<www.palm.be>.

Does anyone know if Alaxander Rodenbach was discontinued? I really like it.

Steven



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:57:09 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: All Grain Questions, Clubs 

>>>>> "Doug" == Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> writes:

    Doug> As for extracting bitterness, I wonder if the acidity of
    Doug> wort has anything to due with bitterness extraction.

One time, I tried boiling hops in plain water, because I wanted to
make a hopped mead but did not want to boil the honey.  

Due, presumably to the higher pH of the water than that of wort, I
also extracted lots of green "stuff," and the resulting liquid was
very "grassy" tasting.

I don't recommend this approach, although it might work if you first
acidify the water.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:25:17 -0500
From: "George Krafcisin" <gkrafcisin at mindspring.com>
Subject: CELSIUS AND FAHRENHEIT

Alan in PEI writes (in re the Fahrenheit temperature scale):

 .
 "- thin ice on puddles, about 0 C so that must be 32 F.   Why would
anyone pick 32 as a starting point?"

As I recall from some odd reading over the years, the gentleman who invented
the thermometer (named, coincidentally, Fahrenheit), calibrated his
mercury-filled glass tube by measuring the lowest point it reached in the
winter, and the highest point it reached in the summer.  Marking these a
"zero" and "100" made sense.  Unfortunately, that made the freezing ( or
melting, if you're an optimist) point of water come out at +32, boiling (or
condensing) point at +212.

Sort of like Faraday having to guess whether the electrons came from the
negative of positive pole of the battery.  He guessed positive.  Later, we
found out they went the other way, so are positively negative.

Now back to a beer thread?

George Krafcisin




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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:33:02 -0400
From: "Axle Maker" <axlemaker at mindspring.com>
Subject: Thanx !

A big thank you to all that gave me some help with my problem's last week !

One question has remained un-answered and would really love anyone's help,
so i'm asking the collective.
What is the proper way to determine what the Final Gravity should be
regardless of style ?

Thanx !!!  Axle...
Axle's Alewerk's



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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:18:28 
From: "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com>
Subject: calculating S.G. in split batch

A question for the knowledgable ones.

I am about to try my first barley wine. As a first attempt, I thought I 
would try to to a smaller (2.5gallon) batch. I have read that a useful trick 
is once the desired volume is reached for the barley wine, to continue 
sparging for another, lower gravity beer. This sounds cool to me. But here 
is my question. I don't know how to predict the specific gravity of the 
second wort. How much of the fermentables will be taken up by the first 2.5 
gallons? For your information, here is my grain bill, at least for now:

6 kg 2-row
200 g of crystal
100 g of chocolate
50 g of cara-pils

A quick calculation tells me the original gravity of the barley wine (2.5 
gallons) should be about 1.125 or so. But what would the remaining gravity 
be? Am I right in thinking it would be 1.030 or so? Or is this wrong?

My concern isn't with the accurate numbers, I am just looking for a ball 
park figure.

Can anyone help me?

Thank you.

Jason Foster
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Munich Dunkel


There are some good things comingl out of the Dunkel discussion.

My last Dunkel was made about 3 years ago.  I did not have 100% munich malt.
But I did not have any roasted malts.  I had a high percentage munch,
some melanoidin malt, some cara-munich and I think aromatic.  I did get dark
brown color.  However, I did a triple decoction, with boil times of 1/2 hour
per decoction.  This beer did advance to second round of nationals in 1999.

I'm sorry, I don't have the name of the poster -- I deleted that HBD.
He described a time he had used 100% munich and infusion mash and a final
decoction.  The color was too light.

I think some color difference is from the caramunich and melanoidin, and some
is from the decoctions.

I is not my understanding that you must stay away from roasted malts.
But the original poster asked about using Munich with a little roasted barley,
and said he wanted to make an "authentic" munich dunkel, and was willing to do 
a double decoction.  There are probably many ideas what would be authentic.
I believe black malt would be more authentic than roasted barley.
If you can do it without any roasted malt, I think that would be even closer.

I'm going to have to try 100% munich with the long decoctions and see what I
get.  However, it would be soon.

Leo Vitt



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